Most full seasons over .300 and no Hall of Fame

[gman5431]

My dad and i were talking and a question came up - are there any players who had 10 or more full seasons batting at or over .300 that arent in the Hall of Fame. I would define a full season as one in which the player had enough ABs to qualify for the batting title. Also, lets on include players who are actually eligible for the HOF (but for discussion, we can bring non eligible players up and the number of .300 seasons).

I did a little research and i think i actually found one. And one who had 8 seasons.

G Man

[ipitch]

George Van Haltren had 12.
10 for Dixie Walker.

[RuthMayBond]

Not always sure what qualifies:
Riggs Stephenson?
Babe Herman?
Ken Williams?

[gman5431]

George Van Haltren had 12.
10 for Dixie Walker.

George Van Haltren did in fact have 12, but only 1 in the modern era (1901+). I should have added that to the question, sorry.

Dixie Walker is a hella of a find - he did in fact have 10. That is correct answer #1.

G Man

[RuthMayBond]

George Van Haltren did in fact have 12, but only 1 in the modern era (1901+). I should have added that to the question, sorry.

Dixie Walker is a hella of a find - he did in fact have 10. That is correct answer #1.

G Man
I'm glad that, even if he wasn't the Hall of Fame's cherce,
at least he was the people's

[RuthMayBond]

Mark Grace?

[gman5431]

Not always sure what qualifies, but I've got to think Pete Browning is up there
Riggs Stephenson?
Babe Herman?
Ken Williams?

As far as who qualifies, its the current rule of 3.1 plate appearances per game. So for the 154 game scheduled they needed 478 plate appearances to qualify for the batting title.

Pete Browning is prior to 1901+ modern era, once again, sorry i should have mentioned that in my question. Dont think he has enough anyhow.

Riggs Stephenson only had enough plate appearances 4 times so he only has 4.

Babe Herman had 7. So did Ken Williams.

G Man

[gman5431]

I'm glad that, even if he wasn't the Hall of Fame's cherce,
at least he was the people's

I'm not following?

G Man

[RuthMayBond]

As far as who qualifies, its the current rule of 3.1 plate appearances per game. So for the 154 game scheduled they needed 478 plate appearances to qualify for the batting title.

Pete Browning is prior to 1901+ modern era, once again, sorry i should have mentioned that in my question. Dont think he has enough anyhow.

Riggs Stephenson only had enough plate appearances 4 times so he only has 4.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#min_req

[gman5431]

Mark Grace?

Ok, for a 162 game schedule the player needs 503 plate appearances to qualify for the batting title.

Mark Grace only has 9 - really close because he has one season that qualifies as far as enough PAs but hit .298. A wisker short brother!

G Man

[RuthMayBond]

I'm not following?

G ManYou've never heard about his nickname, have you?

[gman5431]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#min_req

Thanks for the info and i know the requirements to be eligible have changed but lets apply the modern standard. Even if we apply the old standard, how many does that give them?

G Man

[gman5431]

You've never heard about his nickname, have you?

I hadnt but just Wikipedia-ed it and i got it now. Very good reference.

G Man

[RuthMayBond]

Ok, for a 162 game schedule the player needs 503 plate appearances to qualify for the batting title.

Mark Grace only has 9 - really close because he has one season that qualifies as far as enough PAs but hit .298. A wisker short brother!

G Man

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/sounds/missedit.wav

[gman5431]

Haha, that was a nice guess though. I hadnt even thought of him. Dixie Walker was a good get and i looked up his HOF voting and i'm shocked it was that low. Anyways, i have one other guy who applies.... there may be more.

G MAn

[RuthMayBond]

Surprised that Mattingly wasn't a little higher

[gman5431]

Alright, i'm going to give this question over the weekend. Hopefully some people can find some additional answers including the one i got.

G Man

[Utter Chaos]

Here are 3 more.

Stuffy McInnis - 1911,1912,1913,1914,1915,1917,1919,1921,1922,1923
Plus seasons of .295, .291, and .297.

