I wish baseball would get rid of their rule about All-Star Game managers

[HomeRunHomer]

Sorry I haven't posted in a while, but I've been busy with college.

Anyway,

I have always felt that the MLB All-Star game's rule where the managers in last year's World Series automatically are the managers for the Midsummer Classic is a bit ridiculous.

If we used that format last season, Mike Scioscia and Lou Piniella would have been in charge at the Midsummer Classic.

Last year, Rockies manager Clint Hurdle was the N.L. manager, even though his Rockies were 18 games under .500 at midseason!

Another example- 1998. Jim Leyland's Marlins were 23 games below 500 and 26.5 games out of the division lead at the All-Star break that year.

I wish MLB could do what the NBA and NHL do- allow the coaches of the team with their respective league's best record do so.

Maybe, just maybe, the NL could actually WIN a Midsummer Classic if managers with better records were allowed to do so.

Who knows how history may have changed? Perhaps if Bobby Cox was managing the National League in the 2002 All-Star Game instead of Bob Brenly (Atlanta had the NL's top record at the break, while Arizona didn't even lead their own division), maybe there would have been no tie!

[SamtheBravesFan]

I don't see why you drag the NBA and the NHL into this argument. Their All-Star Games are loose and fluid score-fests. The coaches are little more than figureheads. Sure, they'll call plays, but it's more about improvising by the players to entertain the fans.

It's strange how you bring up Bobby Cox in the argument; his All-Star record is pretty pitiful (1-4) and that includes 1992 and 1993, three games before the AL went on their 13-game winning streak.

I believe your format of managing would not substantially change results for the National League.

[NYMets523]

The real problem is the players who get into the ASG.

[DodgerBlue8188]

The real problem is the players who get into the ASG.

Agreed, as long as a player is allowed to represent each team and fans vote you'll always have problems.

[Mattingly]

Agreed, as long as a player is allowed to represent each team and fans vote you'll always have problems.
For the manager issue mentioned by the thread starter, I'm still wondering what happens if a manager switches leagues, or isn't managing, after a WS appearance. When Dusty Baker went to the Cubs after losing the 2002 WS while with the Giants (to Anaheim), he still represented the NL as manager of the 2003 ASG. I don't mind the WS managers getting the nod for the ASG.

I consider the All-Star Game to now be a popularity contest, especally after Internet voting from Japan insured that Ichiro Suzuki got such a high percentage of votes, and teams openly campaigned on their mlb.com sites for some of their players' inclusion. People with 20 email accounts for fantasy baseball used those to vote many times for the same players.

I'm also not too thrilled that a full-time DH who rarely even fields in AL parks *cough-cough David Ortiz cough-cough* (and can barely do so) is voted in as a starting 1st baseman in an NL park.

I'm on the fence about the whole "each team gets a player there" thing. The occasional purist in me will make a snide comment that if nobody on the team is good enough, then let them all stay home. Since baseball is a business, that team's sole player may be highly underrated, and low-payroll teams could use the exposure, presuming the player gets a few solid at bats or innings pitched, and shines doing so.

I'm still not too thrilled about the whole game's outcome determining Home Field Advantage for the next WS, my biggest ASG pet peeve. However, after the 2002 tied game, I figured that Bud Lite must've gone on sale (wasn't worth that much anyway), and both Torre and Brenley didn't look like geniuses by running out of pitchers. Unlike in the NBA, once they're out of the game, they were unable to return, which is rule which could be bypassed on that day, I'd suggest.

Now if managers could refrain from using so many of their own players as reserves (helllllloooooo, Joe Torre, several times over), that would lead to less resentment from players who were actually voted in but had limited playing time. Sometimes that resentment actually results in players trying to insure that the manager doesn't return to the WS the following year, as then Mariners reliever Jeff Nelson (an ex-Yankee) once mentioned.

/rant :D

[Mattingly]

The real problem is the players who get into the ASG.
Could you elaborate upon this point a little, please? Thanks.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Could you elaborate upon this point a little, please? Thanks.

Multiple all-star Scott Cooper.

