Team Commitment

[The Football Ref]

I was wondering what some of you think about this situation.

10U Travel Team decides to only carry 11 on the roster so sitting time is kept to a minimum. 3rd year together and pretty competitive.

But we have 2 players on the team right now that play AAU travel Basketball and the 2 schedules are conflicting. We are at a huge tournament this weekend playing with 9.

I know what the solution is, but I was wondering how many other travel teams out there are in a similiar situation.

[AgentX]

Travel teams tend to demand this commitment from players. If they can't make it, they don't play.

Adding a player or two will solve this problem in a big hurry. A player will have to put a little more thought into his priorities if he knows that missing one game for another commitment is going to land him on the bench for the next game.

Most of our travel games are double-headers, so carrying a bigger roster makes it easier on the players. Especially when the weather gets hot. And when you have 4 kids sitting, the bench isn't such an awful place to be.

[Jake Patterson]

I was wondering what some of you think about this situation.

10U Travel Team decides to only carry 11 on the roster so sitting time is kept to a minimum. 3rd year together and pretty competitive.

But we have 2 players on the team right now that play AAU travel Basketball and the 2 schedules are conflicting. We are at a huge tournament this weekend playing with 9.

I know what the solution is, but I was wondering how many other travel teams out there are in a similiar situation.
Herein lies one of the major problem with travel ball at this age. Kids are forced to make choices at too young of an age. What if the child likes both sports? If this was a 16 y/o team i'd say a committment needs to be made, but these are what - 4th and 5th graders??

[baseballdad]

Right now we have baseball, soccer and basketball leagues playing games. They just registered for Lacrosse. We have some kids playing 3 sports and I am constantly getting kids that can't make it to games because of schedule conflicts. I believe that is unfair to the teams that you are dissing.

It's really the parents fault for letting kids sign up for more than one league at a time. A kid can play different sports but should not play them at the same time with conflicting schedules IMO. If the kids & parents were aware of the committment levels the kids should be punished. They probably liked the idea of a smaller team and little bench time. Heck they can play basketball in the fall/winter.

[scorekeeper]

…It's really the parents fault for letting kids sign up for more than one league at a time. A kid can play different sports but should not play them at the same time with conflicting schedules IMO. If the kids & parents were aware of the committment levels the kids should be punished. They probably liked the idea of a smaller team and little bench time. Heck they can play basketball in the fall/winter.

I want to make sure I understand what you’re saying. It sounds like you advocate punishing children because they follow the course of action their parents set for them.

[starman]

There is always two sides to every story if not more. What about the players who don't play two or three sports at a time is it really fair to them. They put all the time and energy into one sport and then when it comes to play in a tournament some players don't show up because of other sport commitments. Who ever is running the team will have to make some hard choice next year/season, so this doesn't happen again.

[starman]

Also, I coach a Rec. team as well as a travel team and I see more kids not showing up for a Rec. practice or game than they will for a practice/travel game. It has gotten so bad in our town that the Rec. has installed a level of commitment check off box, to help us when we draft our teams.

[Bolts-Baseball]

We ran a team EXACTLY like this.

It felt like every weekend, we had no idea if we could play or not. We'd add kids at the last minute, borrow one or two from the another team, whatever it took.

It was pretty stressful.

On the flip-side:

My son now plays for one of, if not the, most successful youth baseball programs in the country, Coached by a former MLB All-Star, WS Champ, and 20+ year MLB vet... He carries 14-15 players on his roster. Why? If you sit the bench, and you're the 10 or 11th guy, sitting can be hell. But with 5-6 guys on the bench, it's a party.

Just something to think about.

[shake-n-bake]

We played in a fall tournament last year and really had trouble because of football.

The kids' commitment is usually something to behold. My son was one of a couple kids that played a baseball game, changed clothes in the car, played in a football game, changed in the car, and played the second game of a double header in the same day. And, it was something like 95 degrees that day. He was one pooped little guy.

You're going to punish a kid with that sort of effort? Then they get home and have home work and chores and try to get a little non-sports goofing around time with their friends in. No way, reward them by letting them play whatever they want.

