Need a little help with batting line up?

[bluefan89]

Hello:


Have a group of 8-9 yr. olds playing coach pitch.....we are early in the season and have about 3-4 that just can't find the ball and hit.

We have not had a lot of practice time, due to weather and other factors. Anyway I think with some more work they will eventually get their timing down and be able to catch up with the ball.

So the other 5-6 players are hitting pretty well, but at the moment where would you hide or place those 3-4 that are struggling?


Thanks

[jbolt_2000]

At that level I would pepper them in after a couple of good hitters. I would put one in after 2-3 good hitters, then again after another 2 or 3 good hitters.

Even at this age the kids know that the 7,8,9 spot are for the worst hitters. Putting them there just kills their confidence I think. Let the team know that it doesn't matter what order you bat in and spread them out. I would even put in a few good hitters at those 7,8,9 spots to show the team you are serious.

I did this last year with 9-10 year olds with continuous batting order. We had 14 players in the line-up and 4 that could not hit at all in the beginning of the season. Knowing that they were most likely going to get out I would place them after a couple of good hitters so that I wasn't getting into a situation where I would get three outs in a row or leave bases loaded.

Later in the season they became better hitters and it wasn't such an issue.

[HYP]

Not to sound like an a** but at that age does it really matter?

If it does and you don't want to hurt the confidence of the weaker hitters. Move the weaker hitters around in the lineup. But always try to have your strongest hitters batting together in the order. ex. SH=strong hitter WH=weak hitter

1.SH
2.SH
3.SH
4.WH
5.WH
6.WH
7.SH
8.SH
9.SH

or some variation.

Reason is you will give your strong hitters the chance to score more runs for you. When the weaker hitters come up you just have to take your chances and your lumps for that inning.

[Rufus67]

I agree with JBolt. I've done that this year in every game we've played over two years and it's not been an issue (having anyone in the lineup hit, however, is a different story for another day). Last year I did this and probably my weakest hitter was batting 3rd in the order and playing 3rd to start the game. He actually went to go tell his mom, that's how excited he was. I lost my scorebook so I don't remember how he actually did, but it's really irrelevant as it was hopefully a good memory for him (this is rec ball, btw).

My son used to get frustrated with me when I move him around the order so I had to remind him it's about giving other kids a chance, not that he's done anything wrong. I also made sure to let him know that if anything I'm expecting him to shore up the bottom of the order. He understands it more now and performs well (i.e., gives the same high effort) regardless of where he's put in the order.

[rkbenn]

I agree with HYPs first part. Have fun, mix it up.

[4pointDoc]

I might try something like (using hyp's notation):
1 SH
2 SH
3 WH
4 SH
5 SH
6 WH
7 SH
8 WH
9 SH

I would also switch up the order game by game at the coach pitch age. I tried doing this a few years ago and it worked out fairly well for our coach pitch team.

[All-StarLF1713]

try to take them to an indoor batting cage

[coach scotty]

Unfortunately there is no real way to hide them. You can spread them out and take a chance with them almost always being up with a runner on or you can lump them together and take your chances with a 3 and out inning.

Some coaches believe their job is to let the kids have a fun and enjoyable experience with no one getting there self esteem damaged in any way. If this is your case then bat them by order of appearance at the field or by jersey number.

Some coaches feel their job is to put the team in the best possible position to win. That the good of 10 is better than the feelings of 2. If this is your case bat them at the bottom of the order. After all the lead off hitter will get the most at bats and the last hitter will get the least.

If your some where in the middle then maybe spread them out or move them around. The point is no matter which strategy you take it can be beneficial or back fire on you and some parent and kid is going to be upset.

Personally I break them up into power and contact hitters. I number them 1,2 or 3 with 1 being an infield hitter, 2 being an infield hitter with the occasional ability to hit to the outfield and three being your top power hitters. Then I put them into random groups the best I can with a 1,2 and 3 hitter. For example 12 kids would be 4 groups. I don't factor in their ability to make contact just the power they have when they do. Then at the end of practice we will brake the groups up and let them have a scrimmage of sorts with the winning team being the 123 hitters the second place team being 456 and so on and so forth. I try to do this game every couple of weeks or every 4 to 5 games if the practice schedule allows. I redo the groups every time. Trying to make them as even as possible.

[Ursa Major]

Scotty said: "Some coaches feel their job is to put the team in the best possible position to win."
Scotty, this is coach pitch, frevvinsakes!!

