demarini cf4 or new easton stealth?

[Hartattack52]

Im looking to get a new -3 for tournament baseball this spring. I am currently using last years yellow and black exo. Iv done a lot of research on the cf4 and new stealth. Whats the difference between the two? Is one better than the other?

Thanks

[skipper5]

The Stealth IMX and Dem. CF4 are high-end BESR adult bats. The BESR regulation doesn't allow one high-end bat to have better performance than another high-end bat, when they are tested in the lab.

Both are composite bats. As compared to the Exo, which is a metal high-end bat, the high-end composite bats can be expected to have a larger sweet spot and to get somewhat hotter after break-in-- their field performance may somewhat exceed the their tested performance.

You're asking for anecdotal comparisons of these two bats. Until they've been in use for a while, someone's impressions after limited use of a brand-new bat might be of limited value.

Both appear to have nice paint jobs.

[hitnpeas]

The Stealth IMX and Dem. CF4 are high-end BESR adult bats. The BESR regulation doesn't allow one high-end bat to have better performance than another high-end bat, when they are tested in the lab.
Both are composite bats. As compared to the Exo, which is a metal high-end bat, the high-end composite bats can be expected to have a larger sweet spot and to get somewhat hotter after break-in-- their field performance may somewhat exceed the their tested performance.

You're asking for anecdotal comparisons of these two bats. Until they've been in use for a while, someone's impressions after limited use of a brand-new bat might be of limited value.

Both appear to have nice paint jobs.


This is absolutely not true....

BESR is the LIMIT not the standard! Many, many bats test well below the LIMIT, in fact, most bats test well below it because the last thing a bat company wants to happen, is to have a bat fail certification. I know that some companies are willing to push the limit closer than others, and when they do, there is a sizeable difference in the performance. The stealth composite will test significantly higher during certification than say a demarini nitro. Both are BESR certified, but one was closer to the pass/fail threshold.

[hitnpeas]

Im looking to get a new -3 for tournament baseball this spring. I am currently using last years yellow and black exo. Iv done a lot of research on the cf4 and new stealth. Whats the difference between the two? Is one better than the other?

Thanks

Which Stealth are you looking to purchase since there are several and they are NOT all created equal? My nephew just made the switch from the EXO to the CNT Stealth IMX , and is enjoying the composite as much if not more than his EXO.

[skipper5]

Hit'n'peas
Your points are well taken, but you didn't read my post carefully enough, or I didn't define my terms.

My definition of high-end bat is a top-of-the-line bat.

You stated,
"The stealth composite will test significantly higher during certification than say a demarini nitro"

And that is true: a $389 high-end Stealth is not in the same performance category as a $99 Nitro.

Within the high-end category, and within the composite sub-category of high-end bats, the BESR limit drastically curtails differences in performance between one bat and another.

Though I agree with much of your premise, I'm curious how you know for a fact that "most bats test well below" the BESR limit? The results have NEVER been released--the lab won't release the results because they don't want bat companies to be using them in their marketing and ads.

[hitnpeas]

Hit'n'peas
Your points are well taken, but you didn't read my post carefully enough, or I didn't define my terms.

My definition of high-end bat is a top-of-the-line bat.

You stated,
"The stealth composite will test significantly higher during certification than say a demarini nitro"

And that is true: a $389 high-end Stealth is not in the same performance category as a $99 Nitro.

Within the high-end category, and within the composite sub-category of high-end bats, the BESR limit drastically curtails differences in performance between one bat and another.

Though I agree with much of your premise, I'm curious how you know for a fact that "most bats test well below" the BESR limit? The results have NEVER been released--the lab won't release the results because they don't want bat companies to be using them in their marketing and ads.


Lets just say I've spoken with some people on the "inside".... ;)

btw, categorizing high end or top of the line bats by price is one way, but a fairly ineffective way, of breaking down the best bats. Ive hit many mid-priced bats that out hit the really expensive ones, and also seen many instances where paying a little extra, is money well spent. It is all about finding/testing/comparing what is actually the best bang for the buck. Not all 300.00 dollar composite or non-composite bats are created equally. That said, most 50.00-100.00 (-3) bats are under performers when compared to a TRUE high end composite. There is sooooo much more to the equation than just price or a pretty paint job. Good luck with your bat choices....

Peace!!

[skipper5]

"btw, categorizing high end or top of the line bats by price is one way, but a fairly ineffective way, of breaking down the best bats..... It is all about finding/testing/comparing what is actually the best bang for the buck."

Fact: the $389 Stealth IMX is a high-end composite bat, by any definition.
Fact: the $99 Nitro is a lower-end aluminum alloy bat, by any definition.

It's not realistic that many individual consumers can find/test/compare a range of bats during a large sample of live swings against a moving ball. For that matter, in the absence of a controlled setting with radar values for exit velocity, an individual testing a wide range of bats would be relying on perception of performance, or feel.

The reasonable and realistic alternative for outsiders is to group bats in general performance ranges. For BESR adult bats, this means low-priced alloy at the bottom, then mid-priced alloy, then high-priced alloy/composites. Or, something similar, you get the gist.

It is fair to assume that both mid-priced and high-priced composites will perform better than their tested values after they're broken-in. (but can only be proven by EV tests, not by swings at a batting cage.).

Re BESR: Hitnpeas, based on inside info, you state:

"most bats test well below it because the last thing a bat company wants to happen, is to have a bat fail certification."

That makes no sense. All batmakers have in-house testing so that they can bring every model they produce as close to the limits as the materials and construction allow. That's what competitive bat-building is all about. It's not a crap-shoot when they send the bat to the Lowell, Ma., testing facility. They already know how it's going to test.

Do you really think a mid-level alloy bat would hit better if the batmakers weren't afraid of approaching/exceeding the limit? Why would they leave some performance on the table? My guess, however, is that they have some anxious moments when the high-performing/near-the-limit bats are officially tested.

[skipper5]

Hartattack,
You asked a simple question. Here's a simple answer. Buy the blue Stealth IMX, because Fresno State won the CWS with Easton bats. That's my best answer. Sorry.

[benz99]

Re BESR: Hitnpeas, based on inside info, you state:

"most bats test well below it because the last thing a bat company wants to happen, is to have a bat fail certification."

That makes no sense. All batmakers have in-house testing so that they can bring every model they produce as close to the limits as the materials and construction allow. That's what competitive bat-building is all about. It's not a crap-shoot when they send the bat to the Lowell, Ma., testing facility. They already know how it's going to test.

Do you really think a mid-level alloy bat would hit better if the batmakers weren't afraid of approaching/exceeding the limit? Why would they leave some performance on the table? My guess, however, is that they have some anxious moments when the high-performing/near-the-limit bats are officially tested.
Wouldn't that make all the bats the same if that were true???

[hitnpeas]

"btw, categorizing high end or top of the line bats by price is one way, but a fairly ineffective way, of breaking down the best bats..... It is all about finding/testing/comparing what is actually the best bang for the buck."

Fact: the $389 Stealth IMX is a high-end composite bat, by any definition.
Fact: the $99 Nitro is a lower-end aluminum alloy bat, by any definition.

It's not realistic that many individual consumers can find/test/compare a range of bats during a large sample of live swings against a moving ball. For that matter, in the absence of a controlled setting with radar values for exit velocity, an individual testing a wide range of bats would be relying on perception of performance, or feel.

The reasonable and realistic alternative for outsiders is to group bats in general performance ranges. For BESR adult bats, this means low-priced alloy at the bottom, then mid-priced alloy, then high-priced alloy/composites. Or, something similar, you get the gist.

It is fair to assume that both mid-priced and high-priced composites will perform better than their tested values after they're broken-in. (but can only be proven by EV tests, not by swings at a batting cage.).

Re BESR: Hitnpeas, based on inside info, you state:

"most bats test well below it because the last thing a bat company wants to happen, is to have a bat fail certification."

That makes no sense. All batmakers have in-house testing so that they can bring every model they produce as close to the limits as the materials and construction allow. That's what competitive bat-building is all about. It's not a crap-shoot when they send the bat to the Lowell, Ma., testing facility. They already know how it's going to test.

Do you really think a mid-level alloy bat would hit better if the batmakers weren't afraid of approaching/exceeding the limit? Why would they leave some performance on the table? My guess, however, is that they have some anxious moments when the high-performing/near-the-limit bats are officially tested.

You seem to know it all, so I won't bore you with the facts any longer.... :crazy


Wouldn't that make all the bats the same if that were true???

ONE of the questions that came to mind after I read his response.... :laugh

[benz99]

You seem to know it all, so I won't bore you with the facts any longer.... :crazy




ONE of the questions that came to mind after I read his response.... :laugh

ME too & I wasted all that money on my pretty B2 & I coulda bought the SAME Nitro

[bob_r]

Im looking to get a new -3 for tournament baseball this spring. I am currently using last years yellow and black exo. Iv done a lot of research on the cf4 and new stealth. Whats the difference between the two? Is one better than the other?

Thanks
How did you like the EXO?

[skipper5]

Hitnpeas,

You are fortunate to have friends on the inside of the industry and the opportunity to hit a wide range of bats.

The typical consumer doesn't, and has to judge bats according to technology-group and price.

[Mikjary]

How did you like the EXO?

My son has hit with 33/30 EXO's for a few years. They have good pop and you can pick one up pretty cheap since they just change paint colors every year. Same bat, same results.
We want to find a -3 composite and compare the two. The blue IMX looks pretty good. The CF4 seems to have a little different swing feel than the EXO. We've swung with stealths before, but not the IMX. How does it feel compared to the EXO?

[korp]

I love the blue Stealth IMX ... feels great. -- not a huge Demarini fan though.

