1942 Best of Baseball Election

[jalbright]

This is our seventh election in this project. The entire rules follow.

This election will run through 11:59:59 PM EST March 13, 2009.

The prior election, and the ballots of the 1941 voters, are in this thread (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=87470)

[jalbright]

Rules

1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance, or only the first vote will be counted. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.

2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to meet a quorum in two of any four consecutive elections, the project will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.

3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.

4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.

5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.

6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the ballot is open. However, I request that you PM me (jalbright) to ensure that I am aware of the change(s) or make a separate posting in the voting thread. You must let me know the players involved in the changes at a minimum, but it would also help if you added their rankings (before and after). I cannot agree to be responsible for monitoring the thread for any changes voters might make. If I catch them, fine, but if I don't and am not notified, the official count will be what I have been notified of, not what is on the thread.

7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.

8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.

9) Each election will run for two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.

10) No one is ineligible, nor are players from any league ineligible. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project. Candidates will not lose eligiblity after becoming eligible except by being elected as either a contributor or player.

11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing this standard, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. However, voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.

12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.

13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration.

14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.

15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.

16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.

17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.

18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 3-2-1 or whatever is appropriate system. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, take those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.

19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.

20) I reserve the right to hold both 19th century and Negro League special elections in 2000 if we don't have a sufficient number in those categories by then. These elections probably will be limited to voters I feel are appropriately versed on the group of players to be considered. I do wish to only use this as a last resort, however, and only to ensure that those groups received what I regard as at least adequate bare minimum representation. I do not plan on sharing with you what I consider to meet those bare minimum standards, but I think that the numbers I am thinking of are well below the number of candidates that well informed observers believe are well qualified candidates from each group.

21) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.

22) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread

[jalbright]

There are no new contributors this year. The list of newly eligible players is:


Benton , Larry
Blue , Lu
Charleston , Oscar
Dugan , Joe
Leach , Freddy
O'Doul , Lefty
Rommel , Eddie
Smith , Earl


We are adding Albert Spinks to the contributor list this year.

[jalbright]

The 1941 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the 1941 election:


Player……………. votes pts
Santop , Louis 15 91
Wright , George 13 91
Burkett , Jesse 16 90
White , Deacon 13 86
Dahlen , Bill 14 82
Hines , Paul 9 59
Rusie , Amos 12 58
Barnes , Ross 10 56
Ward , John M. 8 54
Sisler , George 8 46
Collins , Jimmy 6 39
Jackson , Joe 4 38
Clarke , Fred 7 33
Start , Joe 5 21
Thompson , S 3 21
Sutton , Ezra 2 20
Bennett , C 3 19
Wheat , Zack 4 18
Radbourn , C 3 17
Magee , Sherry 4 13
Galvin , Pud 2 10
Grant , Frank 1 10
Johnson , G 2 10
Carey , Max 2 9
Caruthers , B 2 8
Keeler , Willie 3 8
Pennock, Herb 1 6
Stovey , Harry 2 5
Roush , Edd 1 4
Spalding , Al 1 4
Flick , Elmer 1 3
Waddell , Rube 1 3
Browning , Pete 1 1
Gore , George 1 1
Hill , Pete... 1 1


The 1941 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the 1941 election:


Contributor……. votes pts
Hulbert , W 14 44
Spalding , Al 16 40
Cartwright , A 9 39
Johnson , Ban 13 39
Creighton , Jim 6 21
Landis , K 5 11
Richter , F 5 7
Klem, Bill.... 2 4
Reach , A. J. 1 3
Taylor , C. I. 1 3
Clarke , Fred 1 2
Conlan , C 1 2
Pearce, Dickey 1 2


I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.

[jalbright]

Members of the Best of Baseball Hall:

Players

Pete Alexander
Cap Anson
Frank Baker
Dan Brouthers
Mordecai Brown
John Clarkson
Ty Cobb
Eddie Collins
Roger Connor
Sam Crawford
George Davis
Ed Delahanty
Buck Ewing
Billy Hamilton
Harry Heilmann
Rogers Hornsby
Walter Johnson
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Nap LaJoie
Pop Lloyd
Christy Mathewson
Kid Nichols
Jim O'Rourke
Eddie Plank
Bullet Joe Rogan
Babe Ruth
Tris Speaker
Cristobal Torriente
Honus Wagner
Ed Walsh
Smoky Joe Williams
Cy Young


Contributors

Doc Adams
Henry Chadwick
Rube Foster
Connie Mack
John McGraw
Harry Wright


These folks are no longer eligible for any elections.

[jalbright]

The complete list of eligible players:


