Should Bud Selig be the subject of an independent investigation?

[abolishthedh]

Vote as you wish, concerning your longterm bias for or against Bud Selig and concerning recent news on his $18 M income from MLB and from A-Rod developments. Take note that there is only one choice possible, and that this vote will continue for a couple of months.

[Brian McKenna]

.....For what?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Is this another "I hate Bud Selig" thread when a bunch of folks blame Selig for the tie all-Star Game in 2002?

[abolishthedh]

As stated in another thread, his $18 Million income has been in the news. Since I agree with the idea that money is the root of all evil, this amount of salary would explain how he might have known for some time about steroids in baseball. He might have known well before 2003, for all we know.

If he thought the idea of steroid use was good for baseball, he could have at least shared this view with the public. More likely, he and the owners knew that steroid use would be a shortsighted pursuit of higher attendance and fan interest.

The subject of the investigation would be what he knew about steroid use and when he knew it, I suppose.

(In answer to Honus' question, uhh, no. I just hate Bud Selig because he represents the duplicity of Corporate America today and that he has ruined the affordability of baseball for middle class America. This, IMHO, will be the longterm demise of the game, with or without a recession.)

[Honus Wagner Rules]

As stated in another thread, his $18 Million income has been in the news. Since I agree with the idea that money is the root of all evil, this amount of salary would explain how he might have known for some time about steroids in baseball. He might have known well before 2003, for all we know.
I've never heard that. I've read somewhere the love of money is the root of all evil. Money itself cannot be evil. It's simply a medium of exchange for goods and services.


(In answer to Honus' question, uhh, no. I just hate Bud Selig because he represents the duplicity of Corporate America today and that he has ruined the affordability of baseball for middle class America. This, IMHO, will be the longterm demise of the game, with or without a recession.)

Sure but that started long before Selig was the commish and will continue long after he is gone. As long as people are willing to pay for ever increasing titcket prices there is nothing anyone can do about it.

[KCGHOST]

Another "Let's Bash Bud" thread. His salary isn't remotely out of line for this size of business. Under his tenure baseball has become filthy rich and players salaries have soared. Believe me neither the owners nor players are interested in you carping about the price of a game ticket.

Don't like Bud yammering for the public to build stadiums?? Get over it. That's what the owners and players want. Don't like the "This Time It Counts" goofiness assciated with the ASG?? Call up Torre and Brenley and ask them why they bungled the pitching in that particular ASG. Don't like the fact we didn't have a WS in 1994?? Call up the Players Union which was on strike at the time. You don't like Bud allowing all the PED's use in the 1990's and early 2000's?? Call up Fehr and Orza and ask them why they fought drug testing every step of the way. Don't like the fact that we haven't had a labor stoppage in 15 years?? Well, I guess you can partially blame Bud. Don't like the whole Expos to D.C fiasco?? Hmmm, again, no complaints from the players. And on it goes.

Sure Bud is a ***** (pick the expletive of your own choice) but when the fans sold out to the Union we should not be surprised that we ended up with a commissioner who only worries about pleasing his employers.

[abolishthedh]

Well, KC, I guess I'll be in the minority on the matter. Baseball hasn't had a commissioner with backbone after Fay Vincent was skewered for showing his backbone.

Baseball will end up in decline when middle class America realizes they can't afford to be fans of the game. Whether that decline begins during his tenure or after it is the main question.

[sturg1dj]

he is the man who saw one of the largest growths in the sport, but at the same time it occurred because of an increased emphasis on offense and bigger stronger players who hit more home runs. So at what point do we start asking if the commissioner and the owners knew about it? We are blaming the players and blaming the union...when the owners and administrators?


if steroids are as damning as some people believe then not only has Selig seen some growth, but he has also hurt the league in other ways.

[rockin500]

Well, KC, I guess I'll be in the minority on the matter. Baseball hasn't had a commissioner with backbone after Fay Vincent was skewered for showing his backbone.

Baseball will end up in decline when middle class America realizes they can't afford to be fans of the game. Whether that decline begins during his tenure or after it is the main question.
bud works for the owners. His job is to make them money. Under his watch, you can say he has achieved his objective in spade, can you not?

[Pete Rose Rounding Third]

If an investigation is warranted for Selig, there must be similar investigations into the commissioner's office of the NBA and MLB as well. LeBron James is a 6'8" 270-lb small forward.

[SamtheBravesFan]

If an investigation is warranted for Selig, there must be similar investigations into the commissioner's office of the NBA and MLB as well. LeBron James is a 6'8" 270-lb small forward.

... you're joking, right? That's only a designation necessary for positions. They can utilize him at power forward if they want to.

The Cavaliers' forwards are all pretty big:

21 J.J. Hickson F 6-9 242
00 Darnell Jackson F 6-9 253
23 LeBron James F 6-8 240
3 Sasha Pavlovic G-F 6-8 220
10 Wally Szczerbiak F 6-7 244
17 Anderson Varejao F 6-10 230
4 Ben Wallace F-C 6-9 240
31 Jawad Williams F 6-9 218
55 Lorenzen Wright F-C 6-11 225

[sturg1dj]

bud works for the owners. His job is to make them money. Under his watch, you can say he has achieved his objective in spade, can you not?

if the government was concerned with that objective then I would say there would be no investigation. However, I doubt very much the government cares about how well someone is doing their job, they care about other things. I mean A-Rod and Bonds were doing their jobs quite well, wouldn't you agree?

