Baseball players somehow are now held to a higher standard than anyone else.

[Paulypal]

Somehow our athletes are held to a higher standard than any other profession in America...specifically baseball players. How the hell did that happen? I am not saying let the drug taking fly but......

Not to soap box -

Look around,,,feds leaking info, reporters are the scum of the earth and yet this paraisite is now a household name. Our politicians are smoking crack, and chasing hookers...then they get their job back. One of our ex-president has a new defintion of sex. Our teachers are having affairs with their 15 year old students. Our clergy is.........well .....you know. We are at war and in a depression (lets call it what is is), but the feds and congress seem to think Bonds is more important. The NFL has been and still is infested with roids for 30 years, but who cares I guess their faces are covered by helmets. I can probably type two more hours about our political "leaders" but I wont.

With all that .......the news is ARod,,, a baseball player. Before that it was Bonds, Clemens, Canseco dominating not only the back page but the front page. Because of the media and the attention on baseball somehow these guys have to be saints with every move scrutinized. These guys may make more money but the generations before them had it made. Much less media, and the media that was their wouldnt just "rat" a player for the sake of it. They got to make lifes mistakes and not have it on a cell phone camera.

I remember the early to mid 80's when the cocaine thing hit the fan. It wasnt10% this bad. The 1986 Mets were known as a wild bunch on and off the field. Today they couldnt be that.

Lastly the politically correct soccer moms look to athletes to set an example for their kids, but yet mom is on zanix to deal with life, his 15 year old sister is on birth control, and dad is on viagra. How about setting the example in your own house. I would be embaressed if my parents held Andre Dawson (my favorite player as a kid) to higher standard than they did themselves.

I am not saying let steroids go and be taken, but lets not hold these guys to higher standards than we do in our own communities and for some our own homes.

Ok I am done soapboxing.

[west coast orange and black]

paulypal: reporters are the scum of the earth and yet this [parasite] is now a household name

i got through your rant mostly fine, paulypal.
but it is well to remember that the definition of "sexual relations" was not president clinton's rather, one proposed by the prosecution and agreed by the defense.

your use of the present tense re the politicians associated with crack cocaine make me wonder if you are referencing then-mayor marion barry. if yes, then your use of the present tense for an historical event reminds of president's clinton's "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

re the household name reporter: you are upset with the reporter rather than the source of the confidential data? both?

[spark240]

A spot in the public eye means more people see what you're doing, but I don't believe athletes are held to a higher standard. Based on certain comments here, and other evidence, I think many people are more willing to forgive various kinds of transgressions by ballplayers than they are similar transgressions by people they personally know.

reporters are the scum of the earth

Please, get a grip. Most reporters are roughly on a level with public school teachers--often mediocre, occasionally inspired, but performing a valuable social service for (relatively) low pay. Most reporters don't cover sports, you know. The sports section is sometimes known as "the toy department" among the others.

I'm not sure Selena Roberts is "scum of the earth," but in any case she hardly exemplifies the profession.

[Paulypal]

paulypal: reporters are the scum of the earth and yet this [parasite] is now a household name

i got through your rant mostly fine, paulypal.
but it is well to remember that the definition of "sexual relations" was not president clinton's rather, one proposed by the prosecution and agreed by the defense.

your use of the present tense re the politicians associated with crack cocaine make me wonder if you are referencing then-mayor marion barry. if yes, then your use of the present tense for an historical event reminds of president's clinton's "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

re the household name reporter: you are upset with the reporter rather than the source of the confidential data? both?

Clinton spoke them,,,tag he is it.

No I am upset much more with the source, but she is a maggot nontheless. We will see that next month when the book comes out.

[sturg1dj]

A spot in the public eye means more people see what you're doing, but I don't believe athletes are held to a higher standard. Based on certain comments here, and other evidence, I think many people are more willing to forgive various kinds of transgressions by ballplayers than they are similar transgressions by people they personally know.


this may be where we are different. I have had several friends/family do much worse than A-Rod, Bonds, and Clemens and I had no problem forgiving them. Of course I also don't hold any grudges against A-Rod, Bonds or Clemens. Is it different in your life?

[blacksilverfan12]

Great post, Pauly. This is what American society has come to...pathetic, and sad at the same time

[Moses Fleetwood-Walker]

The problem is not that the players are held to a higher standard, the problem is the beatwriters look to be bigger stars than the stars they cover. No other sport can you say that. But in baseball the beatwriters hold highly coveted HOF votes, they write books about players, they're the ones who write the moral crusade articles that herd the sheep (baseball fans). This whole steroid fiasco has elevated those writers once again as the "gatekeepers of morality" and the "protectors of past legacies". The funny thing is most of em are twirps who dont have an athletic bone in their body. I think baseball beatwriters are the most overzealous and the most maniacal of the 3 major sports.

[parlo]

Clinton spoke them,,,tag he is it.

No I am upset much more with the source, but she is a maggot nontheless. We will see that next month when the book comes out.The ol' "shoot the messenger" approach?????
Why don't you cool it with the right wing talk radio rants!

