Fire Eric Wedge now!

[PF#9]

Seriously, we are getting nowhere with him. He has already proven incapable of long-term success. So why do we still have him? We could be having Joe Torre as our manager, but no, we had to keep Wedge despite blowing a big lead against Boston (Mike Hargrove did the same thing and got fired for it).

And, so, we have been struggling under Wedge while Torre is managing the Dodgers to first place.

The point is, if the Indians want to move ahead and start winning, Wedge needs to go.

[RuthMayBond]

Seriously, we are getting nowhere with him. He has already proven incapable of long-term success. So why do we still have him? We could be having Joe Torre as our manager, but no, we had to keep Wedge despite blowing a big lead against Boston (Mike Hargrove did the same thing and got fired for it).

And, so, we have been struggling under Wedge while Torre is managing the Dodgers to first place.

The point is, if the Indians want to move ahead and start winning, Wedge needs to go.Because it certainly couldn't be the players :rolleyes:

[KCGHOST]

Wedge would be a lot smarter if Hafner would return to being Pronk.

[RuthMayBond]

Wedge might even be smarter if his bullpen would stop giving gopher balls. I wonder if Torre will be not so smart for, oh let's pick a random number, about the next 50 games

[Captain Cold Nose]

Wedge would be a lot smarter if Cliff Lee could stop being outpitched. It's not either's fault they ran into Justin Verlander at the top of his game twice in five days.

If those bats wake up, will Wedge become a genius?

[Eyeshade]

Yes, Wedge should certainly be looked at. One of the roles a manger can play is to keep the team's collective "head on straight". I dunno, but I'm there every night and the fellas seem a little blase' for the most part. I know he's big on "grinding it out" and pacing yourself, but I think that act and line is getting old with the players. A change might be good- it might wake some of these guys up and get them to focus. This is a very mentally sloppy team.

No, Wedge only is directly responsible for managing the bullpen (McGraw and Stengel couldn't "manage" this pile of doo-doo) and making out the lineup card (if they are all playing like doo-doo it's just a rearranged pile.) Ultimately, the players, who are well paid adult professionals need to perform. They have done it in the past and should in theory be able to do it again. Why ain't they? See the "Yes" portion above. Like a great philosopher once said- 50% of the game is 90% mental. Or something like that. So I say- what the heck. Why not try a change.

[cavalier1968]

18 runners LOB
worst record in baseball
Fire Wedge and take Shapiro with you.
60+ years is long enough

Cav

[RuthMayBond]

18 runners LOBWedge has GOT to start hitting in the clutch

<Fire Wedge and take Shapiro with you.>

How soon we forget 2007

<60+ years is long enough>

We await your suggestion for replacement

[RuthMayBond]

Wedge would be a lot smarter if Hafner would return to being Pronk.Pronk is the least of our worries. If you ONLY want to focus on our hitters:

Garko can't field much but at least he can hit . . . wait, a 92 OPS+ for a 1B, with 4 runs?

Peralta can't field much for a SS but at least he can hit . . . wait, a 63 OPS+

Francisco, a CORNER OF with a 78 OPS+, 9 RBI

Grady, an 86 OPS+ and a .227 LEADOFF hitter, thrown out 6 of 11 times trying to steal

[ol' aches and pains]

Pronk is the least of our worries. If you ONLY want to focus on our hitters:

Garko can't field much but at least he can hit . . . wait, a 92 OPS+ for a 1B, with 4 runs?

Peralta can't field much for a SS but at least he can hit . . . wait, a 63 OPS+

Francisco, a CORNER OF with a 78 OPS+, 9 RBI

Grady, an 86 OPS+ and a .227 LEADOFF hitter, thrown out 6 of 11 times trying to steal

Yes, is Sizemore injured or something? In the series just ended with the White Sox, he was thrown out easily on a steal attempt. It was only the 2nd caught stealing for the Sox this season, and I sure didn't think we'd catch Sizemore. Something must be wrong with him.