Jake Daubert - 1911,1912,1913,1914,1915,1916,1918,1920,1921,1922
Only had 445 plate appearances in 1918 but the Dodgers only played 126 games so he had more than enough PA to qualify.

Al Oliver - 1972,1974,1976,1977,1978,1979,1980,1981,1982,1983
In 1976 he was 143-443 for .323 in 481 plate appearances. However rule 10.23 says EXCEPTION: However, if there is any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest, if he were charged with the required number of plate appearances or official at bats, then that player shall be awarded the batting championship or slugging championship.. If you add 21 hitless at bats to Oliver's stats he ends up 143-464 for an adjusted average of .308.

[BigRon]

As far as who qualifies, its the current rule of 3.1 plate appearances per game. So for the 154 game scheduled they needed 478 plate appearances to qualify for the batting title.

Pete Browning is prior to 1901+ modern era, once again, sorry i should have mentioned that in my question. Dont think he has enough anyhow.

Riggs Stephenson only had enough plate appearances 4 times so he only has 4.

Babe Herman had 7. So did Ken Williams.

G Man

Not a big deal, but the qualification for 154 team games played is 477 PA- not 478, and for 162 team games played, 502 PA- not 503.

[gman5431]

Not a big deal, but the qualification for 154 team games played is 477 PA- not 478, and for 162 team games played, 502 PA- not 503.

I thought you had to round up.

G Man

[gman5431]

Here are 3 more.

Stuffy McInnis - 1911,1912,1913,1914,1915,1917,1919,1921,1922,1923
Plus seasons of .295, .291, and .297.

Jake Daubert - 1911,1912,1913,1914,1915,1916,1918,1920,1921,1922
Only had 445 plate appearances in 1918 but the Dodgers only played 126 games so he had more than enough PA to qualify.

Al Oliver - 1972,1974,1976,1977,1978,1979,1980,1981,1982,1983
In 1976 he was 143-443 for .323 in 481 plate appearances. However rule 10.23 says EXCEPTION: However, if there is any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest, if he were charged with the required number of plate appearances or official at bats, then that player shall be awarded the batting championship or slugging championship.. If you add 21 hitless at bats to Oliver's stats he ends up 143-464 for an adjusted average of .308.


Al Oliver was the guy i had, so good find on that. Also, nice picks on the other two guys. So that gives us 4 total now. How come the Dodgers only played 126 games in 1918?

G Man

[bobbyboy]

Al Oliver was the guy i had, so good find on that. Also, nice picks on the other two guys. So that gives us 4 total now. How come the Dodgers only played 126 games in 1918?

G Man


The 1918 baseball season was cut short when America actively entered World War I.

[bobbyboy]

I'm glad that, even if he wasn't the Hall of Fame's cherce,
at least he was the people's

His nickname was given to him by the Brooklyn fans, he was called " The peoples cherce".

[gman5431]

The 1918 baseball season was cut short when America actively entered World War I.

I had no idea. Thanks,

G Man

[brett]

The guy who popped into my head first was Al Oliver.

His case is a little interesting.

On paper he looks like he has 9 (including '81 where he qualified in a strike shortened season). Then we have '76 where he missed with 481 PA's and a .323 average, but he could have gone hitless through 21 at bats and still finished at .308. That makes 10! But alas, in 1983 his .300 is rounded up from .2997 which means that it officially is not .300. An official .300 season can not be rounded up. (I remember reading about that when Reggie went .300 on paper in '80.) That Oliver 9, plus a miss by .0003. Also came a few PAs short in '84.

So with Oliver we have the "completion of PA deficit" rule giving him a 10th, but the "can't round up to an official .300 (or .400)" taking it away.

Edgar Martinez has 10, and I think the voters will be split on him.

Todd Helton also has 10.

Barry Bonds has 11, so if he gets snubbed...

[brett]

Here are 3 more.

Stuffy McInnis - 1911,1912,1913,1914,1915,1917,1919,1921,1922,1923
Plus seasons of .295, .291, and .297.

