A-Rod admits to using steroids in interview

[steve rogers]

A-Rod is doing an interview with Peter Gammons and apparently he has admitted to using steroids during his time with the Texas Ragers. The full interview will be shown tonight on ESPN.

Scott F

[banny]

in an interview today with peter gammons, a rod allegedly admitted to using ped's on one occasion while with the texas rangers. he said he did not use after that. will be on espn

[Seattle1]

Ohhhh suuuuuuuurrrrrreeeeeeeee.....now he admits it!

:crazy

:laugh

:rofl:

[Dirt Dog]

Will be shown tonight during Sports Center. Said he took them in 2003 when he was with the Rangers.

Should be interesting. http://www.tigerdroppings.com/images/icons/iconpopcorn.gif

[Moses Fleetwood-Walker]

He actually admits he used them from 2001-2003.

[banny]

He actually admits he used them from 2001-2003.
you're correct. I think he'll make out better by admitting it though.

[Seattle1]

He actually admits he used them from 2001-2003.

Good, I'm at least glad it started after he left the Mariners. So that's something anyway.

[ShortStop]

So the 2002 season was indeed tainted.

One down, 103 more to go.

[west coast orange and black]

selena roberts and david epstein reported that rodriguez tested positive for testosterone and primobolan. if true, rodriguez must admit that he used both at the same, one-time occurrence.
maybe we will hear that he had a prescription for the testosterone and things'll work out for the guy.

[Moses Fleetwood-Walker]

During that time period his #'s:

156 HRs, 395 RBIs, .305, 1 MVP, 2 gold gloves.

[spark240]

He actually admits he used them from 2001-2003.

I think he'll make out better by admitting it though.

Well... good for him, for admitting it now that it's out there. (Yes, too bad he wasn't honest in 2007.) The bell can't be unrung--his name and record cannot be entirely untarnished--but this is the best thing he could have done for himself at this point, and the best thing he could have done for the league and the game. And Alex, answer the followup questions too. Don't try to weasel out of any part of it. The jig is up, just tell the truth and reclaim whatever scraps of dignity you can.

Other former (but as yet unrevealed) juicers should take note. Maybe some will get a bit ahead of the game, and come forward before their names get leaked or released.

[OleMissCub]

During that time period his #'s:

156 HRs, 395 RBIs, .305, 1 MVP, 2 gold gloves.

I think you should talk about Ty Cobb being a jerk some more. Surely you can work Cobb into this thread.

[CROM]

I am a forgiving person and i think that the majority of MLB fans are also. I have a lot more respect for him now that he admitted it. He didnt pull an Andy Pettitte who stated that he did HGH once. Instead, he admitted to using PEDs over a 3 year period.
See, I think that most of us just hate the feeling of knowing that somebody thinks that we (the fans) are stupid. Now that he came clean, I accept his apology and i will move on.

[ShortStop]

I am a forgiving person and i think that the majority of MLB fans are also. I have a lot more respect for him now that he admitted it. He didnt pull an Andy Pettitte who stated that he did HGH once. Instead, he admitted to using PEDs over a 3 year period.
See, I think that most of us just hate the feeling of knowing that somebody thinks that we (the fans) are stupid. Now that he came clean, I accept his apology and i will move on.

:clapping Couldn't have said it better :clapping

Although his coming out clean is a little bitter sweet. As much as i try, i can't see him the same no more.

[Seattle1]

Just to play devil's advocate: you might want to think twice before forgiving him.

There is a phenomenon in the human experience where when a person/organization/government/etc. is caught doing something wrong, they will "come forward" and "admit" to a certain amount of wrong-doing, but in reality it is not the full story. They will only admit to just enough to call the dogs off and be forgiven, and take their slap on the wrist....but what they admit to could only be the tip of the iceberg.

[kiluckzle]

I am a forgiving person and i think that the majority of MLB fans are also. I have a lot more respect for him now that he admitted it. He didnt pull an Andy Pettitte who stated that he did HGH once. Instead, he admitted to using PEDs over a 3 year period.


I don't think he admitted it because he wanted respect from the fans. He probably doesn't even care about the fans. Probably the only reason he admitted it is because he didn't want to get in trouble like Bonds and Clemens are right now.

[CROM]

Just to play devil's advocate: you might want to think twice before forgiving him.

There is a phenomenon in the human experience where when a person/organization/government/etc. is caught doing something wrong, they will "come forward" and "admit" to a certain amount of wrong-doing, but in reality it is not the full story. They will only admit to just enough to call the dogs off and be forgiven, and take their slap on the wrist....but what they admit to could only be the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, I am aware of this and i think that 99% of humanity is guilty of it. I think that he took a huge leap admitting to approxmiately 3 years worth of PED usage when he could have admitted to "trying" it twice. Regardless, i think the public (or majority of) would have gone on about their day and waited for their next juicy gossip fix..

[banny]

Just to play devil's advocate: you might want to think twice before forgiving him.

There is a phenomenon in the human experience where when a person/organization/government/etc. is caught doing something wrong, they will "come forward" and "admit" to a certain amount of wrong-doing, but in reality it is not the full story. They will only admit to just enough to call the dogs off and be forgiven, and take their slap on the wrist....but what they admit to could only be the tip of the iceberg.

you've got a point. particularly since he says it was such a "loosey goosey" atmosphere that he doesn't know exactly what he took. kind of incredible a top athlete wouldn't know what he was taking.

[Boston Boxer]

I am a forgiving person and i think that the majority of MLB fans are also. I have a lot more respect for him now that he admitted it. He didnt pull an Andy Pettitte who stated that he did HGH once. Instead, he admitted to using PEDs over a 3 year period.
See, I think that most of us just hate the feeling of knowing that somebody thinks that we (the fans) are stupid. Now that he came clean, I accept his apology and i will move on.

He came clean AFTER he was called out in a report. He tried to get away with it, got caught, and then admitted he did it. That does nothing for me.

The thing that really bothers me is that he did not need to take anything...he was the best player in the league and the best player to come around in a long time if not the best player ever.

[gman5431]

Yeah, this is pretty laughable. He came out to admit what we already know as fact. He lied about this as recently as 4 months ago. At least he is setting the records straight but at this point he either had to or just ignore the situation.

G Man

[Hysteria]

A-Rod did it!

Alex Rodriguez today broke his silence on the steroids question, telling ESPN that he used performance-enhancing drugs when he was with the Texas Rangers.