Blue, you don't say exactly how bad they are. Do they never make contact, or can't they get it past the pitcher, or what? If they can make contact, go ahead and slip 'em in every third batter, so at least they have a chance to move the runners along.

And, yes, juggle the lineup frequently, so that kids -- and most importantly dads -- will realize that it's not an ego or reward issue. That will save you grief that can come from the "my son got three hits last game and why is he still batting sixth?" crowd. And maybe some kid who's feeling really tentative will break out a little when you announce, "And, Big Timmy is batting clean-up!"

For kids who just can't get the bat around to make contact, you might try having 'em rest the bat along their back bicep, have 'em tilt over a little bit, and then tell 'em to spin their hips and back shoulder at the ball. Even the most pencil-armed geeks can get the bat around that way, as arm and wrist strength is completely removed from the equation. It'll be the pitcher's job to put the ball where the kid's swing is going.

[Jake Patterson]

Some coaches feel their job is to put the team in the best possible position to win. This is such an easy problem to solve I am always amazed why coaches like this exist at this level.

[bluefan89]

Thanks for the replies...lots of good info.

as for the batters getting the bat around....most of those are able to take a good cut at the ball...just no contact and I have tried to get parents to work with them at home....only so much can get done in a 1hr/per week.

I am hoping as the season moves along we will get to making some contact. Might have to slow the pitching down for those 4 that are struggling.


Thanks

[RodCarew]

This is such an easy problem to solve I am always amazed why coaches like this exist at this level.

At what age is it ok for a coach to put winning as a priority over trying to make it "fun" for everyone?

It starts in the 3rd grade in the area I live in .. and it doesn't really bother me.... I see some tremendous value in having kids see that the better players will play in key spots more than the weaker kids.. it gives the weaker kids incentive to work harder and improve.

Sure, you want all the kids to have fun and enjoy it - it is just a game after all - but teaching kids that no matter what you do - you will get to play as much as everyone else is not really a good life lesson to teach to kids.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dakai]

Competitive ball, in my opinion, STARTS at LL majors (12yo). Anything prior to that is the coaches ego being inflicted upon a bunch of little kids.
Try batting them by uniform number, then switch the next game to reverse the order.

[bluefan89]

It is pretty competitive here in this "good ole boy league" the team that has the best record during the season coaches the all-stars and has a impact on selecting team....so you know what that is a recipe for.

I try to win but make it fun for the players...were are only about 5 deep on a 11 player team.


Some have talked about ditching the league for travel but that might not be much better. Going to be checking in on the travel option for the future though.

Thanks Guys

[AgentX]

If you're going to be competing anyway, travel makes more sense.

But CP travel is a joke. You really DON'T want to be involved in a league where people think you can have competitive play with a coach on the field. I'd also recommend that if you want to do travel, play on an existing team first before starting your own.

As for the batting order, I've found that mixing your power hitters with your weaker (contact) hitters works very well, especially in a CBO (where everyone bats in the lineup regardless of whether they play in the field).

Unlike when you have to structure around substitutions (which could trade power for contact or speed or patience or a certain strikeout), your CBO will remain stable all game long. And since speed isn't very important in Coach-Pitch, you won't run into any trouble putting a smaller, speedy runner behind the chubby power hitter who runs like a cow.

However, I would recommend using the #2 spot as a reward for the weaker hitter who made contact last game or showed up to every practice or otherwise "earns" it. I'd do the same with the #5 spot. Incentive is VERY important at this age, because the kids are still trying to figure out whether or not they even like baseball. If they get rewarded for their efforts, they tend to stay with it. It's the kids who never get encouraged who drop out.

[bluefan89]

I am using the #2 spot as the reward spot but...man there are 5 that can hit consistantly..and 5 that can't.....driving us crazy.

The pitching coming in to them is a good level pitch not the lobs that sometimes come with CP baseball. May be a little fast for some so we try to adjust the speed a little.

They ones not hitting are just late so we tell them to swing a little early....but strike still.

What has anyone do or done to get players to quicken the swing.

Thanks

[skipper5]

"The pitching coming in to them is a good level pitch not the lobs that sometimes come with CP baseball. May be a little fast for some so we try to adjust the speed a little."

I'm willing to bet the speed varies a few mph from pitch to pitch, and that the balls are sinking through the strike zone to some degree. That's a definition of hard-to-hit pitching.