Adams , Babe
Adams , Sparky
Altrock , Nick
Archer , Jimmy
Austin , Jimmy
Bancroft , Dave
Barnes , Ross
Barry , Jack
Battin , Joe
Beaumont , Ginger
Beckley , Jake
Bender , Chief
Bennett , Charlie
Benton , Larry
Bergen , Marty
Bigbee , Carson
Blades , Ray
Blue , Lu
Bodie , Ping
Boley , Joe
Bond , Tommy
Bradley , Bill
Breitenstein , Ted
Bresnahan , Roger
Browning , Pete
Burkett , Jesse
Burns , George J.
Bush , Joe
Bush , Donie
Cadore , Leon
Camnitz , Howie
Carey , Max
Carrigan , Bill
Caruthers , Bob
Chance , Frank
Chapman , Ray
Charleston , Oscar
Chase , Hal
Chesbro , Jack
Childs , Cupid
Cicotte , Eddie
Clarke , Fred
Coakley , Andy
Collins , Jimmy
Collins , Shano
Conroy , Wid
Coombs , Jack
Cooper , Wilbur
Coveleski , Stan
Crandall , Doc
Cravath , Gavvy
Creighton , Jim
Criger , Lou
Cross , Lave
Cruise , Walt
Cummings , Candy
Dahlen , Bill
Daubert , Jake
Davis , Harry
Dinneen , Bill
Doak , Bill
Donlin , Mike
Donovan , Bill
Dooin , Red
Doyle , Jack
Doyle , Larry
Duffy , Hugh
Dugan , Joe
Dunlap , Fred
Dykes , Jimmy
Ehmke , Howard
Elberfeld , Kid
Ens , Jewel
Evers , Johnny
Faber , Red
Falkenberg , Cy
Fletcher , Art
Flick , Elmer
Foster , Eddie
Fraser , Chick
Galvin , Pud
Glasscock , Jack
Gleason , Kid
Gonzalez , Mike
Gore , George
Gowdy , Hank
Grant , Eddie
Grant , Frank
Griffith , Clark
Grimes , Burleigh
Groh , Heinie
Hahn , Noodles
Haines , Jesse
Hargrave , Bubbles
Harris , Bucky
Herzog , Buck
Hill , Pete
Hinchman , Bill
Hines , Paul
Hooper , Harry
Huggins , Miller
Irwin , Charlie
Jackson , Joe
Jennings , Hughie
Johnson , Home Run
Jones , Charley
Jones , Fielder
Jones , Sam P.
Jordan , Tim
Joss , Addie
Judge , Joe
Keeler , Willie
Kelley , Joe
Kerr , Dickie
Killefer , Bill
Kilroy , Matt
Kling , Johnny
Knabe , Otto
Kremer , Ray
Lange , Bill
Larkin , Henry
Latham , Arlie
Leach , Freddy
Leach , Tommy
Leever , Sam
Lewis , Duffy
Lobert , Hans
Long , Herman
Lowe , Bobby
Luque , Dolf
Lyons , Denny
Magee , Sherry
Maranville , Rabbit
Marquard , Rube
Mathews , Bobby
Mays , Carl
McAleer , Jimmy
McCarthy , Tommy
McCormick , Jim
McGinnity , Joe
McGowan , Bill
McInnis , Stuffy
McLean , Larry
McPhee , Bid
McVey , Cal
Meadows , Lee
Mendez , Jose
Meusel , Bob
Milan , Clyde
Miller , Bing
Miller , Dots
Miller , Hack
Moore , Dobie
Moran , Pat
Mostil , Johnny
Mullane , Tony
Murphy , Danny
Murray , Red
Nehf , Art
O'Doul , Lefty
Oeschger , Joe
O'Farrell , Bob
O'Leary , Charlie
Oms , Alejandro
O'Neill , Steve
O'Neill , Tip
Orr , Dave
Pabor , Charlie
Paskert , Dode
Pearce , Dickey
Peckinpaugh , Roger
Peitz , Heinie
Pennock , Herb
Perdue , Hub
Perkins , Cy
Phillippe , Deacon
Pike , Lip
Pipp , Wally
Poles , Spotswood
Quinn , Jack
Radbourn , Charlie
Raymond , Bugs
Redding , Dick
Remsen , Jack
Rice , Sam
Richardson , Hardy
Ring , Jimmy
Ritchey , Claude
Rixey , Eppa
Robertson , Dave
Rommel , Eddie
Roush , Edd
Rucker , Nap
Rudolph , Dick
Ruel , Muddy
Rusie , Amos
Ryan , Jimmy
Santop , Louis
Schacht , Al
Schaefer , Germany
Schalk , Ray
Schang , Wally
Schreckengost , Ossie
Schulte , Frank
Scott , Everett
Scott , Jack
Severeid , Hank
Seymour , Cy
Sheckard , Jimmy
Sherdel , Bill
Shocker , Urban
Sisler , George
Smith , Earl
Smith , Sherry
Sparks , Tully
Spaulding , Al
Stahl , Jake
Start , Joe
Steinfeldt , Harry
Stovey , Harry
Street , Gabby
Sutton , Ezra
Sweeney , Bill
Tannehill , Jesse
Taylor , Ben
Tenney , Fred
Thomas , Ira
Thompson , Sam
Tiernan , Mike
Tinker , Joe
Toney , Fred
Turner , Terry
Van Haltren , George
Vance , Dazzy
Veach , Bobby
Waddell , Rube
Walberg , Rube
Wallace , Bobby
Wambsganss , Bill
Ward , John M.
Warfield , Frank
Welch , Mickey
Wheat , Zack
White , Deacon
White , Sol
White , Will
Williams , Cy
Williams , Ken
Williamson , Ned
Willis , Vic
Witt , Whitey
Wood , Joe
Wright , George
Yerkes , Steve
Youngs , Ross
Zachary , Tom
Zimmer , Chief


The complete list of eligible contributors:


Abe , Iso
Bancroft , Frank
Barrow , Ed
Bulkely , Morgan
Cartwright , Alexander
Chance , Frank
Clarke , Fred
Commiskey , Charlie
Conlan , Charles
Connolly , Tom
Creighton , Jim
Cummings , Candy
Dreyfuss , Barney
Dunn , Jack
Elias , Al Munro
Gleason , Kid
Griffith , Clark
Hanlon , Ned
Huggins , Miller
Hulbert , William
Johnson , Ban
Klem , Bill
Landis , Kenesaw
Lardner , Ring
Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W.
McCarthy , Tommy
Mendez , Jose
Moran , Pat
Mutrie , Jim
Osborn , Frank
Pearce, Dickey
Reach , A. J.
Richter , Francis
Robinson , Wilbert
Selee , Frank
Shibe , Ben
Spalding , Al
Spink, Albert
Taylor , C. I.
Thayer , Ernest
Ward , John M.
Warfield , Frank
White , Sol
Wilson , Horace
Wright , George

[Brad Harris]

Players
1. Oscar Charleston
2. Deacon White
3. Louis Santop
4. Paul Hines
5. George Wright
6. Jesse Burkett
7. Bill Dahlen
8. Sherry Magee
9. Fred Clarke
10. Pete Hill
11. Jimmy Collins
12. George Sisler

Did some re-examining of 19th versus 20th Century candidates and adjusted the back half of my ballot to give more props to the "moderns." Still have a queue at least another 12 players long that I will eventually vote for. I also decided to emphasize non-pitchers more than I had been doing. My "13th" man was a pitcher, FWIW.