[cavalier1968]

Wedge has GOT to start hitting in the clutch

<Fire Wedge and take Shapiro with you.>

How soon we forget 2007

<60+ years is long enough>

We await your suggestion for replacement

Point 1....If I dont produce my manager will eventually be replaced......just like in real life

Point 2.....I HAD THE BEST SALES RECORD IN 2007 ALSO, BUT IF i DO NOT PRODUCE IN 2009.......WILL MY BOSS SAY " YOU WERE SO GOOD IN 2007, I WILL LET YOU FAIL IN 2009 WITH NO GRIPE..........:rofl:

Point 3......ANyone but Wedge.........and I say this as Tampa just put up a 7 spot and are still batting........and after we had them 7-0 and lost.....

Cav

[cavalier1968]

After a second look, Maybe I should change my mind.....

We have the worst record in the AL
ANd We've given up the most runs in baseball
Wedge should stay.....


:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy

CAv

[RuthMayBond]

Point 1....If I dont produce my manager will eventually be replaced......just like in real lifeThen you work for a screwy company

<Point 3......ANyone but Wedge.........>

I wish you were hiring for the Tribe, *I* am "anybody"

<and I say this as Tampa just put up a 7 spot and are still batting........and after we had them 7-0 and lost.....>

Wedge still can't pitch :rolleyes:

[RuthMayBond]

After a second look, Maybe I should change my mind.....

We have the worst record in the AL
ANd We've given up the most runs in baseball
Wedge should stay.....


:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy

CAvNo, get rid of him, keep those players that can't play :rolleyes:

[KCGHOST]

The storm clouds are gathering around Wedge and Shapiro is starting to distance himself.

Of course it is the players who are stinking up the joint. But, that's the hardest group to replace. And the GM supplied those players so he has to take some of the hit also. So when it come down to blaming the players he acquired or firing the manager he hired a GM will always opt for the latter.

[RuthMayBond]

And the GM supplied those players so he has to take some of the hit also.Lotsa luck with that

<So when it come down to blaming the players he acquired or firing the manager he hired a GM will always opt for the latter.>

The one that will probably produce much less results

[flea45]

yes the players have sucked this year collectively. however, when wedge has yet to throw out a lineup that has been the same TWO DAYS IN A ROW, how can this team find any consistency?

i will say it again, the team has sucked, but wedge has done everything he can to keep his team hitting .200 and with era's above 5. he is clearly doing nothing to HELP this team return to where they should be playing, so i say a shake-up should be coming. This team's passive approach to the season fristrates me, leaving guys struggling in the lineup while prospects hit in the minors or sit on the bench.

get rid of wedge, play the young guys, see what happens.

[aqib]

Just look north to see what a good manager can do. Even with a recent 9 game losing streak the Jays are in contention with the same team minus AJ Burnett and closer BJ Ryan.

As for Shapiro I am not sold on him either. If not for Montreal being threatened with contraction he never would have gotten Lee and Sizemore, without those two the team would be in even worse shape. But start with Wedge and see what a real manager can do.

[RuthMayBond]

Just look north to see what a good manager can do. Even with a recent 9 game losing streak the Jays are in contention with the same team minus AJ Burnett and closer BJ Ryan.
1) They haven't played two months yet
2) What's with the ten-year layoff?

[aqib]

I know the Jays haven't played two months yet but go back to last year and see how quickly they turned things around when we got there. Even in his first stint in 1989 they had the worst record in the first 36 games and the best record over the last 126. Wedge has been here since 2003 the teams consistently start the season slow and look like they aren't ready to play for the first month. His x's and o's during games leaves much to be desired. Yes there are a TON of personnel issues but even with great personnel I don't think this guy can get it done.

As for Cito's 10 year layoff I have no idea, I think there is a good chance there was a racial component to some of it. Also, he might not interview well.

[PF#9]

Well, the Indians just lost their 5th straight. It looks like the writing is on the wall for Wedge.

Since his firing is inevitable, I want everyone's honest opinion on who should be the next manager.

I prefer either Jack McKeon or the return of Mike Hargrove. McKeon has a penchant for turning bad teams around, and Hargrove was our manager for like 7.5 years.

[RuthMayBond]

Well, the Indians just lost their 5th straight. It looks like the writing is on the wall for Wedge.

Since his firing is inevitable,In how many hours will this "inevitability" take place?

