Mike Epstien

[3up3down]

I'm looking to get my son, 16, a hitting instruction DVD and heard that Mike Epstien is one of the best.

Looking at his website I can't decide which would be a better buy.. maybe you guys can help.

Do We Teach What We Really See?

or

How To "Hit" Your Potential In Just 7 Days

Any idea which is better and covers more of the mechanics of hitting?

[Jake Patterson]

I'm looking to get my son, 16, a hitting instruction DVD and heard that Mike Epstien is one of the best.

Looking at his website I can't decide which would be a better buy.. maybe you guys can help.

Do We Teach What We Really See?

or

How To "Hit" Your Potential In Just 7 Days

Any idea which is better and covers more of the mechanics of hitting?

There are several Epstein supporters here. You should be able to get a definative answer.

[3up3down]

If anyone doesn't think that Epstien is the best could you say who you do think is the best?

Thanks

[Erik]

If anyone doesn't think that Epstien is the best could you say who you do think is the best?

Thanks




3up3down,

IMO Setpro has the best hitting organized information. The "Teach Your Son How to Hit The #$%!! Out Of the Ball" is a gold mine.




EL:flow::flow:

[rkbenn]

I'm looking to get my son, 16, a hitting instruction DVD and heard that Mike Epstien is one of the best.

Looking at his website I can't decide which would be a better buy.. maybe you guys can help.

Do We Teach What We Really See?

or

How To "Hit" Your Potential In Just 7 Days

Any idea which is better and covers more of the mechanics of hitting?

don't get the 7 days. do we teach what we see is a good one. simple and great for the beginner IMO. i believe it depend on how advanced your son is.

[skipper5]

I viewed one of the Epstein videos, it may have been "Do we teach what we see?", and it was extremely drawn out, with Epstein giving a long boring lecture that could have been condensed into 10 min. of information that definitely was useful.

Considering his stature, his other videos must be much more to the point. (Or do most hitting videos have a lot of filler in them?)

[3up3down]

He has a pretty good swing but doesn't understand what it is that makes a good swing.

He wants to learn what he can focus on to make his swing better.

[mudvnine]

There are several Epstein supporters here. You should be able to get a definative answer.

Whatever happened to "cally", I thought he was a great resource for Epstein's material and even perfected the areas that I thought Mike somewhat "missed"?

I've only seen one of Epstein's DVDs, but by not viewing the rest of his stuff, reserve giving my opinion one way or the other . . . yeah, I know . . . I choked. :choke: :waving

[HYP]

I would get the "On target Series"

[hitnpeas]

3up3down,

IMO Setpro has the best hitting organized information. The "Teach Your Son How to Hit The #$%!! Out Of the Ball" is a gold mine.




EL:flow::flow:


So you have seen the Epstein DVD's and feel the Setpro DVD is the way to go? What makes it so far superior to the others available? Specifically the Epstein DVD's?

[FanRuth714]

If anyone doesn't think that Epstien is the best could you say who you do think is the best?

Thanks

I prefer Dr. Yeager.

Epstein's material does not correctly address proper weight shift-He does not understand the purpose of the stride.

[gameth]

I prefer Dr. Yeager.

Epstein's material does not correctly address proper weight shift-He does not understand the purpose of the stride.

There is no purpose to the stride. Its more of a style then anything else. Don't believe me? Think you have to stride? Ask the Cardinals #5 if he thinks the stride is needed for weight shift!


How to hit your potential in 7 days is very technical. It breaks down the swings how and why. It is a cd-rom book. I bought this first and I felt it was worth the money and got me educated on the mechanics.

Do we teach what we see is two vhs on a dvd. Part one is the long boring seminar that others are talking about, but I thought it was decent.

Part two is Mike going through the drills with a HS player 15 years old I believe. It was very good for seeing how the drills are done and how to explain them to the student/hitter. I bought this second and was glad I did.

The cd-rom was good for education, the dvd was good for seeing the drills in action. Both went together nicely. I have not seen the on target stuff. I will purchase those next perhaps.


Epstein now has a paid membership for his site that is like $10 a month and includes tips and drills with a monthly newletter that are not on the dvds from what I have read. I still am debating on that though.

[FanRuth714]

There is no purpose to the stride.

And thus your hitting knowledge is exposed.



IMO Setpro has the best hitting organized information. The "Teach Your Son How to Hit The #$%!! Out Of the Ball" is a gold mine.

Erik L?---you can't be serious.....???????????????.

[CoachL4]

There definitely is a purpose to the stride and you can go on any website including O'Leary's to see that Pujols strides.

I like Epstein's stuff on bat path and I pay the $10 a month (which all I've gotten so far is a 10 minute commercial for his new bat and an email newsletter) but I really would like to see stuff from Epstein about load, weight transfer, etc.. and not just hear the answer from people saying "thats style".

[Ursa Major]

don't get the 7 days. do we teach what we see is a good one. simple and great for the beginner IMO. i believe it depend on how advanced your son is.If he's 16 years old, he'd better not be a beginner. :sigh:

Of the top level people whose material is advanced enough for a 16 year old (i.e., forget about Mankin), I bear allegiance to and bias toward Englishbey's materials (at www.EnglishbeyHitting.com). But, people I respect also like Yeager's materials. I haven't done a complete review of Epstein's DVD's but, from what I've heard, what's actually on the DVD's is not quite advanced enough and has some weak cues that would keep me from recommending it for kids that old.

Believe it or not, it would help to have you post a video of a couple of the kid's swings. Some gurus may be better for addressing certain swing issues than others.

[Erik]

Erik L?---you can't be serious.....???????????????.



Fanruth,

do you own this product? If so what don't you agree with?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pga4ax5aus&feature=channel



EL

[Mark H]

If anyone doesn't think that Epstien is the best could you say who you do think is the best?

Thanks

Englishbeyhitting

[hitnpeas]

I think a lot can be learned at hittingillustrated. It is a nice supplement to the Epstein material....

[Rufus67]

The On Target dvd is the one you want. It's more concise than the other two and presented in a better format.

As others have suggested I would research the other hitting "gurus" as well like Yeager and Englishbey. There are many different ways to skin a cat in teaching swings (i.e., different approaches are effective for different kids/learning styles) and it would make sense to understand as much as possible about how each one approaches teaching what they consider a proper swing.

One thing I would mention is if you're going to go to Epstein you might want to look into an Epstein-certified trainer in your area (there's a locator on his website). At your son's age, and in the middle of the season, I'm not sure I would start tinkering with his swing without that guidance (at least to check in with once and a while). Epstein breaks things down to 2-3 drills and asks for a good number of dry swings with each before progessing to live pitching. That's not realistic during a season so progress/results may be slow. I'm not sure how the other gurus approach it, or if they have certified instructors, but you might think about researching that as well.

[rkbenn]

If he's 16 years old, he'd better not be a beginner. :sigh:

Of the top level people whose material is advanced enough for a 16 year old (i.e., forget about Mankin), I bear allegiance to and bias toward Englishbey's materials (at www.EnglishbeyHitting.com). But, people I respect also like Yeager's materials. I haven't done a complete review of Epstein's DVD's but, from what I've heard, what's actually on the DVD's is not quite advanced enough and has some weak cues that would keep me from recommending it for kids that old.

Believe it or not, it would help to have you post a video of a couple of the kid's swings. Some gurus may be better for addressing certain swing issues than others.


never assume or you can make an....lol

[rkbenn]

Anyone do the Video Analysis for Epstein?

[HYP]

I prefer Dr. Yeager.

So are you saying that you prefer a late throw of the barrel out front?

Epstein's material does not correctly address proper weight shift-He does not understand the purpose of the stride.

How many times have you met with him to determine that HE doesn't understand the purpose of a stride?

[Mark H]

I think a lot can be learned at hittingillustrated. It is a nice supplement to the Epstein material....

I don't know who should be annoyed over this. ;)

[HYP]

There is no purpose to the stride.

And thus your hitting knowledge is exposed.


Please explain why you beleive the stride is used and why gameth's statement exposes his hitting knowledge?

[darivero]

I am selling everything pretty soon...see letter below for answer:

Dear Steve,

I cannot thank you enough….here is the background:

I played HS baseball and was on a college team Div2 my freshman year but I hated the city and gave all that up to move back to South Florida and I became a cop instead…..years later we have a son, Daniel, he is 10 now….loves baseball. I thought I knew baseball and hitting but I wanted to learn how to instruct him correctly as he started to get older (here is where I made the biggest mistake of my life) so I bought, in this order, Emanski’s DVD, then I bought Mankin’s stuff, then I bought Epstein’s, then Mallee’s, then Yeager’s and I was still not happy with the results. We did everything they said, at times my son was totally confused……but he still managed to hit for a high average, not a lot of power, and had a great on-base percentage….we always talked about him hitting one over the 200 foot fence at our park….he was always about 30 feet short when he really crushed it.

I finally said, let me try this guy Steve Englishbey, his web page doesn’t look as fancy as others but it’s only money, what the heck, I have wasted enough already. So last week I got your DVD’s…wow!
Even though the production is not great, what you have to say, the way you articulate it, how simple you explain it, your great “sayings”, mesmerized me….I couldn’t stop watching.

I talked about your stuff with my son (the timing was good because my wife and 2 other kids were out of town), I showed him your videos and we did a little tee work outside the house. He started crying when I told him how I wanted his posture to be. “I can’t hit like that, that’s weird” he said. I fought through his hard headedness and we were able to hit a few balls off the tee.

The next day we went to his every Thursday hitting coach, on April 9th, 2009, really nice guy, was ex-MLB, and my son hit the hell out of the ball. He couldn’t believe the transformation; I took all the credit for it. His posture was better and he maintained the box about 70% of the time. He hit many line drives.

