Please eval hitting mechanics 15 y/o freshman

[parkee99]

Please evaluate my son's hitting mechanics. He was just coming off of pneumonia when this game footage was taken. He did not have much strength and had lost 10 pounds at the time. He was really starting to hit for good power(only 5'8"/130 lbs) when he went down with his illness.

He is just starting his high school summer baseball season tomorrow. We have a cage in our house and do bp usually 4-5 times a week. I am thinking of taking him in for some professional lessons as well.


I was unable to convert the image to a gif as my program was not functioning correctly. Thanks for any advice or suggestion you may have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70ASekMlqTI

[skipper5]

Nice swing, would hit well around here in HS. I don't know about other areas where kids bring it at 85 to 90. But he drops his hands.

Quick out of the box, that's for sure.

[rkbenn]

Not too bad...hands do drop a bit right out the gate. Also a bit too much bat wrap for my taste.

[Kevkey]

I agree with rkben.
Hands are dropping and bat is being wrapped. As DMac used to say "tip and rip". As COM goes forward try tipping the bat toward the pitcher or even exaggerate and tip it towards the 2nd basemen during drills. This simple action prevents the hands from dropping and the bat from wrapping. Additionally this bat tip will keep the front shoulder closed a fraction of a second longer which should give him some more pop.
All that being said. Pretty good swing for a freshman and I never mess with a swing when a kid is hitting well. I am a firm believer in not messing with mechanics too much during the season as long as the kid is having reasonable success at the plate.

[rkbenn]

I agree with rkben.
Hands are dropping and bat is being wrapped. As DMac used to say "tip and rip". As COM goes forward try tipping the bat toward the pitcher or even exaggerate and tip it towards the 2nd basemen during drills. This simple action prevents the hands from dropping and the bat from wrapping. Additional this bat tip will keep the front should closed a fraction of a second longer which should give him some more pop.
All that being said. Pretty good swing for a freshman and I never mess with a swing when a kid is hitting well. I am a firm believer in not messing with mechanics too much during the season as long as the kid is having reasonable success at the plate.

Good advice on the don't mess with during the season. I too like the front foot too be closed to a max of 45 degrees and open naturally. He can get away with the wrap with slower pitching for now. I would suggest top hand swings as well, it helps the wrap with most of the kids I work with.

[songtitle]

Look at his shoulders.

On forward movement, front should go down and back go up.

Then on toe touch, shoulders should start rotating.

On ball contact, front should be up and the back down.

----
Don't wait until the end of the season. Work on it every day. Top hand swings are for linear.

[parkee99]

I agree with rkben.
Hands are dropping and bat is being wrapped. As DMac used to say "tip and rip". As COM goes forward try tipping the bat toward the pitcher or even exaggerate and tip it towards the 2nd basemen during drills. This simple action prevents the hands from dropping and the bat from wrapping. Additionally this bat tip will keep the front shoulder closed a fraction of a second longer which should give him some more pop.
All that being said. Pretty good swing for a freshman and I never mess with a swing when a kid is hitting well. I am a firm believer in not messing with mechanics too much during the season as long as the kid is having reasonable success at the plate.

We have actually talked about where the tip of his bat is pointed. The problem is he seems to have really quick hands and gets around on the hardest throwing pitchers.

I have also recently been trying to get him to land with his stride foot closed a little more. We originally started using the batspeed program when he was 11 and then swithched over to Epstein before his 12 year old season. We did the drills for about 6 months on and off before we abondoned it. Now we just work on swings in the cage and some occasional soft toss from the side/front to warm up.

I am constantly on the forums and have learned much. Any other thoughts would be appreciated!

[songtitle]

His stride foot is open because he is not doing an "inward turn" or "coiling" as he moves forward.

Do the inward turn. This may fix shoulders and front foot problem.

[rkbenn]

We have actually talked about where the tip of his bat is pointed. The problem is he seems to have really quick hands and gets around on the hardest throwing pitchers.

I have also recently been trying to get him to land with his stride foot closed a little more. We originally started using the batspeed program when he was 11 and then swithched over to Epstein before his 12 year old season. We did the drills for about 6 months on and off before we abondoned it. Now we just work on swings in the cage and some occasional soft toss from the side/front to warm up.