Contributors
1. Ban Johnson
2. William Hulbert
3. A.G. Spalding
4. Judge Kenesaw M. Landis
5. Francis Richter

Once again considered Alex Cartwright, but I can't find proof that he had any impact on the game that any of his teammates didn't have and the election of Doc Adams amply fills the "father of baseball" category for us. I'm turning my focus to people with a more substantial impact and more proven connection to the sport. Cartwright has, for me, become the new Abner Doubleday and I now look on his induction to Cooperstown as a mistake; a mistake I don't feel casually enough about to repeat here.

[jalbright]

My ballot:

Players
1. Oscar Charleston
2. John M. Ward
3. Amos Rusie
4. Deacon White
5. Bill Dahlen
6. Jesse Burkett
7. Louis Santop
8. Sherry Magee
9. Zack Wheat
10. Paul Hines
11. Fred Clarke
12. George Wright

Contributors
1. William Hulbert
2. Ban Johnson
3. Jim Creighton
4. Al Spalding
5. Kennesaw Landis

[jjpm74]

Players:

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Ezra Sutton
3. Ross Barnes
4. Joe Start
5. Jimmy Collins
6. Deacon White
7. Paul Hines
8. Bill Dahlen
9. Edd Roush
10. Charlie Bennett
11. George Wright
12. Rabbit Maranville

Contributors:

1. Jim Creighton
2. C. I. Taylor
3. Ban Johnson
4. Al Spalding
5. William Hulbert

Not yet on my ballot, but high in my consideration set:

Roger Bresnahan
Jesse Burkett
Fred Clarke
Pud Galvin
George Gore
Heinie Groh
Sherry Magee
Rabbit Maranville
Bid McPhee
Amos Rusie
Louis Santop
George Sisler
Dazzy Vance
Zach Wheat

[henrich]

Contributors:
01 Landis
02 Cartwright
03 Johnson
04 Hulbert
05 Spalding

Players: (Note Cy Young is listed on eligible players to vote for:)
01 Charleston
02 Santop
03 burkett
04 Dahlen
05 Barnes
06 Galvin
07 Wheat
08 White, Deacon
09 Magee
10 Pennock
11 Stovey
12 McPhee

[Domenic]

Players
01. Oscar Charleston
02. Deacon White
03. George Wright
04. Paul Hines
05. Louis Santop
06. Jesse Burkett
07. Dazzy Vance
08. Sherry Magee
09. Bill Dahlen
10. Pete Hill
11. Jimmy Collins
12. Fred Clarke

Contributors
01. Ban Johnson
02. William Hulbert
03. A.G. Spalding
04. Judge Kenesaw M. Landis
05. Francis Richter

[bambambaseball]

Players:

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Charlie Bennett
3. Jimmy Collins
4. Ezra Sutton
5. Ross Barnes
6. Deacon White
7. George Sisler
8. Bob Caruthers
9. George Wright
10. Louis Santop
11. Jesse Burkett
12. Roger Bresnahan

Contributers:

1. Creighton, Jim
2. Bill Klem
3. Francis Richter
4. Al Spalding
5. Ban Johnson

[jalbright]

(Note Cy Young is listed on eligible players to vote for:)


No longer. Thanks.

[Paul Wendt]

The players are easy this year.
Oscar Charleston replaces Rogers Hornsby.

Players
1 Oscar Charleston
2 George Wright
3 Deacon White
4 Bill Dahlen
5 Paul Hines
6 Fred Clarke
7 Jesse Burkett
8 J.M. Ward
9 Ross Barnes
10 Louis Santop
11 Grant Johnson
12 George Gore

[leecemark]

1) George Wright
2) Oscar Charleston
3) Ross Barnes
4) Luis Santop
5) Deacon White
6) John Ward
7) Paul Hines
8) Fred Clarke
9) Amos Rusie
10) Jimmy Collins
11) Jesse Burkett
12) Charlie Bennett

1) Ban Johnson
2) Wiliam Hulbert
3) Alexander Cartwright
4) Al Spaulding
5) Francis Richter

[dgarza]

Players
1. Oscar Charleston
2. Sam Thompson
3. Jesse Burkett
4. Joe Jackson
5. Ross Barnes
6. George Sisler
7. Amos Rusie
8. Al Spalding
9. Harry Stovey
10. Willie Keeler
11. Pete Browning
12. Hugh Duffy

Contributors
1. Al Spalding
2. Kenesaw Landis
3. Alexander Cartwright
4. Charles Conlon
5. William Hulbert

[Freakshow]

1. Oscar Charleston
2. George Wright
3. Louis Santop
4. Bill Dahlen
5. Deacon White
6. Paul Hines
7. Jesse Burkett
8. Amos Rusie
9. Ross Barnes
10. Fred Clarke
11. Joe Start
12. John M. Ward

[bambambaseball]

I looks like Charleston will run away with this. This is great. He was better then Josh Gibson who is already listed.

[jalbright]

I looks like Charleston will run away with this. This is great. He was better then Josh Gibson who is already listed.

Josh Gibson isn't inducted in this project yet, as he's not eligible until 1949. He may not run away with election like Charleston will, simply because 1948 may some talented leftovers (only three of the following can be elected in their first season of eligibility: Cool Papa Bell, Mickey Cochrane, Charlie Gehringer, Carl Hubbell, Biz Mackey, and Paul Waner). I still expect to have Gibson at the top of my ballot in 1949, but I won't be shocked if it's not unanimous.

[jalbright]

We've reached a quorum of 10 for the contributors already, and need only two more contributor ballots to do so for that election as well.

[Dogdaze]

Players:

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Louis Santop
3. George Wright
4. Deacon White
5. John M. Ward
6. Jimmy Collins
7. Jesse Burkett
8. Ross Barnes
9. Amos Rusie
10. George Sisler
11. Sam Thompson
12. Old Hoss Radbourn

Contributors:

1. William Hulbert
2. Ban Johnson
3. Al Spalding
4. Francis Richter
5. Jim Creighton

[Paul Wendt]

Does anyone have a comparative judgment of C.I. Taylor, Cum Posey, and J.L. Wilkinson as builders of teams and ballclubs or contributors to leagues?

What time is it, December 1941?
(I am thinking of the stories that Bill Klem may retire. I suppose I'll believe them when I see a League staff without him.)
Does anyone have a comparative judgment of Tommy Connolly and Klem as umpires? Those of you - all but two - who are not yet giving points to any umpires, do you expect to vote for Connolly or Klem first, why?