In the interview, part of which ESPN aired this afternoon, Rodriguez apologized and said he didn't know which drugs he used.

"I was young, I was stupid, I was naive and I wanted to prove to everyone that I was worthy of being one of the greatest players of all time," he said.

"When I arrived in Texas, I felt tremendous pressure to perform," he said. Rodriguez signed a 10-year, $252 million contract when he joined the Rangers.

Rodriguez described the culture then as being "different" and "loose."

Rodriguez said he was "deeply regretful" and added, "I'm just sorry. I'm sorry to my fans, I'm sorry to my fans in Texas."

"It's been a rough 15 months here for me," Rodriguez said. "I was stupid for three years. I was very, very stupid.

"It wasn't a real dramatic day. I started experimenting with things that, today, are not legal," he said, "that today are not accepted ... ever since that incident happened, I realized that I don't need any of it."

Since then, he said he's proved that he doesn't need help from performance-enhancing drugs.

The Yankee superstar's admission comes two days after SI.com broke the news that he tested positive for two anabolic steroids in 2003 while playing for the Texas Rangers.

Since that report, a chorus of commentators have called on A-Rod to come clean, and suggested he has imperiled his chances for entering baseball's Hall of Fame.

[banny]

He came clean AFTER he was called out in a report. He tried to get away with it, got caught, and then admitted he did it. That does nothing for me.

The thing that really bothers me is that he did not need to take anything...he was the best player in the league and the best player to come around in a long time if not the best player ever.
I agree he probably wouldn't have said anything and hoped it would just go away. since it did come out however,I think he'll still stand a better chance with hall of fame voters etc.by any admission of guilt than a clemens or mcgwire,who steadfastly deny it. it's almost to the point where we may have to look at steroid era kind of like the general population smoking cigarettes back in the day. one of those everybody did it then. even athletes. hopefully the game will go on, but it will always be a part of it's history now,like it or not.

[qbannik]

So #762*...

...will someday be eclipsed by #763*

[NJYankeeFan]

I don't think he admitted it because he wanted respect from the fans. He probably doesn't even care about the fans. Probably the only reason he admitted it is because he didn't want to get in trouble like Bonds and Clemens are right now.

If that was the reason, he would have said "No comment". The safest legal thing to do.

[NJYankeeFan]

So #762*...

...will someday be eclipsed by #763*

and #762* replaced #755*.

[bakes781]

So A-Rod NOW, after several days of report coming out, that he infact did take roids from 01 to 03. Why wait several days to come out with this interview? Could it be that he had his lawyers making sure all other so called private tests post 03 were destroyed?

[Atlanta Braves Freak]

I'm hurt by these confessions. All this time, I felt like I could point to A-Rod and say, that's how you play baseball clean and succeed. Well, I guess I was wrong...

[Seattle1]

I'm hurt by these confessions. All this time, I felt like I could point to A-Rod and say, that's how you play baseball clean and succeed. Well, I guess I was wrong...

Yeah, here is the guy you want to point to, imho:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=87250

[NJYankeeFan]

Yeah, here is the guy you want to point to, imho:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=87250

No reason to believe that. He might be name 103.

[bakes781]

I think the next obvious turn this story will inevitably take is DID Bud Selig KNOW of A-Rod's failed test results & try to hide that fact? After all the Mitchell Report just came out a year ago. If you remember Canseco was shocked that A-Rod's name wasn't included.

[cardsfanatic]

I think the next obvious turn this story will inevitably take is DID Bud Selig KNOW of A-Rod's failed test results & try to hide that fact?

Considering these tests were supposed to remain anonymous... I think he did try to hide it. OH NOES!

[Rennie Stennett]

Just to play devil's advocate: you might want to think twice before forgiving him.

There is a phenomenon in the human experience where when a person/organization/government/etc. is caught doing something wrong, they will "come forward" and "admit" to a certain amount of wrong-doing, but in reality it is not the full story. They will only admit to just enough to call the dogs off and be forgiven, and take their slap on the wrist....but what they admit to could only be the tip of the iceberg.

M's,1994: 0, 2, (.204)
M's,1995: 5, 19, (.232)
M's,1996: 36, 123, (.358)
M's, 1997: 23, 84, (.300)
M's, 1998: 42, 124, (.310)
M's, 1999: 42,111, (.285)
M's, 2000: 41, 132, (.316)
Rangers, 2001: 52, 135, (.318)
Rangers, 2002: 57, 142, (.300)
Rangers, 2003: 47, 118, (.298)
Yankees, 2004: 36, 106, (.286)
Yankees, 2005: 48, 130, (.321)
Yankees, 2006: 35, 121, (.290)
Yankees, 2007: 54, 156, (.314)
Yankees, 2008: 35, 103, (.302)
___________________________
Career, 553 HR's, 1606 RBI's, (.306) Lifetime Average

Shane Monahan story by Mike Fish, ESPN:

Clubhouse culture led ex-Mariner to steroids and greenies

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3171167

A-Rod Stats Baseball-Almanac:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/player.php?p=rodrial01

To think that A-Rod only juiced when with Texas from 2001-2003.

[bakes781]

Considering these tests were supposed to remain anonymous... I think he did try to hide it. OH NOES!

Well if that's the case then his eventual confession is the only one I'm interested in followed shortly after with
his immediate resignation. :waving

[boisemarinersfan]

This doesn't bother me any more than anyone else. The use of perfoemance enhancing drugs was so wide spread that its either, live with it and move on, or quit being a fan which I'm not prepaired to do. Some of my fondest baseball memories are of watching the 2001 Mariners every day. Tell me half that team wasn't on the juice. Brett Boone anyone?

[bakes781]

We're supposed to believe he only took the stuff because of the immense pressure and guilt of his contract, but suddenly stopped when he came to the pressure cooker of NY.

[KCGHOST]

I knew someone would get around to blaming Selig for Arod's outing. God forbid we blame the Player's Union.

One thing I do know is that as long as Arod can produce Yankee fans will embrace him. How do I know this?? See Giants fans during the Bonds HR Era.

[bakes781]

I'm blaming Bud for a possible cover up. If it's true that A-Rod was aware that he failed the test then obviously MLBPA must've known as well?

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2009/02/09/arod_did_it_now_about_that_mit.html

my suspicion stems from reading this ^ and thinking back to the Mitchell Report.

[highpockets]

I am a forgiving person and i think that the majority of MLB fans are also. I have a lot more respect for him now that he admitted it. He didnt pull an Andy Pettitte who stated that he did HGH once. Instead, he admitted to using PEDs over a 3 year period.
See, I think that most of us just hate the feeling of knowing that somebody thinks that we (the fans) are stupid. Now that he came clean, I accept his apology and i will move on.
But we ARE stupid. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on you, fool me three times . . . .

[Paulypal]

Just to play devil's advocate: you might want to think twice before forgiving him.

There is a phenomenon in the human experience where when a person/organization/government/etc. is caught doing something wrong, they will "come forward" and "admit" to a certain amount of wrong-doing, but in reality it is not the full story. They will only admit to just enough to call the dogs off and be forgiven, and take their slap on the wrist....but what they admit to could only be the tip of the iceberg.

Please stop. Tip of what iceberg. He used roids ...whats the rest of the story. Maybe he is in Alkaida? Whatever reason he admitted it the fact is he admitted it.

[philkid3]

I knew someone would get around to blaming Selig for Arod's outing. God forbid we blame the Player's Union.

I will happily blame both.

[rockin500]

peter gammons isnt exactly tossing softball questions. certainly harder than larry king has asked in recent years!

[yankeeclipper21]

I knew someone would get around to blaming Selig for Arod's outing. God forbid we blame the Player's Union.

One thing I do know is that as long as Arod can produce Yankee fans will embrace him. How do I know this?? See Giants fans during the Bonds HR Era.

first of all....are NY fans ANYTHING like SF fans? absolutely not...NY fans are are used to winning WS while SF has not seen a WS since 1950 something I believe which is not intended to be a knock against SF at all, but the fanbases are NOTHING alike. Do you think TRUE Yankee fans are gonna give a rat's ass about A-rod breaking the "HR record"? Clearly, they would rather see a WS instead contrary to what the idiots who are currently running the Yankees believe (minus Cashman).

Not to mention Arod has been boomed mercylessly at some point EVERY year he has been here. He was the most hated player in the game BEFORE he came because of his contract which was not the case when Bonds came over from Pitt.

[yamsi12]

first of all....are NY fans ANYTHING like SF fans? absolutely not...NY fans are are used to winning WS while SF has not seen a WS since 1950 something I believe which is not intended to be a knock against SF at all, but the fanbases are NOTHING alike. Do you think TRUE Yankee fans are gonna give a rat's ass about A-rod breaking the "HR record"? Clearly, they would rather see a WS instead.

Not to mention Arod has been boomed mercylessly at some point EVERY year he has been here. He was the most hated player in the game BEFORE he came because of his contract which was not the case when Bonds came over from Pitt.

actually the Giants were in the '02 WS, which is more recent then the Yankees. :laugh

They also hold the distinction of having won more games than any other team in organized sports.

you learn something new everyday.

[Tenorman]

A-Rod having tested positive doesn't really shock me. Sure, he is a supremely talented ballplayer without drugs, but some of his actions over the years, at least to me, have been questionable from a professionalism standpoint (anything to win, no matter how bush league), so it doesn't surprise me that he used.

Perhaps he felt a lot of pressure in Texas to live up to that monster 250-million dollar contract. However, I don't see him just taking for 3 years in Texas and then quitting cold-turkey - especially with the move to the New York media circus and all the pressure that entails.

Yankee fans might have been happier, though, had he taken some different PEDs -- PLAYOFF Enhancing Drugs. ;)

Still, it looks better on him that he actually admitted it, rather than live in denial like some others...

[Buczilla]

Story: Orza denies tipping off A-Rod
SI report said union official gave advance notice of test
By Doug Miller / MLB.com

Gene Orza has responded with a flat denial to allegations that he warned Alex Rodriguez of an upcoming drug test late in the 2004 season, The New York Times reported Monday.
Orza, the chief operating officer of the Major League Baseball Players Association, answered the question from the newspaper with an e-mail that read, "It's not true. Simple as that."

Saturday's report on SI.com cited three unnamed players in saying Rodriguez was tipped off to a test in September 2004. It was just over a year ago that the Mitchell report revealed an anonymous player, identified last month as David Segui in Kirk Radomski's book, "Bases Loaded," also said Orza tipped him off to a test around the same time.

"It makes juicier stuff to suggest there were tip-offs," Orza told the Times. "But there weren't. I don't care about the press coverage. It's irrelevant."

MLB's statement regarding the SI.com report, which said Rodriguez tested positive for two steroids in 2003, showed that the league is concerned at the notion that the union could give players advance notice for tests.

"Any allegation of tipping that took place under prior iterations of the program is of grave concern to Major League Baseball, as such behavior would constitute a serious breach of our agreement," read part of the statement, attributed to MLB executive vice president of labor relations Rob Manfred.

Attempts by MLB.com to reach Orza via telephone were unsuccessful.


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090209&content_id=3811484&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Buczilla]

The NY Times article....

Union Official Says He Did Not Tip Off Rodriguez
By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
Published: February 9, 2009

Gene Orza, the chief operating officer of the baseball players’ union, said on Monday that he did not tip off Alex Rodriguez to a drug test at the end of the 2004 season.

“It’s not true,” Orza said in an e-mail message. “Simple as that.”

A report on Saturday on SI.com, citing three unnamed players, said Rodriguez received such a notice from Orza in September 2004. It was not the first time Orza had been accused of tipping off a player to a coming test: in the Mitchell report, which was released in December 2007, an anonymous player said Orza told him he would be tested in the final weeks of the 2004 season. That player was identified in January as David Segui in the book “Bases Loaded,” by the convicted steroids dealer Kirk Radomski.

Accusations of advance notice concern Major League Baseball because antidoping experts have repeatedly said that any kind of notice increases the likelihood that a player using drugs can find a way to avoid a positive test.

“It makes for juicier stuff to suggest there were tip-offs,” Orza said about the SI.com report. “But there weren’t.”

He added: “I don’t care about the press coverage. It’s irrelevant.”

The report on Saturday on SI.com that Rodriguez tested positive for steroids has reignited questions about Orza’s handling of drug testing in 2003 and 2004.

Rodriguez’s positive 2003 test sample could have been legally destroyed late that year by the players union, along with all other anonymous samples from that season. But for reasons never made clear, they weren’t. Instead, the 104 positive samples, including Rodriguez’s, were seized by federal agents the following April.