If an 11 y/o can figure out how to keep all those balls in the air, an adult ought to be able to plan ahead, make a few phone calls, and have some kids lined up to fill in if they're short players for a tournament.

[mudvnine]

We played in a fall tournament last year and really had trouble because of football.

The kids' commitment is usually something to behold. My son was one of a couple kids that played a baseball game, changed clothes in the car, played in a football game, changed in the car, and played the second game of a double header in the same day. And, it was something like 95 degrees that day. He was one pooped little guy.

You're going to punish a kid with that sort of effort? Then they get home and have home work and chores and try to get a little non-sports goofing around time with their friends in. No way, reward them by letting them play whatever they want.

If an 11 y/o can figure out how to keep all those balls in the air, an adult ought to be able to plan ahead, make a few phone calls, and have some kids lined up to fill in if they're short players for a tournament.

I understand and agree with you regarding not punishing a kid for wanting to play multiple sports, but I disagree with you comment, "an adult ought to be able to plan ahead, make a few phone calls, and have some kids lined up to fill in if they're short players for a tournament."

Most TB tournament associations have roster rules and "filling" quality players in a tournament is not always as easy as a "phone call"; especially in an area (SoCal) that supports numerous TB organizations and most TB quality kids are already rostered on other teams.

The TB manager has the choices listed above; over fill a roster in preparation for kids missing to other commitments and deal with too many players when everyone shows up, or keep the roster low and playing time up, by finding single interest athletes . . . either way you'll never make everyone happy and that just comes with the territory.

[baseballdad]

Punish is probably the wrong word. But if its Travel Ball and kids and parents knew it was a small squad that required good attendance committment I would ask for that committment and if it was not forthcoming I think the team is well within its rights to look for new players or the very least the no shows would not get as quality playing time when they did show up.

Committment is one of the principals playing sports helps teach. What does it say to the kids that don't follow through on it and the team that has to suffer due others not showing committment? If the parent and player are up front before the season and draft and the coach agrees that is another situation.

[scorekeeper]

Punish is probably the wrong word. But if its Travel Ball and kids and parents knew it was a small squad that required good attendance committment I would ask for that committment and if it was not forthcoming I think the team is well within its rights to look for new players or the very least the no shows would not get as quality playing time when they did show up.

Committment is one of the principals playing sports helps teach. What does it say to the kids that don't follow through on it and the team that has to suffer due others not showing committment? If the parent and player are up front before the season and draft and the coach agrees that is another situation.

I’m assuming you were responding to me.

I agree that those issues should be thoroughly discussed and taken care of in advance of the players actually being chosen for the team. That way a lot of “ISSUES” are avoided.

But I disagree that the players have a whole lot of say in it. The parents are always the final authority, even if they ask the kids whether they want to go to a basketball or baseball tournament, parents make the final decision.

[AgentX]

Punish is probably the wrong word. But if its Travel Ball and kids and parents knew it was a small squad that required good attendance committment I would ask for that committment and if it was not forthcoming I think the team is well within its rights to look for new players or the very least the no shows would not get as quality playing time when they did show up.

Committment is one of the principals playing sports helps teach. What does it say to the kids that don't follow through on it and the team that has to suffer due others not showing committment? If the parent and player are up front before the season and draft and the coach agrees that is another situation.

You should also consider the fact that a kid who is active in numerous sports is getting a lot more activity and exercise than the kid who only plays and is committed to one.

Therefore, sitting a kid who couldn't make practice because of his basketball/soccer/lacrosse tournament is probably giving the kid some much-needed downtime. The one-sport players, you don't have to worry about so much.

[Ursa Major]

I think it makes a huge difference if this is:

A. a 'pay to play' travel team where the parents essentially hire the coach to develop their kids and find good competition, or

B. an existing, elite travel ball squad where kids are invited onto the team based on skill, even if they also have to make a major financial commitment.