Does anyone have a judgment of Wilbert Robinson as a coach for New York or a manager for Brooklyn? --that is, his baseball career after Baltimore?

[jalbright]

Does anyone have a comparative judgment of C.I. Taylor, Cum Posey, and J.L. Wilkinson as builders of teams and ballclubs or contributors to leagues?
Here's my cases on those three:
C. I. Taylor (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=361405&postcount=62)
Cum Posey (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=361410&postcount=65)
J. L. Wilkinson (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=361411&postcount=66)

I guess if I had to choose, I'd go for the longest period of success among them, which would make it 1. Wilkinson, 2. Posey, 3. Taylor


What time is it, December 1941?
That's a reasonable approximation for that which hasn't happened in the lives of our contributors.

(I am thinking of the stories that Bill Klem may retire. I suppose I'll believe them when I see a League staff without him.)
Does anyone have a comparative judgment of Tommy Connolly and Klem as umpires? Those of you - all but two - who are not yet giving points to any umpires, do you expect to vote for Connolly or Klem first, why?

Honestly, I have no firm ideas on the umpires, other than that we should have at least one in our "Hall". If anyone actually can be definitively credited with creating systems of umpiring for multiple-man crews or such, I'd be likely to vote for him. However, I haven't seen anything beyond unsubstantiated claims on such issues.

Does anyone have a judgment of Wilbert Robinson as a coach for New York or a manager for Brooklyn? --that is, his baseball career after Baltimore?
Robinson didn't have nearly enough success as a manager to earn my support. Two pennants and a .506 career winning percentage aren't terrible by any means, but those two pennant winners were joined by only one other season where wins minus losses equalled 20 or more (in 19 tries). That's just not enough for me.

[AstrosFan]

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Jimmy Collins
3. Bill Dahlen
4. John M. Ward
5. Max Carey
6. Louis Santop
7. Amos Rusie
8. Jesse Burkett
9. George Sisler
10. Deacon White
11. Fred Clarke
12. Paul Hines

Contributors:

1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Ban Johnson
3. William Hulbert
4. Francis Richter
5. Al Spalding

[Brad Harris]

To answer Paul's questions:

I rank the NeL execs Wilkinson, Posey, Taylor FWIW.

I'm of the mind that electing an umpire is a big "if," but if we did, I can't see a case for anyone over Klem. (Connolly was a fine one in his own right, but not the institution Klem is.)

Uncle Robby gets a thumbs down from me.

[Sockeye]

1. Jesse Burkett
2. Joe Jackson
3. Oscar Charleston
4. Fred Clarke
5. Zack Wheat
6. Sherry Magee
7. Willie Keeler
8. Sam Thompson
9. Elmer Flick
10. Harry Stovey
11. Pete Browning
12. George Sisler

1. W. Hulbert
2. A. Spalding
3. A. Cartwright
4. B. Johnson
5. J. Creighton

[jalbright]

We are now at a quorum in both elections.

[J W]

Players

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Joe Jackson
3. Frank Grant
4. Jesse Burkett
5. Louis Santop
6. George Sisler
7. Bill Dahlen
8. Rube Waddell
9. Amos Rusie
10. Sherry Magee
11. Stan Coveleski
12. Charlie Radbourn

Contributors

1. William Hulbert
2. Ban Johnson
3. Alexander Cartwright
4. Fred Clarke
5. Bill Klem

[BlueBlood]

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Amos Rusie
3. Bill Dahlen
4. George Wright
5. Deacon White
6. Charlie Bennett
7. Paul Hines
8. Jesse Burkett
9. Zack Wheat
10. Pud Galvin
11. Jimmy Collins
12. Rube Waddell

1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Jim Creighton
3. William Hulbert
4. Al Spalding
5. Ban Johnson

[PVNICK]

1. Oscar Charleston
2. George Sisler
3. Monte Ward
4. Bill Dahlen
5. Amos Rusie
6. Hoss Radbourne
7. Bob Caruthers
8. George Wright
9. Jimmy Collins
10. Louis Santop
11. Joe Jackson
12. Sherry Magee

1. Jim Creghton
2. Al Spalding
3. AJ Reach
4. Albert Spink
5. William Hulbert

I slid Radbourne down a bit and added Charleston, Jackson and Magee.

[jjpm74]

Jim,

It looks like you're missing baseball writer O.P. Caylor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._P._Caylor) from your master list of contributors. Is he not eligible for this project?

[jalbright]

Jim,

It looks like you're missing baseball writer O.P. Caylor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._P._Caylor) from your master list of contributors. Is he not eligible for this project?

He never got a vote while I ran the BBF HOF project, and, up to your post, nobody had mentioned him. That explains why he wasn't listed. I understand that especially in the contributor list, guys like this can fall through the cracks. You've not only mentioned him, but the link you gave provided sufficient info to list him. However, since he's being added, I think it best that it occur at the outset of a voting cycle, so he'll become eligible in 1943.

The fact he's worthy of being listed doesn't mean I'm convinced to vote for him, though. I'll look through Bill Burgess thread on sportswriters, but if you'd like to make a bit of a pitch for him, please do.

I've learned more in the contributor voting than elsewhere simply because there's guys (like Caylor) I'd never even heard of before.

[jjpm74]

I just noticed his name was not on your master list when doing some housekeeping in the neighboring Progressive HoF VC Contributor's thread. Like you, my knowledge of a lot of these potential contributors is rudimentary at best and wondering who they are at worst.

What I do know about Cayler is that he played an integral role in establishing the Redlegs organization as well as the American Association, that we was one of a handful of baseball writers for the newspaper (the Cincinnati Enquirer), and that his writing was well received during the latter half of the 19th century and was known for its wit, humor and accuracy. He was also an executive and jack of all trades. I have had the opportunity to read a few of his articles and they were indeed well written. Unfortunately, I don't know of any online resource that has back issues of the Cincinnati Enquirer going back that far.

