11 yr old swing [Archive] - Baseball Fever

HYP

03-01-2009, 07:52 PM

I'm pretty happy with his swing so far except for how high he brings his front foot up during the stride. Is there anything I'm missing?
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm151/southsiders05/marcus23.gif

What I would do is to try to get him to load his barrel more upright. His barrel drops down to get on plane with the shoulders and then he turns hard with the shoulders to get it going.

He also loads his hands as he loads the lowerbody.

I would try to get the barrel more vertical. As he strides forward have him load his hands back at that time, keeping the barrel up. when it is time to launch, bring the barrel all the way around to contact. No stops, no pauses, no hesitation.

I wouldn't worry about the high leg kick. In fact right now I wouldn't touch his lowerbody. Fix the loading sequence and see what happens.

His swing probably produces some big hits and is pretty good. But it appears that what he is doing won't allow for much adjustability.

SouthSiders05

03-01-2009, 09:20 PM

HYP

03-01-2009, 11:26 PM

Thanks for the input! I thought his load was alright, but I see what you're saying. It does look like he traps the bat behind behind his neck (not sure if this is what you meant by "get the barrel upright")

Not completely. I don't see the barrel trapped so much.

Without getting to long winded. He loads the barrel in the plane of the shoulders and then he turns his hips and shoulders as a unit to swing. Not effecient stretch/resistance.

Keeping the barrel "upright" will load the barrel outside of the plane of the shoulders and as he turns it all the way around to the ball he will add resistance to his hips creating more stretch between upper and lower body. This will hold the shoulders closed keeping them from turning with the hips.

Here is a clip of my son. This is the end of the Happy Gilmore drill. Watch how the barrel is upright and notice the stretch between upper and lower. IMO my son needs to learn to turn the barrel better which will give him more explosion with the barrel.

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/trenthgswing.gif

Please no comments from others about my sons mechanics. Do not want to hijack this thread.

StraightGrain11

03-01-2009, 11:53 PM

I'm pretty happy with his swing so far except for how high he brings his front foot up during the stride. Is there anything I'm missing?
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm151/southsiders05/marcus23.gif

I don't see any problem with his loading sequence - it's very good, in fact.
However, I do see hips that open up very early (too early, for me atleast), and I see way too much shoulders and not enough hands - he's trying to pull his arms and the bat thru with his shoulders rather than use his hands to engage the bat in the swing.
So, I guess, I see exactly OPPOSITE what HYP sees....
This confuses me a little, also:
He also loads his hands as he loads the lowerbody.
Out of curiousity HYP, when would the hands load, then? :noidea

HYP

03-02-2009, 12:00 AM

I don't see any problem with his loading sequence - it's very good, in fact.
However, I do see hips that open up very early (too early, for me atleast), and I see way too much shoulders and not enough hands - he's trying to pull his arms and the bat thru with his shoulders rather than use his hands to engage the bat in the swing.
So, I guess, I see exactly OPPOSITE what HYP sees....:noidea

You are right about seeing something different then me as far as the hips. His hips don't open to early. The problem is the shoulders turn with the hips. There is no resistance from the upperbody.

We agree about the shoulders pulling the bat. That's what I said earlier.

What I would do is to try to get him to load his barrel more upright. His barrel drops down to get on plane with the shoulders and then he turns hard with the shoulders to get it going.

What I did was to try to offer him something that could fix the issue.

HYP

03-02-2009, 12:02 AM

I don't see any problem with his loading sequence - it's very good, in fact.
However, I do see hips that open up very early (too early, for me atleast), and I see way too much shoulders and not enough hands - he's trying to pull his arms and the bat thru with his shoulders rather than use his hands to engage the bat in the swing.
So, I guess, I see exactly OPPOSITE what HYP sees....
This confuses me a little, also:

Out of curiousity HYP, when would the hands load, then? :noidea

As the stride foot is going forward. The hands start to load. As the hips start to turn. Full hand load.

When does he load his hands?

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Bonds4.gif

or him

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Kent.gif

StraightGrain11

03-02-2009, 12:13 AM

As the stride foot is going forward. as the hips start to turn.

I see...and no, I don't agree with that. Carlos Delgado is one of the few hitters I actually see do this - and I don't agree with it. The hips should not be turning as the foot is striding, the hips need to stay closed as the food is striding and should begin opening/turning when the toe hits the ground.

http://coachdm.hittingillustrated.com/clips/bruce_1b_side.gif
http://i30.tinypic.com/1znyhqo.gif http://i26.tinypic.com/2jdgu9g.gif

StraightGrain11

03-02-2009, 12:24 AM

As the stride foot is going forward. The hands start to load. As the hips start to turn. Full hand load.