Jake Daubert - 1911,1912,1913,1914,1915,1916,1918,1920,1921,1922
Only had 445 plate appearances in 1918 but the Dodgers only played 126 games so he had more than enough PA to qualify.

Al Oliver - 1972,1974,1976,1977,1978,1979,1980,1981,1982,1983
In 1976 he was 143-443 for .323 in 481 plate appearances. However rule 10.23 says EXCEPTION: However, if there is any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest, if he were charged with the required number of plate appearances or official at bats, then that player shall be awarded the batting championship or slugging championship.. If you add 21 hitless at bats to Oliver's stats he ends up 143-464 for an adjusted average of .308.


Sorry I rushed past this one. Oliver unfortunately loses '83 because you can't round up to an official .300.

[ipitch]

Al Oliver - 1972,1974,1976,1977,1978,1979,1980,1981,1982,1983
In 1976 he was 143-443 for .323 in 481 plate appearances. However rule 10.23 says EXCEPTION: However, if there is any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest, if he were charged with the required number of plate appearances or official at bats, then that player shall be awarded the batting championship or slugging championship.. If you add 21 hitless at bats to Oliver's stats he ends up 143-464 for an adjusted average of .308.

No big deal, but the rule says "if there is any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest..."

Since Oliver's average wouldn't be the highest, I don't think rule 10.23 would be used officially. FWIW, he doesn't appear among the official(?) 1976 NL batting leaders.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/1976-batting-leaders.shtml

[brett]

No big deal, but the rule says "if there is any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest..."

Since Oliver's average wouldn't be the highest, I don't think rule 10.23 would be used officially. FWIW, he doesn't appear among the official(?) 1976 NL batting leaders.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/1976-batting-leaders.shtml

BBRef does include guys who would have been in the top 10, but Oliver would only get credit for .308 on the leaderboard.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#min_req

Batting Average, OBP, Slugging Percentage, OPS

Prior to 1920, a player must have appeared in 60% of the team's games to qualify for a title. This number was rounded to the nearest integer.
From 1920-1937 (unclear, and previously thought to be until 1944), a player must have appeared in 100 games.
From 1938-1944, the AL used 400 at bats and the NL stayed with 100 games as found by Paul Rivard of SABR.
From 1945-1956, a player must have 2.6 at bats per team game. Note however, that from 1951-1954 a player could lead if they still led after the necessary number of hitless at bats were added to their at bat total.
From 1957 to the present, a player must have 3.1 plate appearances per team game. Note however, that from 1967 to the present a player could lead if they still led after the necessary number of hitless plate appearances were added to their at bat total.

[Buzzaldrin]

Shoeless Joe had nine. Minnie Minoso, Buddy Myer, and Harvey Kuenn had 8. Can't think of any more tens from post 1901.

[gman5431]

Oliver is an interesting case indeed. Its really pulling hairs there.

I think Edgar Martinez will be left out, probably rightfully so as he played a lot of DH. I think Helton will eventually get in, same with Bonds. But none of those 3 are eligible yet anyhow. But still good fodder.

G Man

[Utter Chaos]

There is one "non eligible" player, with 15 seasons over .300, that hasn't been mentioned. Some guy named Pete Rose.

[BiZmaRK]

My dad and i were talking and a question came up - are there any players who had 10 or more full seasons batting at or over .300 that arent in the Hall of Fame. I would define a full season as one in which the player had enough ABs to qualify for the batting title. Also, lets on include players who are actually eligible for the HOF (but for discussion, we can bring non eligible players up and the number of .300 seasons).

I did a little research and i think i actually found one. And one who had 8 seasons.

G Man
I'll venture to guess it's Pete Rose.

[BiZmaRK]

Shoeless Joe had nine. Minnie Minoso, Buddy Myer, and Harvey Kuenn had 8. Can't think of any more tens from post 1901.

Surprised you missed Pete Rose. Someone else mentioned he had 15 + .300 seasons. And he isn't in the Hall of Fame.