<I prefer either Jack McKeon or the return of Mike Hargrove. McKeon has a penchant for turning bad teams around, and Hargrove was our manager for like 7.5 years.>

Hargrove already left the first-place Ms, why would he come to the dreadful Indians. McKeon has sure had a lot of managing gaps, hasn't managed in four years, and will be eighty next year

[EdTarbusz]

or the return of Mike Hargrove. .

If you think the team is blase under Wedge it would be even worse under Hargrove. Hargrove srecialized in running teams that thought they could until the playoffs.

[cavalier1968]

This team...picked by many to win the central is on pace to lose about 100 games..........so yeah....keep wedge...:noidea:noidea:noidea


Cav

[RuthMayBond]

This team...picked by many to win the central is on pace to lose about 100 games..........so yeah....keep wedge...:noidea:noidea:noidea


CavWedge has MANY players WAY underperforming....so yeah...keep the players ...:noidea:noidea:noidea

[cavalier1968]

Many questions?

Did the players underperform last year? and is this a trend?
Is the manager responsible for players underperforming?


Cav:radio

[Eyeshade]

So...Is it easier/cheaper to fire the manager and get someone new who can get the palyers to perform or get a bunch of new players? Would a hell-raiser type like Billy Martin get these guys performing (yes I know Billy is dead) or are they underperforming because of the "grind it out" attitude that Wedge is always talking about.
I know if my boss would tell me to "grind it out" and if he covered my backside to the powers-that-be at work, I wouldn't be going all out everyday. I'd figure "hey, I'm doing my share".
I dunno, I just think that a different approach is needed. As much as everyone hates the kind of boss that rips on you all the time, they sure as hell can wake you up and get you performing in the short term.
Wedge is a good guy and knows the game but it's just time for a change. His approach isn't working anymore.

[RuthMayBond]

So...Is it easier/cheaper to fire the manager
Oh, you're talking about easier and cheaper

< and get someone new who can get the palyers to perform>

And I thought these guys were pros and didn't need someone to "get" them to perform

<As much as everyone hates the kind of boss that rips on you all the time, they sure as hell can wake you up and get you performing in the short term.>

So we're looking for a guy that you admit only works in the short term?

[Eyeshade]

Ruth May Bond,
Please read carefully- 1)I'm asking "Is it easier/cheaper". This is just presented to foster discussion and given the realities of the market and baseball it is a legitimate question. I agree it is not fair or right- just realistic. 2) There is no direct correllation between how much money one makes or how skilled someone is and their ability and/or desire to perform. 3) About Wedge- please read that "I like the guy". The idea about a hell-raiser is from personal experience. I've seen it work. Fear is a great motivator, as is someone constantly chewing you out. It only worked for a while, but it worked. Like Wedge's persona and style (which is markedly dfferent) it eventually wore off. It is just how things are in employee/ boss relationships, which is what this is.

Sure it is the players who, for the most part, aren't "cutting it"- especially pitchers. But something has to be done in a business when the business fails/loses money- and that is what is happening with the Indians. It is a business. The customers aren't buying the product and certainly won't buy the product next season. Ownership can't fire the team. They can trade some of the marketable players and hope for the best return. Ownership can get new leadership relatively easily in someone other than Wedge and/or Shapiro and hope that that will get customers to believe that the product will improve and buy the product. Will they do this? In a fair world no. In baseball- it's been done many times before. Its the most likely scenario and NO I DON'T AGREE THAT IT SHOULD HAPPEN BUT IT IS A REALITY.

From personal experience I can tell you that money is VERY tight there and management is not happy. People that should be held innocent are losing their money and livelihoods in this. If firing Wedge or Shapiro will help the business it will be done. It's business, fair has nothing to do with it (Think banking and automotive bailouts).
Go Tribe

[RuthMayBond]

2) There is no direct correllation between how much money one makes or how skilled someone is and their ability to perform.If you omit young players who haven't had enough time to go free agent, I would say there's a good correlation. Not perfect of course

<Ownership can get new leadership relatively easily in someone other than Wedge and/or Shapiro and hope that that will get customers to believe that the product will improve and buy the product. Will they do this? In a fair world no. In baseball- it's been done many times before. Its the most likely scenario and NO I DON'T AGREE THAT IT SHOULD HAPPEN BUT IT IS A REALITY>

I agree with THIS. Before you were questioning Wedge's ability

[Eyeshade]

Not questioning his ability at all- He seems to know the game very, very well or he wouldn't be managing. I just question his approach of "grinding it out" as being motivating. A lot of people, regardless of income or skill, need a good kick in the pants sometimes to perform, and I just don't know if he is/can/will do that. But I guess after the Shapiro announcement yesterday we'll have the rest of the year with him managing and with the same coaches.

