BBF VC Progressive HoF Election: 1945

[Ace Venom]

Below is the final ballot for the 1940 VC Players Election. Voters can vote for as many candidates as they wish with 75% support required to elect a player. Voting will be open for five days, at which point we'll tabulate votes provided we have a quorum consisting of at least 12 of the 19 VC members having voted. Anyone is free to participate in the discussion and submit a ballot but only ballots from the 19 VC members will be counted.

New Rules
- The 1945 ballot will consist of:
1) Every player that previously made a final VC ballot;
2) Every player that received at least 1/3 support in the regular election;
3) Every player that lasted 15 years on the regular ballot.

-Voters can vote for as many players as they wish on the ballot and can also vote for up to 2 write-in candidates. If any write-in candidates receive at least 50% support, I'll list him on the next ballot. I will supply a master list so voters know who is eligible for write-ins

- If a player on the ballot does not receive at least 2 votes he will not appear on the following ballot (though the player will be eligible for write-in votes). So the 1950 ballot will consist of:
1) Every player from the 1945 ballot who received at least 2 votes;
2) Every newly eligible player that received 1/3 support in the regular election or lasted 15 years on the regular ballot; and
3) Any players who received at least 50% support as write-ins in the 1945 election.

1945 Final Ballot (33)
Chief Bender
Tommy Bond
George J. Burns
Jack Chesbro
Larry Corcoran
Gavvy Cravath
Lave Cross
Candy Cummings
Mike Donlin
Fred Dunlap
Johnny Evers
Dave Foutz
Larry Gardner
Mike Griffin
Harry Hooper
Charley Jones
Silver King
Johnny Kling
Ed Konetchy
Denny Lyons
Jim McCormick
Deacon McGuire
Ed McKean
Tip O'Neal
Del Pratt
Ed Reulbach
Jimmy Scheckard
Mike Tiernan
Joe Tinker
Hippo Vaughn
Bobby Veach
Ned Williamson
Joe Wood

PAST RESULTS

Players Elected by Veterans Committee (11)
Clark Griffith (1940)
Tommy Leach (1940)
Herman Long (1925)
Cal McVey (1920)
Dickey Pearce (1920)
Lip Pike (1920)
Hardy Richardson (1920)
Jimmy Ryan (1930)
Joe Start (1920)
Ezra Sutton (1920)
Mickey Welsh (1920)

1940 Final Results (14 Ballots Cast, 11 Votes Required for Election (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=87854)
1) Tommy Leach: 85.71% (12 Votes) - Elected
2) Clark Griffith: 78.57% (11 Votes) - Elected
3) Jimmy Scheckard: 64.29% (9 Votes)
t4) Charley Jones: 50.00% (7 Votes)
t4) Mike Tiernan: 50.00% (7 Votes)
6) Gavvy Gravath: 42.86% (6 Votes)
7) Jim McCormick: 28.57% (4 Votes)
8) Lave Cross: 14.29% (2 Votes)

1935 Final Results (14 Ballots Cast, 11 Votes Required for Election (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86576)
1) Clark Griffith: 71.43% (10 Votes)
2) Jimmy Sheckard: 57.14% (8 Votes)
3) Mike Tiernan: 50.00% (7 Votes)
4) Jim McCormick: 42.86% (6 Votes)
5) Charley Jones: 35.71% (5 Votes)
6) Lave Cross: 25.00% (4 Votes)
7) Tommy Bond: 18.75% (3 Votes)
8) Ned Williamson: 14.29% (2 Votes)
9) Jack Chesbro: 0% (0 Votes)

1930 Final Results (15 Ballots Cast, 12 Votes Required for Election (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85439)
1) Jimmy Ryan: 86.67% (12 Votes) - Elected
2) Clark Griffith: 66.67% (10 Votes)
3) Jim McCormick: 40.00% (6 Votes)
t4) Lave Cross: 33.33% (5 Votes)
t4) Charley Jones: 33.33% (5 Votes)
t4) Mike Tiernan: 33.33% (5 Votes)
7) Candy Cummings: 26.67% (4 Votes)
8) Jack Chesbro: 20.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Tommy Bond: 13.33% (2 Votes)
t9) Mike Griffin: 13.33% (2 Votes)
t9) Deacon McGuire: 13.33% (2 Votes)
t9) Ed McKean: 13.33% (2 Votes)
13) Tip O'Neill: 6.67% (1 Vote)