In situation A, it's the parents who call the shots and they should establish honestly among themselves before the season starts what their kids' other commitments will be and decide roster sizes accordingly. If everyone went into the season committing to make the team their top priority, but are now reneging by pulling the kid into other sports, they have to answer to the other parents.

In situation B, the rules and commitments from the players should be set out ahead of time by the coaches, with the number of permissible absences clealy dictated.

It sounds like your situation is a heavy dose of situation A populated by jerk parents, who neither want their kid to have to sit on the bench NOR give up his other sport activities. The fault may be with the whole group in not setting ups some kind of sanction against families who mislead (and don't keep their commitment to) the other families. Yeah, you shouldn't "punish" the kids of the jerks, but -- as between them and the kids whose families play it honestly -- I'd reward the latter group. Just keep the punishment commensurate with the transgression.

And this is all in 10u ball? Sheesh. Let 'em be kids, for cryin' out loud!

[Jake Patterson]

I think it makes a huge difference if this is:

A. a 'pay to play' travel team where the parents essentially hire the coach to develop their kids and find good competition, or

B. an existing, elite travel ball squad where kids are invited onto the team based on skill, even if they also have to make a major financial commitment.


Both scenarios are problematic at this age. The emphasis at this age should be placed on playing and having fun.

[The Football Ref]

I started this thread because I felt the boys who made the effort to drive 90 minutes to this tourney should get the nod to play over kids leaving for other sports. I just wasn't sure if I was in a very small group of people that thought that way or not.

The coaches we have are fathers of 3 of the 11 players on the team. No one gets paid a dime. They do it because they love to do it.

We are not an elite team. We are a bunch of well behaved kids who love to play, and who happened to show a little bit of talent in the coach pitch league a few years ago. The fathers who were interested in creating a program like this, got it going when they were 8.

My son, wife, and I, made a commitment to a team that we were told everyone else made as well. If the coaches don't make any concrete rules for next year, They'll wind up with 8 for similar conflicts because my son will be playing Basketball too.


Good info from everyone. Thanks !

[korp]

Sometimes teams have some "reserve players" incase something like that happens. Where maybe they don't have to pay or pay a small amount and get used when needed.

[Jake Patterson]

We are not an elite team. Ref, (Not directed at you, but a comment in general) I think this is part of the overall problem. Implyinging there are elite players at 11 is ludicrous IMO.
Jake

[The Football Ref]

I hear ya.

My definition of an elite team at this level is a team like you see in Williamsport. An all star squad put together from pieces of other teams throughout an entire league.

[Ursa Major]

TheFootballRef said: My son, wife, and I, made a commitment to a team that we were told everyone else made as well. If the coaches don't make any concrete rules for next year, They'll wind up with 8 for similar conflicts because my son will be playing Basketball too.
This is akin to the situation A scenario I posited. You'd like to think that, with a longstanding relationship among the families, a formal set of rules aren't necessary -- but obviously they are. The crime here is that it didn't have to be this way. All that would have been required was for the parents trying to have their kids play in two sports to be honest about it so that the rosters could have been expanded to account for the foreseeable absences. And, yes, these manipulative (or shortsighted) parents will discover that -- because of their actions -- their child either will not have a team to play on for the reason you mentioned, or no one will want to have their kid on a team.

Obviously, a punitive provision imposed after the other parents have made a commitment to the other sports leagues will make no one happy. There's a world of difference between sanctions imposed only after a kid knew the rules and made a conscious decision that some other sport tournament was more important, and those imposed 'on the fly' when the parents thought maybe the coach would overlook the absence.

[Jake Patterson]

This is akin to the situation A scenario I posited. You'd like to think that, with a longstanding relationship among the families, a formal set of rules aren't necessary -- but obviously they are. The crime here is that it didn't have to be this way. All that would have been required was for the parents trying to have their kids play in two sports to be honest about it so that the rosters could have been expanded to account for the foreseeable absences. And, yes, these manipulative (or shortsighted) parents will discover that -- because of their actions -- their child either will not have a team to play on for the reason you mentioned, or no one will want to have their kid on a team.

Obviously, a punitive provision imposed after the other parents have made a commitment to the other sports leagues will make no one happy. There's a world of difference between sanctions imposed only after a kid knew the rules and made a conscious decision that some other sport tournament was more important, and those imposed 'on the fly' when the parents thought maybe the coach would overlook the absence.UM this post prompted another thought... I feel with family law there are implicit and explicit items. Never giving my mother the finger for instance was implied. I knew if this infraction occurred dad would insure I went to my room with nine digits.

What we have done with our children as a society is changed much of what used to be implied. The biggest in my mind, is young children should play. Children have played since man first walked upright as a means for them to learn about life and the develop the skills they will need to become well-rounded productive adults. Most of their play activities mimic life in some way.

When we take that aspect of their lives and prematurely turn it into an adult activity (competitive organized ball with hard-fast rules) we ruin the opportunity for them to learn in a more well-rounded fashion.

Mke sense?

[baseballdad]

I agree. But as there should be time for play, there is a time for structured play with rules. We "played" and many times it was baseball in our backyards. But when we tried out for organized ball, we knew that would be different. Both were good experiences. IMO this case we are talking about the latter and whether committment to a team is something that a child and parent should be responsible for.

[wogdoggy]

I want to make sure I understand what you’re saying. It sounds like you advocate punishing children because they follow the course of action their parents set for them.

i think he's saying the parents should have some common sense

[AgentX]

i think he's saying the parents should have some common sense
And mankind should live in peace and harmony!

[Rhinos]

I coach and manage a travel baseball team as well as two little league teams. I also coach a rec soccer 10U team and I've run into problems like this all too often. Makes me wonder alot whether we let our children participate in too much. I know I never did all that they do. There wasn't even such a thing as a travel program where I grew up.

For soccer I actually asked the league to forbid anyone to register for the rec league who was an active member of a travel group. I know this sounds nasty - not allowing a child to play if they want but, in this case I think it makes sense.

They don't draft, they assign players to a team based on a previous year's grading system. If this is your first year playing, well, roll the dice.

Say you have a 10 player roster; 3 are well above average, 3 are well below average and 4 are average. Chances are 2 of 3 of the well above average are also involved in a travel program. More than usual, the travel games are held on the same day as the rec games and bango, you're playing without your top players. Also, you always have to accept that 1 or 2 of the other players just don't show up for whatever reason and you'll looking at a forfeit, and all because there are players on your rec team who also play on travel teams. It's not fare to the players who play on a rec team who show up week after week.

[Ursa Major]

UM this post prompted another thought... I feel with family law there are implicit and explicit items. Never giving my mother the finger for instance was implied. I knew if this infraction occurred dad would insure I went to my room with nine digits.

What we have done with our children as a society is changed much of what used to be implied. The biggest in my mind, is young children should play. Children have played since man first walked upright as a means for them to learn about life and the develop the skills they will need to become well-rounded productive adults. Most of their play activities mimic life in some way.

When we take that aspect of their lives and prematurely turn it into an adult activity (competitive organized ball with hard-fast rules) we ruin the opportunity for them to learn in a more well-rounded fashion.

Mke sense?Jake, I think you're trying to put implied rules and implied values in one basket, where they may not fit together. Implied rules are fine when (a) you have an agreed-upon arbiter (i.e., Dad) to resolve any matters, and (b) you accept that arbitrary decisions may be made. Here, the parents are independent actors with more disparate objectives (usually, the success of their kids), so there is less acquiescence to the ultimate authority of a third person, so you need to have rules ahead of time.

Now, we may be deluded in thinking that implied rules are not so necessary because the other actors are presumed to have the same values as you possess -- namely, adhering to commitments. And, if that shared value existed in all families, the problem likely wouldn't occur. But, sometimes it's good to have even among friends clear rules so that no one harbors grudges arising from differeing assumptions about what the "implied rules" are, just like even people who want to commit to a lifetime of marriage together may find it advisable to have a prenuptial agreement.

