Iron Triangle/Willets Point Demolition/Redevelopment

[BiggieSmalls]

The Mets want them out to make money PERIOD and they are the least honest business of all because many those people were there before baseball.

NYC neglected that neighborhood intentionally forever so people can write just what you just did.

I suspect the VAST MAJORITY of Mets fans dont spend time counting the Wilpons money like you and Mongoose. Who cares if and why teh Mets want the IT cleaned up.

The fact is it NEEDS to BE Cleaned up and redeveloped. It is a Hot Mess. Just because some of the businesses pre date the construction of Shea doesnt mean they can continue to conduct their business like it is the Wild West and have no regard for environmental and building standards established decades ago and followed by the rest of the State.

The question of "Intentional Neglect" has not been proven by anyone. The history of the area tells why sewers were never built in the area. The people who have been operating there have created most of the toxic sludge puddle and unsafe building conditions.

[IPO]

I clearly said a BID would have been something the Mets would have probably been interested in supporting FIVE YEARS AGO.

Spare us, this criminal was trying to get those businesses out from day one only Doubleday stood in his way and he wanted Shea renovated.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/04/21/nyregion/mets-quietly-entering-the-on-deck-circle-for-new-stadium.html

Mets Quietly Entering the On-Deck Circle for New Stadium
By NORIMITSU ONISHI
Published: Sunday, April 21, 1996

Mr. Wilpon last year abandoned his original idea of building a futuristic entertainment complex next to a new stadium, Mr. Howard said, partly because the project drew the opposition of local businesses that would have been forced to move out of the Willets Point Industrial Park.



Further, MANY Business Improvement Districts employ private security guards to patrol and deter illegal dumping. In fact, I have heard that the WP businesses are now employing such patrols through their WP United Group.
Unfortunately Too little too late .

So if this so-called commercial community is required to clean up it's own garbage why was the department of Sanitation out there a few weeks ago?

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/03/city-sends-sanitation-army-to-willets.html

It's interesting that since word got out that we were planning a cleanup this Friday, the Department of Sanitation all of a sudden showed up with their garbage trucks and sweepers and have been in a cleaning frenzy. It's a shame that the only way to get services is to embarrass the City. We're still having our cleanup as scheduled on Friday, however, because there's a lot they missed.



I refer largely tot he CONDITION OF THE STRUCTURES in the IRon Triangle. Something tells me that the generally run down condition of the structures contributes to any illegal dumping that may occur. Illegal dumping is a problem CITY WIDE and is not specific to the Iron Triangle..

And you are throwing out claims without any proof beyond Fredo's politicians in his back pocket.



Lastly, Your reading comprehension is sorely deficient.

The article you quote (dated 2007) and take the time to highlight says the Mets were amicable to the Iron triangle Businesses "UNTIL ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO". Which is in line with MY Statments and not your quoted statment above that the Mets "stopped being a good neighbor in 1994"

Which is why I posted another article proving as early as 1995 Fredo's grand plan was to get those people out.

[IPO]

I suspect the VAST MAJORITY of Mets fans dont spend time counting the Wilpons money like you and Mongoose. Who cares if and why teh Mets want the IT cleaned up.

Because we had to pay billions for Fredo's Brooklyn field of schemes because he did not have the money to pay for it himself and now he wants even more of our money spent because he wants his Brooklyn neighborhood while NYC goes bankrupt.



The fact is it NEEDS to BE Cleaned up and redeveloped. It is a Hot Mess. Just because some of the businesses pre date the construction of Shea doesnt mean they can continue to conduct their business like it is the Wild West and have no regard for environmental and building standards established decades ago and followed by the rest of the State..

The fact is New York City can clean it up any time they wanted to pre-dating Shea's construction and still can right now and leave those people alone. The fact those are established businesses and have to be bought out on our dime for Fredo proves they are legit and your claims of building standards and Wild West conduct only applies to how the Mets conduct themselves with regard to their neighbors.



The question of "Intentional Neglect" has not been proven by anyone. The history of the area tells why sewers were never built in the area. The people who have been operating there have created most of the toxic sludge puddle and unsafe building conditions.

With one sentence you claim nothing has been proven but on the other you act is if something has been proven against those people.

A lot of spin on your part. That green plastic seat for three hours must mean a great deal to you.

Those people who work there year-round and make NYC money for generations means more to me.

[BiggieSmalls]

All that Times article says is the Mets ABANDONED a plan after opposition for the WP Businesses.

Whether or not the Mets support the development is not important.

The fact REMAINS that the area Needs to be CLEANED up and is a HOT MESS prime for redevelopment.

The majority of the businesses will be relocated and others will receive fair compensation for their property.

This is a win win situation for all involved.

[BiggieSmalls]

Teh question of intentional neglect BY THE CITY has not been proven. And is a long shot in a court of law.

There is no question that the businesses that have occupied the land for 70 odd years have contributed mightily to the hot mess that is the iron triangle today.

What information do you have that the area can be cleaned up while the existing businesses remain? Most of the problem IS the existing businesses. With their polluted land and sorely deficient construction.

[IPO]

All that Times article says is the Mets ABANDONED a plan after opposition for the WP Businesses.

And what a surprise he went right back to it.



Whether or not the Mets support the development is not important.
They not only support the development, Fredo told people there before him they had to go.



The fact REMAINS that the area Needs to be CLEANED up and is a HOT MESS prime for redevelopment..

The fact remains not a damn thing has to happen and it's prime for nothing but to continue to let hard-working people for generations making a living, you want them kicked out because you and Fredo don't like the view.

Too bad, the Mets should relocate if they don't like it but you want even more of our tax dollars spent to buy them out?



Teh question of intentional neglect BY THE CITY has not been proven. And is a long shot in a court of law.

There is no question that the businesses that have occupied the land for 70 odd years have contributed mightily to the hot mess that is the iron triangle today.

The only thing not in question is NYC neglected the area, the fact they sent department of Sanitation trucks into the area means they are responsible for the cleanup. The lack of a septic/sewer system proves NYC neglect every time it rains and if the Mets got one Willets Point should have had one before any ballpark was constructed.



What information do you have that the area can be cleaned up while the existing businesses remain? Most of the problem IS the existing businesses. With their polluted land and sorely deficient construction.

For the same reason Fredo can have his ballpark open while the area is cleaned up, it's all Willets Point. The only problem with the existing businesses is you don't like what they look like. PERIOD.

No one forced Fredo to move there.

[Mongoose]

What is your Point mongoose? Ive said that I have been interested in the topic for some time

A search of your name pulls up hundreds of posts slamming the Wilpons and not much specifically about "baseball"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22mongoose%22+wilpons&btnG=Search

You and "IPO" are two peas in a pod. If you want to discuss the topic Im happy to do that but I will not engage you further in your conspiracy theories and name calling.

Of course, you're a liar. Anyone who wants to bother can look at that google search and see there's nothing outside of Baseball Fever that has anything to do with me. The bulk of my posts on Baseball Fever are about baseball and non-Wilpon related.

You, on the other hand, are all over the internet on this subject and this subject alone, as one might expect of a paid shill. Here's an incomplete sample of different internet sites you've been shilling about this project on:

http://irontriangletracker.com/2009/01/19/willets-point-redevelopment-4-to-8-years-away-ferreras/

http://developwilletspoint.com/2008/08/13/news-wild-press-conferences-at-washington-sq-park-today/

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/03/taxpayers-remove-17-tons-of-crap-from.html

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/dover-plains-ny/TJ0USSU2EORH5MSGK

https://www.nydailynews.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=41390&tstart=760

In addition, you are on many dozens of threads on these sites. And might I add, you are not talking about baseball or the New York Mets. You keep shilling about this development plan.

My favorite quote about you comes from the queenscrap blog:

"back in black said...

biggie is a city hack loser who also blogs under raffie & anonymous who tries to say everything at willets point is the owners fault and not the city's he also gets off on people losing their businesses and property. he calls everyone illegal and polluters,only the ones who sold are good. he is someone who needs attention he carries out coversations with himself using both of his alias's haha what a loser lmfao"

There are two basic choices: You either shill on this subject 24/7 and attend every public meeting in every borough instead of work... Or you do it for work.

People on the other sites figure you work for the City... My guess is you work for Sterling Enterprises or the Mets.

Please clear up this mystery for us.

Who are you working for?

[Paul W]

again...why is this so important to you???

[mandrake]

Of course, you're a liar. Anyone who wants to bother can look at that google search and see there's nothing outside of Baseball Fever that has anything to do with me. The bulk of my posts on Baseball Fever are about baseball and non-Wilpon related.

You, on the other hand, are all over the internet on this subject and this subject alone, as one might expect of a paid shill. Here's an incomplete sample of different internet sites you've been shilling about this project on:

http://irontriangletracker.com/2009/01/19/willets-point-redevelopment-4-to-8-years-away-ferreras/

http://developwilletspoint.com/2008/08/13/news-wild-press-conferences-at-washington-sq-park-today/

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/03/taxpayers-remove-17-tons-of-crap-from.html

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/dover-plains-ny/TJ0USSU2EORH5MSGK

https://www.nydailynews.com/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=41390&tstart=760

In addition, you are on many dozens of threads on these sites. And might I add, you are not talking about baseball or the New York Mets. You keep shilling about this development plan.

My favorite quote about you comes from the queenscrap blog:

"back in black said...

biggie is a city hack loser who also blogs under raffie & anonymous who tries to say everything at willets point is the owners fault and not the city's he also gets off on people losing their businesses and property. he calls everyone illegal and polluters,only the ones who sold are good. he is someone who needs attention he carries out coversations with himself using both of his alias's haha what a loser lmfao"

There are two basic choices: You either shill on this subject 24/7 and attend every public meeting in every borough instead of work... Or you do it for work.

People on the other sites figure you work for the City... My guess is you work for Sterling Enterprises or the Mets.

Please clear up this mystery for us.

Who are you working for?

No matter what side you are on in this debate, and personally I am in the 'middle' since I want these toxic waste dumps cleaned up by the EPA, but I don't want any development until it is proven 100% safe, well...there is a clear winner in the DEBATE.

If this was a high school or college debate, it clearly is Mongoose by a KO.
BiggieSmalls,(raffie, anonymous) can't answer (or won't answer) who he works for, and now.....why he is posting the same stuff on multiple sites?
Not exactly a concerned Mets fan there.....sounds like he has been given an agenda with multiple forums.

I am not saying I am taking the Mongoose/IPO side but I am saying they are winning the DEBATE vs biggiesmalls in a landslide. I would not want him as my lawyer presenting my case.

I began to question his motives with those "call 311" messages, and some absurd and unverified claims that workers were harrassing him.....nobody bothered me Friday nite when I purposely walked around those junk shops.

[BiggieSmalls]

All I hear from Mongoose is personal attacks and allegations of conspiracy theories.

No points brought up were argued. Who do I work for? Myself. Ive said repeatedly that I've no skin in this game.

Why is my personal information germane to the debate? All you prove is that I've been activ in the debate for at least a year.

Who do YOU work for Mongoose/IPO? you seem to have a constant anti Wilpon bias.

Now Im not the biggest Wilpon fan. He is not the ideal owner. But this thread is aout WIllets Point. NOT THE WILPONS.

If you want to rail on the Wilpons open a new thread. If youwant to talk The Developement of Willets Point Im happy to do so.

[mandrake]

Sorry, biggiesmalls, but if you are posting the same stuff on at least SIX different sites, than you are not a 'casual' concerned citizen. If it was just baseball fever, then maybe you are just carrying the flag for a cause, just like I was banging the drum for a new name for the Mets ballpark.

Six different sites for the same topic ? I have not seen such a landslide since Perry Mason used to outsmart Hamilton Burger every week.

Now if you can show us that Mongoose and/or IPO is posting the same stuff on at least six different sites, we can call it a draw. :D

[BiggieSmalls]

Six different sites for the same topic ? I have not seen such a landslide since Perry Mason used to outsmart Hamilton Burger every week.


There are really only a few sites devoted to this topic. Not SIX.

That Mongoose and IPO only post on one site means what? Of course it says nothing about the possibility of me using different user names for different topics.

I do read a number of sources on the topic. That is why I am so much more educated on this topic that the "casual concerned citizen".

But my interests are wider than just developing Willets Point. If you widened the search you'd know that I post on other sites about other topics. Bet you didnt know that I am an authority on all things related to the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement.

A search of "BiggieSmalls" and "Willets Point" would not reveal that.

This is all terribly off topic and has done nothing to further the debate but fuel your conspiracy theories.

If you think Mongoose/IPO has "won" because he constantly questions my motivations then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
But I dont see it that way as most of this "questioning of motives" is because I admittedly know so much more about the topic than the accusers.

[NYMets523]

Sorry, biggiesmalls, but if you are posting the same stuff on at least SIX different sites, than you are not a 'casual' concerned citizen. If it was just baseball fever, then maybe you are just carrying the flag for a cause, just like I was banging the drum for a new name for the Mets ballpark.

Six different sites for the same topic ? I have not seen such a landslide since Perry Mason used to outsmart Hamilton Burger every week.

Now if you can show us that Mongoose and/or IPO is posting the same stuff on at least six different sites, we can call it a draw. :D

Why does it matter if he's posting on multiple sites? It doesn't make his valid points invalid.

[SteveJRogers]

Sorry, biggiesmalls, but if you are posting the same stuff on at least SIX different sites, than you are not a 'casual' concerned citizen. If it was just baseball fever, then maybe you are just carrying the flag for a cause, just like I was banging the drum for a new name for the Mets ballpark.

Six different sites for the same topic ? I have not seen such a landslide since Perry Mason used to outsmart Hamilton Burger every week.

Now if you can show us that Mongoose and/or IPO is posting the same stuff on at least six different sites, we can call it a draw. :D

Just as a point of reference though, what biggie is doing is EXACTLY what I suggested IPO do back when he started the "demolish both stadiums and refurbish the old ones" posts back in August/September. Taking his agenda to multiple sites if he felt that passionate about it and wanted to see action done.

How is this a bad thing and not carrying the flag for a cause?

If it is/was just baseball-fever I'd actually agree with you, well I do agree that the "I'm just a casual fan" act has to go, but if you feel strongly about an issue, why keep it on one isolated forum?

There is a segment of a Met forum that I belong to that is very right-wing and are concerned about the decline of American society and culture since the election of Barack Obama. Rather than flood the General Discussion folder of the board, they've created a blog where they put up reaction columns, videos and other things as a way to voice their opinions about what is going on with this country, called WAFUSA.blogspot.com

So, why is what biggiesmalls is doing any different than that? Oh sure he should be upfront that he is on a mission and is spreading his word, but really, is there a real problem here?

[BiggieSmalls]

So, why is what biggiesmalls is doing any different than that? Oh sure he should be upfront that he is on a mission and is spreading his word, but really, is there a real problem here?


The only thing IPO is trying to do is make this (and every other thread IPO has been involved with) a Wilpon debate. Which is it not.

Mongoose is just resorting to personal attacks because he has no reasonable reply to the points brought up and wants to change the subject to make this about me rather than developing Willets Point.

That people think that someone more passionate and informed about an issue is an "insider" with a "hidden agenda" is very simple minded and defensive.

I only questioned their constant Wilpon bashing in response to their accusations about my motives.

Lastly, I never said i was a "casual fan" with respect to this issue. I am a Mets fan of course, something we truly dont know about "IPO" or "Mongoose". All we know is they are anti-Wilpon. Which is not the topic of this thread.

Ive stated my motivations and allegiances in this debate more than a few times and dont feel I have to repeat them in every post. I have been passionate about learning about a better solution for Willets Point since I went to my first ball game -- probably before most readers were born.

I go to at least 25 ball games a year for over a quarter century. Most people who have seen pictures or experienced the hot mess that is Willets Point want the same thing. They just havent spent the time to research and learn about the issue to the extent that I have. Nothing wrong with that. Just like ther is nothing wrong with someone learning as much as they can about an issue in order to discuss it intelligently.

I appreciate the support from like minded Mets fans. I continue to speak out for this development and address any issues that come up, should they be questions or new developments in the topic

[Mongoose]

Just as a point of reference though, what biggie is doing is EXACTLY what I suggested IPO do back when he started the "demolish both stadiums and refurbish the old ones" posts back in August/September. Taking his agenda to multiple sites if he felt that passionate about it and wanted to see action done.

How is this a bad thing and not carrying the flag for a cause?

If it is/was just baseball-fever I'd actually agree with you, well I do agree that the "I'm just a casual fan" act has to go, but if you feel strongly about an issue, why keep it on one isolated forum?

There is a segment of a Met forum that I belong to that is very right-wing and are concerned about the decline of American society and culture since the election of Barack Obama. Rather than flood the General Discussion folder of the board, they've created a blog where they put up reaction columns, videos and other things as a way to voice their opinions about what is going on with this country, called WAFUSA.blogspot.com

So, why is what biggiesmalls is doing any different than that? Oh sure he should be upfront that he is on a mission and is spreading his word, but really, is there a real problem here?

The problem with that is Biggie himself keeps referring to himself as just a regular Joe; just your average Mets fan:


I just want a nice place to see the game and will count wins on the field.

Hmmm...

If he's posting on every internet forum possible on this one subject, which really has nothing to do with baseball, let alone Mets baseball, he's obviously misrepresenting himself.

As for the comparison of biggiesmalls with IPO, the differences are pretty significant:

* IPO disappears for stretches at a time. He's hardly a constant presence on this board, much less all over the internet. I would assume IPO has a job, which would make it impossible for him to post 24/7.

Perhaps Biggie is independently wealthy and instead of pursuing the life of a playboy and enjoying his wealth, he chooses to sit around and post on this one topic all day every day in every internet forum possible.

Perhaps he feels the need to crusade for the big guy over the little guy, and this is the mission to which he has devoted his life.

But it's far more likely he's simply on the job.

* IPO has not mentioned attending all the public meetings in every borough during work hours on this matter. Nobody with a regular job would be able to do that - unless, that is, their regular job is related to this project.

Biggie, of course, has attended most every meeting everywhere.

