Are Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left

[MaraMoose]

Are Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left. We all know about A-Roid and I heard something Ortiz injected. Hank Aaron never hit 50 HR in a season yet he holds the record (I refuse to recoginize Bonds as the record holder, I have his rookie baseball card with Pittsburgh and he was boney and head was a size of a mushroom). We put our faith in A-Rod but he injected while in Texas (I know he is lying when he said he never did it with NYY because your numbers don't increase after your off the juice). Sosa is suspicious because of Creatine and you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent. If Howard and Fielder have consistant upper 40s - lower to mid 50s in Home Runs and don't get injured, we get integrity back in the career record. And by the way, I hope Bonds suffers in jail and I think it was stupid he was applaued for *756. God bless Mark Ecko for putting an * on the ball in the Hall, Bonds legacy deserves to be embarassed. (Sorry, I have this weird feeling the 1995 season is going to occur again this year with fans not coming due to players on roids and there will be people saying that basketball along with football is America's sport, not baseball)

[slugger33]

Are Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left. We all know about A-Roid and I heard something Ortiz injected. Hank Aaron never hit 50 HR in a season yet he holds the record (I refuse to recoginize Bonds as the record holder, I have his rookie baseball card with Pittsburgh and he was boney and head was a size of a mushroom). We put our faith in A-Rod but he injected while in Texas (I know he is lying when he said he never did it with NYY because your numbers don't increase after your off the juice). Sosa is suspicious because of Creatine and you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent. If Howard and Fielder have consistant upper 40s - lower to mid 50s in Home Runs and don't get injured, we get integrity back in the career record. And by the way, I hope Bonds suffers in jail and I think it was stupid he was applaued for *756. God bless Mark Ecko for putting an * on the ball in the Hall, Bonds legacy deserves to be embarassed. (Sorry, I have this weird feeling the 1995 season is going to occur again this year with fans not coming due to players on roids and there will be people saying that basketball along with football is America's sport, not baseball)
Creatine is not a steroid, nor is it illegal or banned in MLB.

[MaraMoose]

Well it does enhance your performance plus he did use a corked bat for half a season one year before the bat got broken. BTW, I don't believe his excuses when he said he only used it for BP, he could not live up to his 60+ HR seasons anymore plus their is suspisicon how a person in the middle of his career goes from 48 to 66 in HR. He used enhancers, why else do you think people still say Maris is the true record holder

[bluezebra]

Are Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left. We all know about A-Roid and I heard something Ortiz injected. Hank Aaron never hit 50 HR in a season yet he holds the record (I refuse to recoginize Bonds as the record holder, I have his rookie baseball card with Pittsburgh and he was boney and head was a size of a mushroom). We put our faith in A-Rod but he injected while in Texas (I know he is lying when he said he never did it with NYY because your numbers don't increase after your off the juice). Sosa is suspicious because of Creatine and you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent. If Howard and Fielder have consistant upper 40s - lower to mid 50s in Home Runs and don't get injured, we get integrity back in the career record. And by the way, I hope Bonds suffers in jail and I think it was stupid he was applaued for *756. God bless Mark Ecko for putting an * on the ball in the Hall, Bonds legacy deserves to be embarassed. (Sorry, I have this weird feeling the 1995 season is going to occur again this year with fans not coming due to players on roids and there will be people saying that basketball along with football is America's sport, not baseball)


"...you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent."

The Babe jumped from 29 (1919) to 54 (1920), and 47 (1926) to 60 (1927). And he was 'juiced' only on booze and broads.

Bob

[MaraMoose]

Sorry, I forgot about the Babe, one of only two guys in baseball who can hit a Home Run while intoxicated or hungover (God Bless him for it)

[gojays]

"...you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent."

The Babe jumped from 29 (1919) to 54 (1920), and 47 (1926) to 60 (1927). And he was 'juiced' only on booze and broads.

Bob

He was also in the process of switching from pitcher to position player.

[Paulypal]

Are Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left. We all know about A-Roid and I heard something Ortiz injected. Hank Aaron never hit 50 HR in a season yet he holds the record (I refuse to recoginize Bonds as the record holder, I have his rookie baseball card with Pittsburgh and he was boney and head was a size of a mushroom). We put our faith in A-Rod but he injected while in Texas (I know he is lying when he said he never did it with NYY because your numbers don't increase after your off the juice). Sosa is suspicious because of Creatine and you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent. If Howard and Fielder have consistant upper 40s - lower to mid 50s in Home Runs and don't get injured, we get integrity back in the career record. And by the way, I hope Bonds suffers in jail and I think it was stupid he was applaued for *756. God bless Mark Ecko for putting an * on the ball in the Hall, Bonds legacy deserves to be embarassed. (Sorry, I have this weird feeling the 1995 season is going to occur again this year with fans not coming due to players on roids and there will be people saying that basketball along with football is America's sport, not baseball)

Very interesting post. Considering that Aaron and Mays were huge amphetamine users. (as were many many players--as Mike Schmidt just told everyone) Which as we know is an illegal stimulant and performance enhancing. So lets take them two down right now. If you can consider steroids cheating then I can consider amphets cheating. Gaylord Perry threw a spitball, Whitey Ford had Elston Howard cut the ball, as did Nolan Ryan. So they are out of the HOF they cheated too. Ahhhhh but someone who excuses that behavoir calls it gamemanship. Riiiiight exactly.

A corked bat does not make the ball go further in case your interested in that fact. It was done at the turn of the century when the bats were huge. The players would drill out the tips and fill them with cork to make them lighter. When Sosa did it the bats werent so much of an issue. What you gain in bat speed you lose in mass so their is no gain, in fact it may be a loss. This according to Robert Adair.

Creatine is legal, so thats not an argument. Either that or I am going to jail too.

All of these steroid guys also had a disadvantage also that no one seems to mention. They were facing pitchers that were on steroids too. Advantage who?

This is just a period of time where cheating became the news. Thats all it is. Cheating isnt new in baseball as it has been going on since the first game...ok the second game maybe. Their will always be steroids in sports we need to start to learn how to live with that fact.

[bhss89]

Very interesting post. Considering that Aaron and Mays were huge amphetamine users. (as were many many players--as Mike Schmidt just told everyone) Which as we know is an illegal stimulant and performance enhancing. So lets take them two down right now. If you can consider steroids cheating then I can consider amphets cheating. Gaylord Perry threw a spitball, Whitey Ford had Elston Howard cut the ball, as did Nolan Ryan. So they are out of the HOF they cheated too. Ahhhhh but someone who excuses that behavoir calls it gamemanship. Riiiiight exactly.

A corked bat does not make the ball go further in case your interested in that fact. It was done at the turn of the century when the bats were huge. The players would drill out the tips and fill them with cork to make them lighter. When Sosa did it the bats werent so much of an issue. What you gain in bat speed you lose in mass so their is no gain, in fact it may be a loss. This according to Robert Adair.

Creatine is legal, so thats not an argument. Either that or I am going to jail too.

All of these steroid guys also had a disadvantage also that no one seems to mention. They were facing pitchers that were on steroids too. Advantage who?

This is just a period of time where cheating became the news. Thats all it is. Cheating isnt new in baseball as it has been going on since the first game...ok the second game maybe. Their will always be steroids in sports we need to start to learn how to live with that fact.

Questions: Can you give me a source that shows that Aaron and Mays used amphetamnes? Who is Robert Adair? Where can you point me that will prove Nolan Ryan cut/scuffed the ball? How do you know that the "steroid guys" were facing pitchers who "were on steroids too"?

Thanks.

