Joba would close if Rivera gets injured

[YankeeDJW]

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090318&content_id=4010534&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

What do you all think? I know the general consensus is that he is most valuable as a starter, so should he be the one to close? And I'm not sure who else would be put in that spot if he isn't.

[TonyStarks]

I'm convinced Cashman has no idea what to do with Joba.

And in the end he's going to end up hurting Joba ...BAD. And Joba will then cease to be the Boogeyman he once was.

[Paulypal]

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090318&content_id=4010534&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

What do you all think? I know the general consensus is that he is most valuable as a starter, so should he be the one to close? And I'm not sure who else would be put in that spot if he isn't.

Its the general consenus but not mine. Mariano goes down he should be the closer. I obviously think he belongs in the pen anyway so Joba being the closer in waiting is a natural fit for me.

I know the majority think that a good starting pitcher is a rarer find than a reliever or that relievers are starters that couldnt make it. That use to be the case but how many shut down 7th and 8th inning guys are there right now? Scot Shields may be the best one in recent years, but how many guys were on that level?

[clipper]

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090318&content_id=4010534&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

What do you all think? I know the general consensus is that he is most valuable as a starter, so should he be the one to close? And I'm not sure who else would be put in that spot if he isn't.

I am so tire of this. Ever since those MLB TV stated it was a mistake, it's a constant issue. If Joba is 10 - 0 as a starter - you think they are going to make him a closer. CC would make a great closer. Mo did great last night. (You can tell he was upset with that one pitch location) Feels great. I'll worry about it when it happens. We have a great pen and have other options. I like Bruney, Robertson, Marte, and Abalabejo (got to learn how to spell this).

There is another site - there is this one guy who constantly posts Joba should be in the pen. Some of the other guys are threatening him.

Clipper

[Domenic]

Its the general consenus but not mine. Mariano goes down he should be the closer. I obviously think he belongs in the pen anyway so Joba being the closer in waiting is a natural fit for me.

I know the majority think that a good starting pitcher is a rarer find than a reliever or that relievers are starters that couldnt make it. That use to be the case but how many shut down 7th and 8th inning guys are there right now? Scot Shields may be the best one in recent years, but how many guys were on that level?

Jonathan Broxton, Carlos Marmol, Hideki Okajima, J.C. Romero, Heath Bell, Scott Linebrink, Russ Springer, Darren Oliver, Juan Cruz, Jared Burton, Jeremy Affeldt, Chad Qualls, and Matt Thornton come to mind - all have been quite good for at least the past two or three seasons.


I am so tire of this. Ever since those MLB TV stated it was a mistake, it's a constant issue. If Joba is 10 - 0 as a starter - you think they are going to make him a closer. CC would make a great closer. Mo did great last night. (You can tell he was upset with that one pitch location) Feels great. I'll worry about it when it happens. We have a great pen and have other options. I like Bruney, Robertson, Marte, and Abalabejo (got to learn how to spell this).

Don't forget Phil Coke and the up-and-coming Mark Melancon - both profile as high-end relievers. Humberto Sanchez has the talent, as well - it's a matter of him staying healthy.

[Paulypal]

Jonathan Broxton, Carlos Marmol, Hideki Okajima, J.C. Romero, Heath Bell, Scott Linebrink, Russ Springer, Darren Oliver, Juan Cruz, Jared Burton, Jeremy Affeldt, Chad Qualls, and Matt Thornton come to mind - all have been quite good for at least the past two or three seasons.



Don't forget Phil Coke and the up-and-coming Mark Melancon - both profile as high-end relievers. Humberto Sanchez has the talent, as well - it's a matter of him staying healthy.

Cmon Dominic are those guys truly dominant like Shields was or Chamberlain has been and can be. Those guys are all good, but I think Joba in that role is devastating.

We are never going to agree on this but I am sure Joba will be in the pen again at some point.

[Domenic]

Cmon Dominic are those guys truly dominant like Shields was or Chamberlain has been and can be. Those guys are all good, but I think Joba in that role is devastating.

We are never going to agree on this but I am sure Joba will be in the pen again at some point.

