For MarkH

[wrstdude]

How many frames do you have this swing @?

http://xs536.xs.to/xs536/09092/hr2vsomaha779.gif

[Mark H]

Well that was quick. I thank you for taking this out of Casey's thread but I'm unlikely to answer your question. Since I understand you to be part of the HI crew I assume duplicity (first and or second hand) and a desire to attack rather than an interest in good faith inquiry and discussion. If this is not true in your case, I apolgize and suggest you reconsider your associations.

[Chris O'Leary]

How many frames do you have this swing @?

http://xs536.xs.to/xs536/09092/hr2vsomaha779.gif

QuickTime says the FPS is 5.26 which means the file is corrupted and frames have been dropped.

If you count the frames you can see, you'll get 3.5, but that's a bogus number due to dropped frames.

I don't trust much of anything coming out of HI due to things like this.

Too many things are done to clips to try to make their point.

[Jake Patterson]

Wrst,
Was this file intentionally corrupted?

[Mark H]

Wrst,
Was this file intentionally corrupted?

If it was he may not have been aware. Like I said, first or second hand duplicity. In my view, 90% of the venom on hitting boards everywhere on the web comes from one origination point.

[wrstdude]

Well that was quick. I thank you for taking this out of Casey's thread but I'm unlikely to answer your question. Since I understand you to be part of the HI crew I assume duplicity (first and or second hand) and a desire to attack rather than an interest in good faith inquiry and discussion. If this is not true in your case, I apolgize and suggest you reconsider your associations.

[Charlie Brown] Oh brother... [/Charlie Brown]

Rather than saying any number, you decided to post that. It reminds me of the SNL skit Celebrity Jeopardy...with you being Burt Reynolds.

What associations are acceptable to you? I guess we'd better straighten that out first right?

QuickTime says the FPS is 5.26 which means the file is corrupted and frames have been dropped.

If you count the frames you can see, you'll get 3.5, but that's a bogus number due to dropped frames.

I don't trust much of anything coming out of HI due to things like this.

Too many things are done to clips to try to make their point.

Yes. No thread is complete without clip doctoring accusations thrown at HI. It's HG's clip.
If you want to question HG's integrity, take it up with him. I'm sure he'd love to discuss it with you.

Wrst,
Was this file intentionally corrupted?

If it's corrupted, it wasn't by me. I right clicked the clip and selected copy clip location. Pasted it here. I believe it's HG's clip. I don't think his integrity is in question here...nor should it be.

If it was he may not have been aware. Like I said, first or second hand duplicity. In my view, 90% of the venom on hitting boards everywhere on the web comes from one origination point.

Again, I'm aware of no corruption, and I trust that not only would HG NOT intentionally corrupt a clip, but I'm fairly positive that he wouldn't know how. :laugh No offense HG, as I wouldn't either.

[Jake Patterson]

If it's corrupted, it wasn't by me. I right clicked the clip and selected copy clip location. Pasted it here. I believe it's HG's clip. I don't think his integrity is in question here...nor should it be.I was not questioning any one person, I was questioning this particular clip. Others have showed up corrupted for one reason or another. Discussing FPS on a corrupted clip is futile and brings little value to any discussion.

[HYP]

Question about frame rate. The only thing I know about clips is how to save and turn into gifs.

If frames were missing, when watching back frame by frame, wouldn't there be some kind of jumping action?

watch the catcher, his glove moves up at the same rate of speed. There is one spot I believe around frame 13 - 14 where it looks like the glove jumps up a bit but this is at the point where the ball is getting close and he needs to get his glove to the spot of the balls arrival. It is also at this point where HGs hands move forward quickly, again, point of commitment. Nothing to drastic.

So lets say, that possibly one frame got dropped. Still a 4 - 4.5 frame swing. Pretty freaking quick.

[FanRuth714]

In my view, 90% of the venom on hitting boards everywhere on the web comes from one origination point.
Reply With Quote

so true.....

[Chris O'Leary]

If frames were missing, when watching back frame by frame, wouldn't there be some kind of jumping action?

watch the catcher, his glove moves up at the same rate of speed. There is one spot I believe around frame 13 - 14 where it looks like the glove jumps up a bit but this is at the point where the ball is getting close and he needs to get his glove to the spot of the balls arrival. It is also at this point where HGs hands move forward quickly, again, point of commitment. Nothing to drastic.