Today, yes Easter Sunday, we went to the park and did your fence drill, the pole drill, he hit some off the tee into the fence (with the bungees) and then I pitched him a bucket of balls….I get chills, halfway through the bucket (he was one and two bouncing them to the fence-he couldn’t believe how hard he was hitting) he hit one over the 200 foot sign, center left, maybe went 220…..he started crying and gave me a big hug and I said, “Dan, will you now listen to me and not fight me on this”…he said “yes dad.” Steve it was a moment that was worth 1000 times what I paid for all those crappy hitting DVD’s. You and only you know what a high level swing is and you know how to teach it, I can say that because I have seen all of the other stuff out there, even been to an Epstein hitting camp, and no one explains it like you do. Bless you and have a great Easter Sunday, God knows I did.

David

[HYP]

There definitely is a purpose to the stride and you can go on any website including O'Leary's to see that Pujols strides.


Goodbye to all credibility.

Please explain the purpose of the stride. I've seen 2 different people say that the stride is important but no one has said why. Are you guys just repeating what you have read? Or do you really know the purpose, if there is one?

[HYP]

The On Target dvd is the one you want. It's more concise than the other two and presented in a better format.

As others have suggested I would research the other hitting "gurus" as well like Yeager and Englishbey. There are many different ways to skin a cat in teaching swings (i.e., different approaches are effective for different kids/learning styles) and it would make sense to understand as much as possible about how each one approaches teaching what they consider a proper swing.
One thing I would mention is if you're going to go to Epstein you might want to look into an Epstein-certified trainer in your area (there's a locator on his website). At your son's age, and in the middle of the season, I'm not sure I would start tinkering with his swing without that guidance (at least to check in with once and a while). Epstein breaks things down to 2-3 drills and asks for a good number of dry swings with each before progessing to live pitching. That's not realistic during a season so progress/results may be slow. I'm not sure how the other gurus approach it, or if they have certified instructors, but you might think about researching that as well.

I agree that one should seek out different "gurus" to see their material but if it doesn't match what the pros are doing scrap it. Epstein, Yeager and Englishbey all teach something different and appear to have a completly different opinion of what is taking place in a MLB swing.

IMO Epstein is closest to the MLB pattern.

[CoachL4]

I enjoyed your letter. At times it sounded a little fictional but still enjoyed it.

What I'd like to see is maybe an update in 1 month, and then 6 months to see if you still felt that way about Englishbey. Very interested to see.

My journey is somewhat similar..I've been a Head College and Head High School coach the last 10 years. I went from Linear teaching, to Epstein, to a great guy named Kevin Sewell, some other rotational guys, really like Chris O'Leary...and have been really contemplating...jumping in the Englishbey world...but just need that extra push.

[HYP]

IMO you can't go wrong with Epstein material. Also, www.hittingillustrated.com has great material and supplements the Epstein material very well.

[darivero]

Nothing fictional about it, it is exactly how it happened.....my biggest mistake was that I didn't start with Englishbey...it would have saved me a lot of money. I will give you an update in a few months...

So far so good, we have only been at it since Easter, my son has a hard time understnading what Englishbey teaches that all the power comes from the body and not the arms....but when we hit at the ball field and not the cages, he can see it with his own eyes how far the ball travels when he is well connected and has a good posture...

We start every hitting session by doing the drills (Englishbey has over 100) first (we do 3 or 4 of them) then I pitch to him and we go through 2 buckets.....he is now saying before I do...."I used my arms on that one"...it is a great transformation.

[baseballdad]

If you want your player to learn to hit the ball consider buying Steve Englishbey's DVDs, participate in the website and get ready to practice, practice and practice. It's not something that happens in 7 days no matter what DVD you buy.

My 10 year old son and I have been working on his swing with Steve for a little under a year and we are very pleased.

[CoachL4]

I apologize..I'm not saying you were lying, just saying the story sounds sort of fictional.

Did you buy both DVD's?

[g-mac]

Please explain the purpose of the stride. I've seen 2 different people say that the stride is important but no one has said why. Are you guys just repeating what you have read? Or do you really know the purpose, if there is one?
I'll probably be ripped apart for this, but I see the stride beneficial for timing more than anything.

My son has been through a program with an Epstein certified instructor and got rid of his stride and is hitting tremendously better than last season.
I still think his stance looks strange compared to a MLB player, but it's what is working right now and we can always address that next off-season.

[HYP]

I'll probably be ripped apart for this, but I see the stride beneficial for timing more than anything.

My son has been through a program with an Epstein certified instructor and got rid of his stride and is hitting tremendously better than last season.
I still think his stance looks strange compared to a MLB player, but it's what is working right now and we can always address that next off-season.

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately you were not one of the guys spouting about the importance of the stride.

My son has also adopted a non stride swing. We just did it about 2 weeks ago, in the middle of the season. we did it because in his game swings we saw some things that we didn't like. so, we went to a no stride.

I agree it is mostly a timing device as well as creating forward momentum and a hip load.

All of which you can do in a no stride swing.

[hitnpeas]

I don't know who should be annoyed over this. ;)

Why should anyone be annoyed over it? Have you viewed the Epstein DVD's and spent any length of time at hittingillustrated.com? They both provide some quality hitting advice. Curious....

[baseballdad]

If you believe that rotation is enhanced by bracing and stiffening the front leg as you swing then I can see a stride as beneficial in creating more of a force to rotate against.

Just noticed: See Stride vs. no stride thread.

[rkbenn]

Who cares about a stride! I've got kids that struggle with striding, some do well, some don't stride and do well and some struggle. Weight shift is more important and is that what we are trying to accomplish? Can you do that with both? I have a kid that used a stride batted about 200, without a stride is now batting over 400. Sounds like I've been exposed for not knowing the MLB swing and the importance of a stride.

[Cannonball]

Folks, Fellers, Ya'll... Epstein???

[JK-CA]

I prefer Englishbey as he gives a practical method to do something very complex. I also think SETPRO teach your son how to hit (and throw) throw the s*!t out of the baseball are GREAT values, especially for the cost. I would recommend getting the complete collection of both SETPRO and englishbey hitting materials, learning them, and then applying them. It takes time regardless of what your private instructor tells you.

I have Mike Epsteins products and I think they are better at marketing then instructing. Develop elite movement and a high level swing is not easy. Reach your potential in 7 days? I don't think you can make an effective change in 7 days in a game situation. 7 months maybe but 7 years is really the closer length to reaching your potential. Epsteins products are ok for someone new to hitting but really I would look elsewhere to spend your money.

[Mark H]

Why should anyone be annoyed over it? Have you viewed the Epstein DVD's and spent any length of time at hittingillustrated.com? They both provide some quality hitting advice. Curious....

Inside joke. If you really want to know you can pm me.

[Jake Patterson]

I agree that one should seek out different "gurus" to see their material but if it doesn't match what the pros are doing scrap it. Epstein, Yeager and Englishbey all teach something different and appear to have a completly different opinion of what is taking place in a MLB swing.

IMO Epstein is closest to the MLB pattern.I feel if you look at the end product through jaundice eyes you will find they are more similar than dissimilar.

[new2thesport]

I'm looking to get my son, 16, a hitting instruction DVD and heard that Mike Epstien is one of the best.

Looking at his website I can't decide which would be a better buy.. maybe you guys can help.

Do We Teach What We Really See?

or

How To "Hit" Your Potential In Just 7 Days

Any idea which is better and covers more of the mechanics of hitting?

I too am curious of those dvds as well as the "on target" dvd that hyp mentioned. I saw it on the website. It would be great if I could purchase all of them. I also think that Mike Epstein is one of the best(from reading posts in here).
I just found a website that has a poll on hitting instructors (Poll Question: If you could only pick one, which one would you consider the most complete, efficient, and versitile).
Many names on that site are from here. If you are interested on knowing what they think and who they picked, you should go there. Its a baseball debate website.

I likely will end up getting Epsteins dvds since many here have them. Let me know how you like them! (whichever one you pick)

[Mark H]

I don't. If you don't like Englishbey I'd go with Yeager or Right View. And Erik is right. It doesn't come with support to my knowledge but the setpro video is very good.

[HYP]

I feel if you look at the end product through jaundice eyes you will find they are more similar than dissimilar.

Well, I have never seen an "end" product from Englishbey or Yeager. As a matter of fact I havn't seen any product of Englishbey and what I saw from Yeager didn't match up.

[FanRuth714]

HYP: Please explain why you beleive the stride is used and why gameth's statement exposes his hitting knowledge?

http://s6.zetaboards.com/Hitting/topic/791446/1/

this link was noted

[Jake Patterson]

Well, I have never seen an "end" product from Englishbey or Yeager. As a matter of fact I havn't seen any product of Englishbey and what I saw from Yeager didn't match up.Uncertain of an appropriate response... In general - dismissing unfamiliar techniques or the products of those techniques seems unproductive. Chris had his supporters here and they can fill you in on what they feel is a MLB pattern and who is using his material.

[jofus]

Well, I have never seen an "end" product from Englishbey or Yeager. As a matter of fact I havn't seen any product of Englishbey and what I saw from Yeager didn't match up.


Who have you REALLY seen an "end" product from? Aren't even the best hitters continually working on their swing, still trying to improve?

[collegeStar]

Who have you REALLY seen an "end" product from? Aren't even the best hitters continually working on their swing, still trying to improve?

HYP is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Richard-he has no mind of his own.

[MoKan]

HYP is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Richard-he has no mind of his own.

Guess you haven't seen this link

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86619

At least he's posting his work in progress and not hiding behind big brother.

[HYP]

HYP is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Richard-he has no mind of his own.

Please!

Every time I read one of your posts it is a personal attack or an insult. I have never read anything you wrote that has substance. But that is OK I can take it in stride. Because coming from you it means very little.

I have been posting clips of my son and the things we work on. Where's yours?

As far as a mouthpeice. Like has been stated before Richard doesn't have any mind control device on any of us. Wait, at least I don't think so, let me think. Nope, no brain control devices. He just has good information.