Chamberlain's ERA as a reliever last season was 2.31. It went up as the season wore on, and will certainly go up from year to year. Chamberlain's 2007 numbers were flukish.

Each of the pitchers I've listed have produced numbers as good, if not better than Shields over the past two or three seasons. Many are young - Broxton, Cruz, and Marmol, for example. You're grasping at straws with this argument. Using Chamberlain's splits last season, it is much easier to find an ERA in the mid 2.00's than it is to find a starter with an ERA in the high 2.00's. That's fact - not opinion.

And a random annoyance - my name is spelled Domenic. It's in the posts you quote - is it that hard to spell it right? :p

[NJYankeeFan]

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090318&content_id=4010534&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

What do you all think? I know the general consensus is that he is most valuable as a starter, so should he be the one to close? And I'm not sure who else would be put in that spot if he isn't.

Possibly even more foolish than using him in the eighth. There are 2 former closers in the Yanks pen and a couple of good candidates for future closers.

[mikesty]

I really can't think of anything better to say than "this is really stupid". I really don't care if Joba is starting or relieving (I've come to the conclusion he's going to ultimately be more useful as a start) right now, BUT don't switch roles on him!!!! If they really feel like Joba would be the closer if something happens to Mo, instead of Bruney / Marte / Whoever, why isn't he in the 8th now?

I just feel like any statement by the club that says Joba is the contingency plan for Mo is dissonant with any statement that he's more effective as a starter rather than a reliever.

[bigbadwolf]

Fortunately the decision re Joba will be made by professionals on the field based on events and circumstances.

[Paulypal]

Chamberlain's ERA as a reliever last season was 2.31. It went up as the season wore on, and will certainly go up from year to year. Chamberlain's 2007 numbers were flukish.

Each of the pitchers I've listed have produced numbers as good, if not better than Shields over the past two or three seasons. Many are young - Broxton, Cruz, and Marmol, for example. You're grasping at straws with this argument. Using Chamberlain's splits last season, it is much easier to find an ERA in the mid 2.00's than it is to find a starter with an ERA in the high 2.00's. That's fact - not opinion.

And a random annoyance - my name is spelled Domenic. It's in the posts you quote - is it that hard to spell it right? :p

Many are young...no kidding thats why I use Shields as my example, because he as done it over a 7-8 year period. I am not grasping at straws at all....I rather see Joba in the pen. I believe one big reason why the Angels have been competitive is the strength of the pen. I like the formula. You can toss all the names out that you want about the Yankee bullpen now..In my opinion I like Joba in the role.

With that said I dont want them bouncing Joba around. He is training as a starter right now and I dont want that to change. They will destroy his arm if they bounce him around.

We shall see how it goes because right now he is their 5 starter.

As far as the spelling of your name...I am a bit older than you..so I had friends with the same name, but they spelled it correctly. :D

[Domenic]

Many are young...no kidding thats why I use Shields as my example, because he as done it over a 7-8 year period. I am not grasping at straws at all....I rather see Joba in the pen. I believe one big reason why the Angels have been competitive is the strength of the pen. I like the formula. You can toss all the names out that you want about the Yankee bullpen now..In my opinion I like Joba in the role.

With that said I dont want them bouncing Joba around. He is training as a starter right now and I dont want that to change. They will destroy his arm if they bounce him around.

We shall see how it goes because right now he is their 5 starter.

As far as the spelling of your name...I am a bit older than you..so I had friends with the same name, but they spelled it correctly. :D

Using a standard of 7-8 years is a bit much - that would be like disallowing starters like Tim Lincecum, Scott Kazmir, Felix Hernandez, Dan Haren, Chad Billingsley, and Jon Lester from being involved in "Best of" discussions. It's simply not feasible. Besides, Shields has only been in the set-up capacity for four seasons - which is comparable to the names I listed.

As for my name - Domenic is the Italian spelling of the Italian name. :crazy

Should I now picture you as a crazy old man, for being older than me? :p

[johnnypapa]

I'm convinced Cashman has no idea what to do with Joba.

And in the end he's going to end up hurting Joba ...BAD. And Joba will then cease to be the Boogeyman he once was.