[Captain Cold Nose]

if the government was concerned with that objective then I would say there would be no investigation. However, I doubt very much the government cares about how well someone is doing their job, they care about other things. I mean A-Rod and Bonds were doing their jobs quite well, wouldn't you agree?

Government interest in Bonds, A-Rod and so many others is not due to how they were doing their jobs. Precisely what is Selig doing that would even warrant a congressional investigation?

If anyone honestly believes steroid issues began with Selig's tenure, then I could see this. But you're absolving an awful lot of people in the process if you're just going to finger the current powers that be. It's like playing darts and only throwing at the triple 20.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Well, KC, I guess I'll be in the minority on the matter. Baseball hasn't had a commissioner with backbone after Fay Vincent was skewered for showing his backbone.
So it's better to disregard's an employer's wishes? That's having backbone? Fay got fired for insubordination, just like any employee would have gotten fired.


Baseball will end up in decline when middle class America realizes they can't afford to be fans of the game. Whether that decline begins during his tenure or after it is the main question.
Hmmm...baseball attendance over the past 10 years has been quite strong. Don't forget that "middle America's" disposable income increases as well.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

If an investigation is warranted for Selig, there must be similar investigations into the commissioner's office of the NBA and MLB as well. LeBron James is a 6'8" 270-lb small forward.

Wasn't Charles Barkeley, 6'4", about 290 a "small" forward", too? How about Majic Johnson, a 6'9" point guard? James plays the small forward position because he;s a great passer and can run the offense quite well from the small forward position.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Wasn't Charles Barkeley, 6'4", about 290 a "small" forward", too? How about Majic Johnson, a 6'9" point guard? James plays the small forward position because he;s a great passer and can run the offense quite well from the small forward position.

Thanks, HWR. You explained it much better than I ever could. :)

[sturg1dj]

Government interest in Bonds, A-Rod and so many others is not due to how they were doing their jobs. Precisely what is Selig doing that would even warrant a congressional investigation?

If anyone honestly believes steroid issues began with Selig's tenure, then I could see this. But you're absolving an awful lot of people in the process if you're just going to finger the current powers that be. It's like playing darts and only throwing at the triple 20.

so far the government investigations have only involved the players, with a little input from Selig and Fehr. If the government truly believes steroids are some kind of national health problem and if they truly believe that MLB steroid use was so rampant and such an ill on society wouldn't you think they would have some interest in the people who were in charge?

This would include both the owners (with their leader Selig) as well as the union.

[Captain Cold Nose]

so far the government investigations have only involved the players, with a little input from Selig and Fehr. If the government truly believes steroids are some kind of national health problem and if they truly believe that MLB steroid use was so rampant and such an ill on society wouldn't you think they would have some interest in the people who were in charge?

This would include both the owners (with their leader Selig) as well as the union.

That's part of the ongoing investigation, though. The TS is asking about a separate, independent investigation. If congress were going to investigate steroids at that level, they have a lot further work to do than just focusing on baseball.

[abolishthedh]

With all due respect to those who disagree with my premise, I am saying that Selig should stand up to whoever might sign his check. He is not CEO of baseball, even though the owners and some fans might see him in that role. His primary role is to represent baseball's best interests, and that best interest is the longterm growth of the game, not the almighty dollar in the shortrun. I say this with full awareness that his 'shortrun' has become nearly 20 years, because middle class baseball fans can't afford to take their families to the game as often as was the case 20 to 30 years ago. Should this trend of declining affordability continue, then the longterm may require a while to recognize as such.

Meanwhile, when I see an $18 million paycheck for him, then it becomes quite clear how he could turn a blind eye towards this cancer of steroid use. The two topics are worth a connection, IMHO.

[sturg1dj]

when you say a middle class person cannot pay for their family to go to a game what do you mean exactly. I know this may be the case for football where is some stadiums even the cheap seats are expensive. In baseball there are still $15 in most (if not all stadiums). Even with the expensive prices of foot it is still affordable.

taking your family to many games over a summer would probably be tough to do but that should not really be an issue since most people in the middle class would not have the time off during the summer to take their family to a ton of games.

Even at the new Yankee stadium there are affordable seat, sure they are in the nosebleeds, but that is what you need to do when you are on a budget.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

With all due respect to those who disagree with my premise, I am saying that Selig should stand up to whoever might sign his check. He is not CEO of baseball, even though the owners and some fans might see him in that role.
Umm..yes he is. His official title may not be "CEO" but his responsibilities is esentially that of a CEO. From MLB.com website.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/about_mlb/executives.jsp

Who is that listed at the top of the executives list?


His primary role is to represent baseball's best interests, and that best interest is the longterm growth of the game, not the almighty dollar in the shortrun. I say this with full awareness that his 'shortrun' has become nearly 20 years, because middle class baseball fans can't afford to take their families to the game as often as was the case 20 to 30 years ago. Should this trend of declining affordability continue, then the longterm may require a while to recognize as such.
Long term growth is linked to continuing and increased revenue. The game cannot grow without revenue, right? Since when is the search for the all-mighty dollar a "short term" goal? It's the only goal that matters and is the one true long term goal. Without the "almighty dollar" professional baseball would have ceased to exit ecades ago.