Just so you know I think for myself.

Would like to know who you are a mouthpeice for so I can stay far away from that guy.

Keep up with the attacks, but please be more creative. At least make them more humerous so we can get a chuckle. Wait, never mind, just keep posting, people are already laughing at you.

[HYP]

Uncertain of an appropriate response... In general - dismissing unfamiliar techniques or the products of those techniques seems unproductive. Chris had his supporters here and they can fill you in on what they feel is a MLB pattern and who is using his material.

I do not think I have ever dismissed Englishbey. I do not know enough about him other then what I hear here. I do know that I havn't seen anyone post video of his hitters.

I have seen some video of Yeagers students and in my eyes, the hitters I saw, do not match up.

[HYP]

Who have you REALLY seen an "end" product from? Aren't even the best hitters continually working on their swing, still trying to improve?

With this I agree. But within the process, shouldn't they match up somewhat?

[Digger]

I have Epstein's "On Target" series Fastpitch DVDs as well as his "Do We Teach What We Really See?" VHS tape.

The "On Target" DVDs focus on his three core drills and are very concise and to the point. "Do We Teach What We Really See?" is Mike's explanation of the MLB swing, as well as an explanation of the difference between style and technique.

It is important to understand that Mike's "On Target" DVDs are designed to teach the core technique part of the swing. IMO the DVDs do a good job of teaching "keeping the hands inside the ball", "proper shoulder tilt and rotation", "hitting behind your axis", "the importance of hitting from a balanced position, "how the hips lead the hands", and "setting swing plane".

Where the "On Target" DVDs are a little weak is in the area of weight shift. Based on video clips of some of Mike's students that he has trained, he clearly understands how to teach weight shift. However, his "On Target" DVDs do not do a good job of conveying his knowledge on weight shift. Fortunately, Mike has revamped his website and is now offering a service over the internet which supplements his DVDs. There is a $9.95 monthly fee for the service.

Another option would be to purchase the "On Target" DVDs and supplement them with information from Hittingillustrated. HI has some excellent information on how to teach proper weight shift. Their "One Legged" hitting concept is IMO outstanding and very easy to teach. Their concepts on both the upper and lower body blend nicely with Epstein's material.

When you visit Epstein's website, make sure you check out the video clip of the Fleck kid. This kid is only 15 years old and has a really good swing. He does a really good job of transfering his weight, keeping his hands inside the ball and his extension after contact is classic Ted Williams. I would use him as a model for your son as they are similar in age.

Even though you specifically asked about Epstein, the names of other hitting gurus have been mentioned. It's important to understand that there are significant differences in what several of these gurus teach. Some of the differences can be very difficult to discern. Tread carefully as it is very easy to get way off track and away from the elite MLB pattern. It's taken me months to figure out what to look for and where the differences are in each.

[rkbenn]

With this I agree. But within the process, shouldn't they match up somewhat?

HYP,

Are you talking about hitters that have used Yeagers DVDs or is a pupil?

[HYP]

HYP,

Are you talking about hitters that have used Yeagers DVDs or is a pupil?

My answer was in response to this question.

Who have you REALLY seen an "end" product from? Aren't even the best hitters continually working on their swing, still trying to improve?

With this I agree. But within the process, shouldn't they match up somewhat?

So, I was making a general statement. Not directed at any one individual or "guru".

But since you asked specifically about Yeager. The clip I would refer to is a pupil of Yeagers. That is not to say that all of his pupils look like this one and yes, I am aware that the pupil I am refering to is in the MLB.

Most of the stuff I have seen and heard about Yeager, creates a late throw of the barrel and a shift then swing versus shift and swing. Things that, IMO, do not match up to what the best are doing.

[Erik]

Most of the stuff I have seen and heard about Yeager, creates a late throw of the barrel and a shift then swing versus shift and swing. Things that, IMO, do not match up to what the best are doing.




HYP,

what does he say about the start of the swing? IMO in the connected swing it's pull back through and throw around without disconnection.



EL

[rkbenn]

My answer was in response to this question.





So, I was making a general statement. Not directed at any one individual or "guru".

But since you asked specifically about Yeager. The clip I would refer to is a pupil of Yeagers. That is not to say that all of his pupils look like this one and yes, I am aware that the pupil I am refering to is in the MLB.

Most of the stuff I have seen and heard about Yeager, creates a late throw of the barrel and a shift then swing versus shift and swing. Things that, IMO, do not match up to what the best are doing.

Okay, I got ya.

I've been teaching shift then throw, even though I use to go with shift and throw. I felt it created more separation. Especially after doing it myself.

[collegeStar]

HYP,

what does he say about the start of the swing? IMO in the connected swing it's pull back through and throw around without disconnection.



EL

HYP/ Graylon Duncan is a jr. high school coach who knows nothing about Yeager---He only knows what Ohfer/JoeBad/Teacherman tells him.

[collegeStar]

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Maciasside.gif


This is the clip of Drew Macias (Padres) that JoeBad/Ohfer/Teacherman tried to use against Yeager....

[collegeStar]

I will repeat a post I put up some time back.

Ohfer/Teacherman/JoeBad has made a complete 180 in his beliefs, but now he has it all right....????? yea that's it..

This type of man deserves no audience...The only thing Ricard Schneck has realized is that PCR was wrong----HIS new discoveries are a joke.....


http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...t=40518&page=2


Ohfer/Teacherman to Swingbuster:

I will personally kick his butt if Steve gives in to your "insaneness" and gives you a DVD for free.

That can be the only reason for your spewage of this garbage.

You are one cheap ass. A veterinarian, with a baseball side business (you expect others to spend their money on your sh*t, which is worthless, but you won't spend yours on his; in the pool hall we have a saying for your type) Your being too cheap to buy a DVD which answers your questions raises questions about your motivation.

I won't quit.

Llive with it.

I bet the membership increases in proportion to the rate that you ingore Steve's information.

Teacherman:
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...823#post465823

Quote:
WOW...now you'll see that other stuff you were believing is wrong.

Bat perpendicular to the spine is the only place for efficient transfer.

Now, keep it there, and adjust to pitch location by adjusting the spine.......not the arms.



Teacherman to ErikL and Buster

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=38819

Quote:
Well, well.

Not often you get to see the inventors of the two worst baseball devices in one spot.

Is that possible? Can two baseball inventors occupy the same space at the same time?

I'm in business. I understand how financial pressure works.

But, I've been able to maintain my honesty. Why can't you two?



There is no one in this world more bitter than swingbuster. He wants so badly to be a leader in the hitting world. But he can't get there for two reasons.

1) He has little to no understanding of the how the body works to produce a high level swing.

2) He sold his sole to his HBH which is todays equivalent of "squish the bug". Everyone's "holy grail". Everyone's "quick fix". Until further analysis (which will be too late for most that trained on it) shows exactly how the HBH ruins swings. Just as coaches misinterpreted "squish the bug" as the key to rotation, so has everyone misinterpreted the need for "hands back" to the point that they ruin a players ability to create momentum and rotate. Reality is if you teach how to create momentum and rotate, then keeping your hands back is so simple it's a no teach. Just as teaching rotation from the center finally showed that "squish the bug" is a no teach.
Teacherman On Nyman:



The only point of controversy about him is his personality.

His facts are rock solid. He's quite pissed that someone else has proven him wrong.

Buster's dislike of Nyman and Nymanites is personal. Has nothing to do with the truth.......in fact,....truth be damned if I can get a crack at Nyman.

[HYP]

HYP,

what does he say about the start of the swing? IMO in the connected swing it's pull back through and throw around without disconnection.



EL

My understanding is that he teaches, early lead arm extension and down through the nipple and occasionally palm to the pitcher as long as possible.

I beleive he teaches shift to the frontside. With the LAE, the shift to the front, along with down through the nipple. I do not know how you can have anything other then a late throw. Add in palm to the pitcher IMO you are doomed.

I understand he wants a connected swing but doesn't it seem that if you do the things I mentioned you will become disconnected?

Now, I know that those are cues and sometimes cues work for different individuals and I may be misinterpreting his work, but in the clip that I have seen passed around on these forums. The swing doesn't match up.

With all of that said, an instructor should not be judged by one swing from one individual. Unless that instructor says that the swing perfectly represents what he teaches.

[collegeStar]

HYP:I may be misinterpreting his work

But that doesn't stop your parroting of Ohfer. (please search this site for his past posts)


HYP: the clip that I have seen passed around on these forums. The swing doesn't match up.

Let's hear your analysis Graylon Duncan...What should his body be doing and when? Please no 'lingo'---just what the body parts should be doing differently in your/richard's opinion.

[HYP]

HYP/ Graylon Duncan is a jr. high school coach who knows nothing about Yeager---He only knows what Ohfer/JoeBad/Teacherman tells him.

collegeStar/CY(?),

I'm actually a Varsity HS coach and proud of that fact. It probably doesn't match up to your credentials but then again none of us no yours. I'm not afraid if people know my name. All though I do not think that I have ever posted it on here, I may be wrong but if I am not then that tells me you are someone who knows who I am.

So are you telling me that the 9 DVDs that I have of Yeager are not a representation of what he teaches and therefore that is why I do not understand him?

See you are not a good representation of Yeager. If I was him I would tell you to shut the **** up. You never add content and you just insult.

I am not afraid to admit that I do not know everything about the swing. I am also not afraid to admit that CY has worked with more students then me and students that are at a higher level then me. That is fact.

What I am not a fan of is the way I have seen him work and talk about the upperbody. The lowerbody Push/block/push I do not completely understand. If push/block/push works for someone then great. The problem I have with that is, based on my limited knowledge of this move, is I get shift then swing. When you shift then swing you create a late throw.

So, you can continue to repeat yourself about me being a mouthpeice for Teacherman, but it is getting old and unoriginal.

Are you a mouthpeice for CY?

[collegeStar]

Are you a mouthpeice for CY?

