Things Umpires Hate

[MrUmpireSir]

In no particular order, here are some things umpires hate:

Batters in the Strike Zone
You know the ones. They set up at the very front edge of the batter’s box and when they’re in their normal batting stance, their knees and elbows are actually inside the strike zone, right over the plate. If the pitcher is smart enough – and skilled enough – he will throw fastballs at those knees all night. If they find their mark, they will be called as dead-ball strikes (“Time! That’s a strike! Stay right there!”). By rule, a batter touched by a strike cannot be awarded first base:

Rule 6.08 (b): The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when he is touched by a pitched ball which he is not attempting to hit unless (1) The ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, or (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball; If the ball is in the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a strike, whether or not the batter tries to avoid the ball. If the ball is outside the strike zone when it touches the batter, it shall be called a ball if he makes no attempt to avoid being touched.

APPROVED RULING: When the batter is touched by a pitched ball which does not entitle him to first base, the ball is dead and no runner may advance.

The reason we hate these batters is because keeping a hit batter in the box is usually controversial, because, frankly, fan and coach rules knowledge is very poor. Most think a hit batter always gets first base, period. So when we make this call, everybody just thinks we're blind or making up a new rule, when we're just enforcing one they should already know.

Batters in the Back of the Box
Curve balls cross the plate belt high, and finish in the dirt at the batter’s feet. These are strikes, but umpires look awful calling them from both spectator and dugout vantage points. Ditto for batters who set up as far away from the plate as possible (4.5 feet back). The batter cannot possibly reach a pitch thrown on the outside half of the plate, but these, too, are strikes. Again, it looks as if the umpire is calling them three feet outside, but we’re not.

Balking Pitchers
First inning, and we see the pitcher double setting or setting above his head (both are balks). All we can do is call it early. On the double set, the complaint we usually get is that it is “part of his normal motion so the runners aren’t being deceived.” OK, what do we do then when he deceives a runner by setting just once? Balk him for doing what the rules require? No, sorry, we have to call it according to the book. Umpires hate calling balks because they interrupt the flow of the game, throw pitchers off and draw attention to ourselves. But what are we to do? Ignore the rules? How is that fair to all the other pitchers who have been properly instructed and are skilled enough to pitch without balking? No, we call them as we see them.

Coaches Asking Catchers about Pitches
Coaches really haven’t thought this one through very far. If we call a “Ball” and the coach shouts out “Where was that one, Johnny?” and Johnny says anything other than outside, up, low or inside - well, we all know what a thimble is, right?

Blockers and Ghosts
A blocker is a catcher who doesn’t catch. At higher levels of ball, strikes will not be called if the pitch is dropped. At lower levels, we don't have that luxury - but it's still annoying.

A ghost is a catcher who neither catches nor blocks. They will not get called strikes. Enough said.

Inappropriate Plate Meeting Comments
I am appalled at all the things I have read that you good folks say umpires have raised at the plate meeting. I can tell you, though, that coaches should watch what they say too. Making comments about the umpires skill or previous games can get you tossed right there. On exactly three occasions, I have had coaches say “And don’t worry about me, ump – I never argue anything!” In all three cases, I ended up eventually ejecting him. Honestly – just introduce yourself, exchange lineups, go over the ground rules and leave.

First Basemen Who Can’t Catch or Pull Their Foot
Routine plays being turned into bangers all night long is annoying and stressful.

Catchers Who Can’t Put Down a Tag
Calling runners safe at the plate when the throw beat them by a mile looks simply awful. But if the catcher doesn’t know how to tag a sliding runner, what are we to do? Sometimes, granted, we will make the obvious call when “everyone in the bleachers knows the runner was out”, but if we're sure there was no tag, we'll call it as we see it.

[bbb3601]

As far as I am concerned you can put parents, and coach's in this category too!

[ipitch]

Blockers and Ghosts
A blocker is a catcher who doesn’t catch. At higher levels of ball, strikes will not be called if the pitch is dropped.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it? I've seen plenty of dropped called strikes in AAA and MLB. I agree that it probably does lessen the chance of having a strike called though. But, it really shouldn't.

If there was a "Things I Hate About Umpires" thread, 'umpires not calling a strike just because the catcher dropped the pitch' would be in that thread. :)

[bbb3601]

That's a bit of an exaggeration, isn't it? I've seen plenty of dropped called strikes in AAA and MLB. I agree that it probably does lessen the chance of having a strike called though. But, it really shouldn't.

If there was a "Things I Hate About Umpires" thread, 'umpires not calling a strike just because the catcher dropped the pitch' would be in that thread. :)

Look at the amount of called strikes dropped when wakefield pitches. He gets the calls. A strike is a strike.

[wogdoggy]

In no particular order, here are some things umpires hate:

Batters in the Strike Zone
You know the ones. They set up at the very front edge of the batter’s box and when they’re in their normal batting stance, their knees and elbows are actually inside the strike zone, right over the plate. If the pitcher is smart enough – and skilled enough – he will throw fastballs at those knees all night. If they find their mark, they will be called as dead-ball strikes (“Time! That’s a strike! Stay right there!”). By rule, a batter touched by a strike cannot be awarded first base:



The reason we hate these batters is because keeping a hit batter in the box is usually controversial, because, frankly, fan and coach rules knowledge is very poor. Most think a hit batter always gets first base, period. So when we make this call, everybody just thinks we're blind or making up a new rule, when we're just enforcing one they should already know.

Batters in the Back of the Box
Curve balls cross the plate belt high, and finish in the dirt at the batter’s feet. These are strikes, but umpires look awful calling them from both spectator and dugout vantage points. Ditto for batters who set up as far away from the plate as possible (4.5 feet back). The batter cannot possibly reach a pitch thrown on the outside half of the plate, but these, too, are strikes. Again, it looks as if the umpire is calling them three feet outside, but we’re not.

Balking Pitchers
First inning, and we see the pitcher double setting or setting above his head (both are balks). All we can do is call it early. On the double set, the complaint we usually get is that it is “part of his normal motion so the runners aren’t being deceived.” OK, what do we do then when he deceives a runner by setting just once? Balk him for doing what the rules require? No, sorry, we have to call it according to the book. Umpires hate calling balks because they interrupt the flow of the game, throw pitchers off and draw attention to ourselves. But what are we to do? Ignore the rules? How is that fair to all the other pitchers who have been properly instructed and are skilled enough to pitch without balking? No, we call them as we see them.

Coaches Asking Catchers about Pitches
Coaches really haven’t thought this one through very far. If we call a “Ball” and the coach shouts out “Where was that one, Johnny?” and Johnny says anything other than outside, up, low or inside - well, we all know what a thimble is, right?

Blockers and Ghosts
A blocker is a catcher who doesn’t catch. At higher levels of ball, strikes will not be called if the pitch is dropped. At lower levels, we don't have that luxury - but it's still annoying.




A ghost is a catcher who neither catches nor blocks. They will not get called strikes. Enough said.

Inappropriate Plate Meeting Comments
I am appalled at all the things I have read that you good folks say umpires have raised at the plate meeting. I can tell you, though, that coaches should watch what they say too. Making comments about the umpires skill or previous games can get you tossed right there. On exactly three occasions, I have had coaches say “And don’t worry about me, ump – I never argue anything!” In all three cases, I ended up eventually ejecting him. Honestly – just introduce yourself, exchange lineups, go over the ground rules and leave.

First Basemen Who Can’t Catch or Pull Their Foot
Routine plays being turned into bangers all night long is annoying and stressful.

Catchers Who Can’t Put Down a Tag
Calling runners safe at the plate when the throw beat them by a mile looks simply awful. But if the catcher doesn’t know how to tag a sliding runner, what are we to do? Sometimes, granted, we will make the obvious call when “everyone in the bleachers knows the runner was out”, but if we're sure there was no tag, we'll call it as we see it.


blockers and ghosts?

a STRIKE is a STRIKE if he catches it or not,,..what kind of justification is that


thank you bb glad there are others who question that BS ............ three posts already..lol

[bluezebra]

"Coaches Asking Catchers about Pitches
Coaches really haven’t thought this one through very far. If we call a “Ball” and the coach shouts out “Where was that one, Johnny?” and Johnny says anything other than outside, up, low or inside - well, we all know what a thimble is, right?