The testing in 2004 was the first under which a player could be penalized for a positive test. Each player could be tested once during the season; a player who tested positive would remain unidentified but would be subject to follow-up tests, with a second positive bringing a 15-game suspension. Testing was to begin with the first pitches of April. But there was no testing that month. Nor was there testing in May or June. It was only on July 8, more than halfway through the season, that the first of more than 1,200 players were tested. Until then, the union and Major League Baseball were, among other things, unable to agree on what defined a positive test.

And even though testing began at that point, Major League Baseball and the union instructed those collecting urine samples not to test the 104 players whose positive samples had been seized in that 2004 raid. The federal agents who took those samples did so in connection with the investigation of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative. Baseball and the union agreed that those players would not be tested in 2004 until they could be informed that their 2003 samples had never been destroyed, as originally intended, but instead were in the hands of the government.

But, again, for reasons not entirely clear, the process of informing those 104 players took months. It was only in early September that they were apparently told that they had tested positive in 2003 and would be tested before the 2004 season ended.

Common sense suggests that those players could figure out that they would be tested sometime in the following weeks, because the season would be ending soon. Nevertheless, the question of whether Orza went further than that, and tried to give players more precise information about when they would be tested, continues to nag at the sport.

And even with Orza’s denial on Monday, there is still no complete picture of what occurred in 2004. What is clear is that baseball officials are upset with Orza, both for what happened in 2004 and also for what transpired in 2003.

Those officials are angry that Orza and the union did not act within their rights to have the 2003 anonymous test samples destroyed once they had been tabulated. The test results from that season — marking the first time baseball had tested for performance-enhancing drugs — were not supposed to be known, even for those who tested positive. If more than 5 percent of the results were positive — and they were — then testing with penalties was to begin in 2004, which it did.

One baseball official said Sunday that the final tabulating of the 2003 test samples had been completed by November of that year, implying that the union was free to have everything destroyed. Yet the results remained intact when federal authorities pounced six months later.

The authorities, led by the United States Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of California, at first asked baseball and the union for only the samples of the 10 players who had testified before the grand jury investigating Balco. The prosecutors wanted to see if those players, including Barry Bonds, had been truthful about their use, or non-use, of performance-enhancing drugs.

The union rebuffed the government because the players had agreed to the 2003 tests under the condition that their results would never be revealed.

But without the union’s cooperation, federal agents secured warrants to seize the results for the 10 Balco players. As part of their search, they ended up grabbing the results of the 104 players who had tested positive.

The authorities would ultimately like to question those 104 players — including Rodriguez — about where they received their substances, but they have been prevented from doing so because of legal challenges the union has filed about the seizure of the samples.

But while that issue winds its way through the court system, baseball continues to deal with the fallout of what did occur: a positive 2003 test for Rodriguez that was never destroyed, and a flawed testing system in 2004.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/sports/baseball/10orza.html

[Coach Bombay]

So A-Rod NOW, after several days of report coming out, that he infact did take roids from 01 to 03. Why wait several days to come out with this interview? Could it be that he had his lawyers making sure all other so called private tests post 03 were destroyed?

It was less than 48 hours, where are you getting this several days nonsense? Story broke Saturday afternoon, the interview was Monday morning.

[yankeeclipper21]

actually the Giants were in the '02 WS, which is more recent then the Yankees. :laugh

They also hold the distinction of having won more games than any other team in organized sports.

you learn something new everyday.

I meant to say the last time they WON a World Series. I know obviously they were in it in 2002 and I don't think any true fans can take solace in having won more games than any other team in team sports considering they have NEVER won a World Series in SF. The Yankees won more games than ANYONE in the 80's without a WS title.

Also, baseball has more games than any other sport in the regular season, and the Giants were one of the original teams so that stat means utterly nothing to me.

[jnakamura]

and #762* replaced #755*.

Hank Aaron's stats spiked when used anabolic steroids for several years like A-Fraud? Don't think so

Like trying pep pills once or twice helps pad your stats like juicing for three years. :rolleyes:

[NJYankeeFan]

Hank Aaron's stats spiked when used anabolic steroids for several years like A-Fraud? Don't think so

Like trying pep pills once or twice helps pad your stats like juicing for three years. :rolleyes:

Yes, amphetamines can have a major impact on you. Roll your eyes all you like, but if you are going to crucify one player for not being pure as snow, don't drink the others yellow stuff.

[Knick9]

you might want to think twice before forgiving him.

There is a phenomenon in the human experience where when a person/organization/government/etc. is caught doing something wrong, they will "come forward" and "admit" to a certain amount of wrong-doing, but in reality it is not the full story. They will only admit to just enough to call the dogs off and be forgiven, and take their slap on the wrist....but what they admit to could only be the tip of the iceberg.

This was a great post to quote right here. ^

Yeah, just what I and many others expected all along. A-Rod admitting to using steroids...not exactly earth shattering because of who we're talking about, but still, you have to take into account that if this news was never leaked out, some would've gone on the perception that he was clean all the time.

Well, I knew his "pure talent" was too good to be true, and I think even awhile back I mentioned A-Rod's name about this. I was expecting this to blow up in his face sooner or later, to be quite honest with you. Just saying.

Oh, and come on! #755 with an *? I hold the belief that Hank Aaron was clean through it all. You're, I don't know, about 30 years too late on that one? :rolleyes:

[jnakamura]

Yes, amphetamines can have a major impact on you. Roll your eyes all you like, but if you are going to crucify one player for not being pure as snow, don't drink the others yellow stuff.

Who's crucifying him? Who said Hank was pure? I mearly said that trying a greenie once or twice did not pad 30 extra homers onto Aarons record as Alex's steroid use did with his stats.

[Dirt Dog]

I am a forgiving person too but A-Rod only came out because of the SI article. I would have more respect for him if he would have admitted it during the Katie COuric interview in Dec. 2007, but no...he is only speaking now because he what?...feels guilty about what he's done? How do we know he's telling the whole truth now. He lied once before.

During the interview he's saying that Roberts is a stalker and he had a police report and everything. Gammons should have at least looked at it or asked about it. I heard that she's going to put some stuff in her book about his sexuality that will not make him seem...all that straight.

[wu-tang clan]

Very good decision to admit. Bonds, Big Mac didn't admit to anything and they're still getting hate, but Giambi admitted to it pretty soon after news spread about his use and he is as popular as ever now.

