Push Block Push

[rkbenn]

Trying to get my 10 y/o too understand this process. Any ideas? I get the first push and the block, but no second push in regards to the lower half. He's getting over his front foot. This is leading to a downward path with the barrel for some reason which leads to gounders and popups.

[HYP]

Trying to get my 10 y/o too understand this process. Any ideas? I get the first push and the block, but no second push in regards to the lower half. He's getting over his front foot. This is leading to a downward path with the barrel for some reason which leads to gounders and popups.

Do you have video?

I have seen what you are describing. I'll make a guess. He is pushing with the back leg, which is shifting his weight to the front foot. Hands havn't started yet so he feels the need to get the hands in front. So he pulls his hands forward and then pushes them out. This is not quite enough so he tries to lean back with his upperbody, to try to force the hands in front of his body. The hands end up getting pushed down, which will lead to weak pop ups and weak grounders.

I wouldn't talk to him about push block push. IMO it can send the wrong message, especially to a young kid. When he hears push he is pushing, as in extending the rear leg, as in jumping. Get his weight over his rear hip, inside of his rear leg/foot. Turn the rear hip back, suck it in. Lead hip butt cheek shown to the pitcher. Tell him to push with his rear hip. Thrust the rear hip. The hip thrust is coming from the middle. Yes there is a push off of the ground because his feet are on the ground but do not think about pushing off of the ground.

Push with the rear hip, not rear foot and catch the weight/swing with the front foot.

[rkbenn]

Do you have video?

I have seen what you are describing. I'll make a guess. He is pushing with the back leg, which is shifting his weight to the front foot. Hands havn't started yet so he feels the need to get the hands in front. So he pulls his hands forward and then pushes them out. This is not quite enough so he tries to lean back with his upperbody, to try to force the hands in front of his body. The hands end up getting pushed down, which will lead to weak pop ups and weak grounders.

I wouldn't talk to him about push block push. IMO it can send the wrong message, especially to a young kid. When he hears push he is pushing, as in extending the rear leg, as in jumping. Get his weight over his rear hip, inside of his rear leg/foot. Turn the rear hip back, suck it in. Lead hip butt cheek shown to the pitcher. Tell him to push with his rear hip. Thrust the rear hip. The hip thrust is coming from the middle. Yes there is a push off of the ground because his feet are on the ground but do not think about pushing off of the ground.

Push with the rear hip, not rear foot and catch the weight/swing with the front foot.

Dagunnit, you are exactly right. He is doing exactly what you described! Even down to the lean, which I didn't include!

[Diesel]

So does the back leg push or is it more of a crash?

[HYP]

So does the back leg push or is it more of a crash?

Don't know if your asking me or not.

The back leg is pushing without straightening. Problem is when you tell someone to push with the back leg they tend to straighten it or just push which creates a linear move versus rotational.

If you concentrate on pushing with the rear hip you will get a rotational push. It is very hard for me to explain. Create a firm rear leg. Allow your weight to sit into the rear hip socket and now drive that rear hip forward. The lead hip will clear and the rear hip will be thrust forward. Now instead of the weight shifting then swinging. You are shifting and swinging.

jbooth is pretty good at describing the hip action. Maybe he can chime in.

[rkbenn]

So does the back leg push or is it more of a crash?

He is definitly pushing off his back leg, and drifts forward.

I need to get a new video recorder so I can post a vid.

[rkbenn]

Don't know if your asking me or not.

The back leg is pushing without straightening. Problem is when you tell someone to push with the back leg they tend to straighten it or just push which creates a linear move versus rotational.

If you concentrate on pushing with the rear hip you will get a rotational push. It is very hard for me to explain. Create a firm rear leg. Allow your weight to sit into the rear hip socket and now drive that rear hip forward. The lead hip will clear and the rear hip will be thrust forward. Now instead of the weight shifting then swinging. You are shifting and swinging.

jbooth is pretty good at describing the hip action. Maybe he can chime in.


Will the Hip Drill correct this. Ie. Bat on the hips and hit the ball off the tee?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Trying to get my 10 y/o too understand this process. Any ideas? I get the first push and the block, but no second push in regards to the lower half. He's getting over his front foot. This is leading to a downward path with the barrel for some reason which leads to gounders and popups.

http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/Videos/BatAccelerationDuringFrontLegPushBack.gif

[HYP]

Will the Hip Drill correct this. Ie. Bat on the hips and hit the ball off the tee?

I have personally never did this drill with my son yet. But i think it could help. I wouldn't set the tee to far forward. You are trying to stop him from going onto his front foot.

Here is a clip of my sons hips. They are not perfect but I can attest to what he is feeling and what the cues are. He is thinking about pushing with the rear hip. Thrusting it forward. the feeling he has is that of a drive from the middle. He feels the load in his rear hip. A tightness in his rear butt cheek and his lower back above his rear hip.