Blockers and Ghosts
A blocker is a catcher who doesn’t catch. At higher levels of ball, strikes will not be called if the pitch is dropped. At lower levels, we don't have that luxury - but it's still annoying.

A ghost is a catcher who neither catches nor blocks. They will not get called strikes. Enough said."

So you CHEAT to prove a point? That's some things I hate.

Bob

[HYP]

Blockers and Ghosts
A blocker is a catcher who doesn’t catch. At higher levels of ball, strikes will not be called if the pitch is dropped. At lower levels, we don't have that luxury - but it's still annoying.

A ghost is a catcher who neither catches nor blocks. They will not get called strikes. Enough said.



So what you're saying is you will follow the rules unless the catcher drops the ball?

How do you call a curve ball in the dirt a strike but if the catcher drops a strike you call it a ball?

Doesn't quite sound right.

[wogdoggy]

So what you're saying is you will follow the rules unless the catcher drops the ball?

How do you call a curve ball in the dirt a strike but if the catcher drops a strike you call it a ball?

Doesn't quite sound right.



unfortuantely it seems like an ump like this is an "i'll show you ump".

mr umpire sir it sounds as if YOU ARE making the rules......sir... a strike is a strike

[MrUmpireSir]

So you CHEAT to prove a point? That's some things I hate.Bob

I have no point to prove to anyone. I don't know what level of ball you folks do, but at higher levels when the catcher fails to catch a strike and it gets called a ball, he usually says something like "That one's on me, sorry!" and there will not be a peep said about it from the dugout except "Stick those!" from F2's coach.

When I first started doing 18-20 y.o. rep ball, I called a dropped pitch a strike - once - and there were moans and groans all around. From the dugout came "Uh, Blue, we catch strikes in this league."

Strikes are catchable (knuckleballs excepted!).

But no, such an approach would not be appropriate for children's baseball, I agree.

[wogdoggy]

I have no point to prove to anyone. I don't know what level of ball you folks do, but at higher levels when the catcher fails to catch a strike and it gets called a ball, he usually says something like "That one's on me, sorry!" and there will not be a peep said about it from the dugout except "Stick those!" from F2's coach.

When I first started doing 18-20 y.o. rep ball, I called a dropped pitch a strike - once - and there were moans and groans all around. From the dugout came "Uh, Blue, we catch strikes in this league."

Strikes are catchable (knuckleballs excepted!).

But no, such an approach would not be appropriate for children's baseball, I agree.



When I first started doing 18-20 y.o. rep ball, I called a dropped pitch a strike - once - and there were moans and groans all around. From the dugout came "Uh, Blue, we catch strikes in this league."


I call BS..well at least there are no drop third strikes to have to call thats easier huh?....please..:thumbsdown:

[MrUmpireSir]

I call BS..well at least there are no drop third strikes to have to call thats easier huh?....please..:thumbsdown:

Certainly there are - when the batter swings and misses, and F2 doesn't catch it.

[AgentX]

when i first started doing 18-20 y.o. Rep ball, i called a dropped pitch a strike - once - and there were moans and groans all around. From the dugout came "uh, blue, we catch strikes in this league."

did you toss him?

[HYP]

I have no point to prove to anyone. I don't know what level of ball you folks do, but at higher levels when the catcher fails to catch a strike and it gets called a ball, he usually says something like "That one's on me, sorry!" and there will not be a peep said about it from the dugout except "Stick those!" from F2's coach.

When I first started doing 18-20 y.o. rep ball, I called a dropped pitch a strike - once - and there were moans and groans all around. From the dugout came "Uh, Blue, we catch strikes in this league."

Strikes are catchable (knuckleballs excepted!).

But no, such an approach would not be appropriate for children's baseball, I agree.

You should have warned him and if it happened again ran him. LOL

So a catcher saying that ones on me, isn't that almost the samething as saying that the umpire missed the call? A form of showing you up?

What's the difference if a coach asks his catcher where that one missed? or telling his team that it's a low zone so make adjustments?


Most people who have been around the game for a while understand all of the things that go on and are generally excepted. So an UMP can't run a coach for saying, "call it the same on both halfs of the inning" and in the same breath call a strike a ball because the catcher drops it.

[songtitle]

So an UMP can't run a coach for saying, "call it the same on both halfs of the inning"

You are questioning the umpire's integrity and would be tossed in any fastpitch or baseball tourney I have ever been involved in.

[soceric]

In no particular order, here are some things umpires hate:

Blockers and Ghosts
A blocker is a catcher who doesn’t catch. At higher levels of ball, strikes will not be called if the pitch is dropped. At lower levels, we don't have that luxury - but it's still annoying.

A ghost is a catcher who neither catches nor blocks. They will not get called strikes. Enough said.



Whether it's fair or not I won't say... But... This is totally true. A catcher who doesn't really know how to receive well isn't going to get the close strikes. And.. worse yet.. the catcher who lets the umpire get beat up isn't going to get calls either.

[wogdoggy]

Certainly there are - when the batter swings and misses, and F2 doesn't catch it.

cant you interpret those rules too? you have no problem calling strikes balls

[wogdoggy]

You should have warned him and if it happened again ran him. LOL

So a catcher saying that ones on me, isn't that almost the samething as saying that the umpire missed the call? A form of showing you up?

What's the difference if a coach asks his catcher where that one missed? or telling his team that it's a low zone so make adjustments?


Most people who have been around the game for a while understand all of the things that go on and are generally excepted. So an UMP can't run a coach for saying, "call it the same on both halfs of the inning" and in the same breath call a strike a ball because the catcher drops it.

EXACTLY :happy:

[MrUmpireSir]

So a catcher saying that ones on me, isn't that almost the samething as saying that the umpire missed the call? A form of showing you up?

I am somewhat surprised that this needs explaining so much, but you all seem genuine, so here it goes: The catcher is not showing up the umpire. He is acknowledging what everyone already knows - that the pitch was a strike, and he would have gotten the call had he caught the pitch. He is apologizing to his Manager and Pitcher.

Most people who have been around the game for a while understand all of the things that go on and are generally excepted [sic].

Correct. Baseball is a game of rules molded to traditions, and these vary according to level. For example, as you can all see in my tagline, judgement calls can never be argued, period. And yet, we have discussions about "how far" coaches can go, and how long the leash should be, and what "language" will get you dumped, etc. Do we see every single coach who objects to a judgement call get ejected immediately? No, not always. Sometimes, for various reasons, we may just let him vent a bit, or warn, or whatever. That is the tradition.

In the case at hand, an umpire who routinely calls dropped fastballs not offered at "strikes", will not last very long at that level. This is just the way it is. You might was well tilt at windmills.

So an UMP can't run a coach for saying, "call it the same on both halfs of the inning" and in the same breath call a strike a ball because the catcher drops it.

Of course we can. And do.

[wogdoggy]

after 51 years i just found out today, all taken strikes must be caught to be a strike..thank you.

[wogdoggy]

Certainly there are - when the batter swings and misses, and F2 doesn't catch it.

what if he doesnt swing? i'm sure you get ALOT of beefs don't you? 'sir'

[bbb3601]

The more I think about this I just shake my head. I was watching an Indians game earlier this year and Martinez dropped like three of Lee's strikes in the same inning. The lovely Morgan crew was joking around about it how it happens some days, maybe getting crossed up etc etc. The umpire called them all strikes and no one seemed suprised even the batter that he rung up!

[MrUmpireSir]

The more I think about this I just shake my head. I was watching an Indians game earlier this year and Martinez dropped like three of Lee's strikes in the same inning. The lovely Morgan crew was joking around about it how it happens some days, maybe getting crossed up etc etc. The umpire called them all strikes and no one seemed suprised even the batter that he rung up!

