Advice Needed Involving an Unfortunate Situation in H.S. Baseball

[Gap_Finder_08]

I am a first year JV coach at a inner city school that has poor enrollment, poor educational ratings and poor participation in boys athletics. I volunteered with the Varsity team last year and we lost every single game. I coached the RBI summer team with the goal of trying to help turn things around. I like the school, I like the Varsity coach who truly cares about the kids and I like the kids who come out.

Problem:

24 kids came out this year for Varsity and JV. As of today, 22 are eligible. One of the kids is a foreign exchange student who has never played baseball in his life. 2 others have never played and 2 more look like they have never played. We need a total of 24 to field a V and JV team. By my count, that leaves about 17 kids who might be able to contribute. The top players continuously play down to their surroundings and it looks like we are in for another very long season.

We are in the middle of "tryouts." tomorrow is the last day. I put "tryouts" in quotes because every kid knows they will make it.

I want to know what you all think about this idea that I just posed to the V coach:

We bite the bullet and just have a V team this year. We don't actually make cuts but keep everyone and have two teams- a black and orange team- divided equally who will practice together and play informal games against each other on certain days. Only a certain amount of kids actually will dress for the V games, but that will be determined by effort and ability in practice. I think some of the kids (maybe 4 or 5) will quit and not stick it out- but the goal would be not to fall below 18. This would give the younger kids who want to pitch an oppty. to get innings in, in an effort to really improve and maybe take the mound in a V game.

The underlying goal would be to turn things around. To get a group of kids who are committed to the cause of turning things around and would play summer ball and start working out year round and also get out there and get there friends to come to the school to play. The school that all of the kids (who live in our district) go to, had 80 kids come out for the team. I'm thinking that we could use some of those kids on our team. And we could use some of our kids who are committed to the cause, to recruit some of those kids they know.

I'm feeling ambitious and I think we can turn this around- but it is going to take time and the only way I see it turning around is to build a good reputation. Because frankly, part of the downfall with the athletic programs is neglect.

I know all of the kids well since I coached over the summer and I think my young age is beneficial when dealing with them. I talked with them today after "tryouts" and they said they were embarrassed for their school. They seemed genuine in their desire to be committed. I think I have the ability to keep them committed. I think the V coach has the ability to keep them committed.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on my proposal and if you have any ideas. Thanks in Advance!

[conky149er]

I am a first year JV coach at a inner city school that has poor enrollment, poor educational ratings and poor participation in boys athletics. I volunteered with the Varsity team last year and we lost every single game. I coached the RBI summer team with the goal of trying to help turn things around. I like the school, I like the Varsity coach who truly cares about the kids and I like the kids who come out.

Problem:

24 kids came out this year for Varsity and JV. As of today, 22 are eligible. One of the kids is a foreign exchange student who has never played baseball in his life. 2 others have never played and 2 more look like they have never played. We need a total of 24 to field a V and JV team. By my count, that leaves about 17 kids who might be able to contribute. The top players continuously play down to their surroundings and it looks like we are in for another very long season.

We are in the middle of "tryouts." tomorrow is the last day. I put "tryouts" in quotes because every kid knows they will make it.

I want to know what you all think about this idea that I just posed to the V coach:

We bite the bullet and just have a V team this year. We don't actually make cuts but keep everyone and have two teams- a black and orange team- divided equally who will practice together and play informal games against each other on certain days. Only a certain amount of kids actually will dress for the V games, but that will be determined by effort and ability in practice. I think some of the kids (maybe 4 or 5) will quit and not stick it out- but the goal would be not to fall below 18. This would give the younger kids who want to pitch an oppty. to get innings in, in an effort to really improve and maybe take the mound in a V game.

The underlying goal would be to turn things around. To get a group of kids who are committed to the cause of turning things around and would play summer ball and start working out year round and also get out there and get there friends to come to the school to play. The school that all of the kids (who live in our district) go to, had 80 kids come out for the team. I'm thinking that we could use some of those kids on our team. And we could use some of our kids who are committed to the cause, to recruit some of those kids they know.

I'm feeling ambitious and I think we can turn this around- but it is going to take time and the only way I see it turning around is to build a good reputation. Because frankly, part of the downfall with the athletic programs is neglect.