* IPO does not have any special information that the general public should not have. Biggie admits he does. I will repost a post of mine regarding this which I addressed to him earlier:

1) You yourself claimed to have special sources on this story.

2) You yourself then gave us information on the project which had not been made public yet and was not known by the general public:


126th Street is generally well maintained. Swept regularly, plowed and paved. Yet tin shacks still exist on the eastern edges. This should not happen.

I hear through the grape vine that phase one of the Willets Point rebuild will focus on this area. A very very good thing. Cant happen soon enough

And lo and behold, you were right: you knew about this before it had even been reported in the media! In fact you repeatedly mentioned the destruction of the tin shacks even though it wasn't even in the Observer article you linked to!



The "shop owner" you refer to is Jake Bono. His shop is in an area of the Iron Triangle that is not part of the phase one development.

He may be there a while but --according tot he article -- the tin shacks along 126th street will not. And that is MAJOR MAJOR news for anyone who has been following this story since it developed

How do you even know who Jake Bono is or where his shop is??? It wasn't in the article!!!

How do you know the smallest details of Phase 1 of the project, right down to what's going to happen to the tin shacks on the eastern edges of the targeted area???

This is not knowledge even a very interested outside observer is going to have!!!

3) You yourself credited your "inside sources" for this.


The Observer article confirms my grapevine info.

Up to now, you've failed to give a credible explanation for how you know all these things only somebody deeply connected with the project would know.

How do you know all these things???

How does he know all these things?

And as for his claim of being a Mets fan at all: check out his posts! You'd think if he was actually a fan of the Mets, he'd post something, anything, about the team... But, alas, essentially nothing.

For what it's worth, I've been pretty active in the New York Mets forum, the Brooklyn Dodgers forum and the Baseball History forum, among others - as Casey Stengel used to say, " You could look it up".

Pretty much all biggiesmalls does is shill for this project night and day all over the internet.

Nice work if you can get it.

[SteveJRogers]

Lastly, I never said i was a "casual fan" with respect to this issue. I am a Mets fan of course, something we truly dont know about "IPO" or "Mongoose". All we know is they are anti-Wilpon. Which is not the topic of this thread.


Actually, unlike you and IPO, Mongoose swings by the other folders on this site (yeah I know, "you mean this ISN'T a stadium only site?") and posts often in the Met folder.

In other words, Mongoose at least isn't a one-issue pony.

[BiggieSmalls]

Actually, unlike you and IPO, Mongoose swings by the other folders on this site (yeah I know, "you mean this ISN'T a stadium only site?") and posts often in the Met folder.

In other words, Mongoose at least isn't a one-issue pony.
I find the baseball fever site hard to navigate and hard tofocus on many threads.

I do visit and comment on many many other Mets centric blogs. I have been a regular on Metsblog for almost three years for example. However the signal to noise over ratio there has increased over the past 6 months.

From scanning Mongooses 700 odd posts the VAST MAJORITY of them are railing on Major League baseball owners and management. With specific focus on the Wilpons and O'Malley's.

Thats fine .. whatever floats your boat.. but let's try to keep this on topic rather than questioning peoples "motives" and resorting to name calling to distract from the thread topic.

[BiggieSmalls]

Mongoose --

Ive answered your silly allegations in previous posts.

Why do you feel the need to REPOST your allegations and conspiracy theories rather than focus on the thread topic?

[BiggieSmalls]

The problem with that is Biggie himself keeps referring to himself as just a regular Joe; just your average Mets fan:


I consider myself an above average Mets Fan. Ive been following the team since the early 70's. Ive been attending games since then. Watch most every game and follow statistics pretty closely.. Very involved in the hot stove debate as well.

Not to brag, but I may have more raw intelligence than the average fan -- or the average American for that matter. I definitely have more education that most people and certainly count myself in the top percentile in terms of earned income.

But I bleed orange and blue just like other Mets fans. From browsing your 700 plus comments your agenda is to comment incessantly on how all owners are crooks dating back to the days of Branch Rickey.

Thats fine if that is what you are interested in. Just dont condemn and accuyse others for ulterior motives when they happen to be more well informed and educated on a topic. It should drive you to learn more about the topic -- not strike out against those that know more about it.

[Mongoose]

I find the baseball fever site hard to navigate and hard tofocus on many threads.

I do visit and comment on many many other Mets centric blogs. I have been a regular on Metsblog for almost three years for example. However the signal to noise over ratio there has increased over the past 6 months.

From scanning Mongooses 700 odd posts the VAST MAJORITY of them are railing on Major League baseball owners and management. With specific focus on the Wilpons and O'Malley's.

Thats fine .. whatever floats your boat.. but let's try to keep this on topic rather than questioning peoples "motives" and resorting to name calling to distract from the thread topic.

Oh really, how about this:

Who was a better money pitcher: Jerry Koosman or Tom Glavine?
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84675

By the way Mets fans, you can still vote on that poll.

See post 14 on this thread for my reasons for being dissatisfied with the current Mets management. As a fan, I feel they fail to deliver in many ways.

But a bigger problem with them is that they seem to be employing shills to push a particular agenda of theirs; an agenda which has contempt for basic property rights in this country:


His original statement was
This country was not built by seizing people's property to give it to the rich.

And I said he was incorrect because land was seized from Indians and given to Rich Europeans in order to "build this country".. As you point out, in the 19th century much land was "taken" from poor people in order to give it to rich people who developed bigger, better projects that are icons today

This kind of greedy villainous attitude is at the heart of my gripe with current ownership.

I was there before they bought the team, and God willing, I'll be there after they sell.

Just because I'm a Mets fan doesn't mean I have to believe it's right to steal land from poor people to give it to rich people.

[IPO]

Who do YOU work for IPO? you seem to have a constant anti Wilpon bias..

Sorry, but I go just as negative on the convicted felon x2 in the Bronx and I keep it all on baseball fever too.



Now Im not the biggest Wilpon fan. He is not the ideal owner. But this thread is aout WIllets Point. NOT THE WILPONS.

That's where your wrong when I post articles with comments from business owners that Wilpon wants established businesses out.



If you want to rail on the Wilpons open a new thread. If youwant to talk The Developement of Willets Point Im happy to do so.

They are both connected in this instance because this redevelopment would not even be on the table without Fredo and Jeff-R-Us and his field of schemes that honors Jackie Robinson in a rotunda for overcoming all the things Wilpon is trying to take from those people on his doorstep.

The KO and the credit all belongs to Mongoose who is one of the people here old enough to understand how great baseball was here before it became about what billionaire could buy the most hundred million dollar toys for a financial advantage to where baseball and New York are no longer longer a game but a show for the entitled.

[IPO]

Not to brag, but I may have more raw intelligence than the average fan -- or the average American for that matter. I definitely have more education that most people and certainly count myself in the top percentile in terms of earned income..

Too bad all that education and raw intelligence did not give you the common sense or the basic street smarts and ideals to understand everyone is equal from the rich guy in Fredo's restaurants and luxury suites spending thousands dollars at a baseball game to the man in those businesses at Willets Point working to support his family day by day and that both have the right to be there.

That's what the phony rotunda is supposed to represent meanwhile right next door the plan is to railroad those people our of their livelihood all in the name of everything that Jackie Robinson fought against.

People like you and Fredo with all that intelligence and money not only don't get it but are completely blind to stop and think about someone other than yourself for one minute of your life.

And that my friend is all on topic.

[BiggieSmalls]

Oh really, how about this:

Who was a better money pitcher: Jerry Koosman or Tom Glavine?
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84675


Koosman and it isnt even close in my mind. See we can agree on something.

I said "Vast Majority" of your posts were anti management/ownership which I stand by

[Jim Vaz]

Too bad all that education and raw intelligence did not give you the common sense or the basic street smarts and ideals to understand everyone is equal from the rich guy in Fredo's restaurants and luxury suites spending thousands dollars at a baseball game to the man in those businesses at Willets Point working to support his family day by day and that both have the right to be there.

That's what the phony rotunda is supposed to represent meanwhile right next door the plan is to railroad those people our of their livelihood all in the name of everything that Jackie Robinson fought against.

People like you and Fredo with all that intelligence and money not only don't get it but are completely blind to reality.

And that my friend is all on topic.

Just send them in already and get it done! :clapping
Don't worry, we'll save you a few for Nassau Massoleums demo!

[BiggieSmalls]

No one is brgrudging the Willets Point Worker the right to earn a living.

No one is advocating a nerve agent be released in the Iron Triangle on a Monday afternoon for means of mass extermination.

What is widely supported, and in fact happening, is the relocation of businesses to a more appropriate, cleaner location and the purchase of heavily polluted land for fair market value.

[IPO]

No one is brgrudging the Willets Point Worker the right to earn a living.

No one is advocating a nerve agent be released in the Iron Triangle on a Monday afternoon for means of mass extermination.

No, just that people are forced out of busineses that have been there for generations because you and Fredo don't like the view to the point now phony building code violations are being invented and businesses padlocked by the city to harass people.



What is widely supported, and in fact happening, is the relocation of businesses to a more appropriate, cleaner location and the purchase of heavily polluted land for fair market value.

Whether they want it or not under eminent domain law as they protest every chance they can to stay and be left alone.

[BiggieSmalls]

No one is being "forced out of business"/

if you conduct your affairs in an unlawful structure using procedures that dont comply with the Department of Environmental Protection or the Fire Department you SHOULD be forced to comply. And shut down until you fix what it wrong.

This is the law.

Further, the law of this land allows for landowners to be fairly compensated for their property should it be for a greater public purpose.. This law dates back over 1,000 years and is part of our Constitution. Willets Point is not the first time it MAY be used and it will not be the last. No minority of landowners will impede the progress of the masses.

This is the law.

[IPO]

No one is being "forced out of business"

if you conduct your affairs in an unlawful structure using procedures that dont comply with the Department of Environmental Protection or the Fire Department you SHOULD be forced to comply. And shut down until you fix what it wrong..

All you do is contradict yourself. One hand you write people should be forced to comply or shutdown inventing charges against those businesses and on the other feel they should be paid to relocate all in the name of Fredo's bank account and not the public interest except to pay for everything that will buy out the businesses and develop the area.



Further, the law of this land allows for landowners to be fairly compensated for their property should it be for a greater public purpose.. This law dates back over 1,000 years and is part of our Constitution. Willets Point is not the first time it MAY be used and it will not be the last. No minority of landowners will impede the progress of the masses.
This is the law.

Fredo and Jeff R-Us bank account is NOT the greater public purpose or the progress of the masses in any way shape or forum, it may be yours but it sure is not a city of people in a recession.

Those businesses have serviced that area for generations and has been the progress of the masses for everyone who has ever done business there.

[BiggieSmalls]

All you do is contradict yourself. One hand you write people should be forced to comply or shutdown inventing charges against those businesses and on the other feel they should be paid to relocate

"Forced to comply" is really a misnomer. Everyone is forced to comply with the law. There is no evidence that any charges are "invented". I am forced to comply with speed limits or my license to drive will be taken away.

Relocating the businesses is completely consistent with my previous thoughts. One of the Chief reasons to relocate these businesses is because their current property is so polluted that it is really the decent thing to do. Also, their structures are so beyond repair and built on such weak footings that moving them and tearing it all out is really the only alternative to cleaning the place up.

And again, despite your cutesy ramblings this is NOT about the Wilpons making money. As far as I can tell Sterling Equities is NOT in the bidding for any of the work. This is simply about FINALLY cleaning up an area that has been abused for far far too long.

[IPO]

"Forced to comply" is really a misnomer. Everyone is forced to comply with the law. There is no evidence that any charges are "invented". I am forced to comply with speed limits or my license to drive will be taken away.

Relocating the businesses is completely consistent with my previous thoughts. One of the Chief reasons to relocate these businesses is because their current property is so polluted that it is really the decent thing to do. Also, their structures are so beyond repair and built on such weak footings that moving them and tearing it all out is really the only alternative to cleaning the place up.

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/11/12/tomorrow_is_dday_for_willets_point_plan.php
4) The group representing landowners in Willets Point actually says the land isn't as toxic as the city claims. The city says is using the toxicity of the parcel as one of the reason it needs to buy the land and clean it up. But a statement from the WPIRA group says, in part: "...not enough testing has been performed to know what levels of contamination are present...Every industrial area in New York City, and many non-industrial areas, are likely to have the presence of various chemicals. What's important is not mere presence. A few molecules will not do any harm...The Willets Point area does not appear on the State Superfund, State Brownfields, or Federal Superfund lists – the official governmental lists of highly contaminated sites. And if the area were heavily contaminated, the City would not want to take title to it or be responsible for the possibly liability associated with such 'toxic" land.'"



And again, despite your cutesy ramblings this is NOT about the Wilpons making money. As far as I can tell Sterling Equities is NOT in the bidding for any of the work. This is simply about FINALLY cleaning up an area that has been abused for far far too long.

So how come you are not out there lobbying just as hard to clean up Newtown creek or the countless other area's that must be cleaned up immediately for the greater good. There are businesses there too and a lot of homes.

http://www.newtowncreekalliance.org/meeker.htm

My friend, the convicted felon in the Bronx got his neighborhood inside his ballpark and a much more expensive US Celluar II, Fredo wants every penny they got and more which starts with the revenue out of our pockets from Willets Point and paying to buyout those businesses and put in what makes money for him.

If you cannot see that or admit to it I cannot help you, that was part of the agenda from day one going back to 1995 or even earlier, Fredo wants his Brooklyn neighborhood to go with his Brooklyn ballpark.

[BiggieSmalls]

Newtown Creek should definitely be cleaned up as well.

But just because there are other areas equally or MORE polluted does not mean that Willets Point should not be cleaned up.

I really dont care if the Mets make money on the deal. The clean up and redevelopment of the mess is good for all New Yorkers.

The Iron Triangle is no longer zoned as an industrial waste land. The time is right to clean it up and put something there that will generate more revenue for the CITY.

[IPO]

The time is right to clean it up and put something there that will generate more revenue for the CITY.

The time is right for Fredo to drop his Brooklyn neighborhood obsession and for NYC to stand by those long-time businesses keeping them right where they are permanently with the same basic services every other community receives.

That place is not NYC's, Fredo Wilpon's or yours to take in the name of generating more revenue for anyone.

[BiggieSmalls]

That place is not NYC's, Fredo Wilpon's or yours to take in the name of generating more revenue for anyone.


Actually, the NYC EDC is, BY LAW, given the power to make such determinations of blight and execute plans to rid the blight in the interest of generating additional revenue for the City..

[IPO]

Actually, the NYC EDC is, BY LAW, given the power to make such determinations of blight and execute plans to rid the blight in the interest of generating additional revenue for the City..

Translation: The fix is in and has been from day one to railroad those people out by any means necessary, that joke ballpark would never have been built there otherwise.

Your here for the p.r internet campaign to promote it and I'm here to call a spade a spade and lobby for the Mets leaving before those people do.

[eatabagel]

Newtown Creek should definitely be cleaned up as well.

But just because there are other areas equally or MORE polluted does not mean that Willets Point should not be cleaned up.

I really dont care if the Mets make money on the deal. The clean up and redevelopment of the mess is good for all New Yorkers.

The Iron Triangle is no longer zoned as an industrial waste land. The time is right to clean it up and put something there that will generate more revenue for the CITY.

That's actually the way this should be approached. I do not want Willets Point redeveloped for Wilpon's sake. Citifield to me is inconsequential (particularly as I am a Yankees fan, and while I congratulate the Mets for a wonderful stadium, I couldn't care if the ownership profits from any Willets Point development or non-development). Willets Point redevelopment should not be for the benefit of Mets fans (though their happiness with a neighborhood to go to would be a happy side-effect). Redevelopment should be framed as a benefit of the borough of Queens and the people of Flushing and Corona.

It's as if people are forgetting that development in the City is beyond the construction of ballparks. As a long-time Queens resident who grew up near Shea Stadium and had to pass by the area all the time, I always felt that Willets Point has always been a blighted area. And I'm really glad that there are plans to take the blighted area, clean it up, and build it up to address the housing shortage-- FOR THE BENEFIT OF FLUSHING AND CORONA. I'll be glad as a baseball fan to have a place to go to for food before and after the game, but I'd be more glad as someone who grew up in Queens to have one less piece of urban blight.

[RoastedPeanut]

The only conclusion that can be drawn from this soup is that, be a proponent or the antagonist, life is going to change pretty drastically for anybody associated with Willet's Point; starting from now.

The lines that mark what once was and what is going to be have already been mapped.

One question might reside in wondering who is responsible for the course this path has led from.. The Valley of the Ashes was transformed into a bountiful park, yet...Willet's Point was left for zoning..?

Could it have been the fact that Willet's Point wasn't worth the effort to develop into any structure of integrity due to the water table and instability for foundations?

Would it have been known to the individuals who eventually set up shop in the Iron Triangle that their businesses would not meet any official certification for appropriate zoning?

That, this in turn led to a pattern of creating businesses far enough from the zoning standard of any durable structure..?

For which this was soon to be followed as an excuse for the city to not spend the needed attention for these businesses due to their sub-standard establishments..?

That the city's lack of attention granted these select businesses a compromise consisting of a great influx of business, prosperity, convenience, access, and monetary gain in exchange for lost city provided services..?

And that this cycle would continue until one day, when the stage was finally set, two entities would come crashing down upon each other like the airs of a hurricane..?

If I were a business at Willet's Point, facing what they're going through, I'd be pretty pissed. My entire life's work, my family's efforts, my grandfather's garage tossed into a pile of conflagration.. What would be the point..?

Objectively speaking, that land should never have been zoned for commercial use without the proper preparation of the land; encompassing interventions to combat the water table, pollutants, sanitation, and organization.

The truth of the matter is that the land should never have been anything other than a park until the city would be willing to lay the foundation for infrastructure.

The businesses ate up the cheap swamp land and made a killing. The city wasn't ready at the time to create a lasting goal for the area; an ideal that is now the heart of their eminent domain.

At the end of the day, greed and money are to blame for both the success of the eminent domain and the grabbing of the land by what are now the local business owners.