Caylor's writing, for me at least was what pushed him over the hump, but was not why I became interested in his case. There is some mention of some of his other roles in the 19th century game HERE (http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=62&pid=537)

O.P. Caylor, the journalist and club secretary who fulfilled the role of a modern general manager for the Reds, later gave outfielder Charlie Jones the largest share of the credit for pressing him to find a way to sign Baldwin. Caylor must have found the idea a little awkward, for he was secretary of the Arbitration Committee that had used Baldwin's petition for reinstatement as a showpiece for their refusal to have mercy on any Union Association members. Worse still, in his capacity as baseball editor of the Cincinnati Commercial Gazette, Caylor had announced, "Repentance was too late. Baldwin, [Dupee] Shaw and the rest are beginning to realize how Devlin, Hall, Craver and Nichols felt," thus comparing Baldwin and his fellow Union jumpers to four players famous for having been detecting throwing games for Louisville in 1877. (Cincinnati Commercial Gazette, Nov. 23, 1884)

Caylor is not on my short list, but I may eventually vote for him.

[jalbright]

The top five holdovers are in a real dogfight for the two spots behind Charleston, bunched a mere 13 points from top to bottom with three voters from last election (Captain Cold Nose, mwiggins, and, of course, AG2004) yet to vote. On the contributor side, the race for the one available slot isn't nearly so close, but, with those three plus possible/probable votes from Sockeye and Paul Wendt yet to come, it's hardly over.

[Brad Harris]

I'm a Caylor supporter. From everything I've read on him, O.P. Caylor is essentially to the American Association what Ban Johnson was to the American League.

[bambambaseball]

I'm a Caylor supporter. From everything I've read on him, O.P. Caylor is essentially to the American Association what Ban Johnson was to the American League.

Count me as a Caylor supporter too. He was one of the biggest presences behind the scenes of the American Association and he was also a very important writer. He was a true pioneer! I read this about him:

http://www.amazon.com/Caylor-Biographical-Dictionary-Biography-Sportswriters/dp/B0000U7IFK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236135890&sr=8-1

He was a signifigent but forgotten 19th century guy.

[jjpm74]

I'm surprised Caylor never came up in the BBFHOF project, though I don't know the full history of that projecft or how long the Contributor's end of that project lasted.

[jalbright]

I'm surprised Caylor never came up in the BBFHOF project, though I don't know the full history of that projecft or how long the Contributor's end of that project lasted.

I don't believe I saw a vote for Caylor once I joined BBF-and my initial motivation was to participate in the BBF HOF project. However, the project had been going for some time before I got involved, so it's possible he got a vote back then. I'm sure I never recorded a vote for Caylor in the time I actually ran the project (May 2006 onward, IIRC), or his name would have appeared on my spreadsheet (the only ones deleted were those who were elected).

[Paul Wendt]

I'm a Caylor supporter. From everything I've read on him, O.P. Caylor is essentially to the American Association what Ban Johnson was to the American League.
:rolleyes: Do they remember him thus in Cincinnati?

My understanding is that Spink in St Louis, Caylor in Cincinnati, and McKnight in Pittsburgh were early leaders in getting a new league together. From Spink's history it appears that Spink and Caylor led in building the clubs that became St Louis and Cinci entries, and operatiing their teams during summer and fall(?) 1881. McKnight became the President. Neither Spink nor Caylor served as chief executive for a club or for the league. They were journalists more than businessmen and they were not capitalists.

Now I resort to the biographies in Baseball's First Stars (SABR, 1996). It covers all three. (Also longtime Baltimore owner Harry von der Horst. Longtime St Louis owner Chris von der Ahe is in the preceding volume Nineteenth Century Stars (SABR, 1989).)

"On October 10 [1881], Justus Thorner of Cin and Chris von der Ahe of St Louis consulted with McKnight about organizing a new league independent of the NL. A call was issued to all interested club operators to meet November 2 in Pittsburgh." The AA was founded that date with McKnight president.

Caylor served Cinci as secretary and business manager thru 1886, the Mets as administrator during 1887 after his NY-based newspaper went bust. That fall, 1887-0905 the "AA executives expelled him from their meetings on grounds he had revealed organization confidences in print." According to Richter, "From then on he became a bitter enemy of the Association and an equally intense partisan of the National League."

Spink served St Louis as "an executive" at least thru 1886, the first season for The Sporting News ("while an executive").

McKnight served as Allegheny club president for three baseball seasons, AA president for five seasons, thru 1884 and 1886. He tried and failed to sell the club after 1883 and to join the NL after 1884 --in order to end the conflict of interest as club and league president, it seems in this account. He did find successors as president and the second one did move the club to the NL after 1886.

[Captain Cold Nose]

1. Oscar Charleston
2. George Wright
3.John Montgomery Ward
4. Louis Santop
5. Deacon White
6. Bill Dahlen
7. George Sisler
8. Amos Rusie
9. Willie Keeler
10. Charles Radbourne
11. Jesse Burkett
12. Jimmy Collins

Contributors

1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Al Spalding
3. Ban Johnson
4. William Hulbert
5. Ned Hanlon

[jalbright]

Since we have all but two of last election's votes on the player side and four (two who voted last time have only submitted player ballots this time) on the contributor side, I think we're far enough along to look at who will become eligible next election. On the contributor side, we have the following class:


Caylor , O. P.
Cooper , Andy
Wilkinson , J. L.


On the player side, we have these new entries:


Cooper , Andy
Cuyler , Kiki
Frisch , Frankie
Gehrig , Lou
Grimm , Charlie
Jackman , Will
Lundy , Dick
Marberry , Firpo
Sewell , Joe
Stephenson , Riggs
Terry , Bill
Traynor , Pie
Uhle , George


Cooper makes both lists because he died in 1941.

On the contributor side, we've already talked about Caylor in this thread. Wilkinson is a fine candidate, and may even break on to my ballot (it's down to Barrow, Richter and him). Cooper was a fine pitcher, but I haven't seen enough to go for him on that basis alone. He added some success as a manager in his brief life, and that's enough for me to think I might vote for him as a contributor, but not right away.