I am constantly on the forums and have learned much. Any other thoughts would be appreciated!

Make sure u stick too one program

[parkee99]

Make sure u stick too one program

I am not an absolute fan of any one system. We do not try to flip back and forth on a whim. The high school coaches do not mess with the boys swings unless they are struggling and then they will offer advice.

The Epstein system did get my son to think more rotational as he really was mainly a linear hitter early on. Now we just try to use a rotational approach.

[HYP]

Top hand swings are for linear.

Tell that to David Wright, Barry Bonds or just about all of them.

[parkee99]

Look at his shoulders.

On ball contact, front should be up and the back down.

----
Don't wait until the end of the season. Work on it every day. Top hand swings are for linear.

I think the position of his shoulders is probably due to the fact that the ball is belt high at contact. I would guess you would see a more pronounced front shoulder up and back shoulder down on a ball around his knees.

[songtitle]

I think the position of his shoulders is probably due to the fact that the ball is belt high at contact. I would guess you would see a more pronounced front shoulder up and back shoulder down on a ball around his knees.

His shoulders are good at contact.

The shoulder rotation happens regardless of the location of the ball.

[All-StarLF1713]

needs to keep his head in on the ball. it seems like hes just keeping his head out at the pitcher and not watching the ball all the way in

[songtitle]

needs to keep his head in on the ball. it seems like hes just keeping his head out at the pitcher and not watching the ball all the way in

Based on some books and articles by physics guys, you can't see the ball clearly any closer than 7-10 feet from the plate. Think about watching the cars in NASCAR. When they are in the #4 turn, you see them clearly, but as they go directly in front of you, it's just a blur.

You have to make up your mind where the pitch will be at roughly the halfway mark, then start swinging. You can use your body tilt and your hands (to a lesser extent) to adjust for a limited time before the ball becomes a blur.

[rkbenn]

I am not an absolute fan of any one system. We do not try to flip back and forth on a whim. The high school coaches do not mess with the boys swings unless they are struggling and then they will offer advice.

The Epstein system did get my son to think more rotational as he really was mainly a linear hitter early on. Now we just try to use a rotational approach.

Just want to be sure because kids get confused easy. I too incorporate 3 systems, 4 if you include some of the info I got on here. I teach what I feel is the best of all, but teach different cues.

[DukeK]

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/lk2500/zbat43020090.gif

His hands look ok at contact, but for whatever reason (perhaps the old timers here can help) his follow through look weak - he doesn't roll his bottom wrist until the bat is pointing at 3rd base or beyond. As we've discussed before the wrists should roll when the bat is pointing at the pitcher and the rear humerus/elbow should explode up through contact.

Take T here for example, much better follow through.

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/lk2500/TSwing1Slow.gif

[parkee99]

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/lk2500/zbat43020090.gif

His hands look ok at contact, but for whatever reason (perhaps the old timers here can help) his follow through look weak - he doesn't roll his bottom wrist until the bat is pointing at 3rd base or beyond. As we've discussed before the wrists should roll when the bat is pointing at the pitcher and the rear humerus/elbow should explode up through contact.



I agree there is something funky with his follow through on this particlar swing. He looks good at contact to me as well. On outside pitches he usually lets go with his top hand. He seems to get bound up when he holds on with both hands through the whole swing.

[jbooth]

I agree there is something funky with his follow through on this particlar swing. He looks good at contact to me as well. On outside pitches he usually lets go with his top hand. He seems to get bound up when he holds on with both hands throught the whole swing.

He's not letting his front elbow rise up. He's locking his front arm and then keeping the arm straight and keeping the front elbow close to his body. he isn't letting the front elbow get up and out of the way.

Here's Manny on a pitch that is just a little bit higher. Note how his front elbow gets up and out. The young man's goes down and in.

http://firstpickclub.com/video/MRamirez_Side.gif

[Mark H]

Anyone notice where the bat head is at launch in the kid vs Manny or the lefty?