I'm only speaking for myself, but with managers getting to pick their reserves as well as every team getting a representative, we see a lot of cronyism and a lot of deserving players staying home for this "honor."

[NYMets523]

Could you elaborate upon this point a little, please? Thanks.

There are players who go to the All-Star game that shouldn't. Like last year, I think Jose Reyes deserved the nod over Miguel Tejada.

[Mattingly]

Multiple all-star Scott Cooper.

I'm only speaking for myself, but with managers getting to pick their reserves as well as every team getting a representative, we see a lot of cronyism and a lot of deserving players staying home for this "honor."
I'll have to look up Scott Cooper's stats and story before I can discuss him.

I think that managers getting to pick their own reserves is similar to, but not equal to HoF players picking their own cap. The manager thing encourages homerism, and the HoF thing encourages backdoor deals with teams (a la Winfield and Boggs).

That's why I'd mentioned Joe Torre, since around 2000 or 2002, he picked *EIGHT* Yankees, so in addition to Rivera (an easy choice, along with Jeter), I think that the entire infield went. That was a very difficult thing to defend, and even the tabloids (Daily News & Post) were critical of Torre on this.

I don't remember the exact year (likely 2002), but I remember once, Posada was the starting backstop and Boston's Varitek was the reserve. I can understand 5, possibly 6 innings of Posada, but Jason Varitek did not get a single AB nor anytime as backstop. Why did Posada have to catch all 9 innings for an exhibition game, the only one whose stats go onto someone's baseball card?

I think Torre over-favored Jeter too, despite Garciaarra, Rodriguez, Tejada all being top shortstops. That position was so loaded, I remember some had to start at 2B.

The only cronyism I like is when Clemens was suppose to retire after 2003, so Zito gave up his spot. Then Clemens miraculously unretires, undoing the good and respectable deed which Zito gave him.

Before all the Internet voting and email registration, who used to pick the players 10-20 years ago? Managers? BBWAA members? I'd like to know this, if you can. :)

[DTF955]

10-20 years ago, it was the fans voting in starters, managers picking reserves. it was all managers for a while (1958 or so through the 1960s or so) after the Reds' fans were foudn to have stuffed and ballot box in 1957 (or was it 1956?) So, the Ichiro thing has happened before.

Okay, so if fans voting inspires popularity, and manager or player voting inspires cronyism, who is left? Sportswriters? 12 million impartial jurors? :waving Some farmer's chicken who pecks seeds on the "right" ones? :D (You know, like those storie s you hear once in a while of an animal who "guessed right" on lottery numbers or something.)

I agree about poor and/or small market teams having more exposure if their players get chosen, but I don't see why we can't pick an All-Star team, then if some teams are left out, pick a guy from that team as an extra player? We do it with retiring players sometimes. (I think I recall it happeninga nyway, like with Rpiken, but I could be wrong.) Or, expand the rosters to 40; after all, that's what they can be in September.

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

The first thing I'd change about the ASG is the fact that the winning league gets home field advantage in the World Series. I may be alone on this, but I'd prefer that it be a meaningless exhibition for bragging rights and nothing else. That way we'd get to see things like Ted Williams challenging Rip Sewell to throw the eephus pitch and Larry Walker turning his helmet around and trying to hit righty against Randy Johnson again. Those were the type of things that I enjoyed about the All-Star game - examples of the best players in the game enjoying themselves, and seeing how they matched up with each other in a fun, casual contest. The regular season and pennant races are competitive enough.

[KCGHOST]

I've never seen a manager win an ASG yet, so who cares??

I just wish they played the game like they did in the 1950's and 60's. Those were serious, hard fought games.

And, of course, determining home field advantage by who wins the ASG is just ridiculous.

[Paulypal]

I've never seen a manager win an ASG yet, so who cares??

I just wish they played the game like they did in the 1950's and 60's. Those were serious, hard fought games.

And, of course, determining home field advantage by who wins the ASG is just ridiculous.

Agree on all points.

I remember the games in the 1970's the players wanted to win because they had pride in their league. The difference now is that players change leagues so that "league pride" is diminished.

[Mattingly]

Agree on all points.