I have seen this also in the majors, especially in the last two years. It may filter down to so-called "higher levels" of amateur ball. We'll see.

[wogdoggy]

I have seen this also in the majors, especially in the last two years. It may filter down to so-called "higher levels" of amateur ball. We'll see.

please what filters what way? up to down down to up sideways to higher please? just call the game the right way you'd be better off...seems you have alot of people here barking at you, I'd imagine it happens on the field as well???? :bowdown:

[MrUmpireSir]

seems you have alot of people here barking at you, I'd imagine it happens on the field as well???? :bowdown:

No, never on this call.

[ipitch]

When I first started doing 18-20 y.o. rep ball, I called a dropped pitch a strike - once - and there were moans and groans all around. From the dugout came "Uh, Blue, we catch strikes in this league."

Strikes are catchable (knuckleballs excepted!).


There would not be moans and groans if the all umpires just went by the actual rulebook, and not their own.

It's pretty amazing that players/fan disagreed with your CORRECT call, so then you decided to make incorrect calls from then on! :crazy

[wogdoggy]

There would not be moans and groans if the all umpires just went by the actual rulebook, and not their own.

It's pretty amazing that players/fan disagreed with your CORRECT call, so then you decided to make incorrect calls from then on! :crazy

this guy would TRULY test my patience...wishy washy comes to mind

[mightylakers]

this guy would TRULY test my patience...wishy washy comes to mind

So what you gonna do? A Zambrano move? LOL:D

[MrUmpireSir]

Whether it's fair or not I won't say... But... This is totally true. A catcher who doesn't really know how to receive well isn't going to get the close strikes. And.. worse yet.. the catcher who lets the umpire get beat up isn't going to get calls either.

True. If I get hit by a not-offered at pitch, it is a BALL. Honestly, this is news?!

[Baseball gLove]

In no particular order, here are some things umpires hate:
Blockers and Ghosts
A blocker is a catcher who doesn’t catch. At higher levels of ball, strikes will not be called if the pitch is dropped. At lower levels, we don't have that luxury - but it's still annoying.

A ghost is a catcher who neither catches nor blocks. They will not get called strikes. Enough said.



I don't know of any umpires that do that. That is why there is a dropped 3rd strike rule.

[wogdoggy]

So what you gonna do? A Zambrano move? LOL:D

report him to start...if he gets enough reports something MAY happen...bad umps ruin the game too!

we had a basketball coach whose neighbor was the ref..it was AMAZING what this ref did to the kids..AMAZING..the last two minutes were an absolute football game..this ref MADE SURE his neighbor won..sickening

[wogdoggy]

True. If I get hit by a not-offered at pitch, it is a BALL. Honestly, this is news?!

well if you keep calling stikes balls at the OLDER levels i'd make sure ya got beat up

[MrUmpireSir]

well if you keep calling stikes balls at the OLDER levels i'd make sure ya got beat up

Ooooh. I'm quaking in my plate shoes.

[JJA]

MrUmpireSir,

What you state is what happens in all the games I watch (primarily high school + travel ball): if you don't catch it, it's not a strike. I have no problem with the idea in principle, my beef is that it isn't in the rule book. You've given us a pretty good lecture in the other thread about the umpires abiding by the rule book which I'm all for, absolutely 100% on board. However, the corollary to this is that umpires should call it like the rule book, or change the rule. I don't think that is too much to ask. I've seen umpires with other pet "rules" and it isn't right. There shouldn't be a rule book and then a unwritten rule book that I have to try to figure out somehow. I've got enough to do as a coach to understand the rules as written, and not also have to have a separate rule book for each of my local umpires, which unfortunately is often the case.

[wogdoggy]

Ooooh. I'm quaking in my plate shoes.

lol...dont worry eventually we will find the small unprotected area..lol...we always do..lol :happy:

[wogdoggy]

MrUmpireSir,

What you state is what happens in all the games I watch (primarily high school + travel ball): if you don't catch it, it's not a strike. I have no problem with the idea in principle, my beef is that it isn't in the rule book. You've given us a pretty good lecture in the other thread about the umpires abiding by the rule book which I'm all for, absolutely 100% on board. However, the corollary to this is that umpires should call it like the rule book, or change the rule. I don't think that is too much to ask. I've seen umpires with other pet "rules" and it isn't right. There shouldn't be a rule book and then a unwritten rule book that I have to try to figure out somehow. I've got enough to do as a coach to understand the rules as written, and not also have to have a separate rule book for each of my local umpires, which unfortunately is often the case.



good post..!!!! love to hear "SIRS" response to this???

[MrUmpireSir]

MrUmpireSir,

What you state is what happens in all the games I watch (primarily high school + travel ball): if you don't catch it, it's not a strike. I have no problem with the idea in principle, my beef is that it isn't in the rule book. You've given us a pretty good lecture in the other thread about the umpires abiding by the rule book which I'm all for, absolutely 100% on board. However, the corollary to this is that umpires should call it like the rule book, or change the rule. I don't think that is too much to ask. I've seen umpires with other pet "rules" and it isn't right. There shouldn't be a rule book and then a unwritten rule book that I have to try to figure out somehow. I've got enough to do as a coach to understand the rules as written, and not also have to have a separate rule book for each of my local umpires, which unfortunately is often the case.

Well, you're mixing a few things up. Maybe I can help.

First, "pet rules" would refer to special rules that are peculiar to one umpire. These, obviously, are wrong. Players and coaches have a right to expect (or at least hope for) consistency between umpires working a given level of ball. If I was the only umpire working the League who called uncaught, not offered at fastballs, balls - well, that would be pretty bad. Just as if I was the only one who called them strikes.

The other concept you seem to acknowledge when you say:

What you state is what happens in all the games I watch (primarily high school + travel ball): if you don't catch it, it's not a strike. I have no problem with the idea in principle, my beef is that it isn't in the rule book."

You are saying the same thing as I am - baseball is rules molded to traditions. The traditions are not in the rule book, and they vary according to the level of ball, and perhaps even geography.

[Berkman#17]

He's not the first umpire do not give a strike call to catchers that can't catch it. I've heard several umpires tell catchers, "If you don't catch it, I can't give it to you"

And I agree with that. It would be hypocritical of me to say otherwise, when I regularly chirp at the umpire when the other team doesn't catch it, yet it is called a strike.

Fans and some coaches may not like it, but IMO you gotta earn some things. Just like a hitter can "earn" a smaller strike zone if they show they are willing to fight off close pitches, a catcher has to earn the strike zone for his pitcher sometimes.

[Baseball gLove]

True. If I get hit by a not-offered at pitch, it is a BALL. Honestly, this is news?!

It depends on where it hit you. You are standing behind the plate, are you not?

[MrUmpireSir]

He's not the first umpire do not give a strike call to catchers that can't catch it. I've heard several umpires tell catchers, "If you don't catch it, I can't give it to you"

And I agree with that. It would be hypocritical of me to say otherwise, when I regularly chirp at the umpire when the other team doesn't catch it, yet it is called a strike.

Fans and some coaches may not like it, but IMO you gotta earn some things. Just like a hitter can "earn" a smaller strike zone if they show they are willing to fight off close pitches, a catcher has to earn the strike zone for his pitcher sometimes.

So it seems there are more than a few of you who know what I'm talking about. I was starting to wonder what planet the others played on....

[cubsphill]

I can't stand umpires with egos. It makes you really appreciate the few that don't.

[Baseball gLove]

:clapping

I can't stand umpires with egos. It makes you really appreciate the few that don't.

Exactly.

[Newyouthcoach]

Get off Sirs back. What he is stating is what is actually taught at the higher levels of ball (HS). As an HS umpire, the biggest chirping I have heard from the coaches is calling a strike on any pitch other than one right down the middle that is dropped a strike. Same goes for a curve caught at the catchers feet even though the batter is in the front of the box.

I worked a game this season with a D1 umpire with 4 world series rings and got reamed over my calling those types of pitching. I personally try to call the zone by the book, but get flack on dropped strikes and that loopy curve. I too have had catchers apologize to me for dropping one that nicked the outside corner. I called those strikes my first few games and quickly learned that coaches did not like those calls either way.