[Seels]

peter gammons isnt exactly tossing softball questions. certainly harder than larry king has asked in recent years!

Are you kidding me? He didn't ask one tough question, and didn't follow up any of his questions.

This whole thing was set up to be easy on Arod.

Gammons could have easily asked any of: What made you stop using steroids? When exactly did you start / stop using PED's? and the big one, Why should anyone believe you now?

[csh19792001]

God forbid we blame the Player's Union.


Good point.

The most outrageous thing is not that his test results were divulged; it's that MLBPA chief Gene Orza tipped off players in advance of testing.

This completely invalidates the credibility and reliabilty of the entire testing process. For several years MLB has touted their as the most stringent and punitive among the major American sports.

So much for that.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

actually the Giants were in the '02 WS, which is more recent then the Yankees. :laugh
Umm...no. The Yankees were in the 2003 World Series.

[csh19792001]

Union official tipped A-Rod to test, report alleges

by Ken Rosenthal

My 17-year-old son, while not a baseball fan, is savvy to the game's ways. When I told him Saturday that Alex Rodriguez had tested positive for steroids in 2003, he scoffed at the supposed bombshell by SI.com, saying it didn't qualify as news.

"If I've heard of him," my son said, "he used steroids."

Well, that about sums it up, doesn't it? Anyone with even a passing awareness of baseball no longer is surprised to learn that a player — any player — used performance-enhancing drugs. We all have learned to be cynical, and rightly so.

Believe what you will. Or believe nothing at all.

A-Rod's achievements suddenly are in question. So is the legitimacy of Major League Baseball's drug-testing program, which league officials continue to trumpet as the "toughest" in professional sports.

On paper perhaps, but not in practice if top union officials are giving players advance knowledge of upcoming drug tests, as alleged in the SI.com report and the Mitchell Report in 2007.

The most disturbing aspect of the SI.com report was not the revelation that A-Rod now belongs with Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Mark McGwire on the Mount Rushmore of juicers.

No, the most disturbing allegation is that Rodriguez was tipped off in September 2004 that he would be tested later that month, tipped off by none other than Gene Orza, the union's chief operating officer.

Orza was accused of much the same thing in the Mitchell Report, which said he violated the union's agreement with MLB by informing a player about an upcoming drug test. The player was not identified in the report.

As any expert will tell you, drug-testing programs are inherently flawed, often amounting to little more than public relations as the cheaters find new ways to stay ahead of the testers.

But the allegations of tipping — denied by the union — create an even bigger problem for MLB, casting doubt on the credibility of its program.

Perhaps the union is getting a bad rap, but it has been on the wrong side of this issue at every turn.

For years, union officials refused to acknowledge the extent of the steroid problem; Orza once said, "I have no doubt that they are not worse than cigarettes."

The union later fought testing, ignoring the interests of its members who were put at a competitive disadvantage if they refrained from using PEDs.

Finally, in the most irresponsible of blunders, the union failed to make sure that the positive samples from '03 were destroyed, even though MLB had agreed to such a plan.

The players agreed to the tests only after being promised anonymity. The tests carried no penalties; MLB was simply trying to determine through a survey whether to implement mandatory testing.

You know the rest: Federal agents, while investigating BALCO, discovered the list of 104 players who tested positive. Surprise! The names are starting to leak, with Rodriguez's being the first.

A-Rod bears responsibility for testing positive, but his dirty little secret would have remained private if not for the union's negligence. When some or all of the other players on the list are identified, they can thank the union, too.

The bottom line: We should never have learned that A-Rod tested positive, but now we know. His image, the union's image and MLB's image will not easily recover, no matter how much spin they all apply.

Can't wait to hear if A-Rod uses the "Andy Pettitte defense" — "I only did it once!" Perhaps he will simply arrive at spring training and give the cheater's copout, announcing, "Baseball questions only."

Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, said that even if the SI.com report were true, Boras said, "it was one season and since then Alex has gotten the good-housekeeping seal the last five years."

Meaning, A-Rod must be clean, because he hasn't tested positive for steroids since '03. As if it were that simple. As if players did not use undetectable substances such as human growth hormone. Please.

The truth is, this will never end. There will be no "Mission Accomplished" banner for MLB, no news conference at which Commissioner Bud Selig can honestly proclaim, "The problem has been eliminated."

The game probably is cleaner now than it was, say, from 1998 to 2003; some players, at least for the moment, are scared of testing positive. But fans should not trust that any professional sport, including the almighty NFL, is drug-free.

I've written before that perhaps the Steroid Era will be viewed differently in 10, 20 or 30 years. Fans, judging from attendance, are hardly outraged by PED use. They might grow downright accepting when genetic engineering and other scientific developments produce further "advances."

In the end, the bigger problem might be defining the era, giving it perspective. As we learned again Saturday, we still don't know who did what, and to what end. All we know is that nothing surprises us anymore, nothing at all.

[rockin500]

Are you kidding me? He didn't ask one tough question, and didn't follow up any of his questions.

This whole thing was set up to be easy on Arod.

Gammons could have easily asked any of: What made you stop using steroids? When exactly did you start / stop using PED's? and the big one, Why should anyone believe you now?
he was tough enough. they did put him on the spot. he could have followed them up better, sure. But I didnt think he sugarcoated the questions. Gammons has no reason to like rodriguez and go soft on him, as he has been harsh on him in the past. Just how it came across to me.

[YankeeDJW]

I am a forgiving person too but A-Rod only came out because of the SI article. I would have more respect for him if he would have admitted it during the Katie COuric interview in Dec. 2007, but no...he is only speaking now because he what?...feels guilty about what he's done? How do we know he's telling the whole truth now. He lied once before.

At least he learned something from Clemens and McGwire. He clearly only admitted it because he was caught and anyone who thinks otherwise is naive, but at least he realized it's better to admit it and move on. It's easy for us, as fans, to act all self-righteous about the issue, when the truth is, we've all done things we would never admit unless we were caught.

I heard that she's going to put some stuff in her book about his sexuality that will not make him seem...all that straight.

I never heard of this reporter before, but if that above statement is true, I will gouge my eyes out before reading another article from her. Is she a sports reporter or does she work for TMZ? To be honest, I'm kind of embarrassed that it came up in this forum at all.

[Dirt Dog]

I never heard of this reporter before, but if that above statement is true, I will gouge my eyes out before reading another article from her. Is she a sports reporter or does she work for TMZ? To be honest, I'm kind of embarrassed that it came up in this forum at all.


http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/original/1119roberts.jpg

Her name is Selena Roberts, she use to work for the NY Times for about 10 years and now is with for SI. I remember her name because she wrote about the Duke Lacrosse team incident back in 2006 and said that she believed the accussed had banded together to protect the each other of rape in that case which wasn't true.

She has a book coming out May 19, 2009 called Hit and Run: The Many Lives of Alex Rodriguez and supposedly she was doing work on the book when all this came out.

[ipitch]

Are you kidding me? He didn't ask one tough question, and didn't follow up any of his questions.

This whole thing was set up to be easy on Arod.

Gammons could have easily asked any of: What made you stop using steroids? When exactly did you start / stop using PED's? and the big one, Why should anyone believe you now?

You apparently did not see the whole interview. Gammons pretty much asked ALL of those questions (or at least ARod answered them before Gammons had a chance to ask them).

Here's the transcript. See for yourself.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3895281

[spark240]

I heard that she's going to put some stuff in her book...

I could give some links here, but this is a family site.

[Seattle1]

You apparently did not see the whole interview. Gammons pretty much asked ALL of those questions (or at least ARod answered them before Gammons had a chance to ask them).

Here's the transcript. See for yourself.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3895281

Ok I watched the interview, I thought he did ok. But just ok. At least he did it as soon as the allegations came out, and didn't try to stonewall for months or years on end. I did find some of his answers to be quite vague and evasive. Boy did his face look flushed, must have been draining.

[Ubiquitous]

I think he is still lying in his "confession".

He claims to have never heard about anyone taking drugs while playing for Seattle yet Seattle was a drug den. Many players got fingered in the Mitchell report and Monahan confessed to taking drugs as a Mariner and said that every single player except for Dan Wilson was taking something.

[Mattingly]

Who's crucifying him? Who said Hank was pure? I mearly said that trying a greenie once or twice did not pad 30 extra homers onto Aarons record as Alex's steroid use did with his stats.
I'm curious, how would you know jow many dingers or RBI (another Aaron career record) that those greenies gave Hank? I only know that the amphetamines gave players the "get up and go" type of energy they'd needed. With steroids, it was about being able to recover quickly, and greater strength. No wonder bodybuilders, powerlifters, Olympic athletes would use these.

I'm a bit let down that Alex Rodriguez would do this. He has such great talent. He seemed to ave some demons he's fighting, since he's said he wanted to prove that he was worth the $252m/10 yr deal. I would've suggested that he would've continued doing exactly what he did in Seattle: great offense, defense, baserunning skills.

Now because he wanted to cheat, he joins Jose Canseco as an admitted steroids user. What extra help would he need? Disapointment and a great deal of embarrassment would be my only thoughts on Alex Rodriguez' decision to use steroids.

Now his monster 2007 season comes into question. Did he only use once from 2001-03? Did he use it last year? I'd have gladly taken what he'd have given us clean. Very sad day, Saturday was. :o :(

Now who are the other 104 players?

[Ubiquitous]

Just remember folks that before Bonds and his steroids came along the guy with the title for the greatest old age seasons in baseball was Hank Aaron for what he was doing in the late 60's and early 70's.

[csh19792001]

Just remember folks that before Bonds and his steroids came along the guy with the title for the greatest old age seasons in baseball was Hank Aaron for what he was doing in the late 60's and early 70's.

"The guys with the title for greatest old age seasons". Can you qualify this statement with specifics so I know where you're coming from?

[Ubiquitous]

I've qualified it numerous times in numerous threads in which you paticipated in.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

"The guys with the title for greatest old age seasons". Can you qualify this statement with specifics so I know where you're coming from?

I'm not sure what some consider old age seasons. I can tell you this much if it's what I believe to be reasonable age 35-39, Hank Aaron is not even on the same page as Barry, not even the same planet.
There is no player ever that put up numbers that Barry put up in those years at that age.
This comparison or attempt to compare Hank and Barry pops up now and then, there is no comparison.
Barry put up numbers late in his career that rival some 3 year peaks that some of the greatest put up in their prime, so where does Hank even enter the picture at age 35-39.

[Dirt Dog]

I could give some links here, but this is a family site.

We're just one big family here! :D

[Ubiquitous]

I'm not sure what some consider old age seasons. I can tell you this much if it's what I believe to be reasonable age 35-39, Hank Aaron is not even on the same page as Barry, not even the same planet.
There is no player ever that put up numbers that Barry put up in those years at that age.
This comparison or attempt to compare Hank and Barry pops up now and then, there is no comparison.
Barry put up numbers late in his career that rival some 3 year peaks that some of the greatest put up in their prime, so where does Hank even enter the picture at age 35-39.

And yet somebody before Bonds had to be #1 correct?

It is a false dichotomy, it isn't either they are comparable or they are not. Being in the same ballpark isn't even an issue. Brian Downing isn't even in the same ballpark as Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco isn't in the same ballpark as Barry Bonds. Comparing Bonds to any of these players doesn't prove anything.


Hank Aaron a known drug user had before Barry came a long the greatest old age career in the history of the game. His old age seasons are comparable to his prime seasons. Nowadays that would be a huge red flag. If you want to compare anything compare Hank Aaron to himself.

[Yankee Mystique]

I still support him all the way.

[fenrir]

i commend him for coming forward and admitting to using, but i am skeptical about his claim that he's been steroid free since 03. i guess nobody but him will ever know for sure.

[Dodger_Ric]

Pujols will be next......:rainy:

[White Knight]

There were a few people here who when I mentioned McGwire being the best HR hitter of my lifetime, would say how A-Rod could have hit 70 on the juice. Now I get to laugh in their faces. 10.61 forever baby!

[SHOELESSJOE3]

And yet somebody before Bonds had to be #1 correct?
It is a false dichotomy, it isn't either they are comparable or they are not. Being in the same ballpark isn't even an issue. Brian Downing isn't even in the same ballpark as Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco isn't in the same ballpark as Barry Bonds. Comparing Bonds to any of these players doesn't prove anything.


Hank Aaron a known drug user had before Barry came a long the greatest old age career in the history of the game. His old age seasons are comparable to his prime seasons. Nowadays that would be a huge red flag. If you want to compare anything compare Hank Aaron to himself.

Your opener, somebody had to be number one before Barry.
Somebody is always number one before some other tops them.
Whats the point here, to the obvious.

You brought up Hank and his performance at the old age years, I don't know what you consider that period to be, I used 35-39.

We've been down this road before and my answer is the same, Hank's late years was a blip compared to Barry.

In the past on this board, the names Aaron late seasons and the other joke Maris in 1961.............. "what about them" some were saying, "why zero in on Barry," anything to make Barry's explosion late years look not so out of the ordinary. This is why I put them along side each other in performance.

[Ubiquitous]

And again, why are you comparing Hank Aaron to Barry Bonds? Comparing Bonds to Aaron doesn't mean Hank is innocent. Comparing Bonds to ARod doesn't make ARod innocent.

[gman5431]

Even the admission rubbed me the wrong way. You want to talk about naive. I think its incredibly naive to actually believe that he only started taking steroids in 2001. Why then? He was already entrenched as the best player in the game. I dont have any reason to believe that he wasnt taking steroids as early as jr. high. I dont believe that he isnt taking something right now, whether it be HGH or some designer steroid there is no test for. The admission made me feel like he was saying he made a mistake that everyone did, i'm not going to give much detail about it and it was a short time thing that is over. And i dont believe that.

G Man

[banny]

Pujols will be next......:rainy:

What's interesting to me is that in the last 8 years or so, either Flex or Muscle and Fitness has done a full workout spread on Bonds, A-Rod,Pujols and I'm not sure but I think also Clemens.

[Avg_Hr_Rbi]

Even the admission rubbed me the wrong way. You want to talk about naive. I think its incredibly naive to actually believe that he only started taking steroids in 2001. Why then? He was already entrenched as the best player in the game. I dont have any reason to believe that he wasnt taking steroids as early as jr. high. I dont believe that he isnt taking something right now, whether it be HGH or some designer steroid there is no test for. The admission made me feel like he was saying he made a mistake that everyone did, i'm not going to give much detail about it and it was a short time thing that is over. And i dont believe that.

G Man



I care less that he used them....my only issue is like your's...his constant usage of the word "Naive" even saying that he wasn't aware that he failed the test until SI came out with it last week, also stated how everyone was on something, his actual word was.."GNC".....and as you stated...why wait until 01?

imho, he should have at least been man enough to say...yes I used them because I wanted a edge...not because he was "Naive"

[Paulypal]

I care less that he used them....my only issue is like your's...his constant usage of the word "Naive" even saying that he wasn't aware that he failed the test until SI came out with it last week, also stated how everyone was on something, his actual word was.."GNC".....and as you stated...why wait until 01?

imho, he should have at least been man enough to say...yes I used them because I wanted a edge...not because he was "Naive"


He did say he used them because he wanted to be one of the greatest players besides being naive.

[bakes781]

It was a very half assed apology IMO. He claimed he was "naive & stupid". Well sorry but you must think the rest of us are equally as naive & stupid to believe that you didn't know what you were putting into your $250 million body! Then he attacks the very person who revealed his failed test and claimed she isn't to be trusted. Sorry A-Roid but it is you that I'm done believing.

[gman5431]

I care less that he used them....my only issue is like your's...his constant usage of the word "Naive" even saying that he wasn't aware that he failed the test until SI came out with it last week, also stated how everyone was on something, his actual word was.."GNC".....and as you stated...why wait until 01?

imho, he should have at least been man enough to say...yes I used them because I wanted a edge...not because he was "Naive"

Amen. I do differ from you because i feel cheated because he used them. But i acknowledge that a lot of people used them from that era and we will never know who did what so its hard to really define anything.

But yeah, the interview was pretty bogus. Would have given him a lot more respect if he had said i did them my whole career to realize my potential.

G MAn

[Buczilla]

I don't think it really mattered what he said. He was gonna catch a ton of heat regardless. The picture had already been painted in most peoples minds.

[Seattle1]

This was a great post to quote right here. ^


Thanks, Knick9!

:)

[spark240]

I too find it very hard to believe that he did not know what "banned substance" he was taking.

See this interesting discussion of Primobolan (http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/primobolan-ultimate-steroid-i-think-yes) as the "ultimate steroid."

[SHOELESSJOE3]

And again, why are you comparing Hank Aaron to Barry Bonds? Comparing Bonds to Aaron doesn't mean Hank is innocent. Comparing Bonds to ARod doesn't make ARod innocent.

I never said it made Hank innocent and never mentioned AROD.
Every do often when Barry is part of a discussion you toss Hank into the mix and speak of his old age seasons.
And when you do I have to tell you, your comparing a blip by Hank and an explosion by Barry when they were both in the years 35-39 years of age.

You don't have to compare them. I do it so others who have not dug too deep will know that they are completely different in late surge.

[White Knight]

It shows the effects of steroids are overrated. He hit in the 40's before the steroids, hit 57 on seteroids, and hit 54 after.

[Pete Rose Rounding Third]

Yes, A-Rod admitted it in an interview following the SI story. This is not quite the same thing as coming clean. Coming clean would be someone like Albert Pujols (for example, not accusing here) holding a press conference out of the blue to admit his own usage, not responding to anything.

A-Rod isn't "coming clean"; he's performing "damage control".

[White Knight]

Yes, A-Rod admitted it in an interview following the SI story. This is not quite the same thing as coming clean. Coming clean would be someone like Albert Pujols (for example, not accusing here) holding a press conference out of the blue to admit his own usage, not responding to anything.

A-Rod isn't "coming clean"; he's performing "damage control".

Can't fault him for that. Who should anyone admit they did something before it's out in the open? If there's a chance I wouldn't be cought for something I haven't done since 2003, I'd shut my mouth.

[Ubiquitous]

I never said it made Hank innocent and never mentioned AROD.
Every do often when Barry is part of a discussion you toss Hank into the mix and speak of his old age seasons.


You don't have to compare them. I do it so others who have not dug too deep will know that they are completely different in late surge.

I toss Hank into the conversation because people claim they want the clean records back and those clean numbers belong to Hank Aaron.


And when you do I have to tell you, your comparing a blip by Hank and an explosion by Barry when they were both in the years 35-39 years of age.
And again I'm not comparing Hank to Barry, saying Hank is a blip compared to Barry means little to whether or not Hank's records are clean.