Meanwhile, when I see an $18 million paycheck for him, then it becomes quite clear how he could turn a blind eye towards this cancer of steroid use. The two topics are worth a connection, IMHO.
Why does it bother you that Selig makes $18 million? He's paid by the owners.

[sturg1dj]

not to do a 180 or anything...but I would have no problem is Selig stayed for 50 more years as long as George W. Bush didn't get the job (remember the rumors and remember how he said he would like to.) I don't care if the next one is a Democrat or a Republican...as long as its not Bush.


I was thinking...what about Jim Bunning. Sure he is a little nuts, but I wonder what he would do. He was very involved with the union when he played but now he is a Republican senator who has spoken out against unions. Would be a strange dynamic.

[Pete Rose Rounding Third]

Barkley wasn't routinely 290 - he played around 255-260 most of the time. And Magic was 6'9", but only 235.

As far as the rest of the Cavs roster goes, that's my point precisely - NBA players have more muscle mass than they used to. A power forward in the 70's and 80's usually didn't exceed 235. Shaq is to his era what Chamberlain was to the his - Chamberlain was about 280-290, Shaq has spent the majority of his career over 350.

And I'm not trying to accuse anyone. I just wonder why baseball gets so much scrutiny and the NBA or the NFL do not.

[abolishthedh]

Maybe times have changed more than I realized, but not for the better. I remember a time when Bowie Kuhn voided the sale of ballplayers from the A's, despite what the A's owner believed was best for his team and for the other team. He was called 'the village idiot', and he stood his ground.

Kuhn voided the sale of A's players in the best interests of baseball, recognizing that Joe the Plumber wouldn't be able to afford season tickets with escalating salaries at that point in time. It turned out he must have been right, because you're suggesting that the middle class would have to be on a budget to see multiple ballgames each season. I remember when that wasn't the case, and noone thought it would become the case.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Maybe times have changed more than I realized, but not for the better. I remember a time when Bowie Kuhn voided the sale of ballplayers from the A's, despite what the A's owner believed was best for his team and for the other team. He was called 'the village idiot', and he stood his ground.

Kuhn voided the sale of A's players in the best interests of baseball, recognizing that Joe the Plumber wouldn't be able to afford season tickets with escalating salaries at that point in time. It turned out he must have been right, because you're suggesting that the middle class would have to be on a budget to see multiple ballgames each season. I remember when that wasn't the case, and noone thought it would become the case.

Inflation has affected all walks of life. That certainly cannot be pinned on Selig. Nor does it merit a singular independent investigation of baseball when prices have skyrocketed everywhere since the 70's, when Charlie Finley was giving away all-stars for next to nothing in return.

Candy bars used to cost a nickel. Should the presidents of MM/Mars and Hersheys be dragged in front of congress?

[abolishthedh]

The investigation I have asked about, BTW, does not have to be done by Congress. It could be done by any large newspaper, SI, ESPN, or some other body outside of Congress. We should remember that it was the Washington Post which broke the story about Watergate and how Nixon was obsessed over Democrat campaign secrets.

Old school journalism works. We shouldn't shoot the messenger. As a side point, it seems that at least one poster on the ARod matters of recent has been all too willing to shoot the author of the story, Tom Verducci.

[Captain Cold Nose]

The investigation I have asked about, BTW, does not have to be done by Congress. It could be done by any large newspaper, SI, ESPN, or some other body outside of Congress. We should remember that it was the Washington Post which broke the story about Watergate and how Nixon was obsessed over Democrat campaign secrets.

Old school journalism works. We shouldn't shoot the messenger. As a side point, it seems that at least one poster on the ARod matters of recent has been all too willing to shoot the author of the story, Tom Verducci.

Ok, old school journalism works. I still don't see why somebody has to take the time and effort (and cost) to put together an investigation of a man who has done the job he has been appointed to do within the reigns he has been given to do it.

If Selig needs to stand up to the owners and the Union, and they are the ones who are the reasons for two and twenty troubles, why not investigate them? And I mean beyond this self-serving steroids McCarthy homage going on.

[Brian McKenna]

It makes me glad to see so many posts here by intelligent BBF memebers. This Bud Selig bashing is baseless and getting old. Some just don't get it - they are blinded by the trees and have lost sight of the forest.

The head of the national office of a franchising corporation is charged with driving the business and assisting the individual franchises to maximize profits which in turn breed benefits for the whole. No commissioner prior to Selig was able to get out of their own way to achieve these goals. While some or perhaps much of it has to do with the emergence of the internet and Pay TV, etc., Selig it the man at the head of the system. He assisted in implementing practices which would capitalize on these opportunities and he didn't get in the way of progress - like every other commissioner, especially Landis who didn't even know what a balance sheet was.

As far as Selig's salary is concerned, that is between him and his employers. I am pretty sure both groups are happy. In fact, I know so. The owners are tickled to death to have had him running the show. They do not want him to retire. Whatever his salary is - $18 million or $180 million - his employers are happy to pay it.

As far as the ASG and other minor stuff goes - that doesn't even rate as branches on the trees of the forest.

Was he slow in responding to the whole steroid stuff? Probably. Were we? Probably. But hey, he is the employer. The fraud emanated from the employees. If business is booming, how often do executives like to throw a monkey wrench into the works - even if they knew what was going on?