I know all of the kids well since I coached over the summer and I think my young age is beneficial when dealing with them. I talked with them today after "tryouts" and they said they were embarrassed for their school. They seemed genuine in their desire to be committed. I think I have the ability to keep them committed. I think the V coach has the ability to keep them committed.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on my proposal and if you have any ideas. Thanks in Advance!

if you lived in my town, id come out for your team asap, dont care if i have to walk, your lucky to have a team at all

anyway to answer your question, have only 1 team, you wanna have a good seaosn, have 1 team, make them earn there way on you no, Darwinism man, survival of the fitest, only the best make the team

the second everyone knows they are making the team, theyve basically given up, so dont give them the option of playing down to the surroundings

[Jake Patterson]

I am a first year JV coach at a inner city school that has poor enrollment, poor educational ratings and poor participation in boys athletics. I volunteered with the Varsity team last year and we lost every single game. I coached the RBI summer team with the goal of trying to help turn things around. I like the school, I like the Varsity coach who truly cares about the kids and I like the kids who come out.

Problem:

24 kids came out this year for Varsity and JV. As of today, 22 are eligible. One of the kids is a foreign exchange student who has never played baseball in his life. 2 others have never played and 2 more look like they have never played. We need a total of 24 to field a V and JV team. By my count, that leaves about 17 kids who might be able to contribute. The top players continuously play down to their surroundings and it looks like we are in for another very long season.

We are in the middle of "tryouts." tomorrow is the last day. I put "tryouts" in quotes because every kid knows they will make it.

I want to know what you all think about this idea that I just posed to the V coach:

We bite the bullet and just have a V team this year. We don't actually make cuts but keep everyone and have two teams- a black and orange team- divided equally who will practice together and play informal games against each other on certain days. Only a certain amount of kids actually will dress for the V games, but that will be determined by effort and ability in practice. I think some of the kids (maybe 4 or 5) will quit and not stick it out- but the goal would be not to fall below 18. This would give the younger kids who want to pitch an oppty. to get innings in, in an effort to really improve and maybe take the mound in a V game.

The underlying goal would be to turn things around. To get a group of kids who are committed to the cause of turning things around and would play summer ball and start working out year round and also get out there and get there friends to come to the school to play. The school that all of the kids (who live in our district) go to, had 80 kids come out for the team. I'm thinking that we could use some of those kids on our team. And we could use some of our kids who are committed to the cause, to recruit some of those kids they know.

I'm feeling ambitious and I think we can turn this around- but it is going to take time and the only way I see it turning around is to build a good reputation. Because frankly, part of the downfall with the athletic programs is neglect.

I know all of the kids well since I coached over the summer and I think my young age is beneficial when dealing with them. I talked with them today after "tryouts" and they said they were embarrassed for their school. They seemed genuine in their desire to be committed. I think I have the ability to keep them committed. I think the V coach has the ability to keep them committed.

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on my proposal and if you have any ideas. Thanks in Advance!
Gap, been there....
My advice is don't stretch the meager resources and talent you have. Run a varsity program and keep those who cannot play as a practice squad. Suit up the top 15 for games and let the practice squad know they can work their way into the line up. Let them know if they contribute, make every practice, and work hard at learning that you will award them a varsity letter. Sell them on the importance the letter might make later on in their lives. The key here will be practice organization. You will need to work with the varsity coach to provide the varsity squad quality practices while teaching the practice squad.

[Baseball gLove]

I know of a couple of schools that do not cut. The extra players are told up front that they should not expect to play in any game. One of these coaches ended up playing those kids in a couple of non-league games despite it costing them a national ranking.

[azmatsfan]

Gap, is this a 3 or 4 year HS? And is there a Freshman team? My concern with cutting some of the kids would be the team might be loaded with Jrs and Srs, and you're not developing the Frs and Sos. Good luck this season. There's nothing more rewarding that helping kids reach their full potential.

[Chris O'Leary]

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on my proposal and if you have any ideas. Thanks in Advance!

I like it.

It removes the entitlement mentality (playing out of the team's necessity) and might teach some of the kids something about working to get what you want (rather than just lucking into it).

[Chris O'Leary]

I know of a couple of schools that do not cut. The extra players are told up front that they should not expect to play in any game. One of these coaches ended up playing those kids in a couple of non-league games despite it costing them a national ranking.

That's a great program and a coach who gets it.

[Deemax]

I'm wondering what your thoughts are on my proposal and if you have any ideas. Thanks in Advance!


Before going to only a V team make an effort to hit up the basketball and football coaches. Talk to them about encouraging some of their eligible athletes to come out for baseball. I have seen this work wonders at another school. If that fails, then you have to do what you have to do.... One team.

-Good luck

[Gap_Finder_08]

Gap, is this a 3 or 4 year HS? And is there a Freshman team? My concern with cutting some of the kids would be the team might be loaded with Jrs and Srs, and you're not developing the Frs and Sos. Good luck this season. There's nothing more rewarding that helping kids reach their full potential.

thanks az. its a 4 yr h.s. we have 4 seniors- one of which could play ball at another school. the other three includes one brave female and two others who wouldn't be everyday players. there are a lot of juniors who are probably the biggest obstacle to changing the mindset because they are the ones who still think that they can come when they want and not suffer any consequences. there are about 7 soph and freshman that would likely be everyday players compared to the rest. but there will still be about 4 underclassmen that will suffer with just one team. those four kids are always there, listen and work hard, but won't cut it at the v level. so you are right. there will be a few that are negatively impacted by this and I will feel very bad about that.