When does he load his hands?

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Bonds4.gif

or him

http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/Kent.gif

What about him?
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43759&stc=1&d=1212513877

I don't see the lower body load in either of those two clips - all I see is a stride and separation. Which means the only point the hands have any time to load is during the stride. The problem is, you're comparing two different swing styles. This kid does not swing like Bonds, he swings more like Bruce or Lee or Rodriguez. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

HYP

03-02-2009, 12:27 AM

I see...and no, I don't agree with that. Carlos Delgado is one of the few hitters I actually see do this - and I don't agree with it. The hips should not be turning as the foot is striding, the hips need to stay closed as the food is striding and should begin opening/turning when the toe hits the ground.

http://coachdm.hittingillustrated.com/clips/bruce_1b_side.gif
http://i30.tinypic.com/1znyhqo.gif http://i26.tinypic.com/2jdgu9g.gif

Your original question was, so when do the hands load?

But IMO the hips are starting to turn into toe touch.

HYP

03-02-2009, 12:47 AM

What about him?
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43759&stc=1&d=1212513877

I don't see the lower body load in either of those two clips - all I see is a stride and separation. Which means the only point the hands have any time to load is during the stride. The problem is, you're comparing two different swing styles. This kid does not swing like Bonds, he swings more like Bruce or Lee or Rodriguez. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

You tell me.

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Utley5load.gif

Swing Coach

03-02-2009, 07:14 AM

You have to hit "THROUGH" the ball at some point. Your hands have to become active and help whip the bat through the ball. Thus, you get no extension in this posted swing whatsoever. I have had hitters like this and when I hold the bat at lag position with my hand and tell the hitter to whip it forward...they CAN'T do it because they don't know how to use their hands in this part of the swing. About 500 swings against a heavy bag will help this.

SC

Mark H

03-02-2009, 10:22 AM

I see...and no, I don't agree with that. Carlos Delgado is one of the few hitters I actually see do this - and I don't agree with it. The hips should not be turning as the foot is striding, the hips need to stay closed as the food is striding and should begin opening/turning when the toe hits the ground.

http://coachdm.hittingillustrated.com/clips/bruce_1b_side.gif
http://i30.tinypic.com/1znyhqo.gif http://i26.tinypic.com/2jdgu9g.gif

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=10&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

How do you see this clip relative to your above comment?

Erik

03-02-2009, 10:29 AM

Looks like he allows his head and neck to get disconnected and the poor postural creation contributed to the fly ball .

EL

StraightGrain11

03-02-2009, 01:12 PM

You tell me.

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Utley5load.gif

Nice. I wish I had all the fancy equipment to do that stuff with, but I don't. And personally, I don't feel I need it. It HELPS, yes, but I don't need it.

As for that clip, if you feel that is the entire loading of the hands -the beginning and the end - then you have made your point, and you are right. I don't see it that way, however. I see his hands BEGIN to load as the knee starts up and back, and they continue/finish loading - as separation occurs - in the clip you've posted.

What it all boils down to, though, is rhythm. And that's a personal thing - it's your style.

StraightGrain11

03-02-2009, 01:20 PM

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=10&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

How do you see this clip relative to your above comment?

Mark, I would say that is a clip relevant to my point, thank you.
I've always felt that a good way to tell when the hips are iniating their rotation is when the heel drops. I see this as either the cause or result of hip rotation - which ever school of thought you subcribe to I will let determine how you see it. But that is an indicator I use. Why? Get up and try turning your hips WITHOUT dropping your front heel...you tell me.:think:

HYP

03-02-2009, 02:53 PM

Mark, I would say that is a clip relevant to my point, thank you.
I've always felt that a good way to tell when the hips are iniating their rotation is when the heel drops. I see this as either the cause or result of hip rotation - which ever school of thought you subcribe to I will let determine how you see it. But that is an indicator I use. Why? Get up and try turning your hips WITHOUT dropping your front heel...you tell me.:think:

Every time I swing a bat my hips start turning before my heel gets down.

If you wait to start your hips later you will be late.

HYP

03-02-2009, 03:02 PM

Nice. I wish I had all the fancy equipment to do that stuff with, but I don't. And personally, I don't feel I need it. It HELPS, yes, but I don't need it.

As for that clip, if you feel that is the entire loading of the hands -the beginning and the end - then you have made your point, and you are right. I don't see it that way, however. I see his hands BEGIN to load as the knee starts up and back, and they continue/finish loading - as separation occurs - in the clip you've posted.