[The Football Ref]

This past July, the Basketball Nationals and the Baseball Nationals were not on the same week and we didn't have to worry about being down any guys.

August 1st is right around the corner and the new season will begin.

As the new season starts, do you guys think I have the right, based on my financial and time commitment, to ask the people involved, which one they will decide to participate in, if the Nationals for both sports are the same week next summer ?

I know it should be something the coaches ask, but one of them is involved.

[AL_DAD]

As a parent I am told that if my son wants to play on the Williamsport tournament, he and us must be 100% commited. We are not allowed to take any vactions and/or miss a practice. Since June 15, we have had 45 practices and about 5 games (Due to LL schedules). We won our District, now we need to will our Section.

[calgofo]

This past July, the Basketball Nationals and the Baseball Nationals were not on the same week and we didn't have to worry about being down any guys.

August 1st is right around the corner and the new season will begin.

As the new season starts, do you guys think I have the right, based on my financial and time commitment, to ask the people involved, which one they will decide to participate in, if the Nationals for both sports are the same week next summer ?

I know it should be something the coaches ask, but one of them is involved.


This is baseball 101 forum and baseball should take priority. Basketball is not a good sport. Incredibly tall people knocking others down and slamming ball through hoop. Little people running half way down the court and passing to big people trying to slam ball in hoop. Short people standing to far away from basket and shooting from the stands and missing most of the time. Anyone playing basketball should be jailed (and in many instances have been) The decision is easy. :D

[Jake Patterson]

This is baseball 101 forum and baseball should take priority. Basketball is not a good sport. Incredibly tall people knocking others down and slamming ball through hoop. Little people running half way down the court and passing to big people trying to slam ball in hoop. Short people standing to far away from basket and shooting from the stands and missing most of the time. Anyone playing basketball should be jailed (and in many instances have been) The decision is easy. :DI respectfully disagree. After coaching both sports - baseball for 40 seasons and basketball for 13, I find basketball much more team orientated. The game (either baseball or basketball) is not about the idiots who make the news for bad things, it's about us and the kids learning good things.
Jake
101 Mod

[Blackhat]

Baseball is great, football is great, basketball is great. All sports are great, except soccer. My son says the reason soccer players don't use their hands is because they're afraid they'll break a nail.

[calgofo]

I respectfully disagree. After coaching both sports - baseball for 40 seasons and basketball for 13, I find basketball much more team orientated. The game (either baseball or basketball) is not about the idiots who make the news for bad things, it's about us and the kids learning good things.
Jake
101 Mod


See, this is one of the problems of communicating over the internet. Jokes fall flat. It was a joke Jake. :ooo:

[calgofo]

Baseball is great, football is great, basketball is great. All sports are great, except soccer. My son says the reason soccer players don't use their hands is because they're afraid they'll break a nail.



Agreed. Soccer is bad and is mostly played well by communist heathen countries. Long haired men with three old day facial hair,who, when mearely touched by opposing players, roll all over the field as if attacked by Rambo. There is also no scientific evidence supporting that what little scoring they do, is any greater, statitically, than pure luck.

The U.S. recent success has me worried for our country :D


(It's an attempt at humor Jake) :gt

[Blackhat]

Agreed. Soccer is bad and is mostly played well by communist heathen countries. Long haired men with three old day facial hair,who, when mearely touched by opposing players, roll all over the field as if attacked by Rambo. There is also no scientific evidence supporting that what little scoring they do, is any greater, statitically, than pure luck.

The U.S. recent success has me worried for our country :D


(It's an attempt at humor Jake) :gt

I wasn't joking. I hate the game of soccer, but do admit it is great exercise for kids.

Jason Whitlock was doing one of those Q&A sessions for Foxsports the other day: http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/9868264

Question: "Do you think soccer will ever be a dominate sport in the USA?"

Jason Whitlock: "Hell no. If it happens, I'm moving somewhere... hmm, probably no place to move. Hell no. I hope it never happens. That's one of the great pleasures of living in America. I can ignore soccer."

I'm not a big fan of Whitlock but statements like this may get me to read his column more often.