[IPO]

Redevelopment should be framed as a benefit of the borough of Queens and the people of Flushing and Corona. .

How is it a benefit to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to buy out established generational businesses with taxpayer money and take away the revenue those placed produced for NYC.

The train yards have been there forever, should they be displaced at billions more and should the seven train be moved for all those residences that will be built next to a subway, an LIRR link and countless highways with an airport landing strip next door?

What's next the airport has to go so Wilpon can make more money?

Some areas are not supposed to be residential, or about housing and hotels in an area packed with them at Laguardia, Flushing and even one on 112th street.

That's a business area just like the police impoud yards on the other side of Whitestone with the DMV or the shopping center or all the industrial business on the other side of flushing bay as you approach main street driving down college point bvd.

I guess Fredo's working his way east to main street.

This is all about a phony land grab so Fredo can line his pockets and regulate revenue that takes everything and gives back nothing.

And what happens in twenty years when his neighborhood is built and you look across Flushing bay and there are more of these nasty hardworking businesses with their ugly buildings?

[Atlantic Ave]

Apologies if this was posted... but if he's going to badger Biggie, who does IPO work for?

We're still having our cleanup as scheduled on Friday, however, because there's a lot they missed.

[eatabagel]

How is it a benefit to spend billions of taxpayer dollars to buy out established generational businesses with taxpayer money and take away the revenue those placed produced for NYC.

You seem to not see beyond the point of your nose.

They are not being denied the ability to ply their business. They should not have been there in the first place, as RoastedPeanut concluded in his post above yours. This is not their fault and is the City's from generations ago. But so be it, that's the situation they're in right now.




The train yards have been there forever, should they be displaced at billions more and should the seven train be moved for all those residences that will be built next to a subway, an LIRR link and countless highways with an airport landing strip next door?

Have you ever lived in Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, Corona and other neighborhoods next to the 7 train? Those residences and businesses seem to be doing fine right next to the 7 train, sandwiched by the LIE and the BQE, with the LGA right next door.



What's next the airport has to go so Wilpon can make more money?


There you go again not being able to see past Wilpon and the Mets. Flushing and Corona are dense neighborhoods that exist with or without Wilpon or the Mets. If you see beyond your hatred for the guy, then perhaps you will see that there are people in the area who stand to benefit from redevelopment regardless of the existence of the Mets. You're so Wilpon-centric in your views. But there are other actors involved than just Wilpon.

[BiggieSmalls]

One question might reside in wondering who is responsible for the course this path has led from.. The Valley of the Ashes was transformed into a bountiful park, yet...Willet's Point was left for zoning..?

Could it have been the fact that Willet's Point wasn't worth the effort to develop into any structure of integrity due to the water table and instability for foundations?



History tells that the area was once a garbage dump then part of the larger Ash dump known as the Valley of Ashes.

When Moses leveled and paved the Valley of Ashes in preparation for the first Worlds Fair the area that is now the Iron Triangle was designated as a staging area for the construction of the Worlds Fair Features. Later it remained a staging area for the building of the highway system that now surrounds it.

Then Came World War 2 and everyone focused on the War

It is during this period that the industrial and auto repair shops came to the Iron triangle. Willets transformed from a staging ground to an industrial area isolated by highway, the Flushing Bay, Flushing Meadow to the South and the rural areas of Flushing and Corona.

There were NEVER sewers in the area. It was ALWAYS served by septic systems. When Moses tried to encorporate the area into the second Worlds Fair the industrial businesses who now dominated the area hired a young hot shot lawyer named Mario Cuomo to fight.

In the late 20th century in the years after Shea was built the area became more and more polluted and dense as more auto and manufacturing companies came to Willets for the cheap land and synergies of having all similar businesses in one area
Building codes and environmental laws have been largely ignored by the occupants for more than 60 years. There are now bustling populated areas to the east, north and west of the area and the largest park in NYC to the south.

So now we stand in the early part of the 21st century with the same hot festering mess that started before World War 2 and, if it was up to the current residents, would continue ad infinitum.

[Paul W]

you must be a politician, you can't answer a simple question...

again...why is this so important to you???

[IPO]

They are not being denied the ability to ply their business. They should not have been there in the first place, as RoastedPeanut concluded in his post above yours. This is not their fault and is the City's from generations ago. But so be it, that's the situation they're in right now.

The Mets should never have been there in the first place either by that logic and should absolutely never have constructed a ballpark on their doorstep when Shea was a perfectly functional ballpark.



Have you ever lived in Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, Corona and other neighborhoods next to the 7 train? Those residences and businesses seem to be doing fine right next to the 7 train, sandwiched by the LIE and the BQE, with the LGA right next door.

My entire life and if you live there you would NEVER write such a thing. Without all the apartment buildings muffling some of the train noise you can hear it all the way from 34th avenue on a bad day with plenty of plane noise depending on where the landing patterns are shifted.



There you go again not being able to see past Wilpon and the Mets. Flushing and Corona are dense neighborhoods that exist with or without Wilpon or the Mets. If you see beyond your hatred for the guy, then perhaps you will see that there are people in the area who stand to benefit from redevelopment regardless of the existence of the Mets. You're so Wilpon-centric in your views. But there are other actors involved than just Wilpon.

This is only happening because of Fredo and his field of schemes this is entirely about him and his wallet. If you honestly can write with a straight face NYC would be spending billions to buyout established businesses and redevelop land with no baseball stadium there you are kidding only yourself or simply that loyal to anything that represents the Mets brand to where you cannot see past the rim of the Mets baseball cap.

Fredo is on the record, he said in 2007 those businesses have to go, don't write he is some kind of innocent bystander no one benefits more than him and a lot of people are trampled for the privilege.

[IPO]

you must be a politician, you can't answer a simple question...

Because it's the right thing for a lot of people who invested their lives daily into something long before Shea while you just want a better view on your way to sit in a new plastic seat for three hours eighty one times a year.

[IPO]

So now we stand in the early part of the 21st century with the same hot festering mess that started before World War 2 and, if it was up to the current residents, would continue ad infinitum.

Not just the current residents, generations of people who invested their lives on that property and were there before baseball and have the right to be there a lot more than someone who put a ballpark on their doorstep.

[Paul W]

frankly, i wouldn't care less if the triangle stays the way it is. i go to an ocassional game and go home.
i'm not looking for the external "entertainment experience" anywhere - just interested in the game!!!
the blow-hard can't be honest about why all of this hot air is being expended. does he have a financial stake in all of this, is he someone who dose'nt have a life and this (and the attention) becomes his life?

"...enjoy the game more..." - jeff kent

[metfan61]

This place is a living crime scene. The toxic waste, oil, dead bodies and whatever else lies beneath the ground must be cleaned up. That fact that the property owners don't go to jail should be enough to make them happy. The city is relocating them and paying for the cleanup for the most part. So I say on with progress and let's bring the Islanders, Nets and Dragons there.

[BiggieSmalls]

frankly, i wouldn't care less if the triangle stays the way it is. i go to an ocassional game and go home.
i'm not looking for the external "entertainment experience" anywhere - just interested in the game!!!


Then why spend even ten seconds making a comment on the thread?

[BiggieSmalls]

Not just the current residents, generations of people who invested their lives on that property and were there before baseball and have the right to be there a lot more than someone who put a ballpark on their doorstep.



As to "residents" there is just ONE. in a non conforming illegal apartment.

Generations? really? besides Bono who is militantly wanting to stay and is not located in phase one and Fodera who has negotiated to stay for 10 years who is there for "generations?" And who has "invested their lives"? 85% of the structures -- and 99 % in phase one -- are tin shacks that are
1. not up to building codes
2. do not have valid certificates of occupancy,
3. dont have any regard for environmental practices
4. and are fire traps.

[Paul W]

nyc/nys taxpayers should not be sucked into this boondoggle...

besides i enjoy pullin' you chain...

[IPO]

frankly, i wouldn't care less if the triangle stays the way it is. i go to an ocassional game and go home.
i'm not looking for the external "entertainment experience" anywhere - just interested in the game!!!
the blow-hard can't be honest about why all of this hot air is being expended. does he have a financial stake in all of this, is he someone who dose'nt have a life and this (and the attention) becomes his life?

"...enjoy the game more..." - jeff kent

Paul, it must kill you that there are actually people out there who have no stake in anything but everyone treated exactly the same. Keep that in mind when you walk in Jackie Robinson's rotunda who would be siding with those people and demanding his name be removed from that phony rotunda if he were alive today if those people have to be stepped over for him to have it.

That's the most honest thing you will read here.

[Mongoose]

Not to brag, but I may have more raw intelligence than the average fan -- or the average American for that matter. I definitely have more education that most people and certainly count myself in the top percentile in terms of earned income.

Well, obviously you consider yourself smarter than most Mets fans. Otherwise you wouldn't have the haughty contempt to talk to us like children and think of us as willing idiot stooges in your dirty tricks campaign:


Battle lines have been drawn.

Mets fans are mobilized to clean up the east side of 126th street.

Who wants that hot mess less than 30 feet from our entrance.

Unacceptable.

DoT and NYPD are rolling based on 311 calls. I would encourage all to make calls regarding the illegal parking on the sidewalk. The more that call the faster things get done.

Take back our street!!!

Even if you are against Eminent Domain for the entire site you can not be happy with the lawlessness on the east side of 126th street. This needs to be recified and WILL BE>

Between now and opening day call 311 (212-NEW-YORK) and report the parking situation as an eyewitness. 110th Precinct will send rollers and tow trucks to stop this nonsense.

Step up and protect our new stadium.

By the way, in case anyone missed it, this was part of a concerted dirty tricks campaign to screw over the Willets Point business owners. This 311 offensive that you were fomenting on this forum resulted, in part, in the following multi-agency raids a few days later:


From the Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/..._disgust_.html

-----------------
Biz raids in Willets Met with disgust

BY John Lauinger
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Sunday, April 5th 2009, 4:00 AM

The city is playing hardball with businesses near the Mets' new stadium, a Queens official charges.

In the days leading up to the Mets' exhibition opener last week at Citi Field, city agencies made a sweep of businesses at Willets Point, a gritty industrial zone across from the $850 million stadium.

The multi-agency raids on Thursday and Friday ended with 11 businesses shut down, according to state Sen. Hiram Monserrate (D-Queens).

Most of the businesses were auto-body shops that rent space in the 62-acre strip, which the city plans to redevelop into a glitzy realm of 5,500 housing units, retail stores, a hotel and a convention center.

-----------------

11 more Businesses at 3 locations were fully vacated on thursday and Friday.

This coordinated perfectly with our targeted campaign against the illegal parkers along 126th street.

Thanks to those Mets Fans who supported the effort with 311 calls.

These are tangible results and a move towards cleaning up the Iron Triangle.

You even admit here that the campaign of 311 calls was coordinated with the raids!!! What a sorry shill you are.

I guess after Madoff screwed Wilpon out of hundreds of millions of dollars, it's hard for him to afford good help these days.

[Paul W]

Keep that in mind when you walk in Jackie Robinson's rotunda who would be siding with those people and demanding his name be removed from that phony rotunda if he were alive today if those people have to be stepped over for him to have it.

That's the most honest thing you will read here.

robinson's contribution needs to be acknowledged, too bad branch rickey doesn't get much for sticking his neck out. if fred-o want's to do that, fine. as long as taxpayer $$$'s don't pay for it. those who have built businesses in the triangle deserve their opportunity to continue their endeavors (pretty or not).
nothing "kills" me but hypocrisy.

[BiggieSmalls]

You even admit here that the campaign of 311 calls was coordinated with the raids!!! What a sorry shill you are.
I guess after Madoff screwed Wilpon out of hundreds of millions of dollars, it's hard for him to afford good help these days.


If one person could effect such change that you describe in the span of three days I would hardly describe that person as you did --

There is no greater disaster
than underestimating your enemy.
Underestimating your enemy
means loosing your greatest assets.
Sun Tzu - The Art of War.

[BiggieSmalls]

Keep that in mind when you walk in Jackie Robinson's rotunda who would be siding with those people and demanding his name be removed from that phony rotunda if he were alive today if those people have to be stepped over for him to have it.


I didnt know you now speak for the Late Jackie Robinson.

Pity you have such a poor command of the language.

[Mongoose]

If one person could effect such change that you describe in the span of three days I would hardly describe that person as you did --

There is no greater disaster
than underestimating your enemy.
Underestimating your enemy
means loosing your greatest assets.
Sun Tzu - The Art of War.

1) I don't really consider you an enemy; you're just doing your job.

2) As you yourself indicated, it was a coordinated effort of which you were only a small part.

3) Despite the formidable education you claim to have, you misspelled "losing".

[BiggieSmalls]

Here we go with the conspiracy theories.

this is a grass routes campaign organized by like minded Mets fans.

If the fans spoke out and effected any change more power to us.

we should keep up the calls to 311 as a way to keep the perpetrators on their heels.

The addresses shut down where:

126-75 38 Avenue
126-52 Willets Point Boulevard
126-58 Willets Point Boulevard

Keep up the pressure on these lawless offenders.

[Fudbutter]

Sorry but maybe i'm getting early senility, but other than an arena which would be wonderful but impracticle, what viable business can be placed where the chop shops are now?

I'm not looking to be contrary, just trying to understand.

[SteveJRogers]

Sorry but maybe i'm getting early senility, but other than an arena which would be wonderful but impracticle, what viable business can be placed where the chop shops are now?

I'm not looking to be contrary, just trying to understand.

Restaurants, bars (both would HAVE to be cheaper and less exclusive than the ones in Citi Field), hotels, shops. Think of it like Yawkey Way, Wrigleyville, or the bars, restaurants and souvenir shops around the Subway at Yankee Stadium. Basically a hub of commerce that would be a good place to meet before the game, after the game, and all year round for various neighborhoods in the district. That would probably be a good come on for those who live in Corona, Flushing, and all of the surrounding neighborhoods.

[BiggieSmalls]

Sorry but maybe i'm getting early senility, but other than an arena which would be wonderful but impracticle, what viable business can be placed where the chop shops are now?

I'm not looking to be contrary, just trying to understand.

-- Large scale Movie theatres with Imax,
-- indoor batting cages,
-- indoor go kart racing Grand prix New York http://www.gpny.com
-- indoor laser tag
-- Aquarium
-- indoor roller rink/ice skating
-- indoor amusements/games .
-- any type of group bsed entertainment destination including rides for all ages (indoor/outdoor roller coasters/romper rooms)./
-- indoor mall with shopping concourse/
-- international food center developed around House of Spices and Fodera Foods (existing businesses that are staying for at least 10 years
-- TV / Broadcast / Production center to supplement Kaufmann Astoria Studios

[Fudbutter]

Restaurants, bars (both would HAVE to be cheaper and less exclusive than the ones in Citi Field), hotels, shops. Think of it like Yawkey Way, Wrigleyville, or the bars, restaurants and souvenir shops around the Subway at Yankee Stadium. Basically a hub of commerce that would be a good place to meet before the game, after the game, and all year round for various neighborhoods in the district. That would probably be a good come on for those who live in Corona, Flushing, and all of the surrounding neighborhoods.

The problem is that area is blocked off by the stadium, the rivers and the Roosevelt Ave bridge. Just CF alone is not anough of a traffic to support any of what you listed. It's a nice dream, I would love more choices than the Pine or getting in the 7 one stop for Main Street but it makes no sense.

Yawkee Way, the area around Wrigley, the one around Jacobs Field, etc are in the cities. Flushing is the butt end of Queens (sorry if that offends). It's at the end of a long subway/el line and not a place you would go to unless you were going to the game.

Restaurants and bars without covers die. Covers are people who walk in the door. The cost of buildout and financing equipment demands almost immediate response to keep such establishments from bleeding cash.

No one in their right mind would invest or finance such a business. There is simply insuffiecient capacity to support it.

Now an arena makes perfect sense, but you would need two teams committed to it before you build it.

[Fudbutter]

-- Large scale Movie theatres with Imax,
-- indoor batting cages,
-- indoor go kart racing Grand prix New York http://www.gpny.com
-- indoor laser tag
-- Aquarium
-- indoor roller rink/ice skating
-- indoor amusements/games .
-- any type of group bsed entertainment destination including rides for all ages (indoor/outdoor roller coasters/romper rooms)./
-- indoor mall with shopping concourse/
-- international food center developed around House of Spices and Fodera Foods (existing businesses that are staying for at least 10 years
-- TV / Broadcast / Production center to supplement Kaufmann Astoria Studios

Well if nothing else, I do applaud your tenacity. Same comment as above. You can't create a destination. Location, location, location means you build where the market is.

[NJTankMets]

WFAN would love to see a new studio I hear the one in Astoria is a dump

[Gary Dunaier]

WFAN would love to see a new studio I hear the one in Astoria is a dump

It may be a dump but it's our... sorry, force of habit... :sorry:

[metsforever7515]

It may be a dump but it's our... sorry, force of habit... :sorry:

:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh

[BiggieSmalls]

You can't create a destination. Location, location, location means you build where the market is.

Have you been following Meadowlands Xanadu? Not that that is the ultimate solution but they are building a 2 billion dollar sports/entertainment/retail complex right next to the new giants/jets stadium -- which is REALLY in the middle of NOWHERE>

http://www.meadowlandsxanadu.com

[mandrake]

Have you been following Meadowlands Xanadu? Not that that is the ultimate solution but they are building a 2 billion dollar sports/entertainment/retail complex right next to the new giants/jets stadium -- which is REALLY in the middle of NOWHERE>

http://www.meadowlandsxanadu.com

Isn't that Xanadu project in dire shape? I saw something on TV where the project may be headed for bankruptcy.

Anyway, I admit that the Iron triangle is an eyesore, it's an enviromental nightmare, and it probably is the sight where stolen cars are sent to be cut up. I think the whole place needs to be razed; when the soil tests show that the toxins are deadly, then pave the place over and use it as a parking lot.

Forget Atlantic Yards and the Lighthouse projects. Combine them and put up an arena just north of the Unisphere. Incorporate the history of the 39/40 and 64/65 WF's into the complex. Have a state of the art arena for the Isles and Nets. Develop a retail area that can serve Citi, the arena, and The US Open crowd; have a site accesible to these 3 venues.