1925 Final Results (12 Ballots Cast, 9 Votes Required for Election (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84636)
1) Herman Long: 75.00% (9 Votes) - Elected
2) Jimmy Ryan: 66.67% (8 Votes)
3) Mike Tiernan: 50.00% (6 Votes)
t4) Candy Cummings: 41.67% (5 Votes)
t4) Charley Jones: 41.67% (5 Votes)
t4) Jim McCormick: 41.67% (5 Votes)
7) Ed McKean: 33.33% (4 Votes)
8) Mike Griffin: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t9) Dave Foutz: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t9) Silver King: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t9) Tommy Bond: 8.33% (1 Vote)
12) Fred Dunlap: 0% (0 Votes)

1920 Final Results (12 Ballots Cast, 9 Votes Required for Election (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83697)
t1) Hardy Richardson: 91.67% (11 Votes) - Elected
t1) Joe Start: 91.67% (11 Votes) - Elected
t2) Cal McVey: 83.33% (10 Votes) - Elected
t2) Ezra Sutton: 83.33% (10 Votes) - Elected
t5) Lip Pike: 75.00% (9 Votes) - Elected
t5) Mickey Welch: 75.00% (9 Votes ) - Elected
t7) Charley Jones: 58.33% (7 Votes)
t7) Mike Tiernan: 58.33% (7 Votes)
9) Jim McCormick: 50.00% (6 Votes)
10) Ed McKean: 33.33% (4 Votes)
11) Tommy Bond: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t12) Fred Dunlap: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t12) Denny Lyons: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t12) Ned Williamson: 8.33% (1 Vote)
*Dickey Pearce - Elected in Separate Pioneer/Player Election

Master List:
-Bolded player's names are on the final ballot.
-You can vote up to 2 players on the master list not included on the final ballot.

Master List
Ginger Beaumont
Chief Bender
Lu Blue
Tommy Bond
Bill Bradley
Kitty Bransfield
Charlie Buffinton
Jack Burdock
George J. Burns
Oyster Burns
Ray Chapman
Jack Chesbro
John Clapp
Boileryard Clarke
Larry Corcoran
Tommy Corcoran
Jack Coombs
Gavvy Cravath
Lave Cross
Candy Cummings
Nig Cuppy
Abner Dalyrmple
Harry Davis
Bill Dinneen
Mike Donlin
Bill Donovan
Jack Doyle
Fred Dunlap
Frank Dwyer
Johnny Evers
Duke Farrell
Bob Ferguson
Cherokee Fisher
Ray Fisher
Wes Fisler
Silver Flint
Davy Force
Russ Ford
Dave Foutz
Larry Gardner
Kid Gleason
Mike Griffin
Chick Hafey
Noodles Hahn
Ned Hanlon
Topsy Hartsel
Claude Hendrix
Buck Herzog
Solly Hofman
Harry Hooper
Dummy Hoy
Miller Huggins
Travis Jackson
Charley Jones
Fielder Jones
Joe Judge
Benny Kauff
George Kelly
Brickyard Kennedy
Silver King
Johnny Kling
Ed Konetchy
Arlie Latham
Sam Leever
Andy Leonard
Bobby Lowe
Dolf Luque
Denny Lyons
Fergy Malone
Bobby Mathews
Firpo Marberry
Rube Marquard
Jimmy McAleer
Dick McBride
Tommy McCarthy
John McGraw
Ed McKean
Levi Meyerle
Billy Nash
Jack O'Connor
Lefty O'Doul
Tip O'Neal
Dave Orr
Orval Overall
Herb Pennock
John Peters
Deacon Phillippe
Jack Powell
Del Pratt
Jack Quinn
Claude Ritchey
Ed Reulbach
Wilbert Robinson
Jack Rowe
Cy Seymour
Jimmy Scheckard
Chick Stahl
George Stone
George Stovall
Jesse Tannehill
Jeff Tesreau
Roy Thomas
Mike Tiernan
Joe Tinker
Terry Turner
Hippo Vaughn
Bobby Veach
John Warner
Doc White
Will White
Jim Whitney
Cy Williams
Jimmy Williams
Ned Williamson
Hooks Wiltsie
Joe Wood
Tom York
George Zettlein
Chief Zimmer