[JJA]

MrUmpireSir,

I may understand where you're coming from, and I see it in games, but it doesn't make it right. Sorry, I don't think "tradition" should have equal value with the rules. How hard would it be to change the rule to say it has to be caught to be a strike? Obviously not hard. I just see a lot more "tradition" behind the plate then I personally like. (Those in southern California know that there is the Carson "tradition" that no outside strikes get called on players from Carson from pitchers outside the city.) Please call the rulebook the way it is written or change the rules and please minimize "tradition".

[wogdoggy]

MrUmpireSir,

I may understand where you're coming from, and I see it in games, but it doesn't make it right. Sorry, I don't think "tradition" should have equal value with the rules. How hard would it be to change the rule to say it has to be caught to be a strike? Obviously not hard. I just see a lot more "tradition" behind the plate then I personally like. (Those in southern California know that there is the Carson "tradition" that no outside strikes get called on players from Carson from pitchers outside the city.) Please call the rulebook the way it is written or change the rules and please minimize "tradition".

he likes to interpret the law HIS WAY ,,sounds like a now popular political party...:banghead:

[Mark H]

Folks you can pontificate about right and wrong but the bottom line is, you have an umpire telling you how it works in the real world. Some of the reasons for it most don't have the experience to know. Some of the reasons are just the tradition he was talking about. Some of the time there may be no good reason. In any case, if you want to coach above rec, listen to the man and pick your battles wisely. In most places, an umpire who called the book would get excused from coming back by the vote of both sides. All I ask is consistency and no bias. Will I whine from time to time anyway? Sure, but that's part of that tradition.

[wogdoggy]

Folks you can pontificate about right and wrong but the bottom line is, you have an umpire telling you how it works in the real world. Some of the reasons for it most don't have the experience to know. Some of the reasons are just the tradition he was talking about. Some of the time there may be no good reason. In any case, if you want to coach above rec, listen to the man and pick your battles wisely. In most places, an umpire who called the book would get excused from coming back by the vote of both sides. All I ask is consistency and no bias. Will I whine from time to time anyway? Sure, but that's part of that tradition.



Folks you can pontificate about right and wrong but the bottom line is, you have an umpire telling you how it works in the real world. Some of the reasons for it most don't have the experience to know

please quit trying to belittle everyone who knows why rules are rules .....Whose real world? We can only establish its the individual UMP's real world..don't have the experience to know? save that crap ,,a ball over the plate is a strike,,, nowhere in the book does it say it has to be caught..umps like this guy are show stealers look at his moniker ,,"SIR"
the guy makes his OWN rules because the ones he is talking about sure aint in the rulebook..call strikes strikes my oh my..:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

[Mark H]

It's not this ump. It's the real world of baseball. Gripe all you want but all you are doing here is shooting the messenger.

[MrUmpireSir]

please quit trying to belittle everyone who knows why rules are rules .....Whose real world? We can only establish its the individual UMP's real world..don't have the experience to know? save that crap ,,a ball over the plate is a strike,,, nowhere in the book does it say it has to be caught..umps like this guy are show stealers look at his moniker ,,"SIR"
the guy makes his OWN rules because the ones he is talking about sure aint in the rulebook..call strikes strikes my oh my..:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

Better stick with 10U.

[Mark H]

I should add, when I first started coaching LL I felt the same way as many of you. Eventually I learned some of what I didn't know, what I could control, what worked and what I just had to let go. Boarding my flight now. Carry on. :)

[mudvnine]

Personally, I'd rather just have an umpire call the game to the best of his abilities and leave his personal opinions out of the game and off of the Internet.

MrUmpire, I personally could careless what you hate (or what you like for that matter), because unless you were to umpire ALL of my games, what YOU have to say here doesn't really mean diddly-squat. Within an inning or two we'll figure out what kind of umpire you are and coach/adjust our players accordingly.

Even the way umpires call balls and strikes are a tell-tale sign of their personality . . . not all that difficult to figure out if he's a "theatrics", "hard-nosed", "egomaniac", "inexperienced" or "professional" umpire. Fortunately, most fall in the last category and the game plays just fine, it's when one of the others show up that you have to approach the game differently.

Most umpires at our level of play are pretty consistent and very rarely affect the outcome of a game (as it should be), so I believe it a bit arrogant of you to come hear and tell us what we should expect or how we should act when dealing with the men in blue. In fact, if you fell into the "professional" category, you probably wouldn't feel the need to even start this thread.

Just from your login name alone, it's obvious of the ego (or insecurity) behind the man . . . YOU'RE OUTTA HERE!!!!

[Iron Jaw]

"Batters in the strike zone."

As a high school player, I crowded the plate like no other. I also got tagged by a lot of pitches, mostly on the left thigh and calf as my front left toe was nearly touching the plate. I didn't care how fast or wild the pitcher was - I guess I had sort of, the David Eckstein mentality. I was the leadoff hitter and my job was to get on base......any way possible. I was hit 11 times my senior year of HS.

My son, who I coach at the Babe Ruth League level (14-15), is more of a free swinger (big kid....he's 6-1 190) who hits for power and is my cleanup guy (first baseman). I don't teach my players to play the way I did unless they show me they are already doing it and have that "no fear" attitude.....then I teach them how to "survive" if they are going to do it. I have one kid who fits that mold. He is also an expert at the Dusty Baker patented move, of turning the body towards the back, bending over and dropping the bat on the ground, exposing the rear-end to the pitcher on an inside or brushback pitch. In other words, his feet don't move, but his body movement lets the umpire know he was "trying" to get out of the way of the pitch......when in reality, he was looking for the cheap HBP.

[wogdoggy]

Better stick with 10U.

lol dead red down the middle and you are going to call it a ball..better stick to drill sarge ..you show em ump...its your game NOT the rulebooks..

[wogdoggy]

I should add, when I first started coaching LL I felt the same way as many of you. Eventually I learned some of what I didn't know, what I could control, what worked and what I just had to let go. Boarding my flight now. Carry on. :)

just because it goes on DOES NOT make it correct..period..it doesnt say it has to be caught..

sure it goes on BUT it SHOULD NOT..:rant:

[wogdoggy]

Personally, I'd rather just have an umpire call the game to the best of his abilities and leave his personal opinions out of the game and off of the Internet.

MrUmpire, I personally could careless what you hate (or what you like for that matter), because unless you were to umpire ALL of my games, what YOU have to say here doesn't really mean diddly-squat. Within an inning or two we'll figure out what kind of umpire you are and coach/adjust our players accordingly.

Even the way umpires call balls and strikes are a tell-tale sign of their personality . . . not all that difficult to figure out if he's a "theatrics", "hard-nosed", "egomaniac", "inexperienced" or "professional" umpire. Fortunately, most fall in the last category and the game plays just fine, it's when one of the others show up that you have to approach the game differently.

Most umpires at our level of play are pretty consistent and very rarely affect the outcome of a game (as it should be), so I believe it a bit arrogant of you to come hear and tell us what we should expect or how we should act when dealing with the men in blue. In fact, if you fell into the "professional" category, you probably wouldn't feel the need to even start this thread.

Just from your login name alone, it's obvious of the ego (or insecurity) behind the man . . . YOU'RE OUTTA HERE!!!!

thank you mudvine its so obvious it reeks,,, hard nosed, ego maniac, best fits here and i havent even seen him call a single pitch yet..lol :highfive::highfive::highfive::rofl::applaud:

[ipitch]

First, "pet rules" would refer to special rules that are peculiar to one umpire. These, obviously, are wrong.

1 umpire out of 10,000 with a "pet rule" = wrong
but
7,000 umpires out of 10,000 with the same "pet rule" = perfectly fine?

Makes no sense. You're no different than that one umpire.

[HYP]

So a catcher saying that ones on me, isn't that almost the samething as saying that the umpire missed the call? A form of showing you up?