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/t3hips.gif

[HYP]

http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/Videos/BatAccelerationDuringFrontLegPushBack.gif

FFS,

In the clip you provided is this the portion of the swing where the push, block, push happens?

[FiveFrameSwing]

The last 'push' is considered a push backwards with the front leg. Notice the front leg straightening as the bat barrel accelerates.

For many students simply speaking of the 'shift' (your first push ... back leg ... fueled by the muscles near the rear glute ... and hence the common reference to the rear 'hip') and the 'throw' is sufficient (some speak of "hips & hands" and essentially mean the same thing). You as the hitting instructor should be observing the front leg for this action ... and if it isn't there (e.g., lack of front leg flexion at the start of blocking process, etc.) then you'll want to make modifications/recommendations for improvement. However, most kids do not need to be made aware of the push backwards with the front leg, and if they simply "block" with a front flexed leg, then this push back is pretty much automatic ... and hence merely teaching "blocking" is often sufficient.

[rkbenn]

I have personally never did this drill with my son yet. But i think it could help. I wouldn't set the tee to far forward. You are trying to stop him from going onto his front foot.

Here is a clip of my sons hips. They are not perfect but I can attest to what he is feeling and what the cues are. He is thinking about pushing with the rear hip. Thrusting it forward. the feeling he has is that of a drive from the middle. He feels the load in his rear hip. A tightness in his rear butt cheek and his lower back above his rear hip.

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/t3hips.gif

okay, got it. so thrust the rear hip forward would be his cue then?

[HYP]

The last 'push' is considered a push backwards with the front leg. Notice the front leg straightening as the bat barrel accelerates.

For many students simply speaking of the 'shift' (your first push ... back leg ... fueled by the muscles near the rear glute ... and hence the common reference to the rear 'hip') and the 'throw' is sufficient (some speak of "hips & hands" and essentially mean the same thing). You as the hitting instructor should be observing the front leg for this action ... and if it isn't there (e.g., lack of front leg flexion at the start of blocking process, etc.) then you'll want to make modifications/recommendations for improvement. However, most kids do not need to be made aware of the push backwards with the front leg, and if they simply "block" with a front flexed leg, then this push back is pretty much automatic ... and hence merely teaching "blocking" is often sufficient.

Thanks for the explanation.

What I have found is that when I say push with the back leg to get started. The hitter generally pushes with the leg. Driving the weight onto the front foot and the back leg wants to straighten. Have you seen this happen with some of your students?

When I use the cue push with the rear hip. I teand to get the desired affect I was looking for.

[rkbenn]

The last 'push' is considered a push backwards with the front leg. Notice the front leg straightening as the bat barrel accelerates.

For many students simply speaking of the 'shift' (your first push ... back leg ... fueled by the muscles near the rear glute ... and hence the common reference to the rear 'hip') and the 'throw' is sufficient (some speak of "hips & hands" and essentially mean the same thing). You as the hitting instructor should be observing the front leg for this action ... and if it isn't there (e.g., lack of front leg flexion at the start of blocking process, etc.) then you'll want to make modifications/recommendations for improvement. However, most kids do not need to be made aware of the push backwards with the front leg, and if they simply "block" with a front flexed leg, then this push back is pretty much automatic ... and hence merely teaching "blocking" is often sufficient.

FFS,

do you ever see kids block and the top drift towards the pitcher?

[HYP]

okay, got it. so thrust the rear hip forward would be his cue then?

Yes. we use different ones at times. But all are related to pushing with th rear hip.

Such as, Get the rear hip out of the way, thrust the rear hip, push with the rear hip and clear the rear hip.

I see the question asked of FFS. What you describe is what I see when push with th rear leg is used. If you use push with the rear hip or clear the rear hip. The head will tend to stay back along with the upperbody and your hitter will stay behind the ball and not next to it.

[rkbenn]

Yes. we use different ones at times. But all are related to pushing with th rear hip.

Such as, Get the rear hip out of the way, thrust the rear hip, push with the rear hip and clear the rear hip.

would it be better to start without a stride?

[Coach C]

Thanks for the explanation.

What I have found is that when I say push with the back leg to get started. The hitter generally pushes with the leg. Driving the weight onto the front foot and the back leg wants to straighten. Have you seen this happen with some of your students?

When I use the cue push with the rear hip. I teand to get the desired affect I was looking for.

My experience as well. I have my son do this when he’s on deck since our age has to stay in the dugout and can’t swing while on deck. So he will put the bat behind his back, and practice driving the hip while on deck.

[HYP]

would it be better to start without a stride?

From my expereince yes. My son use to stride but he had a real hard time in maintaining his rear hip load. Going to the no stride helped him feel the rear hip load and gave him the ability to maintain it.

If he wants, he can later change to a stride if he feels it to be neccesary.

Did you see my edited post above your post? About your question to FFS.

[rkbenn]

From my expereince yes. My son use to stride but he had a real hard time in maintaining his rear hip load. Going to the no stride helped him feel the rear hip load and gave him the ability to maintain it.