I am a strong believer in what he teaches, his experience with players and the science he uses to support what he says. I believe his work should be appreciated.

You are being led around by a guy with virtually no coaching experience who believes nothing he believed less than 2 years ago.

I don't follow Yeager to the "T" ....I don't incorporate as much barrel loading as he does--I don't think some of my younger players are ready for that...I also use some different language....

I make up my on mind---you let others make it up for you....

[HYP]

I will repeat a post I put up some time back.

Ohfer/Teacherman/JoeBad has made a complete 180 in his beliefs, but now he has it all right....????? yea that's it..

This type of man deserves no audience...The only thing Ricard Schneck has realized is that PCR was wrong----HIS new discoveries are a joke.....


http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...t=40518&page=2

This is where, IMO you blow up. shouldn't some one always be searching for the truth? Should someone be afraid to change their beleifs if better information comes along?

I have changed the way I taught before. Early on I taught fairly close to the way I currently teach. But in the process I have changed to try something different that I thought would work better. I was wrong. I since have came back to what I originally beleived to be correct.

the only people who are afraid of change are those who have to much money and time invested in their profession. If they change then they have to admit that what they have been teaching was wrong and then they have some explaining to do.

How many times have you changed your beleifs about hitting?

[collegeStar]

HYP: When you shift then swing you create a late throw.

What a vague statement.

Can we get back to this:

Let's hear your analysis Graylon Duncan...What should his body be doing and when? Please no 'lingo'---just what the body parts should be doing differently in your/richard's opinion.

[new2thesport]

Why is it that collegeStar can ruin a thread in Baseball Fever and can continue to post such negative remarks? It doesnt matter what thread, he just keeps trashing people. Cmon, moderators, I know you dont condone this type of activity. This was a great thread. Shame on you collegStar for trashing baseball fever.

[HYP]

I am a strong believer in what he teaches, his experience with players and the science he uses to support what he says. I believe his work should be appreciated.

You are being led around by a guy with virtually no coaching experience who believes nothing he believed less than 2 years ago.

I don't follow Yeager to the "T" ....I don't incorporate as much barrel loading as he does--I don't think some of my younger players are ready for that...I also use some different language....

I make up my on mind---you let others make it up for you....

You know nothing about me at all. for you to say you make up your own mind and in the same sentence say that I do not is pretty stupid. Sounds like to me that you do not make up your own mind.

I have been at this for 20 years, not to mention the years I played. How long have you been at it?

Do you think that I have seen things come and go in that time? Do you not think that I have tried different things in that time? Give me a break. I have tried many things and have experimented a lot.

I have never said that his work should not be appreciated. Anyone who puts in the time that he puts in should be comended. Just because I do not agree with everything he teaches doesn't mean that my beleifs are disrespecting him. I am free to beleive what I want to beleive, as you are.

[HYP]

What a vague statement.

Can we get back to this:

Let's hear your analysis Graylon Duncan...What should his body be doing and when? Please no 'lingo'---just what the body parts should be doing differently in your/richard's opinion.

Yes I will get to this give me a second to go over it quickly. You may get some "lingo" as I have stated many times. I am not a scientist so as far as what muscle groups should be used, I have no idea.

Did you say "vague" statement. That's laughable coming from someone who hasn't said anything that means something.

[collegeStar]

Its just funny that every thing you/HYP say is dripping w/ Ohfer/JoeBad/Teachermans lingo----


I have been a JuCo coach for 5 years after playing---so I work w/ players at a pretty high level..



Anyone who puts in the time that he puts in should be comended.

That's not in Ohfer's playbook and your posts mimic him.

[HYP]

HYP:

But that doesn't stop your parroting of Ohfer. (please search this site for his past posts)




Let's hear your analysis Graylon Duncan...What should his body be doing and when? Please no 'lingo'---just what the body parts should be doing differently in your/richard's opinion.

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Maciasside.gif

OK here it goes. If you want me to add break downs on video. I will need a lot more time, to save different sections of the clips.

What i see and do not care for are:

Lead hand is pushing back and extending the lead arm as his weight is moving forward. Although I do see a hip load he gives it up to early.

He has no hip rotation into foot plant. He is making a completely linear move into foot plant and has given up any hip load that he had earlier.

His front foot has become almost fully weighted prior to any signs of hip rotation. As the heel is dropping it appears that he is loading his lead shoulder to prepare to pull.

Shoulders have almost no tilt and remain virtually horizontal. He is now pulling on the knob and pushing his top hand through to try to stay inside the ball.

His Shoulders, Hands and hips are moving forward at the same time. Keeping him from creating any stretch or seperation.

What I would do is to try to change his upperbody load. Instead of pushing back with his lead hand. I would like to see the angle in the lead arm not change as much and have him pull back towards the dugout with th rear elbow more. This should keep him from extending back to far and will keep his hands closer to his rear shoulder. Where he will feel stronger.

I would also try to get him to maintain the hip load longer and start rotation into foot plant.

The reason, IMO, he feels the need to shift his momentum in such a linear fashion and load the lead shoulder is because of how far he takes his hands back. He feels weak with his hands that far back and doesn't feel like he can get the barrel moving without all of the forward momentum. so he shifts his weight to the front for momentum and then pulls hard with the lead shoulder. This all causes a late throw of the barrel out front.

IMO if he loaded his upperbody better and maintained his hip load better and roatated into foot plant he would feel stronger and be able to create the throw deeper in the zone and not so far out front.

Hope I answered your question. This is a quick analysis. There are probably some things that I left out.

[mudvnine]

I have been a JuCo coach for 5 years after playing---so I work w/ players at a pretty high..

My son's JuCo head coach taught this . . .

http://photos.imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis//work.gif

His JuCo catching coach took away what Dave Weaver (catchingcoach) taught him to get sub-2's and 2 flats and replaced it with mechanics that got him 2.2's . . . infuriating to say the least.

So, "I have been a JuCo coach for 5 years" holds very little credence with me . . . I'll take the "Varsity guy" and the catching coach who admittedly "spent years learning the position" (http://www.catchingcamp.com/about/staff/index.php?id=dave) even though neither may not stack up in your resume contest . . . I've seen and read what both can do; can't say the same about you "collegeStar" (little bit of an ego there huh, "Star" or would that be insecurity?).

[collegeStar]

You realize this guy has hit home runs in MLB...???? Just saying you are not looking at an amateur.

extending the lead arm as his weight is moving forward

From Yeager's videos --you know he wants this and this is very evident in MLB as well

He has no hip rotation into foot plant.

Most MLBers have hips square to camera at heel plant..Pause your clips there and you will see very little opening at front hip..

His front foot has become almost fully weighted prior to any signs of hip rotation.

same as above.


As the heel is dropping it appears that he is loading his lead shoulder to prepare to pull.

Purely subjective

Shoulders have almost no tilt and remain virtually horizontal.

Not after heel drops

His Shoulders, Hands and hips are moving forward at the same time. Keeping him from creating any stretch or seperation.

nonsense--one minute you say his hands are going back during shift--now all at same time.????

I would like to see the angle in the lead arm not change as much and have him pull back towards the dugout with th rear elbow more. This should keep him from extending back to far and will keep his hands closer to his rear shoulder. Where he will feel stronger.

This is not what MLBers do.....You have no clue what you are talking about.


I would also try to get him to maintain the hip load longer and start rotation into foot plant.

Ohfer lingo that has no specific meaning.


This all causes a late throw of the barrel out front.


Ohfer lingo that has no specific meaning.


roatated into foot plant he would feel stronger

generally speaking, what does one do w/ his body to "rotate into footplant?"

Hope I answered your question.

You did--you exposed your ignorance.

[MoKan]

Why is it that collegeStar can ruin a thread in Baseball Fever and can continue to post such negative remarks? It doesnt matter what thread, he just keeps trashing people. Cmon, moderators, I know you dont condone this type of activity. This was a great thread. Shame on you collegStar for trashing baseball fever.

That's because HYP is an Hitting Illustrated guy and not part of the golden flock.

[HYP]

You realize this guy has hit home runs in MLB...???? Just saying you are not looking at an amateur.

I am aware of this.



From Yeager's videos --you know he wants this and this is very evident in MLB as well

Yes, I am aware of it that is part of what I don't agree with. You are right. These are pretty close.

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Maciasleadarm%2044.jpg http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/bondsleadarm%2023.jpg


Most MLBers have hips square to camera at heel plant..Pause your clips there and you will see very little.

Yes but where is there weight and what have the hips started to do? refer to the above pics.



same as above.




Purely subjective

Yes subjective but look at the pull on the lead shoulder versus the pull on Bonds lead shoulder. Again pics above.



Not after heel drops

like I said they do tilt but not much and he gains no benefit from it.



nonsense--one minute you say his hands are going back during shift--now all at same time.????

Yes, I did say that the hands are moving back at shift. But you didn't understand what I was writing and/or I didn't do a good job of explaining. When the hips start to rotate, his hands and shoulder is moving forward at the same time.



This is not what MLBers do.....You have no clue what you are talking about.

Again, refer to the pics above.




Ohfer lingo that has no specific meaning.

or jbooth. The hips start to rotate into foot plant.




Ohfer lingo that has no specific meaning.

Do MLB hitters throw the barrel in front or does it get thrown deeper in the zone?




generally speaking, what does one do w/ his body to "rotate into footplant?"

guess the best way I could describe it would be to lower the COG and drive the rear hip down toward the front foot. This will start to clear the lead hip and start the hips turning.



You did--you exposed your ignorance.

Answers in bold.

If I exposed my ignorance to you then I am pleased because I am not sure I would want you to agree with me because then I may truly be ****** up.