[Westlake]

Really weird how people attack journalists for doing their correctly instead of the player for doing something wrong. There are many channels to go through and boundries that can't be crossed that people don't know about in order to preserve journalistic integrity. You're speaking out about a profession you have no first-hand experience in and probably know nothing about. The other poster is correct, they have a ton of responsibility for the amount of money they make.

Could she not have reported what she uncovered? Sure. But why the heck not? I would have. It's a pressing issue, and its warranted that it should come out. And that's because i've passed up a story that would have done some bad things to my school's football program if I had written it. I passed, but I wouldn't have passed on this one. Roberts is far from the scum of the earth, just like Rodriguez.

[sturg1dj]

Really weird how people attack journalists for doing their correctly instead of the player for doing something wrong. There are many channels to go through and boundries that can't be crossed that people don't know about in order to preserve journalistic integrity. You're speaking out about a profession you have no first-hand experience in and probably know nothing about. The other poster is correct, they have a ton of responsibility for the amount of money they make.

Could she not have reported what she uncovered? Sure. But why the heck not? I would have. It's a pressing issue, and its warranted that it should come out. And that's because i've passed up a story that would have done some bad things to my school's football program if I had written it. I passed, but I wouldn't have passed on this one. Roberts is far from the scum of the earth, just like Rodriguez.

I studied journalism at the beginning of my undergraduate work until I got tired of the crap they were teaching.

let us not forget that traditionally the sports writers were at the bottom of the totem poll of journalism and only somewhat recently (though there are some exceptions) have they made such an attempt to move away from the fluff of sports and tried to make names for themselves as legitimate writers. What is especially worrisome is that it would seem the only investigative journalists in America cover baseball. We should not be arguing whether or not they should have covered the story, the real question is why are these people not covering more important matters? There is a war and a recession going on and yet the most covered story is an athlete using steroids? what is funny is the non-baseball fan is just thinking what else is new.

Just like every other aspect of the world (yes, I am getting more and more cynical) journalism is getting dumber. So what passes as investigative journalism is no longer finding out a deep dark secret of an evil corporation or finding evidence of a corrupt politician...but instead its reporting on an athlete who used steroids from information fed to you, and then never letting it move forward or go away. I hope she wins a Pulitzer just so we can see how low we have come.

[spark240]

There is a war and a recession going on and yet the most covered story is an athlete using steroids?

You're being ridiculous. Various aspects of the economy are getting vastly more coverage. The only way you could think steroids, or anything sports-related, was getting more is if you yourself weren't paying much attention to the wider world.

I just looked at the default Google News page. Eight of the main sections were economy-related, each one representing thousands of current articles. None were steroids-related. Right at this moment, the Ken Griffey Jr. link has even bumped the Alex Rodriguez link out of the "In the News" section.

[BradC34]

I have no response to this thread.

[sturg1dj]

You're being ridiculous. Various aspects of the economy are getting vastly more coverage. The only way you could think steroids, or anything sports-related, was getting more is if you yourself weren't paying much attention to the wider world.

I just looked at the default Google News page. Eight of the main sections were economy-related, each one representing thousands of current articles. None were steroids-related. Right at this moment, the Ken Griffey Jr. link has even bumped the Alex Rodriguez link out of the "In the News" section.

if I have only one fault its that I like to make my points with a measure of panache. Its always great to know that you are here to catch my mistakes. :clapping

(now to make this more the A-Rod stories you should tear what I just said apart, something about how my response was vague and didn't address anything said even though I did say I made a mistake)

[rockin500]

Really weird how people attack journalists for doing their correctly instead of the player for doing something wrong. There are many channels to go through and boundries that can't be crossed that people don't know about in order to preserve journalistic integrity. You're speaking out about a profession you have no first-hand experience in and probably know nothing about. The other poster is correct, they have a ton of responsibility for the amount of money they make.

Could she not have reported what she uncovered? Sure. But why the heck not? I would have. It's a pressing issue, and its warranted that it should come out. And that's because i've passed up a story that would have done some bad things to my school's football program if I had written it. I passed, but I wouldn't have passed on this one. Roberts is far from the scum of the earth, just like Rodriguez.
WHY is it a pressing issue? a player misbehaved. big deal.

[Paulypal]

The ol' "shoot the messenger" approach?????
Why don't you cool it with the right wing talk radio rants!

I dont want to shoot the messenger, but if someone else wants to I say have at it. She is a maggot, as well as who ever leaked it. Funny how this maggot is writing a book about ARod and just happens his name is the only one released......directly to her. Coincidence?

I also think I am pretty much on the left of the steroid subject. The people on the right are the ones that are condeming players.

Maybe you need to get your wings straightened out before you open your beak.

[rockin500]

I also think I am pretty much on the left of the steroid subject. The people on the right are the ones that are condeming players.



not necessarily. I'm pretty far to the right, and i think that condemning the players in ridiculous. ;)

[Paulypal]

I have no response to this thread.

Cool...well while your here and not responding how about getting us a pizza.

[Westlake]

WHY is it a pressing issue? a player misbehaved. big deal.

You really don't think it's a pressing issue? Look at all the threads about it. Look at all the media coverage. It being a pressing issue isnt even up for debate, if you know what 'pressing issue' means.