[Buczilla]

Here is Katie Couric and Arod discussing steroids in 2007.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RgCDpqTJYw

[Seattle1]

Here is Katie Couric and Arod discussing steroids in 2007.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RgCDpqTJYw


Alex Rodriguez sleeps with Jose Canseco's wife and buys steroids from his dealer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-tGkrQ12mo

[Buczilla]

You could tell by Arod's expression back in that interview that he was feeding Katie soup. The man deserves no sympathy or praise for speaking out after the fact.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I toss Hank into the conversation because people claim they want the clean records back and those clean numbers belong to Hank Aaron.


And again I'm not comparing Hank to Barry, saying Hank is a blip compared to Barry means little to whether or not Hank's records are clean.

Never said he was clean.

[Brad Harris]

But yeah, the interview was pretty bogus.
I blame Couric. If she knew A-Rod was a Republican, she'd have grilled him harder.

[White Knight]

Here is Katie Couric and Arod discussing steroids in 2007.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RgCDpqTJYw

Look at it this way: He didn't plan on lying. It's not his fault that Couric asked him the question. I'd only fault him for lying if he started talking to interviewers and randomly came out and said "I never used steroids" without them asking him the question.

[Ubiquitous]

Never said he was clean.

Okay, so I say Hank's numbers are not clean. I say Hank used to have the greatest old age seasons in the history of the game and that should be a red flag. I say Hank is a known drug user. And your response to all of that is that Bonds numbers are better, way better. I'm finding it hard to understand why that is relevant.

[csh19792001]

Hank Aaron a known drug user had before Barry came a long the greatest old age career in the history of the game. His old age seasons are comparable to his prime seasons. Nowadays that would be a huge red flag. If you want to compare anything compare Hank Aaron to himself.

"A known drug user". Are you actually trying to equate him with Bonds again? You're using Bonds as the frame of reference here.

Tell us how taking one greenie - or even many- is in any way equivalent or even similar to what Bonds took and did during his BALCO years.

Aaron's old age seasons aren't comparable to his prime seasons.

-He became a one dimensional player and starting trying to pull everything for home runs.

-He moved to The Launching Pad, which was the best home run park in baseball. Previously, he had played at Country Stadium, which was one of the worst parks in modern history for home run hitting. This gave him more of a reason to become basically one dimensional.

(FWIW, Bonds, by contrast, moved to the worst HR park in the entire National League)

-The league lowered the mound and the game swung back in favor of hitters in a big way from the mid 60's.

There are degrees of cheating and performance enhancement and each has to be considered on a case by case basis. Why people completely miss the mark on this one is puzzling to me.

[csh19792001]

Hank used to have the greatest old age seasons in the history of the game.

How was Hank the greatest old player in the history of the game? You keep throwing this out there but why is this your conclusion?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

How was Hank the greatest old player in the history of the game? You keep throwing this out there but why is this your conclusion?

From age 35 onward Aaron played eight seasons and hit:

.282/.376/.539, 150 OPS+, 245 HR, 670 RBI, 571 R

From age 35 forward his OPS+ were
177, 188, 194, 147, 177, 128, 95, 102

His OWP% were
.782, .738, .852, .733, .820, .657, .462, .479

This looks impressive, however, I have no idea how this compares to the other greats. Obviously, OPS+ and OWP% don't take into account Aaron's defense and baserunning.

[csh19792001]

From age 35 onward Aaron played eight seasons and hit...

Ted Williams' OPS+ after age 35 was 189, up till age 35 it was 192- meaning on paper he was just as great after 35 as he was before. How's that for greatest old age seasons? At 38 his OPS+ was 233- better than any peak season and basically identical to 1941 (with a few fewer PA).

He must have been "a drug user" too.....or perhaps he changed his emphasis and approach to the game as his skill set changed?

[Ubiquitous]

I do find it funny that when a modern player who is still playing does well the best we can say is "we hope it is legit" even though there has never been a whisper of drug use. Yet when talk about a player who played 35 years ago, who admitted to taking drugs, who has an unusual career arc, and who played in a drug era it is outrageous, OUTRAGEOUS do say he used PEDS.

It is hypocrisy. You can't sit there and say maybe Pujols takes PEDS and then completely exonerate Hank Aaron because . . well he is Hank Aaron.



Where is Michael Jackson when you need him to sing a few lines?

[csh19792001]

Where is Michael Jackson when you need him to sing a few lines?

And this is substantive.....

Amphetamines are like coke or Red Bull; short lived and completely ephemeral, with absolutely no long term positive effect. Let's presume Aaron was a regular greenie user.... although we have no proof on which to base this. Fair enough, you've claimed on many occasions that greenies were "rampant" during the time frame in question, and that steroids were very much prevalent towards the end of his career.

The fact is- considering contextual factors- Hank absolutely did not have the greatest "old age" period in baseball history. He isn't even close.

He also wasn't DRASTICALLY altering his physiognomy and physical potential, as Barry and other juicers were.

How exactly do people equate greenies with many years of pre-meditated, systematized ingestion of:

-"Cream :and "The Clear"
-Insulin
-HGH (human growth hormone
-Testosterone Decanoate "Mexican Beans"
-Trenbolone (A cattle steroid)

He cycled for years, as the freakish bodybuilders do; he took pills, drops under his tongue, injections, he even applied BALCO's testosterone cream topically.

This is what no Bonds/steroid apologist can do- address the question of his use versus Aaron's purported use directly. Or the others rumored to have taken greenies from his era, for that matter (Mays and Mantle).

And you wonder why Barry's hat size increased after age 34.......

[Ubiquitous]

And why is what Bonds did important to the discussion of Hank Aaron and what he did?

[csh19792001]

And why is what Bonds did important to the discussion of Hank Aaron and what he did?

I dunno. You tell us, since you invoked it into your discussion here.


Hank Aaron a known drug user had before Barry came a long the greatest old age career in the history of the game. His old age seasons are comparable to his prime seasons.

[Ubiquitous]

So if I said before WWII Lefty Grove was the best pitcher in the game I've just invoked the Nazis?
Am I comparing Lefty Grove's fastball to the Holocaust?

[csh19792001]

So if I said before WWII Lefty Grove was the best pitcher in the game I've just invoked the Nazis?
Am I comparing Lefty Grove's fastball to the Holocaust?

They were both completely devastating and inspired fear in the masses....