Trade Rumor

[Bennybosox]

The buzz on South Florida sports talk radio this morning is a proposed trade rumor involving Hanley Ramirez. The rumor has the Marlins netting four highly rated prospects from the Giants for Ramirez, and SF getting the superstar the so desperately desire since the departure of Barry Bonds. The prospects involved are:

P- Madison Bumgarner
C-Buster Posey
SS- Emmanuel Burris
1b- Angel Vilonla

I've seen the reports on each of these prospects from BA, and it looks like quite a haul for the Marlins, even though it would require moving the"face of the franchise"

Another rumor has and even up swap involving these two teams: Dan Uggla for Jonathan Sanchez.

[ol' aches and pains]

The buzz on South Florida sports talk radio this morning is a proposed trade rumor involving Hanley Ramirez. The rumor has the Marlins netting four highly rated prospects from the Giants for Ramirez, and SF getting the superstar the so desperately desire since the departure of Barry Bonds. The prospects involved are:

P- Madison Bumgarner
C-Buster Posey
SS- Emmanuel Burris
1b- Angel Vilonla

I've seen the reports on each of these prospects from BA, and it looks like quite a haul for the Marlins, even though it would require moving the"face of the franchise"

Another rumor has and even up swap involving these two teams: Dan Uggla for Jonathan Sanchez.


The Giants desperately need a big bat, last I heard they were hitting Benjie Molina cleanup, for Goddsakes. If they had any offense at all, they would be a factor in the West Division race.

[Bennybosox]

The Giants desperately need a big bat, last I heard they were hitting Benjie Molina cleanup, for Goddsakes. If they had any offense at all, they would be a factor in the West Division race.

Yeah, it's really a shame that they have such outstanding young & vetran pitching and have absolutely no offense. Aaron Rowand is a nice player, and Pablo Sandoval looks like he has potential, but they really need a big time bat.

Hanley Ramirez is definately a big time bat, but if they're unable to swing that deal, a deal for Uggla is a decent back up plan. He can certainly provide some pop and get them the run production they so desperatley need.

And as far as the Marlins are concerned, its not like they haven't done this type of thing before (see: Beckett & Lowell for Hanley), but its a risky move considering attendance is way down (again) and it'd be a shame to move into their fancy new ballpark (2011 I think) without a proven superstar. Although, maybe by then Maybin will start to realize his potential, and budding stars like Logan Morrison and Michael Stanton will be on the Major League roster

[Rich the Giants fan]

The buzz on South Florida sports talk radio this morning is a proposed trade rumor involving Hanley Ramirez. The rumor has the Marlins netting four highly rated prospects from the Giants for Ramirez, and SF getting the superstar the so desperately desire since the departure of Barry Bonds. The prospects involved are:

P- Madison Bumgarner
C-Buster Posey
SS- Emmanuel Burris
1b- Angel Vilonla

I've seen the reports on each of these prospects from BA, and it looks like quite a haul for the Marlins, even though it would require moving the"face of the franchise"

Another rumor has and even up swap involving these two teams: Dan Uggla for Jonathan Sanchez.

That's the most outrageous rumor I've heard in a long while. Sounds like some imaginative dreaming from some bored Marlin fans.

Bumgarner and Posey are the Giants top two prospects, while Villalona is #4. Never going to happen.

[yamsi12]

that trade would never happen. Giants would be giving up to much.

[Bennybosox]

That's the most outrageous rumor I've heard in a long while. Sounds like some imaginative dreaming from some bored Marlin fans.

Bumgarner and Posey are the Giants top two prospects, while Villalona is #4. Never going to happen.

Hey, I'm just reporting on what I heard on sports talk radio in South Florida this morning. 90% of these[I]rumors[I] are just that, and never happen.

That said, sometimes as fans we tend to overvalue our farm systems and fall in love with our prospects. The Giants have a deep and talent rich minor league system and even losing those top guys they would still have a top 10 ranking.

Hanley Ramirez is one of the top young superstars in the game. As a Giants fan what would you give up to get him? Keep in mind he's still very young and signed long term at well below market value.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Hey, I'm just reporting on what I heard on sports talk radio in South Florida this morning. 90% of these[I]rumors[I] are just that, and never happen.