Tony...I believe this story came from the Post...for all we know, the three 'Yankee officials' could have been ticket takers. It's the Yankees with Arod and Jeter not in camp...time to come up with a story.

[Paulypal]

Using a standard of 7-8 years is a bit much - that would be like disallowing starters like Tim Lincecum, Scott Kazmir, Felix Hernandez, Dan Haren, Chad Billingsley, and Jon Lester from being involved in "Best of" discussions. It's simply not feasible. Besides, Shields has only been in the set-up capacity for four seasons - which is comparable to the names I listed.

As for my name - Domenic is the Italian spelling of the Italian name. :crazy

Should I now picture you as a crazy old man, for being older than me? :p

Last time I checked my last name ended in a vowel...I may know something about the Italian thing.

As far as how you picture me...I have been called worse.

Honestly at this point I am hoping they just start Joba and dont mess with the guy anymore. I just know where I would have liked to have seen him.

[Domenic]

Last time I checked my last name ended in a vowel...I may know something about the Italian thing.

As far as how you picture me...I have been called worse.

Honestly at this point I am hoping they just start Joba and dont mess with the guy anymore. I just know where I would have liked to have seen him.

My last name ends in a vowel, and my middle name is Anthony. :hissyfit:

It's your fault for saying that you're older than me. Just how old are you? :p

[Paulypal]

My last name ends in a vowel, and my middle name is Anthony. :hissyfit:

It's your fault for saying that you're older than me. Just how old are you? :p


44 - but I am not a typical 44 year old. I still hit the gym 5 days week lifting and running, and I play about 120 games of modified fast pitch softball every year. I remember you saying your in your in early 20's....so 44 must sound older than most planets.

[Domenic]

So you're not a crazy old man - a crazy middle-aged man, perhaps. You're not as old as my parents, and I work with mostly older lawyers (50+), so I wouldn't consider you old in the least.

[Mattingly]

Why not let Marte close? Whoever is doing well at the time, the best mid-reliever gets promoted to setup.

If the Yanks wanted a solid closer, they'd go get Pedro Martinez, but his huge ego and lust for money means he'd never take a salary cut to that level.

I'm sure that someone who's pitching now in ST can be converted to setup. Keep Joba where he's at.

The younger guys like Joba and Hughes shouldn't have their roles switched on them like that. Let them do what they were brought here to do and that's it.

[Paulypal]

Why not let Marte close? Whoever is doing well at the time, the best mid-reliever gets promoted to setup.

If the Yanks wanted a solid closer, they'd go get Pedro Martinez, but his huge ego and lust for money means he'd never take a salary cut to that level.

I'm sure that someone who's pitching now in ST can be converted to setup. Keep Joba where he's at.

The younger guys like Joba and Hughes shouldn't have their roles switched on them like that. Let them do what they were brought here to do and that's it.

Normally I would agree with you. The thing about Joba out of the pen is not that he was just very good at it.....but he turned the lights out. I know the Yanks have talent or potential talent in the pen, but with Joba I feel they can really shorten the game whereas I dont get that from anyone else.

[Hysteria]

Rivera looks awesome and I'll put my money on him for a full season. This doesn't even need to be discussed anymore.

[NJYankeeFan]

Normally I would agree with you. The thing about Joba out of the pen is not that he was just very good at it.....but he turned the lights out. I know the Yanks have talent or potential talent in the pen, but with Joba I feel they can really shorten the game whereas I dont get that from anyone else.

Joba was not that great out of the pen last year. In all fairness, Bruney was just as good.

Joba in the pen is a waste.

[Mattingly]

Normally I would agree with you. The thing about Joba out of the pen is not that he was just very good at it.....but he turned the lights out. I know the Yanks have talent or potential talent in the pen, but with Joba I feel they can really shorten the game whereas I dont get that from anyone else.
I wouldn't quite say he would turn the lights out. He was pretty effective, he didn't usually let the game slip away from him. He had a few bad games, but he didn't routinely come in, and some "GAME OVER" sign was there. He would've been a solid closer for a team that didn't have as much pressure, and he did a good job as the setup. Was he Rivera in his prime? No, but I think he was good.