[Gap_Finder_08]

Before going to only a V team make an effort to hit up the basketball and football coaches. Talk to them about encouraging some of their eligible athletes to come out for baseball. I have seen this work wonders at another school. If that fails, then you have to do what you have to do.... One team.

-Good luck

thanks for the suggestion deemax and that is a good idea. the v baseball coach is also the basketball coach and we will have 3 kids come out from that team. football is as sad as baseball. I think they started the season with 35 to 40 kids and ended it with about 20 some.

basketball season is still going so I have been running the baseball program so far. I am not a teacher and am fortunate to have a job with flexibility where I often just come back to the office after practice and work late or come in early (benefits of being single with no kids). today we had 13 kids show up. I feel dejected and sad about it all. I'm beginning to question why it is worth the extra effort of busy days at work, trying to get stuff done fast so I can get out early and work with these kids. I want to be in an urban setting, but at what point is enough is enough at a school where the majority of the kids don't care that much anyway?

[omg]

For logistical reasons I would keep the jv and yes you will get your butts kicked. The school has money to pay for those fields and umpires, maybe your salary: wouldn't want to sacrifice your resources.

You can still implement the majority of your idea which is good. Be creative in scheduling games (jv and varsity on different days) and play some guys on both teams. Develop your pitchers even if it means pitching your best guy on jv. Achieve some success if you can: schedule other folks in like circumstances.

You are definitely on the right track with your ideas and I applaud you for where you are coaching. Most wouldn't do it.

[Ursa Major]

Before giving up, maybe you can scour the school -- and as Deemax points out, seeing if you can get basketball and football players out -- to see what you can get.

You might want to have the varsity and JV kids practice together and then have your lower level squad play some of the private schools in the area. Often these are in a similar boat -- they'll be may 250 kids in the whole school and every kid who wants to play on a sports team gets to (after all, Mumsy and Daddy are paying $25K a year tuition), and they'll be pretty weak as well.

Obviously, what you need to do is to develope a relationship and rep with the local youth leagues. If they know that there's a possible varsity opportunity out there, you'll get some interest going. Maybe have a sports camp for middle school aged kids and give them a school t-shirt at the end of camp. Yeah, you won't get too many superstars out of it, but you won't have the foreign exchange student types who don't know how to grip a bat either. I worry that if you don't have a JV squad at all, the marginal kids who maybe just need a little time to either develop their skills or get their growth will be discouraged from coming or even striving to be ready to come out for the team. Lots of great programs started out with nothing.

I know it's a tough sacrifice to make when this year will be a stinker, baseball wise. But, just enjoy the kids for the kids and students they are, and not worry so much about what kinds of baseball players you're getting or turning out. Hopefully there will be some rewards in that for you. Oh, but don't expect anyone to say thank you at the end of it all. Doesn't happen much.

[Drill]

Before giving up, maybe you can scour the school -- and as Deemax points out, seeing if you can get basketball and football players out -- to see what you can get.

You might want to have the varsity and JV kids practice together and then have your lower level squad play some of the private schools in the area. Often these are in a similar boat -- they'll be may 250 kids in the whole school and every kid who wants to play on a sports team gets to (after all, Mumsy and Daddy are paying $25K a year tuition), and they'll be pretty weak as well.

Obviously, what you need to do is to develope a relationship and rep with the local youth leagues. If they know that there's a possible varsity opportunity out there, you'll get some interest going. Maybe have a sports camp for middle school aged kids and give them a school t-shirt at the end of camp. Yeah, you won't get too many superstars out of it, but you won't have the foreign exchange student types who don't know how to grip a bat either. I worry that if you don't have a JV squad at all, the marginal kids who maybe just need a little time to either develop their skills or get their growth will be discouraged from coming or even striving to be ready to come out for the team. Lots of great programs started out with nothing.

I know it's a tough sacrifice to make when this year will be a stinker, baseball wise. But, just enjoy the kids for the kids and students they are, and not worry so much about what kinds of baseball players you're getting or turning out. Hopefully there will be some rewards in that for you. Oh, but don't expect anyone to say thank you at the end of it all. Doesn't happen much.

Coach thanks for caring,

drill

[Gap_Finder_08]

I just wanted to update everyone who is interested or responded to this thread. Last week we decided to keep the two levels and do everything we could to get people to come out. We needed 24 to make it work. On our best day we had 20. I suggested, we play 8 JV games and keep the 20 (The 8 games were the ones scheduled with no V game at the same time). Today we recieved eligibility reports for the first 5 games. 4 kids were ineligible.