That said, sometimes as fans we tend to overvalue our farm systems and fall in love with our prospects. The Giants have a deep and talent rich minor league system and even losing those top guys they would still have a top 10 ranking.

Hanley Ramirez is one of the top young superstars in the game. As a Giants fan what would you give up to get him? Keep in mind he's still very young and signed long term at well below market value.

Don't get me wrong, I can see the Marlins starting the discussion by saying they need a shortstop (Burriss), a top pitching prospect (Bumgarner) and another top prospect (Posey and/or Villalona, take your pick), but that doesn't mean there is going to be much of a response from the Giants. I just think this is the byproduct of radio jocks looking for ratings.

For the Giants to trade three of those four in return for just one player would be counter productive to what they are trying to do. Trading three of the top four prospects in the organization, especially those three, would be beyond foolish, even for a player like Ramirez, and while they do have a lot of talent in the minors, dealing those three would certainly drop them into the bottom half of the league in overall talent. I have done extensive research on the Giants minor league prospects, and don't feel I am overrating those three in the least bit.

Of course as a fan I would be interested in seeing Ramirez acquired (and then promptly moved to centerfield), but not at such an extreme cost. A deal centered around Matt Cain and two, or even three other prospects would be acceptable. But if you include Cain, those three are off-limits. I would never include both Bumgarner and Posey in the same deal, unless they got Ramirez and then quite a bit more and would be hesitant to deal them even separately, no matter who they acquired.

[Bennybosox]

[QUOTE=Rich the Giants fan;1530991]Don't get me wrong, I can see the Marlins starting the discussion by saying they need a shortstop (Burriss), a top pitching prospect (Bumgarner) and another top prospect (Posey and/or Villalona, take your pick), but that doesn't mean there is going to be much of a response from the Giants. I just think this is the byproduct of radio jocks looking for ratings.

For the Giants to trade three of those four in return for just one player would be counter productive to what they are trying to do. Trading three of the top four prospects in the organization, especially those three, would be beyond foolish, even for a player like Ramirez, and while they do have a lot of talent in the minors, dealing those three would certainly drop them into the bottom half of the league in overall talent. I have done extensive research on the Giants minor league prospects, and don't feel I am overrating those three in the least bit. [Quote]

I completely understand your thinking on the matter, but I think when you factor in that your getting a top-5 offensive talent in the game who is still several years away from his prime, and signed reasonably (6 years/ $72MM?) cheap for an extended period of time, not to mention the fact that the Giants really need a player of his caliber-- you're going to have to give up at least two preimum prospects, possibly a highly rated third prospect (Burris). The Giants are dealing from a position of stregth here. IMO the deal would have to be Bumgarder & Posey or a package of Villanola, Alderson & Burris. I understand Cain is talented and young, but the Marlins want players that they can control fron the beginning of their service time clock (I believe Cain is arbitration eleigible after this season). Look, it's a rumor fueled by sports talk radio-- probably never goona happen, but it sure is fun to talk about.

That said, I think that a Dan Uggla for J. Sanchez deal certainly won't get the headlines of a Hanley Ramirez deal, but is far more likely to happen. What's your opnion on that rumor?

[Rich the Giants fan]

I understand who they'd be getting and any team would love to add a player of that caliber, but what I don't think you are understanding is how good the players you've named, really are. On top of that, the Giants are way more than one player away, and there is no reason to empty out the cupboard for Ramirez alone.

Yes, the Giants are stocked well in the minors. They have a number of very good arms (Tim Alderson, Henry Sosa, Kevin Pucetas, Kelvin Marte, Jose Casilla, Wilbur Bucardo among others) and some promising hitters (Nick Noonan, Thomas Neal, Brandon Crawford, Roger Kieschnick and Conor Gillaspie are a few), but you are talking about three of the top 50 prospects in all of minor league baseball (and 3 of the Giants top 4 with Alderson being the other), plus a former top pick who is currently their starting 2B.