Gehrig will be #1 on my ballot, and suspect he will be in that spot on most if not all ballots. I'm probably going to hold John Montgomery Ward at #2, but Frisch will be right in spot #3. If they stay on the ballot long enough, I'll vote for Terry, Traynor, Sewell, and probably Lundy as well. I don't like Cuyler much, but I'm sure there are some who disagree, and Marberry, Stephenson and Uhle may have their adherents. Jackman is one of the toughest cases around to get a handle on, and the untimely passing of the man who was to do his biography (BBF's own WJackman) does nothing to help in that regard. Overall, a strong class, with top talent supplemented by real depth.

[Captain Cold Nose]

That's a very strong ballot for 1943. I'll probably be voting for most of them and soon.

[jalbright]

We'll have a thin new class in 1944, but 1945 is deep: Lefty Grove, Goose Goslin, Mule Suttles, Ted Lyons, Gabby Hartnett are all ones who might make my ballot in their first year of eligibility. I'm not likely to vote for Judy Johnson or Jim Bottomley, but they're on the ballot as well, along with Hack Wilson, who I probably will eventually support. In some ways, 1945 is stronger than 1943.

1948 will field a strong crop as well, with Gehringer, Hubbell, Paul Waner, Cochrane, Cool Papa Bell, plus Biz Mackey, Chick Hafey and Tony Lazzeri.

Those classes which have more guys coming on to the ballot than the number inducted who are as strong or stronger than the ones already there really have the potential to shake things up.

[mwiggins]

Players:

1. Oscar Charleston
2. George Sisler
3. Joe Jackson
4. George Wright
5. Fred Clarke
6. Louis Santop
7. Jesse Burkett
8. Bill Dahlen
9. Sherry Magee
10. Max Carey
11. Deacon White
12. Edd Roush

Contributors:
1. Alexander Cartwright
2. William Hulbert
3. Al Spalding
4. Ban Johnson
5. Keneshaw Landis

[philkid3]

1. Joe Jackson
2. Oscar Charleston
3. Zack Wheat
4. Fred Clarke
5. Bill Dahlen
6. Max Carey
7. George Sisler
8. Louis Santop
9. George Wright
10. Ross Barnes
11. Jimmy Collins
12. Amos Rusie

1. Will Hulbert
2. Alexander Cartwright
3. Al Spalding
4. Ban Johnson
5. Jim Creighton

[jalbright]

I went through some of my spreadsheets from the BBF HOF days, and found some additional names to add to the eligibility list. Many are for years not yet reached by our project, but I found some definite omissions. Dickey Pearce has had a vote count already, and it should have, but he wasn't on the list. That has been corrected. The following names will officially join the ballot in 1943:

Bill Dinneen
Abner Doubleday (a bad choice, IMHO, but this is an eligibility decision, not an endorsement)
John B. Foster
Hugh Fullerton
John Hillerich
Hughie Jennings (how did I miss him??)
A. G. Mills
Jacob Ruppert
George Stallings

I am also updating the master list to include the other names (the earliest of which after the above is eligible in 1961), all of whom received votes in the BBF HOF Contributor voting. I eliminated a few (somebody voted for Eisenhower, Taft and Truman on the grounds they furthered the sport, but I'm not inclined to second that argument), but only those I could not see a reasonable argument for or could not find a birth or death year for. I did this because we don't have the voting totals easily accessible, like we do for the BBWAA. Thus, I felt expanding the list this way was as similar as I could manage to the way I compiled the player list.

[jalbright]

Just for clarification, the 1943 contributor class will now be:


O. P. Caylor
Andy Cooper
Bill Dinneen
Abner Doubleday
John B. Foster
Hugh Fullerton
John Hillerich
Hughie Jennings
A. G. Mills
Jacob Ruppert
George Stallings
J. L. Wilkinson

[jjpm74]

That's a good group of contributors. I could see myself voting for AG Mills, Bill Dinneen, Jacob Ruppert, O.P. Caylor and J.L. Wilkinson in the near future.

I'd like to hear more about Andy Cooper as a contributor. I didn't see much there on the contributor side and have always seen him as a borderline HOFer as a player.

[jalbright]

I see Cooper as a player about as you do. Since the Contributor category allows consideration of a person's lifetime of contributions to the game, that should certainly count in his favor. I've written this about Cooper:

He was 116-57 in the Negro Leagues over a longer career than Mendez and not only started but also relieved. He was so successful in relief (in addition to his starts) that he is credited with the most saves in Negro League history (per Cooperstown's site) and led the league in that category numerous times (also per Cooperstown's site). He skippered a team to three pennants and a Negro League World Series victory.

To me, that managerial success in his young life is enough to push him over the top.

[Paul Wendt]

Just for clarification, the 1943 contributor class will now be:


O. P. Caylor
Andy Cooper
Bill Dinneen
Abner Doubleday
John B. Foster
Hugh Fullerton
John Hillerich
Hughie Jennings
A. G. Mills
Jacob Ruppert
George Stallings
J. L. Wilkinson


Hillerich - is he the founder of Hillerich & Bradsby? a businessman and what else?

(Somewhere I have voted for Frank Osborn and not for Charles Leavitt because on my reading of limited internet resources Leavitt didn't do much work on ballparks, and Osborn not only founded Osborn Engineering but did design ballparks, or set the tone by designing the firm's first one.)

Wilkinson -

(Another project --or is it one of two others?-- elects contributors more quickly. I am curious to see how Cum Posey, C.I. Taylor, and J.L. Wilkinson will do. They are test cases, in a way. There I am voting for Sol White but I don't expect to make any case for him until all three of these are elected.)

[jalbright]

Paul,

You've got the right Hillerich. Remember, this list is of eligibles, not guys I think are worthy. A bat company maker is at least worthy of discussion, though personally, I have to be persuaded he's worthy of anything more than that.

[Brad Harris]

Paul,

You've got the right Hillerich. Remember, this list is of eligibles, not guys I think are worthy. A bat company maker is at least worthy of discussion, though personally, I have to be persuaded he's worthy of anything more than that.
And how, exactly, is Abner Doubleday worthy of discussion? There isn't a single shred of proof that the man even knew of baseball's existence, much less that he had any impact on it. I should think the burden of proof to have him included in the discussion should fall on the shoulders of anyone brazen or naive enough to advocate for him. Short of that, there can't be any justifiable reason for adding his name to the ballot.