New Committee Proposal
Amid some debate that Negro League player be considered for the Progressive Hall, the 1950 VC ballot could include a separate ballot for Negro League players who would otherwise be considered for the regular election had the league been integrated. Given the fact that Rube Foster has already been elected as a contributor, it is reasonable that the Veterans Committee examines the career of significant Negro League players.
-A Negro League player becomes eligible for consideration by the Veterans Committee after being retired from active play for 5 years unless they meet special eligibility requirements (age 45 or death).
-Pioneers that played in the 19th century in a Major League may also be placed under consideration by the Veterans Committee.
-These proposals may be amended by the Veterans Committee for the purposes of adopting reasonable requirements for eligibility.

[jalbright]

Jimmy Sheckard.

I'm not a supporter of anybody on this list, really, but per my self-imposed mandate of voting for one, Sheckard gets the nod.

[jjpm74]

I've decided to fall onto the side of being inclusive rather than exclusive here.

Chief Bender
Lave Cross
Candy Cummings
Johnny Evers
Larry Gardner
Charley Jones
Johnny Kling
Ed Konetchy
Jim McCormick
Deacon McGuire
Ed McKean
Jimmy Scheckard
Mike Tiernan
Hippo Vaughn
Bobby Veach
Ned Williamson

I can see the HOF case for all these players in this specific project. From a 2009 standard, the only player on this list I support for the HOF is Deacon McGuire and his is a tough case. I'd be surprised if we elect anyone this cycle, however.

Ace Venom, do you want me to continue to stagger the VC contributors so that they fall a year after the VC players?

@The committee--I heard several rumors that there might be a Black player in the major leagues this year or next. Is it time to take a closer look at the Negro Leagues who warrant HOF consideration in 1950 or should we hold off and see how this pans out? On the contributor's side, where we look at baseball in general, black contributors have been considered almost since the inception of the VC Contributors Veteran's Committee. Personally, I've never supported Judge Landis' views and find them archaic given the role blacks played in WWII.

[Ace Venom]

Ace Venom, do you want me to continue to stagger the VC contributors so that they fall a year after the VC players?

Certainly I want you to keep running the contributor's election the way it's been run.

[SavoyBG]

Personally, I've never supported Judge Landis' views and find them archaic given the role blacks played in WWII.

Interesting. You mean that at one time you didn't find those views archaic?

[SavoyBG]

My ballot:

Chief Bender
Larry Corcoran
Charley Jones
Denny Lyons
John McGraw
Levi Meyerle


Also, Sheckard is spelled wrong.

[PVNICK]

Most of these guys got my support in the regular election

Bender
Cross
Evers
Griffin
Kling
Sheckard
Tiernan
Vaughn
Williamson

[jjpm74]

Interesting. You mean that at one time you didn't find those views archaic?

When Landis came to baseball, I thought that he handled the 8 who allegedly conspired to throw the World Series well. Minus that one thing and his banishment of several other crooked players, I think as a whole, Landis hurt baseball more than he helped it.

[KCGHOST]

An uninspiring ballot to say the least.

Sheckard
Tiernan

[leecemark]

None of the above. I will cast a write in/protest vote for John Henry Lloyd and Oscar Charleston though. They are so much better than the players who made the ballot that the injustice could not be clearer.

[Brad Harris]

Gavvy Cravath
Mike Donlin
Johnny Evers
Charley Jones
Johnny Kling
Ed Konetchy
Jimmy Sheckard
Mike Tiernan
Bobby Veach

Write-ins:
Dummy Hoy
Dolf Luque

[Cowtipper]

I'm going to pull a jjpm and be inclusive as well:

Tommy Bond
George J. Burns
Jack Chesbro
Gavvy Cravath
Lave Cross
Candy Cummings
Ed Konetchy
Jim McCormick
Deacon McGuire
Ed McKean
Del Pratt
Ed Reulbach
Jimmy Scheckard
Bobby Veach
Joe Wood

[Ace Venom]

I will cast a write in/protest vote for John Henry Lloyd and Oscar Charleston though.

