Manny Ramirez wants to play for the Tribe

[Dogdaze]

Manny told a USA Today reporter he'd like to come back to Cleveland and play for the Tribe. He also talked with Jim Thome about doing the same.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090413&content_id=4247298&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[KCGHOST]

If he really wanted to go back to Cleveland all he had to do was have his agent (Darth Boras) call Shapiro and make him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Darth is an old Indian world meaning "I'm only in it for the money".

[RuthMayBond]

Manny told a USA Today reporter he'd like to come back to Cleveland and play for the Tribe. He also talked with Jim Thome about doing the same.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090413&content_id=4247298&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlbDo it before you bums are over the hill

[ACrank]

It will never happen.

And it shouldn't.

[efin98]

If he really wanted to play for the team he had every chance to try to get on with them this past winter- but he didn't.

He wants to screw with Boston, I'd put good money they he doesn't want their logo on his cap in Cooperstown. Get 39 home runs, 65 RBIs, 147 hits, 79 runs, 272 total bases more with the Indians and he might have that logo on his cap.

[RuthMayBond]

And it shouldn't.Well yeah, do we want a guy who carried the Dodgers on his back?

[Astros All Out]

I think that this whole deal is stupid. He should stay where he is before he loses all of his fans. He just sat for 4 months begging for a long-term contract and now he wants to go somewhere else with it. This Manny-wants-this thing has gotten me very, very annoyed.

[ACrank]

Well yeah, do we want a guy who carried the Dodgers on his back?

Indians can't afford him to begin with, and there is, unfortunately, the little thing about Manny dogging it in Boston.

[RuthMayBond]

there is, unfortunately, the little thing about Manny dogging it in Boston.http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2004_WS.shtml

[ACrank]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2008/07/manny_traded.html

Ramirez, the MVP of the 2004 World Series, remains one of baseball's best hitters and has enjoyed plenty of big moments in October. But his relationship with the Red Sox soured -- again -- in recent months, prompting the All-Star outfielder to agree to the deal.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/10/11/2008-10-11_mets_and_yankees_should_stay_away_from_m.html?p age=0

Let the Dodgers pay him. And have him. Then the Dodgers can wait around to find out if it will be enough that he doesn't quit on them someday, wonder if the last big score of Ramirez's career is enough to satisfy the greed that brought him to them at the trade deadline.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=manny

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3526963&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3526963%26name%3dolne y_buster

dealing with a player who was seemingly sabotaging his team, it needed to take place as the conflict occurred -- on the Friday night he sat out of the lineup against the Yankees and came back from the hospital with clean MRIs on both of his knees.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3632077

"It's extraordinary -- the dichotomy between what he was in Boston and what he is in Los Angeles," McCarver said, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer. "I mean, talk about wearing out your welcome in a town, and it was a long welcome with the Red Sox. But some of the things he did were simply despicable, despicable -- like not playing, refusing to play. Forgetting what knee to limp on. And now it's washed, it's gone."

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1052

(Now the article will back up your pov, but read some of the posts by Red Sox fans in response to it:)

Don't know about quitting or not. You are giving it a very specific meaning, where I don't know it is appropriate. Whatever Tim McCarver says, the point is Manny was making the atmosphere around the Red Sox toxic, without any rhyme or reason beyond his own immature, borderline personality disorder perogative. Or money. Whether he's a quitter or just a complete (expletive), McCarver is just giving him his due.


tballgame
(21265)

The intentional strikeout incident occurred July 6th, a day after Manny had been hit three times. In the ninth inning, with two out, Francona had Manny pinch hit against Mariano Rivera. Three pitches later, Manny was out without removing the bat from his shoulder - no check swings, no leaning toward the plate as the ball was coming in, no motion whatsoever that he was contemplating swinging at any of the pitches. Maybe he was waiting for that first splitter that dove out of the strike zone to go by before he swung.

I've been a Sox fan since before Manny donned the uniform. He rarely seemed to go all out racing for fly balls, he occasionally jogged down the line on ground balls. Otherwise, he seemed to hustle on the basepaths and give his full effort at the plate.

It was reported the team had problems with him in the bowing out of games with phantom injuries (Manny took his 3 days off between July 22-26th). It was reported the team had trouble getting him on a flight during a west coast trip that included Seattle (I think it was the July 20th flight from Anaheim/LA to Seattle). And if he is bowing out of games to encourage the team not to pick up his options in September and October, what recourse do you have?

McCarver probably doesn't make his statement if Manny hadn't hit half as well in Dodger blue as he has. All the numbers dwarf his 2008 Sox campaign. I willing to call the difference the opportunity to face weaker pitching, many pitchers seeing him for the first time, and statistical aberation, but when you develop a reputation of someone who doesn't give his team 100%, doubt seeps into other areas.

Looking at other numbers, Manny has more stolen bases for the Dodgers than he's had for the last three years with the Sox. He recorded more PO/gm for the Dodgers than he had in any season with the Sox. Not sure where to find the stat, but I suspect he has more infield singles with the Dodgers than he's had the last two years with the Sox. His OPS jumped 300 points by moving from the bandbox to the ravine. His DP% was 18.6 last year, 14.6 for the Sox this year, and 10% for the Dodgers. The baserunning stats on BP do not separate Manny's performance in each league, so I cannot use those numbers effectively.

Again, I do not know definitely that Manny has made more of an effort for the Dodgers than the Sox. I think he has. But lets not confusing McCarver being an idiot with Manny making an effort. If McCarver said Bush is a bad President because he isn't throwing enough money to Wall Street, I don't have to argue Bush is a good President to disagree with McCarver's underlying information. Similarly, I don't have to say Manny tried just as hard in Boston as in LA this season just because McCarver's evidence is deficient. And maybe Manny didn't dog it. Maybe he's tried just as hard for Boston in '08 as he did in '04 and '07, but he appears to be trying harder in LA. Manny played well for the Sox and materially better for the Dodgers. I don't know how you mathematically prove/disprove 'trying'.

Joe, you'd like to "see what trying looks like?" .398/.489/.743 (LAN) - your numeric 'projections' were pretty close. The near-Yankee sweep you mentioned included one game Manny bowed out of for soreness, the second Yankee game he bowed out of in July, leaving him with 3 hits and 5 total bases for the series. I'm not sure he put them on his back with two doubles and a single in a 7 run win. Manny made a positive contribution to the 2008 Sox, we don't need to McCarve up the facts to make that very obvious point.

Very good post. There are a lot of firsthand accounts of Ramirez being a clubhouse cancer, including the fight with Youk that everybody is forgetting about. It seems certain that when he stepped into the batter's box, Ramirez was trying, but you can't convince me he was trying when he left it. McCarver's denouncement was a little harsh and lacks support, but he is just vocalizing what a lot of people around the game feel. Every Red Sox fan I know has been saying as much since July.

(I'd do more, but somehow i feel its going to be a waste of time. Let's just say i'd really rather not see this Manny Ramirez in an indians uniform.)