What it all boils down to, though, is rhythm. And that's a personal thing - it's your style.

No fancy equipment, just a computer and jasc animation shop. Also, the ability to look at video and see what is happening.

If you are going to make determinations about when someone loads their hands or when they start rotating the hips. Then you may rethink not needing the "fancy" equipment.

The clip I posted was not the entire loading of the hands. I think I missed it by 2 frames. The hands start moving back as the lead knee is up and the weight sits and starts forward. I will try to get the actual frames corrected.

Better clip

http://www.graylon.hittingillustrated.com/Utley5load.gif

You are right it is style as to how you get there but it is more universal as to when they get there.

Mark H

03-02-2009, 03:14 PM

Mark, I would say that is a clip relevant to my point, thank you.
I've always felt that a good way to tell when the hips are iniating their rotation is when the heel drops. I see this as either the cause or result of hip rotation - which ever school of thought you subcribe to I will let determine how you see it. But that is an indicator I use. Why? Get up and try turning your hips WITHOUT dropping your front heel...you tell me.:think:

Are you saying the dropping of the front heel is coordinated with pelvic rotation or are you saying pelvic rotation is delayed till heel plant?

StraightGrain11

03-02-2009, 03:26 PM

Are you saying the dropping of the front heel is coordinated with pelvic rotation or are you saying pelvic rotation is delayed till heel plant?

Coordinated with.

Mark H

03-02-2009, 03:54 PM

OK then.

.

trucky941

03-02-2009, 04:01 PM

I'm pretty happy with his swing so far except for how high he brings his front foot up during the stride. Is there anything I'm missing?
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm151/southsiders05/marcus23.gif

What I would change is to lower his back elbow a little. By keeping his elbow down and closer to the middle of his chest he could start a back swing (trigger) to gain forward momentum. This could help him react to and hit to the opposite side of the field on an offspeed pitch. Stay loose and relaxed. Your body automaticlly tenses up when you swing and make contact. As far as the big leg lift. If he doesn't change that to a nice smooth stride or a smaller leg lift he will have problems with hitting offspeed pitches and would not be able to react to the pitch. He is also opening up his hips by doing that which looses a lot of power. One more thing.. Keep that back foot planted. Very key... Best of luck.

Mark H

03-02-2009, 04:16 PM

Not sure I follow you on the back foot planted thing? And maybe you could expand on the hip opening comment too.

trucky941

03-02-2009, 04:24 PM

Well as you see his back foot comes off the ground when he makes contact with the ball. If he was able to plant that back foot and push off it he would be able to generate more power and drive the ball up the middle. As far as the hips. It looks like he is pulling his hips out which could or might start to make him drag his bat which would result in lose of bat speed.

trucky941

03-02-2009, 04:45 PM

It already looks like he is dropping the head of the bag at the beginning of his swing. Short compact swing and full extension of his arms.

Mark H

03-02-2009, 04:46 PM

I see a lot of MLB players with their back foot off the ground at contact. I see all of them unweighting the back foot to some degree.

What do you make of the hip action as well as the back foot in this link that I just posted above? http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=10&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

trucky941

03-02-2009, 04:53 PM

Well his back foot is still on the ground. To me Soriano lifts his front leg but puts it right back from where it started. His front foot also doesn't spin out down to third base which gives resistance and more pop on the ball.

trucky941

03-02-2009, 04:55 PM

The hip action is good but like i said in the post before this is that his front foot does not spin which gives you resistance .

Mark H

03-02-2009, 05:09 PM

Soriano's back foot is up on his tip toe. No weight and no drive. Many do have their back foot completely off the ground at contact. A scan through past threads on here will help you there. Always compare anything anyone tells you, as well as what you believe, to slow motion video of the best.

trucky941

03-02-2009, 05:25 PM

ok I will. Thank you for your information.

Mark H

03-02-2009, 05:39 PM

You are entirely welcome. Thanks for your demeanor.

trucky941

03-02-2009, 05:51 PM

I am a type of person that is always looking to learn and get new ideas. I would love to put up a video of myself when I get the time. keep an eye out for it. Would love to get some info from everyone

SouthSiders05

03-03-2009, 09:23 AM

Thanks for the replies, I may not agree with all of them but I appreciate the input.

Baseball gLove

03-03-2009, 10:29 AM

SouthSiders05

03-03-2009, 11:22 AM

He is dropping his shoulder too much for the location of the ball. He needs to better align his shoulders to the plane of the ball. That swing might have been appropriate for a pitch down and inside, not for a pitch at the top of the zone.