I am somewhat surprised that this needs explaining so much, but you all seem genuine, so here it goes: The catcher is not showing up the umpire. He is acknowledging what everyone already knows - that the pitch was a strike, and he would have gotten the call had he caught the pitch. He is apologizing to his Manager and Pitcher.

No need to explain it to me because I know it is one of those unwritten rules. But didn't you say you call it how you see it? If you see it is a strike and the catcher drops it does it change the location of the pitch?

Most people who have been around the game for a while understand all of the things that go on and are generally excepted. So an UMP can't (should say "can") run a coach for saying, "call it the same on both halfs of the inning" and in the same breath call a strike a ball because the catcher drops it.



Correct. Baseball is a game of rules molded to traditions, and these vary according to level. For example, as you can all see in my tagline, judgement calls can never be argued, period. And yet, we have discussions about "how far" coaches can go, and how long the leash should be, and what "language" will get you dumped, etc. Do we see every single coach who objects to a judgement call get ejected immediately? No, not always. Sometimes, for various reasons, we may just let him vent a bit, or warn, or whatever. That is the tradition.

In the case at hand, an umpire who routinely calls dropped fastballs not offered at "strikes", will not last very long at that level. This is just the way it is. You might was well tilt at windmills.



Of course we can. And do.

I know you can and I know you do but in all fairness you shouldn't. Why would you run a coach for inquiring about the strike zone if the umpire is clearly calling strikes balls because the catcher dropped it?

What I am getting at is if you are going to vary from the OBR then you should allow leway for the coach to complain. Last time I checked the OBR doesn't say anything about the catcher dropping a strike becoming a ball.

[MrUmpireSir]

Sorry. Coaches never get a rise out of me. Mild, passing amusement from time to time, but never a rise. What's the point?

Experienced coaches and umpires know how to work with each other at the higher levels. Otherwise, neither of us would be there, now would we?

[HYP]

Folks you can pontificate about right and wrong but the bottom line is, you have an umpire telling you how it works in the real world. Some of the reasons for it most don't have the experience to know. Some of the reasons are just the tradition he was talking about. Some of the time there may be no good reason. In any case, if you want to coach above rec, listen to the man and pick your battles wisely. In most places, an umpire who called the book would get excused from coming back by the vote of both sides. All I ask is consistency and no bias. Will I whine from time to time anyway? Sure, but that's part of that tradition.

Mark, I agree with you. I think the problem I, we have is this. He came on before and said he calls it the way he sees it. Stating rules as to why a coach should be ran. Then turns around and says he calls some strikes balls because the catcher dropped the ball.

Yes I know this happens. Yes I yell at my catcher to squeeze it, you just cost us a strike. But if I question a call i don't expect to be tossed right off because he is breaking the OBR. He should give a little leway.

[HYP]

Personally, I'd rather just have an umpire call the game to the best of his abilities and leave his personal opinions out of the game and off of the Internet.

MrUmpire, I personally could careless what you hate (or what you like for that matter), because unless you were to umpire ALL of my games, what YOU have to say here doesn't really mean diddly-squat. Within an inning or two we'll figure out what kind of umpire you are and coach/adjust our players accordingly.

Even the way umpires call balls and strikes are a tell-tale sign of their personality . . . not all that difficult to figure out if he's a "theatrics", "hard-nosed", "egomaniac", "inexperienced" or "professional" umpire. Fortunately, most fall in the last category and the game plays just fine, it's when one of the others show up that you have to approach the game differently.

Most umpires at our level of play are pretty consistent and very rarely affect the outcome of a game (as it should be), so I believe it a bit arrogant of you to come hear and tell us what we should expect or how we should act when dealing with the men in blue. In fact, if you fell into the "professional" category, you probably wouldn't feel the need to even start this thread.

Just from your login name alone, it's obvious of the ego (or insecurity) behind the man . . . YOU'RE OUTTA HERE!!!!

:applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud:

[bbb3601]

Sorry. Coaches never get a rise out of me. Mild, passing amusement from time to time, but never a rise. What's the point?

Experienced coaches and umpires know how to work with each other at the higher levels. Otherwise, neither of us would be there, now would we?

Alabama sb coach just questioned a ball call on ESPN..... even the commentators said that wa what he was doing no ejection. He even gave him an answer. So I guess all high level umpires don't act the same...or are you above them to?

[wogdoggy]

Sorry. Coaches never get a rise out of me. Mild, passing amusement from time to time, but never a rise. What's the point?

Experienced coaches and umpires know how to work with each other at the higher levels. Otherwise, neither of us would be there, now would we?



you sound like a politicain... maybe you both are there for the check, OR to get away from the ole lady? lol..:rolleyes:

[azmatsfan]

The reason umpires often call a pitch on the corner a ball when the catcher drops it, it gives the false impression it was an errant pitch. The same way if a catcher sets up inside and the pitch is thrown on the outside half is called a ball because the catcher has to move his glove. Also, if the catcher sets up an inch outside, and he doesn't have to move his glove the ball is called a strike. There's the illusion that since the pitcher hits his target it's a strike. But these aren't conscious decisions by the umpire. I'm appalled that an umpire would make it a practice of purposefully calling strikes balls because the catcher dropped it. :dismay:

[Mark H]

just because it goes on DOES NOT make it correct..period..it doesnt say it has to be caught..

sure it goes on BUT it SHOULD NOT..:rant:

And I should still have a full head of hair and be able to still go 4.6 in the 40 and there really should be a big rock candy mountain.

[Mark H]

Within an inning or two we'll figure out what kind of umpire you are and coach/adjust our players accordingly.


Exactly.



.

[Mark H]

A bunch of you who are critical of the ump here I don't think have walked in his shoes. I suggest if you went out there at the hs level or high level teenage or older select and tried to ump the way you preach you would get chewed up and spit out. I'm not talking about the egotistical umps or the biased calls but rather the picture the ump painted for you. If you have umped extensively at that level and still want to preach, you have a ticket to talk/preach. If you think the world ought to be different, ok. If you want to self righteously preach what umps ought to do, it seems they are always looking for new umps.

[MrUmpireSir]

A bunch of you who are critical of the ump here I don't think have walked in his shoes. I suggest if you went out there at the hs level or high level teenage or older select and tried to ump the way you preach you would get chewed up and spit out.

One Association I umpire had a disciplinary meeting for an Assistant Coach I ejected. It "sentenced" him to umpiring a particularly nasty rec league. I had never thought about my chosen 2nd profession as a form of penal sanction before, but it turned out to be pretty smart.

As with any new umpire starting out, he was simply awful and got beat up pretty badly (more a reflection on that particular league, actually). It made him a better coach though - never ejected since, I hear.

[wogdoggy]

A bunch of you who are critical of the ump here I don't think have walked in his shoes. I suggest if you went out there at the hs level or high level teenage or older select and tried to ump the way you preach you would get chewed up and spit out. I'm not talking about the egotistical umps or the biased calls but rather the picture the ump painted for you. If you have umped extensively at that level and still want to preach, you have a ticket to talk/preach. If you think the world ought to be different, ok. If you want to self righteously preach what umps ought to do, it seems they are always looking for new umps.

I umped i'm sure you have too,tough job sometimes ,,,, BUT my first intention was to FOLLOW the RULES and be fair.

[wogdoggy]

And I should still have a full head of hair and be able to still go 4.6 in the 40 and there really should be a big rock candy mountain.

so whats your point..? the guy calls strikes balls he doesnt follow the rules admitedly and you are as bald as a cue ball and never got rock candy as a kid..:blah::blah:

[MrUmpireSir]

I think one other thing most umpires hate is to see is their colleagues in blue arguing with coaches and players. This is very poor form. We should never argue - discuss, sure, but never argue.

If a coach wants to come out of the dugout and hit the spin cycle, fine - eject him. Then walk away, and let him appear the aggressor. Umpires that take things personally - even vicious personal attacks - need to consider the source, and let it go. We have all the power, they have none. That is the source of their frustration. So, a higher standard is rightly expected of us.