The most ridiculous issue people are bringing up today is that hey Arod or whomever was nailed in 2003. So hey let's bash Selig. Isn't Arod getting nailed six years ago the result of Selig doing his job.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Maybe times have changed more than I realized, but not for the better. I remember a time when Bowie Kuhn voided the sale of ballplayers from the A's, despite what the A's owner believed was best for his team and for the other team. He was called 'the village idiot', and he stood his ground.

Kuhn voided the sale of A's players in the best interests of baseball, recognizing that Joe the Plumber wouldn't be able to afford season tickets with escalating salaries at that point in time. It turned out he must have been right, because you're suggesting that the middle class would have to be on a budget to see multiple ballgames each season. I remember when that wasn't the case, and noone thought it would become the case.

Why do you think Kuhn had the authority and power to void the sale in the first place? He had the authority and power from the other major league owners. It is precisely because the other owners didn't want this same to happen that Kuhn had the necessary power and authority. If the other owners had wanted to sale to go through it would have happened and Kuhn would have powerless to stop it. Charlie Finley was hated by most of he other owners so they got to stick it to him by blocked the sale of his A's players.

[abolishthedh]

Honus, your view over the Finley-Kuhn matter may be accurate, but IMHO I have always believed that Kuhn operated first and foremost under the premise of benefitting MLB. All else was secondary, including the profit motive. Meanwhile, Selig may have made truckloads of money for the owners but that has not benefitted baseball if 1) he turned a blind eye towards ballplayers and their potential steroid use. He would have had to act proactively to counteract that by talking openly about the possibility of such all along (even if all he had to say was talk and hot air). This would have cleared him of the perception of wrongdoing. 2) He could have included in his interviews and speeches the possibility that steroid use was inflating the accomplishments on the field, thereby inflating ballplayer salaries, and thereby leading to increased ticket prices for field-level seating. This combination of events has separated the middle class from baseball and continues to make baseball a rich man's game.

Back in Kuhn's day, Joe the plumber didn't have to sit in the nosebleed seats. He could be found at field level, and I remember having numerous conversations with blue collar types, with college students, and with fathers who brought large families along with them. This could be seen at every game, and this trend lays at Selig's doorstep.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Honus, your view over the Finley-Kuhn matter may be accurate, but IMHO I have always believed that Kuhn operated first and foremost under the premise of benefitting MLB. All else was secondary, including the profit motive. Meanwhile, Selig may have made truckloads of money for the owners but that has not benefitted baseball if 1) he turned a blind eye towards ballplayers and their potential steroid use. He would have had to act proactively to counteract that by talking openly about the possibility of such all along (even if all he had to say was talk and hot air). This would have cleared him of the perception of wrongdoing. 2) He could have included in his interviews and speeches the possibility that steroid use was inflating the accomplishments on the field, thereby inflating ballplayer salaries, and thereby leading to increased ticket prices for field-level seating. This combination of events has separated the middle class from baseball and continues to make baseball a rich man's game.

Back in Kuhn's day, Joe the plumber didn't have to sit in the nosebleed seats. He could be found at field level, and I remember having numerous conversations with blue collar types, with college students, and with fathers who brought large families along with them. This could be seen at every game, and this trend lays at Selig's doorstep.

A family of four used to be able to go to a nice restaurant during Kuhn's tenure and eat for $20. Not anymore. That has to be Selig's fault, as well, since you seem to be blaming him for inflation.

Salaries skyrocketed because the means to gain them increased. Cable TV has thrown billions at MLB over the years, since before Selig's tenure. You can attribute that to steroids if you'd like, but that's hardly accurate. And there was talk about steroid usage well before Selig's tenure. For all the posturing, pontificating, blaming others, deifying his predecessor and patting himself on the back that Fay Vincent has done, the ball was really rolling when he was in charge and all he did was talk about how great he was doing.

It's his fault for not saying what you yourself are thinking in interviews? I'd like to see baseball played on the moon someday. Now do I blame everything on Selig because he hasn't addressed my own personal feelings?

[abolishthedh]

CCN, is it not possible that MLB pursued those contracts because they knew that MLB would need the money for salaries after the Messersmith decision? Its a shame that the networks bought into MLB's sales pitch, because for most of the past 20 years ratings have been in decline. Eventually, the networks will see the light and not offer such contracts, thereby diminishing the revenue stream.

So, Selig is held in high esteem because he has 'played the role of CEO' and made progress with the Baseball Channel (or whatever name it has)?

Selig has made baseball dependent upon yesterday's logic, that the interest in baseball that the Baby Boom generation had for baseball will be continued by succeeding generations. Well, as a teacher, I sense today's kids barely care as much about football, baseball, hockey, the Kentucky Derby, Indianapolis 500 or much of anything. Instead, the younger generation is interested in text messaging their friends, Myspace, Facebook, Ipods, Youtube, and whatever game gadget or communications gadget they can afford. These facts don't leave much room for the growth in baseball under Selig's paradigm. MLB has been backed into a corner when it is dependent upon franchising revenue, network revenue, overseas revenue or any 'new' income stream.

[Captain Cold Nose]

CCN, is it not possible that MLB pursued those contracts because they knew that MLB would need the money for salaries after the Messersmith decision? Its a shame that the networks bought into MLB's sales pitch, because for most of the past 20 years ratings have been in decline. Eventually, the networks will see the light and not offer such contracts, thereby diminishing the revenue stream.