As for predicting where Jacki Robinson would stand...who knows? In life, he had many different sides. He was regarded as an activist, yet he was a proud Rockefeller Republican (loved Rocky) and actually campaigned for Nixon over JFK. So nobody here, including myself, can state where JR would stand on any issue.

[kramtelak]

No one is being "forced out of business"/

if you conduct your affairs in an unlawful structure using procedures that dont comply with the Department of Environmental Protection or the Fire Department you SHOULD be forced to comply. And shut down until you fix what it wrong.

This is the law.

Further, the law of this land allows for landowners to be fairly compensated for their property should it be for a greater public purpose.. This law dates back over 1,000 years and is part of our Constitution. Willets Point is not the first time it MAY be used and it will not be the last. No minority of landowners will impede the progress of the masses.

This is the law. Barack is that you? Don't know your politics and don't really care but I love how people and politicians feel they have the right to take away peoples land that they own and paid for. The intent of Eminent Domain was not take peoples land because someone doesn't like the look of your business or what business you conduct. So long as it's legal. This unfortunatley sounds like political pressure being brought to bear by the usual leaders of NYC who think they own all land and that all the peoples money is theirs to do with as they wish. Be careful about using eminent domain because you know the old saying I didn't protest when they came for my neighbor I didn't protest when they came for my friend Now when they come for your land will you protest? Probably not I'm guessing you'll say it's for the greater good which to me sounds like socialism. Not in my country! BTW this fairly compensated is never at fair market value it's what the government considers FMV!

[IPO]

Barack is that you? Don't know your politics and don't really care but I love how people and politicians feel they have the right to take away peoples land that they own and paid for. The intent of Eminent Domain was not take peoples land because someone doesn't like the look of your business or what business you conduct. So long as it's legal. This unfortunatley sounds like political pressure being brought to bear by the usual leaders of NYC who think they own all land and that all the peoples money is theirs to do with as they wish. !

This is all about a land grab for Fredo and lining his pockets, without his Brooklyn Ballpark he would not be railroading NYC into bullying out his neighbors by and means fair or foul now for him to get his Brooklyn neighborhood.

Now that the Field of schemes project is done on our dime we next have to pay for Fredo to turn up the pressure on his neighbors because Fredo does not want neighbors, he wants his own neighborhood.

Fredo and Jeff-R-Us look out of their new window and don't like the view, no one told them to leave Shea and move even closer.

[BiggieSmalls]

Isn't that Xanadu project in dire shape? I saw something on TV where the project may be headed for bankruptcy.


Well it is not complete yet. But the discussion was about building a destination entertainment complex in an out of the way area near an arena.

Even though Willets Point is HARDLY considered "out of the way". Xanadu represents the building of a destination sports/retail/commercial/entertainment hub in an out of the way area surrounded by a sports complex.

There are many many options for constructing a meaningful 365 day a year community in the current Iron Triangle. One only has to look around to see examples of thriving communities developed around these types of complexes. It will take time but it is doable.


Your suggestions hold merit. I was reading that the USTA has an RFP to put a roof on the Main tennis arena for possible use as basketball/hockey/entertainment. The deadline is very soon for that RFP.

[BiggieSmalls]

I love how people and politicians feel they have the right to take away peoples land that they own and paid for. The intent of Eminent Domain was not take peoples land because someone doesn't like the look of your business or what business you conduct. So long as it's legal.

The NYC EDC is tasked by law to use Eminient Domain to rid the City of Blight and develop areas that will generate revenue for the City and provide benefits for the population.

The courts have repeatedly supported the charter of the EDC. The Law is the Law.

If I owned property that was in a blighted state, heavily polluted and underdeveloped to the extent that the Iron Triangle is then I would be concerned about ED. My property is in no such state so I have no such fear.

Conversely, if the Govt wants to pay me fair market value for my property Im willing to talk. It is JUST PROPERTY. Not my First born.,

[queens4life]

http://irontriangletracker.com/2009/04/07/edc-solicits-infrastructure-bids/

don't know if this was posted.......

[IPO]

Anyway, I admit that the Iron triangle is an eyesore, it's an enviromental nightmare, and it probably is the sight where stolen cars are sent to be cut up. I think the whole place needs to be razed; when the soil tests show that the toxins are deadly, then pave the place over and use it as a parking lot.

Mandrake enough articles have been posted claiming it's not an enviornmental nightmare or toxic, it's a auto repair and salvage community for the most part and that's what they are supposed to look like.

What's next the police impound has to go on the other side of the Whitestone or the heavy industry on the other side of Flushing creek?

Some of you are very good at telling us what should be demolished for what you want, how would you feel people said this about where you work and live in some cases?

They don't need a retail area to service a greedy pompous baseball owner who's already getting a free ride on our dime in an economy where everyone is going bankrupt but Fredo because he needs to sell more food and t-shirts eighty one days a year.

Mandrake, I have no doubt Robinson would never allow everything he fought
against be portrayed in a hall while that same person owning the hall is doing that to those people.

[mandrake]

Mandrake enough articles have been posted claiming it's not an enviornmental nightmare or toxic, it's a auto repair and salvage community for the most part and that's what they are supposed to look like.

Mandrake, I have no doubt Robinson would never allow everything he fought
against be portrayed in a hall while that same person owning the hall is doing that to those people.

I personally saw people, with my own eyes, changing their oil and pouring it on the ground. There isn't supposed to be a sewer system there, so where did that oil go? And you think that was the only time oil has was poured on the ground. If I did that in my back yard, or even my drive way, I'd be eating dinner tonite in the OC jail.

And since you are able to predict what Robinson would do, then can you predict the winner of the Kentucky Derby so I can put down a deuce?

[IPO]

I personally saw people, with my own eyes, changing their oil and pouring it on the ground. There isn't supposed to be a sewer system there, so where did that oil go?

There is supposed to be a sewer system there, in fact the links above they are already talking about what should have been there for decades. Oil on the ground happens at auto-repair shops as people work, are you there at the end of the day when it's time to clean up the grounds?

[Ralf]

There is supposed to be a sewer system there, in fact the links above they are already talking about what should have been there for decades. Oil on the ground happens at auto-repair shops as people work, are you there at the end of the day when it's time to clean up the grounds?

Excuses excuses.

[IPO]

Excuses excuses.

And they are all on Fredo's side and NYC's side.

[IPO]

http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:d5eTtUo0cJYJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html%3Fres%3D9805E1DE123EF937A15754C0A962 958260+willets+point,+fred+wilpon&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

NEIGHBORHOOD REPORT: WILLETS POINT Enough Yankees Already. The Mets Have Their Own Plans

By NORIMITSU ONISHI
Published: July 24, 1994

Even as the Yankees' future in the South Bronx becomes more and more uncertain, the Mets are making sweeping plans that could profoundly alter the face of Queens.

Fred Wilpon, a co-owner of the team, said that if all goes according to his plans, the Mets will be playing in a new domed stadium just east of Shea within four years. The old Shea Stadium will be torn down and replaced by a giant parking garage. Around it, Mr. Wilpon said, there will be an entertainment center with a permanent, high-tech "world's fair."

The plans were announced last year, but within the next two weeks, the Mets are to give the city a report detailing projected costs and financing of the stadium, and the city will begin the process of relocating small businesses in the area of growth.


Rudy Washington, the commissioner of the city's Department of Business Services, said that after reviewing the Mets' report, he and community leaders would discuss the project's impact on Queens. He planned to speak with business owners in the Willets Point Industrial Park, just east of Shea Stadium. Those businesses will have to be moved to make way for the stadium and entertainment center, he said.

Although Mr. Wilpon declined to reveal projected costs of the stadium, he said revenues from its operation would cover construction costs. "We will not ask for any general funds from the city or the state," he said.

Shea Stadium, which opened in 1964, is owned by the city. The Mets' lease expires at the end of 2,004.

The Mets hope a new stadium and entertainment center will return attendance figures to the levels of the mid to late 1980's, when about 3.5 million fans went each season. Last season, attendance was 1.8 million.

Proponents of a domed stadium say the Shea, while adequate, lacks the distinctiveness that makes the stadiums in Toronto and Baltimore inspire crowds, no matter how well the hometown teams perform. They say the 30-year-old structure is rundown and "generic" and could not be part of an entertainment mecca attracting tourists who would otherwise not visit Queens.

Mr. Wilpon said the Toronto Blue Jays have averaged four million for the last three years, partly because of the team's success, but also partly because of its new Skydome. To reach those attendance figures, he said, baseball must be supplemented with other kinds of entertainment.

The project is still more drawing paper than contract, but Mr. Wilpon's dreams are detailed. He hopes companies will set up pavilions to showcase a particular theme, like the Wild West, and ticket buyers would be transported there through virtual-reality and other interactive technologies.

[Gary Dunaier]

Be careful about using eminent domain because you know the old saying I didn't protest when they came for my neighbor I didn't protest when they came for my friend Now when they come for your land will you protest?


In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

-- Martin Niemoller

[mandrake]

[QUOTE=IPO;1486777]http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:d5eTtUo0cJYJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html%3Fres%3D9805E1DE123EF937A15754C0A962 958260+willets+point,+fred+wilpon&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

NEIGHBORHOOD REPORT: WILLETS POINT Enough Yankees Already. The Mets Have Their Own Plans

By NORIMITSU ONISHI
Published: July 24, 1994

Well, you got me here ! This article is nearly 15 years old and your point is.....?????????:crazy

[IPO]

http://74.125.93.104/search?q=cache:d5eTtUo0cJYJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html%3Fres%3D9805E1DE123EF937A15754C0A962 958260+willets+point,+fred+wilpon&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

NEIGHBORHOOD REPORT: WILLETS POINT Enough Yankees Already. The Mets Have Their Own Plans

By NORIMITSU ONISHI
Published: July 24, 1994

Well, you got me here ! This article is nearly 15 years old and your point is.....?????????:crazy

My point is Fredo's grand plan has been to kick out the people there before him for a long, long time like those people's businesses are his to do with as he wishes.

[Ralf]

And they are all on Fredo's side and NYC's side.

I'm on my own side, which is the side of progress. I don't understand how anyone could be on the side of pollutants and illegal chop shops. Maybe you have a financial interest in keeping these illegal businesses open.

[IPO]

I'm on my own side, which is the side of progress. I don't understand how anyone could be on the side of pollutants and illegal chop shops. Maybe you have a financial interest in keeping these illegal businesses open.

You keep writing these businesses are illegal, that's not correct, the fact the City is trying to pay them (for Fredo) on our dime proves that point.

How many articles have to be posted proving the area is not contaminated.

The only side I am on is that they get to stay and work where they are for the same reason you should not be displaced from where you work/live.

The only side you seem to be on is what's good for Met baseball because I did not see Met fans claiming those businesses were a deterrent to progress until we build Fredo a ballpark on their doorstep.

[Paul W]

You keep writing these businesses are illegal, that's not correct, the fact the City is trying to pay them (for Fredo) on our dime proves that point.

How many articles have to be posted proving the area is not contaminated.

The only side I am on is that they get to stay and work where they are for the same reason you should not be displaced from where you work/live.

The only side you seem to be on is what's good for Met baseball because I did not see Met fans claiming those businesses were a deterrent to progress until we build Fredo a ballpark on their doorstep.

dead-on!!!

[BiggieSmalls]

How many articles have to be posted proving the area is not contaminated.
.

I havent seen any.

What I HAVE seen is Oil drained directly into the ground.

Cars being stripped of their paint right out in the open and teh solvents washing into the ground.

Anti Freeze being drained directly into the ground.

Cars being painted right out in the open./

Car parts rusting away on the ROOFS of dozens of establishments.

You are not SUPPOSED TO get oil on the ground in an industrial area. Most are VERY VERY Careful.

There are near a hundred undocumented underground storage tanks in the area leaking everything from hydraulic fluid to used motor oil.

There is a reason most of the owners who have not settled will not allow testing on their property. Of the businesses who have sold and ALLOWED ground testers the results have been NOT pretty.

Are really going to take the position that the Iron Triangle is a typical auto repair and salvage district in terms of the pollution?

Do a quick search of the DEP web site and read some of the open complaints. That will open your eyes.

[BiggieSmalls]

You keep writing these businesses are illegal, that's not correct,

Look in the NYC Department of Buildings database and see how illegal these structures are.

Look in the Department of Environmental Protection and read about the open violations.

Do some searches and read about the history of organized crime and auto parts theft in the area.

The businesses are not selling crack in the street but they are operating in a lawless environment reminiscent of the Wild Wild West. Now that the DoB, DEP and FDNY are cracking down on the area and shutting down the most egregious offenders they are all looking around saying "Huh.. what's this all about"

[Ralf]

Look in the NYC Department of Buildings database and see how illegal these structures are.

Look in the Department of Environmental Protection and read about the open violations.

Do some searches and read about the history of organized crime and auto parts theft in the area.

The businesses are not selling crack in the street but they are operating in a lawless environment reminiscent of the Wild Wild West. Now that the DoB, DEP and FDNY are cracking down on the area and shutting down the most egregious offenders they are all looking around saying "Huh.. what's this all about"

dead-on!!!

[IPO]

I havent seen any.
What I HAVE seen is Oil drained directly into the ground.
Cars being stripped of their paint right out in the open and teh solvents washing into the ground.
Anti Freeze being drained directly into the ground.
Cars being painted right out in the open./
Car parts rusting away on the ROOFS of dozens of establishments.

You are not SUPPOSED TO get oil on the ground in an industrial area. Most are VERY VERY Careful.

There are near a hundred undocumented underground storage tanks in the area leaking everything from hydraulic fluid to used motor oil.

There is a reason most of the owners who have not settled will not allow testing on their property. Of the businesses who have sold and ALLOWED ground testers the results have been NOT pretty.


Spoken like someone with an office right next to Jeff-R-Us and Fredo who look out the window from their new castle and are furious they can't kick out and bully their hard working neighbors who have been there forever.

This from an owner who has rust already on his new ballpark before it opened and was the only one who built a new cookie cutter without upper deck portals like everyone else so every seat in the upper deck first row you have to watch a game through a plastic box. :laugh

This guys writing here about shacks and oil-antifreeze should start in his own joke ballpark that is a living violation that makes those businesses look like the Vatican by comparison. We had better views at the only home of the New York Mets William A Shea Municipal Stadium.

Lose 15,000 seats and dumb dumb Fredo and Jeff-R-Us still could not get it right with more obstructed view seats than ever, I bet it's going to get very interesting when someone besides Bloomberg's approval puppets starts digging around this place for violations.

START REBUILDING SHEA, DEMOLISH FREDO'S RESTAURANT NOW AND SAVE THE TAXPAYERS SOME MONEY FOR ONCE.
*********************************
RUSTY START FOR METS
By IKIMULISA LIVINGSTON and RICH CALDER

January 12, 2009 --
They were going for an old-time feel - but not that old!

Spanking-new, $850 million Citi Field is already beginning to rust.

A Post reporter spotted brown water from a rusty beam creeping down the wall of the front entrance of Citi Field's main gate in Flushing, Queens, on 126th Street. The Mets are set to move there in April.

Rob Bedelis, a mechanical engineer who helped build the Milwaukee Brewers' Miller Park, said Citi Field shouldn't be rusting a little over two years after the start of construction.

"It's a sign of the quality of workmanship," he said. "If I were a fan, I wouldn't be too thrilled. This might be cosmetic and not structural, but fans are paying a lot of money for baseball tickets."

The contractor, Hunt-Bovis, didn't return phone messages.

A Met spokesman said, "We are aware of the rust [and] plan to take care of it. It is no concern."

Some Met fans, however, weren't too happy.

"That is disappointing," said 25-year-old Jeffrey Ku of Flushing. "It is supposed to be a state-of-the-art stadium, and it has rust. They might as well have stuck with Shea Stadium."

[IPO]

Do windshield wipers come with those row A upper deck seats? I bet you can get Jeff-R-Us can get a good deal across the street. :D:D

Hey Fredo, looks like your car lost a little weight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNG-xrnaSE4

[Mongoose]

I'm on my own side, which is the side of progress. I don't understand how anyone could be on the side of pollutants and illegal chop shops. Maybe you have a financial interest in keeping these illegal businesses open.

We all have a financial interest in keeping the Willets Point businesses open:

The big chrome and plastic white elephant Wilpon is agitating for will cost $3+ billion - and this at a time taxes and fees are going up and essential services are withering away!

Right now, the public is already into this fiasco for $400,000,000.00. This number can only go up, and there's no sign of any private money on the horizon. I've got no problem with any Willets Point development project that's exclusively funded by private money. When such a project is presented with no public involvement or eminent domain abuse, I'll be happy to support the initiative. As long as it's more real estate hustlers and insiders manipulating government to do their dirty work free of charge while sucking at the public tit, though, one can only respond with disgust.

[pauliedanger]

Firefighters are not being terminated in New York City.

As a volunteer f/f in Pennsylvania, I usually perk up whenever I hear the fire service mentioned.

In this case, it was the dopey Mongoose using FDNY's men losing jobs as a battle cry to throw more hate at Wilpon. (Whatever, as long as the Mets keep choking, I could care what he does.)

But the fact of the matter is that as of December 2008 (the newest article I could find on the matter), ZERO FDNY firemen were being laid off.

Four houses were being closed for overnight hours only (between 6pm and 9am), and these are in areas where there apparatus overlaps other houses.

FDNY has slowed their hiring, and reduced their overall training budget and have shortened fire school from 23 to 18 weeks. But, the fact is you learn to fight fire by fighting fire. You can pop your cherry and control the fear in the controlled elements of fire school, but you learn the job on the job.

So, that part at least, isn't true.

Now, I also think that having CitiField in an attractive area with places for people to spend money, and put more cash back into the city (what's sales tax in NYC, like 40%?) is good for New York. And I hate to admit that, because the entire city could implode, fall into the ocean and never be seen again, and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

Mongoose, you just need to release your hate. Your rampant crying and whinging won't change it. Go and enjoy the new stadium, and when the new stores are build, enjoy those, too. Not because you fell in love with your owner, but because your a baseball fan, in New York City, and that's what baseball fans in NYC do.