When we lower ourselves to the point of getting into a screaming match with someone, we're debasing the game. An umpire should not invest himself personally in his calls - the outward appearance should be all business and very professional. Do what you have to, but don't appear to care too much about having done it.

I've starting trying some "low intensity" ejections; last week, a batter said "That's fu**ing ridiculous!" after a called strike (count 0-1!), and I called time, pulled out the lineup card and politiely said "You're done. Go back and have your Manager send out a substitute to assume the count please, then leave." I didn't even look at him. He just stood there then left, and sure enough a sub came out and off we went. The fans didn't even know what had happened, and from the Manager - not a word. Nice quiet game after that.

[Mark H]

I umped i'm sure you have too,tough job sometimes ,,,, BUT my first intention was to FOLLOW the RULES and be fair.

You go ump at the higher levels, follow the book zone to the letter and let us know how that works out for you.

[Mark H]

so whats your point..? the guy calls strikes balls he doesnt follow the rules admitedly and you are as bald as a cue ball and never got rock candy as a kid..:blah::blah:

I rather thought my point was obvious. We live in the real world. Not the I wish world.

[Mark H]

I think one other thing most umpires hate is to see is their colleagues in blue arguing with coaches and players. This is very poor form. We should never argue - discuss, sure, but never argue.

If a coach wants to come out of the dugout and hit the spin cycle, fine - eject him. Then walk away, and let him appear the aggressor. Umpires that take things personally - even vicious personal attacks - need to consider the source, and let it go. We have all the power, they have none. That is the source of their frustration. So, a higher standard is rightly expected of us.

When we lower ourselves to the point of getting into a screaming match with someone, we're debasing the game. An umpire should not invest himself personally in his calls - the outward appearance should be all business and very professional. Do what you have to, but don't appear to care too much about having done it.

I've starting trying some "low intensity" ejections; last week, a batter said "That's fu**ing ridiculous!" after a called strike (count 0-1!), and I called time, pulled out the lineup card and politiely said "You're done. Go back and have your Manager send out a substitute to assume the count please, then leave." I didn't even look at him. He just stood there then left, and sure enough a sub came out and off we went. The fans didn't even know what had happened, and from the Manager - not a word. Nice quiet game after that.


Once in a great while there is a reason to do something worthy of ejection. The one time I got ejected on purpose is a fun story for another time so don't think I've been shy to chew on an occassional bad umpire. If I want to have my say I will expect to get ejected. My fault-no hard feelings about the ejection.

[MrUmpireSir]

Once in a great while there is a reason to do something worthy of ejection. The one time I got ejected on purpose is a fun story for another time. If I want to have my say I will expect to get ejected. My fault no hard feelings.

A local incident here transpired as follows: Asst. Coach came out and said "[Manager] send me out here to get ejected, so just go ahead and toss me, OK?" Base Umpire replied "Toss you? Heck, I'll promote you!" and promptly dumped the Manager in his dugout. Priceless.

[mudvnine]

We have all the power, they have none. WOW!! Just Wow!!

I've starting trying some "low intensity" ejections; last week, a batter said "That's fu**ing ridiculous!" after a called strike (count 0-1!), and I called time, pulled out the lineup card and politiely said "You're done. Go back and have your Manager send out a substitute to assume the count please, then leave." I didn't even look at him. He just stood there then left, and sure enough a sub came out and off we went. The fans didn't even know what had happened, and from the Manager - not a word. Nice quiet game after that.
For some reason, my BS meter is pegged at the moment. :ooo: :disbelief:

[wogdoggy]

I rather thought my point was obvious. We live in the real world. Not the I wish world.

you can try to justify breaking the rules anyway you want..fake world real world whatever..its wrong..its either right or wrong thats what RULES ARE..try to get the concept

[HYP]

You go ump at the higher levels, follow the book zone to the letter and let us know how that works out for you.

You said UMP HS or above? I have. I follow the rules, to the best of my ability. I did my best to be as consistenet as possible.

Have I called a pitch that was close on a corner a ball because the catcher dropped the ball, Yes I have. Not just because he dropped it but it was close to going either way.

Coaches, for the most part like me to Umpire because they knew that they were going to get a fair game and that the outcome would be decided by the teams on the field.

Would the coaches chirp at me, sure they would. Would fans bark at me, sure they would. Did I ever have to run a coach, sure I have. The thing is, I put my ears in my pockets. They could chirp all they want, it doesn't affect the outcome of the game. Now if they got nasty. They got warned. Continue to be nasty, they got ran.

What I learned from being an UMP and a coach is that, most coaches know when they're going to get ran. They know they are pushing the line and are actually expecting to get ran. They are not expecting to get ran by an egotistical UMP that hears everything that is going on around them and is paying more attention to what is being said then what is happening in the field of play.

[wogdoggy]

WOW!! Just Wow!!


For some reason, my BS meter is pegged at the moment. :ooo: :disbelief:

lol..its amazing ,,and the only guys giving him an ear are the "hard core experienced guys" like mark h...lol...:thumbsdown:

[wogdoggy]

You said UMP HS or above? I have. I follow the rules, to the best of my ability. I did my best to be as consistenet as possible.

Have I called a pitch that was close on a corner a ball because the catcher dropped the ball, Yes I have. Not just because he dropped it but it was close to going either way.

Coaches, for the most part like me to Umpire because they knew that they were going to get a fair game and that the outcome would be decided by the teams on the field.

Would the coaches chirp at me, sure they would. Would fans bark at me, sure they would. Did I ever have to run a coach, sure I have. The thing is, I put my ears in my pockets. They could chirp all they want, it doesn't affect the outcome of the game. Now if they got nasty. They got warned. Continue to be nasty, they got ran.

What I learned from being an UMP and a coach is that, most coaches know when they're going to get ran. They know they are pushing the line and are actually expecting to get ran. They are not expecting to get ran by an egotistical UMP that hears everything that is going on around them and is paying more attention to what is being said then what is happening in the field of play.

What I learned from being an UMP and a coach is that, most coaches know when they're going to get ran. They know they are pushing the line and are actually expecting to get ran. They are not expecting to get ran by an egotistical UMP that hears everything that is going on around them and is paying more attention to what is being said then what is happening in the field of play.
__________________


we had a younger ump that tried to control everything that was said in the crowd by the parents..i actually felt sorry for him...he looked like an ass ..

[mudvnine]

I rather thought my point was obvious. We live in the real world. Not the I wish world.

You're speaking figuratively . . . yeah? With posts like this:
I've starting trying some "low intensity" ejections; last week, a batter said "That's fu**ing ridiculous!" after a called strike (count 0-1!), and I called time, pulled out the lineup card and politiely said "You're done. Go back and have your Manager send out a substitute to assume the count please, then leave." I didn't even look at him. He just stood there then left, and sure enough a sub came out and off we went. The fans didn't even know what had happened, and from the Manager - not a word. Nice quiet game after that. Is that the same "real world" you're talking about here?? :D :D

[HYP]

I think one other thing most umpires hate is to see is their colleagues in blue arguing with coaches and players. This is very poor form. We should never argue - discuss, sure, but never argue.

If a coach wants to come out of the dugout and hit the spin cycle, fine - eject him. Then walk away, and let him appear the aggressor. Umpires that take things personally - even vicious personal attacks - need to consider the source, and let it go. We have all the power, they have none. That is the source of their frustration. So, a higher standard is rightly expected of us.

When we lower ourselves to the point of getting into a screaming match with someone, we're debasing the game. An umpire should not invest himself personally in his calls - the outward appearance should be all business and very professional. Do what you have to, but don't appear to care too much about having done it.

I've starting trying some "low intensity" ejections; last week, a batter said "That's fu**ing ridiculous!" after a called strike (count 0-1!), and I called time, pulled out the lineup card and politiely said "You're done. Go back and have your Manager send out a substitute to assume the count please, then leave." I didn't even look at him. He just stood there then left, and sure enough a sub came out and off we went. The fans didn't even know what had happened, and from the Manager - not a word. Nice quiet game after that.