[Paulypal]

Questions: Can you give me a source that shows that Aaron and Mays used amphetamnes? Who is Robert Adair? Where can you point me that will prove Nolan Ryan cut/scuffed the ball? How do you know that the "steroid guys" were facing pitchers who "were on steroids too"?

Thanks.

Here is a link about Mays and Schmidt:

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Amphetamines-in-Baseball-Blog-19359

If you do google search on amphetamines in baseball you will finds articles and references to Aaron.

Robert Adair wrote the Physics of Baseball. Its a great book that explains certain things. The corked bat thing is one of many in the book.

I also read from searching about Ryan that he cut the ball. I am thinking thats where Mike Scott got the info from.

And on the pitchers using steroids....I hope your kidding. Do you think only hitters used steroids, or do you think Clemens was the only one?

No knock on your directly but some of the questions that you asked is the problem with this whole "steroid era". Most think it was 20 hitters that used steroids and as soon as they injected the needle they hit 50 homers that day. Thousands of players have used steroids from stars to fringe players. Just the way it is.

Most people are also taken back when you tell them that players of the 50's on up were jacked up on amphets. It was common in the 60's if you read any baseball books (like Ball Four by Bouton) that there was a bowl in certain clubhouses filled with amphets.....like jelly beans. Its not a big secret.

I just hate that people over look this amphet users and dismiss it because guys like Aaron and Mays did but look to hang ARod and Bonds for juicing. Its either all cheating or none of it is.

You tell me which one?????

[Cowtipper]

Is Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left
Perhaps they is. ;)

[bhss89]

Here is a link about Mays and Schmidt:

http://www.faniq.com/blog/Amphetamines-in-Baseball-Blog-19359

If you do google search on amphetamines in baseball you will finds articles and references to Aaron.

Robert Adair wrote the Physics of Baseball. Its a great book that explains certain things. The corked bat thing is one of many in the book.

I also read from searching about Ryan that he cut the ball. I am thinking thats where Mike Scott got the info from.

And on the pitchers using steroids....I hope your kidding. Do you think only hitters used steroids, or do you think Clemens was the only one?

No knock on your directly but some of the questions that you asked is the problem with this whole "steroid era". Most think it was 20 hitters that used steroids and as soon as they injected the needle they hit 50 homers that day. Thousands of players have used steroids from stars to fringe players. Just the way it is.

Most people are also taken back when you tell them that players of the 50's on up were jacked up on amphets. It was common in the 60's if you read any baseball books (like Ball Four by Bouton) that there was a bowl in certain clubhouses filled with amphets.....like jelly beans. Its not a big secret.

I just hate that people over look this amphet users and dismiss it because guys like Aaron and Mays did but look to hang ARod and Bonds for juicing. Its either all cheating or none of it is.

You tell me which one?????

We can agree to disagree on this one.

First of all, I'm not going to take info you found on a blog as the absolute truth. I'm supposed to condemn Willie Mays for taking "greenies" based on mid-80s testimony from John Milner? For my money's worth, when Mays comes forward to say that he took amphetamines to enhance his performance, then I'll believe it. YOU do a damn Google search on Aaron's amphetamines use and then post it.
And speaking of Aaron's name, I didn't see him referenced in the blog that you put so much stock into in this case. The author of the blog is "phillydeac4life" and I'm supposed to just toss in my cards and give up on what I believe to be true and buy into his mindless drivel? That I might add has, like your post, ZERO credible sources? Robert Adair's book is full of his theories on the physics of baseball - his opinion is that corking a bat results in little gain. And you "searched" for info on Ryan and found that it's alleged that he cut the ball? And you never mentioned Mike Scott until you replied? Did you "search" and read that he cut the ball? Or was he just able to consistently throw one helluva a forkball/split-fingered fastball? That eventually may have led to his demise?
No, I'm not kidding about the pitchers on 'roids. Don't guess, don't speculate. Give me a link. Type in some facts.
And yes, I'm taken aback when you mention guys from the 50s and 60s using PEDs to get ahead of the competition. Taken aback because you cannot provide me with any facts, quotes, credible sources, etc.
"Thousands of players have used steroids," . . . "just the way it is."

To quote YOU, I hate when people overlook . . . FACTS . . . before they post on BBF. I hope YOU'RE kidding when you post "facts" like you have and then are surprised when baseball fans such as myself simply ask for credible sources before they believe that the Aarons, Mayses, Ryans, et al were a bunch of cheaters that dare be mentioned with that a-hole Bonds and A-Fraud.

Others might be thinkin' my post, I'm just the one who happens to be typin' it.

[Brad Harris]

Are Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left. We all know about A-Roid and I heard something Ortiz injected. Hank Aaron never hit 50 HR in a season yet he holds the record (I refuse to recoginize Bonds as the record holder, I have his rookie baseball card with Pittsburgh and he was boney and head was a size of a mushroom). We put our faith in A-Rod but he injected while in Texas (I know he is lying when he said he never did it with NYY because your numbers don't increase after your off the juice). Sosa is suspicious because of Creatine and you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent. If Howard and Fielder have consistant upper 40s - lower to mid 50s in Home Runs and don't get injured, we get integrity back in the career record. And by the way, I hope Bonds suffers in jail and I think it was stupid he was applaued for *756. God bless Mark Ecko for putting an * on the ball in the Hall, Bonds legacy deserves to be embarassed. (Sorry, I have this weird feeling the 1995 season is going to occur again this year with fans not coming due to players on roids and there will be people saying that basketball along with football is America's sport, not baseball)
Thank God we've got this kind of sleuthing to root out who did and didn't do something that wasn't against the game's rules at the time to help their teams win! For a few years there, I was worried we'd never figure out how to decide which scapegoats to crucify. Sure glad Sherlock Holmes is here to protect us from these evildoers and preserve the holy sanctity of 755.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Questions: Can you give me a source that shows that Aaron ... used amphetamnes?

Aaron himself admitted to using amphetimines once in his autobiography I Had a Hammer. He said he didn't like the way they made them feel and he never used them again.

[Paulypal]

We can agree to disagree on this one.

First of all, I'm not going to take info you found on a blog as the absolute truth. I'm supposed to condemn Willie Mays for taking "greenies" based on mid-80s testimony from John Milner? For my money's worth, when Mays comes forward to say that he took amphetamines to enhance his performance, then I'll believe it. YOU do a damn Google search on Aaron's amphetamines use and then post it.
And speaking of Aaron's name, I didn't see him referenced in the blog that you put so much stock into in this case. The author of the blog is "phillydeac4life" and I'm supposed to just toss in my cards and give up on what I believe to be true and buy into his mindless drivel? That I might add has, like your post, ZERO credible sources? Robert Adair's book is full of his theories on the physics of baseball - his opinion is that corking a bat results in little gain. And you "searched" for info on Ryan and found that it's alleged that he cut the ball? And you never mentioned Mike Scott until you replied? Did you "search" and read that he cut the ball? Or was he just able to consistently throw one helluva a forkball/split-fingered fastball? That eventually may have led to his demise?
No, I'm not kidding about the pitchers on 'roids. Don't guess, don't speculate. Give me a link. Type in some facts.
And yes, I'm taken aback when you mention guys from the 50s and 60s using PEDs to get ahead of the competition. Taken aback because you cannot provide me with any facts, quotes, credible sources, etc.
"Thousands of players have used steroids," . . . "just the way it is."

To quote YOU, I hate when people overlook . . . FACTS . . . before they post on BBF. I hope YOU'RE kidding when you post "facts" like you have and then are surprised when baseball fans such as myself simply ask for credible sources before they believe that the Aarons, Mayses, Ryans, et al were a bunch of cheaters that dare be mentioned with that a-hole Bonds and A-Fraud.

Others might be thinkin' my post, I'm just the one who happens to be typin' it.

Thats fine. It doesnt really matter. I know I am in the minority in my thinking, but I know its MY thinking. I dont differentiate between what act of cheating is worse because Aaron and Mays did it, as compared to Bonds and Arod. People have been having it drilled into their head that these guys are the Mount Rushmore of baseball and I wont disagree. Aaron and Mays are two of my all time favorite players. I wear 24 because of Mays. It doesnt mean that these guys didnt do anything "wrong". Aaron admitted amphetaine use in "I Had a Hammer" so I will take his word for it.

The article didnt say what you wanted it to say so you dismiss it. Thats ok...I get it. John Milner who played with Mays and against Aaron probably doesnt know anything. LOL....but you do.

If you think no pitchers used steroids then what can I tell you that you dont already know? I guess its true Rogers Clemens and Jason Grimsley are the only two that have. I am also guessing that the bucket of balls that the Mets had with the cut in the same exact spot on every game ball from Mike Scott in the 1986 playoffs is either a complete lie that Keith Hernandez likes to tell or a huge coincidence. As far as Ryan cutting the ball...I will try to find the article again and post it.

As far as that one blog- do your own research if your so inclined. As I said eariler Google..Amphetamines in Baseball and see what comes up. I guess I made it up because because I have so much invested in if you like ARod or not. I really dont care if you or anyone else believe how long cutting the ball or amphets have been around.

I guess cheating in baseball started in the early 90's. Before that everyone was just honest and on the up and up. Jim Bouton was have told a book full of lies and the amphetamine use and abuse referenced in his book is a fairly tale.

Enjoy

[Paulypal]

Aaron himself admitted to using amphetimines once in his autobiography I Had a Hammer. He said he didn't like the way they made them feel and he never used them again.

He also referenced using them several times in the book contradicting his original statement. It doesnt matter though...its Aaron..nuff said

[m8644]

there's been cheating in baseball for well over 100 years...steroids is just the newest form of it.

[Paulypal]

there's been cheating in baseball for well over 100 years...steroids is just the newest form of it.

That is exactly my point. Steroids may also be the most effective way to affect the game by way of cheating, but it doesnt mean it has been the only way.

[SamtheBravesFan]

He also referenced using them several times in the book contradicting his original statement. It doesnt matter though...its Aaron..nuff said

Huh. I only remembered that one part. Maybe I need to go back and look through it again.

[bhss89]

Thats fine. It doesnt really matter. I know I am in the minority in my thinking, but I know its MY thinking. I dont differentiate between what act of cheating is worse because Aaron and Mays did it, as compared to Bonds and Arod. People have been having it drilled into their head that these guys are the Mount Rushmore of baseball and I wont disagree. Aaron and Mays are two of my all time favorite players. I wear 24 because of Mays. It doesnt mean that these guys didnt do anything "wrong". Aaron admitted amphetaine use in "I Had a Hammer" so I will take his word for it.

The article didnt say what you wanted it to say so you dismiss it. Thats ok...I get it. John Milner who played with Mays and against Aaron probably doesnt know anything. LOL....but you do.

If you think no pitchers used steroids then what can I tell you that you dont already know? I guess its true Rogers Clemens and Jason Grimsley are the only two that have. I am also guessing that the bucket of balls that the Mets had with the cut in the same exact spot on every game ball from Mike Scott in the 1986 playoffs is either a complete lie that Keith Hernandez likes to tell or a huge coincidence. As far as Ryan cutting the ball...I will try to find the article again and post it.

As far as that one blog- do your own research if your so inclined. As I said eariler Google..Amphetamines in Baseball and see what comes up. I guess I made it up because because I have so much invested in if you like ARod or not. I really dont care if you or anyone else believe how long cutting the ball or amphets have been around.

I guess cheating in baseball started in the early 90's. Before that everyone was just honest and on the up and up. Jim Bouton was have told a book full of lies and the amphetamine use and abuse referenced in his book is a fairly tale.

Enjoy

Enjoy . . . ?
And the John Milner part, that has you laughing out loud at me, makes me LOL. Hard to exchange posts with you when you're so sarcastic.
I'm not inclined to do any research - it was YOU who brought up those "facts", so it seems to me that YOU should do the research to back up your "findings."
The article didn't say what YOU said it did - don't drag me into it. I didn't want it to say anything - I went to the link to find out if it read the way you claimed it did, and it did most certainly not.
Link to the story that gives credibility to the idea of the Mets having the bucket of Scott-scuffed baseballs?
And DO post the link to the Ryan article about him also cutting/scuffing.
And you bring up Bouton's book and imply that I discredit what he wrote. I discredit your post, not his book. I never said anything to discredit his book; I never said it was a "fairly" tale.
As I said, agreeing to disagree is okay.

[bhss89]

Thats fine. It doesnt really matter. I know I am in the minority in my thinking, but I know its MY thinking. I dont differentiate between what act of cheating is worse because Aaron and Mays did it, as compared to Bonds and Arod. People have been having it drilled into their head that these guys are the Mount Rushmore of baseball and I wont disagree. Aaron and Mays are two of my all time favorite players. I wear 24 because of Mays. It doesnt mean that these guys didnt do anything "wrong". Aaron admitted amphetaine use in "I Had a Hammer" so I will take his word for it.

The article didnt say what you wanted it to say so you dismiss it. Thats ok...I get it. John Milner who played with Mays and against Aaron probably doesnt know anything. LOL....but you do.

If you think no pitchers used steroids then what can I tell you that you dont already know? I guess its true Rogers Clemens and Jason Grimsley are the only two that have. I am also guessing that the bucket of balls that the Mets had with the cut in the same exact spot on every game ball from Mike Scott in the 1986 playoffs is either a complete lie that Keith Hernandez likes to tell or a huge coincidence. As far as Ryan cutting the ball...I will try to find the article again and post it.

As far as that one blog- do your own research if your so inclined. As I said eariler Google..Amphetamines in Baseball and see what comes up. I guess I made it up because because I have so much invested in if you like ARod or not. I really dont care if you or anyone else believe how long cutting the ball or amphets have been around.

I guess cheating in baseball started in the early 90's. Before that everyone was just honest and on the up and up. Jim Bouton was have told a book full of lies and the amphetamine use and abuse referenced in his book is a fairly tale.

Enjoy

Aaron admitted amphetamine use in I Had A Hammer the same way the kids in The Sandlot admitted to using "chaw." One-time deal that was over about as soon as it had begun. If that's enough for you to damn him along with A-Fraud and Bonds, then we can peacefully disagree on what "cheating" in MLB entails.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Aaron admitted amphetamine use in I Had A Hammer the same way the kids in The Sandlot admitted to using "chaw." One-time deal that was over about as soon as it had begun. If that's enough for you to damn him along with A-Fraud and Bonds, then we can peacefully disagree on what "cheating" in MLB entails.

You're damning A-Rod and Bonds with the same amount of evidence we have on Aaron and Mays. It was hardly a one-time deal but ok. We disagree with what we choose to disagree with.

[bhss89]

You're damning A-Rod and Bonds with the same amount of evidence we have on Aaron and Mays. It was hardly a one-time deal but ok. We disagree with what we choose to disagree with.

I agree, then, on how we should disagree. Same amount of evidence? That, as you say, is a matter of opinion. Same type of evidence? I guess we'll never now for certain. And if Aaron says in his autobio that it was a one-time deal then I, for one, am not going to use the word "hardly" to describe that situation.
I'm finished with this thread as I simply cannot view Aaron and Mays as "cheaters" along with Rodriguez and Bonds. Not that I'll be missed . . . :D

[Paulypal]

You're damning A-Rod and Bonds with the same amount of evidence we have on Aaron and Mays. It was hardly a one-time deal but ok. We disagree with what we choose to disagree with.

Exactly the point. Thank you.

The only time any sarcasm comes out is when I see people that can segregrate different levels of cheating.

Personally, steroids never bothered me in baseball. It has been obvious to me since 1993 that steroids have been in the game. When Dykstra gained 35 pounds of muscle in an offseason. I am not saying players SHOULD take them, but we all know they will. Whether it be designer roids that are undetectable or HGH which there is no test for, players will take them.

The reason I am not appalled by steroid use or amphet use is that I know you can take all the steroids or amphets you want but you still have to have the eye hand coordination to hit the ball. Steroids and amphets still do not put the good part of the bat on the good part of the ball. Another thing about steroids is most people think you take them and bam you can hit home runs. It doesnt work that way. Actually the guys that take them are the hardest workers in the game because they recover so quickly that they can go at weights/running/ baseball training constantly. The biggest asset I think from steroids is the ability to recover. Which is a huge reason why pitchers have used them.

The one thing I will not do which most do, and I know this causes heated disagreements on here is say Aaron and Mays did "A" so its ok, but Bonds and ARod did "B" and its not ok. Actually I keep picking on Mays/Aaron, but Mantle may have been the bigger amphet user because of his late nights and drinking he needed them to get game ready. As I stated earlier and as Mike Schmidt said (unless he is lying also) they actually had bowls of amphets in the clubhouse.

Problem is that according to what honest players of that era say a huge percentage (upto 75% according to some players) of players were using amphets. Which everyone can agree to. Then if you mention a name that they dont like for example Willie Mays...they get irate..they want proof,,they want a blood test, and then they tell you that because you like Bonds and or ARod that your just bashing Mays and making an excuse. Personally I dont need to make an excuse for ARod the guy is making 28,000,000.00 a year so he has done fine without me.

I understand nobody likes their heroes bashed or tainted, but the fact remains that since the beginning of the game cheating has occurred. Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner threw games for money which if you read about early baseball was a very common practice. Fixing games didnt start and end with the 1918 Sox.

I also can appreciate when a player of years ago says he would be tempted to or use steroids. Mike Schmidt has said, as has Jim Kaat and most recently Darryl Strawberry.

I know it always seems like the players of years ago played for the love of the game and the players now just play for money, but I hope you know how wrong that is and how inaccurate that is. The players always wanted more money. The first baseball strike happened in the late 1800's because of........money. The problem was the owners held all the cards. Players didnt walk on morally higher ground they were just treated like crap. As most things as time has passed the stories change and it seems like the older players walked on water.

[metfan13]

I've heard the stories about Cobb, but Wagner?

[Captain Cold Nose]

I agree, then, on how we should disagree. Same amount of evidence? That, as you say, is a matter of opinion. Same type of evidence? I guess we'll never now for certain. And if Aaron says in his autobio that it was a one-time deal then I, for one, am not going to use the word "hardly" to describe that situation.
I'm finished with this thread as I simply cannot view Aaron and Mays as "cheaters" along with Rodriguez and Bonds. Not that I'll be missed . . . :D

Intelligent viewpoints are always welcomed. If you come back, you come back. I can't think of a single poster who's views are "needed" anywhere, so we're all in that boat.

I've heard it was something done rather regularly by Aaron, not just once. That's all he was willing to admit to, but he probably says that about Lays Potato Chips too, and we all know the truth about those. But, I do think steroids are worse than amphetamines. We simply don't know the full effects, but one is a step or three beyond the other. It's about degrees, and how much was done by how many for how long.

[bhss89]

Great post Paulypal - you make your point really well.

I guess I do tend to over-romaticize the "good 'ol days", but it's hard for me not to do so - and I'm too young to have seen Aaron, Mays, Mantle, et al play in person. As the small boy in Eight Men Out says, "Say it ain't so Joe." Say it ain't so Hank, Willie, etc.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I've heard the stories about Cobb, but Wagner?

I think he meant Tris Speaker.

[Paulypal]

I think he meant Tris Speaker.

Speaker too but yes Honus Wagner also......according to Ken Burns.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Speaker too but yes Honus Wagner also......according to Ken Burns.

Really? I must have missed that. Was that in Baseball?

[Paulypal]

Really? I must have missed that. Was that in Baseball?

Yes...I am almost positive he said Wagner also. Its possible I mixed it up, but I thought he mentioned the three of them as the stars that were involved. I could be wrong...either way it aint good.

[Paulypal]

I stand corrected. After looking it up I dont think Wagner did any such thing. It was noted about Speaker and Cobb as the Captain mentioned.

Sorry about that.

[Paulypal]

Great post Paulypal - you make your point really well.

I guess I do tend to over-romaticize the "good 'ol days", but it's hard for me not to do so - and I'm too young to have seen Aaron, Mays, Mantle, et al play in person. As the small boy in Eight Men Out says, "Say it ain't so Joe." Say it ain't so Hank, Willie, etc.

Its easier to over romantacize the good old days. First of all we all do that because when you think back you tend forget the negative stuff. Tell a Yankee fan about how bad Mantle was booed and he probably wont have any recollection.

The HUGE factor is the media. Players in the 50's-70's were allowed to make mistakes off the field. Most times we didnt even hear about it. It wasnt that they were non existent the media just wouldnt cross that line because the beat writers would get treated like leppers. Now a days ESPN is 4 stations 24/7. They can take Shaq and Kobe and make a mini-series out of it.

I am 44 so I remember Willie Mays when he came back to the Mets so I didnt see any of these guys in their prime either, but I still feel I saw the most feared hitter in 70 years when I saw Bonds hit. People can say how and why all day long, but watching him hit was great for me.

I also agree with the Captain that roids are a worse form of cheating than amphets. No doubt. That does not mean that amphets is not cheating, it just means that its the lesser of two evils. If someone commits armed robbery and some else commits murder, they are both wrong and both going to jail. Of course murder is worse, but we dont pat the armed robbery guy on the back. All I am saying is dont segregate wrong from more wrong. its all wrong.

[flota89]

No. Howard and Fielder are not the only two honest power hitters left. Where did this assumption come from? Manny Ramirez has never been associated with cheating as far as we know. Neither has Albert Pujols. There are many more. How about Jim Thome, Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn, Lance Berkman, Carlos Delgado, Ryan Braun? Howard and Fielder are definately not the only honest power hitters left. They really arent that good anyway. Howard either hits a home run or strikes out.

[west coast orange and black]

bhss89: Can you give me a source that shows that Aaron and Mays used amphetamines?

had the feds not unlawfully snared the 104 names and rodriguez' name not be leaked, he would still be in a certain column, not the other.
it is merely chance rather than rodriguez' actual use that his name is sullied.

re aaron and mays: sorry, man, but there is no one link.
so many stars have admitted to using, but you just hadta have been in on the conversation.

[bluezebra]

Sorry, I forgot about the Babe, one of only two guys in baseball who can hit a Home Run while intoxicated or hungover (God Bless him for it)

Have you lived in a cave in Afghanistan all your life? Only TWO GUYS? Are you joking?

Bob

[sturg1dj]

can we go back to the idea that creatine is ok, but steroids are awful?

I understand one is illegal and one is not, but there has been much debate whether it should be a banned substance or not. If it ever does do we use the same lame logic of "they should have known what they were doing was wrong?"