Do I personally care about A-Rod taking steroids? No. But do I care about the Texas softball team either? No, but I have to report it if one of them is hurt or arrested.

[philipthegreat]

People in the national spotlight are held to a higher standard than those not in the national spotlight.

[bluezebra]

Somehow our athletes are held to a higher standard than any other profession in America...specifically baseball players. How the hell did that happen? I am not saying let the drug taking fly but......

Not to soap box -

Look around,,,feds leaking info, reporters are the scum of the earth and yet this paraisite is now a household name. Our politicians are smoking crack, and chasing hookers...then they get their job back. One of our ex-president has a new defintion of sex. Our teachers are having affairs with their 15 year old students. Our clergy is.........well .....you know. We are at war and in a depression (lets call it what is is), but the feds and congress seem to think Bonds is more important. The NFL has been and still is infested with roids for 30 years, but who cares I guess their faces are covered by helmets. I can probably type two more hours about our political "leaders" but I wont.

With all that .......the news is ARod,,, a baseball player. Before that it was Bonds, Clemens, Canseco dominating not only the back page but the front page. Because of the media and the attention on baseball somehow these guys have to be saints with every move scrutinized. These guys may make more money but the generations before them had it made. Much less media, and the media that was their wouldnt just "rat" a player for the sake of it. They got to make lifes mistakes and not have it on a cell phone camera.

I remember the early to mid 80's when the cocaine thing hit the fan. It wasnt10% this bad. The 1986 Mets were known as a wild bunch on and off the field. Today they couldnt be that.

Lastly the politically correct soccer moms look to athletes to set an example for their kids, but yet mom is on zanix to deal with life, his 15 year old sister is on birth control, and dad is on viagra. How about setting the example in your own house. I would be embaressed if my parents held Andre Dawson (my favorite player as a kid) to higher standard than they did themselves.

I am not saying let steroids go and be taken, but lets not hold these guys to higher standards than we do in our own communities and for some our own homes.

Ok I am done soapboxing.

When someone is making the obscene salaries these ego-maniacs are making, they should be held to high standards,

Bob

[joshfan]

paulypal: reporters are the scum of the earth and yet this [parasite] is now a household name

i got through your rant mostly fine, paulypal.
but it is well to remember that the definition of "sexual relations" was not president clinton's rather, one proposed by the prosecution and agreed by the defense.

your use of the present tense re the politicians associated with crack cocaine make me wonder if you are referencing then-mayor marion barry. if yes, then your use of the present tense for an historical event reminds of president's clinton's "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

re the household name reporter: you are upset with the reporter rather than the source of the confidential data? both?

No in fact it was done by the sitting President on national TV while admonishing us with his finger
the quote is " I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

"That woman" as we remember was a 21 year old intern

[Captain Cold Nose]

Cool...well while your here and not responding how about getting us a pizza.

You probably were unaware, but you were slamming what he has chosen for a profession. He's taking a Falstaffian approach. The better form of valor is discretion.

The players make obscene salaries because the amount of money the sport itself takes in is beyond obscene, if you're going in that direction, Bob. It's entertainment. They're human. The holier-than-thou approach is not one anyone of us has the right to take simply because they have a skillset that is highly monetarily rewarded. It's not their fault, it's one big slippery slope than points heavily back to the public.

[rockin500]

You really don't think it's a pressing issue? Look at all the threads about it. Look at all the media coverage. It being a pressing issue isnt even up for debate, if you know what 'pressing issue' means.

Do I personally care about A-Rod taking steroids? No. But do I care about the Texas softball team either? No, but I have to report it if one of them is hurt or arrested.
I am asking WHY is it so. It shouldnt be a pressing issue.

[parlo]

Somehow our athletes are held to a higher standard than any other profession in America...specifically baseball players. How the hell did that happen? I am not saying let the drug taking fly but......

Not to soap box -

Look around,,,feds leaking info, reporters are the scum of the earth and yet this paraisite is now a household name. Our politicians are smoking crack, and chasing hookers...then they get their job back. One of our ex-president has a new defintion of sex. Our teachers are having affairs with their 15 year old students. Our clergy is.........well .....you know. We are at war and in a depression (lets call it what is is), but the feds and congress seem to think Bonds is more important. The NFL has been and still is infested with roids for 30 years, but who cares I guess their faces are covered by helmets. I can probably type two more hours about our political "leaders" but I wont.

With all that .......the news is ARod,,, a baseball player. Before that it was Bonds, Clemens, Canseco dominating not only the back page but the front page. Because of the media and the attention on baseball somehow these guys have to be saints with every move scrutinized. These guys may make more money but the generations before them had it made. Much less media, and the media that was their wouldnt just "rat" a player for the sake of it. They got to make lifes mistakes and not have it on a cell phone camera.

I remember the early to mid 80's when the cocaine thing hit the fan. It wasnt10% this bad. The 1986 Mets were known as a wild bunch on and off the field. Today they couldnt be that.