First Bold- You are the typical egotistical Umpire. You think that you are the reason the game should be played. Listen to yourself. "you have all the power", "a higher standard is expected from you".

Are you kidding me? What, the coach is not a professional? He is not capable of the same standard that you are? I forgot the Umpires are almighty!:bowdown:

Second Bold- At what age was this? Did he say it directly to you or did he put his head down and mumble it under his breath to himself? and you were just looking and listening for it?

The reason I ask is because you strike me as the Ump who knows when you puke on yourself on a call(or just miss one on purpose) and knew you were going to get a response. So you were listening intently waiting just so you could try out your new "low intensity" ejection.

[MrUmpireSir]

Are you kidding me? What, the coach is not a professional? He is not capable of the same standard that you are? I forgot the Umpires are almighty!

Hmmm. When was the last time you saw an umpire go charging to a dugout, start screaming insults at a Manager and throwing equipment and bases around? Exactly. Violent, childish outbursts should never occur, but when they do - it ain't us. We should all be capable of the same standard, sure, but that's not how it works.

Second Bold- At what age was this? Did he say it directly to you or did he put his head down and mumble it under his breath to himself? and you were just looking and listening for it? The reason I ask is because you strike me as the Ump who knows when you puke on yourself on a call(or just miss one on purpose) and knew you were going to get a response. So you were listening intently waiting just so you could try out your new "low intensity" ejection.

18, at the plate, turned to me and said it. It would have been an ejection however he said it though. Honestly, is this not an ejection in your world? Please. And I don't need to headhunt, thank you very much. They identify themselves in their own good time without any help from me.

[Mark H]

You said UMP HS or above? I have. I follow the rules, to the best of my ability. .

You called the book zone?

[MrUmpireSir]

What I learned from being an UMP and a coach is that, most coaches know when they're going to get ran. They know they are pushing the line and are actually expecting to get ran. They are not expecting to get ran by an egotistical UMP that hears everything that is going on around them and is paying more attention to what is being said then what is happening in the field of play.We had a younger ump that tried to control everything that was said in the crowd by the parents..i actually felt sorry for him...he looked like an ass ..

Three points:

You are correct. Experienced coaches know exactly where the lines are and don't get run unless they choose to.
Umpires should not be "listening" with rabbit ears to find reasons to be offended. Hearing is passive, however; if we hear it, and we think it was said loud enough for us to be meant to have heard it - then we "heard" it.
Umpires have no authority over the public galleries and should not respond to anything from them, unless for some reason it makes the playing field unsafe.

[mudvnine]

HYP, we've all had this umpire before . . . he's the one that "F's" up and then has to keep talking trying to make himself sound better and convince himself he "has all the power" and therefore must be right . . . only to keep digging his hole deeper.

Instead of reading him by the second inning, we realized who he is by his second post . . . again, not all that difficult.

Understand, his "low intensity" ejection never happened, or at least not with the results he wants us to believe . . . let me get this straight . . .

After cursing at the umpire (that nobody in the stands and presumably on the bench could hear), the kid calmly walks back to the dugout and tells his coach he was ejected (of the "low intensity" type) for cursing at the umpire (as if a kid will freely admit that); the coach then (with "not a word") sends out the sub to replace the hitter. Then it carried on as a nice quiet game, as the fans and coaches just sat there for the remainder of the game, marveling in how peaceful and wonderful ejections of their players can actually be when done in a "low intensity" type manner. Kumbaya

Not sure where this game actually took place, but I'm guessing Valium Valley . . . :rolleyes:

[HYP]

Hmmm. When was the last time you saw an umpire go charging to a dugout, start screaming insults at a Manager and throwing equipment and bases around? Exactly. Violent, childish outbursts should never occur, but when they do - it ain't us. We should all be capable of the same standard, sure, but that's not how it works.

This year twice. Not throwing stuff but chasing a player down who was walking back to the dugout.(other team not mine).

Next time. Interference call gone bad. We pleaded our case didn't go our way. Next batter we got the 3rd out. We came off the field, huddled up in front of the dugout like always before our at bat. PU came over to the huddle and said, "coach come here". Which I replied, "one second please". He replied, "No now", I was trying to talk to my team to get them ready to hit and he walked into our huddle and got in my face and said, "when I tell you to come here, I mean come here now". Tell me that that isn't confrontational?



18, at the plate, turned to me and said it. It would have been an ejection however he said it though. Honestly, is this not an ejection in your world? Please. And I don't need to headhunt, thank you very much. They identify themselves in their own good time without any help from me.

I agree if he turned and said it to you, then he should be ejected. If he stepped out of the box, with his head down and mumbled it under his breath. Then he should be warned that this will not be tolerated and then the game should be continued.

[HYP]

You called the book zone?

To the very best of my ability. a lot of factors play into it. How big is the catcher, etc...

I would set up inside. the outside of the plate would be a little more difficult to manage if the catcher was fairly tall and if he sat up inside, that would make it more difficult to be 100% correct on the outside part of the plate.

[MrUmpireSir]

This year twice. Not throwing stuff but chasing a player down who was walking back to the dugout.(other team not mine).

Next time. Interference call gone bad. We pleaded our case didn't go our way. Next batter we got the 3rd out. We came off the field, huddled up in front of the dugout like always before our at bat. PU came over to the huddle and said, "coach come here". Which I replied, "one second please". He replied, "No now", I was trying to talk to my team to get them ready to hit and he walked into our huddle and got in my face and said, "when I tell you to come here, I mean come here now". Tell me that that isn't confrontational?


That behaviour was totally inappropriate. There is no reason to "chase" anyone, and barking at you like a dog was totally unprofessional. IMO.

[Mark H]

You're speaking figuratively . . . yeah? With posts like this:
Is that the same "real world" you're talking about here?? :D :D

I was referring to curves not getting called even though they drop through the top of the zone or the catcher turned his glove over and the like. But yeah, the F word will usually get you to the car unless you fish with the ump.

[Mark H]

To the very best of my ability. a lot of factors play into it. How big is the catcher, etc...

I would set up inside. the outside of the plate would be a little more difficult to manage if the catcher was fairly tall and if he sat up inside, that would make it more difficult to be 100% correct on the outside part of the plate.

Well if you called LL to the armpits or OBR book zone at a hs level I hope you warned them first. Curve ball bounced in after going through the zone? Outside corner strike carried out of the zone after the catcher set up inside and had to go chase the outside black? Umps I know will tell you this sort of thing will make you unwelcome back by both coaches. If you are doing it, you are doing it. It's not what I see at the higher levels but good for you for walking your talk.

[Mark H]

That behaviour was totally inappropriate. There is no reason to "chase" anyone, and barking at you like a dog was totally unprofessional. IMO.

Yeah, umps are people too and some of them have personality issues, ethical issues and competence issues. That's one subject. The other subject is traditions and common practice of the game. The first you oppose where ever you can. The second is up for discussion. If all the umps will rarely call a strike if you drop the dang thing, then catch it.

[mudvnine]

I was referring to curves not getting called even though they drop through the top of the zone or the catcher turned his glove over and the like. But yeah, the F word will usually get you to the car unless you fish with the ump.

Hmmm, I wasn't talking about the use of the "F" word, but if you have your "tunnel vision" glasses on . . . then yeah, I guess I agree with you. :rolleyes: :shrug:

[Mark H]

I'm sure I'm not following you. If you will restate any question you have I'll have another go at it.

[soceric]

I've been reading over all the posts here, and have to say that while it does seem that "Sir Umpire" does have an ego (and who doesn't) I do agree with a lot of what he is saying. It comes down to more than any given situation or tossing a player or manager, it comes down to knowing how to umpire. I've been to a whole lot of games where the umpires were seriously clueless, lazy, and didn't know the rules, and let coaches get way out of hand. I'm not talking about conventions or traditions which a lot of people I understand don't like, but just plain inexperience. For the most part all I need is for an umpire to fairly and consistently apply the rules and if he has some quirks (strike zone) then so be it. If he's getting in position properly to make calls, and he knows the rules well, then i'm good with it. There is nothing worse than letting the umpire know that he has the rule wrong, and being right about it. I'm not sure what levels "mrumpiresir" umps at, but i'd prefer him to many umps, and my bet is that in person many of you would too.