It is a performance enhancer, if it weren't then I doubt it would be used. It may be legal, but is it fair?

[slugger33]

can we go back to the idea that creatine is ok, but steroids are awful?

I understand one is illegal and one is not, but there has been much debate whether it should be a banned substance or not. If it ever does do we use the same lame logic of "they should have known what they were doing was wrong?"

It is a performance enhancer, if it weren't then I doubt it would be used. It may be legal, but is it fair?
What about caffiene? LASIK eye surgery? Carbo loading?

[KCGHOST]

I don't think anyone can prove Howard and Fielder are the only honest power hitters left. First, it is virtually impossible to prove they never took the stuff.

Second, considering that Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, Adam Dunn, Adam Pujols all have as many forty HR seasons in this decade as Howard and Fielder would certainly classify them as power hitters. They have not been linked to the juice any more than Howard and Fielder.

[Brooklyn]

"...you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent."

The Babe jumped from 29 (1919) to 54 (1920), and 47 (1926) to 60 (1927). And he was 'juiced' only on booze and broads.

Bob

He was also in the process of switching from pitcher to position player.

If you don't like Babe Ruth as an example, how about Roger Maris? Jumped from 39 to 61 in one season. Jimmie Foxx? Jumped from 30 to 58. Hank Greenberg? 40 to 58. Hack Wilson? 39 to 56. George Foster? 29 to 52.

You don't know Howard and Fielder haven't juiced jsut because they have been consistent. Perhaps the started juicing in the minors, so you wouldn't see the spike?

[sturg1dj]

If you don't like Babe Ruth as an example, how about Roger Maris? Jumped from 39 to 61 in one season. Jimmie Foxx? Jumped from 30 to 58. Hank Greenberg? 40 to 58. Hack Wilson? 39 to 56. George Foster? 29 to 52.

You don't know Howard and Fielder haven't juiced jsut because they have been consistent. Perhaps the started juicing in the minors, so you wouldn't see the spike?

Cecil Fielder went from 38 (in Japan) to 51....and his previous major league high was 14 I believe


and then you have Brady Anderson...who is a prime example of someone who probably used, although most people seem to believe him when he says he used only supplements (was it andro or creatine?)

[Ace Venom]

You can get creatine from eating meat. What you're essentially talking about is a creatine supplement, which is a whole different beast than anabolic steroids. Creatine is safe and legal and there's no reason why Sosa should be considered a cheater for practically taking supplements. There's certainly some method to the madness for people heckling Prince Fielder to eat a steak.

[Buczilla]

and then you have Brady Anderson...

Brady Anderson's coach from 1996 had his own power surge back in 1973.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

never mind

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Cecil Fielder went from 38 (in Japan) to 51....and his previous major league high was 14 I believe


and then you have Brady Anderson...who is a prime example of someone who probably used, although most people seem to believe him when he says he used only supplements (was it andro or creatine?)

There's one caveat with Fielder, though. I believe the Hanshin Tigers played 130 games in 1989, the year Fielder hit 38 HRs. Also, When Fielder left for Japan he had hit 31 HRs in just 506 career major league ABs.

[Brad Harris]

I don't think anyone can prove Howard and Fielder are the only honest power hitters left. First, it is virtually impossible to prove they never took the stuff.

Second, considering that Jim Thome, Manny Ramirez, Adam Dunn, Adam Pujols all have as many forty HR seasons in this decade as Howard and Fielder would certainly classify them as power hitters. They have not been linked to the juice any more than Howard and Fielder.
Nonsense! Just look at a before/after snapshot! They're all bigger than they were when they were 19, just like Bonds! :laugh

[Ace Venom]

Nonsense! Just look at a before/after snapshot! They're all bigger than they were when they were 19, just like Bonds! :laugh

Now I have to admit that this is pretty funny. :laugh

"I have a Barry Bonds rookie card. Look how small he is here and look at this picture. Look at him! He's huge!"

That's the majority of steroid arguments I've seen at espn.com. :banghead: I've seen the same discussions about Sosa at his peak years compared to when he was a rookie.

[Steven Gallanter]

Now I have to admit that this is pretty funny. :laugh

"I have a Barry Bonds rookie card. Look how small he is here and look at this picture. Look at him! He's huge!"

That's the majority of steroid arguments I've seen at espn.com. :banghead: I've seen the same discussions about Sosa at his peak years compared to when he was a rookie.
Bert Campeneris hit more than 20 homers in 1970.

Wade Boggs hit over 20 in 1987.

Carl Yastremski went from 23 homers to 44 in1967.

It happens.

[Boston Boxer]

Are Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder the only honest power hitters left. We all know about A-Roid and I heard something Ortiz injected. Hank Aaron never hit 50 HR in a season yet he holds the record (I refuse to recoginize Bonds as the record holder, I have his rookie baseball card with Pittsburgh and he was boney and head was a size of a mushroom). We put our faith in A-Rod but he injected while in Texas (I know he is lying when he said he never did it with NYY because your numbers don't increase after your off the juice). Sosa is suspicious because of Creatine and you don't jump from 48 to 66 in one season by natural talent. If Howard and Fielder have consistant upper 40s - lower to mid 50s in Home Runs and don't get injured, we get integrity back in the career record. And by the way, I hope Bonds suffers in jail and I think it was stupid he was applaued for *756. God bless Mark Ecko for putting an * on the ball in the Hall, Bonds legacy deserves to be embarassed. (Sorry, I have this weird feeling the 1995 season is going to occur again this year with fans not coming due to players on roids and there will be people saying that basketball along with football is America's sport, not baseball)

What did Ortiz inject...this is the first i have heard of it. Can you post the article or link because i want to read it.

[cardsfanatic]

I thought it was funny when I saw a poll conducted by Sporting News. People who are just casual baseball fans? 92% of them said steroids were the biggest problem facing the game of baseball and users should be banned from baseball. People who were diehard fans saw a myriad of non-steroid issues as the biggest problem with the game: ranging from salaries to a salary cap and so forth and they overwhelmingly were not in favor of banning steroid users from baseball.

So, I guess what I'd like to see if casual fans to just go away. If steroids bother you this much that you have to start a frickin thread aboput them 20 times a day? Quit watching baseball. Go watch the NFL where every player is roided up or basketball where half the league has criminal records.

As for this topic? LOL. So, Adam Dunn, Lance Berkman, Albert Pujols etc... aren't clean, hmmm? Only Prince and Howard? Why, because they're fat?

[SilentKiller]

I thought it was funny when I saw a poll conducted by Sporting News. People who are just casual baseball fans? 92% of them said steroids were the biggest problem facing the game of baseball and users should be banned from baseball. People who were diehard fans saw a myriad of non-steroid issues as the biggest problem with the game: ranging from salaries to a salary cap and so forth and they overwhelmingly were not in favor of banning steroid users from baseball.

So, I guess what I'd like to see if casual fans to just go away. If steroids bother you this much that you have to start a frickin thread aboput them 20 times a day? Quit watching baseball. Go watch the NFL where every player is roided up or basketball where half the league has criminal records.

As for this topic? LOL. So, Adam Dunn, Lance Berkman, Albert Pujols etc... aren't clean, hmmm? Only Prince and Howard? Why, because they're fat?

Lance Berkman and Albert Pujols are strong candidates for steroid usage.

[Mild Sauce]

Sorry, I forgot about the Babe, one of only two guys in baseball who can hit a Home Run while intoxicated or hungover (God Bless him for it)

Don't forget Hack Wilson, he'd supposedly do it when so drunk that he couldn't even barely walk.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Don't forget Hack Wilson, he'd supposedly do it when so drunk that he couldn't even barely walk.