And I think you just made the case for what I mentioned. This committee shouldn't have a problem electing Oscar Charleston and Pop Lloyd. For that matter, I don't think Grant Johnson would be that hard to push either.

My Ballot
Chief Bender
Tommy Bond
Jack Chesbro
Larry Corcoran
Lave Cross
Johnny Evers
Mike Griffin
Jim McCormick
Ed Reulbach
Jimmy Scheckard
Mike Tiernan
Joe Tinker

I aimed at being a bit inclusive here.

[Ace Venom]

"Protest votes:"
Dummy Hoy
Dolf Luque
Herb Pennock

We can only vote for up to two write ins. Which players do you want?

[Brad Harris]

We can only vote for up to two write ins. Which players do you want?

Drop Pennock. My bad. (Ballot edited accordingly.)

[Paul Wendt]

We usually get warm sunny weather for Arbor Day and today was no exception. If the evening regimen, plenty of fluids, is working for me as it should ...

We have elected Huggins and McGraw once and that makes them ineligible now.

If I am mistaken, please send me back to the refrigerator by telling me so.

If I am right, are there any others listed?

[jjpm74]

We usually get warm sunny weather for Arbor Day and today was no exception. If the evening regimen, plenty of fluids, is working for me as it should ...

We have elected Huggins and McGraw once and that makes them ineligible now.

If I am mistaken, please send me back to the refrigerator by telling me so.

If I am right, are there any others listed?

Both Miller Huggins and John McGraw are eligible. When DoubleX started the VC, he specified that here, unlike other projects, a person can be elected 2 times: 1 time as a player and 1 time as a contributor. That's why Al Spalding and Clark Griffith were elected by both committees.

[dgarza]

Chief Bender
Tommy Bond
George J. Burns
Larry Corcoran
Gavvy Cravath
Mike Donlin
Johnny Evers
Harry Hooper
Charley Jones
Silver King
Denny Lyons
Jim McCormick
Ed McKean
Tip O'Neal
Mike Tiernan
Joe Tinker
Bobby Veach

Write-In
Bobby Mathews
Levi Meyerle

[Ace Venom]

If I get enough votes by about 7:30 tomorrow night, I can close the voting and we could start discussing a potential Negro League ballot for 1950.

[AG2004]

My ballot

George J. Burns
Candy Cummings
Charley Jones
Jimmy Sheckard

[philkid3]

Bender, Chief
Sheckard, Jimmy
Tinker, Joe

[Paul Wendt]

(quoting myself) We usually get warm sunny weather for Arbor Day and today was no exception. If the evening regimen, plenty of fluids, is working for me as it should ...

Both Miller Huggins and John McGraw are eligible. When DoubleX started the VC, he specified that here, unlike other projects, a person can be elected 2 times: 1 time as a player and 1 time as a contributor. That's why Al Spalding and Clark Griffith were elected by both committees.

Thanks. During the last year I have occasionally confused all the "shadow hall projects".
At the same time, although I am now in central Maine, that is not yet far enough to get out of the summery heat. A big drop is predicted overnight but I'll work on a ballot to meet the evening deadline.

[Paul Wendt]

Normally I would vote for Fielder Jones and Roy Thomas from the Master List. They do not have any votes yet, so I would direct my attention to a bandwagon if I could find one, but where is it? Lloyd and Charleston have a couple of protest votes. Fine, but I don't see a value in joining in. McGraw has a legal vote but that is no bandwagon.

So let it be Jones and Thomas.

Gavy Cravath
Mike Griffin
Fielder Jones
Charley Jones
Jim McCormick
Jimmy Sheckard
Roy Thomas

Otherwise I have added Jim McCormick, previously eligible, owing to his big boost in the latest version of DERA. I have not added any of the newly eligible candidates.