I remember the games in the 1970's the players wanted to win because they had pride in their league. The difference now is that players change leagues so that "league pride" is diminished.
Teams will also trade their top players like Santana or Manny to the other league to prevent having to face them again that season, and accept lesser players to a team in the other league.

What were the earlier All-Star Games like for you? Please describe everything, from the years, where you were, and the intensity of the games themselves.

[Mattingly]

Agreed, as long as a player is allowed to represent each team and fans vote you'll always have problems.
So what would your solution to this be? Please describe how they would solve this problem.

Thanks. :)

[Brad Harris]

I would suggest an alternate change and that is the existing managers and coaches either vote one of their own to manage the game and/or the Commissioner's office selects among former managers to represent the leagues so that existing managers aren't distracted with the pending roster management of an exhibition team they're not responsible for on any other day. Who wouldn't like to see Whitey Herzog, Davey Johnson, Tom Kelly, Cito Gaston, Bobby Valentine, Tommy Lasorda, Sparky Anderson or Dick Williams in a uniform one more time? In addition, these guys generally don't have a vested interest in playing or protecting their own players, removing that as a consideration.

[DownUnderDodger]

I've never seen a manager win an ASG yet, so who cares??

I just wish they played the game like they did in the 1950's and 60's. Those were serious, hard fought games.

And, of course, determining home field advantage by who wins the ASG is just ridiculous.
I cannot agree more on points 1 & 3.

I don't think a manager has any influence on an ASG game which is an exhibition game at best and has not real tactics. From what I can see every (or almost every) player gets a start regardless of the way the game is going, so where does a manager really have any bearing on the game?

As for the winner of the ASG determining the home team for the WS, that is one of the biggest farces in world sport. How a fan selected exhibition game can determine which team has the advantage in the biggest baseball final series in the world is beyond comprehension.

In regard to point 2, I will respectfully leave discussion on that aspect to those who were around at the time and are far more knowledgeable about that aspect of the game.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I cannot agree more on points 1 & 3.

I don't think a manager has any influence on an ASG game which is an exhibition game at best and has not real tactics. From what I can see every (or almost every) player gets a start regardless of the way the game is going, so where does a manager really have any bearing on the game?

As for the winner of the ASG determining the home team for the WS, that is one of the biggest farces in world sport. How a fan selected exhibition game can determine which team has the advantage in the biggest baseball final series in the world is beyond comprehension.

In regard to point 2, I will respectfully leave discussion on that aspect to those who were around at the time and are far more knowledgeable about that aspect of the game.

Well, there was a certain ASG a few years back that ended in a tie . . .

The manager in the ASG is a lineup holder. That's pretty much it. Rewarding the manager with the best team the previous season as opposed to the manager with the best team at the halfway mark isn't that big of a deal to me. It's not like there's no reason why the manager was chosen, they're picked in baseball for actual results, not just promise of eventual results.

Isn't Cito Gaston the current manager of the Blue Jays?

[Rennie Stennett]

Comish who makes up rules as he goes along.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Comish who makes up rules as he goes along.

What should one do when forced to make an unprecedented decision?

[baseball junkie]

I wish MLB would get rid of the All-Star game. It has become a joke: one player has to represent each franchise whether he's worthy or not; an "exhibition game" decides home field advantage in the World Series; the managers are rewarded for losing; players have been seriously injured in this game that should mean nothing; it's no fun at all to watch.

I enjoy watching the futures all star game. And the Pacific and International League games. Sometimes, I even enjoy the home run derby -- rarely. The game itself is worthless

I say just wait till the end of the season and name an All-Pro team, based on fan, press and coach voting. Leave the week off in place to let MLB players rest up. Just my opinion ...

[DTF955]

With all the off days they've had in the playoffs lately, you could play the All-Star Game, without players from the World Series teams, in the days before the World Series, like the NFL having its Pro Bowl before the Super Bowl next year. that wuld keep baseball int he public eye, let it go back to just an exhibition, and let non-Series players (and any Series ones who wanted to play) shine. :D

Wow, that's scary; I meant to write that post as a joke, and it actually made sense. :ooo: