What would make steroids moot

[sturg1dj]

would steroids be as much of an issue if the league wasn't afraid of raising the mound again and moving the fences back closer to what they historically were?

this is kind of the hypocrisy of the baseball leaders. They desperately want big offense to attract the casual fan, but they also want a clean sport. Move the fences back and make the home run what it used to be, the result of perfect contact by a quality hitter...not a muscling over the fence by anyone.

[Imgran]

And.... this wouldn't make it easier to tempt players used to big HR numbers to take steroids?

[sturg1dj]

And.... this wouldn't make it easier to tempt players used to big HR numbers to take steroids?

tempt? I was pretty sure players are already tempted. I was pretty sure players already used.


anyways, moving the CF fence back to 460 and left and having the power alleys be old school would even make it difficult for some to hit HR's with steroids.

[west coast orange and black]

the number of baserunners would increase in parallel to the fences being moved back, resulting in even shorter starting pitcher stints and longer games and who knows what else.

what is critical is the change of our behavior with drugs.

[spark240]

Raising the mound is bad idea. Strikeouts are plenty high enough. I'm okay with seeing fences move back (though not uniformly by league decree).

[slaytanicsdmf]

Mandatory steroid injections?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

How about the easiest change to bring some balance back to the game.
Call the strike zone as it is written in the rule book.
In the early 1990s for what ever reason, there was no written change dealing with he upper half of the zone, the umps on their own decided to shave the top of the zone.

Don't recall the exact rule book wording but to this effect............upper half of the strike zone is a point midway between the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants.
So how is it balls a few inches above the belt are almost always called a ball. Add to that, in the 1990s balls only a couple of inches above the belt were called balls, it was even worse in the 1990s. The umps did bring it up a bit in 2001 after MLB sent out a directive to start calling the high strike, which by the way they still called below the rule book strike.
Gone is the high hard borderline pitch that used to tie up big strong hitters like Mantle and Killebrew. Today any pitch that high is always called a ball, hitters know that, they let it go by.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Raising the mound is bad idea. Strikeouts are plenty high enough. I'm okay with seeing fences move back (though not uniformly by league decree).

Lowering the mound was an even worse idea. MLB panics when the offense drops off, this is why they tampered with the mound that was at the same height for decades.

Offense puts fans in the seats. Lower mound, a joke of a strike zone, hitters advantage.

[Seattle1]

I would support raising the mound. Moving fences back, at least minimally, wherever possible, is ok with me too.

I would support these actions even in the absence of a steroids issue. It just seems like common sense.

[NYMets523]

the number of baserunners would increase in parallel to the fences being moved back, resulting in even shorter starting pitcher stints and longer games and who knows what else.

But there will be fewer runs.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

the number of baserunners would increase in parallel to the fences being moved back, resulting in even shorter starting pitcher stints and longer games and who knows what else.

what is critical is the change of our behavior with drugs.

That could be, we may even see as many or more runs scored even with home runs down.
Move back the fences and with todays ball, the corner outfielders most likely play back deeper allowing more base hits to drop in front of them.

[spark240]

Lowering the mound was an even worse idea. MLB panics when the offense drops off, this is why they tampered with the mound that was at the same height for decades.

Of course the offensive dropoff had a lot to do with the preceding tampering, with the strike zone.

Offense puts fans in the seats. Lower mound, a joke of a strike zone, hitters advantage.

So let's direct the umpires to call the rulebook strike zone (I see you mentioned that already). And, direct the umpires to not routinely grant time to batters whenever they want to step out of the box. The batters can be reined in without any actual new rules.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Of course the offensive dropoff had a lot to do with the preceding tampering, with the strike zone.


So let's direct the umpires to call the rulebook strike zone (I see you mentioned that already). And, direct the umpires to not routinely grant time to batters whenever they want to step out of the box. The batters can be reined in without any actual new rules.

Your correct Sparks, tamper with the zone after expansion in baseball and after Maris hit 61 homers. That was one of the few times that baseball made a change not in favor of offense. That was because we had an old school guy as commissioner, Ford Frick, who also said Maris should have an asterisk next to his name because he broke the record in the 162 game season.

Getting back to the strike zone, this was a big story for some years in the 1990s, steroids pushed it out of the picture.
Has lots to do with the 1990s explosion, smaller zone for hitters to be concerned with, also puts the hitter in "hitters count" more often. What was a strike for almost 100 years, the high one was no more in the 1990s and even today is called a ball.
I see the words players and managers don't care what the strike zone is.........ask the pitchers what they think.

[Paulypal]

How about letting pro athletes do what they feel is necessary to keep their jobs and keep a high level of play. We have been watching steroided to the max football players for 30 years and nobody says a word.

Nobody says a word because the NFL has a well written policy. Excellent. Humans 6'5 300 pounds 8% body fat running 4.5 40's. Yep natural to me.

IF you think its ever going to stop.....then you should take drugs for your hallucinations. Cheating like it or not will not go away.

[Tenorman]

How about letting pro athletes do what they feel is necessary to keep their jobs and keep a high level of play. We have been watching steroided to the max football players for 30 years and nobody says a word.

Nobody says a word because the NFL has a well written policy. Excellent. Humans 6'5 300 pounds 8% body fat running 4.5 40's. Yep natural to me.

IF you think its ever going to stop.....then you should take drugs for your hallucinations. Cheating like it or not will not go away.

Then bring back the spitball, and at least give the pitchers a chance against the 'roided up gorillas.

[plask_stirlac]

Make an unmarked heavier ball. Much more cost effective. Everyone was gaining from the little black logo showing spin and I'm guessing Schmidt wishes he had been able to make contact with some of these.

I wouldn't want to spring new fence lengths on teams. Well, maybe Houston.

[NYMets523]

How about letting pro athletes do what they feel is necessary to keep their jobs and keep a high level of play. We have been watching steroided to the max football players for 30 years and nobody says a word.

Nobody says a word because the NFL has a well written policy. Excellent. Humans 6'5 300 pounds 8% body fat running 4.5 40's. Yep natural to me.

IF you think its ever going to stop.....then you should take drugs for your hallucinations. Cheating like it or not will not go away.

The NFL's punishment is a slap on the wrist. Not to mention all the off-field problems players have and how they all get 100 chances. If Michael Vick were involved with cock fighting as opposed to dog fighting, he'd still be playing.

[plask_stirlac]

The NFL's punishment is a slap on the wrist. Not to mention all the off-field problems players have and how they all get 100 chances. If Michael Vick were involved with cock fighting as opposed to dog fighting, he'd still be playing.

The NFL has the strongest policy of suspending for games based on off-the-field incidents, let's be honest.

Kenny Rogers would have missed a season instead of 20 games. Offseason arrests would get 40 games.

[NYMets523]

The NFL has the strongest policy of suspending for games based on off-the-field incidents, let's be honest.
And yet Pac Man Jones is still in the league and you can bet Plaxico Burress will be back on the field next season.

[abolishthedh]

[QUOTE=SHOELESSJOE3;1428050]Getting back to the strike zone, this was a big story for some years in the 1990s, steroids pushed it out of the picture.
Has lots to do with the 1990s explosion, smaller zone for hitters to be concerned with, also puts the hitter in "hitters count" more often. What was a strike for almost 100 years, the high one was no more in the 1990s and even today is called a ball.QUOTE]

Thank you Shoeless, for the picture from USA Today. Homeruns are a combined result of two forces, 50/50 split; 50 % due to steroid use and 50% to the smaller strike zone. Smaller parks and a far more diverse array of sources for pitching talent balance each other out. Its good to see the smaller zone is still on someone's mind. We won't see a reasonable strike zone, though. That has gone the way of landline phones.

[Mike D.]

What about the 50+ percent of steroid users that are pitchers? Should we move the fences IN when they're pitching?

[plask_stirlac]

And yet Pac Man Jones is still in the league and you can bet Plaxico Burress will be back on the field next season.

And so are Juan Rincon, Ryan Franklin, Jason Giambi.

I'm not sure on Jones, whether he'll make a team. Burress faces criminal charges and Goodell hasn't really entered into it. If you want a gentleman's bet, we can. He shouldn't have a lifetime ban for just carrying a weapon, anyway.

I agree that athletes should be held to a higher standard, but not perfection. Otherwise we can fire all smokers, cheaters, those with back taxes or child support, anyone who jaywalks, etc. We do trust them with some decorum when the camera's on but not much else besides hurling some sort of ball or moving themselves or someone else.

The Codes of Conduct are both surprising and not. Why wouldn't a large population of adult men have some DUI's and assaults? It's like having people born in August. But there's image and media. Do you know if your plumber or barber has some misdemeanors? But pro athletes, probably.

[SilentKiller]

And so are Juan Rincon, Ryan Franklin, Jason Giambi.

I'm not sure on Jones, whether he'll make a team. Burress faces criminal charges and Goodell hasn't really entered into it. If you want a gentleman's bet, we can. He shouldn't have a lifetime ban for just carrying a weapon, anyway.

I agree that athletes should be held to a higher standard, but not perfection. Otherwise we can fire all smokers, cheaters, those with back taxes or child support, anyone who jaywalks, etc. We do trust them with some decorum when the camera's on but not much else besides hurling some sort of ball or moving themselves or someone else.

The Codes of Conduct are both surprising and not. Why wouldn't a large population of adult men have some DUI's and assaults? It's like having people born in August. But there's image and media. Do you know if your plumber or barber has some misdemeanors? But pro athletes, probably.

I agree and Plax shouldn't have been suspended in the 1st place.

[rsuriyop]

would steroids be as much of an issue if the league wasn't afraid of raising the mound again and moving the fences back closer to what they historically were?

this is kind of the hypocrisy of the baseball leaders. They desperately want big offense to attract the casual fan, but they also want a clean sport. Move the fences back and make the home run what it used to be, the result of perfect contact by a quality hitter...not a muscling over the fence by anyone.

How about just revert back to the way of the Deadball Era? Move the fences back like you said, give them a mushy ball to play with, and re-legalize the spitball? At least I'm sure Bill would like that...

[sturg1dj]

What about the 50+ percent of steroid users that are pitchers? Should we move the fences IN when they're pitching?

shh...nobody knows this. and when you tell them they don't care.

you can also point out all of the slap hitter who used and they don't care. In the end steroids are used by big strong HR hitters and thats all....I guess thats what happens when the media controls the discourse like they have.