There are others among the 33 nominees who are very close candidates in my opinion. All have at least two votes so I will simply make sure to register my vote for Jimmy Sheckard before the deadline.

Now back to the woods for an evening picnic.

[Ace Venom]

I have enough votes and it's past the deadline, so I'm going to call this vote closed. We received twelve votes from the VC and we elected Jimmy Sheckard with 83.33% of the vote. He should go in as a LF for the Chicago Cubs even though he played more seasons in Brooklyn. He played 1,001 games in with Chicago as opposed to 871 games with Brooklyn. He also had more plate appearances with the Cubs and he was part of that Cubs dynasty in the early part of the century.

1945 Final Results (12 Ballots Cast, 9 Votes Required for Election)
1) Jimmy Sheckard: 83.33% (10 Votes) - Elected
2) Mike Tiernan: 50.00% (6 Votes)
t3) Chief Bender: 41.67% (5 Votes)
t3) Johnny Evvers: 41.67% (5 Votes)
t3) Charley Jones: 41.67% (5 Votes)
t3) Jim McCormick: 41.67% (5 Votes)
t7) Gavvy Cravath: 33.33% (4 Votes)
t7) Lave Cross: 33.33% (4 Votes)
t9) Tommy Bond: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) George J. Burns: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Candy Cummings: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Mike Griffin: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Johnny Kling: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Ed Konetchy: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Ed McKean: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Joe Tinker: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t9) Bobby Veach: 25.00% (3 Votes)
t18) Jack Chesbro: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t18) Larry Corcoran: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t18) Mike Donlin: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t18) Deacon McGuire: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t18) Ed Reulbach: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t18) Hippo Vaughn: 16.67% (2 Votes)
t18) Ned Williamson: 16.67% (2 Votes)
Cutoff Point for Next Year's Final Ballot
t25) Larry Gardner: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t25) Harry Hooper: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t25) Dummy Hoy: 8.33% (1 Vote) - Write-in
t25) Fielder Jones: 8.33% (1 Vote) - Write-in
t25) Silver King: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t25) Dolf Luque: 8.33% (1 Vote) - Write-in
t25) Denny Lyons: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t25) Roy Thomas: 8.33% (1 Vote) - Write-in
t25) Joe Wood: 8.33% (1 Vote)
t34) Fred Dunlap: 0.00%
t34) Dave Foutz: 0.00%

I received no opposition to electing Negro League players by the VC, so I am proposing we have our regular ballot and a special Negro League ballot in a separate thread. We could also hold a special VC meeting in 1949 to elect Negro League players. Players would have to be retired from Negro League play for a minimum of five years, but could become eligible if the player is dead.

[jjpm74]

There were 13 ballots cast. Not 12. It doesn't affect the fact that Jimmy Sheckard was elected however. He was elected with 76.9% of the vote. Sheckard being voted in is a bit of a surprise.

As for the the Negro Leagues, 1952 is a better year to approach them than your proposed year, IMO as it does not coincide with a regular VC election or a VC contributor's election.

I propose we put together a master list and revisit the NeL candidates every 5 years; adding anyone who is newly eligible along the way. This would be very progressive from a 1945 standpoint, IMO.

[Ace Venom]

There were 13 ballots cast. Not 12. It doesn't affect the fact that Jimmy Sheckard was elected however. He was elected with 76.9% of the vote. Sheckard being voted in is a bit of a surprise.

13 ballots cast, but only 12 from members of the VC. SavoyBG is not on the list that DoubleX gave me.

acevenom
ag2004
blueblood
brad harris
captain cold nose
cowtipper
dgarza
DoubleX
freakshow
henrich
Jalbright
jjpm74
KCGhost
Leecemark
mwiggins
Paul Wendt
philkid3
pvnick
Windy City Fan

I added myself into the list with DoubleX's blessing. So I only got 12 voters from the VC. I cross referenced the votes with the list and counted only those votes with the committee members.

I propose we put together a master list and revisit the NeL candidates every 5 years; adding anyone who is newly eligible along the way. This would be very progressive from a 1945 standpoint, IMO.