Speaking of coaches- Anyone wanna discuss Louis Isaac's dismissal and the bullpen performance?

[cavalier1968]

I guess 4-16 over your last 20 games earns you "a vote of confidence"....

Cav

[ol' aches and pains]

Not questioning his ability at all- He seems to know the game very, very well or he wouldn't be managing. I just question his approach of "grinding it out" as being motivating. A lot of people, regardless of income or skill, need a good kick in the pants sometimes to perform, and I just don't know if he is/can/will do that. But I guess after the Shapiro announcement yesterday we'll have the rest of the year with him managing and with the same coaches.

Speaking of coaches- Anyone wanna discuss Louis Isaac's dismissal and the bullpen performance?

When Lou Holtz was coaching Notre Dame, an interviewer asked him how he motivated his players. He said "I don't motivate them, I just get rid of the ones that aren't motivated". If these guys aren't motivated by the time they reach the Major Leagues, they never will be. Unfortunately, it's not so easy to get rid of them at that level.

[RuthMayBond]

When Lou Holtz was coaching Notre Dame, an interviewer asked him how he motivated his players. He said "I don't motivate them, I just get rid of the ones that aren't motivated". If these guys aren't motivated by the time they reach the Major Leagues, they never will be.Thank you :nod:

[Eyeshade]

I'm around three pro sports teams in town on game days. I assure you that there are varying degrees of effort put out by the players on all three teams. Thinking otherwise and saying that just because they are pros they must/should try their best everyday is naive. Also, if you say honestly given 100% everday of your working life you are probably less than truthful.

[Eyeshade]

I take it all back...it must be just the players. Let's start all over and get some real go-getters that are nice guys, hustle all the time and give 100%. They should preferably be able to play multiple positions and bat anywhere in the lineup. They don't need to have a role or a regular position even. These sound like model Wedge/Shapiro ballplayers, especially if they are self-motivating.
For pitchers we'll get some starters that have health issues and "roll the dice". For a bullpen we'll get some guys that have had one good year and "roll the dice".
Yeah, that's the ticket!
Indian Fever- Be a Believer!

[RuthMayBond]

For pitchers we'll get some starters that have health issues and "roll the dice". For a bullpen we'll get some guys that have had one good year and "roll the dice".
You're pretty quick to spend someone else's money

[Captain Cold Nose]

When Lou Holtz was coaching Notre Dame, an interviewer asked him how he motivated his players. He said "I don't motivate them, I just get rid of the ones that aren't motivated". If these guys aren't motivated by the time they reach the Major Leagues, they never will be. Unfortunately, it's not so easy to get rid of them at that level.

That's kind of funny considering Holtz now charges a good chunk of change as a "motivational speaker".

He's very good, btw.

[ol' aches and pains]

That's kind of funny considering Holtz now charges a good chunk of change as a "motivational speaker".

He's very good, btw.

Yeah, that is somewhat ironic.

[ol' aches and pains]

I take it all back...it must be just the players. Let's start all over and get some real go-getters that are nice guys, hustle all the time and give 100%. They should preferably be able to play multiple positions and bat anywhere in the lineup. They don't need to have a role or a regular position even. These sound like model Wedge/Shapiro ballplayers, especially if they are self-motivating.
For pitchers we'll get some starters that have health issues and "roll the dice". For a bullpen we'll get some guys that have had one good year and "roll the dice".
Yeah, that's the ticket!
Indian Fever- Be a Believer!

How's that Mark DeRosa for Chris Perez trade working out btw?

[westcoastbuckeye]

You know the Tribe is playing out the string at this point. So how about
we give Mike Sarbaugh the Akron coach a try his team is 55 and 30. If it
doesn't work bring in a big name for spring training. I like Eric Wedge but
I think he has had his chance.