And of course lets not forget Jimmie Foxx!

[bob]

Lance Berkman and Albert Pujols are strong candidates for steroid usage.
If by strong candidates you mean "can hit home runs" then yes i suppose they are.

[SamtheBravesFan]

If by strong candidates you mean "can hit home runs" then yes i suppose they are.

I'm guessing he means their builds. They look like lumberjacks, sort of like McGwire once did. I won't suspect them because of that, but there are people who will.

[STLCards2]

I'm guessing he means their builds. They look like lumberjacks, sort of like McGwire once did. I won't suspect them because of that, but there are people who will.

They are both kind of pudgy - not your protoypical lumberjack types. Pujols suposedly weighted more in college than he does now, which is why so many didn't draft him. Not that that means he is or isn't on steroids, but just physical appearance is a very weak way of determining usage.

[CardsFan1982]

Lance Berkman and Albert Pujols are strong candidates for steroid usage.Please explain.

[CandlestickBum]

I also agree with the Captain that roids are a worse form of cheating than amphets.
<snip>
If someone commits armed robbery and some else commits murder, they are both wrong and both going to jail. Of course murder is worse, but we dont pat the armed robbery guy on the back. All I am saying is dont segregate wrong from more wrong. its all wrong.

I thought Coldnose said simply that "roids are worse", as in worse for you, and more powereful. I didn't take it as meaning "worse form of cheating".

I disagree at any rate, both were the most powerful meds available in their respective eras, so in my mind equal. You certainly can't say that if roids were available in the 50-60's that the players would have been too squeamish to use them.

[CandlestickBum]

They are both kind of pudgy - not your protoypical lumberjack types. Pujols suposedly weighted more in college than he does now, which is why so many didn't draft him. Not that that means he is or isn't on steroids, but just physical appearance is a very weak way of determining usage.

Sure, sure, but anybody who's willing to swear by the innocence of any player during this era, especially anyone noted for, say, power hitting, is purposely obtuse.

Basically all players between 1990 and 2005 are suspect. And there were athletes using roids even earlier than that.
Hell, to be really cynical, players have been on one thing or another since the '50's.

[flota89]

Lance Berkman and Albert Pujols are strong candidates for steroid usage.

Strong candidates for steroid usage? Why? Because they can hit? There is no evidence either of them took steroids. Just because other power hitters such as Bonds or Rodriguez took them does not mean Berkman and Pujols did. As far as we know, neither of them took steroids.

[Buczilla]

Lance Berkman and Albert Pujols are strong candidates for steroid usage.

Speculation....tsk, tsk.

Chew on this....from the latest issue of SI....

The Power To Believe
Albert Pujols is the Best Player in Baseball, and he understands the curse that comes with that title. But the Cardinals' slugger has this message for you: He won't let you down
JOE POSNANSKI
March 16, 2009

RADIO ANNOUNCER

Babe Ruth has just made that same gesture again! With two strikes on him, he pointed to the flagpole in the centerfield bleachers, plainly indicating that's where he means to park that next pitch! (Camera closes in on sick boy sleeping in his hospital bed, his worried parents sitting bedside. Cut back to the Babe at the plate.)

BABE RUTH (to catcher)
Sit down and rest, kid, I'm riding this one out of the park.

CATCHER
Oh, yeah? You and who else?

BABE RUTH
Me and a young pal of mine. (Ruth connects.)

RADIO ANNOUNCER
He did it! It's a home run in the centerfield bleachers ... right where he pointed! (Camera cuts back to sick boy. His eyes open.)

—scene from The Babe Ruth Story

ALBERT PUJOLS knows that people do not believe him. He does not just know it, he lives it, breathes it, he takes it with him into the batting cage in Jupiter, Fla., on a hazy mosquito day at the St. Louis Cardinals' spring training complex. Pujols stretches out into his familiar batting stance—legs wide apart, bat quivering high above his shoulder, head up in an oddly proud way, like he's a soldier sitting on a horse, like he's posing for posterity. A batting practice pitcher throws, and Pujols rockets hard line drive after hard line drive. People marvel at how much louder and fuller the ball sounds coming off his bat than off the bat of anyone else. That sound used to make heroes. Now, it only cements his guilt in the minds of the most cynical in the great American jury.

This is the uncompromising math of 2009: The more Albert Pujols hits, the less those cynics will believe him.

He will not stop hitting, of course. That is no option. He hit his way out of the Dominican Republic. He hit his way into the American dream. In his eight years in the major leagues, Pujols, still only 29, has never hit less than .314, never hit fewer than 32 home runs, never driven in fewer than 103 runs, never finished out of the Top 10 in the MVP balloting. He is the Best Player in Baseball.

But this is not a great time to be the best anything in baseball. Barry Bonds was the best player, and now he is facing federal perjury charges. Roger Clemens was the best pitcher, and every other day another newspaper story takes him down one more notch. Mark McGwire was the best home run hitter, and after telling Congress that he did not want to talk about the past, he has all but disappeared into a Pynchon-like seclusion. Alex Rodriguez was the best player, and now he tentatively admits guilt while A-ROID! headlines splash and fans heckle and a hip injury shuts him down.

"We're in this era where people want to judge other people," Pujols says. "And that's so sad." He would like to leave it with those three words—that's so sad—but then people might wonder.

So he continues: "But it's like I always say, 'Come and test me. Come and do whatever you want.' Because you know what? There is something more important to me—my relationship with Jesus Christ and caring about others. More than this baseball. This baseball is nothing to me."

He stops cold. He shakes his head. Those words don't do him any good either. This is more of the uncompromising math of 2009: The more he denies, the less people will believe him.

This is the uneasy state of the new baseball hero. Albert Pujols knows he cannot prove to people that he has never used steroids. He knows that there will always be doubters. "Let's say I retire 15 years from now," he says. "They're going to say, 'Well, he probably did it back then. He just didn't get caught.' I know that's what they're going to say. And you know what, man? It is sad, but at the same time, it doesn't matter. I know who I am. I don't care."

Well, this is one answer. He could not worry about any of it. Albert Pujols makes a lot of money. He is the most beloved figure in one of America's best baseball towns. He is putting up baseball numbers that bend the imagination. Yes, he could just go about his business, play ball and leave the hero business to someone else. There's only one problem with that.

"I think deep down he does care," his wife, Dee Dee, says. "He really cares.... He wants to be a hero to people."

Baseball, perhaps more than any other sport, has been about heroes. Ted Williams went to war—twice—and hit a home run in his last at bat; Hank Aaron hit home runs by night while stuffing the racist letters he received into a shoebox during the day. Sandy Koufax refused to pitch on Yom Kippur, and Reggie Jackson hit three home runs in a World Series game, and Cal Ripken played every inning every day. There is a good story about every baseball hero, and the best of those have always involved a child, a home run and a corny ending. Will you hit a home run for me, Babe? Sure I will, kid.

Albert Pujols has a baseball hero story like that. He has just about the most amazing baseball hero story you have ever heard. But does anyone want to hear a baseball hero story these days?

Pete's a fan of yours, Roy. He got a scrapbook that thick fulla pictures of you. Yesterday, they lemme go see him and I said to Pete you'd sock a homer for him in the game tonight. After that he sorta smiled and looked better. They gonna let him listen a little tonight, and I know if you will hit one it will save him.

"What did you say that for?" Roy said bitterly. "The way I am now I couldn't hit the side of a barn."

Holding to Roy's sleeves, Mike Barney fell to his knees. "Please, you gotta do it."