That's a possibility. It could either be 1949 or 1952 to prevent any interference with regular VC and contributor's elections.

[jjpm74]

I added myself into the list with DoubleX's blessing. So I only got 12 voters from the VC. I cross referenced the votes with the list and counted only those votes with the committee members.

Double check with Doublex. SavoyBG is on the VC contributor's committee (and if he's intrerested in this one, IMO he is an active knowledgeable contributor in this project who deserves to be here).



That's a possibility. It could either be 1949 or 1952 to prevent any interference with regular VC and contributor's elections.

Either date works for me. What does everyone else think?

[leecemark]

--13 is a bad number for a committee that requires 75% agreement. You effectively push the percentage up by adding an odd number of voters.
--I would like to see the first Negro League election at the earliest possible date. 1949 would be okay. 1947 would be even better.

[Ace Venom]

Double check with Doublex. SavoyBG is on the VC contributor's committee (and if he's intrerested in this one, IMO he is an active knowledgeable contributor in this project who deserves to be here).

I can certainly invite him to join seeing as we only had 12 of 19 report to vote. I would rather tally votes at even numbers.

--13 is a bad number for a committee that requires 75% agreement. You effectively push the percentage up by adding an odd number of voters.
--I would like to see the first Negro League election at the earliest possible date. 1949 would be okay. 1947 would be even better.

I hear you on the first point. Voter turnouts have been lower overall lately. 1947 actually sounds like a pretty good round year to get that ballot going because it would take place after the contributor's vote.

[jjpm74]

Adding him would make it a nice round 20.

[jjpm74]

--13 is a bad number for a committee that requires 75% agreement. You effectively push the percentage up by adding an odd number of voters.
--I would like to see the first Negro League election at the earliest possible date. 1949 would be okay. 1947 would be even better.

That's why on the neighboring contributor's VC, the number of votes a contributor needs is 9 whether we get 9 participants or 14 participants. Having a set number makes it a lot easier and flow better, IMO (here, you'd obviously not be able to do this with a 20 person committee; several of whom have been MIA for some time and several of whom don't frequent the site that often).

[SavoyBG]

13 ballots cast, but only 12 from members of the VC. SavoyBG is not on the list that DoubleX gave me.

acevenom
ag2004
blueblood
brad harris
captain cold nose
cowtipper
dgarza
DoubleX
freakshow
henrich
Jalbright
jjpm74
KCGhost
Leecemark
mwiggins
Paul Wendt
philkid3
pvnick
Windy City Fan



An absolute farce that only 12 of 19 voters can show up and vote.

[Ace Venom]

An absolute farce that only 12 of 19 voters can show up and vote.

I straddled it over the weekend with hopes that it would attract more of the voters, but I realize some people have been MIA or were busy for whatever reason. Some restructuring may be in order.

Before the 1947 election, I'm going to have a preliminary thread to help construct a master list of Negro League players. I can start getting a master list together, but it probably wouldn't be the most complete one. I have a set of rules ready, so feel free to opine so they can be modified if necessary.

BBF VC Progressive Election Negro League Committee (NLC)
1. Who is eligible?
-Players who had significant careers in the Negro Leagues who have retired five years prior to the first election are eligible for consideration.
-Players who have died during their wait for eligibility can have the waiting period waived. Also, a player who has had a significant career interrupted by death or sidelined by illness can be considered.
-Players can also have their five year wait waived if they are 45 at the time of the election cycle (age rule).
-Players who had some major/minor league experience prior to the gentleman's agreement can also be considered.
2. Rules for Election
-A candidate must receive 75% of the votes cast in order to be elected.
-Members of the VC can vote for however many candidates they wish.
-In the first election year (1947), no candidates are dropped from the final ballot and are free to be reconsidered equally with incoming candidates for the second year (1952). However, players who receive less than 2 votes in the 1952 election will be dropped from consideration on the final ballot. They will remain on the master list.

That's what I have. I'll start putting together master lists for 1947 when the time comes.