And just be glad that thanks to the Phillies, you won't have to worry about buying any playoff tickets this year, either.

[Mongoose]

Firefighters are not being terminated in New York City.

As a volunteer f/f in Pennsylvania, I usually perk up whenever I hear the fire service mentioned.

In this case, it was the dopey Mongoose using FDNY's men losing jobs as a battle cry to throw more hate at Wilpon. (Whatever, as long as the Mets keep choking, I could care what he does.)

But the fact of the matter is that as of December 2008 (the newest article I could find on the matter), ZERO FDNY firemen were being laid off.

Four houses were being closed for overnight hours only (between 6pm and 9am), and these are in areas where there apparatus overlaps other houses.

FDNY has slowed their hiring, and reduced their overall training budget and have shortened fire school from 23 to 18 weeks. But, the fact is you learn to fight fire by fighting fire. You can pop your cherry and control the fear in the controlled elements of fire school, but you learn the job on the job.

So, that part at least, isn't true.

Now, I also think that having CitiField in an attractive area with places for people to spend money, and put more cash back into the city (what's sales tax in NYC, like 40%?) is good for New York. And I hate to admit that, because the entire city could implode, fall into the ocean and never be seen again, and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

Mongoose, you just need to release your hate. Your rampant crying and whinging won't change it. Go and enjoy the new stadium, and when the new stores are build, enjoy those, too. Not because you fell in love with your owner, but because your a baseball fan, in New York City, and that's what baseball fans in NYC do.

And just be glad that thanks to the Phillies, you won't have to worry about buying any playoff tickets this year, either.

Firefighters' jobs are indeed being lost - through attrition rather than layoffs - but they're being lost all the same. And firehouses are indeed being closed permanently - you're dead wrong here. Reductions in service are steep and you can read the numerous links I posted to find out about them:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/01/30/2009-01-30_mayor_bloomberg_paints_grim_economic_pic.html

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/03/bloomberg-orders-4-more-firehouses.html

http://ufalocal94.org/cms/contents/view/6234

http://lostnewyorkcity.blogspot.com/2009/03/blombergs-latest-firehouse-fire-sale.html

http://nycfa.com/cms/contents/view/6263

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02032009/postopinion/letters/bloomys_budget_botch__why_sock_taxpayers_153319.ht m

From the UFA website:

Uniformed Firefighters Association President Steve Cassidy March 20 warned that if Fire Department budget cuts are enacted it will cost Mayor Bloomberg the support of the largest FDNY union.

Standing with other department union leaders at City Hall before a preliminary budget hearing, Mr. Cassidy protested Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta's plan to close 16 fire companies and discontinue 30 ambulance tours in order to reduce its budget, saying that cuts could be made without sacrificing fire and medical response.

"If you close firehouses you lose the support of the UFA, you absolutely will lose the support of all UFA members and every family member of every UFA member who lives in the City of New York," Mr. Cassidy said.

As I said before, it's unacceptable to spend a penny of public funds on this project if lack of City funds results in the loss of a single firefighter, policeman or teacher.

As for the rest of your post: what can I say? Your damned team won the World Series: be gracious in victory.

So:

Learn how to do a Google search, stop being wrong, stop being a troll, and act like a grown man which presumably you are, since most communities don't let children serve as volunteer firemen.

[metsforever7515]

Firefighters are not being terminated in New York City.

As a volunteer f/f in Pennsylvania, I usually perk up whenever I hear the fire service mentioned.

In this case, it was the dopey Mongoose using FDNY's men losing jobs as a battle cry to throw more hate at Wilpon. (Whatever, as long as the Mets keep choking, I could care what he does.)

But the fact of the matter is that as of December 2008 (the newest article I could find on the matter), ZERO FDNY firemen were being laid off.

Four houses were being closed for overnight hours only (between 6pm and 9am), and these are in areas where there apparatus overlaps other houses.

FDNY has slowed their hiring, and reduced their overall training budget and have shortened fire school from 23 to 18 weeks. But, the fact is you learn to fight fire by fighting fire. You can pop your cherry and control the fear in the controlled elements of fire school, but you learn the job on the job.

So, that part at least, isn't true.

Now, I also think that having CitiField in an attractive area with places for people to spend money, and put more cash back into the city (what's sales tax in NYC, like 40%?) is good for New York. And I hate to admit that, because the entire city could implode, fall into the ocean and never be seen again, and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.

Mongoose, you just need to release your hate. Your rampant crying and whinging won't change it. Go and enjoy the new stadium, and when the new stores are build, enjoy those, too. Not because you fell in love with your owner, but because your a baseball fan, in New York City, and that's what baseball fans in NYC do.

And just be glad that thanks to the Phillies, you won't have to worry about buying any playoff tickets this year, either.

If you didn't take those two shots at the Mets I would have given you a few clapping smileys. :evil

[Mongoose]

If you didn't take those two shots at the Mets I would have given you a few clapping smileys. :evil

What for? As I showed in the post above yours, the guy is just flat wrong. Are you in the habit of giving people clapping smilies for being wrong if their wrongness makes you feel more secure in your own wrongness?

[WillMissShea]

If you didn't take those two shots at the Mets I would have given you a few clapping smileys. :evil

I was thinking the same thing. And you didn't even mentioned NYC imploding and falling into the ocean. The guy makes some valid points then reverts back to being a typical Phillie fan.

[Mongoose]

You know, it's a shame: some uninformed troll leaves a post full of untruths about the degree to which we're all being left unprotected by cuts to essential services, and all some people seem to notice or care about is that the guy's a "typical Phillies fan".

:shrug::banghead:

[kramtelak]

In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

-- Martin Niemoller
Gary not only are you the best photog but you are the man for remembering that old saying. I couldn't remember it so I kinda paraphrased it.

[BiggieSmalls]

Gary not only are you the best photog but you are the man for remembering that old saying. I couldn't remember it so I kinda paraphrased it.

I hope no one is going to compare what is going on here to a Hitler controlled Germany in WW2.

That would be really sad and very offensive.

[kramtelak]

I hope no one is going to compare what is going on here to a Hitler controlled Germany in WW2.

That would be really sad and very offensive.
Come on Big it has nothing to do with Hitler it only means if you keep quiet now when will you speak up? will you speak up before it's too late? That's it.

[BiggieSmalls]

Come on Big it has nothing to do with Hitler it only means if you keep quiet now when will you speak up? will you speak up before it's too late? That's it.

NO.. the quote means if you dont speak up then you could be next.. which is fear mongering at its worst.

Especially when wrapped in a quote like that.

No offense taken or meant.. just calling it like I see it.

[pauliedanger]

Okay, sorry to Mets fans for taking a little shot. And I really genuinely don't enjoy New York City. I don't like big cities. Could have stated that a little friendlier, though.

But Mongoose, they do let children serve in the volunteer fire service as cadets, explorers or juniors.

So you are actually wrong on that, too.

I don't consider attrition to be job loss. The newest article I found was on rescue1.com and it talked about 18 men being reassigned with several houses being closed and hiring slowed. And the article you quoted only talked about plans, not actual job losses.

Now, lets get on to the real issue here. Your whinging. You are acting like a kid who just had his lunch money stolen. Your yelling at everyone who disagrees with you, you called me a child and a troll, and its just silly.

If your that pissed off about it, move. Find a new team to support and leave the city. Or run for office yourself. But this is 14 pages of a whole lot of "Woe is me" from you.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Please keep this thread about the topic at hand. Individuaal posters are never themselves on topic. Name calling and the like should stay out.

[IPO]

Now, lets get on to the real issue here. Your whinging. You are acting like a kid who just had his lunch money stolen. Your yelling at everyone who disagrees with you, you called me a child and a troll, and its just silly.

If your that pissed off about it, move. Find a new team to support and leave the city. Or run for office yourself. But this is 14 pages of a whole lot of "Woe is me" from you.

The woe and the whining is all on Fredo's part, does a day go by he look out his new window and call NYC.

Why should anyone go anywhere but Fredo and his painfully flawed disaster of a brick cookie cutter which has already cost this city billions with the price of his neighborhood dream about another 5 billion plus on our dime? I bet if someone wanted to take your home and livelihood under the guise of eminent domain for a greedy baseball owners childhood dream you would be very vocal about it too.

Even in Philadelphia.

Fredo likes Brooklyn so much take his team and go move there and knock down the brick cookie cutter on the way out. Those people stay just as all of you have the right to stay and work where you are.

Maybe NYC should declare eminent domain against Fredo's cookie cutter, kick them out and just expand the Iron Triangle right onto where that ballpark is now.

[BiggieSmalls]

Interesting Related article in the Daily News

Queens-based JetBlue is seeking new corporate office site, officials confirm

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/queens/2009/04/08/2009-04-08_httpwwwnydailynewscomny_local2009040820090408_q ueensbased_jetblue_is_seeking_new.html

With their current lease expiring in 2012 wouldnt the Iron Triangle make a PERFECT corporate Headquarters for Jet Blue?

Given it's proximity to LGA and JFK and the company's Queens roots I think it would be a perfect match.

Also in the News:

Community Board 7 leaders Kelty and Apelian are making waves on the move of Five businesses to College Point. Actually, they are making waves on ONE business -- Feinstein IronWorks. They have all but approved the move of four businesses including Sambucci Salvage, Met Metals & T Mina Supply.

Those unfamiliar with the players should know Dan Feinstein has been one of the more eloquent proponents for the Willets Point Businesses. I met him at the CPC meeting and can attest he is a stand up guy and potential future politician/community leader. Feinstein runs a highly skilled union shop that is one of -- if not the -- the last fabricators of Iron products in the city. He has agreed to sell his property and move to a location where he can safely triple the size of his business in an environmentally friendly way. Something he COULD NOT do in the Iron Triangle.

That the two nincompoops Kelty and Apelian object to Feinstein moving his business shows them to be shallow vindictive small timers. There is clearly something personal between Feinstein and these two jokers and it is dispicable.

Thankfully the Community Board only has an advisory roll in the process and holds no real authority.

[Mongoose]

Okay, sorry to Mets fans for taking a little shot. And I really genuinely don't enjoy New York City. I don't like big cities. Could have stated that a little friendlier, though.

But Mongoose, they do let children serve in the volunteer fire service as cadets, explorers or juniors.

So you are actually wrong on that, too.

I don't consider attrition to be job loss. The newest article I found was on rescue1.com and it talked about 18 men being reassigned with several houses being closed and hiring slowed. And the article you quoted only talked about plans, not actual job losses.

Now, lets get on to the real issue here. Your whinging. You are acting like a kid who just had his lunch money stolen. Your yelling at everyone who disagrees with you, you called me a child and a troll, and its just silly.

If your that pissed off about it, move. Find a new team to support and leave the city. Or run for office yourself. But this is 14 pages of a whole lot of "Woe is me" from you.

First off... You were wrong.

You posted without even bothering to do a simple Google search. If you had you'd know NYC has already lost firehouses permanently and as UFA President Steve Cassidy said a couple of weeks ago, Nick Scoppetta's planning to close another 16 fire companies and discontinue 30 ambulance tours.

Most ordinary citizens would consider a decrease in firefighters to be a net decrease in firefighters... And that's exactly what we're looking at.

The real issue here is: Do we really need a $3+ billion entertainment complex at the far end of Queens when essential life and death services are being cut?

I think most New Yorkers would say "no".

[Ralf]

I wonder, when the Willets Point project is all complete, and the people of Queens have a vibrant, clean, new neighborhood with a state of the art school and green parks, will IPO and Mongoose be calling for its demolition and the rebuilding of the chop shops?....

I'm guessing yes...

[IPO]

Those unfamiliar with the players should know Dan Feinstein has been one of the more eloquent proponents for the Willets Point Businesses. I met him at the CPC meeting and can attest he is a stand up guy and potential future politician/community leader. Feinstein runs a highly skilled union shop that is one of -- if not the -- the last fabricators of Iron products in the city. He has agreed to sell his property and move to a location where he can safely triple the size of his business in an environmentally friendly way. Something he COULD NOT do in the Iron Triangle.

That the two nincompoops Kelty and Apelian object to Feinstein moving his business shows them to be shallow vindictive small timers. There is clearly something personal between Feinstein and these two jokers and it is dispicable.

For days you are calling all of these businesses illegal, toxic with unstable buildings and should be run out of town on a rail for Fredo's Neighborhood.

Now you praise one of them after he sells out but a year ago that same Dan Feinstein put all the blame on NYC and wrote practically everything Mongoose has been telling you for days complete with taxpayer burden.

http://www.loge13.com/2008/04/willets_point_protest_on_openi.php

"If the City provided the infrastructure and services that we are entitled to and in fact, are paying for, the area would be revitalized," said Dan Feinstein, President of Feinstein Iron Works, Inc., a member of WPIRA. The estimated cost of redeveloping the area is upwards of three billion dollars. That estimate is expected to skyrocket given the credit crisis and increasing construction costs. "Our schools and emergency first responders are facing more budget cuts and the Mayor wants to hand a blank check of New York City's hard earned taxpayers dollars to a private developer?" said Feinstein. That is outrageous, unacceptable and we're not going to stand for it."

The Willets Point Industry and Realty Association (WPIRA) is dedicated to the development, improvement and growth of the Willets Point area by the businesses that reside there, and not by development schemes in which eminent domain is used to forcibly evict and raze those businesses.

Even the guy your praising now because he sold out to Fredo said your completely wrong on all counts.
Mongoose just completely proved he has been correct and you dead wrong on everything, I cannot improve on that, Mongoose even had the 3billion figure spot on.
You just lost huge.

[IPO]

I wonder, when the Willets Point project is all complete, and the people of Queens have a vibrant, clean, new neighborhood with a state of the art school and green parks, will IPO and Mongoose be calling for its demolition and the rebuilding of the chop shops?....

I'm guessing yes...

I wonder if Fredo did not bully NYC into building him a ballpark on their doorstep if you would care one bit after 45 years of not noticing.

I'm guessing no and history is all on my side.

[Ralf]

I wonder if Fredo did not bully NYC into building him a ballpark on their doorstep if you would care one bit after 45 years of not noticing.

I'm guessing no and history is all on my side.

I've been going to Shea for 25 years and there hasn't been 1 game I haven't noticed those hideous, illegal chops shops across the street.

[metfan13]

Please keep this thread about the topic at hand. Individuaal posters are never themselves on topic. Name calling and the like should stay out.


An end to name calling of all sorts would be nice. Calling Mets owners insulting, stupid names, or worse making unsubstantiated claims that they are 'criminals' would also be appreciated. Might help to raise the level of discussion a bit.

[BiggieSmalls]

I praised Feinstein for being an eloquent, outspoken voice for the businesses. Never said he was right on all counts. Just well spoken. And he has seen the light of the situation and will be relocating somewhere that he can EXPAND his business in a clean, safe way. I commend him for that.

IPO SAYS:
For days you are calling all of these businesses illegal, toxic with unstable buildings and should be run out of town

no.. never said ALL of them. the majority.. i'd say conservatively 80% in the Iron Triangle and probable 98% below 127th street.

[IPO]

I've been going to Shea for 25 years and there hasn't been 1 game I haven't noticed those hideous, illegal chops shops across the street.

I don't understand your problem anymore being that you claim to be in the minority for over 25 years? You cannot even see them when your inside Fredo's enclosed house of schemes with his plastic obstructed view stair cases/scoreboards and entirely enclosed outfield.

Is that ten minute walk from parking lots or the subway on the other side of the park 81 days a year that much of a problem for you that someone's life and living has to be taken from them at the cost of billions of dollars?

Ralf, I'll make you a deal, just write I only care about my Mets and what's best for my baseball team and I won't respond to you anymore and you extend me the same courtesy in this thread.

People can disagree?
Ok?

[IPO]

I praised Feinstein for being an eloquent, outspoken voice for the businesses. Never said he was right on all counts.

Feinstein said you were wrong on all counts and said everything Mongoose claimed here.

[BiggieSmalls]

for the record I found my post on the topic.. All numbers are estimates of course.. AGAIN .. I never said ALL The businesses were lawbreakers


As to "residents" there is just ONE. in a non conforming illegal apartment.
.......

85% of the structures -- and 99 % in phase one -- are tin shacks that are
1. not up to building codes
2. do not have valid certificates of occupancy,
3. dont have any regard for environmental practices
4. and are fire traps.

[IPO]

An end to name calling of all sorts would be nice. Calling Mets owners insulting, stupid names, or worse making unsubstantiated claims that they are 'criminals' would also be appreciated. Might help to raise the level of discussion a bit.

There is nothing in the BF Rules that say we cannot insult the owners of baseball teams or you would have virtually no members. For now just attempt to stop the name calling of other members at BF in the name of defending the baseball owners who teams you are fans of would raise the level of discussion.

[BiggieSmalls]

Feinstein said you were wrong on all counts and said everything Mongoose claimed here.
"Our schools and emergency first responders are facing more budget cuts and the Mayor wants to hand a blank check of New York City's hard earned taxpayers dollars to a private developer?" said Feinstein. That is outrageous, unacceptable and we're not going to stand for it."


For the record, All but TWO members of Feinsteins WPIRA have accepted NYC deals, and are NOT standing up for it anymore. I Guess it wasnt so "outrageous and unacceptable" now htat they have received an price they can "accept"

[BiggieSmalls]

There is nothing in the BF Rules that say we cannot insult the owners of baseball teams or you would have virtually no members. For now just attempt to stop the name calling of other members at BF in the name of defending the baseball owners who teams you are fans of would raise the level of discussion.


There is a difference between insulting and making criminal allegations which , were you not anonymous, would likely result in a civil libel lawsuit.

My last words on that.

[IPO]

said Feinstein. That is outrageous, unacceptable and we're not going to stand for it."