Lastly the politically correct soccer moms look to athletes to set an example for their kids, but yet mom is on zanix to deal with life, his 15 year old sister is on birth control, and dad is on viagra. How about setting the example in your own house. I would be embaressed if my parents held Andre Dawson (my favorite player as a kid) to higher standard than they did themselves.

I am not saying let steroids go and be taken, but lets not hold these guys to higher standards than we do in our own communities and for some our own homes.

Ok I am done soapboxing.
[/QUOTE]With all that .......the news is ARod,,, a baseball player. Before that it was Bonds, Clemens, Canseco dominating not only the back page but the front page.[QUOTE]
"Back page" and "front page" is a reference to tabloids.
Tabloids also put Paris Hilton and Britney Spears on the front page. Then you try to paint the entire news media with the same broad brush.
Maybe you just need to start getting your news from less sensationalistic sources.
There are a lot of good sources for news and sports without having to rely on tabloids and cable news shows.

[DownUnderDodger]

Journalists report on what people want to read to read, and most of that is sensationalism, whether it be sport (Baseball in particular at present in USA because of the 'roids debacle), the economy, terrorism, or whatever. Sensationalism sells newspapers and gets people watching/listening to news broadcasts, and creates debate on forums like this.

Please be aware that what is being reported in USA about Baseball, which is apparently taking the headlines ahead of real life issues, is no different to what gets reported about Rugby League or AFL players here, so MLB players may have a mortgage on USA media sensationalism but around the world, whatever the popular sport at the time or place gets the same treatment.

I don't believe it is that the players are held in higher standard, it is more that people relate more to baseball (or many other sports) players than they do to what is happening in the real world. Sport is a focal point in many people's lives, an escape from reality, and hence becomes reality. Players become heros and therefore if they do wrong there are shattering consequences in the eyes of some people, promoted by the media! And the media feed on this as much as the people eat it up.

[Paulypal]

You probably were unaware, but you were slamming what he has chosen for a profession. He's taking a Falstaffian approach. The better form of valor is discretion.

Just as an FYI I sent a private message to BRADC34 apologizing. I thought I would share it:

I wanted to apologize to you. I shouldnt throw a blanket over all reporters/writers like that. One it shows stupidity on my part, and two its not true in all cases. There are a lot of writers that actually love the game, but as you know some just dont. I know reporters have a job to do. The whole approach to ARod to me was infuriating especially since he confessed...holes in the details or not he confessed.

Again I apologize for making an ignorant blanket statement.

[Paulypal]

When someone is making the obscene salaries these ego-maniacs are making, they should be held to high standards,

Bob

That is really ridiculous to expect that. So because they make more money they can never make a mistake? They get paid to play baseball, and yes a certain level civility should and is expected, but that doesnt mean perfection.

Reminds me of the Steinbrenner mentality of the 80's. I will give Ed Whitson a lot more than he is worth as a pitcher, and he will become a better pitcher.

[parlo]

That is really ridiculous to expect that. So because they make more money they can never make a mistake? They get paid to play baseball, and yes a certain level civility should and is expected, but that doesnt mean perfection.

Reminds me of the Steinbrenner mentality of the 80's. I will give Ed Whitson a lot more than he is worth as a pitcher, and he will become a better pitcher.I have yet to read a post here, or any editorial demanding "perfection" from Major League players. Nor have I seen anyone state that players "can never make a mistake". That is simply a straw man argument on your part.

Lots of players have made mistakes. Wade Boggs made mistakes, Keith Hernandez made mistakes. So did David Cone, Eckersley, Paul Molitor etc.
All in all, I find that the public and the press is very forgiving.

I suspect that you are a Yankee fan who just wants the issue to go away.
Rather than address the issue of steroids or HGH, you have chosen to blame the media, and even hurl insults at them.
It's a worn out routine!!!!

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

Somehow our athletes are held to a higher standard than any other profession in America...specifically baseball players. How the hell did that happen? I am not saying let the drug taking fly but......

Not to soap box -

Look around,,,feds leaking info, reporters are the scum of the earth and yet this paraisite is now a household name. Our politicians are smoking crack, and chasing hookers...then they get their job back. One of our ex-president has a new defintion of sex. Our teachers are having affairs with their 15 year old students. Our clergy is.........well .....you know. We are at war and in a depression (lets call it what is is), but the feds and congress seem to think Bonds is more important. The NFL has been and still is infested with roids for 30 years, but who cares I guess their faces are covered by helmets. I can probably type two more hours about our political "leaders" but I wont.

With all that .......the news is ARod,,, a baseball player. Before that it was Bonds, Clemens, Canseco dominating not only the back page but the front page. Because of the media and the attention on baseball somehow these guys have to be saints with every move scrutinized. These guys may make more money but the generations before them had it made. Much less media, and the media that was their wouldnt just "rat" a player for the sake of it. They got to make lifes mistakes and not have it on a cell phone camera.

I remember the early to mid 80's when the cocaine thing hit the fan. It wasnt10% this bad. The 1986 Mets were known as a wild bunch on and off the field. Today they couldnt be that.

Lastly the politically correct soccer moms look to athletes to set an example for their kids, but yet mom is on zanix to deal with life, his 15 year old sister is on birth control, and dad is on viagra. How about setting the example in your own house. I would be embaressed if my parents held Andre Dawson (my favorite player as a kid) to higher standard than they did themselves.

I am not saying let steroids go and be taken, but lets not hold these guys to higher standards than we do in our own communities and for some our own homes.

Ok I am done soapboxing.

Good post. I don't know if I'd have cited some of those examples myself, but I agree with the general theme of the post. Ballplayers make high salaries because that is their market value based on all of the tickets and caps we buy. They are famous because we choose to watch them on ESPN. The only things that they should be scrutinized for are their performance and their actions that affect their clubhouses. They're being paid to play baseball, not kiss babies and thank their mothers. While it's refreshing to see them do those things, it's not their job. They should be scrutinized for the steroid issue - it seriously affects what they're being paid for. But they didn't let the youth of America down. America let its own youth down if it let them idolize and model themselves after celebrities they've never met, rather than the upstanding citizens in their communities. As for the federal government being involved in this investigation, I'm of the belief that they should have bigger fish to fry (and spend tax dollars on). Baseball should clean up its own mess.

[Paulypal]

I have yet to read a post here, or any editorial demanding "perfection" from Major League players. Nor have I seen anyone state that players "can never make a mistake". That is simply a straw man argument on your part.

Lots of players have made mistakes. Wade Boggs made mistakes, Keith Hernandez made mistakes. So did David Cone, Eckersley, Paul Molitor etc.
All in all, I find that the public and the press is very forgiving.

I suspect that you are a Yankee fan who just wants the issue to go away.
Rather than address the issue of steroids or HGH, you have chosen to blame the media, and even hurl insults at them.
It's a worn out routine!!!!

Do you think Hernandez would get away that easy now? If you say yes then your kidding yourself. He you would get hammered. To say the press is forgiving is as stupid as me saying the are all maggots. Some are some arent. I think all true baseball fans would like the issue to go away because its a distraction to people that like to watch it. There is a certain portion of the population that just thinks they are a bunch of ego maniac over-paid blah blah blah. They actually like when someone gets knocked down a wrung or two. I guess this makes them feel better about themselves..I dont know.

Personally their salaries are none of my business just like its none of my business what your salary is. It is also none of my business what they do off the field either. I dont care who they sleep with, if they cheat on their wives, etc. I am in the minority I know but, when we look at the "heroes" of era's past...most of this information wasnt leaked out. They got to remain heroes although they were as human as the next guy.

[sturg1dj]

Do I personally care about A-Rod taking steroids? No. But do I care about the Texas softball team either? No, but I have to report it if one of them is hurt or arrested.

no, you don't. They are kids and kids make mistakes.

but that is where journalism has gone.

[west coast orange and black]

joshfan: No in fact it was done by the sitting President on national TV while admonishing us with his finger
the quote is " I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

you got the quote exactly correct, joshfan. but also correct is that that quote can be seen as legitimate.
the president received, if you will - did not give. and according to the agreement of the definition of "sexual relations," lewinsky's act upon clinton did not amount to the president having sexual relations with lewinsky rather, lewinsky having relations with him. :crazy

at heart in the above is the governing rules, "the rules at the time."
part of the headache of determining which actions amount to cheating is considering the rules at the time.

[sturg1dj]

seriously, Clinton debate? haha




back to reporting....

its not that the act of reporting is what is wrong with journalism today. I will concede that there are some stories that need to be covered. When Mickey Mantle and friends got into a brawl at the Copa it was covered. When Babe Ruth got into a major car accident it was covered. The difference is back then it was reported and that was it, today the writers seem to want to play the part of judge and jury. They feel that we readers are incapable of making our own decisions on anything unless each event is framed a certain way.

[metrotheme]

As a teacher, who works alongside a diligent staff, and has worked in multiple school settings, I feel that you are way off with your comments about school teachers often being mediocre. Most go above and beyond what they need to do, putting in countless extra hours with students uncompensated. They work hard, going to many professional developments to keep their lessons fresh. Maybe you had a poor school experience, but a majority of teachers are above mediocre and are rather inspired.


Please, get a grip. Most reporters are roughly on a level with public school teachers--often mediocre, occasionally inspired, but performing a valuable social service for (relatively) low pay. Most reporters don't cover sports, you know. The sports section is sometimes known as "the toy department" among the others.

I'm not sure Selena Roberts is "scum of the earth," but in any case she hardly exemplifies the profession.

[metrotheme]

Why would you pass on a story that would have negative effects on your school's program, but not pass on a story that really only affect A-Rod (he would have been the same player with or without the steroids). Did you feel like you would have been snitching on your local program?



Could she not have reported what she uncovered? Sure. But why the heck not? I would have. It's a pressing issue, and its warranted that it should come out. And that's because i've passed up a story that would have done some bad things to my school's football program if I had written it. I passed, but I wouldn't have passed on this one. Roberts is far from the scum of the earth, just like Rodriguez.