If he wants, he can later change to a stride if he feels it to be neccesary.

Did you see my edited post above your post? About your question to FFS.

darn, i must have missed it. it makes total sense now. thank you.

[FiveFrameSwing]

FFS,

do you ever see kids block and the top drift towards the pitcher?

Sure ... had to correct that one of my hitters recently.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Thanks for the explanation.

What I have found is that when I say push with the back leg to get started. The hitter generally pushes with the leg. Driving the weight onto the front foot and the back leg wants to straighten. Have you seen this happen with some of your students?

When I use the cue push with the rear hip. I teand to get the desired affect I was looking for.

Try initiating that push with the rear glute. Sure ... you'll feel a push against the ground, but it isn't the muscles in the foot that are fueling this push.

[rkbenn]

Sure ... had to correct that one of my hitters recently.

How did u correct it?

[FiveFrameSwing]

How did u correct it?

Emphasized fueling the shift with the rear glute muscles. Have this kid using the cue "glutes and hands" ... works for this particular kid.

[rkbenn]

Emphasized fueling the shift with the rear glute muscles. Have this kid using the cue "glutes and hands" ... works for this particular kid.

Okay, I just have my kid and this other kid. It's the bad habits that are hard for curtain player to break.

[rkbenn]

Emphasized fueling the shift with the rear glute muscles. Have this kid using the cue "glutes and hands" ... works for this particular kid.

We are talking squeezing the glutes right?

[FiveFrameSwing]

We are talking squeezing the glutes right?

I haven't thought of it so much as 'squeezing'.

Technically, gluteus maximus is a muscle and thus "contracts". In the process of contracting it pulls the bones/levers to create movement.

Try performing a sidearm throw of an 8lb medicine ball and you'll get the feel of "glutes & hands". IMO, this drill helps the student "feel" the muscles responsible for fueling the 'shift'.

[baseballislife2008]

I haven't thought of it so much as 'squeezing'.

Technically, gluteus maximus is a muscle and thus "contracts". In the process of contracting it pulls the bones/levers to create movement.

Try performing a sidearm throw of an 8lb medicine ball and you'll get the feel of "glutes & hands". IMO, this drill helps the student "feel" the muscles responsible for fueling the 'shift'.

wow cool I actually have an 8lb medicine ball. should i just hold it with two hands and stand in my stance and just push off the back foot and side arm throw it into a wall with both hands mimicking a swing the best that i can???

[collegeStar]

Trying to get my 10 y/o too understand this process. Any ideas? I get the first push and the block, but no second push in regards to the lower half. He's getting over his front foot. This is leading to a downward path with the barrel for some reason which leads to gounders and popups.

Yeager is the father of Load/Push Block /Push

You should contact him.

www.DrYeagersBaseball.com

[FiveFrameSwing]

wow cool I actually have an 8lb medicine ball. should i just hold it with two hands and stand in my stance and just push off the back foot and side arm throw it into a wall with both hands mimicking a swing the best that i can???

IMO the push that you feel with your back foot should be fueld by the glutes.

[baseballislife2008]

IMO the push that you feel with your back foot should be fueld by the glutes.

Yeah I know. That's where I feel it when I push. I don't feel it in my calf or quad. I feel it in the powerful hip extensor (the rear glute).

So would you say it's not a bad idea to do these then follow it immediately with some swings off a tee. That way we can really drill muscle memory to load that rear glute and fire off it??

[new2thesport]

For many students simply speaking of the 'shift' (your first push ... back leg ... fueled by the muscles near the rear glute ... and hence the common reference to the rear 'hip') and the 'throw' is sufficient (some speak of "hips & hands" and essentially mean the same thing). .

I haven't thought of it so much as 'squeezing'.

Technically, gluteus maximus is a muscle and thus "contracts". In the process of contracting it pulls the bones/levers to create movement.

.

IMO the push that you feel with your back foot should be fueld by the glutes.

FiveFrameSwing, so your first post is incorrect? It is actually the glutes and not muscles near the rear glutes? (hamstrings)

[jbooth]

We are talking squeezing the glutes right?

If you want to get technical; the move is an abduction of the rear femur, which is accomplished mostly from the gluteus medius.

It's sort of like trying to push your rear foot toward the back of the batter's box. You can't, because your cleats are keeping it from sliding, so that muscle action moves the hip forward, because the foot can't go backward. You push the foot backwards to make the hip go forward.

Make sense? :crazy:waving

[rkbenn]

If you want to get technical; the move is an abduction of the rear femur, which is accomplished mostly from the gluteus medius.

It's sort of like trying to push your rear foot toward the back of the batter's box. You can't, because your cleats are keeping it from sliding, so that muscle action moves the hip forward, because the foot can't go backward. You push the foot backwards to make the hip go forward.

Make sense? :crazy:waving

Jim, you have away with words! That's something a young kid can understand.