So, Selig is held in high esteem because he has 'played the role of CEO' and made progress with the Baseball Channel (or whatever name it has)?

Selig has made baseball dependent upon yesterday's logic, that the interest in baseball that the Baby Boom generation had for baseball will be continued by succeeding generations. Well, as a teacher, I sense today's kids barely care as much about football, baseball, hockey, the Kentucky Derby, Indianapolis 500 or much of anything. Instead, the younger generation is interested in text messaging their friends, Myspace, Facebook, Ipods, Youtube, and whatever game gadget or communications gadget they can afford. These facts don't leave much room for the growth in baseball under Selig's paradigm. MLB has been backed into a corner when it is dependent upon franchising revenue, network revenue, overseas revenue or any 'new' income stream.


Is it not possible MLB pursued those contracts because they were out there to pursue and simply that? Only a fool wouldn't search out the best possible revenue options in a market economy. If you want to credit (or blame) impending free agency (and it's not like discussion started with the Messersmith decision) go ahead. There was a boon to be pursued and baseball did, free agency or not.

I understand where you are coming from in general, but I don't see any of this as really Selig's fault. Certainly not worthy of an investigation of some sort. There are so many different factors contributing to the decline of baseball's popularity overall, not the least being the increased leisure options one has, that to hold Selig responsible is not fair. How is all of this his wrong-doing? You can dislike him all you want, that's fine. But let's not make him more than he is or try to blame him for not doing things he really wasn't in position to do.

[timmyj51]

"bud works for the owners."



That's how its turned out but that's not how it was supposed to be. Never
forget how the office of Commish came into existence: out of the 1919 Blacksox scandal. The office was created for one purpose: keep baseball clean. In theory, this is the postion's overriding responsibility. Its NOT to make
owners money (they can do that on their own), NOT to protect players
(like protecting delinquent children). It's to protect the game's good
name, and there's gonna be a lot of times when you CAN'T do that without
taking a hit financially. Problem with Buddy Boy is that he's totally abondoned
the positions founding mission. The
Commish has become thoroughly part of the make-as-much-as-you-can machinery of MLB, and now the game's paying the price bigtime. .

[Captain Cold Nose]

"bud works for the owners."



That's how its turned out but that's not how it was supposed to be. Never
forget how the office of Commish came into existence: out of the 1919 Blacksox scandal. The office was created for one purpose: keep baseball clean. In theory, this is the postion's overriding responsibility. Its NOT to make
owners money (they can do that on their own), NOT to protect players
(like protecting delinquent children). It's to protect the game's good
name, and there's gonna be a lot of times when you CAN'T do that without
taking a hit financially. Problem with Buddy Boy is that he's totally abondoned
the positions founding mission. The
Commish has become thoroughly part of the make-as-much-as-you-can machinery of MLB, and now the game's paying the price bigtime. .


Results prove otherwise.

[BoweryBoys]

"bud works for the owners."



That's how its turned out but that's not how it was supposed to be. Never
forget how the office of Commish came into existence: out of the 1919 Blacksox scandal. The office was created for one purpose: keep baseball clean. In theory, this is the postion's overriding responsibility. Its NOT to make
owners money (they can do that on their own), NOT to protect players
(like protecting delinquent children). It's to protect the game's good
name, and there's gonna be a lot of times when you CAN'T do that without
taking a hit financially. Problem with Buddy Boy is that he's totally abondoned
the positions founding mission. The
Commish has become thoroughly part of the make-as-much-as-you-can machinery of MLB, and now the game's paying the price bigtime. .

Thank you for so clearly stating a simple fact that many fans have seemed to have forgotten or never understood in recent years. The commissioner of MLB was never intended to be, or set up to be, the chief salesman and PR person for the game but actually as chief justice and chief of police of the game. The office was never meant to serve the owners nor the players but to police and administer over the game and create a balance. Some how over recent years the office has become chief public relations officer, or at least Selig believed so. He seems to have made that his mandate and decided that is what the office was for but of course owners and MLBPA will go along with anything that makes more money. Of course MLBPA will scream bloody murder if he tries to do anything that the commish office was set up to be able to do, unless Congress steps in and forces the issue.

It is true that MLB makes a great deal of money today but that logic is flawed. Every business makes more money today then it did in years past, even those that have eventually gone under due to the recent economic downturn. There is simply more money around today and in circulation, higher GNP, then in past decades such as the 50s and 60s for example. There is a much higher population base, more people with more leisure time, and more leisure dollars to spend on sport then ever before. There is much more corporate involvement and dollars then ever before. Things today just cost more and a business such as MLB can charge more for everything from parking to TV rights simply because they know they can and there are more dollars out there to spend by the greatest number of people then ever before.

There are simply more people around today with more pocket money then in decades past. Casual fans, couples that go to a game on a date. There are a number of reasons why MLB would naturally make more money today then ever before, despite the growing popularity of the other sports as well. Part of it is just common inflation that has occurred over the years. To credit Selig has a great commish simply because the game makes a great deal of money is a flawed argument at best and a disingenuous one at worst. There is no proof whatsoever that Selig's changes such as Wild Card and Interleague, are the reasons for a great "boom" in recent years. The product on the field is what draws the customers in not Selig's tinkering with an already great game. I fully believe the game would still make the same record revenues if the game was still set up the way it was pre 1994 or even pre 1969. Fans love the game and with some it is even almost and addiction this time of year they can't live without and and are willing to pay the ever increasing price the best they can. I don't see how one can credit Selig for understanding this simple fact as if he "saved the game" or something. Selig has been more like a salesman then a commish.