Any one more comment about the world of reporting. I recently have had access to a few baseball events right around the time the story broke with Torre's book and A-Rod. After one or two questions were asked to the ballplayers about the event and their charitable work, EVERY SINGLE QUESTION was about Torre, A-Rod and the book. They had no REAL desire to cover the event or their charitable efforts, they just wanted a quotable about Torre or his book. It got to the point where the players were frustrated and asked if anyone had anything else to ask about the actual event instead of Torre's book.

The same can be said for music and the rapid decline of social commentary in hip hop music. The labels claim that nobody wants to hear the positivity or the message, so they can excuse off more vapid and soul-less music. The same can be said for the media. "Real" stories aren't interesting, they want to lead the sheep with scandal and nonsense.

[parlo]

Do you think Hernandez would get away that easy now? If you say yes then your kidding yourself. He you would get hammered. To say the press is forgiving is as stupid as me saying the are all maggots. Some are some arent. I think all true baseball fans would like the issue to go away because its a distraction to people that like to watch it. There is a certain portion of the population that just thinks they are a bunch of ego maniac over-paid blah blah blah. They actually like when someone gets knocked down a wrung or two. I guess this makes them feel better about themselves..I dont know.

Personally their salaries are none of my business just like its none of my business what your salary is. It is also none of my business what they do off the field either. I dont care who they sleep with, if they cheat on their wives, etc. I am in the minority I know but, when we look at the "heroes" of era's past...most of this information wasnt leaked out. They got to remain heroes although they were as human as the next guy.
[/QUOTE]I think all true baseball fans would like the issue to go away because its a distraction to people that like to watch it. There is a certain portion of the population that just thinks they are a bunch of ego maniac over-paid blah blah blah. They actually like when someone gets knocked down a wrung or two. I guess this makes them feel better about themselves..I dont know.[QUOTE]
So people who agree with you are "true baseball fans"???? While those who think steroids is a serious issue have some sort of character flaw?????
Sorry, but I am not buying it!!!!

As for your theory that Hernandez would "get hammered" today.......
Didn't Josh Hamilton get very favorable coverage last year???
Was Tony LaRussa or Joba Chamberlain unfairly attacked for their DUIs????
Has Brian Giles been ripped apart for his domestic assault charge????
Did Santonio Holmes of the Steelers receive unfair treatment during the playoffs and Super Bowl for his drug charge????

Your accusation that the press is unfair towards professional atheletes is ludicrous.
You seem to think that unless a reporter conspires to keep the steroid issue secret, then they are a "rat" or a "maggot".
Save your mafia wannabe routine for someone else!!!!

[Paulypal]

I think all true baseball fans would like the issue to go away because its a distraction to people that like to watch it. There is a certain portion of the population that just thinks they are a bunch of ego maniac over-paid blah blah blah. They actually like when someone gets knocked down a wrung or two. I guess this makes them feel better about themselves..I dont know.
So people who agree with you are "true baseball fans"???? While those who think steroids is a serious issue have some sort of character flaw?????
Sorry, but I am not buying it!!!!


As for your theory that Hernandez would "get hammered" today.......
Didn't Josh Hamilton get very favorable coverage last year???
Was Tony LaRussa or Joba Chamberlain unfairly attacked for their DUIs????
Has Brian Giles been ripped apart for his domestic assault charge????
Did Santonio Holmes of the Steelers receive unfair treatment during the playoffs and Super Bowl for his drug charge????

Your accusation that the press is unfair towards professional atheletes is ludicrous.
You seem to think that unless a reporter conspires to keep the steroid issue secret, then they are a "rat" or a "maggot".
Save your mafia wannabe routine for someone else!!!!

My you are just lost. First of all I dont know where the mafia comment comes from. Your comment proved my point. The media picks and chooses who the story is. Who cares about Santonio Holmes when HOF players are there to hammer. Nobody knew about or cared about Josh Hamilton when he started smoking crack . So he was already only a positive story when he broke on the spotlight. Lets see if the media is that forgivng with ARod.

All of your scenarios of other players above...........do me a favor...Put Arods name in that sentence or Bonds.......now ask yourself...would the media forgive them for the same transgressions.

Be right back I have Cosa Nostra meeting at 2:00.

[Buczilla]

Nobody knew about or cared about Josh Hamilton when he started smoking crack . So he was already only a positive story when he broke on the spotlight.

This is not true at all. Anybody who picked up a baseball magazine knew of his story and this is before he made it full circle. His story was featured in ESPN magazine a couple times, SI, TSN and there were countless newspaper articles on the subject. His downhill fall was pretty well documented. Again, this is before he turned his life around.

[spark240]

As a teacher, who works alongside a diligent staff, and has worked in multiple school settings, I feel that you are way off with your comments about school teachers often being mediocre. Most go above and beyond what they need to do, putting in countless extra hours with students uncompensated. They work hard, going to many professional developments to keep their lessons fresh. Maybe you had a poor school experience, but a majority of teachers are above mediocre and are rather inspired.

I probably had an average school experience. I was married to a teacher who often complained about the mediocrity of her colleagues and the system. I am a parent.