What do we know about the Doubleday myth here in 1942. We know that Henry Chadwick did more to debunk it than the Mills Commission did to establish it at the commencement of this Century. We know that Mills, himself a personal and lifelong friend of Doubleday's, never once heard Doubleday so much as mention the game of baseball, which is extremely odd since both men served together during the Civil War for some time and Mills played baseball during the war. It should also strike any thoughtful reader as odd that had Doubleday any connection to baseball, the fact that his lifelong pal Mills was President of the National League and league executive for the final fifteen years of Doubleday's life. Furthermore, the Commission was unable to produce a single confirmation from any of Doubleday's family, friends or former colleagues that would indicate Doubleday knew or cared about the game of baseball, much less had invented it. The year is 1942. Doubleday is a total myth. The dispelling of which was well documented in the dissenting opinion published with the Mills Commission report itself.

[For those who want to play this OOC and say there was a 1939 U.S. postal stamp issued honoring the 100th anniversary of the birth of baseball at Cooperstown, let's not forget that (a) that was issued to correspond to the opening of the Hall of Fame there; and institution which doesn't exist in Cooperstown in our little project; and (b) that in 1953, the U.S. Congress officially credited someone else as the inventor of baseball.]

[jalbright]

Just the dispelling of the myth is discussion-worthy, IMHO. So long as a ballot is otherwise reasonable, I'd probably accept a vote for Doubleday, though such a vote would immediately put the contributor ballot in question under scrutiny for the reasons you cite. The project is designed to absorb rather painlessly such votes, far better than the BBF HOF did with its 75% requirement for election--and that project accepted the Doubleday votes.

BTW, I'm not very interested in playing "in character", as it's not very meaningful in the context of the way this project runs. For contributors like Branch Rickey, who becomes eligible in 1946, I think it's incongruous at best to allow him to claim credit for integrating the majors in 1946 when it didn't happen until 1947. There aren't many of such cases, and we can deal with them as they arise.

[Paul Wendt]

BTW, I'm not very interested in playing "in character", as it's not very meaningful in the context of the way this project runs. For contributors like Branch Rickey, who becomes eligible in 1946, I think it's incongruous at best to allow him to claim credit for integrating the majors in 1946 when it didn't happen until 1947. There aren't many of such cases, and we can deal with them as they arise.
(emphasis mine)

Jim,
I don't understand what you mean here. Evidently you mean to contrast "playing in character" and "dealing with them as they arise", and you hope we will do the latter rather than the former. Offhand I don't know how to deal Rickey next election except by supposing that it is 1946 (January?). Jackie Robinson has not yet played the 1946 season in Montreal.

--on the other hand, two pages up I asked whether this election occurs in December 1941 and Jim called that a reasonable approximation. In December 1946 we know that Robinson & Rickey have integrated the International League via Montreal and they are serious about the National League.

[jalbright]

Paul,

There aren't many occasions like this, as the vast majority of our contributors have made their major contributions by the year in which they turned 65. Branch Rickey in December 1946 had shown he was serious about integrating, but it wasn't yet certain that it would work out. If his career to that point, including the willingness to make the attempt is enough, fine, elect him. But don't credit him with the success of the attempt before 1947.

[jalbright]

To further amplify the last post, I've never envisioned this project as one which in 1941 (or whatever) should act as though we don't know about the exploits of Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, Steve Carlton, Greg Maddux, Mike Schmidt, et al. In that particular sense, I am 180 degrees away from the concept of the Progressive Hall project. I don't object if others want to be "in character", but I want everyone to understand that if they do so, it is a matter of their own personal choice rather than one requested by the project.

The players all have completed all the significant aspects of their careers when they become eligible in this project. The contributors generally have as well, but in some cases, like Branch Rickey and Buck O'Neill they had significant accomplishments after the year in which they turned 65. In those exceptional cases, I do feel we have to recognize the issue of the timeline.

[Paul Wendt]

Perhaps playing "in character" means adopting knowledge and opinion that represent the past, such as popular 1941 recollection of the centennial celebration in Cooperstown and the postage stamp. The contrast would be between Branch Rickey still active himself and Abner Doubleday active in baseball culture.

[jjpm74]

The players all have completed all the significant aspects of their careers when they become eligible in this project. The contributors generally have as well, but in some cases, like Branch Rickey and Buck O'Neill they had significant accomplishments after the year in which they turned 65. In those exceptional cases, I do feel we have to recognize the issue of the timeline.

Put simply:

1. Take into consideration future players/contributors and their role in the game
2. Do not elect a contributor in an election year that would mean they are elected prior to their significant achievement.

?

[Brad Harris]

The players all have completed all the significant aspects of their careers when they become eligible in this project. The contributors generally have as well, but in some cases, like Branch Rickey and Buck O'Neill they had significant accomplishments after the year in which they turned 65. In those exceptional cases, I do feel we have to recognize the issue of the timeline.
Which is why I'm not advocating for Pants Rowland to make the ballot just yet even though he's technically eligible, because he's not yet served as President of the Pacific Coast League.

[jalbright]

Another way we're completely "out of character" is the fact we're having Negro Leaguers (and later, Japanese League players) eligible once they meet the appropriate standard (age/ completion of career/ death year +2). If we were "in character", Negro Leaguers wouldn't already be inducted in our project (prior to integration of the majors).

[Tiboreau]

Since this will be my first post on the Baseball Fever forums, I figure that it would be a good idea to tell a little of my background prior to submitting a ballot. . . .

A participant in the Hall of Merit project, I spent the past few years voting in a project similar to the Best of Baseball project. One of the members of the former is also a participant in another Baseball Fever Hall of Fame project, and during a Hall of Merit side project started after catching up to the physical Hall of Fame he infrequently linked to this project (the Ultimate Quest for Candidates, I believe) during the HoM side project due to similarities between the two.

Two months ago I finally took a look at the Ultimate Quest project, which led me to the Baseball Fever Hall of Fame forum. Curious about its goings on and interested in participating in another alternate Hall of Fame project, I perused the recent postings of that time and discovered this project, in its early stages, and was immediately interested in participating. I registered, then explored the forum for threads related to the Best of Baseball project, and in the meantime put together my own ballot based on my participation in, and research for the Hall of Merit.