[Cubano100%]

He needs to resign along side with Donal Ferh. The heads always pay the price.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Thank you for so clearly stating a simple fact that many fans have seemed to have forgotten or never understood in recent years. The commissioner of MLB was never intended to be, or set up to be, the chief salesman and PR person for the game but actually as chief justice and chief of police of the game. The office was never meant to serve the owners nor the players but to police and administer over the game and create a balance. Some how over recent years the office has become chief public relations officer, or at least Selig believed so. He seems to have made that his mandate and decided that is what the office was for but of course owners and MLBPA will go along with anything that makes more money. Of course MLBPA will scream bloody murder if he tries to do anything that the commish office was set up to be able to do, unless Congress steps in and forces the issue.

It is true that MLB makes a great deal of money today but that logic is flawed. Every business makes more money today then it did in years past, even those that have eventually gone under due to the recent economic downturn. There is simply more money around today and in circulation, higher GNP, then in past decades such as the 50s and 60s for example. There is a much higher population base, more people with more leisure time, and more leisure dollars to spend on sport then ever before. There is much more corporate involvement and dollars then ever before. Things today just cost more and a business such as MLB can charge more for everything from parking to TV rights simply because they know they can and there are more dollars out there to spend by the greatest number of people then ever before.

There are simply more people around today with more pocket money then in decades past. Casual fans, couples that go to a game on a date. There are a number of reasons why MLB would naturally make more money today then ever before, despite the growing popularity of the other sports as well. Part of it is just common inflation that has occurred over the years. To credit Selig has a great commish simply because the game makes a great deal of money is a flawed argument at best and a disingenuous one at worst. There is no proof whatsoever that Selig's changes such as Wild Card and Interleague, are the reasons for a great "boom" in recent years. The product on the field is what draws the customers in not Selig's tinkering with an already great game. I fully believe the game would still make the same record revenues if the game was still set up the way it was pre 1994 or even pre 1969. Fans love the game and with some it is even almost and addiction this time of year they can't live without and and are willing to pay the ever increasing price the best they can. I don't see how one can credit Selig for understanding this simple fact as if he "saved the game" or something. Selig has been more like a salesman then a commish.


So why exactly should Selig be investigated?

[Ubiquitous]

What Landis used the commissionership for and what the owners intended to be are two different things. Just because Landis did one thing doesn't mean that was what the position was meant to do. Considering that after Landis the owners made pretty darn sure they would never get another Landis I think it is pretty clear that a Landis style commissioner was not what they intended.

Furthermore Commissioner Landis Mr Power Incarnate is a greatly exaggerated myth. He was not emperor and could not move without the owners consent. He could not decree from up high without the backing of the owners and he did things throughout his reign that was meant to gain their support. For instance he actually kicked a player out of baseball because of a salary dispute with an owner. Was it the right thing to do? Was it in the best interest of baseball? No, he did it to gain the owners support.

The Commissioner was always meant to be the front man of baseball and of the owners. He was one voice that baseball would present to the world instead of the many voices emanating from the smoky backroom.

[Brad Harris]

Casual fans, couples that go to a game on a date.
Yeah, because that neer happened in decades past, just ask Katie Casey.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Thank you for so clearly stating a simple fact that many fans have seemed to have forgotten or never understood in recent years. The commissioner of MLB was never intended to be, or set up to be, the chief salesman and PR person for the game but actually as chief justice and chief of police of the game. The office was never meant to serve the owners nor the players but to police and administer over the game and create a balance. Some how over recent years the office has become chief public relations officer, or at least Selig believed so. He seems to have made that his mandate and decided that is what the office was for but of course owners and MLBPA will go along with anything that makes more money. Of course MLBPA will scream bloody murder if he tries to do anything that the commish office was set up to be able to do, unless Congress steps in and forces the issue.
Why does it matter what the commissioner's office was meant to be in 1920? It's not 1920 anymore. Are you saying that MLB cannot change the role or scope of the commissioner's office? When Landis became the first commissioner there was no radio or TV broadcast of games, not marketing of the game, no free agency, no west coast teams. The commissioner's role by necessity had to change over the decades. To try to hold it to a 1920s standard doesn't make sense. And Selig can still be the chief justice and chief of police of the game while at the same time also be a salesman for the game. These roles are not mutually exclusive.

[timmyj51]

Above all, the office of Comish is a position of stewardship. He's supposed
to make sure owners and ballplayers don't destroy the game as the two war it out over the
riches they've plundered from the fans. He's NOT the CEO of baseball. If
the owners want a CEO to find a way to squeeze every last penny out of the fans they can hire one, but its NOT what the Comish
does. No owner/ex-owner should have EVER been Comish, just as no ex-ballplayer should.

[tommybaseball]

Above all, the office of Comish is a position of stewardship. He's supposed
to make sure owners and ballplayers don't destroy the game as the two war it out over the
riches they've plundered from the fans. He's NOT the CEO of baseball. If
the owners want a CEO to find a way to squeeze every last penny out of the fans they can hire one, but its NOT what the Comish
does. No owner/ex-owner should have EVER been Comish, just as no ex-ballplayer should.