[Captain Cold Nose]

You know the Tribe is playing out the string at this point. So how about
we give Mike Sarbaugh the Akron coach a try his team is 55 and 30. If it
doesn't work bring in a big name for spring training. I like Eric Wedge but
I think he has had his chance.

A Triple A coach just may shake things up. then they can scour the country looking for any and all players, including the penal leagues . . .

[aqib]

Wedge has MANY players WAY underperforming....so yeah...keep the players ...:noidea:noidea:noidea

Is it possible that Wedge is the reason players underperform. They start slow every year, could it be becuase he doesn't have them ready to play. Yes we know the 2009 Tribe are not the 98 Yankees but 2005 and 2007 showed that even when the team does have the horses to get it done they won't win with Wedge.

This by no means absolves Shapiro, I think he should go to given the amount of dead money on the payroll.

[RuthMayBond]

Is it possible that Wedge is the reason players underperform. They start slow every year, could it be becuase he doesn't have them ready to play.I didn't know it was his responsibility

<2007 showed that even when the team does have the horses to get it done they won't win with Wedge.>

If one win away from going to the World Series is "not winning"

[CaliforniaCajun]

18 runners LOB
worst record in baseball
Fire Wedge and take Shapiro with you.
60+ years is long enough

Cav

I think it will come down to firing both the manager and GM. This every other year success can't go on.

[aqib]

I didn't know it was his responsibility

<2007 showed that even when the team does have the horses to get it done they won't win with Wedge.>

If one win away from going to the World Series is "not winning"

Yes getting one win away from the World Series is not winning. We have had plenty of almosts in this town. The Browns, the Tribe, and now Cavs have given solid regular seasons with no titles. We haven't won anything in 45 years, up the road Pittsburgh has won two titles in the last 6 months.

Is it just a coincidence that the team starts slow EVERY year? The team is never ready to play at the end of spring training. That doesn't even include his in-game management (which is what cost the team the title in 2005).

[RuthMayBond]

Is it just a coincidence that the team starts slow EVERY year? The team is never ready to play at the end of spring training.
if 13-7, 17-8, 20-10 and 27-15 & 31-17 are "slow starts"

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2007-schedule-scores.shtml

[aqib]

April 2004: 9-13
April 2005: 9-14 (this was the year they won 93 games and missed the playoffs)
April 2006: 13-12
April 2007: 14-8 (Sabathia was 3-0 and they had an entire series postponed)
April 2008: 13-15 (Lee was 5-0 without him they are 8-15)

So yeah I would consider him having a record of slow starts.

[Eyeshade]

Good luck aqib, RM Bond is really Wedge's user name.:D

[RuthMayBond]

April 2004: 9-13
April 2005: 9-14 (this was the year they won 93 games and missed the playoffs)
April 2006: 13-12
April 2007: 14-8 (Sabathia was 3-0 and they had an entire series postponed)
April 2008: 13-15 (Lee was 5-0 without him they are 8-15)

So yeah I would consider him having a record of slow starts.Kinda like the Yankees of 77-80

[RuthMayBond]

Good luck aqib, RM Bond is really Wedge's user name.:D
You wish :nod::crossfingers::party:

[Eyeshade]

No, not really.

[RuthMayBond]

Good luck aqib, RM Bond is really Wedge's user name.:DIf it was, I wouldn't have so much trouble trying to get "him" to sign my clubhouse scorecard

[aqib]

To further this discussion Wedge is the 5th longest tenured manager (with his current team) in MLB three of the ones who have been there longer (LaRussa, Cox, and Scioscia) have won the World Series and the other Rod Gardenhire has a much higher winning percentage. He twice had teams that could have won it (05 and 07) and he didn't get it done.

[RuthMayBond]

To further this discussion Wedge is the 5th longest tenured manager (with his current team) in MLBMaybe that means something

"three of the ones who have been there longer (LaRussa, Cox, and Scioscia) have won the World Series"

<He twice had teams that could have won it (05 and 07) and he didn't get it done.>

I don't know where you're getting that the 05 team "could have won it" (or at least should have won it). Funny thing is, you guys keep wanting Hargrove.
Or all the postseasons that Bobby Cox lost, is he a good manager, or not?