"Get up," Roy said. He pitied the guy and wanted to help yet was afraid what would happen if he couldn't. He didn't want that responsibility.

—from The Natural, by Bernard Malamud

THE THING Albert Pujols remembers is the weight. It's a helluva thing to carry your father. Forget the emotional part. First, you have to balance the weight just right. Then you have to walk at a steady pace. And, more than anything, you have to keep going, keep moving, even as the crushing weight of a man twice your size bears down.

Bienvenido Pujols was a great softball pitcher in the Dominican Republic. Albert idolized him; he would wear his father's jerseys around his neighborhood in Santo Domingo. After a softball game was over, Bienvenido often stayed around with his friends, had a few drinks. When Bienvenido was done, Albert would drag and carry his father back to the house. Albert was 10 years old.

The memory does not haunt him—Albert Pujols still idolizes his father. Rather, it explains him. "God made me older," Albert says, and this is the defining quality of his life. At every stage, you will find people who marvel (or gripe) about how old Albert Pujols seems. It was that way when he was 18 and he played high school baseball in Independence, Mo., Harry Truman's hometown. Opposing coaches walked Pujols 55 of the 88 times he came to the plate that year. They walked him out of respect, of course, but they also walked him in protest. They did not believe their pitchers should have to throw to a grown man. Albert hit eight homers in the 33 at bats he was given; one of those crashed off a second-story air conditioner some 450 feet from home plate. That did not dissuade anyone from believing Pujols was older than 18.

"It wasn't my age," Pujols says. "It was the way I grew up." An only child, he was primarily raised by his grandmother America Pujols and by 10 uncles and aunts he still calls his brothers and sisters. He grew up on baseball, lived the archetypal life of a Dominican boy. He remembers playing catch with limes, using a glove made from a milk carton, playing in games with players four and five years older.

"Pitchers were throwing 90 miles per hour, 93 miles per hour," he says. "When you're 13 years old, that's not that easy."

Baseball, though, was the easy part. He felt like a man on the baseball diamond. Pujols still talks emotionally about how lonely he felt after he and his father moved to Missouri, where his paternal grandmother had settled, when he was 16. He can still feel the torment of sitting in a classroom across from his English tutor, Portia Stanke—"She didn't know any Spanish, and I didn't know any English," he says—and wishing he were anyplace else in the world.

It wasn't like that on the baseball field. His first day at Fort Osage High, his new baseball coach, David Fry, tried to speak to Pujols using Albert's cousin as interpreter. Pujols says, "I told my cousin, 'Tell him that I am here to play baseball. Let's go play. I'm not here to talk about anything.'"

His rise to the big leagues is now baseball lore. He hit like crazy in high school when pitchers actually gave him a chance—"I put up sick numbers," Pujols says. "I was a monster"—but he did not even make The Kansas City Star's first-team all-metro baseball team. He went to Maple Woods Community College in Kansas City, Mo., and in his first game he homered and made an unassisted triple play at shortstop, then his regular position. After a breathtaking 1999 season there (.461 with 22 homers), he did not get drafted until the 13th round by the St. Louis Cardinals that June.

"We all saw Albert about the same way," says Allard Baird, who was then general manager of the Kansas City Royals. "We weren't sure he had a position. He didn't have a great baseball body. We all saw him the same way, and we were all wrong."

They weren't just wrong. They were spectacularly wrong. It isn't as though Pujols made himself into a great player after he signed with the Cardinals. He was a finished product. He was older than his years. He played just one season in the minor leagues, as a third baseman, and he was so overwhelming that at the end of that season the Cardinals jumped him from A ball to Triple A, where he hit .367 in the Pacific Coast League playoffs and was named the postseason MVP. The next spring, he was a nonroster invitee to Cardinals training camp, and he was so impressive that within days manager Tony La Russa was telling St. Louis Post-Dispatch columnist Bernie Miklasz, "I've never seen anyone quite like him."

In 2001, playing four positions, Pujols had one of the greatest rookie seasons in history. He hit .329 with 47 doubles, 37 homers, 130 RBIs and 112 runs scored. No rookie had put up numbers like that since his Cardinals teammate Mark McGwire did with the Oakland A's more than a decade earlier.

Pujols has been at least as good every year since. He says he judges himself not by his best seasons, but by his worst. The thing is, it's almost impossible to pick Pujols's worst season out of a lineup. Pick any season you want. It's fair to say that Pujols's worst big league season, repeated over an entire career, would get him elected into the Baseball Hall of Fame on the first ballot. He's like pizza: Even when he's bad, he's good.

It is more than his offense. He has made himself into a defensive marvel. Baseball analyst John Dewan has invented a video-based defensive rating system that breaks down every play a defender makes. Since its creation three years ago, the system has ranked Pujols the best defensive first baseman in the National League in each season.

And it's more than his offense and defense. He runs the bases aggressively and successfully, especially for a man with below-average speed. And he is selfless. When Cardinals third baseman Troy Glaus had to undergo shoulder surgery in January, Pujols went to La Russa and said he would play third base if the team needed him there. "I told him, 'No, that's O.K. I don't think we want to mess with you,'" La Russa says. "But he was absolutely serious. That's the kind of guy Albert is. He would do anything for this team."

Nobody in the sport works harder than Albert Pujols. But, again, playing baseball hasn't been the difficult part.

"I don't want to sound cocky or arrogant, but I was always great at this game," Pujols says. "I was a little disappointed that I got drafted in the 13th round and all that. They can say what they want now, but I always put up the numbers. It doesn't matter. It made me hungry. Everything happens in God's time."

"In 1971 I went to Orthopedic Hospital in Los Angeles to visit a boy named Ricky Williams. The boy just had an operation to remove the lower part of a leg, and he was in a bad way. It was a hollow feeling seeing him there on the bed. His mother said, 'Thank you for coming.' The doctors said he had an 18% chance of living. He was heavily sedated.

"I took his small hand in mine. His mother said, 'Ricky, Steve Garvey's here.'

"And I started to feel a little squeeze from that 10-year-old's hand. He started opening his eyes. Although he couldn't talk, when he opened his eyes it also opened mine. I could feel the strength in that little boy's hand. I knew then that Steve Garvey had a place."

—Steve Garvey, from a 1975 SI story, Born to Be a Dodger

IN ST. LOUIS, they still call Stan Musial the Man. Musial signed every autograph. He went to opposing clubhouses to visit pitchers he'd hit with line drives. He helped even opposing hitters with their batting troubles. He smoked under stairwells so kids would not see him (and then, realizing that there were kids under stairwells too, he quit smoking). He was and is, in every way, the Man.

In St. Louis they now call Albert Pujols El Hombre. That translates to the Man.

"Of course, Stan and Albert are a lot alike," says Musial's longtime friend and Hall of Fame second baseman Red Schoendienst. "The great ones are all a lot alike. They both love to hit. And they both are good people on and off the field. That matters."

This is where Albert gets emotional. This does matter to him. He believes deeply that God has given him the baseball platform to do good work. He met his wife, Dee Dee, when he was just 18 years old. She thought he was 21—they met in a Kansas City dance club that was for people 21 and older. On their first date he admitted being only 18. She said that she had a baby daughter, Isabella, who had been born with Down syndrome. He was in high school, still a ways from the majors. They fell in love fast.

In those early years, Albert would babysit Isabella while Dee Dee worked one of her three jobs. She got him a job in a pizzeria, and he would dutifully give her every penny he made. When Pujols was drafted so low, he briefly considered giving up baseball and getting a job so he could help support Dee Dee and Isabella. After his one season in the minors, he got a part-time catering job at a Kansas City--area country club. "We didn't have any money," Albert says. "It was hard." They spent $150 on their wedding. Their honeymoon was in Peoria, Albert's first minor league stop.