[hitnpeas]

Hitnpeas,

You are fortunate to have friends on the inside of the industry and the opportunity to hit a wide range of bats.

The typical consumer doesn't, and has to judge bats according to technology-group and price.

Or they could listen to someone who has some background in this area, and understand that NOT ALL expensive bats, or bats with the same name, are created equally. Which of these Synergy Extendeds is a better bat?? One is a 2004 model and the other is a 2008 model. Both listed by Easton Sports as Synergy Extended's but I will tell you right now, one is the real deal and the other one is one of the biggest turds on the market. They both originally listed for 199.99 so if you go by price to pick the value of the bat, you are going to be disappointed. I understand what you are saying and PRICE is a good way to get in the ball park on what bat is going to perform well, but it isn't the ONLY way I would recommend making the choice for your next purchase. Good luck in the future.... Peace!!

2004:

http://tsa.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p1867113dt.jpg


2008:

http://www.jksports.com/jksports/Images/products/main/SCX14-2.jpg

[bob_r]

Couple of things: 1) All bats are tested at Umass-Lowell for certification. It's an awesome tour to take. They won't budge on what the best bat is. 2) I think the feel and performance of a bat can be very subjective. Through the years on my softball and baseball teams everybody tries each others bats some are favored but it's never unanimous.

I wish there was an organization that would test bats similar to the machines that test golf clubs. Maybe test bats at 3 bat speeds (slow, medium and fast). Hit the ball on the sweet spot and measure the distance.

[skipper5]

Hitnpeas,
Since you've got insider sources of information not available to the general public, could you be somewhat more explicit about those sources. I'm not challenging your information; but, anybody can write anything on the internet.

Also, if you re-read my post, I suggested that technology group and price were general guides for consumers who aren't privy to insider information.

Examples of technology groups are, from bottom to top: 7046 alum. alloy; 7050 alum. alloy; scandium alloys; composites.

Those Synergy Extendeds look like softball bats. Are they youth baseball bats?
Can you give us examples of current baseball bats that are over-rated, and why--that would be very useful.

[hitnpeas]

Hitnpeas,
Since you've got insider sources of information not available to the general public, could you be somewhat more explicit about those sources. I'm not challenging your information; but, anybody can write anything on the internet.

Also, if you re-read my post, I suggested that technology group and price were general guides for consumers who aren't privy to insider information.

Examples of technology groups are, from bottom to top: 7046 alum. alloy; 7050 alum. alloy; scandium alloys; composites.

Those Synergy Extendeds look like softball bats. Are they youth baseball bats?
Can you give us examples of current baseball bats that are over-rated, and why--that would be very useful.

They are softball bats but two bats I just decided to use as an example. I hear all the time how bats are the same bat with a new paint job. In some cases this is correct. But not in all cases such as the comparison with the two Extended's.

Look, you don't have to believe anything I say, because it is the internet, but my experiences with softball/baseball bats and conversation I've had with people in the know, allow me to give you the advice I have posted. Take it fwiw.

[hitnpeas]

Couple of things: 1) All bats are tested at Umass-Lowell for certification. It's an awesome tour to take. They won't budge on what the best bat is. 2) I think the feel and performance of a bat can be very subjective. Through the years on my softball and baseball teams everybody tries each others bats some are favored but it's never unanimous.

I wish there was an organization that would test bats similar to the machines that test golf clubs. Maybe test bats at 3 bat speeds (slow, medium and fast). Hit the ball on the sweet spot and measure the distance.

The best bat is subjective because there are many, many pieces to the puzzle. Sweet spot, durability, pop/distance are all factors. Some kids are able to hit a bat with a very small sweet spot and I would recommend a certain bat for them. Other kids need a longer barrel with a bigger sweet spot, but that bat might not be as durable. Some kids are stronger and can get the walls to flex, where as others can not. It isn't an exact science, but based on the hitter, and the level of play, it is possible to give them a better chance of success at the plate by giving them good equipment to compliment their swing.

[dball]

hitnpeas I am only a consumer and just would like to purchase a bat for my son to use during babe ruth. Can you tell me in your opinion the top 5 bats to choose from.

[old perfessor]

I'm in the market for a bat for my 14 year-old son. Last year I got by without shelling out $200+ on a bat for him as he swung a 32" SAM PS2 (P72) and SAM MMO (M110) in Babe Ruth and Travel ball. His 7th grade school team had some metal bats that he used in school games.

But this year he'll be playing Jr Legion and the Jr Legion coach has already told him at tryouts he wants him to use something other than wood. The Jr Legion team doesn't have any team bats and I can't see shelling out $350+ for the superhyped -3 Eastons or TPXs of the world. I have been looking at the Akadema Xtension which appears to be a quality bat at a reasonable price. Does anyone here have any experience swinging this bat? And if so, does the 2 ounces of counterweight in the knob allow you to use a slightly heavier/longer bat then you otherwise would use? I appreciate any feedback.