[cavalier1968]

Are you saying Cheeze Wedge is as good as Bobby Cox?

Cav

[RuthMayBond]

Are you saying Cheeze Wedge is as good as Bobby Cox?

CavI'm saying you're trying to put words in my mouth :rolleyes:

[aqib]

Maybe that means something

"three of the ones who have been there longer (LaRussa, Cox, and Scioscia) have won the World Series"

<He twice had teams that could have won it (05 and 07) and he didn't get it done.>

I don't know where you're getting that the 05 team "could have won it" (or at least should have won it). Funny thing is, you guys keep wanting Hargrove.
Or all the postseasons that Bobby Cox lost, is he a good manager, or not?


The fact that he has been a manager longer then all but 4 others in says that Shapiro is either too loyal or two stubborn.

As for the 05 team, yes had they gotten to the playoffs (which they would have if they had better in game management) with the stocked pitching staff (the 5 starters started 158 out of 162 games) with Sabathia, Lee, and Millwood as your 1-2-3. You had the Howry-Wickman 8th-9th inning combo that even though they made things too interesting rarely lost a game when leading after 7.

[Eyeshade]

Aqib, no sweat man. Wedge and probably Shapiro will be outta here very soon after the season ends. Its just time- as has been stated over and over on this thread. The new ones may or may not do better, but ownership needs to sell tickets and a change may sell a few or get people hopeful- especially if the new manager and g.m. are familiar names. Even a new bench coach or returning veteran (Travis Fryman, Omar) might get folks interested in buying tickets. There was a lotta "buzz" when Lofton was back in '07 and a lotta folks bought tickets just to re-live the good old days. Sooooo......."The times, they are a-changin..."

[aqib]

Yeah eyeshade, I hope you're right. I still don't see the reason to wait so long. Times are tough in Cleveland we need a reason to feel good about something.

[RuthMayBond]

Yeah eyeshade, I hope you're right. I still don't see the reason to wait so long. Times are tough in Cleveland we need a reason to feel good about something.Well, there's a certain team with a four-game win streak

[aqib]

Well, there's a certain team with a four-game win streak

Wow! Now the Tribe is only 17 games below 500! I take back everything I said, lets get him an extension! This surge now gives us the 13th best record in the AL! TAKE THAT KC!

[Eyeshade]

Yep, it's a Wedge team. Stink the joint out for months until the pressure is off -then play decently. (I do think that they'll revert back to form).
The team's collective approach to the season just doesn't seem right- just like last year. Since a team reflects to some degree the personality of its manager, is it even remotely possible that Wedge's approach of "grinding" it out is to blame?
Regardless, I'm glad for Garko- he'll do well where he can play regularly and I hope the Giants give him that chance. He just wasn't Wedge material- like Brandon Phillips wasn't.

[RuthMayBond]

Wow! Now the Tribe is only 17 games below 500! I take back everything I said, lets get him an extension! This surge now gives us the 13th best record in the AL! TAKE THAT KC!Make that 16 games (and someone MIGHT be taking this a LITTLE too seriously :rolleyes:

[RuthMayBond]

Since a team reflects to some degree the personality of its manager, is it even remotely possible that Wedge's approach of "grinding" it out is to blame? I never use that phrase because I'm pretty certain you have it copyrighted.

[Real Tribe Fan]

I can see both sides of the argument.

Carmona, Westbrook, Lewis, Reyes, etc were all suppose to be "key figures" in the tribe's pitching staff this year, all have been injured. Is that Wedge's fault?....no it isn't.

BUT, on the other hand, it IS his responsibility to make adjustments when someone gets injured, goes into an ungody slump, isn't performing to standard, etc. I can't count the number of times that I have watched someone give up a gopher ball like they were throwing batting practice or strike out looking, or make a really bad base running mistake, etc and Wedge just sit's there with a "ho-hum", "oh well", or "who cares" look on his face.

SHOULD he have to motivate these millionaire "professional" baseball players.....NOT AT ALL........DOES he need to.....It sure looks like it. Pay me a million a year to play baseball....I will run the bases like I am being chased by a pack of rabid dogs every at bat.