For the record, All but TWO members of Feinsteins WPIRA have accepted NYC deals, and are NOT standing up for it anymore. I Guess it wasnt so "outrageous and unacceptable" now htat they have received an price they can "accept"

Or an offer he could not refuse to what you claim are illegal businesses that are not entitled to anything.

The fact he and others have been paid means they were never illegal and those claims are completely false.

[trucky941]

Has anyone else been harrased by the guys working at the shops to come into there shop to get your car fixed while waiting in traffic leaving the game? meanwhile there is absolulty nothing wrong with your car.

I have!

[IPO]

There is a difference between insulting and making criminal allegations which , were you not anonymous, would likely result in a civil libel lawsuit.

My last words on that.

As opposed to your other words here that if you were not anonymous would absolutely result a a civil libel lawsuit and a lot more and as Mongoose correctly points out you have been all over several forums with the same message.



Battle lines have been drawn.

Mets fans are mobilized to clean up the east side of 126th street.

Who wants that hot mess less than 30 feet from our entrance.

Unacceptable.

DoT and NYPD are rolling based on 311 calls. I would encourage all to make calls regarding the illegal parking on the sidewalk. The more that call the faster things get done.

Take back our street!!!

Even if you are against Eminent Domain for the entire site you can not be happy with the lawlessness on the east side of 126th street. This needs to be recified and WILL BE

Between now and opening day call 311 (212-NEW-YORK) and report the parking situation as an eyewitness. 110th Precinct will send rollers and tow trucks to stop this nonsense.

Step up and protect our new stadium.

[BiggieSmalls]

Has anyone else been harrased by the guys working at the shops to come into there shop to get your car fixed while waiting in traffic leaving the game? meanwhile there is absolulty nothing wrong with your car.

I have!

Of course.. I mentioned harassment of all types along 126th street early on in the thread.

welcome aboard.

[BiggieSmalls]

As opposed ton your other words here that if you were not anonymous would absolutely result a a civil libel lawsuit and a lot more.

you are truly touched.

My call to action against obvious criminal activity eyewitnessed very day is not even comparable to some of the things you have accused the Wilpons of. And Im not a great Wilpon Supporter.

You just continue to ostracize yourself with your insane comments. Keep it up. It adds no credibility to the anti-development side of the debate.

[BiggieSmalls]

Or an offer he could not refuse to what you claim are illegal businesses that are not entitled to anything.

The fact he and others have been paid means they were never illegal and those claims are completely false.

re read my post #364 linked below

http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1487842&postcount=364

[trucky941]

We want our city not only Manhattan but the whole city to be a hot spot where people could kick back after a long days work and enjoy something nice. having a nice place to go before and after the games would be great. instead of those guys in the iron triangle owning run down shacks, why dont they embrass the change and open up a nice bar / restaurant. instead of looking at this as a bad thing, turn it into a positive and a better opportunity. They would have a nice respectable place and make a hell of a lot more money then what they make now.

[IPO]

We want our city not only Manhattan but the whole city to be a hot spot where people could kick back after a long days work and enjoy something nice. having a nice place to go before and after the games would be great. instead of those guys in the iron triangle owning run down shacks, why dont they embrass the change and open up a nice bar / restaurant. instead of looking at this as a bad thing, turn it into a positive and a better opportunity. They would have a nice respectable place and make a hell of a lot more money then what they make now.

And if someone said your home or life-long business and liveliehood should go for the same reasons your reaction would be?

[trucky941]

Things change. First there is one known resident in that area. If that is someones home then they really shouldn't be living there in the first place. Second its a great chance to make more money then what you are making now. If I had the money i would be the first person to open up a nice bar right across the street from the stadium. I would make a killing. Maybe the city should offer a chance for the people who own places there to re think their buisnesses and use this to their advantage. Trust me if these guys had an opportunity to knock down their buildings and open up a nice restaurant they would in a second.

[IPO]

you are truly touched.

My call to action against obvious criminal activity eyewitnessed very day is not even comparable to some of the things you have accused the Wilpons of. And Im not a great Wilpon Supporter.

You just continue to ostracize yourself with your insane comments. Keep it up. It adds no credibility to the anti-development side of the debate.

Note-I'm going to let the mods deal with your comments about me and follow the rules here.

I have produced articles in this thread where the Wilpon's have made plans for other people's property since as far back as 1994 they have no legal right to. I have produced articles where Wilpon has told representatives of that community those businesses have to go after claims he has co-existed with them for forty years and will continue to.

You have made claims these businesses are illegal without any proof whatsoever as NYC attempts to buy them off proving they are not illegal and you completely wrong.

[trucky941]

Take the money they are planning on re-doing the area with and give these people to have a better life and build a nice well established buisness instead of working in run down auto repair shops. there are too many of them down there. i dont even know how they make money and compete with one another. they should come together and make a nice place where the people who come to the area would enjoy it. i dont know one single person who needs to get their car fixed bring it down the willets point to get fixed.

[IPO]

Things change. First there is one known resident in that area. If that is someones home then they really shouldn't be living there in the first place. Second its a great chance to make more money then what you are making now. If I had the money i would be the first person to open up a nice bar right across the street from the stadium. I would make a killing. Maybe the city should offer a chance for the people who own places there to re think their buisnesses and use this to their advantage. Trust me if these guys had an opportunity to knock down their buildings and open up a nice restaurant they would in a second.

You did not answer my question, if someone said your home or life-long business and liveliehood should go for the same reasons your reaction would be?

[BiggieSmalls]

Take the money they are planning on re-doing the area with and give these people to have a better life and build a nice well established buisness instead of working in run down auto repair shops. there are too many of them down there. i dont even know how they make money and compete with one another. they should come together and make a nice place where the people who come to the area would enjoy it. i dont know one single person who needs to get their car fixed bring it down the willets point to get fixed.



That is all everyone is advocating. MoVe the businesses to someplace in an Industrial Zone (Willets Point is NOT) and build something environmentally safe where they can conduct their business. No one is saying to shuit them down and throw them all on the streets to be ushers at Shea or pan handlers.

I could see something similar to What they have done in Hunts Point for the Food companies. I think the lower third of Flushing Airport (near the highway) would be perfect. They could use the rest for ballfields, soft recreation and make everyone happy.

Being that close to the highway (behind the NY Times Printing Plant) would not affect traffic for the larger College Point community.

[metfan13]

As opposed to your other words here that if you were not anonymous would absolutely result a a civil libel lawsuit and a lot more and as Mongoose correctly points out you have been all over several forums with the same message.


But what's libelous about anything he says? He asks people (whether it's just here or 20 places) to request police enforcement of laws.

[BiggieSmalls]

You did not answer my question, if someone said your home or life-long business and liveliehood should go for the same reasons your reaction would be?

I'd say GREAT IDEA!!

How do we go into business together?

LETS MAKE A DEAL

[trucky941]

You did not answer my question, if someone said your home or life-long business and liveliehood should go for the same reasons your reaction would be?

I would be mad. no doubt about it but these people have to think outside the box. well maybe an auto repair shop is not the best buisness to have right here. maybe use this to my advantage and do something else. there is a lot of money to be made there.. these people have the best pieces of realestate over there. use it the right way and these people dont have to leave and they can make tons more money and more people would come down there with open arms. just like people always say. location, location, location. if it dont fit, try something else. im not for these people to get kicked out at all.. im not for that.

[trucky941]

I'd say GREAT IDEA!!

How do we go into business together?

LETS MAKE A DEAL

well said.. thats about the lines of what i would say.

[BiggieSmalls]

Look what happened to Waveland Avenue in Chicago.

Formerly a working class neighborhood with brownstone buildings ..

It is now surrounded by restaurants and entertainment options and the former home owners all made out real well.

[trucky941]

These people just dont realize what kind of deal they can make. I would make a deal with the city and say this. " ill sell you my property here but in return i will take the money you give me and open a new buisness in a building that you build. That would be awesome if i was one of those owners. they wouldn't have to make that place their home. they would be able to go buy a nice place somewhere else in a nicer area.

[BiggieSmalls]

These people just dont realize what kind of deal they can make. I would make a deal with the city and say this. " ill sell you my property here but in return i will take the money you give me and open a new buisness in a building that you build. That would be awesome if i was one of those owners. they wouldn't have to make that place their home. they would be able to go buy a nice place somewhere else in a nicer area.

The Problem is Trucky -- I think they are all getting bad advice from these Eminent Domain lawyers who want to make a name for themselves at the landowners expense.

Of course they could cut some kind of deal where they participate on some level.. Look at what the City did for Feinstein. He was a blustery vocal opponent and now he is going to get three times as much land as he has now and can grow his business. Tully has a 10 year moratorium and will sell directly to the phase two developer.

People like Bono, a third generation business owner and not a very bright person, is really sticking his head in the sand and being militant about this whole thing. It wont stop anything but will end up eating all his money that three generations have built up.

Just cut a deal and move on with your life.. It is property. Not your first born.

[IPO]

I would be mad. no doubt about it but these people have to think outside the box.

Why should anyone think outside the box if you would be mad and I would guess scared to death after you built a life there is being threatened.

Those people did nothing wrong or illegal, just like everyone they work to support their families and survive, they don't want it threatened for something completely unnecessary under the phony guise of eminent domain.

All they want is to be left alone, just like you wherever you work or make a living.

[trucky941]

i dont agree with you. i bet you anything in the world that if these people were getting the right advise from the right people and in the end they can own a beautiful business instead of a run down shack they would jump at it in a hearbeat. There is a reason why these places are falling apart. its because they do not make enough business to fix the place up. thats where you have to think "outside the box" and think of a way to make this work for you. trust me if anyone of us here owned on of those shops and had this chance we would jump all over it. who wouldn't want a nice new shop where you dont have to worrie about if the roof is going to cave in on you and your family / co-workers.

[IPO]

These people just dont realize what kind of deal they can make. I would make a deal with the city and say this. " ill sell you my property here but in return i will take the money you give me and open a new buisness in a building that you build. That would be awesome if i was one of those owners. they wouldn't have to make that place their home. they would be able to go buy a nice place somewhere else in a nicer area.

I'm afraid life does not work that way unless you expect NYC or the taxpayers to go completely bankrupt for Fredo's Brooklyn neighborhood.

This is more like taking someone who pays $500.00 in a one bedroom apartment for genrations to sell or we'll force you out by cutting water and electricity or by any means necesary and we'll give you 10,000 dollars to go rent a nice place for 2,000 a month so within a year cannot afford the new rent and are in the street.

The draw for many of those businesses is they are a community of auto-repair shops for the most part and a service for millions. Everyone knows you want NYC chinese food you go to Chinatown, you break up all the restaurants in Chinatown and scatter them all over the place only the few loyal to one establishment is going to find them again which means they go out of business on the deal.

Same here, you want auto parts or to junk/fix your car this is a place people think of going first. Fredo's limo breaks down you can bet even he's tempted.

Why did't Fredo just pay in full out of his own pocket for a ballpark in college point where nothing is (or take the land the city owns for towed cars) and build his Brooklyn ballpark and neighborhood.

Oops, all the transportaton has to go his way too which those businesses lose even again on if they relocate to college point which is already mounting resistance.

[trucky941]

I'm afraid life does not work that way unless you expect NYC or the taxpayers to go completely bankrupt for Fredo's Brooklyn neighborhood.

This is more like taking someone who pays $500.00 in a one bedroom apartment for genrations to sell or we'll force you out by cutting water and electricity or by any means necesary and we'll give you 10,000 dollars to go rent a nice place for 2,000 a month so within a year cannot afford the new rent and are in the street.

The draw for many of those businesses is they are a community of auto-repair shops for the most part and a service for millions. Everyone knows you want NYC chinese food you go to Chinatown, you break up all the restaurants in Chinatown and scatter them all over the place only the few loyal to one establishment is going to find them again which means they go out of business on the deal.

Why did't Fredo just pay in full out of his own pocket for a ballpark in college point where nothing is (or take the land the city owns for towed cars) and build his Brooklyn ballpark and neighborhood.

Oops, all the transportaton has to go his way too which those businesses lose even again on if they relocate to college point which is already mounting resistance.


you are just assuming they could not make a deal with the city to benefit them. and why are you worried about using tax payers money.. at this point in the world who cares. we are all screwed anyways. the amount of tax payers money to bail out the big boys in this country is crazy.. why not spend some tax payers money on local businesses too. We will never ever see this country not owe money. never in our life time nor our childrens and so on. might as well make the people who try to get by on their small business try to make ends meat and let the public enjoy it.

[IPO]

i dont agree with you. i bet you anything in the world that if these people were getting the right advise from the right people and in the end they can own a beautiful business instead of a run down shack they would jump at it in a hearbeat. There is a reason why these places are falling apart. its because they do not make enough business to fix the place up. thats where you have to think "outside the box" and think of a way to make this work for you. trust me if anyone of us here owned on of those shops and had this chance we would jump all over it. who wouldn't want a nice new shop where you dont have to worrie about if the roof is going to cave in on you and your family / co-workers.

Fine, just write you would give up your home/business and absolutely take the deal and leave these people out of it. Ok?

Now you are one isolated businesses in the middle of nowhere and your long-time customers may not know where to find you.

[trucky941]

listen im not trying to argue with you or get into a fight over this.. either way its not going to effect my everyday life weather or not they are there today or 20 years from now. i personally dont and would never go over there or even recommend anyone to go over there to get their car fixed. i respect your opinion and thoughts and hope that i recieve that same respect back.

[IPO]

why are you worried about using tax payers money.. at this point in the world who cares. we are all screwed anyways. the amount of tax payers money to bail out the big boys in this country is crazy.. why not spend some tax payers money on local businesses too.

I guess, I care, someone has to.

That's about ten billion dollars, all in the name of Fredo Wilpon brooklyn ballpark and theme park neighborhood while he's spending over 100m on baseball players and going to the city council demanding even more from the public to finance his field of schemes.

Call me what you want but I think any money the government desperately needs to take from desperate people living day to day should be for something absolutely necessary and not this.

[IPO]

listen im not trying to argue with you or get into a fight over this.. either way its not going to effect my everyday life weather or not they are there today or 20 years from now. i personally dont and would never go over there or even recommend anyone to go over there to get their car fixed. i respect your opinion and thoughts and hope that i recieve that same respect back.

Nor am I trying to argue with you or show any disrespect, I'm laying this out for you as if you were these people as you write, that's it.

The fact is this is effecting someone's everyday life right now, where is their respect and the right to have what you have after working for it over generations before Shea was even built?

You said you would be mad about it.

[trucky941]

I guess, I care, someone has to.

That's about ten billion dollars, all in the name of Fredo Wilpon brooklyn ballpark and theme park neighborhood while he's spending over 100m on baseball players and going to the city council demanding even more from the public to finance his field of schemes.

Call me what you want but I think any money the government desperately needs to take from desperate people living day to day should be for something absolutely necessary and not this.

but who will benefit from it? the business owners of those new establishments. who says that people couldn't partner up and open up something else. i understand where you are coming from. why move people when you dont have to. but if it could make a better life for these people why not? honestly let me ask You a question. if you had a choice to work in a cardboard box or a beautiful new building where before you would have about 10 people a day come to your shack or 150 people a night coming to your new place and spending $100 a night. i would take the new place

[trucky941]

Nor am I trying to argue with you or show any disrespect, I'm laying this out for you as if you were these people as you write, that's it.

The fact is this is effecting someone's everyday life right now, where is their respect and the right to have what you have after working for it over generations before Shea was even built?

You said you would be mad about it.

I would be mad but i would also try to be smart about this and make it work to my advantage. especially if they are threatening me with eminent domain.

[IPO]

i understand where you are coming from. why move people when you dont have to. but if it could make a better life for these people why not?

A better life where it's new beginnings are based upon people are mad like you would be and threatened? That don't work and I suspect you know that already. Hell, you got annoyed here just thinking I was insulting you, what you like to take my calls after that if I wanted your home and business?

This is like these old teamster movies where they bully everyone to join or force them out and worse.



honestly let me ask You a question. if you had a choice to work in a cardboard box or a beautiful new building where before you would have about 10 people a day come to your shack or 150 people a night coming to your new place and spending $100 a night. i would take the new place

But that's not the business reality here at all. Those people work in long-time generational businesses which are not cardboard boxes, they are doing well enough they the desperately are fighting to stay and because they are a community do far better together than they ever would if they were broken up. If they relocated all over the place as single entities that 150-10 ratio would be correct in a new location.......with the ten only finding the new location which equals bankruptcy.

How many MLB teams built new ballparks where an entire community had to be displaced as part of the package the expense of billions?

[trucky941]

A better life where it's new beginnings are based upon people are mad like you would be and threatened? That don't work and I suspect you know that already. Hell, you got annoyed here just thinking I was insulting you, what you like to take my calls after that if I wanted your home and business?

This is like these old teamster movies where they bully everyone to join or force them out and worse.



But that's not the business reality here at all. Those people work in long-time generational businesses which are not cardboard boxes, they are doing well enough they the desperately are fighting to stay and because they are a community do far better together than they ever would if they were broken up. If they relocated all over the place as single entities that 150-10 ratio would be correct in a new location.......with the ten only finding the new location which equals bankruptcy.

How many MLB teams built new ballparks where an entire community had to be displaced as part of the package the expense of billions?


I am not sure but I must get back to work here. It was very nice discussing this with you and hope to chat again sometime soon. Have a good night.

[IPO]

I am not sure but I must get back to work here. It was very nice discussing this with you and hope to chat again sometime soon. Have a good night.

Take care.

[BiggieSmalls]

If they relocated all over the place as single entities that 150-10 ratio would be correct in a new location.......with the ten only finding the new location which equals bankruptcy.


No one is suggestng they be "relocated all over the place" From what I read What is being worked on is a plan to relocate them in clusters to an new clean location.

Flushing Airport is a perfect spot not far from where they are today with plenty of land to accommodate ALL the auto shops AND build recreation fields while not affecting traffic.

[IPO]

Frankly BiggieSmalls nothing you write rings true and it's painfully obvious by your conduct here and on countless forms you have a very vested interest.