[Cannonball]

Boy, there is a lot of meat and potatoes in this thread. First, the question was asked about by newtothesport as to why Collegestar is allowed to make his posts. Please all understand that when someone makes these assertions, both Jake and I have other things we have to do. This is my first chance to sit down today. Such is the life of someone not born to wealth. Collegestar and I will never agree on everything. However, he does make some points. Yeager, Epstein, Englishbey ... have all taken their ideas, drills, or whatever you want to call them and put them in a format that solidifies “what they believe” to a degree. Naturally, as one evolves, all is subject to changes even if they are slight. If someone else has the “anatomical parts” to attack others with his belief system, then put them out there in a format where one can’t change on a whim and let the chips then fall where they may. Otherwise, that slippery slope of “what I believe” can change with the wind while all along allowing one’s self to be on the attack against those others listed. I’ll be the first to say that if R.S. puts out a DVD of his beliefs, I’ll be one of the first to buy it. How’s that?

Per the Macias clip, that’s old news. Collegestar is simply making the point again that a certain expert used that swing to cricize Yeager when that same person has had success in professional ball. One could go back to the Ankiel argument from 2 years ago for a similar example. Collegestar is also correct in asserting that much of this argument on what Epstein believes was covered recently. It doesn’t take much to do a search and so, one can find presentations of several arguments and rebuttals.

HYP, you assert that some, if not many, of us are stagnant and have stopped searching “for the truth.” I question the validity of such a statement given that many of us have had very successful coaching careers and/or kids that are doing well. Why then would we change? Doesn’t that go back to the old adage that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it?” I understand that you’re a high school coach. That’s great and I support that since I know how very hard that is. However, to suggest that some of us found a “guru” and are stuck in some type of quagmire just doesn’t cut it. Heck, I was teaching the Soviets (Russians and Lithuanians) Lau’s stuff way back in the middle 80s. I’ve been to the city and seen the elephant. Most of us have. I hope what you have found is right for you. Still, don’t tell me that what I teach is wrong. BTW, isn’t that the epitome of arrogance for anyone (not targeted at HYP) to suggest to everyone that they have the answers and we’re all wrong?

HYP, the argument about “I’ve never seen an Englishbey hitter” is getting old. Certainly in another tread on this very subject, I pointed out that you never will. I laugh when I read that such and such made such and such a great hitter. We can all help some. Still, no one can show me any hitter that only one “guru” or expert or coach has ever influenced. It would be the same with philosophy. My child started out with Epstein. We do other stuff now. Still, I’m thankful for some of the info I used to get her started. There will never be an HI hitter as well. (Maybe for the exception of one person’s son and I’m not even really conceding that.) Call them whatever you want. I respect some of these guys who DON’T TAKE THE CREDIT BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T WORKED HOURS OVER MULTIPLE DATES WITH A GIVEN HITTER who is doing well. Also, along those lines, most posters here can remember back in the day when several posters put video up of their kids from that camp you don’t like. The results were some of the most vicious attacks I’ve ever heard and is one of the reasons there are very hard feelings between camps to the point that one individual will never be forgiven for what he said.

Concerning the video analysis, se are ALL only able to see what we can see. In other words, we look at video with our own biases. I will state again that if we put 5 swings up of Lau, Yeager, Epstein, Englishbey and Mankin, many posters who profess to know it all will fail miserably at labeling each player correctly per the instruction. JMHO!

Finally, I want to wrap this up with this, I was talking to a very successful D-I coach who is nationally known. I won’t mention his name since I don’t think he wants people to know we’re friends. (Imagine that.) He said something that was so simple and yet so smart. He said take the “box” for instance. He said that so many people distort it that he constantly gets players who are clueless as to what it is. Then, he gets “the triangle people.” I laughed. He didn’t. He said the “boxes” are trying to maintain rigid boxes. The triangles can’t wait to form the triangle. Then he said that he thought it “ironic” that video work is ruining good players. GET THE POINT?

[HYP]

HYP:

Graylon Duncan

Its just funny that every thing you/HYP say is dripping w/ Ohfer/JoeBad/Teachermans lingo----


I have been a JuCo coach for 5 years after playing---so I work w/ players at a pretty high level..




That's not in Ohfer's playbook and your posts mimic him.

You apperently think you know me. Do you happen to coach at a local college in my area and have we met?

[HYP]

Boy, there is a lot of meat and potatoes in this thread. First, the question was asked about by newtothesport as to why Collegestar is allowed to make his posts. Please all understand that when someone makes these assertions, both Jake and I have other things we have to do. This is my first chance to sit down today. Such is the life of someone not born to wealth. Collegestar and I will never agree on everything. However, he does make some points. Yeager, Epstein, Englishbey ... have all taken their ideas, drills, or whatever you want to call them and put them in a format that solidifies “what they believe” to a degree. Naturally, as one evolves, all is subject to changes even if they are slight. If someone else has the “anatomical parts” to attack others with his belief system, then put them out there in a format where one can’t change on a whim and let the chips then fall where they may. Otherwise, that slippery slope of “what I believe” can change with the wind while all along allowing one’s self to be on the attack against those others listed. I’ll be the first to say that if R.S. puts out a DVD of his beliefs, I’ll be one of the first to buy it. How’s that?

Per the Macias clip, that’s old news. Collegestar is simply making the point again that a certain expert used that swing to cricize Yeager when that same person has had success in professional ball. One could go back to the Ankiel argument from 2 years ago for a similar example. Collegestar is also correct in asserting that much of this argument on what Epstein believes was covered recently. It doesn’t take much to do a search and so, one can find presentations of several arguments and rebuttals.

HYP, you assert that some, if not many, of us are stagnant and have stopped searching “for the truth.” I question the validity of such a statement given that many of us have had very successful coaching careers and/or kids that are doing well. Why then would we change? Doesn’t that go back to the old adage that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it?” I understand that you’re a high school coach. That’s great and I support that since I know how very hard that is. However, to suggest that some of us found a “guru” and are stuck in some type of quagmire just doesn’t cut it. Heck, I was teaching the Soviets (Russians and Lithuanians) Lau’s stuff way back in the middle 80s. I’ve been to the city and seen the elephant. Most of us have. I hope what you have found is right for you. Still, don’t tell me that what I teach is wrong. BTW, isn’t that the epitome of arrogance for anyone (not targeted at HYP) to suggest to everyone that they have the answers and we’re all wrong?

HYP, the argument about “I’ve never seen an Englishbey hitter” is getting old. Certainly in another tread on this very subject, I pointed out that you never will. I laugh when I read that such and such made such and such a great hitter. We can all help some. Still, no one can show me any hitter that only one “guru” or expert or coach has ever influenced. It would be the same with philosophy. My child started out with Epstein. We do other stuff now. Still, I’m thankful for some of the info I used to get her started. There will never be an HI hitter as well. (Maybe for the exception of one person’s son and I’m not even really conceding that.) Call them whatever you want. I respect some of these guys who DON’T TAKE THE CREDIT BECAUSE THEY HAVEN’T WORKED HOURS OVER MULTIPLE DATES WITH A GIVEN HITTER who is doing well. Also, along those lines, most posters here can remember back in the day when several posters put video up of their kids from that camp you don’t like. The results were some of the most vicious attacks I’ve ever heard and is one of the reasons there are very hard feelings between camps to the point that one individual will never be forgiven for what he said.

Concerning the video analysis, se are ALL only able to see what we can see. In other words, we look at video with our own biases. I will state again that if we put 5 swings up of Lau, Yeager, Epstein, Englishbey and Mankin, many posters who profess to know it all will fail miserably at labeling each player correctly per the instruction. JMHO!

Finally, I want to wrap this up with this, I was talking to a very successful D-I coach who is nationally known. I won’t mention his name since I don’t think he wants people to know we’re friends. (Imagine that.) He said something that was so simple and yet so smart. He said take the “box” for instance. He said that so many people distort it that he constantly gets players who are clueless as to what it is. Then, he gets “the triangle people.” I laughed. He didn’t. He said the “boxes” are trying to maintain rigid boxes. The triangles can’t wait to form the triangle. Then he said that he thought it “ironic” that video work is ruining good players. GET THE POINT?

My first post of this thread.
I would get the "On target Series"

Then the discussion turned to Epstein not understanding the stride.

I asked what he didn't understand about it. And then I asked please explain why you think a stride is beneficial.

Then the discussione turned to other "gurus". I stated that you should examine other "gurus" and if it doesn't match up scrap it. I said that Epstein, Englishbey and Yeager teach something different. I though Epstein was closest.

I again stated that I don't think you can go wrong with Epstein materials along with HI.

Then Jake said this in response to me saying make sure the "gurus" match whats going on in the pros.

I feel if you look at the end product through jaundice eyes you will find they are more similar than dissimilar.

I responded with this.

Well, I have never seen an "end" product from Englishbey or Yeager. As a matter of fact I havn't seen any product of Englishbey and what I saw from Yeager didn't match up.

Here is the first post of collegeStar.

HYP is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Richard-he has no mind of his own.

Sounds confrontational to me and has absolutely no substance.

CS second post.

HYP/ Graylon Duncan is a jr. high school coach who knows nothing about Yeager---He only knows what Ohfer/JoeBad/Teacherman tells him.

third post from him at least had a clip. fourth post had posts from previous threads.

fifth post
HYP:

But that doesn't stop your parroting of Ohfer. (please search this site for his past posts)




Let's hear your analysis Graylon Duncan...What should his body be doing and when? Please no 'lingo'---just what the body parts should be doing differently in your/richard's opinion.

sixth post
I am a strong believer in what he teaches, his experience with players and the science he uses to support what he says. I believe his work should be appreciated.

You are being led around by a guy with virtually no coaching experience who believes nothing he believed less than 2 years ago.

I don't follow Yeager to the "T" ....I don't incorporate as much barrel loading as he does--I don't think some of my younger players are ready for that...I also use some different language....

I make up my on mind---you let others make it up for you....

seventh post
What a vague statement.

Can we get back to this:

8th post
Its just funny that every thing you/HYP say is dripping w/ Ohfer/JoeBad/Teachermans lingo----


I have been a JuCo coach for 5 years after playing---so I work w/ players at a pretty high level..




That's not in Ohfer's playbook and your posts mimic him.

9th post
You realize this guy has hit home runs in MLB...???? Just saying you are not looking at an amateur.



From Yeager's videos --you know he wants this and this is very evident in MLB as well



Most MLBers have hips square to camera at heel plant..Pause your clips there and you will see very little opening at front hip..



same as above.




Purely subjective



Not after heel drops



nonsense--one minute you say his hands are going back during shift--now all at same time.????



This is not what MLBers do.....You have no clue what you are talking about.




Ohfer lingo that has no specific meaning.




Ohfer lingo that has no specific meaning.




generally speaking, what does one do w/ his body to "rotate into footplant?"



You did--you exposed your ignorance.

So are you saying that I was confrontational? Anyone that can read can see that collegStars post are confrontational and personal since he states my full name a couple of times and wasn't adding any substance except, you do not know what you are talking about.

It is very evident that I didn't start the attacks and if you go back and read you will see that I tried to answer all of his questions.

If you can find any "points" being made in his posts then you have a greater imagination then me.

Cannonball,

Part in Bold
It is funny to me that that is what you got out of my posts. Tells me you didn't read the thread very well. CS posted posts from Teacherman that showed that he has changed his beleifs. I stated and intended to show that some so called "gurus" can't change what they beleive because it will water down what they have been teaching and they have to much time and money involved to do that.

Change is good as long as it is for the better.

It is pretty unbeleivable to me that you stood up for CS based on his "informative" posts.

[rkbenn]

I like the heated debates, as long as it's about differences in approach about baseball, and/or opinions on baseball. I learn a lot, and that's why I'm here.

What I don't like is two grown men taking about how big their....is. Oh and idiots correcting my spelling and grammer...lol

[HYP]

I like the heated debates, as long as it's about differences in approach about baseball, and/or opinions on baseball. I learn a lot, and that's why I'm here.

What I don't like is two grown men taking about how big their....is. Oh and idiots correcting my spelling and grammer...lol

You know what I agree with you 100%.

I sometimes allow myself to be bated into these arguements. I apologize.

Back to the original post.

You can't go wrong with Epstein.

[rkbenn]

You know what I agree with you 100%.

I sometimes allow myself to be bated into these arguements. I apologize.

Back to the original post.

You can't go wrong with Epstein.

CS may have had a strong agruement, but geez start at Defcon 1 not 4 on every post. You were caught up so much in this thing with CS, you did reply to my remarks about shift and throw.

[mudvnine]

You know what I agree with you 100%.

I sometimes allow myself to be bated into these arguements. I apologize.

Back to the original post.

You can't go wrong with Epstein.

HYP, you have NOTHING to apologize for. It's simply amazing how you are held to a different standard here by the moderators, who suddenly can't read or write when several of the antagonists show up with absolutely nothing to refute your statements with except insults and snide remarks. Unfriggin' believable!!!

Keep up the good work, many of us here appreciate your honesty and what you do.

[dominik]

@College star
At least Hyp does bring some content. All you do is saying "buy the yeager dvds" and bash other people. I know there have been some problems with HI guys being a little aggressive in the internet:), but what you do is one of the worst I have seen here.

And this is not to bash Yeager. I guess he has some good material, but what you do is not helping him at all. When you have knowledge, why don't you bring content instead of just calling people idiots and tell them to buy the dvd.

Of course I know that yeager wants to make money with it, but nobody asks you to reveal his drills or his whole stuff for free. But contributing something(analyzing swings for example) as the SE, Epstein and HI guys(and FFY who is a yeager guy I think) regularly do won't hurt either.

Again I'm not bashing yeager in any way, I just think you could bring in your knowledge in a more productive way then you do right know.

[Coach G]

HYP, you have NOTHING to apologize for. It's simply amazing how you are held to a different standard here by the moderators, who suddenly can't read or write when several of the antagonists show up with absolutely nothing to refute your statements with except insults and snide remarks. Unfriggin' believable!!!

Keep up the good work, many of us here appreciate your honesty and what you do.

Ya I agree. I am fairly new to the BBF. I don't really have a specific "guru" that I follow. Just from reading, my unbiased opinion is that HYP is getting bombarded. I don't know if there is history or what, but evidentaly something behind the scenes is going on. I personally feel that HYP is more correct in his assesments of the swing. I'm not trying to declare him a winner over collegestar. Just from experience and observation he makes more sense as to what is going on in a professional swing. I'm also not declaring Epstein the winner either. I don't have an instructor that I have studied I don't know what any of them teach or if they are even different at all.

Bottom line is I do like posts with substance, not just my d#*$ is bigger than yours. HYP at leasts your posts have substance and right or wrong I am thankful for them.

[g-mac]

HYP, you have NOTHING to apologize for. It's simply amazing how you are held to a different standard here by the moderators, who suddenly can't read or write when several of the antagonists show up with absolutely nothing to refute your statements with except insults and snide remarks. Unfriggin' believable!!!

Keep up the good work, many of us here appreciate your honesty and what you do.
I'd have to agree. While I'm admittedly a bit biased to Epstein, I find value in every form of hitting. (If everyone hit exactly the same way, it wouldn't be as interesting to discuss theories and such anyway)
I appreciate what HYP brings to the table just the same as anyone else, no matter what "guru" they buy into, as long as they bring it in a respectful manner.

[rkbenn]

I'd have to agree. While I'm admittedly a bit biased to Epstein, I find value in every form of hitting. (If everyone hit exactly the same way, it wouldn't be as interesting to discuss theories and such anyway)
I appreciate what HYP brings to the table just the same as anyone else, no matter what "guru" they buy into, as long as they bring it in a respectful manner.

Yes! There is no cookie cutter way. I don't think HYP comes across that way. I've used techniques from epstein, Yeager, some of the HI guys, and from me proforming them myself. Some kids don't respond to push block push, or push of your back foot creating mommentum of the hip and weight on your front foot. Hell, does it has to be so complicated?

Epsteins stuff works well, to me the other camps are good a fine tuning. Not to say Epstein isn't, for a small nominal fee.

[Digger]

HYP; as you can see from the last few post there are many people here at BBF that are smart enough to figure out who is posting content and who is not. Don't get drawn into a confrontation. Stay out of the weeds and keep posting content.

[Cannonball]

HYP, I'm sorry that in that lengthy waste of bandspace that is my earlier post, you missed my point. I thought there were a couple of very good points in it. No content but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.:waving:choke::gt

HYP, pm headed your way.

[HYP]

HYP; as you can see from the last few post there are many people here at BBF that are smart enough to figure out who is posting content and who is not. Don't get drawn into a confrontation. Stay out of the weeds and keep posting content.

Thanks and thanks to everyone who read the thread the way I did. Thought I was losing my mind there for a second.

Digger,

you are right. Sometimes I get caught up in the weeds. I will try to stay out of them next time.

Peace

[Cannonball]

I have apologized to HYP on a pm but am going to do so publicly. I'm not trying to pick a fight with him. I do stand by some of my former very long post that doesn't have any substance as suggested by others.

HYP, I apologize.

[Mark H]

HYP, you assert that some, if not many, of us are stagnant and have stopped searching “for the truth.”

Those who haven't been around the net hitting discussions for ten years may not understand some of us have already been through the "new" arguments some are bringing up and have moved on. Nothing new under the sun. Another point of order-taking one batting cage swing, especially one where it looks to me like he was goofing around, and thinking you know anything about how Macias swings the bat shows me something. Thinking you know something about what Yeager teaches, given the above point and given the many influences a pro has had in his career, is at least one step beyond that. Let's see a dozen game swings of Macias, ask Yeager what he likes and doesn't like about them, and then I'd grant you there is a good basis for discussion. Attacking Yeager, or any instructor based on this sort of clip shows either ignorance, thoughtlessness or an agenda IMO. And yes it feels awkward being kind of on the same side as CollegeStar for a moment. ;) Kind of like being on the same side as Teacherman back in the day on hsbbweb. With friends like that, does Yeager really need any enemies? :shrug:

[Cannonball]

Like there is the Hanson Principle, there should also be other requirements when trying to judge what a person teaches in the swing. Certainly the point is well taken that one swing represents... ONE SWING. It isn't indicative of a history of that person's swing. We also continue to make unsound arguments based upon placing a player in MLB in comparison to some person hitting off of a tee or ... What about speed, location, ...? Again, I didn't bring anything to the argument when I posted, "Finally, I want to wrap this up with this, I was talking to a very successful D-I coach who is nationally known. I won’t mention his name since I don’t think he wants people to know we’re friends. (Imagine that.) He said something that was so simple and yet so smart. He said take the “box” for instance. He said that so many people distort it that he constantly gets players who are clueless as to what it is. Then, he gets “the triangle people.” I laughed. He didn’t. He said the “boxes” are trying to maintain rigid boxes. The triangles can’t wait to form the triangle. Then he said that he thought it “ironic” that video work is ruining good players. GET THE POINT?"

I do doubt that there will ever been a sense of detente on any message board that delves into hitting.

[Digger]

I don't have an instructor that I have studied I don't know what any of them teach or if they are even different at all.

Yes they are different. For instance the swing of Macias (shown above) and the swing of the Fleck kid on Epstein's website, are very different. As HYP already pointed out, Macias' hips and hands start coming forward at the same time. Marcias gets little to no seperation between is upper and lower body. Compare that to the Fleck kid who clearly leads his hands with his hips and gets good seperation. Also notice how Marcias shifts his weight forward and then swings. Whereas Fleck shifts his weight as he swings. A good way to see this is to watch their heads for forward movement. Check out how little Fleck's head travels forward by comparing it to the window on the building in the background. Now check out how far Marcias' head travels.

These hitters have two very different swing patterns.

[Mark H]

Just out of personal curiosity, I was wondering if you read my post before you posted the above?