Bumgarner is considered by many to be the Giants top prospect, though I would rate him number 2 behind Posey. But they are pretty interchangeable and both are going to be stars. Posey is closer because he's older, but Bumgarner profiles as a front of the rotation starter and would/will be a nasty left-handed compliment to Tim Lincecum for many years.

Posey, the fifth overall pick in last year's draft, is the next Joe Mauer/Matt Wieters type catcher. He has an outstanding bat and is tremendously athletic. He's only caught since his sophomore year in college but won the college Gold Glove last year as a junior. He even led the Seminoles in saves, featuring a 90 mph+ fastball. I expect to see him in the Majors next season, though I'd like to see the Giants re-sign Molina for two years to mentor him.

Villalona, Big-V, was the youngest player in a full-season minor league last year, turning 18 only in August, but still hitting 18 home runs. Signed when he was just 16, he's very raw still and needs to refine his approach at the plate and show better plate discipline, but he's a future 30-40 home run hitter at the major league level.

Burriss, the fourth player mentioned, was a first round pick of the Giants in 2006 and is already in his second big league season. Drafted as a shortstop, he's the starter at second, where his defense is notably better, and after a slow start with the bat, he's been coming around. He'll never have much power but he's got gobs of speed and could up his SLG% by hitting more gap triples and doubles down the line. More importantly, he can get on base well.

[KHenry14]

While Ramirez is a great talent, I'd be very upset with that deal. Bumgarner and Posey are just about untouchable, and Villalona, while very raw, has a huge upside. Burris is expendable, but he's not likely to be a big part of any deal. Possibly the Giants have 4 starters in this deal that they'd be giving up for 1 starter? No thanks


Uggla for Sanchez makes sense for both teams however. Especially since Bumgarner and Alderson are in the pipeline

[Rich the Giants fan]

Uggla for Sanchez makes sense for both teams however. Especially since Bumgarner and Alderson are in the pipeline

I'll so pass on Uggla, and the Giants could do better than him for Sanchez anyway. I'm still high on Sanchez though, and would prefer not to see him traded unless it's for a much better player than Uggla.

[Bennybosox]

So the basic message here is that 2 blue chip prospects and another highly rated second tier prospect is too much for Hanley Ramirez. That's a pretty strong opnion. I think the Giants do the deal without hesitation if offered. But thats just my opnion.

[KHenry14]

So the basic message here is that 2 blue chip prospects and another highly rated second tier prospect is too much for Hanley Ramirez. That's a pretty strong opnion. I think the Giants do the deal without hesitation if offered. But thats just my opnion.

Well, one of those blue chips is a catcher, which makes him more valuable, and Bumgarner is another potential Lincecum. The question really is, how sure are the Giants that both of them will pan out? A few years ago everyone thought Edwin Jackson would be in this category, and he didn't pan out. And even in the 2007 off season the Giants almost traded Lincecum before sanity won out. The point is, you need to be really sure of your evaluation of your young talent before giving up 4 for 1. Right now, from what I've seen, I'm against such a deal.

[Bennybosox]

Just throwing this out there---for the sake of conversation/ arguement only---Lincecum for Hanley srtaight up, who hangs up first?

Now, This is considering the wealth of young pitching in the Giants system.

I'd like to hear an unbiased opnion on this one Giants fans

[CandlestickBum]

Just throwing this out there---for the sake of conversation/ arguement only---Lincecum for Hanley srtaight up, who hangs up first?

Now, This is considering the wealth of young pitching in the Giants system.

I'd like to hear an unbiased opnion on this one Giants fans

Huhn? Contradiction there buddy.

Though my fellow Giant fans do seem to be completely overlooking the great contract Hanly has. That is a huge bonus in the deal, especially if we're talking about prospects. I wouldn't mind two pitching prospects not named Bumgardner, and Burriss for him. That would be a bit too lopsided in the Giant's favor though.

That Hanly is a proven commodity and Posey is still a prospect should be factored in as well. So Posey + Sanchez for Hanly? That feels like too much to give.