Here's the tale of the tape (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=28847), as they say in boxing (or 2008 Game Log, as they say in baseball). :D

All that may be moot shortly, depending upon how the Yanks work things. In '09, we shall see the following in the rotation:

CC Sabathia (ace)
CM Wang (#2)
AJ Burnett (#3)
A Pettitte (#4)
J Chamberlain (#5)

2010 will be up for grabs at the #4 and #5 spots.

So if around June or September, if someone's gotten hurt or isn't performing very well, who knows if we'll have Phil Hughes or someone else out of the farm? The only time that Chamberlain's performance in the pen will be important is if he fails as a starter, then the Yanks will have to either (1) fix his mechanics, (2) send to the farm, or (3) convert him back to a reliever, with the final option being something which I seriously doubt will happen.

I don't believe that Marte has to necessarily match Joba for lights out electric action pitch-by-pitch. He merely has to come in, not walk any batters, and not let the game slide out of control. If he can get 2 quick outs, then a bases-empty single won't bother me. However, if he routinely allows a walk or hard-hit single every time, that deep single could easily score 2 runs if he's brought into a game in the middle of an inning.

I'm more concerned with the situation and how well the player does in it than I am with anything else.

[Mattingly]

Joba was not that great out of the pen last year. In all fairness, Bruney was just as good.

Joba in the pen is a waste.
What's your reasoning for saying that Bruney was better? Please be more descriptive than "because he was", if you can. Thanks. :)

[NJYankeeFan]

What's your reasoning for saying that Bruney was better? Please be more descriptive than "because he was", if you can. Thanks. :)

Bruney had a 1.83 ERA and 8.7 K/9 in 2008.

Joba had a 2.31 ERA and 11.3 K/9 in 2008 out of the pen.

Roughly the same number of innings (34 1/3 to 35).

Bruney was even better before the injury. Posting a 1.59 ERA and a 9.6 K/9.

It looked like it took him a bit to get his rhythm back when returning, posting a 3.46 ERA and only a 9/8 K/BB ratio before picking it up in September with a 0.00 ERA, 10.8 K/9 and 6/1 K/BB ratio and a .091 BAA in 10 innings (roughly the same as August and April).

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5959

Bruney has closing experience and electric stuff. Control and commitment have always been his problems. He came into camp this year in the best shape of his career. If he gets the control down, we could have one of the best set up men in baseball, leaving Joba in the rotation.

If he doesn't, we still have Marte, Ramirez, Veras, Robertson, Melancon, etc.

[Domenic]

The Yankees have more talent in the bullpen and possible talent for the bullpen than any team in the American League, in my honest opinion.

Coke has fantastic stuff and a great idea how to pitch, Sanchez has great stuff and needs to get healthy, Melancon has closer-type stuff, Robertson has closer-type stuff, and Veras and Ramirez have proven that they could be effective at the ML-level. Add to that the tremendous depth the Yankees have in starting pitchers in the minors (some of which will be converted to relievers), Rivera is under contract for a few more years and was fantastic last year, Marte has a great track record, and Bruney looked terrific last season... I think the Yankees bullpen will be a strength this season, even more so than last.

[TonyStarks]

The Yankees have more talent in the bullpen and possible talent for the bullpen than any team in the American League, in my honest opinion.

Coke has fantastic stuff and a great idea how to pitch, Sanchez has great stuff and needs to get healthy, Melancon has closer-type stuff, Robertson has closer-type stuff, and Veras and Ramirez have proven that they could be effective at the ML-level. Add to that the tremendous depth the Yankees have in starting pitchers in the minors (some of which will be converted to relievers), Rivera is under contract for a few more years and was fantastic last year, Marte has a great track record, and Bruney looked terrific last season... I think the Yankees bullpen will be a strength this season, even more so than last.

Personally, I love what Cashman's done with the bullpen. He hasn't added many arms via Free Agency sans Marte. Bruney came over as a pick from the trash heap. Same with Edwar Ramirez and I believe Jose Veras also...although it could have been a trade. I think Nardi and the pitching folks in SWB and Trenton deserve some credit for helping Veras, Ramirez, and Bruney harness their talent.

[bkdodga]

im happy with the pen