should Bonds HR records stick?

[Hank Parks]

This man hit 73 tomatoes when 7 dudes hit over 50 HR during the drug party
When stopped the drugs and tested he hit just about 40 and no man hit 50
Should he mantain these phony HR records?
Is this fair to Maris and Aaron?

[Domenic]

I see no real reason why they shouldn't.

Hank Aaron popped amphetamines like tic-tacs - you don't hear anyone looking to take away his records.

[Seattle1]

This man hit 73 tomatoes when 7 dudes hit over 50 HR during the drug party
When stopped the drugs and tested he hit just about 40 and no man hit 50
Should he mantain these phony HR records?
Is this fair to Maris and Aaron?

I say disallow the "records." They don't really exist after all.

[Mariano_Rivera]

This man hit 73 tomatoes when 7 dudes hit over 50 HR during the drug party
When stopped the drugs and tested he hit just about 40 and no man hit 50
Should he mantain these phony HR records?
Is this fair to Maris and Aaron?

I don't think he every stopped the drugs.

[Captain Cold Nose]

This really isn't a Yankee issue (beyond Maris, but this issue is well beyond just Maris), but Aaron himself said they should.

I know. Hank pretty much only posts here.

[TonyStarks]

This is gonna lead to the "*" talk.

[mikesty]

Why not?

But nothing to do with NYY at all.

[Boston Boxer]

This man hit 73 tomatoes when 7 dudes hit over 50 HR during the drug party
When stopped the drugs and tested he hit just about 40 and no man hit 50
Should he mantain these phony HR records?
Is this fair to Maris and Aaron?

if you strike his records/stats out of the books, you need to do it with every other guys on roids...Mcguire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens, Giambi, Pettitte, Arod, andthe 1000 other guys who have done it. I say whats done is done and there is not way we can single out some guys and not others. It will just be the era of steriods and every players stats in that error will be tainted.

[FedEx]

Yes. Who does it go to? Does his single season go back to McGwire? Who knows he didn't? Okay go to Sosa, who knows he didn't? Maris again, what if he was on amphetamines.

You can't take back what happened, MLB let the roids run wild from the mid 80s to early 2000s, and there is no way we'll ever be able to tell who did what, when and how much... you just can't.

So whatever, let the records stand but just let it be known how he did it.

[clipper]

This is gonna lead to the "*" talk.

I think there is a bigger question. If he doesn't get in the HOF he should not have the record. I always agree with the * for Pete Rose.

Kinda makes Pete look good doesn't it?

Clipper

[Domenic]

If Bonds loses the single-season record, it should go to McGwire.

There is no proof anywhere that McGwire took steroids. He wasn't in the Mitchell Report, there are no DNA-ridden syringes lying around, and he never tested positive for anything. It's innocent until proven guilty, and there is no real evidence against McGwire.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I think there is a bigger question. If he doesn't get in the HOF he should not have the record. I always agree with the * for Pete Rose.

Kinda makes Pete look good doesn't it?

Clipper

What asterisk for Pete Rose?

Pete Rose has done an excellent job of making what could seem to look good for him not look good every time he talks about it. Rose still broke the unbreakable rule, none of these others players did.

[Boston Boxer]

If Bonds loses the single-season record, it should go to McGwire.

There is no proof anywhere that McGwire took steroids. He wasn't in the Mitchell Report, there are no DNA-ridden syringes lying around, and he never tested positive for anything. It's innocent until proven guilty, and there is no real evidence against McGwire.

McGwire is clean...ya, ok.

[Domenic]

McGwire is clean...ya, ok.

I'm not saying he's clean - in fact, I'm fairly certain that McGwire was juicing. At the same time, there's no real evidence that he took steroids. He wasn't in the Mitchell Report, he hasn't been linked to Radomski or McNamee or any of that crowd, and there's no positive test to speak of.

If we are going to penalize McGwire with no evidence, we should just bar everyone that Canseco names in his books. Players like Aaron, Mays, and Schmidt admitted to using amphetamines (with bottles being found in the lockers of all three), yet they get a free pass.

[FedEx]

McGwire is clean...ya, ok.

That's why it's stupid to take records away from anybody, you can go down the list of guys and say "Oh well that guy might have, we don't have proof but the eye test." I mean hell, we don't have proof that Sammy Sosa did steroids but who in their right mind doesn't think he did?

We don't have proof of Luis Gonzalez, hell Rick Reily is giving him an MVP award and taking it away from Bonds. Yeah that 50+ home run power was a natural progression.

It's impossible to go back.

[clipper]

What asterisk for Pete Rose?

Pete Rose has done an excellent job of making what could seem to look good for him not look good every time he talks about it. Rose still broke the unbreakable rule, none of these others players did.

I should have not put Pete with Bonds HR record. This is discussed every year with Pete with HOF voting.