Mongoose had you nailed perfectly.

http://irontriangletracker.com/2009/01/02/willets-point-tenant-leader-says-no-biz-relocation-until-11/

[Mongoose]

Frankly BiggieSmalls nothing you write rings true and it's painfully obvious by your conduct here and on countless forms you have a very vested interest.

Mongoose had you nailed perfectly.

http://irontriangletracker.com/2009/01/02/willets-point-tenant-leader-says-no-biz-relocation-until-11/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoose

Some species, such as the Indian Mongoose, are popularly used to fight and kill venomous snakes, even King Cobras. They are able to do this because of their agility and cunning, and their thick coat, but typically avoid the cobra and have no particular affinity for consuming its meat.

;)

[BiggieSmalls]

Way to attempt to change the topic. Are we back on that again?

[Mongoose]

Way to attempt to change the topic. Are we back on that again?

This thread is 17 pages long. This subject has already been beaten to death. If you didn't keep kicking it over and over, for your own highly suspect reasons, it would have died a natural and merciful death a long time ago.

[BiggieSmalls]

The issue is actually on going with news every week

I brought new news to the thread in post 354 (now 54 posts ago)

http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1487707&postcount=354

But it was glossed over with Your's and IPOs obfuscation attempts.

it is you two who keep beating the dead horse of the Wilpons being Satan incarnate.

If you are bored with the thread move on.

If you cant stay on topic please refrain from increasing the noise level with your coordinated anti Mets Management posts.

We get it already.. you've made your position crystal clear.

[Atlantic Ave]

If you didn't keep kicking it over and over, for your own highly suspect reasons

In the sake of full disclosure, I think it'd be beneficial to know everyone's stakes in this project. While Biggie continually reads like a pro-development press release, IPO has on more than one occasion referred to Willets Point biz owners as "we" and seems to also have access to information that is outside of the realm of common knowledge.

[GordonGecko]

In the sake of full disclosure, I think it'd be beneficial to know everyone's stakes in this project. While Biggie continually reads like a pro-development press release, IPO has on more than one occasion referred to Willets Point biz owners as "we" and seems to also have access to information that is outside of the realm of common knowledge.

Great point, sounds like self-service right there

[BiggieSmalls]

In the sake of full disclosure, I think it'd be beneficial to know everyone's stakes in this project.


Ive said before and will put this out one more time ..

I have no economic stake in the development.

I Dont work for any of the parties involved or on the periphery.

[AutographCollector]

Let's stick with the topic of this thread please.

If it does not stay on topic, it will be closed. This is getting out of hand.

[jalbright]

I'd like to emphasize that the topic in this site has to be baseball. This discussion has veered well away from baseball, and it's high time to bring it back to that topic, or be closed. Remember, site rules indicate this entire site is "baseball only". Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.

[metsforever7515]

I'd like to emphasize that the topic in this site has to be baseball. This discussion has veered well away from baseball, and it's high time to bring it back to that topic, or be closed. Remember, site rules indicate this entire site is "baseball only". Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.

I created this thread because we would often talk about this plan in the Citi Field threads. I did not know it would veer this far from baseball.

[BiggieSmalls]

Unfortunately I called it as veering off topic into a political debate after the third day and 74th post.

There SHOULD be debate about the next great baseball neighborhood in New York City.

Other Cities that have created meaningful baseball neighborhoods:

Chicago --> Waveland Avenue
San Diego --> Gas lamp district
Boston ---> Yawkey Way
San Fan --> Mission Bay

here is a great article on teh changes that took place in San Fran Mission Bay Neighborhood in the few years since they opned the ball park

http://www.mercurynews.com/giantsheadlines/ci_6326258

And dont forget Pittsburghs downtown revitalization around their new ball park

Mets fans shoul dbe a force for change in the area around the ball park to bring the next great baseball neighborhood to America's past time.

[Mongoose]

Unfortunately I called it as veering off topic into a political debate after the third day and 74th post.

There SHOULD be debate about the next great baseball neighborhood in New York City.

Other Cities that have created meaningful baseball neighborhoods:

Chicago --> Waveland Avenue
San Diego --> Gas lamp district
Boston ---> Yawkey Way
San Fan --> Mission Bay

here is a great article on teh changes that took place in San Fran Mission Bay Neighborhood in the few years since they opned the ball park

http://www.mercurynews.com/giantsheadlines/ci_6326258

And dont forget Pittsburghs downtown revitalization around their new ball park

Wait a minute: you're the one who keeps telling us that this project has nothing to do with the Mets or Wilpon!

You've been touting the basketball/hockey arena, the stores, the housing, the parks, etc. None of these things have anything to do with baseball.

This whole thread has nothing to do with baseball!!!

187 BiggieSmalls posts on Baseball Fever and counting and still not a one on baseball!

You remind me of Doctor Frankenstein, trying to reanimate this dead thread with electrodes, but reanimated or not, this monster does not belong on a baseball forum.

Why not take it back to Iron Triangle Tracker, or another of the many websites you frequent devoted to this subject? You seem to know where they are:

http://irontriangletracker.com/2009/...away-ferreras/

http://developwilletspoint.com/2008/...sq-park-today/

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/...crap-from.html

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/dove...USSU2EORH5MSGK

https://www.nydailynews.com/forums/t...390&tstart=760

[BiggieSmalls]

THe bseball Fever site is baseball related.

We are hear to discuss how creating the next great baseball neighborhood is a GREAT THING.. you and IPO want to make this a political debate

Let's not forget about the revitalizations around Coors Field in Denver, Jacobs Field in Cleveland and Camden Yards in Baltimore.

Great opinion piece all should read
New ballparks contribute to revitalization of cities.
http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejournals/article/87081458.html

[mandrake]

This is not just Mongoose and IPO who went off topic. I also did, and above all, so did Biggiesmalls as soon as he started having people call 311 to get everybody towed from 126th Street. I think it is time to just close this thread since it really can't be about baseball.

[BiggieSmalls]

If you are not interested in a civil discussion on how to make the neighborhood around Citi Field the next great baseball neighborhood please move on

take your political conversations to a more appropriate place.
There have been at least TEN great new baseball neighborhoods developed over the past 10 years.

Mets fans should be informed and mobilized to band together to create a great baseball neighborhood out of the junk yards that is the Iron triangle.

Mobilizing baseball fans to do what they can to support that effort sounds on topic to me.

[Mongoose]

This is not just Mongoose and IPO who went off topic. I also did, and above all, so did Biggiesmalls as soon as he started having people call 311 to get everybody towed from 126th Street. I think it is time to just close this thread since it really can't be about baseball.

I think debating Biggie is more fun than hammering a bop bag clown, but I'm the ultimate loser - it distracts me from work, while Biggie is on the meter the whole time. Because of this he's smarter than the rest of us.

I'm in complete agreement with you Mandrake; this was never a baseball thread anyway.

Hear hear!

[IPO]

This is the topic:
Iron Triangle/Willets Point Demolition/Redevelopment

I did not start the topic.

It's not a baseball-only topic and if anything it's more a non-baseball topic. If the mods don't want such topics they should have quickly closed it and not allow it in the first place but it is somewhat related to a baseball stadium's construction.

It's also not a topic where we must post under the guise of Fredo's Brooklyn Dodger neighborhood IS being built get on board or get out premise. As far as I'm concerned that area will NEVER be a baseball area and those people will beat down Fredo and eventually force him to continue to live with generational businesses who were there long before him.

He does not like that he should demolish his ballpark, pay back the taxpayers for every penny of this disaster we paid for, go away and take Jeff-R-Us with him.

[Mongoose]

This is the topic:
Iron Triangle/Willets Point Demolition/Redevelopment

I did not start the topic.

It's not a baseball-only topic and if anything it's more a non-baseball topic. If the mods don't want such topics they should have quickly closed it and not allow it in the first place but it is somewhat related to a baseball stadium's construction.

It's also not a topic where we must post under the guise of Fredo's Brooklyn Dodger neighborhood IS being built get on board or get out premise. As far as I'm concerned that area will NEVER be a baseball area and those people will beat down Fredo and eventually force him to continue to live with generational businesses who were there long before him.

He does not like that he should demolish his ballpark, pay back the taxpayers for every penny of this disaster we paid for, go away and take Jeff-R-Us with him.

Just let this topic die. Assuming Biggie is compensated on a per post basis, it will hit him in his wallet, which would be the best revenge. Besides, in no way is this a baseball thread, other than the relationship of the Mets' greedy owner to the whole sorry affair.

But after thinking about it for a moment...

If the posts are related to Wilpon, his role in this, and how he wants eminent domain declared on his neighbors, then I guess it must be O.K. to post on this subject. :D

So... O.K., IPO: knock yourself out!

As long as you keep the conversation confined to Wilpon's role in this.

:laugh

[IPO]

Unfortunately I called it as veering off topic into a political debate after the third day and 74th post.

There SHOULD be debate about the next great baseball neighborhood in New York City.

This debate should be about WILLETS POINT WHERE GENERATIONAL BUSINESSES THERE BEFORE BASEBALL WITH EVERY LEGAL RIGHT TO STAY FOREVER.



Other Cities that have created meaningful baseball neighborhoods:

Chicago --> Waveland Avenue
San Diego --> Gas lamp district
Boston ---> Yawkey Way
San Fan --> Mission Bay

here is a great article on teh changes that took place in San Fran Mission Bay Neighborhood in the few years since they opned the ball park

http://www.mercurynews.com/giantsheadlines/ci_6326258

And dont forget Pittsburghs downtown revitalization around their new ball park

And how many full communities of generational businesses were run out of their homes and businesses under threats of eminent domain, enormous taxpayer funded buyouts, city services cut, night-time raids or never provided basic services all because someone demanded we pay for him to construct a ballpark on the other side of a parking lot.



Mets fans shoul dbe a force for change in the area around the ball park to bring the next great baseball neighborhood to America's past time.

Mets fans for forty five years hardly gave a first thought to what was beyond the center field bleachers until Fredo bullied his way onto their doorstep and did not want a BASEBALL NEIGHBORHOOD.

This guy wants a baseball neighborhood one day and is lobbying for anyone he can find to relocate there the next just to force them out.

[IPO]

I'd like to emphasize that the topic in this site has to be baseball. This discussion has veered well away from baseball, and it's high time to bring it back to that topic, or be closed. Remember, site rules indicate this entire site is "baseball only". Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.

This is a political topic packed with articles where politicians, lawyers for both sides and city agencies provide all the information, those people are not going to talk about baseball games and BF allowed this topic where a greedy selfish baseball owner put a stadium on their doorstep and is on record he is coming to take their life long businesses from them.

If you don't want the topic by all means close it but if you allow this is where the discussion has to go because it's the only place to go in a redevelopment.

[RoastedPeanut]

Okay.

Listen.

Voice of reason here.

A means to an end.

Blow the damn place to shreds with one massive aerial bomb.

Case closed.

Nobody wins.

Both sides lose.

Then make a park like it should have been from the world's fair.

The end.

[IPO]

if the posts are related to wilpon, his role in this, and how he wants eminent domain declared on his neighbors, then i guess it must be o.k. To post on this subject. :d

so... O.k., ipo: Knock yourself out!

As long as you keep the conversation confined to wilpon's role in this.

:laugh

and you know i will have fun with that. LOL

[BiggieSmalls]

This guy wants a baseball neighborhood one day and is lobbying for anyone he can find to relocate there the next just to force them out.


A vibrant 24 hours a day / 365 days a year baseball neighborhood is not just bars and restaurants. It is anchor tenants and attractions that bring people to an area and generate the type of economic growth that other Baseball neighborhoods have experienced.

We are talking about hotels, commercial space, entertainment options, residential and public spaces. These are the things that have flourished around the baseball parks in the posts I linked to above.

Having a baseball stadium on the border of a junk yard district is a waste of precious resources and does not generate the type of economic development that we are talking about.

Watching the Mets / Reds game the announcers are talking about the econmic growth that has happened around the Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati.

The neighborhood around GAB -- and others linked above -- has become not only a great tourist attraction but a shining star in the redevelopment of the City of Cincinnati

This is what Mets fans are supporting in their comments in this thread which is unfortunately being drowned out by IPO and Mongooses constant diatribe on the Wilpons.

[IPO]

A vibrant 24 hours a day / 365 days a year baseball neighborhood is not just bars and restaurants. It is anchor tenants and attractions that bring people to an area and generate the type of economic growth that other Baseball neighborhoods have experienced.


It's not a baseball neighbhood, it's never going to be a baseball neighborhood, it belongs to other businesses there before Shea who are actually there and working year round.

That means those things you want don't go there, not in the past, present or future.



Having a baseball stadium on the border of a junk yard district is a waste of precious resources and does not generate the type of economic development that we are talking about.

Then why did dumb dumb Fredo who can't even built a ballpark with upper deck portals or get the scoreboards right ask the taxpayers to build him a ballpark on their doorstep when he can go find some desolate area in College Point build and pay for his land, Brooklyn neighbood and ballpark and not displace anyone all out of his pocket?

Can you imagine NYC reaction if Fredo ordered out the police impound in Whitestone or the DMV (which is just like Iron Triangle if not worse) after he built a ballpark there?



Watching the Mets / Reds game the announcers are talking about the econmic growth that has happened around the Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati.

And guess what, it got built without drying up and paving over the River it sits next to to build the Reds their own neighborhood, no one builds a ballpark and then has the audacity to try and kick out an entire neighborhood or generational businesses. And remember those announcers are paid SNY employees who is owned by......drumrolll.....FREDO WILPON.

I think the only words they are alllowed to say about Citified is GREAT...GREAT..GREAT or they will get the 3am Willie Randolph treatment East or West coast by Fredo and Jeff-R-Us.

It's not the same, never will be.



This is what Mets fans are supporting in their comments in this thread which is unfortunately being drowned out by IPO and Mongooses constant diatribe on the Wilpons.

No one knows what Mets fans support but guess what, Met fans don't get a say what happens, a lot of Met fans PREFER SHEA THE ONLY REAL HOME OF THE METS and think Fredo's Brooklyn Dodger ballpark is a disgrace and a tribute to not the Mets but his favorite team growing up. I think it's a lower capacity, brick cookie cutter flawed junkpile with more obstructed view seats than Shea that has to go ASAP.

[Atlantic Ave]

Dear IPO:


In the sake of full disclosure, I think it'd be beneficial to know everyone's stakes in this project. While Biggie continually reads like a pro-development press release, IPO has on more than one occasion referred to Willets Point biz owners as "we" and seems to also have access to information that is outside of the realm of common knowledge.

Thx!

[metfan13]

I'm a Mets fan. i don't think Citi is a disgrace and I think Shea was past its time.

Neighborhoods around other newer parks weren't "baseball neighborhoods" (whatever that means) when the parks were built. The cities cleaned up the areas and encouraged newer businesses and housing to be part of a neighborhood renewal. Same can happen at Willets Point.

[Ralf]

Dear IPO:

Thx!

I'm still waiting for Mongoose to call for full disclosure on IPO. It should be abundantly clear now that IPO is a shill for the businesses. Its possible he's employed by them to come to these forums and argue against the Wilpons and NYC. He's probably using the tag IPO and WEB to hide google searches against himself.

The guy has not made a single baseball related post on this forum.

[IPO]

Dear IPO:
Thx!

Atlantic AVE what side are you on besides what's best for you on that ten minute walk from your car into Fredo's Ebbets Field because you don't like the view?

Fredo's playing you big time, this was all about building that ballpark and getting the Met fans on his side to drive those people out. It's a bully campaign, nothing more or less.

I have no personal gain or stake in anything other than those people being left alone for the same reason you should be allowed to live and work where you have built your life and not live in fear for something as worthless as a baseball game 81 days a year as bullies try and force you out.

I would think everyone would be on that side.

[IPO]

I'm a Mets fan. i don't think Citi is a disgrace and I think Shea was past its time.

Neighborhoods around other newer parks weren't "baseball neighborhoods" (whatever that means) when the parks were built. The cities cleaned up the areas and encouraged newer businesses and housing to be part of a neighborhood renewal. Same can happen at Willets Point.

What neighborhoods or massively industrial area's are you talking about where a full community of established businesses for generations were bullied out of existence?

I don't want to pop your bubble here but only Fredo and the Mets ordered a community of people out after we paid so he could construct on NYC's Shea Stadium parking lot.

[metfan13]

What neighborhoods or massively industrial area's are you talking about where a full community of established businesses for generations were bullied out of existence?

I don't want to pop your bubble here but only Fredo and the Mets ordered a community of people out after we paid so he could construct on NYC's Shea Stadium parking lot.

Fred Wilpon ordered then out?

Did he stand on 126th ans shout "Begone you foul polluters!"

Didn't know Fred Wilpon held the power of eminent domain.

[BiggieSmalls]

It's not a baseball neighbhood, it's never going to be a baseball neighborhood, it belongs to other businesses there before Shea who are actually there and working year round.

That means those things you want don't go there, not in the past, present or future.

No one knows what Mets fans support but guess what, Met fans don't get a say what happens, a lot of Met fans PREFER SHEA THE ONLY REAL HOME OF THE METS and think Fredo's Brooklyn Dodger ballpark is a disgrace and a tribute to not the Mets but his favorite team growing up. I think it's a lower capacity, brick cookie cutter flawed junkpile with more obstructed view seats than Shea that has to go ASAP.





That is a pretty angry, irrational statement. Other areas in other cities were just as bad off before ball parks were built there and revitalized the neighborhood.

What this thread is here to do is mobilize Mets fans to think bigger than just arriving to the stadium on the subway, heading to their seats and going home without looking to the right or left.

The response from Mets fans AT GAMES has been overwhelming in their support of seeing something better when they walk in the Bullpen entrance or gaze over the center field pavilion.

Your hatred of the the Mets Management is bordering on pathological. You should really seek help.

This is not 6th century England where title to land passes from generation to generation. This is America. We have laws. If the government thinks that a better public use can be derived from moving the chop shops and industrial park somewhere else and creating a baseball neighborhood next to CitiField and Flushing Meadow then they are well within their legal right to do so. No one has title to land to do with as they wish ad infinitum.