IMO the weaker 8 yr olds would be more successful if they were machine pitched so that they got a flatter pitch at a consistent speed in a more consistent location. That would ignite a thirst for hitting (instead of a hangover of failure) that would carry over into live-pitch down the road.

The more advanced 8 yo kids could hit machine or coach-pitch with a bag over their heads. It's the development of the bottom six that determines the health of your league.

For that matter, HS hitters want a straight pitch to hit! They hate the sinking stuff.

[AgentX]

I wouldn't worry about the pitch being too fast. You're doing the right thing throwing a little harder to keep it on a line rather than tossing rainbows.

IME, kids can catch up to pitches at this age. The problem comes from elsewhere.

Most common problems I've seen in CP is that players come out of teeball having learned to swing up at the ball. In teeball, this is how you get the ball out of the infield. And players who've done CP with a coach who rainbows is just as likely to do so, just trying to level the stroke with the pitch.

The other most common problem is seeing the ball. They stride big, move their heads, and it makes the ball move. The BEST drill for this is to soft toss them two balls at a time. Stack them in your hand so one is above the other, then call it when it's in the air: "Top" or "bottom" and have the kid hit the ball you call. It's amazing how much better kids this age will hit when they HAVE to focus on the ball.

What has anyone do or done to get players to quicken the swing.
What I've done for this is the drop drill. Hold the ball as high over the plate as possible, count down "1,2,3" and then drop it. The ball falls pretty quickly, so they will have to speed up their swing to catch up to it. They will probably miss a lot at first. If they start to get frustrated, use your glove instead and then work up to the ball.

I really don't like telling players to "start their swing earlier" because it becomes problematic as they move up. When they start facing live pitching from peers, they tend to swing early and slow down their stroke to keep the bat in the zone longer. They often decide whether they are going to swing before the pitch is even thrown.

Most of the 11/12yos I've coached have no idea how quick they really are, and it's a LOT harder to teach kids that age how to stay back on a pitch, especially when they are facing 60mph pitches.

IMO, you should really emphasize pitch selection in CP. They need to watch the pitch long enough to figure out if it's worth swinging at. It will speed up their swings and help them be more patient and discriminating at the plate. Even if the player strikes out, remember to praise him for picking a good pitch to swing at.

[bluefan89]

You are probably right skipper some do drop at the plate...a few outside...but not like some of the teams where the coaches pitching throw behind, or hit the batters at times.


A machine would be great we have discussed that but no go with the system in place.

So we are stuck with trying to get the batters to liven up their swings....if anyone has suggestions we are all ears.


Thanks

[AgentX]

A machine would be great we have discussed that but no go with the system in place.

I've got issues with the machine concept.

You've got to recognize that you're teaching young hitters timing, and that timing starts with the beginning of the pitching motion. Having a machine spit balls out at a player does NOT help them develop this timing.

Most CP coaches also fail to recognize this. This is why they throw rainbows. They have the mindset that velocity is everything, and it's not. They also have to deal with the fact that Mommy is usually sitting in the stands, so they try to don kid gloves as much as possible.

Without a doubt, the most successful hitting in CP starts with the pitching.

Honestly, the BIGGEST thing you can do as a CP pitcher to help your players is to practice your pitching so that: A) you throw the ball just hard enough so that it flies in a straight path, B) you use a consistent delivery, including a "windup" so your players can develop their timing, and C) you SHOW THEM THE BALL as soon as possible in your delivery.

Try this:
(assuming you're right-handed) Start with your feet even and the ball straight out in front of you. Step forward with your left foot as you windmill the ball down and around, bringing it up high over your head before releasing it. I've found that this allows for a consistent motion and speed while allowing the kids to see the ball better. Because it is a long motion, it helps with their timing as well.

I will also use this with older kids when they start struggling in the cage, although I'll throw much harder. Just getting their eyes on the ball makes a huge difference, and it almost always brings them back to contact.

[Coach C]

Our 7-8 had machine pitch and yes there is a timing issue. I made sure the guy running it had a consitent tempo when feeding so the kids could get some type of timing down. Out of the 12 allstars that went from machine to kid pitch I'd say that 8 had very little problems with the transition. I can say most if not all of the 8 had concistent live pitching, either from coach or dad at home while they where hitting off a machine in games at 7-8.