Swing analysis - 14 year old

[skfboiler]

Please take a look at this 14 year old's swing. We are looking any feeedback on his swing, positive and negative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5wlSTBYaqw

[Swing Coach]

He HAS to learn how to take his hands to the ball as a first movement with his hands. Right now he drops them straight down. Have him do high tee work hitting the ball into the ground. I bet he can't do it at first. You say "go" and make sure his hands first move are forward and down. Keep doing it until he can hit the ball down off a tee. THen, you will need to move on to bigger and better things.

SC

[HYP]

Not bad but he is dropping his hands as a first move. This creates a long loopy swing.

Something I do with my son is to place the tee on the outside corner deep in the zone. I have him start his rear shoulder directly to the ball, while his hands deliver the barrel directly to the ball. He is trying to hit the inside of the ball.

The swing will not look like you see in clips of pros. But you are trying to teach him the the hands have to release to the ball and stay inside.

Good Luck

[DukeK]

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/lk2500/RKB2.gif

[wogdoggy]

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/lk2500/RKB2.gif



if we are starting with his feet I would take his back foot and turn it away from the catcher,,he also seems to be swaying his weight outside his back foot as well..turn his right toe in and keep the weight on the inside of the right foot.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Something I do with my son is to place the tee on the outside corner deep in the zone. I have him start his rear shoulder directly to the ball, while his hands deliver the barrel directly to the ball. He is trying to hit the inside of the ball.


Do you mean like this?

Rear Shoulder to the Ball. (http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/RearShoulderRotation.wmv)

[HYP]

Do you mean like this?

Rear Shoulder to the Ball. (http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/RearShoulderRotation.wmv)

Yes pretty close. I have never shot video of him doing this so I can't say for certain. But that is what we are trying to do in this drill. Down to the ball and get through in the direction of its flight.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Manny rear shoulder path:

http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/Videos/Manny26_RearShoulderPath.gif


http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/softball/JV_Game_04112009/Manny_RightShoulderPath.gif

[BoardMember]

Do you mean like this?

Rear Shoulder to the Ball. (http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/RearShoulderRotation.wmv)

But remember of course, Dave is "bypassing" his shoulders when he's hitting the ball with his back shoulder.........:crazy

He isn't really turning his back shoulder into contact to hit with his back shoulder, he just says he is..........:D

[ssarge]

Keep doing it until he can hit the ball down off a tee.

Why would anyone want to do this? Why would anyone EVER want to do ANYTHING OTHER THAN hit line drives off the tee?

I'm really asking. . . . .

[Jake Patterson]

Why would anyone want to do this? Why would anyone EVER want to do ANYTHING OTHER THAN hit line drives off the tee?
I'm really asking. . . . .
I feel this is a major problem when teaching using tees, especially Atec tees. The material used is so hard that it can damage the bats when swinging up for line drives, forcing coaches to teach "pick" the ball off the top of the tee. It's difficult to teach line drives using these style of tees and is the reason why I prefer a hitting stick over tees for many teaching applications.

[TDS]

Five,

When did Dave start teaching back shoulder to the ball?

[Swing Coach]

Sarge......you asked why anyone would want to hit a ball down off a tee. The answer is simple. It is to eliminate the serious swing flaw of dropping the hands. This boy has got to get his hands activated in a forward/downward motion. It won't happen by magic. Once he "gets" this part of the swing, then you can start teaching him how to tilt the shoulders, drop the barrel and come back level or up through the ball.
Ask the pros why they would they EVER swing down like they do on the on-deck circle. They are working on activating their hands to the ball - one part of the swing. Trust me..they won't keep that swing in the game, when they have to put it all together...but nonetheless, they practice that.


SC

[wogdoggy]

Five,

When did Dave start teaching back shoulder to the ball?



i think thats an old video..

[skfboiler]

Swing Coach

I have been watching players swing like while on deck for years and always wondered what they were doing.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Five,

When did Dave start teaching back shoulder to the ball?


I believe that was recorded back when Dave was influenced by SE.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Sarge......you asked why anyone would want to hit a ball down off a tee. The answer is simple. It is to eliminate the serious swing flaw of dropping the hands. This boy has got to get his hands activated in a forward/downward motion. It won't happen by magic. Once he "gets" this part of the swing, then you can start teaching him how to tilt the shoulders, drop the barrel and come back level or up through the ball.
Ask the pros why they would they EVER swing down like they do on the on-deck circle. They are working on activating their hands to the ball - one part of the swing. Trust me..they won't keep that swing in the game, when they have to put it all together...but nonetheless, they practice that.


SC

Interesting point. If I understand you correctly, you believe this boy's early disconnection issue is a result of not giving his hands an active role other than to "just hold on to the dam bat and turn". In a sense you are advocating giving the hands a more active function/role to help avoid premature disconnection. Almost reminds me of the "down through the nipple" cue.

Do I understand your point correctly?

[HYP]

Do you mean like this?

Rear Shoulder to the Ball. (http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/RearShoulderRotation.wmv)


FFS,

I was veiwing the video again and it is similar but with a difference. I set the tee up deep in the zone. Between the belly button and rear hip, on the outside of the plate.

I want him to hit down on the ball, inside seam. What this has helped him do is to have a down to the ball type of swing. I am trying to reenforce hands above the ball and stay inside.

The hands and rear shoulder start directly to the ball.

I have not done this drill with the ball sat as far out front as this instructor.

[Swing Coach]

5frame,

I just see too many kids of all ages who I videotape and their hands come straight down first or they have tremendous bat drag. I only know that to fix this they have to get their hands activated toward the ball first, then work on the other stuff. I just had a 10-year-old who did this and we did four lessons where all I let him do was hands down straight to the ball. ...and hands into a heavy bag. He can now take a swing without dropping his hands. We have had one lesson where I underhand toss to him and with my constant cues, can now take his hands forward and down instead of straight down. It is my belief that it will take many many swings like this before I start teaching the rotation first, dropping the barrel etc. From my experience, it is necessary to cure the hands thing first, then it is easier to teach the proper swing plane and hip rotation etc. (On the other hand, many older kids (college, hs....are just the opposite (lead with the hands at the expense of rotation) and I need to teach them to rotate, swing plane get in the correct position first etc.) There is no one universal lesson when you are attempting to fix swing flaws. SOmetimes you have to break it down into pieces and build it back up.

SC

[FiveFrameSwing]

SC,

I hear you. I come across players that initiate their swing by first dropping their hands.

I've had reasonable success by improving the loading of the rear shoulder and rear humerus as the hitter launches their swing (i.e., as the hitter brings their hands back ... creating rear-hip to rear-elbow separation ... or as BM says, leading back with the rear elbow ... or using the Yeager cue of "taking the ball out of the glove with the rear humerus".). A lack of a load here can, IMO, lead to early disconnection.

I do like the concept of giving the hands an active role in terms of going down to the ball. This, IMO, is what Yeager means when he uses the cue "down through the nipple".

-FFS

[Drill]

Sarge......you asked why anyone would want to hit a ball down off a tee. The answer is simple. It is to eliminate the serious swing flaw of dropping the hands. This boy has got to get his hands activated in a forward/downward motion. It won't happen by magic. Once he "gets" this part of the swing, then you can start teaching him how to tilt the shoulders, drop the barrel and come back level or up through the ball.
Ask the pros why they would they EVER swing down like they do on the on-deck circle. They are working on activating their hands to the ball - one part of the swing. Trust me..they won't keep that swing in the game, when they have to put it all together...but nonetheless, they practice that.


SC


Why not break it down a little more and do some one hand drills, the person will feel his hands drop than. He will have to use his lower body to get one hand through the drill properly. Than he can practice butt of the bat to the inside of the ball, along with barrel of the bat to the ball. This drill will help with proper weight shift along with timing of the hands through the ball.

It will also show importance of proper hand position to optimize bat speed.

When you change one thing in a swing remember to go to timing drills after. I think one hand drill's should be in any practice/warm up program.

If you do decide to include this drill, find a tee-ball bat. Or just tell him to choke way up on there own bats. But I have seen the tee-ball bats work better.

Usually I have seen it taught weight shift in one lesson and than hand position second lesson. But the young man seems that he is shifting his weight to his front leg fairly well. I would suggest hands and weight shift in one lesson. If you want to know a proper weight shift drill PM me.


IMHO,

drill

[Swing Coach]

Drill,

Great post. I have found one-hand (mostly top hand) drills essential for kids who drop their hands or suffer from bat drag.Many times they are not even using their top hand in their regular swing. For the first time, many of these kids feel the necessary hand torque for the first time.

SC

[Ursa Major]

Five, When did Dave start teaching back shoulder to the ball?
That video was recorded by a parent many years ago when David gave a lecture/demonstration there to a group of young kids (say, seven and eight year olds). (And FiveFrame knows that it was not intended for further public consumption :silent: ) It is not fair to hold that up as a measure either of what he believes now or what he believed then was appropriate for older hitters. There are lots of cues that we give to little kids that we reject when they get older.

[FiveFrameSwing]

That video was recorded by a parent many years ago when David gave a lecture/demonstration there to a group of young kids (say, seven and eight year olds). (And FiveFrame knows that it was not intended for further public consumption :silent: ) It is not fair to hold that up as a measure either of what he believes now or what he believed then was appropriate for older hitters. There are lots of cues that we give to little kids that we reject when they get older.

UM is correct. The information in that video is old and may not be what Dave currently believes or supports.

I made the post to facilitate discussion on the concept of taking the rear shoulder to the ball.

The material is relatively old ... and I have no idea if this is what Dave currently believes or supports.

IMO David gives a great example of this concept.

That said ... I errored in uploading that clip and should not have done so.

[Mark H]

Sarge......you asked why anyone would want to hit a ball down off a tee. The answer is simple. It is to eliminate the serious swing flaw of dropping the hands. This boy has got to get his hands activated in a forward/downward motion. It won't happen by magic. Once he "gets" this part of the swing, then you can start teaching him how to tilt the shoulders, drop the barrel and come back level or up through the ball.
Ask the pros why they would they EVER swing down like they do on the on-deck circle. They are working on activating their hands to the ball - one part of the swing. Trust me..they won't keep that swing in the game, when they have to put it all together...but nonetheless, they practice that.


SC

I have had kids hit the ball on a line off a tee with the ball set arm pit high to solve this kind of disconnection and posture problem. Pretty amusing if dad practices it before junior gets there so he can do it and junior can't. Gets their attention. Slowly lower the tee teaching your young hitter how to tilt to line up the swing plane always being ready to go back up when he regresses. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis;jsessionid=eokxsr2ft3.tiger_s

Shouldn't have to do this very long to get the light to come on. Breaks the rule of an athletic loaded position but it's useful briefly.