[IPO]

I'm still waiting for Mongoose to call for full disclosure on IPO. It should be abundantly clear now that IPO is a shill for the businesses. Its possible he's employed by them to come to these forums and argue against the Wilpons and NYC. He's probably using the tag IPO and WEB to hide google searches against himself.

The guy has not made a single baseball related post on this forum.

Maybe your a little late to the game Ralf, but I write the same things about the Convicted Felon x2 in the Bronx and his Taxpayer funded stadium and unlike Biggie do not go to every forum everywhere to push Fredo's agenda.

I know it's inconceivable for some of you who lives by Mets baseball first and everything else get out of the way yesterday but there are actual people out there who just don't like it when lives are effected by bullies who roll over people simply because they are not as rich as them.

What most Met fans have not figured out yet is Fredo bullied you to, he cut capacity by 15,000 and gave you a ballpark without portals and even more obstructed views than Shea and every day crams Dodger Tradition down your throats.

For me somewhere along the way I guess I grew up and discovered hitting a round ball with a wooden stick for entertainment just does not measure up to people's lives being ruined to this degree.

[metfan13]

Maybe your a little late to the game Ralf, but I write the same things about the Convicted Felon x2 in the Bronx and his Taxpayer funded stadium and unlike Biggie do not go to every forum everywhere to push Fredo's agenda.

I know it's inconceivable for some of you who lives by Mets baseball first and everything else get out of the way yesterday but there are actual people out there who just don't like it when lives are effected by bullies who roll over people simply because they are not as rich as them.

What most Met fans have not figured out yet is Fredo bullied you to, he cut capacity by 15,000 and gave you a ballpark without portals and even more obstructed views than Shea and every day crams Dodger Tradition down your throats.

For me somewhere along the way I guess I grew up and discovered hitting a round ball with a wooden stick for entertainment just does not measure up to people's lives being ruined to this degree.

Instead you post all day on a message board accomplishing nothing at all. What's that measure up to?

[Fudbutter]

Probably time to close down this thread. Nothing new in quite some time and myopic views on all sides (including mine) that will not change.

I understand that some folks want the ugliness to go away from their new ballpark, but there is no perfect solution. Move the buinesses and the problems that you solve are simply moved to someone else's neighborhood. Don't do anything and the area festers and never gets cleaned up.

Biggie's claim that other ballparks are creating tourist areas is a nice dream but those are all much smaller cities with much easier access to where tourists stay (BTW: you can add Washington to that list). NYC is much much bigger than these other places and there is significantly more competition for discretionary disposable income. Joe Kansas is not going to take that long a trip on the 7 when there is so much else to do in Manhattan. It's just too far and not enough activity to support food and entertainment businesses. Anyone who invests in such concerns or finances them would be very foolish. That alone makes the huge investment that would be needed to move the businesses a waste of money (told you I am myopic on this too)

I do applaud all of you on your zealousness and conviction. Without that, this world falls apart.

One useful thing that this thread has done for me is that it never occurred to me that this is a great place to get your car fixed cheap. The old car I drive to the stadium could use a wheel, cruise control unit and a windshield. Anyone have a recommened places to take them there?

[IPO]

What this thread is here to do is mobilize Mets fans

That's not what the title says, that's your agenda here and on all these forums, to bully and mobilize people who for generations went to baseball games at Shea and never needed to do anything but go see a game while others nextdoor made their living.



The response from Mets fans AT GAMES has been overwhelming in their support of seeing something better when they walk in the Bullpen entrance or gaze over the center field pavilion.

This is the guy who says he has no stake when he's working the crowds at two exhibition games? Nonsense.



Your hatred of the the Mets Management is bordering on pathological. You should really seek help.

This from someone who runs to every forum supporting their agenda and is at exhibition games rallying support to kick out generational businesses what the heck have those people done to you or the Wilpons is the real question here besides work to support their families like everyone else?

There are a lot of people in this town who think Mets management is a joke who are Met fans. I don't hate them however to fight back against a bully trying to ruin people's lives for their own gain is something we should all rally in support of when it's an injustice such as this.



This is not 6th century England where title to land passes from generation to generation. This is America. We have laws. If the government thinks that a better public use can be derived from moving the chop shops and industrial park somewhere else and creating a baseball neighborhood next to CitiField and Flushing Meadow then they are well within their legal right to do so. No one has title to land to do with as they wish ad infinitum.

For the 10th time, these people have A LEGAL RIGHT to be there, they pay their bills and property taxes which is why NYC for Fredo is trying to spend our money to pay to get rid of them by any means fair or foul.

[IPO]

Instead you post all day on a message board accomplishing nothing at all. What's that measure up to?

Funny but I have about half the post you do here and you did not ask that question of the others in this. What does that measure up to?

[BiggieSmalls]

Probably time to close down this thread. Nothing new in quite some time and myopic views on all sides (including mine) that will not change.

I disagree. The only Myopic view is those consistently railing on the Wilpons.

read post 413
http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1488591&postcount=413



Biggie's claim that other ballparks are creating tourist areas is a nice dream but those are all much smaller cities with much easier access to where tourists stay (BTW: you can add Washington to that list). NYC is much much bigger than these other places and there is significantly more competition for discretionary disposable income. Joe Kansas is not going to take that long a trip on the 7 when there is so much else to do in Manhattan.

THat's the problem. The tourist/commericial/entertainment industry in NYC is TOO Manhattan focused. Willets COULD develop -- over time -- into a CHEAPER alternative that still has access to NYC (going the reverse way) and has things to do in the immediate area. It could ALSO develop into a regional destination that is CHEAPER THAN Manhattan for businesses and groups looking to either establish a commercial presence or organize a gathering. It could ANSO develop int oa great little neighborhood centered around the largest park in New York and a great ball park and the waterfront.

Who says EVERYTHING has to revolve around Manhattan? It only has to be that was if the Economic Development Corp. sends all its efforts developing Manhattan and NOTHING developing the outer boroughs.

It could go in a lot of directions. Where it is now -- a desolate waste land of chop shops and junk yards -- is a compelte waste of a valuable resource and the NYC government agrees with that.

[metfan13]

Funny but I have about half the post you do here and you did not ask that question of the others in this. What does that measure up to?

Maybe that's because I also post about baseball. You know, the REASON for the site?

[IPO]

Probably time to close down this thread. Nothing new in quite some time and myopic views on all sides (including mine) that will not change.

I agree but biggiesmalls is here to mobilize Mets fans (his exact words) and has even told people to call city agencies in this thread.

Metfan13 being that your worried about my time even you know I have never told people in any threat at BF to call anyone or complain to the City of New York or run around at games getting fan reaction.

Biggiesmalls, your lastest personal attack which is against BF rules has been reported to the mods. Obviously the more you lose here the more insults you have to throw at people.

[metfan13]

I agree but biggiesmalls is here to mobilize Mets fans (his exact words) and has even told people to call city agencies in this thread.

Metfan13 being that your worried about my time even you know I have never told people in any threat at BF to call anyone or complain to the City of New York or run around at games getting fan reaction.

Biggiesmalls, your lastest personal attack which is against BF rules has been reported to the mods. Obviously the more you lose here the more insults you have to throw at people.

Unfortunately the mods don't seem to react to notifications.

I don't see what's wrong with Biggie asking people to report illegal activity. You seem to obsess over it though.

[BiggieSmalls]

IPO's goal is clearly to squelch any rational discussion of a baseball neighborhood developing around Citi Field.

IPO is constantly goading users with his irrational statements to "tear down the stadium".

sadly, other users may be right that the best alternative is to just put IPO on ignore and continue the discussion with out the distraction.

[BiggieSmalls]

metfan -- IPO is obsessing over it because it is WORKING.

The FDNY, NYPD, DoB and DEP have mobilized to shut down the illegal businesses next to Citi Field over the past two weeks.

I dont know if it is because you and other like minded Mets fans took 10 minutes of their time to call 311 and complain about what is going on next to OUR ball park.

But thanks for your support.

[Atlantic Ave]

Atlantic AVE what side are you on besides what's best for you on that ten minute walk from your car into Fredo's Ebbets Field because you don't like the view?

Fredo's playing you big time, this was all about building that ballpark and getting the Met fans on his side to drive those people out. It's a bully campaign, nothing more or less.

I have no personal gain or stake in anything other than those people being left alone for the same reason you should be allowed to live and work where you have built your life and not live in fear for something as worthless as a baseball game 81 days a year as bullies try and force you out.

I would think everyone would be on that side.

I am on the pro-NYC, pro-development side. While I haven't been necessarily active (yet) in the Willets Point discussion, I am/and have been a participant in the Atlantic Yards and Brooklyn Bridge Park projects -- attending many Community Board and Neighborhood Association meetings advocating for something bigger than the small-mindedness of opponents.

[metfan61]

My two cents here,

1. If I looked out of my front window and the house accross the street was not upkept to at least a reasonable degree, I would be very unhappy.
These businesses have not done their fair share to at least keep the area or at least their little piece of it safe, clean and respectable. At least the Mets have invested in the area, weather or not it's to make money although it's their right to do so. We now have a beautiful place to enjoy baseball and improving the area will only make it better.

2. Yes I agree that us taxpayers are footing part of the bill here but how many "employees" in the triangle are NOT paying taxes??? I'll bet better than 50% are illegal alians that don't give a damn about the look of the area or the toxic waste they are leaving.


I think the city will do their best to relocate the legit businesses and start fresh to monitor and enforce their operations. This, ultimitly is best for all parties.

[IPO]

Unfortunately the mods don't seem to react to notifications.

Yes, they do but it's a volunteer site and a lot of work.



I don't see what's wrong with Biggie asking people to report illegal activity. You seem to obsess over it though.

Funny but I'm not on twenty forums for hundreds-thousands of pages like he is and Mongoose found the links too it so check for yourself. I found something yesterday where this person pulled exactly what he has here and they all saw through his shell game with comments that are not appropriate for BF.

He's asking people to mobilize, what he wants is thousands of Mets fans on those people doorsteps demanding they leave all the name of Fredo's Brooklyn neighborhood. He wants you to help push eminent domain.

Your being used as a pawn because you wear Met laundry, you don't see it.

[BiggieSmalls]

2. Yes I agree that us taxpayers are footing part of the bill here but how many "employees" in the triangle are NOT paying taxes??? I'll bet better than 50% are illegal alians that don't give a damn about the look of the area or the toxic waste they are leaving.


I think the city will do their best to relocate the legit businesses and start fresh to monitor and enforce their operations. This, ultimitly is best for all parties.

It is actually closer to 80%. And THAT is the BUSINESS OWNERS estimate.

Agree it is best of all parties to move.

Atlantic Ave -- you mean you go to public meetings and you are not a paid shill?? :laugh

Seriously, I think there are some good contributions here. I'll do everything to ignore IPO/Mongoose's baiting and keep this on topic as a way to talk about creating the next great baseball neighborhood.

[BiggieSmalls]

He's asking people to mobilize, what he wants is thousands of Mets fans on those people doorsteps demanding they leave all the name of Fredo's Brooklyn neighborhood.


YES YES YES!!!!!!! :lightbulb: :lightbulb: :clapping :clapping

[IPO]

My two cents here,

1. If I looked out of my front window and the house accross the street was not upkept to at least a reasonable degree, I would be very unhappy.
These businesses have not done their fair share to at least keep the area or at least their little piece of it safe, clean and respectable. At least the Mets have invested in the area, weather or not it's to make money although it's their right to do so. We now have a beautiful place to enjoy baseball and improving the area will only make it better.

2. Yes I agree that us taxpayers are footing part of the bill here but how many "employees" in the triangle are NOT paying taxes??? I'll bet better than 50% are illegal alians that don't give a damn about the look of the area or the toxic waste they are leaving.

I think the city will do their best to relocate the legit businesses and start fresh to monitor and enforce their operations. This, ultimitly is best for all parties.

What's best is to not read the propaganda coming from BiggieSmalls and the Mets with their in-pocket puppet politicians trying to railroad these people out of their lives by any means necessary.

[BiggieSmalls]

has anyone been to any of the great baseball neighborhoods?

They develop rather quickly once the public gets behind the effort.

Wrigley had a bunch of crotchety homeowners on waveland for years until the city mobilized to rezone the area and allow developers to buy up the houses, rebuild and now they have a great 365 day a year place to meet and generate revenue for the city.

Cleveland too.. San Fran is a great example. San Diego too. Pittsburgh and even Philly .. yuck@!

[BiggieSmalls]

What's best is to not read the propaganda coming from BiggieSmalls and the Mets with their in-pocket puppet politicians trying to railroad these people out of their lives by any means necessary.

You mean I could get paid for this?? LMAO. who do i call?

[metfan61]

It is actually closer to 80%. And THAT is the BUSINESS OWNERS estimate.
Agree it is best of all parties to move.

Atlantic Ave -- you mean you go to public meetings and you are not a paid shill?? :laugh

Seriously, I think there are some good contributions here. I'll do everything to ignore IPO/Mongoose's baiting and keep this on topic as a way to talk about creating the next great baseball neighborhood.

I stand corrected! :clapping ;) :D

My company and MYSELF pay $10,000 a year for family health insurance to help subsidize the cost of these people that don't pay ANYTHING for their health care. :hissyfit:

[IPO]

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20295420&BRD=2731&PAG=461&dept_id=574903&rfi=6

Pols team up on Willets Pt.
04/09/2009

State Sen. Hiram Monserrate and Councilwoman Julissa Ferreras (both D-East Elmhurst) blasted the city Sunday for issuing building code citations to several Willets Point landowners in recent weeks.

According to Monserrate, right, the raids shuttered 11 businesses in the gritty 62-acre area near just-opened Citi Field, which the city plans to transform into a mixed-use retail, hotel and affordable housing development.

At this week’s press conference, Monserrate implied that the timing of the raids, coming in the weeks leading up to the Mets’ home opener at Citi Field April 13, was far from accidental.

“The opening of a pristine new stadium next door does not give the city the right to engage in an agency-wide campaign to shut down Willets Point,” Monserrate said.

— Paul Leonard

[BiggieSmalls]

People-

we have a VERY SMALL Window here to mobilize and let the politicians know what we think about the new baseball neighborhood across from Citi Field.

Notwithstanding the myriad of additional benefits that I have outlined in previous posts WE need to be VOCAL in our support of something BETTER across from OUR Ball Park.

read up on the baseball neighborhoods across the country and how they have added economic impact to the their cities. With Flushing Meadow to the South and the vibrant multicultural neighborhoods to the east and west and the Water to the North we could have a wonderful 365 day a year shrine to our national pastime and vibrant community for ALL To enjoy.

Opening Day is next week. Lets get mobilized to use the power of the people to affect change that WE can believe in.

make it happen.. It is YOUR ball park. It is YOUR City.

[BiggieSmalls]

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20295420&brd=2731&pag=461&dept_id=574903&rfi=6

pols team up on willets pt.
04/09/2009

state sen. Hiram monserrate and councilwoman julissa ferreras (both d-east elmhurst) blasted the city sunday for issuing building code citations to several willets point landowners in recent weeks.

According to monserrate, right, the raids shuttered 11 businesses in the gritty 62-acre area near just-opened citi field, which the city plans to transform into a mixed-use retail, hotel and affordable housing development.

At this week’s press conference, monserrate implied that the timing of the raids, coming in the weeks leading up to the mets’ home opener at citi field april 13, was far from accidental.

“the opening of a pristine new stadium next door does not give the city the right to engage in an agency-wide campaign to shut down willets point,” monserrate said.

— paul leonard

its working mets fans>>
now they are siding with indicted felon woman beaters.

[IPO]

People-

we have a VERY SMALL Window here to mobilize and let the politicians know what we think about the new baseball neighborhood across from Citi Field.

Notwithstanding the myriad of additional benefits that I have outlined in previous posts WE need to be VOCAL in our support of something BETTER across from OUR Ball Park.

read up on the baseball neighborhoods across the country and how they have added economic impact to the their cities. With Flushing Meadow to the South and the vibrant multicultural neighborhoods to the east and west and the Water to the North we could have a wonderful 365 day a year shrine to our national pastime and vibrant community for ALL To enjoy.

Opening Day is next week. Lets get mobilized to use the power of the people to affect change that WE can believe in.

make it happen.. It is YOUR ball park. It is YOUR City.

Folks....

FREDO AND HIS LOBBYIST LIKE BIGGIESMALLS have a VERY SMALL Window here to try and bully public opinion, perception and influence politicians who know that for generations no one cared one bit about hardworking people just living their lives legally just like everyone else working in NYC until we paid for Fredo's field of schemes which he built it on their doorstep.

For generations you went to baseball games, those people made their living just like you. All they want is to continue to do the same thing just like you want to attend your games.

Notwithstanding the myriad of additional benefits Biggie Smalls wants for Fredo Wilpon and Jeff-R-Us who build a lower capacity flawed cookie cutter as a shrine to Ebbets Field Dodgers and a rotunda who for a man who would absolutely be on the side of the Willets Points businesses after they ruthlessly replace our beloved Shea Stadum and bury any hint of Mets tradition for forty five years NYC needs to be VOCAL in telling Fredo Wilpon he's taken enough from NYC and our taxpayers and should not be permitted to trample lives in the name of him taking billions more because he wants a Brooklyn Dodger baseball neighborhood next.

No one anywhere has pulled this kind of shell game on it's citizens to tear their lives apart for a baseball game. Baseball already has a 365 day a year shrine to our National Pastime in Cooperstown New York. Fredo wants his Brooklyn Dodger neighborhood and if he had his way would trample generational businesses there long before him and Shea to get it.

Don't fall for some lobbyist who is here to help his boss peruse a Brooklyn Dodger landgrab stand by a community that has never done one thing to hurt the Mets and treated them as neighbors and family since the day Shea was constructed and deserve no less than to make the same living as you do.

Opening Day is next week. Tell Fredo he's taken enough from our taxpayers who pay for his ballpark with every school closed, with every business bought out on our dime and with countless billions more he wants the taxpayers to put out for all in the name of his wallet and making up for money he lost to Madoff.

It is our City, it's not Fredo's Brooklyn Dodger City.