Don't get me wrong, I am just as mad about the team's performance as any one else is. I had high expectations for this season too. I keep thinking that they can turn it around and it just isn't happening. But there are a lot of other folks and circumstances (injuries, lack of "i really want to keep my job and do the best I can") that are causing the season to go the way it has rather than JUST Wedge or Shapiro.

Bottom line do I think Wedge should be fired? Short answer is YES. Everything that happens or doesn't happen is not his fault, but I do think a fresh outlook on the team and what to do to fix it would help.

[aqib]

For the record, my stance on Wedge is not all about this year only. It is a judgement on his total body of work especially from 2005-today. I think Shapiro has a large share of blame and she should have to go to.

[RuthMayBond]

I think Shapiro has a large share of blame and she should have to go to.What does his wife have to do with this?

[aqib]

Shapiro's wife wouldn't have been dumb enough to give Wedge a 3 year extension when he already had 2 option years.

[RuthMayBond]

Shapiro's wife wouldn't have been dumb enough to give Wedge a 3 year extension when he already had 2 option years.We can try a female GM :think:

[Real Tribe Fan]

So for the sake of conversation....When / If the tribe does get rid of Wedge.......Who would you like to see hired as the new manager for the Indians?

[RuthMayBond]

So for the sake of conversation....When / If the tribe does get rid of Wedge.......Who would you like to see hired as the new manager for the Indians?I'd LIKE to see me hired as the new manager :rolleyes: Apparently I couldn't do any worse than Wedge

[Real Tribe Fan]

I'd LIKE to see me hired as the new manager :rolleyes: Apparently I couldn't do any worse than Wedge

LOL, well I would LIKE the job too. But I think we both know more or less where I was going with the question.

[RuthMayBond]

C'mon Wedge, DRIVE that horseless carriage :hissyfit:

[aqib]

C'mon Wedge, DRIVE that horseless carriage :hissyfit:

Again its not all about THIS season. Its about his total tenure as manager. You can give him an triple crown winners and the carriage isn't going anywhere.

[aqib]

We can try a female GM :think:

Sure there is that woman who was in the running for the Dodgers job not too long ago. ABS Anybody But Shapiro.

[RuthMayBond]

You can give him an triple crown winners and the carriage isn't going anywhere.I think he'd have to get a TC winner first.
BTW, TC Ted Williams 1947 team & Jimmie Foxx's 1933 team came in third.
TC Joe Medwick's 1937 team & Rogers Hornsby's 1922 & 1925 team & Nap Lajoie's 1901 team came in fourth.
TC Chuck Klein's 1933 team came in seventh.
What was your point again?

[aqib]

I think he'd have to get a TC winner first.
BTW, TC Ted Williams 1947 team & Jimmie Foxx's 1933 team came in third.
TC Joe Medwick's 1937 team & Rogers Hornsby's 1922 & 1925 team & Nap Lajoie's 1901 team came in fourth.
TC Chuck Klein's 1933 team came in seventh.
What was your point again?

My point is that Eric Wedge is not a good manager, and that while THIS season he doesn't have the players to get it done, his past track record in years in which he did have the players to get it done (05 and 07) the team came up short. As such, if the team ever wants to win (which after the recent moves I am not sure ownership cares) they would be best served by someone other then Wedge being the manager.

[Eyeshade]

One of my main gripes with Wedge is that he seems to have trouble dealing with talented but "colorful" players who are individuals. Guys like Lee and Phillips did not like him and the feeling was mutual. I'm sure that a lot of the egos on those mid 90's teams would have trouble in a Wedge clubhouse too. He and the organization need to learn to deal with talented prima donna types. Most great teams have 'em and find a way to make it work- i.e. Belle and Lofton on the Tribe with Grover and John Hart or Manny and Joe Torre. It's sad to think that Cobb and Ruth may not have been a good fit with this team because they would have been "difficult".

[EdTarbusz]

The thing that has irritated me the most about Wedge this season is his persistance on going with the 6 inning start and then the usual set-up roles out of the bullpen, even while the bullpen is a moiodern day arson squad. I was hoping that after a while, he would start going against the grain and demand more out of his starters.