[Brad Harris]

2. Rules for Election
-A candidate must receive 75% of the votes cast in order to be elected.
-Members of the VC can vote for however many candidates they wish.
-In the first election year (1947), no candidates are dropped from the final ballot and are free to be reconsidered equally with incoming candidates for the second year (1952). However, players who receive less than 2 votes in the 1952 election will be dropped from consideration on the final ballot. They will remain on the master list.
If the eligible candidate pool is going to consist solely of "negro leaguers," then why are we going to be dropping players from consideration routinely? How many incoming candidates are there really going to be who meet the description here? Or will these candidates eventually merge with the MLB veterans?

[Ace Venom]

If the eligible candidate pool is going to consist solely of "negro leaguers," then why are we going to be dropping players from consideration routinely? How many incoming candidates are there really going to be who meet the description here? Or will these candidates eventually merge with the MLB veterans?

That may eventually happen. I may just let people pick any candidate from a master list for the first few elections. If it becomes too redundant, I may just merge the lists. I expect the first two or three classes to be large as certain players become eligible.

Breaking from 1945, the obvious elephant in the room is that Negro League talent declined after integration and essentially entered minor league status. The whole reason I want to do a separate ballot initially is to get the obvious best from this period into the progressive hall. You're looking at an election cycle of 1947, 1952 and 1957. By 1962, we should have most of this era covered with a few exceptions.

[jalbright]

I straddled it over the weekend with hopes that it would attract more of the voters, but I realize some people have been MIA or were busy for whatever reason. Some restructuring may be in order.

Before the 1947 election, I'm going to have a preliminary thread to help construct a master list of Negro League players. I can start getting a master list together, but it probably wouldn't be the most complete one. I have a set of rules ready, so feel free to opine so they can be modified if necessary.

BBF VC Progressive Election Negro League Committee (NLC)
1. Who is eligible?
-Players who had significant careers in the Negro Leagues who have retired five years prior to the first election are eligible for consideration.
-Players who have died during their wait for eligibility can have the waiting period waived. Also, a player who has had a significant career interrupted by death or sidelined by illness can be considered.
-Players can also have their five year wait waived if they are 45 at the time of the election cycle (age rule).
-Players who had some major/minor league experience prior to the gentleman's agreement can also be considered.
2. Rules for Election
-A candidate must receive 75% of the votes cast in order to be elected.
-Members of the VC can vote for however many candidates they wish.
-In the first election year (1947), no candidates are dropped from the final ballot and are free to be reconsidered equally with incoming candidates for the second year (1952). However, players who receive less than 2 votes in the 1952 election will be dropped from consideration on the final ballot. They will remain on the master list.

That's what I have. I'll start putting together master lists for 1947 when the time comes.

I'll give you what I've got now:

Eligible players in my project on or before 1947

Turkey Stearnes
John Beckwith
Judy Johnson
Mule Suttles
Jud Wilson
Dick Lundy
Andy Cooper
Oscar Charleston
Alejandro Oms
Bullet Joe Rogan
Cristobal Torriente
Dobie Moore
Smoky Joe Williams
Sol White
Frank Warfield
Ben Taylor
Louis Santop
Dick Redding
Spotswood Poles
Jose Mendez
Pop Lloyd
Rube Foster
Home Run Johnson
Pete Hill
Frank Grant


Those players who become eligible in my project after 1947 (some may make your 1947 list):

Cool Papa Bell
Biz Mackey
Willie Foster
Josh Gibson
Martin Dihigo
Perucho Cepeda
Buck Leonard
Hilton Smith
Ray Brown
Willie Wells
Satchel Paige
Quincy Trouppe
Bus Clarkson
Willard Brown
Larry Doby
Minnie Minoso
Jackie Robinson
Roy Campanella
Don Newcombe
Monte Irvin
Luke Easter

[Ace Venom]

I collected a much larger ballot than yours. I also wanted to make Josh Gibson eligible in 1947 due to the fact that he died that year. Once you start getting into Major League experience, they're going under regular ballot consideration. One of the provisions I'll be urging voters to do on the regular ballot is to take Negro League statistics into consideration (see Satchel Paige).

[jalbright]

I can understand a larger group, but these are the guys who either are in the HOF or garnered support here at BBF. If the list is larger than the 94 considered for the HOF in 2006 (plus those already in at that point), then I'd say your list is getting overly large (though there may be room for specific inclusions, like Will Jackman).

[Ace Venom]

My master list has 76 players total, which I think is pretty fair considering the span of time we're talking about. Obviously not all these players would garner support, so a preliminary voting round would probably be necessary. The master list would still be available for write-in votes.

[jalbright]

My master list has 76 players total, which I think is pretty fair considering the span of time we're talking about. Obviously not all these players would garner support, so a preliminary voting round would probably be necessary. The master list would still be available for write-in votes.

Would all of those 76 be eligible in 1947? My guess is there's a few who would miss that date. If there were 20 or so who wouldn't make that date, the lists would work--though perhaps the minimum vote would have to become the second election without more than x% or x votes.

[Ace Venom]

Would all of those 76 be eligible in 1947? My guess is there's a few who would miss that date. If there were 20 or so who wouldn't make that date, the lists would work--though perhaps the minimum vote would have to become the second election without more than x% or x votes.

All would be eligible, but you're free to double check my master list. I didn't take managerial or other contributions beyond playing beyond the playing career for consideration. Note that Josh Gibson falls under the death rule. Most of these people will be weeded out anyway.

Newton H. Allen
John Beckwith
Clifford Bell
Emmet Bowman
Oscar Charleston
Phillip Cockrell
Andy Cooper
Jimmie Crutchfield
Leon Daniels
Saul Davis
Felix Delgado
Bingo DeMoss
Lou Dials
William Dismukes
John Donaldson
William Drake
Rube Foster
Willie Foster
John “Bud” Fowler
Floyd “Jelly” Gardner
Josh Gibson
George Giles
Frank Grant
Arthur “Rats” Henderson
Pete Hill
Bill Holland
Bill Jackman
Fats Jenkins
George “Chappie” Johnson
Grant “Home Run” Johnson
William “Judy” Johnson
Milfred Laurent
Scrip Lee
Frank Leland
John Henry “Pop” Lloyd
Dave Malarcher
Oliver Marcell
Dan McClellan
Jose Mendez
Alonzo Mitchell
Bill Monroe
Alejandro Oms
Ted Page
Jap Payne
Bill Pettus
Bruce Petway
Spot Poles
Cumberland Posey
Richard “Cannonball Dick” Redding
William Robinson
Bullet Rogan
Merven “Red” Ryan
Louis Santop
Chino Smith
Clarence Smith
Norman “Turkey” Stearnes
Jake Stephens
George Stovey
Ben Taylor
C.I. Taylor
“Steel Arm Johnny” Taylor
Cristobal Torriente
Moses “Fleet” Walker
Frank Warfield
Chaney White
Sol White
Frank Wickware
Waibishaw Wiley
Clarence Williams
George Williams
Smokey Joe Williams
George Wilson
Jesse “Nip” Winters

[jalbright]

I can see where you're going with Quincy Trouppe and Satchel Paige. I'd like to see Bus Clarkson get a chance, though I doubt he'll garner much support outside of my own.

We also elected Perucho Cepeda (Orlando, the "Baby Bull"'s ("Peruchin") father). I'd put him in this list, but that's your call. If you'd rather he and others (like Omar Linares) who played exclusively outside USA based leagues all go when the Japanese are considered, I fully understand.

[Ace Venom]

It's a bit early in these cycles to even start considering NPB players. I've given thought to Mexican and Cuban League players, but it's a tough call right now considering some of the players on my list have spent time in the Cuban Leagues. It might be something worth discussing in the future, but not for 1947. I may have to do a preliminary round to trim down my master list to a workable final ballot. Those are a lot of names.

As far as Perucho Cepeda goes, he doesn't even fall under eligibility rules yet because he retired in 1950. Certainly these players will enter under consideration when we get to dealing with baseball leagues outside of the United States.

[jalbright]

I think Double X was thinking about the 80's (after Oh retired, maybe like 1985) at the earliest for the Japanese, maybe even as late as 2000. Someone could search the early threads for some indications he may have left in that regard.