[RodCarew]

Yo, MrUmpireSir..

Is this you?


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Morning-Juice-Outta-here-Tichenor-hits-an-umpi?urn=mlb,166678

[mudvnine]

I'm sure I'm not following you. If you will restate any question you have I'll have another go at it.

Not really that big of a deal Mark, I was commenting on the absurdity of the description of events after the "F" bomb and was asking if that is what you were referring to as "real world".

It was more of a rhetorical question that really doesn't need answering, but thanks for making an effort to try to understand where I was going and for at least attempting to answer such a vague question. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Mark H]

Just wanted to make sure I was not being unresponsive.

[Mark H]

please what filters what way? up to down down to up sideways to higher please? just call the game the right way you'd be better off...seems you have alot of people here barking at you, I'd imagine it happens on the field as well???? :bowdown:

I used to see this sort of thread on eteamz. Mostly the old baseball guys just stayed out of it figuring the newbies would learn by experience if they stayed in the game that long. As the lady said, "no good deed goes unpunished".

[Stumanji]

Dropped strikes happen when the catcher and the pitcher cross signals. I had a pitcher that threw 85-90 mph, and his knuckleball was in the 60's. He could not see my signs (the stadium lighting made it tricky) and decided he'd just throw what he THOUGHT I was calling. I dropped a few fastballs because I was expecting a different pitch. No point in calling them balls when they're right through the middle of the plate. A strike is a strike.

I'll add some from my 8 yr old-16 yr old umpiring days (the players' ages, not mine):

1. Coaches/Parents that say, "Tie goes to the runner!"
2. Coaches/Parents telling me to toss the other coach/parent.
3. Coaches/Parents doing the "Yah! Aww!" when a pitch was close but not the call they were hoping for.
4. Players/Coaches making comments about my calls to their teammates, intentionally loud enough for most of the stadium to hear.
5. Coaches that teach/encourage their players to cheat (skipping bases, using illegal bats, leaving base early, et cetera).
6. Coaches that memorize obscure rules to try to abuse them when there are uninformed umpires officiating (as is the case with Little League games; most umpires at that level are 15-17 years old in my community).
7. Coaches/Parents/Players that do not expect the umpire to know the rules and try to make the umpire feel stupid.

[scorekeeper]

This may just add fuel to the fire, but I can’t help it.

I love baseball and for the most part, the traditions that go with it, but there comes a point in time when some traditions are simply no longer in the best interests of the game. A lot of that comes because of technology. The very same things that allow players to improve, coaches to teach and manage games better, and fans to enjoy games in so many different ways, will inevitably come to umpiring games. In fact, it already has, in the form of instant replay at the ML level, and will sooner or later invade the game in other ways too.

Right now the capability exists to have technology call balls and strikes 100% correctly, and the only thing stopping it is those who long to keep tradition intact to maintain the ambiance of the game. Think of it. This thread would be moot if technology called balls and strikes. Why? Because by the rules, a strike is supposed to be called as soon as the ball touches any part of the strike zone, which could be as soon as the 1st seam touches the front of the zone. And, a ball is supposed to be called as soon as every part of the ball has passed the back edge of the plate.

Technically, teaching catchers to “frame” pitches is just a waste of time because by the time the catcher touches the ball, a computer will have already called the pitch and given it to the umpire or flashed it on the scoreboard. And certainly the tradition of a ball in the strike zone being called a ball because it wasn’t caught would disappear too.

To me there’s so many other things that happen in a game that technology will never be able to call, there will always be scads of things for tradition to hang its hat on, so I’ll be very very happy when calling pitches is no longer among them. The reason is, whether the pitch touches the strike zone or not, is no longer necessary to be a judgment call.

What’s sad is, as sure as I am that this is going to happen in the foreseeable future, I’m fairly sure it won’t be happening at the lower levels in this century.

[wogdoggy]

I used to see this sort of thread on eteamz. Mostly the old baseball guys just stayed out of it figuring the newbies would learn by experience if they stayed in the game that long. As the lady said, "no good deed goes unpunished".



please,,, newbie on this...lol...play by the rules ..:blah::blah::blah:

[MrUmpireSir]

Right now the capability exists to have technology call balls and strikes 100% correctly,

I am not certain this is true. I think the technology can correctly capture the sides of the strike zone, but not the top or bottom. The reason for this is that the strike zone is judged from the batter's position when he is about to hit a pitch:

Rule 2.00: The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

Batters move around a lot, and while this would have no effect on the sides, the top and bottom move. This is why a batter that "squishes" down when he is not swinging to make the pitch look high, can still have the pitch called a strike if, in the umpire's judgement, it would not have been high had he struck at it. Technology would incorrectly "ball" such a pitch.

A second problem is that even if MLB and MiLB got the technology, the rest of baseball (i.e. the other 99.9% of games played) would never be able to afford it, so umpires would still be needed to call balls and strikes.

[baseballislife2008]

MLB umpires suck this year. I have never seen so many blown calls. These guys are getting paid good money to work half a year. I know it's hard being away from family etc. But for what these guys are getting paid I would do it in a heartbeat. It's ridiculous how many blown calls I am seeing this year.

I really don't understand why baseball doesn't go with the replay. Every play is huge in baseball just like it is in all sports. If they have it in football then why not do it in baseball. It completley changes a game when an umpire blows a call at 1st base. Instead of a speedy guy on 1st with 0 outs it could be 1 down and nobody on. HUGE difference and not fair. This can all be changed with just putting in reviews just like football. Forget about slowing down the game. This game has no clock anyway!!

[BigandUgly]

I have no problem with a curve ball nicking the corner, being missed by the catcher being called a ball, even though I know that if the catcher smoothly catches the pitch it would be called a strike. It happens and it's not worth an argument. I was a catcher through HS. On those close ones that were called a ball I'd ask "where was it?" When the ump said outside I'd say thank you and move on. No attitude given, no problem recieved.

I do have a problem with mid plate fastballs being called a ball simply because the catcher didn't hold on.

I also don't have a problem with the umpire not having an exactly correct strike zone, as long as he's consistent and fair. I remember playing a game when we expected a storm to come through. Before the game the umpire told both teams that we needed to play quickly if we wanted to get the game in and he was going to have a liberal strike zone. When our leadoff hitter got a marginal called third strike and had a bit of an attitude our coach replied that we were warned there was a big strike zone and if it's close enough to call we need to protect the plate. I didn't have a problem with it then, and I don't think I'd have a problem with it now.

I'm coaching 12 and 13 year olds now. This year we've already had an umpire tell us that if a batter bails out on an inside pitch that is close to the plate it will be called a strike. The batters need to stay in the box. I don't have a problem with that either. I've had this ump twice and he's one of my favorates.

[Mark H]

You sound like a man preparing kids for the real world in and out of baseball.

[wogdoggy]

You sound like a man preparing kids for the real world in and out of baseball.

versus a non real man...:blah::blah::blah: lol...


funny the REAL man also thought balls down the middle should be strikes..

[Mark H]

versus a non real man...:blah::blah::blah: lol...


funny the REAL man also thought balls down the middle should be strikes..

I don't have a problem with anything he said. And if you will read again I didn't say anything about a real man. I spoke of the real world. I speak now to correct the record. I often don't answer you since the court jester rarely merits a response. BigandUgly sounds like a role model and leader for the kids he coaches. I felt that deserved a compliment.

[wogdoggy]

I don't have a problem with anything he said. And if you will read again I didn't say anything about a real man. I spoke of the real world. I speak now to correct the record. I often don't answer you since the court jester rarely merits a response. BigandUgly sounds like a role model and leader for the kids he coaches. I felt that deserved a compliment.

thanks for the favor i appreciate it..


I do have a problem with mid plate fastballs being called a ball simply because the catcher didn't hold on.
don't worry most of us do..old timers and know it alls included