I think you reacted a little quickly, and perhaps with a misunderstanding of what I meant by "mediocre." I don't condemn people on the basis of being "mediocre," which doesn't really mean bad, just undistinguished. Most people in most professions are mediocre. If you really think that "a majority of teachers are above mediocre and are rather inspired," then I submit that it is you, not I, who have a limited view of what the best teachers can be and accomplish... or else you have worked only in the most blessed of public school systems.

But the real point is, my comments were actually a defense of journalists, by comparing them to teachers. Even mediocre journalists and teachers are often giving more value to society than they get credit for. Both professions, collectively, don't get the respect they deserve. I personally commend anyone who chooses either of these paths, and I urge you to embrace the responsibility and potential that the role has; be inspired.

Thank you for your time. Back to baseball...

[Captain Cold Nose]

I have yet to read a post here, or any editorial demanding "perfection" from Major League players. Nor have I seen anyone state that players "can never make a mistake". That is simply a straw man argument on your part.

Lots of players have made mistakes. Wade Boggs made mistakes, Keith Hernandez made mistakes. So did David Cone, Eckersley, Paul Molitor etc.
All in all, I find that the public and the press is very forgiving.

I suspect that you are a Yankee fan who just wants the issue to go away.
Rather than address the issue of steroids or HGH, you have chosen to blame the media, and even hurl insults at them.
It's a worn out routine!!!!


There are a few posts I could point out for you, the absolute vehemence some have for people they don't know from Adam due to the recent "scandals".

There is some truth in what Paulypal says, we are in an era yellow and sensationalist journalism that did not exist so much 20 years ago. That stuff was left for the supermarket checkout line then. Not as much anymore. But that does go well beyond baseball. Blame Pat O'Brien. Blame E Entertainment TV. Blame Mary Hart's voice. Blame Matt Lauer's hair. Blame Fox News. Blame Nancy "142 days on the same story" Grace. This is an area we've been moving toward the last several years. But the media that follows this trend only is following the general consensus, or the appearance of such.

This site is the minority. That can be bothersome if you let it be.

[Paulypal]

This is not true at all. Anybody who picked up a baseball magazine knew of his story and this is before he made it full circle. His story was featured in ESPN magazine a couple times, SI, TSN and there were countless newspaper articles on the subject. His downhill fall was pretty well documented. Again, this is before he turned his life around.

My point was he wasnt a star at the point he started smoking crack. Cmon do I have to explain that? He was another high level prospect that didnt make it. Thats all he was. Yes it was well documented but you cant kill a plyer with zero track record. So when he came back he was already a good story.

Do you think if ARod has a great year in 2009...that he will be considered a great story?

[parlo]

You want the steroid issue to go away because it involves your precious ARod.
Therefore you have resorted to blaming the media, and attacking the reporter who broke the story.
So far you have called her "scum of the earth", "parasite", "maggot", and "rat".
Then you go on to blame "Politically correct soccer moms...on zanix".
You then imply that anyone that agrees with you is a "real fan", and those that disagree must get a thrill out of tearing people down.
You are willing to blame anyone else, while giving precious ARod a free pass.

Then you claim that players wouldn't get away with what the 86 Mets did.
I provided you examples of players who had recent legal trouble that have been given the benefit of the doubt, and forgiven for the most part.
Now you have decided to change your position, and claim that ARod receives different treatment than the other players today.

You are going to have to make up your mind and stick with one position.

[parlo]

There are a few posts I could point out for you, the absolute vehemence some have for people they don't know from Adam due to the recent "scandals".

There is some truth in what Paulypal says, we are in an era yellow and sensationalist journalism that did not exist so much 20 years ago. That stuff was left for the supermarket checkout line then. Not as much anymore. But that does go well beyond baseball. Blame Pat O'Brien. Blame E Entertainment TV. Blame Mary Hart's voice. Blame Matt Lauer's hair. Blame Fox News. Blame Nancy "142 days on the same story" Grace. This is an area we've been moving toward the last several years. But the media that follows this trend only is following the general consensus, or the appearance of such.

This site is the minority. That can be bothersome if you let it be.I agree with your point. I even made a post earlier (post #24) that addresses the tabloid issue. There are a lot of cable shows, talk radio etc that take a page right out of the tabloid playbook.
But there are also a lot of good sources available. I find it comical for someone to complain about celebrity obsession etc, who then chooses to read tabloids, and watch cable TV, sensationalized shows posing as news shows.
There are many better alternatives available. If ARod, Paris Hilton, or the missing Aruba girl are the headline story, then perhaps you need to find a better news source.

I also don't buy into attacking the messenger.
Calling the reporter a maggot, parasite, scum of the earth, rat is a cheap cop-out.
Is the reporter supposed to help cover up the story?????

[Buczilla]

Do you think if ARod has a great year in 2009...that he will be considered a great story?

In all honesty, no... This isn't going away for awhile. You know he is gonna get crap thrown at him because he is a Yankee and because he is a Yankee the news will stick around. Not only that, but he is one of, if not the sports biggest stars and it's richest player. Many saw him as the light at the end of the steroid era tunnel.

There are other things, like character that plays into this. Alot of folks didn't buy what he was preaching during that interview. I personally can care less really. I think what he said was BS, just like anytime an entertainer or athlete publically comes out and apologizes(save face and marketability).