I agree 100%. Bumblin' Bud is the worst excuse for a Commissioner that Major League Baseball has ever had. This phony former used car salesman is responsible for the disingenuous state of the game today.
When attendance shrank after the 1994 strike, WHEN FANS STOPPED PUTTING MONEY IN THE COFFERS, the alarm rang. And what was it that brought the fans back in droves. Come on meatheads, this is a softball. Yeah, it was the HOMERUN. The Mark and Sammy Show! And back into the stands we flooded. Wow, he really hit the snot out of that one!
And suddenly, the 50 homer mark was a stroll through the park.

Selig turned a blind eye to cheating, plain and simple because it put asses in the seats and big dollars, our dollars in the pockets of players and owners. A gorging feast of dollars to the tune of 6 billion dollars a year.
Selig, the overseer of the integrity of the game, allowed cheating.

Here is how another commissioner felt about cheating:

Unlike acts of impulse or violence, intended at the moment to vent frustration or abuse another, acts of cheating are intended to alter the very conditions of play to favor one person. They are secretive, covert acts that strike at and seek to undermine the basic foundation of any contest declaring the winner-that all participants play under identical rules and conditions.
Acts of cheating destroy that necessary foundation and thus strike at the essence of a contest. They destroy faith in the games’ integrity and fairness;
if participants and spectators alike cannot assume integrity and fairness, and proceed from there, the contest cannot in its essence exist…Cheating is contrary to the whole purpose of playing to determine a winner fairly and cannot be simply contained; if the game is to flourish and engage public confidence, cheating must be clearly condemned with an eye to expunging it.

That would be A. Bartlett Giamatti. And it really wasn't that long ago.
But as long as meatheads are entertained by baseballs soaring into the stratosphere, blowhards like Selig will continue their song and dance routine. Who needs integrity and fair play when there is an audience for a freak show?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

There seems to be some misunderstanding of what the definition of major league baseball's commissioner. The commissioner is the chief executive of major league baseball. In essence he is the CEO. Remember, CEO stands for Chief Executive Officer. Just because his official title in "Commissioner" doesn't mean he not the chief executive.

Here is the list of the top officials in MLB.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/about_mlb/executives.jsp

Look at the executives under Selig. You have a COO, Chief Operating Officer, and several vice presidents.

Here is a definition of a CEO:


A chief executive officer (CEO) or chief executive is typically the highest-ranking corporate officer (executive) or administrator in charge of total management of a corporation, company, organization, or agency, reporting to the board of directors.


In essence the baseball commissioner is a CEO in duties and responsibilities which makes sense since baseball is a multi-billion dollar business.

[BoweryBoys]

I agree 100%. Bumblin' Bud is the worst excuse for a Commissioner that Major League Baseball has ever had. This phony former used car salesman is responsible for the disingenuous state of the game today.
When attendance shrank after the 1994 strike, WHEN FANS STOPPED PUTTING MONEY IN THE COFFERS, the alarm rang. And what was it that brought the fans back in droves. Come on meatheads, this is a softball. Yeah, it was the HOMERUN. The Mark and Sammy Show! And back into the stands we flooded. Wow, he really hit the snot out of that one!
And suddenly, the 50 homer mark was a stroll through the park.

Selig turned a blind eye to cheating, plain and simple because it put asses in the seats and big dollars, our dollars in the pockets of players and owners. A gorging feast of dollars to the tune of 6 billion dollars a year.
Selig, the overseer of the integrity of the game, allowed cheating.

Here is how another commissioner felt about cheating:

Unlike acts of impulse or violence, intended at the moment to vent frustration or abuse another, acts of cheating are intended to alter the very conditions of play to favor one person. They are secretive, covert acts that strike at and seek to undermine the basic foundation of any contest declaring the winner-that all participants play under identical rules and conditions.
Acts of cheating destroy that necessary foundation and thus strike at the essence of a contest. They destroy faith in the games’ integrity and fairness;
if participants and spectators alike cannot assume integrity and fairness, and proceed from there, the contest cannot in its essence exist…Cheating is contrary to the whole purpose of playing to determine a winner fairly and cannot be simply contained; if the game is to flourish and engage public confidence, cheating must be clearly condemned with an eye to expunging it.

That would be A. Bartlett Giamatti. And it really wasn't that long ago.
But as long as meatheads are entertained by baseballs soaring into the stratosphere, blowhards like Selig will continue their song and dance routine. Who needs integrity and fair play when there is an audience for a freak show?

Thank you for posting not only probably the most intelligent post this website has had on this issue but also maybe the most honest one. It is refreshing to see this kind of clear common sense in the face of all the nonsense and disingenuous arguments of the steroid apologists.

It is really a shame that some people deliberately cloud this issue with nonsense equating things like stealing signs and spitballs to the same as the steroid users turning modern MLB into a freak show circus. When did real fans stop caring about the game so much that they would actually prefer, or feel that it was good for baseball, what happened in 1998? Why?, because it put buts in the seats? Gave record levels of revenue into the pockets of owners, players and agents? Eventually resulted in Bud's 18 Million? These are good things? That benefit the fan and true lover of the game, how?

It's a shame some number of people who purport to love the greatest game ever are okay with the modern era of MLB and excuse the planned premeditated assualts on the game's integrity and record book. The steroid users turned the modern game into a joke but as time progresses I'm sure even more people will come to realize that fact.