Really? I didn't think it was too bad. I'll take a look I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time......and definately not the last

Baseball gLove

03-03-2009, 12:38 PM

Really? I didn't think it was too bad. I'll take a look I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time......and definately not the last

I thought you came here to learn? A shoulder/bat plane more level to the path of the ball can make a difference between a fly ball that gets caught or one that sails over the fence. He also does not get extension at contact to drive through the ball. Your kid looks like he will be a big boy, the question is when he is in high school do you want him to hit long fly balls that get caught or long homeruns? When my son was your son's age he was 4'10" 80 pounds and hit an opposite field homerun in all stars. Last spring as a 15 year old he was 5' 10" 140 pounds (with clothes on) hit 4 triples and 2 doubles in 4 games. A week later he hit 2 homeruns, one was pulled and sneaked over the 325 mark in left. The 2nd was a blast, everyone there knew it was not coming back. It went over center field easily clearing the 410 foot mark. He uses all of his body to swing. He is now 16 year old 6' 150 pounds. Jimmy Johnson batting coach for the Colorado Rookies really likes my son's swing. Mr. Johnson said that my son hits like a 6'4" 220 pounder.

HYP

03-03-2009, 12:45 PM

I thought you came here to learn? A shoulder/bat plane more level to the path of the ball can make a difference between a fly ball that gets caught and one that sails over the fence. He also does not get extension at contact to drive through the ball. Your kid looks like he will be a big boy, the question is when he is in high school do you want him to hit long fly balls that get caught or long homeruns? When my son was your son's age he was 4'10" 80 pounds and hit an opposite field homerun in all stars. Last spring as a 15 year old he was 5' 10" 140 pounds (with clothes on) hit 4 triples and 2 doubles in 4 games. A week later he hit 2 homeruns, one was pulled and sneaked over the 325 mark in left. The 2nd was a blast, that everyone there knew was gone, that went over center field easily clearing the 410 foot mark. He uses all of his body to swing. He is now 16 year old 6' 150 pounds. Jimmy Johnson batting coach for the Colorado Rookies really likes my son's swing. Mr. Johnson said that my son hits like a 6'4" 220 pounder.

How old is your son and would love to see video. especially of the 410' blast if you have any.

HYP

Mark H

03-03-2009, 01:01 PM

I look forward to that as well.

I'd say the swing plane started out perfect and then reacted to a ball tailing in if I had to guess.

Baseball gLove

03-03-2009, 02:39 PM

How old is your son and would love to see video. especially of the 410' blast if you have any.

HYP

I WISH!!!! He thinks my camera is bad luck. I had posted the 1st clip here in 2007 when he was 14 years old 5'3" 105 pounds and pulled a pitch hitting the fence left field gap 20 feet to the right of the 365 sign in left field about 370 feet . The 2nd clip is from early spring 2008 a line drive double to right gap. He is much more explosive now.

Oh, he is still 16 as per post you replied to. :D

Baseball gLove

03-03-2009, 02:44 PM

I look forward to that as well.

I'd say the swing plane started out perfect and then reacted to a ball tailing in if I had to guess.

You may be right, now that I look at it again. I didn't like how he bent over at the waist. He may have been making room for his hands to come through. May explain his lack of extension as well???

SouthSiders05

03-03-2009, 04:12 PM

[QUOTE=Baseball gLove;1447947]I thought you came here to learn?QUOTE]

I think you might have misunderstood my "Really?" it wasn't meant in a negative way just that I didn't initially see that. However, like I said I could be worng.

Mark H

03-03-2009, 05:11 PM

Swing on the right does look pretty good. What was it, a digital camera in movie mode? Sneak your camcorder in in Mom's purse and use the zoom for crying out loud. ;)

Baseball gLove

03-03-2009, 07:29 PM

Swing on the right does look pretty good. What was it, a digital camera in movie mode? Sneak your camcorder in in Mom's purse and use the zoom for crying out loud. ;)

The first one was a digital. The 2nd one was a camcorder. The GIF was too fast and I had to slow it down. Check your PM for a better view. His mom is a vice president and needs me to figure out how to fill out a W4.:hide:

Baseball gLove

03-03-2009, 07:32 PM

Erik

03-04-2009, 06:49 AM

You may be right, now that I look at it again. I didn't like how he bent over at the waist. He may have been making room for his hands to come through. May explain his lack of extension as well???

The posture fell apart with the head.

EL