[Kevkey]

JBooth nails the problem, no front elbow going up and out.
Again, I believe you should first fix the problem with the bat wrap by tipping the head of the bat towards the pitcher, or as others have said you point the knob of the bat at the catcher (don't want to get into a cue war here).
Get the hands in the correct launch position, as noted by Mark, and I believe it will make fixing the front shoulder easier.
Again, he is in the middle of the season. You can tweek his swing by working on something simple. Don't start on a list of things that should be fixed until the offseason. Remember your first statement "He is hitting the ball well."
You change too many things and he stops hitting you know who he will think is the cause of his problems (did it with my daughter and my house was frosty cold for a few weeks)

[parkee99]

JBooth nails the problem, no front elbow going up and out.
Again, I believe you should first fix the problem with the bat wrap by tipping the head of the bat towards the pitcher, or as others have said you point the knob of the bat at the catcher (don't want to get into a cue war here).
Get the hands in the correct launch position, as noted by Mark, and I believe it will make fixing the front shoulder easier.
Again, he is in the middle of the season. You can tweek his swing by working on something simple. Don't start on a list of things that should be fixed until the offseason. Remember your first statement "He is hitting the ball well."
You change too many things and he stops hitting you know who he will think is the cause of his problems (did it with my daughter and my house was frosty cold for a few weeks)

Thanks for the advice and critique everybody. It gives us something to work on. I have added one more quick swing last night in our cage directly from the side. I did not have a lot of time and this ball was up above the belt. I really do appreciate the input. I can really see the bat wrapping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_7h79BRaNE

[jbooth]

Thanks for the advice and critique everybody. It gives us something to work on. I have added one more quick swing last night in our cage directly from the side. I did not have a lot of time and this ball was up above the belt. I really do appreciate the input. I can really see the bat rapping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_7h79BRaNE

It's not wrapping that's the problem. It's that his bat is too horizontal. Get the bathead up. You do that by changing the elbow positions. Get the front elbow down in the stance and the rear elbow up. This will change the bat angle. The elbows then switch position as you swing.

He is probably thinking "swing level" which causes him to get the bat horizontal, drop the hands down and then swing on a level plane.

The plane should be diagonal. The bathead should arc from above the head, around and down to the ball. He is swinging flat. That's why his front elbow stays down.

[parkee99]

It's not wrapping that's the problem. It's that his bat is too horizontal. Get the bathead up. You do that by changing the elbow positions. Get the front elbow down in the stance and the rear elbow up. This will change the bat angle. The elbows then switch position as you swing.

He is probably thinking "swing level" which causes him to get the bat horizontal, drop the hands down and then swing on a level plane.

The plane should be diagonal. The bathead should arc from above the head, around and down to the ball. He is swinging flat. That's why his front elbow stays down.

Thanks, we will try to make an adjustment and post new video.

[DukeK]

I have added one more quick swing last night in our cage directly from the side. I did not have a lot of time and this ball was up above the belt. I really do appreciate the input. I can really see the bat wrapping.


http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/lk2500/zbatting526.gif

[Mark H]

It's not wrapping that's the problem. It's that his bat is too horizontal. Get the bathead up.

Exactly.







.

[parkee99]

My son took a 30 minute lesson Thursday night. We adjusted his swing a little. He has only made probably 40 swings with this approach when I took the video.

Changes we are attempting:

1. More atheletic stance
2. get the bat more vertical with knob pointing back towards the catcher
3. not barring his front arm

I think his swing is looking better. Any more thoughts or comments on the adjustments? Thanks again.

DukeK, if you are out there, would ya mind converting this to a gif? :bowdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF_uCU0Hul0

[DukeK]

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/lk2500/Znew53009.gif

[songtitle]

Everything is good thru stride and elbow drop.

Then, instead of keeping his elbow in, or "tucked", he pushes his elbow away from his body (and stops rotating his hips), his hands go down (instead of up) and his wrists roll.

So, loosen the grip on the top hand, keep the elbow in longer, and keep rotating.

[Mark H]

Keep the lead arm close to the chest much longer. And add some vertical loading. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis;jsessionid=gnffa66517.tiger_s?p=10&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9


More clips to compare yourself to. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis;jsessionid=8fllcp2i01.lion_s