[timmyj51]

"In essence the baseball commissioner is a CEO in duties and responsibilities which makes sense since baseball is a multi-billion dollar business."




Buddy Boy is not the CEO/COO of MLB, and he's not listed as such. The
Commish was supposed to be the trustee of the game. The fact that the position has morphed into a de facto CEO role is the reason why MLB's got the problems
it now has.

[SilentKiller]

Bud Selig knows and knew much more about steroids than he let on. He has been a 1st class hypocrite going in front of Congress and feigning ignorance about what he knew during the height of the steroid phase in baseball. I want to know what he knew, when he knew it, and why it took a long time to do anything about it.

[abolishthedh]

[QUOTE=Honus Wagner Rules;1428524]The commissioner is the chief executive of major league baseball. In essence he is the CEO. Remember, CEO stands for Chief Executive Officer. Just because his official title in "Commissioner" doesn't mean he not the chief executive.QUOTE]

The owners don't need any help making money for themselves or their franchises. As owners, they have the ability to hire such help for their payroll, and then place these employees on the field or in a management suite.

The game needs, and has always needed, a caretaker to prevent negative impulses from corrupting its image and integrity. This was evident after the Black Sox Scandal, and whether the owners liked it or not the Commissioner's office evolved from the Black Sox Scandal.

Today, the negative impulses which baseball needs to be protected from include two of the 7 deadly sins: greed and envy. We know they're greedy (duhhh!), but the owners also envy each other's stadiums, image and reputations, rosters, and minor league systems. And the owners probably envy more than that within their circle.

Someone needs to stand up to all of that. At $18 M per year, Bud has probably socked away enough to do so over the past two decades. He has no reason to need the money anymore. Selig should now ask what the game will look like in the year 2040, and establish administrative precedents to get there (even at the expense of his own neck).

If he chooses not to do such, then someone in journalism should investigate his motivations and connections. Follow the money trail, so to speak.

[highpockets]

So why exactly should Selig be investigated?
Well, I'd like to know what he's been smoking lately.

[Brownie31]

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/OswaldTheOsprey/AAPOLITRANT/AAPOLITRANT2/AP3/AP4/crjsh090213.gif
John Sherffius, The Boulder Camera

Brownie31

[Captain Cold Nose]

Well, I'd like to know what he's been smoking lately.

So call the cops on him.

[shake-n-bake]

I don't really have an opinion on whether or not he should be investigated, but I'm disappointed by his response today. He said, basically, not to blame him for the steroids problem.

I was the president of a corporation. My resume says that my responsibilities were "I was partly responsible for everything that happened and fully responsible for everything that failed to happen." Subordinates respect a boss that deflects blame by accepting blame. They endear themselves to someone who passes the credit to where the credit is due. He missed an opportunity to hit one out of the park as a leader today.

[sturg1dj]

what I do not like is it seems as though the Players' Union is going to lose some of its power because so many players are no longer united on this issue. Many of you guys will disagree with me on this issue, which is fine. What I do not like is that the power will shift back to the owners who basically knew as much as the Union did. If you look at the steps taken by the owners (or administration) against drugs of all kinds, they are not major steps, instead they are all PR moves. The drug memos came during the war on drugs, and the hard line on steroids was made only when the public outcry started.

My point is that the owners and administration have to look out for their bottom lines and the union has to look out for the players (and their bottom lines). The owners need to protect a product on the field, and the players are that product, and until the outcry came, the owners did not care about the health of the players or the integrity of the game. So even though both sides were together on this, only one side is going to fall. This is what bother me.


sorry for the rant.

[abolishthedh]

Sturg,

No apologies necessary. You've brought something up that I had not thought of, but I hope that fans, players, former players and the media will recognize that all of MLB shares blame on the matter of steroid use. At the top of that list is Bud. I particularly hope that corporate suits will see it that way, because they have helped make everyone look good when they sponsor stadiums, offer huge endorsements and support majority owners with their exploding payrolls.

Baseball is only one institution on a long list of institutions which will likely face a major come-uppance in the next few years for 'living large' philosophies at the expense of the fan/taxpayer.

[keystone]

For $18 million a year, I just wish Bud would get a decent haircut.

There is no point in wishing for anything else. Probably not even the haircut.

[Dirt Dog]

I don't really have an opinion on whether or not he should be investigated, but I'm disappointed by his response today. He said, basically, not to blame him for the steroids problem.
Agree. For Selig to get on his high horse and blame A-Rod and all is wrong...it's hypocrisy on his part.

A-Rod seems to be taking the hits for everyone that has used steroids, which is unfair, but Selig needs to look into the mirror on this whole steroid issue. Whether Selig is totally clueless or totally in denial or blind to it the ultimate responsibility falls on his shoulders.

[shake-n-bake]

Agree. For Selig to get on his high horse and blame A-Rod and all is wrong...it's hypocrisy on his part.

A-Rod seems to be taking the hits for everyone that has used steroids, which is unfair, but Selig needs to look into the mirror on this whole steroid issue. Whether Selig is totally clueless or totally in denial or blind to it the ultimate responsibility falls on his shoulders.

Taking ownership of the problem has the positive result of people looking to, anticipating, and listening to your plans to fix it. I think Selig blew an opportunity to throw a saddle on this thing.