I do feel for the guy though. He said what he had to say, true or false. If I was him I wouldn't fuel the fire anymore. It's time to shut the trap and play ball. In due time this will all pass....Wish it was more sooner, rather than later.

[Paulypal]

You want the steroid issue to go away because it involves your precious ARod.
Therefore you have resorted to blaming the media, and attacking the reporter who broke the story.
So far you have called her "scum of the earth", "parasite", "maggot", and "rat".
Then you go on to blame "Politically correct soccer moms...on zanix".
You then imply that anyone that agrees with you is a "real fan", and those that disagree must get a thrill out of tearing people down.
You are willing to blame anyone else, while giving precious ARod a free pass.

Then you claim that players wouldn't get away with what the 86 Mets did.
I provided you examples of players who had recent legal trouble that have been given the benefit of the doubt, and forgiven for the most part.
Now you have decided to change your position, and claim that ARod receives different treatment than the other players today.

You are going to have to make up your mind and stick with one position.

You are showing just how clueless you you really are. If you read what I typed in full instead picking the three words out you want to dispute then maybe you will get a thought in your head. My soccer mom/zanix comment was bringing out the point is that we have become of drug ridden society. Everybody runs to something to fix it quick in a lot of homes, but yet we hold our athletes to a different standard. If you are too ignorant to pick up on that ...then maybe you need to log off your computer or have someone log off for you.

My position has not changed. You provided me names of players that have no star value or had no star value and say "see they got away without getting hammered". I say to you lets see if ARod is given the same courtesy. Josh Hamilton didnt have to give up publicly who his crack dealer was did he? No reporter asked Hamilton if it hurt. Did they? It was just a great comeback story with no reprecussions.

Get a clue. You want to compare the two? What a joke.

Hey Jessica Simpson is in the Enquirer this week are you tracking her weight loss?

[qbannik]

Somehow our athletes are held to a higher standard than any other profession in America...specifically baseball players. How the hell did that happen?

Because most other professions in America don't automatically come with millions of children who admire you and want to be like you. If you choose a career in which you know kids all over the country are going to look up to you, you have a greater responsibility to them. It doesn't matter if that's "wrong, and kids shouldn't look up to athletes as role models", the fact is, no matter how many times parents tell their kids NOT to look to these celebrities as role models, they WILL ANYWAY--that's just what kids do. Players who feel it's not their responsibility to be role models are wrong.

[Paulypal]

Because most other professions in America don't automatically come with millions of children who admire you and want to be like you. If you choose a career in which you know kids all over the country are going to look up to you, you have a greater responsibility to them. It doesn't matter if that's "wrong, and kids shouldn't look up to athletes as role models", the fact is, no matter how many times parents tell their kids NOT to look to these celebrities as role models, they WILL ANYWAY--that's just what kids do. Players who feel it's not their responsibility to be role models are wrong.

Please dont think I am making an excuse for todays players or saying taking steroids is the way to go........

Your probably right about everything you said. Again..because of todays media that puts todays player in a different area than players of other era's. Right?

For instance...if the cat was out of the bag in the mid 50's would Mickey Mantle have been a hero? He was a drunk ...and admitted drunk but because things were more covered up so to speak, not too many people really knew that he was a huge alcoholic that relied on amphets to keep him going. Now if you want a bigger icon or hero to kids of any era you will be hardpressed to find one bigger than Mickey Mantle.

My point is..I am not trying to give ARod or Bonds etc a pass, I am saying these guys are no better or worse than your neighbor or players of previous era's. There is just so much more "National Enquirer" media that so much more is known about everyone.

[west coast orange and black]

paulypal:
please continue to make your points but please refrain from harsh language directed at a fellow bb-fer ("If you are too ignorant...").

thanx for your cooperation.

[metrotheme]

I've worked in two of the largest and toughest school districts in the USA, Philadelphia and New York City. There are alot of good and inspired teachers out there. I'm not going to turn this into a teacher rant, you've heard too many of them over the course of your marriage. I do not feel my view is limited, I do believe that there are alot of teachers that are working above mediocrity level, and that school performance or lack thereof is due to factors outside the control of the classroom. Many teachers, especially in NYC and Philly persist in spite of these conditions.

I probably had an average school experience. I was married to a teacher who often complained about the mediocrity of her colleagues and the system. I am a parent.

I think you reacted a little quickly, and perhaps with a misunderstanding of what I meant by "mediocre." I don't condemn people on the basis of being "mediocre," which doesn't really mean bad, just undistinguished. Most people in most professions are mediocre. If you really think that "a majority of teachers are above mediocre and are rather inspired," then I submit that it is you, not I, who have a limited view of what the best teachers can be and accomplish... or else you have worked only in the most blessed of public school systems.

But the real point is, my comments were actually a defense of journalists, by comparing them to teachers. Even mediocre journalists and teachers are often giving more value to society than they get credit for. Both professions, collectively, don't get the respect they deserve. I personally commend anyone who chooses either of these paths, and I urge you to embrace the responsibility and potential that the role has; be inspired.

Thank you for your time. Back to baseball...