Glad I'm not our GM, I'd ruin the team. :rolleyes:

[Rich the Giants fan]

So the basic message here is that 2 blue chip prospects and another highly rated second tier prospect is too much for Hanley Ramirez. That's a pretty strong opnion. I think the Giants do the deal without hesitation if offered. But thats just my opnion.

I would call it three blue chips, plus another highly rated second tier prospect, actually.

But if the Giants were in a different position, then that deal might be worthwhile (but then again, as strongly as I feel about those players, it might not ever be worth it), but the Giants are not in a position where one player is going to make a difference and for a team trying to get younger, this would be a bad long-term move.

As is though, that move would be a steal for the Marlins.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Well, one of those blue chips is a catcher, which makes him more valuable, and Bumgarner is another potential Lincecum. The question really is, how sure are the Giants that both of them will pan out? A few years ago everyone thought Edwin Jackson would be in this category, and he didn't pan out. And even in the 2007 off season the Giants almost traded Lincecum before sanity won out. The point is, you need to be really sure of your evaluation of your young talent before giving up 4 for 1. Right now, from what I've seen, I'm against such a deal.

Quietly, Edwin Jackson has become one of the better pitchers in the AL.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Huhn? Contradiction there buddy.

Though my fellow Giant fans do seem to be completely overlooking the great contract Hanly has. That is a huge bonus in the deal, especially if we're talking about prospects. I wouldn't mind two pitching prospects not named Bumgardner, and Burriss for him. That would be a bit too lopsided in the Giant's favor though.

That Hanly is a proven commodity and Posey is still a prospect should be factored in as well. So Posey + Sanchez for Hanly? That feels like too much to give.

Glad I'm not our GM, I'd ruin the team. :rolleyes:
I'd do Posey and Sanchez for Ramirez in a heartbeat, and I'd go ahead and include Burriss as well. And how about Henry Sosa? Posey, Sanchez, Burriss and Sosa sounds good to me. It's at least a good starting point. What should not be overlooked, though, is that they have a lot of second tier prospects with whom to make a deal with.

One thing to consider about Ramirez' contract, however, is that it is very backloaded. He is only making $5.5 million this year and $7 million next year, but will make $57.5 M over the final four years of the deal from '11-14.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Just throwing this out there---for the sake of conversation/ arguement only---Lincecum for Hanley srtaight up, who hangs up first?

Now, This is considering the wealth of young pitching in the Giants system.

I'd like to hear an unbiased opnion on this one Giants fans

http://www.baseballevolution.com/richard/lincecum.html

Now admittedly I am biased in Tim's favor since, as you can see by the piece I linked above, I have been on the Lincecum bandwagon for a long time. However, the only player I personally would trade Timmy for straight up would be Albert Pujols. I have long felt, strongly, that Tim will be the very best pitcher in the game (a la Santana currently) and he's already gone a good ways towards proving me right (Cy Young anyone?). That's not a commodity that you give up lightly, no disrespect towards Ramirez intended.

[yamsi12]

Just throwing this out there---for the sake of conversation/ arguement only---Lincecum for Hanley srtaight up, who hangs up first?

Now, This is considering the wealth of young pitching in the Giants system.

I'd like to hear an unbiased opnion on this one Giants fans

The giants hang up. Lincecum has had a huge impact in SF for the Giants and their fans. Especially after having Bonds and all the controversy that followed him. Timmy is a breath of fresh air and they wont move him. He literally owns the city of San Francisco, something Hanley Ramirez could never do, as good a player as he is.

[Zito75]

I'm not biting on this one.

Now I'd be willing to listen to a proposed deal that sends Matt Holliday to SF. I could see that going down by the trade deadline.

[CandlestickBum]

I'm not biting on this one.

Now I'd be willing to listen to a proposed deal that sends Matt Holliday to SF. I could see that going down by the trade deadline.

Since he was signed purely as trade material, you better be looking forward to seeing his backside.

Two weeks ago I would of laughed at you Holliday was hitting so poorly, but it seems recently he might be figuring out how to hit at sea level. We'll have a better idea by the trade deadline. Right now I'd give you Velez and a player to be named later for him.