We had to shut down JV and go with one level. The situation with the kids has become too unpredictable. Three of the 4 ineligible were some of our better players and I think us coaches are somewhat responsible for the ineligible kids.

Our next step is to try and figure out how we can turn this thing around.........

[AgentX]

It's unfortunate, but unifying the programs will make for a stronger varsity program in the long run.

The younger kids who aren't RTP are going to either wash out or stick it out, and eventually, you'll probably end up with more committed players, and talent that you can nurture.

By the time they're RTP, they'll be hungry for it.

Best of luck to you. Keep fighting the good fight.

[Ursa Major]

Our next step is to try and figure out how we can turn this thing around.........Well, we've already talked about building a network among the youth leagues to get them to prepare kids for your level and keep them interested. Maybe you can even visit the older levels and and make an introduction of yourself and your program, tell them what you're looking for, and stick around and watch them practice. While you ultimately may not get the best kids, if you can get a half-dozen decent kids who may not make the roster of the larger schools in the area but somehow have a choice to come to your school instead, you're way ahead of the game. Those teams are forming up now, so the time to catch them is over the next month or two.

Also, you might want to talk to other coaches in the area about having some kind of fall development scrimmaging "league" (it that's legal). This will get kids out and get them some experience, and maybe get them committed to the idea of coming out for the team. If nothing else, they'll be better players come next February. Even if your team isn't good, there are probably plenty of other high school programs doing the same thing who just want to find some competition to get out and play against.

As always, best of luck in fighting the good fight.

Ursa

[Emanski's Heroes]

I would also suggest finding a coach locally, if possible, who has been through a similar situation and built up a very poor program into at least a respectable team. Find out what they did, and see what you can "borrow" from them. If you can't find someone locally, expand your search.

I would also support the idea of getting out to see your feeder programs. Baseball is a sport where pure athleticism is great, but an incredible amount of skill is required, and those skills are best developed over time from a young age. Do your best to make sure the kids in your area have a quality opportunity to play and hopefully have access to some decent coaching. If possible, make yourself available to coach/advise/organize some activities at the lower levels. Provide some camps for the younger kids and make the camps fun (and free if possible). Take whatever kids are interested and provide them with some more intense instruction in the offseason. These are just a few thoughts.

[Gap_Finder_08]

Thanks guys. Those are all great suggestions. There isn't an abundance of of organized baseball options for the kids in this part of Denver. The Denver Police Activities League runs a rec style program that encompasses the entire city and there is a well organized CYO league with the Catholic Churches in the are (alot of them). We also have the RBI program which I coach. Last year I learned that a lot of the kids who could play with the RBI program opted for the Police Activity League and the CYO league because they could be stars and shine above the rest.

What I plan to do is reach out to those leagues and coordinate it so that we don't have conflicting schedules and provide those who run it with information about the RBI program so those same kids will be more likely to play in every league they can. No sense in competing with these programs when we are all fighting for increased participation. The other step, of course, is to get out to the middle schools and get these kids to know who we are and what we are about and get them interested in wanting to play first, and then wanting to play for us second.

The RBI program is essentially our feeder system since none of the kids I have seen so far are at a level where they can play travel ball let alone afford it. The competition isn't great, but my hope is that we can strengthen it as best we can in the years to come and make it what it is in other cities across the U.S.

Recently, I went as far as writing the local councilwoman in the district to get her thoughts on the lack of athletic programs and participation in sports in general- not just baseball. I was surprised to get a response and we are sitting down to meet soon.

I think losing the JV level might be a first for any school in our area. But I certainly will try and seek out anyone who might have been in this type of situation before. I seem to be putting more of an effort into this stuff and wanting to spend more time on this issue than my day job! It must be a way to keep me sane even with such a negative situation and a daunting task ahead!

[Baseball gLove]

I just wanted to update everyone who is interested or responded to this thread. Last week we decided to keep the two levels and do everything we could to get people to come out. We needed 24 to make it work. On our best day we had 20. I suggested, we play 8 JV games and keep the 20 (The 8 games were the ones scheduled with no V game at the same time). Today we recieved eligibility reports for the first 5 games. 4 kids were ineligible.

We had to shut down JV and go with one level. The situation with the kids has become too unpredictable. Three of the 4 ineligible were some of our better players and I think us coaches are somewhat responsible for the ineligible kids.

Our next step is to try and figure out how we can turn this thing around.........

My son's coach has the students circulate a weekly progress report. He requires any student not maintaining their grades to ask their teachers for tutoring. Because the coach is also a math teacher, he will tutor those that are having problems with math.