[HYP]

Those who haven't been around the net hitting discussions for ten years may not understand some of us have already been through the "new" arguments some are bringing up and have moved on. Nothing new under the sun. Another point of order-taking one batting cage swing, especially one where it looks to me like he was goofing around, and thinking you know anything about how Macias swings the bat shows me something. Thinking you know something about what Yeager teaches, given the above point and given the many influences a pro has had in his career, is at least one step beyond that. Let's see a dozen game swings of Macias, ask Yeager what he likes and doesn't like about them, and then I'd grant you there is a good basis for discussion. Attacking Yeager, or any instructor based on this sort of clip shows either ignorance, thoughtlessness or an agenda IMO. And yes it feels awkward being kind of on the same side as CollegeStar for a moment. ;) Kind of like being on the same side as Teacherman back in the day on hsbbweb. With friends like that, does Yeager really need any enemies? :shrug:

Mark,

I think I said something very similar in post #61. I just didn't add in the ignorant, thoughtlessness or agenda comment.

With all of that said, an instructor should not be judged by one swing from one individual. Unless that instructor says that the swing perfectly represents what he teaches.

You can agree with who you want to agree with but could you please explain exactly what it is you agree with that collegeStar said in this thread?

I do not beleive that I just attacked Yeager or anyone. I only made comments to questions posed and try to give answers to the best of my ability.

[gameth]

And thus your hitting knowledge is exposed.




Erik L?---you can't be serious.....???????????????.

Care to explain why the stride is needed? And then tell us all how Pujols is able to hit just fine without one?

[Mark H]

Mark,

I think I said something very similar in post #61. I just didn't add in the ignorant, thoughtlessness or agenda comment.

I do not beleive that I just attacked Yeager or anyone. I only made comments to questions posed and try to give answers to the best of my ability.

Noted. My comments are really motivated by the silly, IMO, use of the Macias clip by many over the recent past as well as many similar examples with other instructor's and clips over the last several years.

You can agree with who you want to agree with but could you please explain exactly what it is you agree with that collegeStar said in this thread?

Only in the sense my comments could be construed as supportive of "his guy". I predict when Collegestar is in his fifties he will chuckle at his passionate, perhaps over the top zealous certainty. You would think there was a burning bush and stone tablets involved in Yeager's teachings listening to Collegestar's tone.

[CoachL4]

Care to explain why the stride is needed? And then tell us all how Pujols is able to hit just fine without one?

I'm not sure how or why people keep saying Pujols doesn't stride. I've seen 100's of still frame GIFs, Flip Books, Video and even seen him play live.

Pujols does stride everytime. Sometimes 3 inches...Sometimes 6, but does stride every time.

I keep reading people on BFF saying Pujols doesn't stride. Are they watching Albert Pujols? His daughter Sophia Pujols? I'm confused.

[Digger]

Just out of personal curiosity, I was wondering if you read my post before you posted the above?

No, I had not read your post before I posted. I'm not sure why you think that should matter.

If you notice in my post I was careful not to attribute any one particular guru to Marcias. I don't know how Marcias developed his swing mechanics. I do believe that the swing of Fleck is a pretty good representation of what Epstein teaches.

The point of my thread was to illustrate how the mechanics of hitters can vary. IMO these variances are directly related to the information they are using to develop their swing mechanics. The person or persons, that Marcias has used to develop his swing is irrelevent to me. What is relevent is that whatever material he used resulted in a swing pattern that differs markedly from the swing pattern of the best hitters in MLB. As you know MLB has many hitters that use less than optimum mechanics. Not everyone in MLB can hit like Williams, Bonds, Pujols, Chipper or Manny.

Jeff Francouer is a prime example. You would think that a guy as big, strong and athletic as he is, would have much better stats. Chipper said last year that Francouer's mechanics were a mess. His current mechanics were good enough to get him to the majors, but may not be good enough to keep him there. He made changes over the winter, but his swing is still not on the same level as some of his teammates like Chipper and McCann. Due to his size (6-4, 220) and superior athleticism, he maybe able to stay in the bigs, but I doubt he will ever put up serious stats with his current mechanics. He hits more bloop singles and little squibbers than any other 6-4 220lb guy I have ever watched.

One final thought. The various hitting gurus make money by selling material to the general public that claim to teach the high level MLB swing. IMO it's nonsense to think that we as consumers are being unreasonable to want proof that the material that these gurus are selling, matches their marketing claims.

[halfguard]

I'm not sure how or why people keep saying Pujols doesn't stride. I've seen 100's of still frame GIFs, Flip Books, Video and even seen him play live.

Pujols does stride everytime. Sometimes 3 inches...Sometimes 6, but does stride every time.

I keep reading people on BFF saying Pujols doesn't stride. Are they watching Albert Pujols? His daughter Sophia Pujols? I'm confused.

im not sure what you are looking at, pujols does not stride. he has a severe pinching in of the knee.

[Coach G]

Pujols has more of a foot up foot down approach. I don't know whether I would call it a stride or a non stride. Clips I have seen his toe does come up off the ground very little but then he gets it right back down quick. So stride - no stride its hard to say its one or the other.

[CoachL4]

Are you guys serious?

Pujols starts his front foot at the middle part of the plate where it begins to go horizontal back towards the catcher. When he strides his foot lands at the front of the plate. Thats a good 6 inches. EVERY time. I have Right View Pro, I have 60 frame per second flip books of Pujols, he strides every time.

[halfguard]

what year is your clip from? i think he used to stride....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsYtKK0OJxs

[ShawmLee]

Are you guys serious?

Pujols starts his front foot at the middle part of the plate where it begins to go horizontal back towards the catcher. When he strides his foot lands at the front of the plate. Thats a good 6 inches. EVERY time. I have Right View Pro, I have 60 frame per second flip books of Pujols, he strides every time.


Coach,

I think if you look at Pujols over a period of itme, you will see some ABs where he strides and some where he basically raises his heel and puts it back down. I too have RVP and I'm not sure where I've ever seen 6 inches of stride from him, looked like maybe 3 -4 at most. Stride or no, his weight shift is dramatic. That's where much of the power comes from. Of course, he's also a very large, strong guy which doesn't hurt any.

[HYP]

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Pujols3.gif

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Pujols4.gif

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Pujols1.gif

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Pujols17.gif

[CoachL4]

I will admit in that youtube video of BP he doesn't stride. The footage I have of him is over the last 3 years including from this year. But every GAME swing I have shows what HYP's clips above show...3-6 inch stride. every time.

[jofus]

I will admit in that youtube video of BP he doesn't stride. The footage I have of him is over the last 3 years including from this year. But every GAME swing I have shows what HYP's clips above show...3-6 inch stride. every time.

So, you see a 3-6 inch stride in this clip? To me, that just proves a very simple point, that we all have a tendency to see something different, because to me, his foot comes down in the same place it starts, pretty much exactly.

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Pujols1.gif

[ShawmLee]

So, you see a 3-6 inch stride in this clip? To me, that just proves a very simple point, that we all have a tendency to see something different, because to me, his foot comes down in the same place it starts, pretty much exactly.


If that's 6 inches, I'm HUGE. :happy:

just kidding Coach. Seriously though, I think he has altered his stride or lack thereof over the years. What he hasn't altered is his weight shift.

[tominct]

my biggest mistake was that I didn't start with Englishbey....

I have Steve's stuff and my sons have worked with his stuff. My issue is simply this...

WHICH OF THESE GUYS SELLS THE "I WANT TO PRACTICE" DVD?

My boys just don't seem to want to practice, and my 11 year old, who admittedly is not very athletic still can't get the ball out of the infield! His issue is simply giving up on the swing right after contact, he doesn't finish; huis hips stop rotating pretty much at contact.

I really don't know what to do.

T

[Coach G]

I have Steve's stuff and my sons have worked with his stuff. My issue is simply this...

WHICH OF THESE GUYS SELLS THE "I WANT TO PRACTICE" DVD?

My boys just don't seem to want to practice, and my 11 year old, who admittedly is not very athletic still can't get the ball out of the infield! His issue is simply giving up on the swing right after contact, he doesn't finish; huis hips stop rotating pretty much at contact.

I really don't know what to do.

T

Start a new thread maybe post vid. You might get some help. Amidst all the sword fighting on here there is some good information to be had.

[Digger]

WHICH OF THESE GUYS SELLS THE "I WANT TO PRACTICE" DVD?

LOL!!!

Now that's a DVD I would buy.

[Mark H]

No, I had not read your post before I posted. I'm not sure why you think that should matter...

I can see that.

If you notice in my post I was careful not to attribute any one particular guru to Marcias. I don't know how Marcias developed his swing mechanics. I do believe that the swing of Fleck is a pretty good representation of what Epstein teaches..

Well since there's no before clip I don't know how good Fleck was before. IME, the other after clips are representative of what he teaches.

The point of my thread was to illustrate how the mechanics of hitters can vary. IMO these variances are directly related to the information they are using to develop their swing mechanics. The person or persons, that Marcias has used to develop his swing is irrelevent to me. What is relevent is that whatever material he used resulted in a swing pattern that differs markedly from the swing pattern of the best hitters in MLB. As you know MLB has many hitters that use less than optimum mechanics. Not everyone in MLB can hit like Williams, Bonds, Pujols, Chipper or Manny..

And my point is, again, taking one bp cage swing, especially when it looks like he's goofing around, and drawing conclusions from it as if you know anything about his game swing from that is absurd IMO.

[HYP]

I can see that.



Well since there's no before clip I don't know how good Fleck was before. IME, the other after clips are representative of what he teaches.



And my point is, again, taking one bp cage swing, especially when it looks like he's goofing around, and drawing conclusions from it as if you know anything about his game swing from that is absurd IMO.

Part in Bold.

Now who is making assumptions?

[Mark H]

Linguistically the point stands on it's own and is only enhanced rather than justified by what you have bolded. IOW, your point is in error.