Last weekend I was removed from Baseball Fever’s moderation queue and allowed to post, so here is my first Best of Baseball ballot:

1. Oscar Charleston
2. Deacon White
3. Paul Hines
4. Amos Rusie
5. Jesse Burkett
6. Bill Dahlen
7. Ross Barnes
8. Grant “Home Run” Johnson
9. George Wright
10. Charley Radbourn
11. Elmer Flick
12. Dazzy Vance

[jalbright]

Welcome aboard, Tiboreau!

[Freakshow]

Since this will be my first post on the Baseball Fever forums, I figure that it would be a good idea to tell a little of my background prior to submitting a ballot. . . .

A participant in the Hall of Merit project, I spent the past few years voting in a project similar to the Best of Baseball project. One of the members of the former is also a participant in another Baseball Fever Hall of Fame project, and during a Hall of Merit side project started after catching up to the physical Hall of Fame he infrequently linked to this project (the Ultimate Quest for Candidates, I believe) during the HoM side project due to similarities between the two.

Two months ago I finally took a look at the Ultimate Quest project, which led me to the Baseball Fever Hall of Fame forum. Curious about its goings on and interested in participating in another alternate Hall of Fame project, I perused the recent postings of that time and discovered this project, in its early stages, and was immediately interested in participating. I registered, then explored the forum for threads related to the Best of Baseball project, and in the meantime put together my own ballot based on my participation in, and research for the Hall of Merit.Welcome Tiboreau, I'm glad you finally made it here! :party: Always great to have a fellow HoMer join in. You probably have noticed that Paul Wendt hangs around here as well. And I believe Brad Harris was involved in the HoM also.

Too bad you missed the Ultimate Quest, but there's always another similar project going on here. My current endeavor is The Collaboration Game v2.0 - A New Ranking (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=88171), still in its early stages, the 6th election.

So, look around. I hope you're here for a long time. :highfive: Check out some of the other Baseball-Fever forums.

[Tiboreau]

Welcome aboard, Tiboreau!

Much Thanks, Mr. Albright!

Welcome Tiboreau, I'm glad you finally made it here! :party: Always great to have a fellow HoMer join in. You probably have noticed that Paul Wendt hangs around here as well. And I believe Brad Harris was involved in the HoM also.

Too bad you missed the Ultimate Quest, but there's always another similar project going on here. My current endeavor is The Collaboration Game v2.0 - A New Ranking (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=88171), still in its early stages, the 6th election.

So, look around. I hope you're here for a long time. :highfive: Check out some of the other Baseball-Fever forums.

Thanks, Dan (I assume). I did notice both Paul & Brad's participation here, and I'll definitely take a look at the Collaboration Game.

[Brad Harris]

After reviewing the case on Frank Navin (http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=1765&pid=16916), I believe he's a fairly strong candidate as an owner and, with his passing a few years ago, should be eligible for our contributor election. Please add him to the list for next year. Thanks.

[jalbright]

After reviewing the case on Frank Navin (http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=1765&pid=16916), I believe he's a fairly strong candidate as an owner and, with his passing a few years ago, should be eligible for our contributor election. Please add him to the list for next year. Thanks.

He'll get on the list for 1943.

[jalbright]

Just a few hours left in this election. I've posted (but locked) a 1943 voting thread as I have family obligations that will keep me away much of tomorrow, but with the thread up already and only the results from this election to be included, I'm hopeful I can get the new election running before I leave tomorrow.

[Paul Wendt]

Evidently I overlooked the contributors. A few days ago at a neighboring deadline I added Bill Klem to my ballot. I'll do it here without much thought now.

Contributors
1. Ban Johnson
2. Al Spalding
3. William Hulbert
4. Francis Richter
5. Bill Klem

[AG2004]

Here's my ballot

PLAYERS
1. Oscar Charleston
2. Jesse Burkett
3. Paul Hines
4. Joe Start
5. Home Run Johnson
6. Hoss Radbourn
7. Bill Dahlen
8. George Wright
9. Louis Santop
10. Fred Clarke
11. John Ward
12. Amos Rusie

NON-PLAYERS
1. Al Spalding
2. Ban Johnson
3. Dickey Pearce
4. Jim Creighton
5. William Hulbert

[jalbright]

We had 21 player ballots, and have elected Oscar Charleston, Jesse Burkett and Bill Dahlen. The official results:


player……………… votes points
Charleston, O 21 248
Burkett , Jesse 18 121
Dahlen , Bill 16 118
White , Deacon 15 117
Wright , George 16 116
Santop , Louis 16 114
Hines , Paul 11 75
Rusie , Amos 13 74
Barnes , Ross 10 66
Sisler , George 11 63
Ward , John M. 9 63
Jackson , Joe 6 55
Clarke , Fred 11 53
Collins , Jimmy 11 52
Magee , Sherry 8 34
Wheat , Zack 5 32
Bennett , C 4 22
Radbourn , C 6 22
Start , Joe 3 20
Sutton , Ezra 2 20
Carey , Max 3 18
Thompson , Sam 3 18
Johnson , HR 3 15
Keeler , Willie 3 13
Caruthers , B 2 11
Galvin , Pud 2 10
Grant , Frank 1 10
Stovey , Harry 3 9
Vance , Dazzy 2 7
Flick , Elmer 2 6
Hill , Pete 2 6
Waddell , Rube 2 6
Roush , Edd 2 5
Spalding , Al 1 5
Browning , Pete 2 4
Pennock, Herb 1 3
Coveleski , S 1 2
Bresnahan , R 1 1
Duffy , Hugh 1 1
Gore , George 1 1
Maranville , R 1 1
McPhee , Bid 1 1



We had 19 contributor ballots, and elected Ban Johnson. The official results:


contributor……. votes points
Johnson , Ban 17 59
Spalding , Al 18 53
Hulbert , W 16 52
Cartwright , A 10 40
Creighton , Jim 9 27
Landis , K 6 15
Richter , F 7 12
Klem, Bill.. 5 10
Taylor , C. I. 1 4
Pearce, Dickey 1 3
Reach , A. J. 1 3
Clarke , Fred 1 2
Conlan , C 1 2
Spink, Albert 1 2
Hanlon , Ned 1 1