Yes, there is no asterisk for Pete because he is not in HOF. This is confusing and has exceptions. (I actually deleted much of the response because it didn't make sense) My point was the player should not hold a MLB record if he is not recognized in HOF by his peers as valid. I view the records and HOF similar thus the asterisks. I am in the minority here (with the asterisks) and would put Pete and Bonds (and his HR record) in HOF with asterisks for breaking the rules only if they were voted in.

Both were wrong. Pete finally admit to the betting and I feel Bond will flea bargain and admit to steroids. I am actually more upset with that FBI guy for spending "millions" (I really don't know except it was a bunch) with something we all know.

I still don't understand my response but I tried.

Clipper

[NJYankeeFan]

if you strike his records/stats out of the books, you need to do it with every other guys on roids...Mcguire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens, Giambi, Pettitte, Arod, andthe 1000 other guys who have done it. I say whats done is done and there is not way we can single out some guys and not others. It will just be the era of steriods and every players stats in that error will be tainted.

And every guy that cheated with greenies, amphetamines, HgH, and whatever comes up next. Oh and also guys that cheated by tampering with baseballs, using corked bats, stealing signs. Oh yeah and guys that played before integration. And pitchers that pitched before the DH.

Let's start over.

[spark240]

Hank Aaron popped amphetamines like tic-tacs


Players like Aaron, Mays, and Schmidt admitted to using amphetamines (with bottles being found in the lockers of all three)

References?

[Domenic]

Hank Aaron's I Had a Hammer details his "experimenting" with amphetamines in 1968, and passing references to using them throughout his career. In an interview after Bonds broke the record, Aaron mentioned using amphetamines on a near-daily basis - I cannot find the video right now, but I'll keep looking.

Here's an article about Schmidt and Mays (http://www.faniq.com/blog/Amphetamines-in-Baseball-Blog-19359).

[NJYankeeFan]

References?

I believe Aaron only admitted to doing it once, to improve his performance. kinda like Clinton and not inhaling.

“The 500thhome run came against Mike McCormick of the Giants, which meant that Willie Mays was on the field at the time. Willie elected not to have his picture taken with me that day, saying it wasn’t appropriate for him to fraternize with a player whose team had just beaten the Giants. For years Willie had been king and I’m sure that he "During the Pittsburgh drug trials in the mid-1980s, outfielder John Milner testified that Willie Mays introduced him to a liquid amphetamine known as "red juice."wasn’t crazy about me elbowing into his territory. Most fans and critics still considered Willie to be a better player than me. It seems like the only ones who took up my cause were my teammates. Guys like Uecker and Boyer used to argue with the visiting writers who didn’t think I belonged in the class with Mays. It made me feel a little awkward to sit by my locker and hear them going on like that, but don’t think I didn’t appreciate it. [new paragraph begins] Actually, the 1968 season wasn’t the best time to present my case. It was the first time since my rookie year that I didn’t drive in or score 100 runs. I was so frustrated that at one point I tried using a pep pill—a greenie—that one of my teammates gave me. When that thing took hold, I thought I was having a heart attack. It was a stupid thing to do…”

From his autobiography.

Here is a good article.
http://www.cosellout.com/?p=78

"During the Pittsburgh drug trials in the mid-1980s, outfielder John Milner testified that Willie Mays introduced him to a liquid amphetamine known as "red juice.""
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2289509&type=story

"Amphetamines ''have been around the game forever,'' the Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt writes in his new book, ''Clearing the Bases,'' which HarperCollins will publish next month. ''In my day,'' he says, they ''were widely available in major-league clubhouses.''

. . .
"'They were obtainable with a prescription,'' Schmidt writes, ''but be under no illusion that the name on the bottle always coincided with the name of the player taking them before game time.''

The pills energized players, helped get them through a tough series of games, a 162-game schedule played in 182 days. The only thing a player had to do was make sure he didn't take a pill prematurely. Players like to tell of teammates who took pills before games, then had the games rained out and spent the rest of the night climbing walls.

Schmidt doesn't acknowledge in the book that he used greenies, but in a telephone interview Sunday, he said, ''A couple times in my career I bit on it.''

He added: ''There were a few times in my career when I felt I needed help to get in there. I'm a victim; I admit to it. I'm not incriminating myself or players I played with to say we were on amphetamines our entire careers. I just wanted to see what they would do. It was a lack of willpower. You had an impressionable young kid, and someone says, 'Man you want to feel good?' If I had to do it over, I probably wouldn't do it. You can't put a 56-year-old head on a 28-year-old kid.'' "

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E03E4D81631F93BA15751C0A9609C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

[White Knight]

This man hit 73 tomatoes when 7 dudes hit over 50 HR during the drug party
When stopped the drugs and tested he hit just about 40 and no man hit 50
Should he mantain these phony HR records?
Is this fair to Maris and Aaron?

If it doesn't get you high or buzzed, it's not a drug period.