[HYP]

Linguistically the point stands on it's own and is only enhanced rather than justified by what you have bolded. IOW, your point is in error.

Huh!

So, if he wasn't goofing around and that truly is his swing, then what you are saying is, that his swing looks like someone "goofing" around.

[Mark H]

I'm saying, again, drawing conclusions about a hitter based on one bp cage swing is indefensible.

[hitnpeas]

Part in Bold.

Now who is making assumptions?

Linguistically the point stands on it's own and is only enhanced rather than justified by what you have bolded. IOW, your point is in error.

Huh!

So, if he wasn't goofing around and that truly is his swing, then what you are saying is, that his swing looks like someone "goofing" around.

I'm saying, again, drawing conclusions about a hitter based on one bp cage swing is indefensible.


Who's on first? :crazy

[Slapper23]

HYP,

How one (Mark) can assume Macias is "goofing around" in the swing is beyond me. And "linguistically, the point stands on it's own"!? Sheesh! Marcus, who you trying to impress?

Mike

[Jake Patterson]

HYP,
How one (Mark ) can assume Macias is "goofing around" in the swing is beyond me. Mike
Mike, do we not all make assumptions when we view clips? Game swing, not a game swing, count, goofing, not goofing, pitch type, etc., etc.

[Cannonball]

Not to attempt to make a "crediable post" but is it possible that any player, IN A CAGE, is attempting to work on a concept?

[Deemax]

Non bp swing from drew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5i3iOi4Q4c&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fvideosear ch%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Ddrew%2520macias%26um%3D1%26ie%3 DUTF%2D8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwv&feature=player_embedded

[ShawmLee]

Non bp swing from drew.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5i3iOi4Q4c&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fvideosear ch%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Ddrew%2520macias%26um%3D1%26ie%3 DUTF%2D8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwv&feature=player_embedded


Obviously the pros don't know as much as some on this board or he woudln't be getting the chance to hit like that. I think that far too often we on this board get mired in the minutia and don't see the big picture. Regardless of whether you like his swing or not, he is getting it done on a much bigger stage than all but a few ever see.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the endless, mind numbing arguments as much as anyone but maybe we should spend more time on the "getting it done aspect" on occasion.

Just a thought.

[Cannonball]

Obviously the pros don't know as much as some on this board or he woudln't be getting the chance to hit like that. I think that far too often we on this board get mired in the minutia and don't see the big picture. Regardless of whether you like his swing or not, he is getting it done on a much bigger stage than all but a few ever see.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the endless, mind numbing arguments as much as anyone but maybe we should spend more time on the "getting it done aspect" on occasion.

Just a thought.

You are a wise man!

Edited to add:

I know many of you won't take a look at the Softball Thread currently active here. I have posted two pics of my kid there in case you ever want to see what the kid looks like.

[ssarge]

You are a wise man!

Yeah. Ideally we should all put aside idealogical entrenchment and partisian blinders (a line from West Wing which I like) and look at WHY someone at the MLB level IS successful. Rather than discuss why he shouldn't / won't continue to be, just because he doesn't fit our world view.

Regards,

Scott

[HYP]

Yeah. Ideally we should all put aside idealogical entrenchment and partisian blinders (a line from West Wing which I like) and look at WHY someone at the MLB level IS successful. Rather than discuss why he shouldn't / won't continue to be, just because he doesn't fit our world view.

Regards,

Scott

I agree. It is ultimately about preformance.

I guess my question would be then why do we have hitting forums where people can discuss the mechanics of a MLB swing?

I think that we try to pass along ideas and things that we beleive are happening within a MLB swing. We will not all agree and that is great. Hopefully everyone here can learn something to help out their own individual thinking of what takes place in the swing.

Since collegeStar posted the clip of Macias in this thread and asked me to give my analysis of what I thought should be happening. I did. Whether someone agrees with it or not is not up to me it is up to the individual reader.

I don't think your post was just directed at me but the forum as a whole. But I never in my assesment stated that Macias has not been or will not be succesful in the MLB. My assesments, just like anyone elses assesments, of any players swing is just that, a personal assesment. Because ultimately no one on this forum knows what Macias is doing or what he is thinking or what he is feeling. Unless they have personally sat down and talked to him.

The only hitters I can give you a detailed assesment as to what they are feeling and doing are the hitters that I personally work with.

So yes I agree with you. It is about success at the level you are playing at and if you have made it to the highest level, then you should be given respect for making it farther then most. Now the goal would be to have continued success and stay there.

[Deemax]

I found a home run swing from drew, but dont know how to trasfer the vid to here.

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=445928

[halfguard]

there are many athletes that dont do things textbook, however, they are good enough athletes to get a way with it.also, ther are average athletes who need to do everything textbook to play well.

[Mark H]

HYP,

How one (Mark ) can assume Macias is "goofing around" in the swing is beyond me. And "linguistically, the point stands on it's own"!? Sheesh! Marcus, who you trying to impress?

Mike

You just pop off every chance you get since I told you I don't respect you regardless of whether you have a point or not. It wasn't an assumption it was an observation of what it looked like to me. If linguistically is a bit much for you I hope you don't teach an English class. The name is Mark. Please don't get familiar with me.

[Mark H]

I found a home run swing from drew, but dont know how to trasfer the vid to here.

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=445928

That would be interesting. Hopefully someone can help. If someone wants to look at several game swings and draw some conclusions, so be it. Drawing conclusions from a cage bp swing remains very suspect at best.

[Coach G]

HYP:

But that doesn't stop your parroting of Ohfer. (please search this site for his past posts)




Let's hear your analysis Graylon Duncan...What should his body be doing and when? Please no 'lingo'---just what the body parts should be doing differently in your/richard's opinion.

Ok So someone asked for his analysis, and he gave it and now you guys don't want it. Look if you don't want the answer don't ask the question. This is ridiculous. Posting a clip of this man's swing, and then asking HYP for his analysis. Well you got it, but for some reason it wasn't the analysis you wanted because its a BP swing.
I'm not taking sides here I just think its funny how you asked for his analysis and he gave it and now your all over him for giving it. What is going on?
HYP didn't post the cage swing of that young man he just gave his input when asked.

[Slapper23]

Sorry, MARK. I don't "pop off" because of anything you said to me or about me, so don't give yourself so much credit. My sometimes irritation with you is the always present agenda from which your posts emanate. And I do know a little about linguistics...one of my favorite classes back in the day.

All the best, Mark,
Mike

[hitnpeas]

That would be interesting. Hopefully someone can help. If someone wants to look at several game swings and draw some conclusions, so be it. Drawing conclusions from a cage bp swing remains very suspect at best.

I agree that a game swing may be better, but why is it bad to draw conclusions from BP? Sometimes this is the best way (for me anyway) to view multiple swings against live pitching.

[Jake Patterson]

I agree that a game swing may be better, but why is it bad to draw conclusions from BP? Sometimes this is the best way (for me anyway) to view multiple swings against live pitching.I look at BP like I do hitting a few off the driving range before a tourney... Seldom are you focussing on getting the ball to a specific area, you're there to warm up, fix something, or try something new.

I believe the same is true of baseball and bp.

Make sense?

[Mark H]

I agree that a game swing may be better, but why is it bad to draw conclusions from BP? Sometimes this is the best way (for me anyway) to view multiple swings against live pitching.

Game swings are often better, worse or different than bp swings. And you never know if a bp swing was full effort, working on something specific, or even just goofing around.

[hitnpeas]

I look at BP like I do hitting a few off the driving range before a tourney... Seldom are you focussing on getting the ball to a specific area, you're there to warm up, fix something, or try something new.

I believe the same is true of baseball and bp.

Make sense?

Your views are clear, but it isn't the way I go about hitting bp....Some swings are for warming up but I work hard on a game like swings, hitting to spots and solid mechanics. I guess you just go about BP differently than I do.


Game swings are often better, worse or different than bp swings. And you never know if a bp swing was full effort, working on something specific, or even just goofing around.

I don't think I disagreed with BP swings possibly being different than game swings, but to discount them completely? Even when not giving max effort in BP, you can still see the "general" swing pattern a hitter displays.

[dominik]

Why don't we go back to Mike Epstein?:) How did this discussion turn into a yeager discussion?

[songtitle]

Just do the opposite of what every other coach instructs, and you'll be hitting like a champ.:o

[Mark H]

I don't think I disagreed with BP swings possibly being different than game swings, but to discount them completely? Even when not giving max effort in BP, you can still see the "general" swing pattern a hitter displays.

I wouldn't mind looking at them along with some game swings. Taking a bp swing of a MLB hitter and criticizing it seems more likely to produce erroneous conclusions than not. I don't think that's fair to the hitter or to any instructor associated with that hitter. If a guy made it to the bigs I think we owe him the respect of using his game swings to characterize his swings. I don't ever recall who said what so I'm not necessarily criticizing you or anyone else in particular but rather speaking generally.

[Mark H]

Why don't we go back to Mike Epstein?:) How did this discussion turn into a yeager discussion?

Yeah following a hitting discussion can get a little crazy.

[hitnpeas]

I wouldn't mind looking at them along with some game swings. Taking a bp swing of a MLB hitter and criticizing it seems more likely to produce erroneous conclusions than not. I don't think that's fair to the hitter or to any instructor associated with that hitter. If a guy made it to the bigs I think we owe him the respect of using his game swings to characterize his swings. I don't ever recall who said what so I'm not necessarily criticizing you or anyone else in particular but rather speaking generally.

I wasn't talking about a MLB hitter per se, I was stating that in general, I get a lot of good video from QUALITY BP sessions....

[Mark H]

My comments were in reference to the Macias clip. Certainly monitoring a student's bp sessions along with game video would be useful.

[hitnpeas]

My comments were in reference to the Macias clip. Certainly monitoring a student's bp sessions along with game video would be useful.

Gotcha....