Of course, this is a common tale—the story of a young couple trying to make it in baseball—but what strikes Dee Dee is how Albert seemed entirely driven to be something more than just a baseball star. He did not drink. He would not even be in the same room as a smoker. He did not get tattoos. He never wore an earring. He wasn't interested in going out with the boys. He played baseball, and he went to church, and that seemed about all that interested him.

"I make fun of him all the time," Dee Dee says. "It's like he's as pure a guy as you could possibly get."

And that's why she really wants people to believe in her husband. Like she believes in him. Last year, Pujols won the Roberto Clemente Award, which is given to the major league player who "best exemplifies the game of baseball." Clemente, of course, died in a plane crash in 1972 while bringing supplies to earthquake-torn Nicaragua. Pujols, a two-time National League MVP, says it is the most meaningful award he has ever won, and in his speech he said that if he could ask one question of the great Clemente, it would not be about his brilliant arm, or how he paved the way for Latin American players, or even about his prodigious hitting. No, Pujols said, his one question would be, "Why did you go?"

And Pujols said, "I think I know the answer. He felt a responsibility. I feel that responsibility too."

Together, through the Pujols Family Foundation, Albert and Dee Dee have worked to raise money and the spirits of people with Down syndrome. Together, they have brought eye doctors and dentists and beds to villages in the Dominican Republic—Dee Dee remembers presenting beds to a mother of five who had been sleeping on straw and filth, and the tears in the woman's eyes because she had never been given something new. She remembers the tears in Albert's eyes too.

"If he ever got involved in that [steroid] stuff, I would be the first one to kill him," Dee Dee says suddenly.

She would not be the only one to be brokenhearted. Albert Pujols knows this. It is why he felt so betrayed when a local television station sent a crew to his St. Louis restaurant to follow up on the charge that Pujols was named in baseball's Mitchell Report, the findings of a 20-month-long investigation into the use of performance-enhancing drugs in the sport. Pujols's name was, in fact, not in the report. "They tried to ruin my image," he says.

He has constantly denied using steroids. His reasoning has stayed consistent: "I fear God too much to do any stupid thing like that." He also knows that more or less every player has denied using steroids. "We are under a dark cloud," he says. "Nobody believes anything [players say]."

And that takes us all the way back to the point: Albert Pujols knows that people, many people, do not believe him. He knows that some bloggers out there simply assume that he has been using—if you Google "Albert Pujols" and "steroids" you will get about 100,000 hits—and he knows that talk-radio hosts have spent time breaking down his 6'3", 230-pound physique. He knows that by putting up good numbers, he gives many people all the evidence they need.

So how can you be a baseball hero in 2009?

"You know how I want people to remember me?" Pujols asks. "I don't want to be remembered as the best baseball player ever. I want to be remembered as a great guy who loved the Lord, loved to serve the community and who gave back. That's the guy I want to be remembered as when I'm done wearing this uniform. That's from the bottom of my heart."

KRAMER: It's about a little boy in a hospital. I was wondering if you could do something to lift his spirits.

PAUL O'NEILL: Sure, I could help you there.

KRAMER: Sure, well, I promised you would hit him two home runs.

O'NEILL: Say what?

KRAMER: You know. A couple of dingers.

O'NEILL: You promised a kid in the hospital that I would hit two home runs?

KRAMER: Yeah. Well, no good?

O'NEILL: Yeah, that's no good. It's terrible. You don't hit home runs like that. It's hard to hit home runs. And where the heck did you get two from?

KRAMER: Two is better than one.

—scene from Seinfeld

SO HERE'S that amazing Albert Pujols baseball hero story. Every year in St. Louis, there is a Buddy Walk to raise money and awareness for the National Down Syndrome Society. Pujols is the chairman of the St. Louis Buddy Walk, and every so often, as he fulfills his duties, a child with Down syndrome will ask him to hit a home run. Actually, kids ask him just about every year.

In 2002, 10-year-old Kathleen Mertz threw out the first pitch to Pujols on Buddy Walk Day. As he walked over to give her the signed ball, she said, "Hey, Albert, hit me a home run."

In the first inning he blasted a long homer off Houston's Kirk Saarloos.

In 2003 Niki Cunningham threw out the first pitch on Buddy Walk Day. Of course, she also asked Albert to hit her a home run. In the 13th inning Pujols crushed a walk-off dinger against Florida's Dan Miceli.

In 2006 Pujols found himself swamped with home run requests as he strolled with the crowd during the Buddy Walk. One after another, kids shouted at him, "Hey, Albert, hit a home run for me." "You're my hero." "You've got to hit a homer for me, El Hombre." That night, he faced Pittsburgh's Ian Snell, and Pujols did not waste any time. He hit a home run in the first inning. Then, in the third inning, he faced Snell again, and he hit another. In the fifth inning, he faced Snell one more time. And he homered again—Pujols drilled this one about 450 feet.

"I thought it was going to hit the St. Louis Arch out there," Snell said to reporters after the game. "I wanted to go high-five him. That's unreal. That's like Superman playing baseball."

Pujols knows that he cannot make people believe him. It is like Dee Dee says: "People just have to make up their own minds."

Last year, Buddy Walk was on a Sunday afternoon in September. The Cardinals were out of the race. It was a perfect day for La Russa to give Pujols a rest. That's exactly what La Russa had done on Buddy Walk Day the year before. This time, though, La Russa saw all the families walking around the stadium before the game, and he knew that Pujols had to play. He had a feeling too.

"The guy can do anything," La Russa says.

So what happened? What do you think happened? First inning, Albert Pujols hit another home run for another child on another Buddy Day. Of course he did. He has now hit six home runs for children. That has to be a big league record. There are things we do not know about Pujols, things we cannot know, but the question really is this: How much fun is it if you cannot believe?

[CandlestickBum]

Speculation....tsk, tsk.

Chew on this....from the latest issue of SI....

First inning, Albert Pujols hit another home run for another child on another Buddy Day. Of course he did. He has now hit six home runs for children. That has to be a big league record. There are things we do not know about Pujols, things we cannot know, but the question really is this: How much fun is it if you cannot believe?



Damn, why hasn't he been sainted already!?

The travesty of it! :hissyfit: :crazy

[bluezebra]

He was also in the process of switching from pitcher to position player.

The Babe had 432 At Bats in 1919, not exactly pitchers' stats. He had 457 in 1920, only 25 more At Bats.

Bob

[STLCards2]

Sure, sure, but anybody who's willing to swear by the innocence of any player during this era, especially anyone noted for, say, power hitting, is purposely obtuse.

Basically all players between 1990 and 2005 are suspect. And there were athletes using roids even earlier than that.
Hell, to be really cynical, players have been on one thing or another since the '50's.

Where did I say that Lance and Albert weren't on steroids (much less swear to it)? All I said is that neither have a traditional lumberjack body, and Albert was bigger in College. At the very most, that eluded to the fact that using wieght is not a good steroid indicator by itself. The words "steroid" wasn't even in the post. They could very well be on steroids - but it isn't becasue they are big- that was my point.

I don't get into the steroids blame game period - I have made enough mistakes in my own life to not feel right about going on daily witch hunts regarding other people's alleged mistakes.

[CandlestickBum]

Where did I say that Lance and Albert weren't on steroids (much less swear to it)? All I said is that neither have a traditional lumberjack body, and Albert was bigger in College.

I wasn't accusing you of anything, just expanding on what you wrote. It's call adding to the conversation.

Sorry you took it wrong. :rainy: