icing a pitchers arm

[son who is sidearm]

i would like opinions on this plz.

i have been told that a pitcher should ice thier arm after they pitch. why is that? if the arm is not sore or hurt does it realy help?

(a little back ground)
my son has never iced his arm after he has pitched. he just takes a long hot shower and 2 tylenol or whatever pain relievers we have in the cubbard. he has only complained once and that was when a coach tried to force him to raise & change his arm slot and i shut him down for a couple of weeks till there was no discomfort and let him go back to his natural way of throwing.

my son is 14 and been pitching for the past 4 years. we work pretty much year round. during the offseason he throws 1 time a week and about 100-110 pitches in the bullpen. we generally do a progression toss to warm up 45 to 110 feet total 40 throws, during season the coaches work him on their program and i dont work with him during that time.

i know this sounds extreme to some ppl but he does not complain of arm sorness or any discomfort in the arm or shoulder. my son and i have a very good relationship and he understands that he has to tell me if he does feel discomfort. if he does not, that he could end up with problems if he tried to throw when he was hurting with soreness of any kind.

[AL_DAD]

My son does not ice unless his arm hurts. I also believe Tim Lincecum was asked why doesnt he ice his arm after pitching, his answer was something like "I am not hurt, why should I ice it"...go figure.

[kylebee]

First of all, your workout program doesn't sound extreme, though he should be throwing long toss or just playing catch more than once a week. Taking multiple days off just leads to atrophy. Rest is important, but there's things you can do that aren't pitching that keep your arm in shape (SPRI bands, wrist weights, yoga, stretching, bodyweight work, light DB work).

Secondly, ice has never shown to do much other than passively increase bloodflow to the area where it is being applied. A few Japanese studies showed that running and ice helped slightly, but it's nothing major. Read what Steven Ellis said here:

http://www.stevenellis.com/steven_ellis_the_complete/2006/03/should_pitchers.html

Ice initially restricts bloodflow, but after taking it off, the affected area will open up significantly to rush blood to the area. However, a nice short jog and a hot shower will also do the same thing.

Taking anti-inflammatories treats the symptom of the problem - not the cause. Ibuprofen is better if you're going to use OTC medication, but if your son is experiencing a sore elbow (which you said he isn't), you need to change the way he applies force to the baseball.

Why is he taking OTC medication for pain if he experiences none? I would stop this immediately.

[wogdoggy]

First of all, your workout program doesn't sound extreme, though he should be throwing long toss or just playing catch more than once a week. Taking multiple days off just leads to atrophy. Rest is important, but there's things you can do that aren't pitching that keep your arm in shape (SPRI bands, wrist weights, yoga, stretching, bodyweight work, light DB work).

Secondly, ice has never shown to do much other than passively increase bloodflow to the area where it is being applied. A few Japanese studies showed that running and ice helped slightly, but it's nothing major. Read what Steven Ellis said here:

http://www.stevenellis.com/steven_ellis_the_complete/2006/03/should_pitchers.html

Ice initially restricts bloodflow, but after taking it off, the affected area will open up significantly to rush blood to the area. However, a nice short jog and a hot shower will also do the same thing.

Taking anti-inflammatories treats the symptom of the problem - not the cause. Ibuprofen is better if you're going to use OTC medication, but if your son is experiencing a sore elbow (which you said he isn't), you need to change the way he applies force to the baseball.

Why is he taking OTC medication for pain if he experiences none? I would stop this immediately.

great advice !!:clapping

[Chris O'Leary]

i have been told that a pitcher should ice thier arm after they pitch. why is that? if the arm is not sore or hurt does it realy help?

No.

It could actually hurt due to restricting blood flow.

Only ice if there is a painful injury, not due to normal soreness.


my son has never iced his arm after he has pitched. he just takes a long hot shower and 2 tylenol or whatever pain relievers we have in the cubbard.

I would ease off on the Tylenol and only take it if necessary.

[azmatsfan]

First of all, your workout program doesn't sound extreme, though he should be throwing long toss or just playing catch more than once a week. .

Not trying to highjack the thread, but I have a question about long toss. My son is 10 and is gifted with a strong arm. As he's gotten older I don't work with him in the bullpen any more since he already gets bullpen work at his practices and I don't want to overwork his arm. In the off season instead of pitching off the mound we do a lot of long toss. He's never had a sore arm, and I'm very protective. (He's 10 and throws around 70 mph.) My question is: Is it possible to do too much long toss? My son asked me why it hurts the arm to pitch too much, yet it's OK to do long toss every other day. I told him I don't know. Is it because he's not on a mound?

Pitching is a frustrating thing. If my son wants to get better at shooting free throws, he can go out and shoot 100 FTs every day. But with pitching he can't go out and throw 100 pitches off a mound every day. Like I said, I'm protective of his arm. I don't want him to blow out his shoulder and in H.S. talk about his glory days when he threw a no-hitter in 9/10 All-Stars.

[wogdoggy]

Not trying to highjack the thread, but I have a question about long toss. My son is 10 and is gifted with a strong arm. As he's gotten older I don't work with him in the bullpen any more since he already gets bullpen work at his practices and I don't want to overwork his arm. In the off season instead of pitching off the mound we do a lot of long toss. He's never had a sore arm, and I'm very protective. (He's 10 and throws around 70 mph.) My question is: Is it possible to do too much long toss? My son asked me why it hurts the arm to pitch too much, yet it's OK to do long toss every other day. I told him I don't know. Is it because he's not on a mound?

Pitching is a frustrating thing. If my son wants to get better at shooting free throws, he can go out and shoot 100 FTs every day. But with pitching he can't go out and throw 100 pitches off a mound every day. Like I said, I'm protective of his arm. I don't want him to blow out his shoulder and in H.S. talk about his glory days when he threw a no-hitter in 9/10 All-Stars.


wow 10 yr old throwin 70...thats impressive :nod:

[Chris O'Leary]

Is it possible to do too much long toss?

Yes.


My son asked me why it hurts the arm to pitch too much, yet it's OK to do long toss every other day. I told him I don't know. Is it because he's not on a mound?

While long toss isn't as bad as in-game pitching due to...

1. Lower levels of stress hormones.
2. Generally better timing.

...he's still 10 and has open growth plates and thus is vulnerable to growth plate injuries due to general overuse.

Anyone who says the problem with kids nowadays is that they don't throw enough doesn't understand growth plates.


Pitching is a frustrating thing. If my son wants to get better at shooting free throws, he can go out and shoot 100 FTs every day. But with pitching he can't go out and throw 100 pitches off a mound every day. Like I said, I'm protective of his arm. I don't want him to blow out his shoulder and in H.S. talk about his glory days when he threw a no-hitter in 9/10 All-Stars.

His success at this age will have basically no impact on his long-term prospects, so you're right to be cautious.

I can show you video after video of solid pitchers who didn't pitch until high school or college.

[kylebee]

Not trying to highjack the thread, but I have a question about long toss. My son is 10 and is gifted with a strong arm. As he's gotten older I don't work with him in the bullpen any more since he already gets bullpen work at his practices and I don't want to overwork his arm. In the off season instead of pitching off the mound we do a lot of long toss. He's never had a sore arm, and I'm very protective. (He's 10 and throws around 70 mph.) My question is: Is it possible to do too much long toss? My son asked me why it hurts the arm to pitch too much, yet it's OK to do long toss every other day. I told him I don't know. Is it because he's not on a mound?

I absolutely agree with your strategy of not working with your son in bullpens if he's already getting this specific work in practice. Good for you. :thumbsup:

Long toss is great. In fact, it doesn't have to be even that involved. Just getting outside every day to throw a baseball around and stretch out does wonders for you. Throwing off a mound with maximal effort definitely stresses the arm significantly more than simply playing catch and/or throwing long toss. When you add in breaking balls thrown with a supinated grip, there's no wonder that someone's arm is going to be sore after pitching as compared to simply throwing across a field!

Still, it is definitely possible to do too much long toss. You can't just run out there and throw 200 head-high throws from varying distances every day! I'm sure you aren't, though.

Pitching is a frustrating thing. If my son wants to get better at shooting free throws, he can go out and shoot 100 FTs every day. But with pitching he can't go out and throw 100 pitches off a mound every day. Like I said, I'm protective of his arm. I don't want him to blow out his shoulder and in H.S. talk about his glory days when he threw a no-hitter in 9/10 All-Stars.

Ah, very true. The principle of specificity is a dangerous one - like you said, he can't simply pitch off a mound every day at full intensity to get better, especially at his young age with open growth plates.

I think that you might be looking too much into it - and that's fine! Being a conservative parent for kids who are that young is much better than being too aggressive and getting caught up with how well they do when they're 9 years old. If he's really touching 70 mph at 10 years old, he probably has quite a future ahead of him. You're doing the right thing.

[son who is sidearm]

kyle he does throw during the week with his friends during the off season but i am not around so i really dont know what they do. now during his off season he is in a work out program with several ball players lite isometric weight and general conditioning and alot of running.

the reason he take tylenol or ibuprofun is he runs 15 poles after every time he pitches or bullpen session plus a few triangles and his legs are sore from what he says. my wife is a othopedic RN and she said just give him what we have in the cubbard.

[Chris O'Leary]

the reason he take tylenol or ibuprofun is he runs 15 poles after every time he pitches or bullpen session plus a few triangles and his legs are sore from what he says. my wife is a othopedic RN and she said just give him what we have in the cubbard.

I keep hearing about concerns about kidney and liver toxicity issues with pain relievers, so I think they should be used only when necessary.

[kylebee]

kyle he does throw during the week with his friends during the off season but i am not around so i really dont know what they do. now during his off season he is in a work out program with several ball players lite isometric weight and general conditioning and alot of running.

the reason he take tylenol or ibuprofun is he runs 15 poles after every time he pitches or bullpen session plus a few triangles and his legs are sore from what he says. my wife is a othopedic RN and she said just give him what we have in the cubbard.

Sounds like he's doing just fine.

I would cut back on the painkillers if at all possible. They're not for general soreness, really. It could develop into a bad habit.

[TG Coach]

wow 10 yr old throwin 70...thats impressive :nod:

:rolleyes:

[TG Coach]

My son is a high school soph. He's never iced. He's never had a sore arm. I never iced. I never had any problems (stiffness) until college when I found the transition to the bullpen difficult from an arm conditioning standpoint.

[shake-n-bake]

SWIS, I'd be interested to read any information that you might get on this from other sources.

My son has had a somewhat serious muscle injury (not to his arm) and we immediately started the RICE treatment of it. It was really effective and the injury didn't reoccur - which we were expecting when football season started.

We haven't iced his arm before. He had some soreness recently, but that's the first time in probably over a year I've heard him complain about that. A heating pad, some stretching, and a couple Aleve seemed to do the job.

It didn't seem like anything serious, but I'm always a little concerned when he says his arm hurts. When you're talking about a kid, especially my son's only 11, I'm always more concerned about why it hurts in the first place and what we need to do or stop doing.

[azmatsfan]

:rolleyes:

That's fine if you're skeptical. I only mentioned it as to why I'm so protective of his arm. It would be tempting for a coach (or dad) to allow him to be overused. He understands he's lucky to have been blessed with such a strong arm, and he shouldn't take it for granted.

Sorry, SWIS, for high-jacking some of the thread.

[LAball]

Ice does nothing for the joint or muscle, there is no way for the temperature to penitrate that deep. it is good for pain reliefe in that you feel the cold instead of pain. It only cools the skin and would never be able to have any significant temerature change to deep tissue

Ibuprofen has antiinflamatory effects but they dont work right away. You need to take it for at least 2 days straight like 6 advils a day before there to be any antiinflamotry effect on the 3rd day.

[LAball]

I keep hearing about concerns about kidney and liver toxicity issues with pain relievers, so I think they should be used only when necessary.

Tylenole is bad for the liver. Ibuprofen is bad for the kidney. You can drink and mix it with Ibuprofen. But drinking mixed with Tylenole is bad.

[son who is sidearm]

ty for the info on the tylenol and ibuprofen. i will make sure i keep it in check and use only when its really needed.

shake np will do. also if u have any ? just pm me. i did hit the ellis site and it seemed to have a lot of information about pitching but not alot about my son's style of pitching. one thing i have noticed and u might want to watch for with ur son make sure his motion is fluid and is not a jerky motion or hick-ups when he is throwing.


azmatsfan np but remember one thing arm strength is only one part of pitching most of the power comes from legs and torso. my son is perfect example of it. now he has had a huge growth spirt in the past 6 months but he is now 5'9 and maybe 115 lbs soking wet. he is throwing in the high 60's to low 70's. i love to see the expressions on ppl faces when they first see him pitch and hear how the heck does he throw so hard. also dont judge his speed at LL distance to me its a false reading. see how he does when he has to pitch from the 60'6" distance.

all the LL stud pitchers from my son"s age group have fallen to the way side and now he is the #1 starter for his JR high for the second straight year. he also just threw his 4th 1 hit shut out and did it throwing only 45 pitches in 4 inning 6 k and no walks when the game was called under mercy rule(sorry for the proud dad syndrome) dang high jacked my own thread(LOL)

[shake-n-bake]

SWIS, it is your thread so it's probably ok if you hijack it. Since the discussion about ice is winding down, I'd like to ask you if your son has always thrown sidearm? Has he ever thought about or made a change and then come back to sidearm? Just wondering. My son pitches sidearm. He's a LL stud, and yes I know that means nothing more than he's good in LL. As adoment as he was about switching to sidearm, he's now as adament about throwing more conventional again. Ever go through this? What happened?

[son who is sidearm]

yes shake he has thrown from different armslots. when he first started throwing this is the way he threw from a low 3/4 armslot to side arm. now once he started LL his coaches said that he was throwing wrong and said over the top is the correct way to throw. they would teach him and tried to get him to throw the way they wanted him to throw on the field (not pitching) but when he would play games he would throw with out thinking and he would come from the low slot. pissed coaches off to all ends.

when he was 10 and wanted to pitch is when i took matters over and started my research. i talked to a 10 year vet of the major league who i came to know thew a bowling league and had him evaluate my son and his mechanics. no coach would let my son pitch till he was 12 and that coach saw the potential. what the x-pro told me and what i learned from the internet and from his current (HS)pitching coach is where he is at today.

now last year a coach tried to get him to pitch from a higher arm slot. he came to me and told me and i said if you feel no discomfort fine. with in 2 weeks my son said he felt some discomfort where the bicep meets the elbow. i told him to talk to the coach tell him. the coaches reply was its just a little soreness cause of the new armslot. it did not go away so i went to the coach and we shut him down for a few weeks till he had no discomfort what so ever. i told him to throw where he was the most comfortable and side arm is where he is at now.

i will say not everyone can throw sidearm or over the top or 3/4. it has to be a natural way a child throws. i feel if u force them to throw from a unnatural slot they will have problems down the road.(that is my thought on it but i am no expert)