So lets say, that possibly one frame got dropped. Still a 4 - 4.5 frame swing. Pretty freaking quick.

This looks like a 60FPS, de-interlaced clip that was stripped down. In that case, the correct number for a good swing would be 9 or 10 frames.

Multiple frames are missing between frames 13 and 14 when the catcher's glove jumps up. There are also multiple frames missing between frame 15 and 16, including the POC.

I have no way of knowing whether this was done deliberately or not, but I do know that this clip isn't good for assessing swing quickness.

[1chapterahead]

In my view, 90% of the venom on hitting boards everywhere on the web comes from one origination point.
Yes, I have the PM's from the Posse to prove it.

[jofus]

:yawn: :blah:

[Mark H]

Yes, I have the PM's from the Posse to prove it.

Does one blame the snarling lion or the kid outside the cage with a stick?

[HYP]

This looks like a 60FPS, de-interlaced clip that was stripped down. In that case, the correct number for a good swing would be 9 or 10 frames.

Multiple frames are missing between frames 13 and 14 when the catcher's glove jumps up. There are also multiple frames missing between frame 15 and 16, including the POC.

I have no way of knowing whether this was done deliberately or not, but I do know that this clip isn't good for assessing swing quickness.

I will concede that you and probably just about everyone, knows more about producing clips then me.

I am going off of the catchers response to the pitch and the only place that it looks like a frame may possibly be missing is between 13 and 14. Between 15 and 16 the catchers response appears normal.

[BoardMember]

I don't think the gif is missing any frames........Just a poor quality camera.......

Looks like 4 frames..........

http://i41.tinypic.com/212yoj.gif

Is this from this year?

[BoardMember]

It's possible that the camera dropped a frame between 2 and 3 in this clip........

The catcher glove seems to "jump" a bit from 2 to 3........The same time the hands "jump forward".........But I think it's a camera issue....

http://i39.tinypic.com/69qp2x.gif

Which happens to be frames 13-14 that HYP recognized.......Unforturnately, this is MID-SWING.........Which would quicken the launch to contact sequence by a frame.......Even so, it would still be 5 frames.........

I still think it's a camera or conversion issue...........

[soceric]

It looks to me like there is a "frame" missing. The bat goes from verticle to flat instantly, and there should be another frame in there...

But that's neither here nor there for me...

I'm technically challenged..

Could someone please spell out how a person would figure out if an actual frame or two was missing, besides just knowing what a swing looks like? Is there some sort of software you use to look at a clip and determine this? Personally I don't think this whole 5 frame swing, or 4 frame swing concept is the holy grail, but I do think it's useful to some degree.

[wrstdude]

]I don't think the gif is missing any frames........Just a poor quality camera.......
[/B]
Looks like 4 frames..........

http://i41.tinypic.com/212yoj.gif

Is this from this year?

:clapping :laugh

I think you just created a giant rift in the space time continuum.

I honestly don't know what year it's from. My guess is it's a couple years old. I agree with your assessment of the swing and the missing frame conspiracy as well....

[BoardMember]

It's possible that the camera dropped a frame between 2 and 3 in this clip........

The catcher glove seems to "jump" a bit from 2 to 3........The same time the hands "jump forward".........But I think it's a camera issue....

Which happens to be frames 13-14 that HYP recognized.......Unforturnately, this is MID-SWING.........Which would quicken the launch to contact sequence by a frame.......Even so, it would still be 5 frames.........

I still think it's a camera or conversion issue...........

Same issue with this older swing.......He just needs a better camera......

http://i39.tinypic.com/69qp2x.gifhttp://i39.tinypic.com/b9d6qt.gif

[1chapterahead]

Does one blame the snarling lion or the kid outside the cage with a stick?Seems to me that you and yours have been spanked so many times by Richard, that you just can't help bring him up in each thread...:D

[Chris O'Leary]

Could someone please spell out how a person would figure out if an actual frame or two was missing, besides just knowing what a swing looks like? Is there some sort of software you use to look at a clip and determine this? Personally I don't think this whole 5 frame swing, or 4 frame swing concept is the holy grail, but I do think it's useful to some degree.

You can't tell once the file has been transcoded into another format like GIF because that strips out the metadata.

Which is why some people transcode files.

It's a way of playing fast and loose with the facts.

[wrstdude]

You can't tell once the file has been transcoded into another format like GIF because that strips out the metadata.

Which is why some people transcode files.

It's a way of playing fast and loose with the facts.

Where do you get your tinfoil hats? I'm running low.

[soceric]

You can't tell once the file has been transcoded into another format like GIF because that strips out the metadata.

Which is why some people transcode files.

It's a way of playing fast and loose with the facts.

I see. So there is basically no easy way to know about the missing frames I take it...

But... just looking at the swing it isn't too hard to see he's an upper body type of guy even with a missing frame.

[Jake Patterson]

It's possible that the camera dropped a frame between 2 and 3 in this clip........

The catcher glove seems to "jump" a bit from 2 to 3........The same time the hands "jump forward".........But I think it's a camera issue....

http://i39.tinypic.com/69qp2x.gif

Which happens to be frames 13-14 that HYP recognized.......Unforturnately, this is MID-SWING.........Which would quicken the launch to contact sequence by a frame.......Even so, it would still be 5 frames.........

I still think it's a camera or conversion issue...........
Thanks Board...

[wrstdude]

Well that was quick. I thank you for taking this out of Casey's thread but I'm unlikely to answer your question. Since I understand you to be part of the HI crew I assume duplicity (first and or second hand) and a desire to attack rather than an interest in good faith inquiry and discussion. If this is not true in your case, I apolgize and suggest you reconsider your associations.

If it was he may not have been aware. Like I said, first or second hand duplicity. In my view, 90% of the venom on hitting boards everywhere on the web comes from one origination point.

Does one blame the snarling lion or the kid outside the cage with a stick?

So after BM's response do you feel comfortable answering or posting something relevant to the topic at hand or are you going to continue to litter the thread with "camp talk" like you do most threads?

[jofus]

So, is this a swing where he's trying to utilize the early "THT" at launch that the pool hall guy advocates? I'm not sure I see that in this swing, but I'm just an ignorant hillbilly.

Or am I confused again about which "guru" is saying that the hands have to be active and working against each other at the beginning of the swing? It's hard for us normal dads to keep up sometimes.....

[BoardMember]

So, is this a swing where he's trying to utilize the early "THT" at launch that the pool hall guy advocates? I'm not sure I see that in this swing, but I'm just an ignorant hillbilly.

No, this is an older swing........Same 'ol HG........:D

Or am I confused again about which "guru" is saying that the hands have to be active and working against each other at the beginning of the swing? It's hard for us normal dads to keep up sometimes.....

On this you ARE correct........That's what the concensus is around the billard tables........:nod:

[Mark H]

Casey,

You see why I wanted to keep this out of your thread? :)

[jofus]

On this you ARE correct........That's what the concensus is around the billard tables........:nod:

Well, any time I'm shooting pool, there's usually a few alcoholic beverages involved, so that could explain a few things ;)

[Mark H]

So after BM's response do you feel comfortable answering or posting something relevant to the topic at hand or are you going to continue to litter the thread with "camp talk" like you do most threads?

Does the lion converse with the kid with the stick?

[Deemax]

Does the lion converse with the kid with the stick?

Was the kid with the stick ever a part of the lions pride?..... And was the kids stick actually a bat?

:noidea

[HYP]

Does the lion converse with the kid with the stick?


Who is the lion and who's the kid? Not afraid to be devoured are you?

[wrstdude]

Casey,

You see why I wanted to keep this out of your thread? :)

The only reason why it's gotten as far as it has, is because you won't answer the question. If you would've answered the question in your first post, it'd be a pretty short thread, but you wanted to bring camps into it.

You and Oleary are usually the reason why "camps" are brought into the discussion in the first place. You can't take a breath with out Richard, HI, Pool Hall, Bartender or any other of your cute little names coming out of your mouth. Your obsession is quite pathetic actually. The fact that you're still here and HG isn't is mind boggling. You offer nothing.

You've got you, talking about camps and how HI is bad in every post you make, and you've got the self-proclaimed expert running around telling everyone how important he is.

And HG isn't even allowed to post here to tell us about his meeting with JBooth. There aren't enough words in the English language to describe the travesty.

Does the lion converse with the kid with the stick?

I'm serious when I ask you this. What is wrong with you? You really need help.

[HYP]

The only reason why it's gotten as far as it has, is because you won't answer the question. If you would've answered the question in your first post, it'd be a pretty short thread, but you wanted to bring camps into it.

You and Oleary are usually the reason why "camps" are brought into the discussion in the first place. You can't take a breath with out Richard, HI, Pool Hall, Bartender or any other of your cute little names coming out of your mouth. Your obsession is quite pathetic actually. The fact that you're still here and HG isn't is mind boggling. You offer nothing.

You've got you, talking about camps and how HI is bad in every post you make, and you've got the self-proclaimed expert running around telling everyone how important he is.

And HG isn't even allowed to post here to tell us about his meeting with JBooth. There aren't enough words in the English language to describe the travesty.



I'm serious when I ask you this. What is wrong with you? You really need help.

Very well said.:clapping

[CoachB25]

How many frames do you have this swing @?

http://xs536.xs.to/xs536/09092/hr2vsomaha779.gif\

I can't get the clip at my location. Blocked! Was your point the number of frames? You're stating that you didn't understand that anything was missing and so, were you asking if it was 4 frames? Was that your count? If 5 frames, that should be expected shouldn't it since HG is playing at high level. Would we expect to see 6 or above? Again, I can't get any video. So please help out and get this back on track.

[Jake Patterson]

And HG isn't even allowed to post here to tell us about his meeting with JBooth. There aren't enough words in the English language to describe the travesty.
Please don't mislead. You and I have exchanged PM's about this several times so I do not understand your continued need to bring this up. The only reason we have banned members is because of their inability to abide by site rules. Period.

[Jake Patterson]

...tell us about his meeting with JBooth No, but Jim can.

[wrstdude]

\

I can't get the clip at my location. Blocked! Was your point the number of frames? You're stating that you didn't understand that anything was missing and so, were you asking if it was 4 frames? Was that your count? If 5 frames, that should be expected shouldn't it since HG is playing at high level. Would we expect to see 6 or above? Again, I can't get any video. So please help out and get this back on track.

There has to be a point when posting? Well crap...back to the drawing board.

Frame counting has been brought up a number of times. Mark brought it up in his post. I was just curious what his count was and if the swing fit in his description. But, unfortunately, he's like the number of licks it takes to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop......the world may never know.

[wrstdude]

HG was kind enough to send me the raw file, but it's an avi file and I can't convert it-no software.

If someone wants to take a crack at it, I'll send it to you.

Also, tinfoil hats are on sale at Costco if you're worried about the dropped frame conspiracy.

[cubsphill]

HG was kind enough to send me the raw file, but it's an avi file and I can't convert it-no software.

If someone wants to take a crack at it, I'll send it to you.

Also, tinfoil hats are on sale at Costco if you're worried about the dropped frame conspiracy.

I get my gif's out of avi. ill pm you my email

[BoardMember]

HG was kind enough to send me the raw file, but it's an avi file and I can't convert it-no software.

If someone wants to take a crack at it, I'll send it to you.

Also, tinfoil hats are on sale at Costco if you're worried about the dropped frame conspiracy.

Send it to me here:

FBI Forensic Video Analysis (mailto: fastpitchnut@comcast.net)

[jofus]

So, is this a swing where he's trying to utilize the early "THT" at launch that the pool hall guy advocates? I'm not sure I see that in this swing, but I'm just an ignorant hillbilly.



Speaking of answering questions, have you answered this one?

I'm guessing it isn't, since to the best of my knowledge HG is not currently with a team (apologies to HG if that is incorrect), and he just started working with the infamous Richard very recently, I believe?


BTW....it continues to tickle me just a little when people who are in Richard's "camp" complain about others' posting trends. I may have not seen everyone that's ever posted on a baseball/softball board, but he is the worst among those that I have seen, in regards to respect shown to others.

[Mark H]

Who is the lion and who's the kid? Not afraid to be devoured are you?

Reread the thread.

[Mark H]

I'm serious when I ask you this. What is wrong with you? You really need help.

Because I won't give you the time of day?

[wrstdude]

I get my gif's out of avi. ill pm you my email

Send it to me here:

FBI Forensic Video Analysis (mailto: fastpitchnut@comcast.net)

Sent!

Look out for missing frames that I may or may not have intentionally deleted. :D

[wrstdude]

Because I won't give you the time of day?

Yeah, that's it...

[wrstdude]

Speaking of answering questions, have you answered this one?

I'm guessing it isn't, since to the best of my knowledge HG is not currently with a team (apologies to HG if that is incorrect), and he just started working with the infamous Richard very recently, I believe?


BTW....it continues to tickle me just a little when people who are in Richard's "camp" complain about others' posting trends. I may have not seen everyone that's ever posted on a baseball/softball board, but he is the worst among those that I have seen, in regards to respect shown to others.

I also get tickled when people expect me to answer questions when I can't get the common courtesy. Unlike Mark, I'm not afraid.

No he wasn't trying THT in the clip. The clip is from '07 I believe. Long before his association, with the Pool Hall Junkie/Bartender/Pizza Boy...

[cubsphill]

The original video file is at 20 fps.

Here is the clip at the 20fps:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/cubsphill/hg1.gif

And here it is after I opened it in Sony Vegas, re-rendered it to avi which got it to 29.something fps. For some reason when I convert it to a gif, the max fps I can get is 25fps.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/cubsphill/hg2.gif

[Chris O'Leary]

The original video file is at 20 fps.

Here is the clip at the 20fps:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/cubsphill/hg1.gif

It's 4, 20FPS frames from heel plant to the POC which makes it 5.5 to 6 standard frames.

[soceric]

The original video file is at 20 fps.

Here is the clip at the 20fps:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/cubsphill/hg1.gif

And here it is after I opened it in Sony Vegas, re-rendered it in avi which got it to 29.something fps. For some reason when I convert it to a gif, the max fps I can get is 25fps.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v434/cubsphill/hg2.gif

Just a question from the technically challenged here...

How can you start with 20 fps, and convert it to 29.something fps??

Wouldn't that be adding frames? Frames that didn't exist in the first place?

[Chris O'Leary]

Just a question from the technically challenged here...

How can you start with 20 fps, and convert it to 29.something fps??

Wouldn't that be adding frames? Frames that didn't exist in the first place?

Often this is done by doubling every 2nd or 3rd frame (or interframe), depending on the frame rates involved.

That's why you often have to strip out frames from clips that were shot in a different format and then converted for broadcast (e.g. going from PAL to NTSC in the case of footage originating in Japan or footage that was shot with a 24FPS motion picture camera).

[cubsphill]

Just a question from the technically challenged here...

How can you start with 20 fps, and convert it to 29.something fps??

Wouldn't that be adding frames? Frames that didn't exist in the first place?

I have no clue, I was just playing around and somehow got it. Therefore the last clip is kind of....:shrug:

[soceric]

Often this is done by doubling every 2nd or 3rd frame (or interframe), depending on the frame rates involved.

That's why you often have to strip out frames from clips that were shot in a different format and then converted for broadcast (e.g. going from PAL to NTSC in the case of footage originating in Japan or footage that was shot with a 24FPS motion picture camera).

So if you double up some frames, wouldn't that have the effect of the action playing in a less than smooth way especially in slow motion? And... If you have to strip out frames to compensate, could this account for the missing frames in some of the gifs? I would guess that the frames aren't manually stripped out, but that whatever software converts the clip has some way of doing it automatically. Does all of that sound plausible?

[jofus]

I also get tickled when people expect me to answer questions when I can't get the common courtesy. Unlike Mark, I'm not afraid.

No he wasn't trying THT in the clip. The clip is from '07 I believe. Long before his association, with the Pool Hall Junkie/Bartender/Pizza Boy...


Uhhh....You haven't asked me any questions that I know of.

Do you have any game swings after he has worked with JoeBad? I am curious to see if the THT is making a difference.

[wrstdude]

Uhhh....You haven't asked me any questions that I know of.

Do you have any game swings after he has worked with JoeBad? I am curious to see if the THT is making a difference.

I haven't seen any yet. He was recovering from a labrum tear I believe. I'm not sure if he's fully rehabbed and taking "game" swings yet.

He has said he definitely feels a difference.

[Ursa Major]

Yup, the clip was from 2007 when he was playing for the Oklahoma Red Hawks.

So what is the point in showing a two-year old clip in the first place? I'm still wondering that. I don't think you have to be in need of a tinfoil hat to suspect some snarky ulterior motive ... unless and until you explain your objective. Wurstdude, maybe if you had a history of offering helpful instruction, cues and drills that would help others teach high level swings to their students, some of us might give you the benefit of the doubt and patiently wait for you to spring on us the learning point to be derived from this swing. But.... we're .... stil .....waiting for the first time that you actually do so.