BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1938 [Archive]

View Full Version : BBF Progressive HoF Election: 1938

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02-07-2009, 08:14 AM

PLEASE READ BEFORE VOTING!

Format and Rules
Voting Rules: Voters may vote for between 0-15 candidates. Votes will be made public, and voters are encouraged to post their ballots in the thread and not view results before voting. PLEASE LIMIT YOUR BALLOT TO 15 VOTES AT MOST. EXCESS VOTES MAY RESULT IN YOUR BALLOT BEING DISQUALIFIED.
-Blank Ballots: A "None of the Above" option is available if you believe no one is worthy and you wish to submit a blank ballot. This option is not to be taken lightly and it is strongly urged that it be used only after the utmost consideration, as non-votes carry great weight. Additionally, if using this option, please post your rationale.

Thoughtfulness and Editing Ballots: Please review and thoughtfully consider the candidates before voting, and make sure you have accurately filled out your ballot before submitting. Requests for editing ballots after the fact will generally not be honored. Exceptions might be made if a voter accidentally voted for the wrong player or accidentally went over the voting limit (but I strongly encourage you to do your best to prevent either from happening).

Required Support: Players receiving at least 75% support in an election will be elected. Players need at least 5% support to stay on the ballot, with an exception for first-year eligible players, who will need at least 1 vote to appear on the next ballot.

Player Eligibility: Players eligible for an election will have last played at least 5 years prior to the election year and have appeared in at least 10 Major League seasons . If a player appeared in less than 10 seasons, he may still be eligible if he had a minimum of 3000 ABs or 1500 IP, though extra scrutiny will be applied. Players will remain on the ballot for 15 years, provided they continue to receive at least 5% of the vote, at which point they will become indefinitely eligible for periodic elections conducted by the Veterans Committee.
- Age Exception: For players 40 or older, they will become eligible the later of either 5 years after their last year of continuous play, or their first inactive year at age 45 or older.

Election Period: Elections will close exactly one week after starting. The next election might not commence for another day or two.

1938 Guide
There are 36 candidates on the 1938 ballot – 22 holdovers and 14 first timers. First time eligible players last played in 1933 (unless qualifying under the age rule).

First Timers (14)
Lu Blue
Taylor Douthit
Red Faber
Lew Fonseca
Hod Ford
Bob Fothergill
Bernie Friberg
Dolly Gray
Ray Kremer
Rabbit Maranville (age rule)
Jack Quinn
Harry Rice
Eppa Rixey
Joe Sewell

Holdovers (22)
Player Year of Eligibility Previous Support High Support Low Support Average Support
Dave Bancroft 4th 20.54% 28.13% (1936) 20.54% (1937) 25.31%
George J. Burns 9th 11.77% 24.00% (1930) 9.09% (1935) 16.47%
Wilbur Cooper 8th 44.12% 58.33% (1932) 33.33% (1935) 46.40%
Gavvy Cravath 14th 23.58% 37.50% (1925) 18.18% (1935) 26.18%
Johnny Evers 13th 29.41% 41.67% (1932) 21.21% (1935) 29.35%
Larry Gardner 10th 8.82% 15.63% (1931) 6.25% (1936) 9.13%
Harry Hooper 9th 17.65% 34.38% (1931) 15.63% (1936) 22.50%
George Kelly 2nd 2.94% 2.94% (1937) 2.94% (1937) 2.94%
Ed Konetchy 13th 14.71% 16.67% (1932) 8.00% (1929) 12.25%
Rube Marquard 9th 11.77% 28.00% (1930) 9.38% (1936) 17.82%
Carl Mays 5th 52.94% 52.94% (1937) 45.45% (1935) 48.82%
Bob Meusel 4th 5.88% 9.09% (1935) 5.88% (1937) 7.07%
Del Pratt 10th 14.71% 20.83% (1932) 9.38% (1936) 14.75%
Eddie Rommel 2nd 2.94% 2.94% (1937) 2.94% (1937) 2.94%
Ray Schalk 5th 20.59% 25.00% (1934) 18.18% (1935) 20.63%
Wally Schang 3rd 32.35% 34.38% (1936) 32.35% (1937) 33.37%
Urban Shocker 6th 29.41% 35.71% (1933) 24.24% (1935) 31.34%
Hippo Vaughn 13th 14.71% 21.43% (1934) 10.71% (1927) 15.79%
Bobby Veach 9th 26.47% 39.29% (1934) 24.00% (1930) 30.40%
Cy Williams 4th 11.77% 15.15% (1935) 11.77% (1937) 13.14%
Joe Wood 12th 5.88% 35.71% (1927) 5.88% (1937) 19.42%
Ross Youngs 8th 11.43% 12.50% (1931) 6.25% (1936) 9.75%

Holdovers Dropped from Last Election (2)
Player Reason Years on Ballot High Support Low Support Average Support
Rip Collins Lack of Support 2 3.13% (1936) 0% (1937) 1.57%
Joe Dugan Lack of Support 2 3.13% (1936) 0% (1937) 1.57%

Last Year of Eligibility (0)
Player High Support

Penultimate Year of Eligibility (0)
Player High Support
Gavvy Cravath 37.50% (1925)

Holdovers Receiving At Least 50% in the Previous Election (1)
Player Previous Support Years with At Least 50% Support
Carl Mays 52.94% 2

HALL OF FAMERS

Players Elected (80)
Player Year Elected Election Percentage Years on Ballot Position Primary Team Active Years Total Seasons Living/Deceased Age at Election
Pete Alexander 1935 93.94% 1 Pitcher Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1911-1930 20 Living - Age 51 48
Cap Anson 1902 100% 1 First Base Chicago White Stockings (Cubs) (NL) 1871-1897 27 Deceased (1852-1922) 50
Frank Baker 1927 96.43% 1 Third Base Philadelphia Athletics (AL) 1908-1914, 1916-1919, 1921-1922 13 Living - Age 52 41
Ross Barnes^ 1911 76.00% 11 Second Base Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1879, 1881 9 Deceased (1850-1915) 61
Jake Beckley 1917 76.00% 6 First Base Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1887-1907 20 Deceased (1867-1918) 50
Charlie Bennett 1907 75.00% 7 Catcher Detroit Wolverines (NL) 1878, 1880-1893 15 Deceased (1854-1927) 53
Roger Bresnahan 1925 79.17% 6 Catcher New York Giants (NL) 1897, 1900-1915 17 Living - Age 57 46
Dan Brouthers 1901 90.00% 1 First Base Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1879-1896, 1904 18 Deceased (1858-1932) 50
Mordecai Brown 1921 96.77% 1 Pitcher Chicago Cubs (NL) 1903-1916 14 Living – Age 62 45
Pete Browning 1909 77.27% 9 Center Field/Left Field Louisville Colonels (NL/AA) 1882-1894 13 Deceased (1861-1905) Deceased
Jesse Burkett 1910 92.00% 1 Left field Cleveland Spiders (NL) 1890-1905 16 Living – Age 70 42
Max Carey 1934 82.14% 1 Center Field Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1910-1929 20 Living - Age 48 44
Bob Caruthers 1909 77.27% 9 Pitcher/Right Field St. Louis Browns (Cardinals) (NL/AA) 1884-1893 10 Deceased (1864-1911) 45
Frank Chance 1932 83.33% 14 First Base Chicago Cubs (NL) 1898-1914 17 Deceased (1876-1924) Deceased
Cupid Childs 1920 76.92% 15 Second Base Cleveland Spiders (NL) 1888, 1890-1901 13 Deceased (1867-1912) Deceased
Fred Clarke 1917 88.00% 1 Left Field Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1894-1915 21 Living – Age 70 45
John Clarkson 1901 90.00% 1 Pitcher Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1882, 1884-1894 12 Deceased (1861-1909) 40
Ty Cobb 1933 96.55% 1 Center Field Detroit Tigers (AL) 1905-1928 24 Living - Age 52 47
Eddie Collins 1935 96.67% 1 Second Base Chicago White Sox (AL) 1906-1930 25 Living Age - 51 48
Jimmy Collins 1913 82.61% 1 Third Base Boston Americans (Red Sox) (AL) 1895-1908 14 Living – Age 68 43
Roger Connor 1902 79.17% 1 First Base New York Giants (NL) 1880-1897 18 Deceased (1857-1931) 45
Stan Coveleski 1934 89.29% 2 Pitcher Cleveland Indians (AL) 1912, 1916-1928 14 Living - Age 49 45
Sam Crawford 1922 92.86% 1 Right Field Detroit Tigers (AL) 1899-1917 19 Living – Age 58 41
Bill Dahlen 1916 88.00% 1 Shortstop Chicago Colts (Cubs) (NL) 1891-1911 21 Living – Age 68 46
George Davis 1914 84.62% 1 Shortstop New York Giants (NL) 1890-1909 20 Living – Age 68 44
Ed Delahanty 1908 96.00% 1 Left Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1888-1903 16 Deceased (1867-1903) Deceased
Larry Doyle 1926 76.00% 2 Second Base New York Giants (NL) 1907-1920 14 Living - Age 52 40
Hugh Duffy 1918 75.00% 8 Center Field/Outfield Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1888-1901, 1904-1906 17 Living – Age 72 52
Buck Ewing 1902 83.33% 1 Catcher New York Giants (NL) 1880-1897 18 Deceased (1859-1906) 43
Elmer Flick 1916 80.00% 1 Right Field Cleveland Naps (Indians) (AL) 1898-1910 13 Living – Age 62 40
Pud Galvin 1903 80.77% 3 Pitcher Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1875, 1879-1892 15 Deceased (1856-1902) Deceased
Jack Glasscock 1911 84.00% 11 Shortstop Cleveland Blues (NL) 1879-1895 17 Living – Age 81 54
George Gore 1909 77.27% 9 Center Field Chicago White Stockings (Cubs) (NL) 1879-1892 14 Deceased (1857-1933) 52
Heinie Groh 1936 81.25% 5 Third Base Cincinnati Reds (NL) 1912-1927 16 Living - Age 49 47
Billy Hamilton 1906 82.61% 1 Center Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1888-1901 14 Living – Age 72 40
Harry Heilmann 1937 91.18% 1 Right Field Detroit Tigers (AL) 1914, 1916-1930, 1932 17 Living - Age 44 43
Paul Hines 1904 76.00% 4 Center Field Providence Grays (NL) 1872-1891 20 Deceased (1855-1935) 49
Hughie Jennings 1927 75.00% 14 Shortstop Baltimore Orioles (NL) 1891-1903, 1907, 1909, 1912, 1918 17 Deceased (1869-1928) 58
Walter Johnson 1932 100% 1 Pitcher Washington Senators (AL) 1907-1927 21 Living - Age 51 45
Addie Joss 1929 76.00% 15 Pitcher Cleveland Naps (Indians) (AL) 1902-1910 9 Deceased (1880-1911) Deceased
Tim Keefe 1901 75.00% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1880-1893 14 Deceased (1857-1933) 44
Willie Keeler 1916 92.00% 2 Right Field Baltimore Orioles (NL) 1892-1910 19 Deceased (1872-1923) 44
Joe Kelley 1920 84.62% 8 Left Field Baltimore Orioles (NL) 1891-1906, 1908 17 Living – Age 67 49
King Kelly 1902 75.00% 2 Right Field/Catcher Chicago White Stockings (Cubs) (NL) 1878-1893 16 Deceased (1857-1894) Deceased
Napoleon Lajoie 1921 96.77% 1 Second Base Cleveland Naps (Indians) (AL) 1896-1916 21 Living – Age 64 47
Herman Long* 1925 (VC) 75.00% VC Shortstop Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1889-1904 16 Deceased (1866-1909) Deceased
Sherry Magee 1924 86.21% 1 Left Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1904-1919 16 Deceased (1884-1929) 40
Christy Mathewson 1922 93.55% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1900-1916 17 Deceased (1880-1925) 41
Joe McGinnity 1913 91.30% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1899-1908 10 Deceased (1871-1929) 42
Bid McPhee 1905 75.00% 2 Second Base Cincinnati Reds (NL/AA) 1882-1899 18 Living – Age 79 46
Cal McVey*^ 1920 (VC) 83.33% VC Catcher/First Base Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1879 9 Deceased (1849-1926) 71
Tony Mullane 1908 80.00% 8 Pitcher Cincinnati Reds (NL/AA) 1881-1894 14 Living – Age 78 49
Kid Nichols 1911 100% 1 Pitcher Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1890-1901, 1904-1906 15 Living – Age 69 42
Jim O’Rourke 1901 90.00% 1 Left Field/Utility New York Giants (NL) 1872-1893, 1904 23 Deceased (1850-1919) 51
Dickey Pearce*^ 1920 (VC) 100% VC Shortstop Brooklyn Atlantics (NA) 1871-1877 7 Deceased (1836-1908) Deceased
Lip Pike*^ 1920 (VC) 75.00% VC Center Field Baltimore Canaries (NA) 1871-1878, 1881, 1887 10 Deceased (1845-1893) Deceased
Eddie Plank 1922 92.86% 1 Pitcher Philadelphia Athletics (AL) 1901-1917 17 Deceased (1875-1926) 47
Charley Radbourn 1901 95.00% 1 Pitcher Providence Grays (NL) 1881-1891 11 Deceased (1854-1897) Deceased
Hardy Richardson* 1920 (VC) 91.67% VC Second Base/Left Field Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1879-1892 14 Deceased (1855-1931) 65
Amos Rusie 1906 78.26% 1 Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1889-1895, 1897-1898, 1901 10 Living – Age 67 35
Jimmy Ryan* 1930 (VC) 86.67% VC Center Field Chicago Colts (Cubs) (NL) 1885-1900, 1902-1903 18 Deceased (1885-1923) Deceased
George Sisler 1935 90.91% 1 First Base St. Louis Browns (AL) 1915-1922, 1924-1930 15 Living - Age 45 42
Al Spalding^ 1915 80.00% 15 Pitcher Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1878 8 Deceased (1850-1915) Deceased
Tris Speaker 1933 100% 1 Center Field Cleveland Indians (AL) 1907-1928 22 Living - Age 50 45
Joe Start*^ 1920 (VC) 91.67% VC First Base Providence Grays (NL) 1871-1886 16 Deceased (1842-1927) 78
Harry Stovey 1907 75.00% 7 Left Field/First Base Philadelphia Athletics (AA) 1880-1893 14 Deceased (1856-1937) 51
Ezra Sutton* 1920 (VC) 83.33% VC Third Base Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1871-1888 18 Deceased (1850-1907) Deceased
Sam Thompson 1907 79.17% 5 Right Field Philadelphia Phillies (NL) 1885-1898, 1906 15 Deceased (1860-1922) 47
George Van Haltren 1918 75.00% 11 Center Field New York Giants (NL) 1887-1903 17 Living – Age 72 52
Rube Waddell 1915 84.00% 1 Pitcher Philadelphia Athletics (AL) 1897, 1899-1910 13 Deceased (1876-1914) Deceased
Honus Wagner 1922 92.86% 1 Shortstop Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) 1897-1917 21 Living – Age 64 48
Bobby Wallace 1925 75.00% 3 Shortstop St. Louis Browns (AL) 1894-1918 25 Living - Age 65 52
Ed Walsh 1922 89.29% 1 Pitcher Chicago White Sox (AL) 1904-1917 14 Living – Age 57 41
John Ward 1907 75.00% 7 Shortstop/Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1878-1894 17 Deceased (1860-1925) 47
Mickey Welch* 1920 (VC) 75.00% VC Pitcher New York Giants (NL) 1880-1892 13 Living – Age 79 61
Zack Wheat 1932 87.50% 1 Left Field Brooklyn Robins (Dodgers) (NL) 1909-1927 19 Living - Age 50 44
Deacon White^ 1904 76.00% 4 Catcher/Third Base Buffalo Bisons (NL) 1871-1890 20 Living – Age 91 57
Vic Willis 1919 77.78% 5 Pitcher Boston Beaneaters (Braves) (NL) 1898-1910 13 Living – Age 62 43
George Wright^ 1907 75.00% 7 Shortstop Boston Red Stockings (NA) 1871-1882 12 Deceased (1847-1937) 60
Cy Young 1916 100% 1 Pitcher Boston Americans (Red Sox) (AL) 1890-1911 22 Living – Age 71 49

* = Elected by Veterans Committee
^ = Played Significantly Prior to 1871

Players Elected by Primary Position
Catcher (5): Charlie Bennett, Roger Bresnahan, Buck Ewing, Cal McVey, Deacon White
First Base (7): Cap Anson, Jake Beckley, Dan Brouthers, Frank Chance, Roger Connor, George Sisler, Joe Start
Second Base (7): Ross Barnes, Cupid Childs, Eddie Collins, Larry Doyle, Napoleon Lajoie, Bid McPhee, Hardy Richardson
Third Base (4): Frank Baker, Jimmy Collins, Heinie Groh, Ezra Sutton
Shortstop (10): Bill Dahlen, George Davis, Jack Glasscock, Hughie Jennings, Herman Long, Dickey Pearce, Honus Wagner, Bobby Wallace, John Ward, George Wright
Left Field (8): Jesse Burkett, Fred Clarke, Ed Delahanty, Joe Kelley, Sherry Magee, Jim O'Rourke, Harry Stovey, Zack Wheat
Center Field (11): Pete Browning, Max Carey, Ty Cobb, Hugh Duffy, George Gore, Billy Hamilton, Paul Hines, Lip Pike, Jimmy Ryan, Tris Speaker, George Van Haltren
Right Field (6): Sam Crawford, King Kelly, Elmer Flick, Harry Heilmann, Willie Keeler, Sam Thompson
Pitcher (22): Pete Alexander, Mordecai Brown, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Stan Coveleski, Pud Galvin, Walter Johnson, Addie Joss, Tim Keefe, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Tony Mullane, Kid Nichols, Eddie Plank, Charley Radbourn, Amos Rusie, Al Spalding, Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh, Mickey Welch, Vic Willis, Cy Young

Players Elected by Year
1901 (5): Dan Brouthers, John Clarkson, Tim Keefe, Jim O’Rourke, Charley Radbourn
1902 (4): Cap Anson, Roger Connor, Buck Ewing, King Kelly
1903 (1): Pud Galvin
1904 (2): Paul Hines, Deacon White
1905 (1): Bid McPhee
1906 (2): Billy Hamilton, Amos Rusie
1907 (5): Charlie Bennett, Harry Stovey, Sam Thompson, John Ward, George Wright
1908 (2): Ed Delahanty, Tony Mullane
1909 (3): Pete Browning, Bob Caruthers, George Gore
1910 (1): Jesse Burkett
1911 (3): Ross Barnes, Jack Glasscock, Kid Nichols
1912 (0):
1913 (2): Jimmy Collins, Joe McGinnity
1914 (1): George Davis
1915 (2): Al Spalding, Rube Waddell
1916 (4): Bill Dahlen, Elmer Flick, Willie Keeler, Cy Young
1917 (2): Jake Beckley, Fred Clarke
1918 (2): Hugh Duffy, George Van Haltren
1919 (1): Vic Willis
1920 (2): Cupid Childs, Joe Kelley
- 1920 VC (7): Cal McVey, Dickey Pearce, Lip Pike, Hardy Richardson, Joe Start, Ezra Sutton, Mickey Welch
1921 (3): Mordecai Brown, Napoleon Lajoie, Christy Mathewson
1922 (4): Sam Crawford, Eddie Plank, Honus Wagner, Ed Walsh
1923 (0):
1924 (1): Sherry Magee
1925 (2): Roger Bresnahan, Bobby Wallace
- 1925 VC (1): Herman Long
1926 (1): Larry Doyle
1927 (2): Frank Baker, Hughie Jennings
1928 (0):
1929 (1): Addie Joss
1930 (0):
- 1930 VC (1): Jimmy Ryan
1931 (0):
1932 (3): Frank Chance, Walter Johnson, Zack Wheat
1933 (2): Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker
1934 (2): Max Carey, Stan Coveleski
1935 (3): Pete Alexander, Eddie Collins, George Sisler
- 1935 VC (0):
1936 (1): Heinie Groh
1937 (1): Harry Heilmann

Players Elected by Primary Decade
1870s (9): Ross Barnes, Cal McVey, Dickey Pearce, Lip Pike, Al Spalding, Joe Start, Ezra Sutton, Deacon White, George Wright
1880s (21): Cap Anson, Charlie Bennett, Dan Brouthers, Pete Browning, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Roger Conner, Buck Ewing, Pud Galvin, Jack Glasscock, George Gore, Paul Hines, Tim Keefe, King Kelly, Tony Mullane, Jim O’Rourke, Charley Radbourn, Hardy Richardson, Harry Stovey, John Ward, Mickey Welch
1890s (17): Jake Beckley, Jesse Burkett, Cupid Childs, Bill Dahlen, George Davis, Ed Delahanty, Hugh Duffy, Billy Hamilton, Hughie Jennings, Joe Kelley, Herman Long, Bid McPhee, Kid Nichols, Jimmy Ryan, Amos Rusie, Sam Thompson, George Van Haltren
1900s (19): Roger Bresnahan, Mordecai Brown, Frank Chance, Fred Clarke, Jimmy Collins, Sam Crawford, Elmer Flick, Addie Joss, Willie Keeler, Napoleon Lajoie, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell, Honus Wagner, Bobby Wallace, Ed Walsh, Vic Willis, Cy Young
1910s (12): Pete Alexander, Frank Baker , Max Carey, Ty Cobb, Eddie Collins, Larry Doyle, Heinie Groh, Walter Johnson, Sherry Magee, Tris Speaker, Zack Wheat
1920s (3): Stan Coveleski, Harry Heilmann, George Sisler

Players Elected by Primary Organization
Baltimore Canaries (NA) (1): Lip Pike
Baltimore Orioles (NL) (3): Hughie Jennings, Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley
Boston Braves (fka Beaneaters) (NL) (6): John Clarkson, Hugh Duffy, Herman Long, Kid Nichols, Ezra Sutton, Vic Willis
Boston Red Sox (fka Americans) (AL) (2): Jimmy Collins, Cy Young
Boston Red Stockings (NA) (4): Ross Barnes, Cal McVey, Al Spalding, George Wright
Brooklyn Atlantics (NA) (1): Dickey Pearce
Brooklyn Dodgers (fka Robins) (1): Zack Wheat
Buffalo Bisons (NL) (4): Dan Brouthers, Pud Galvin, Hardy Richardson, Deacon White
Chicago Cubs (fka White Stockings, Colts) (NL) (7): Cap Anson, Mordecai Brown, Frank Chance, Bill Dahlen, George Gore, King Kelly, Jimmy Ryan
Chicago White Sox (AL) (2): Eddie Collins, Ed Walsh
Cincinnati Reds (NL, AA) (3): Heinie Groh, Bid McPhee, Tony Mullane
Cleveland Blues (NL) (1): Jack Glasscock
Cleveland Indians (fka Naps) (AL) (5): Stan Coveleski, Elmer Flick, Addie Joss, Napoleon Lajoie, Tris Speaker
Cleveland Spiders (NL) (2): Jesse Burkett, Cupid Childs
Detroit Tigers (AL) (3): Ty Cobb, Sam Crawford, Harry Heilmann
Detroit Wolverines (NL) (1): Charlie Bennett
Louisville Colonels (NL, AA) (1): Pete Browning
New York Giants (NL) (13): Roger Bresnahan, Roger Connor, George Davis, Larry Doyle, Buck Ewing, Tim Keefe, Christy Mathewson, Joe McGinnity, Jim O’Rourke, Amos Rusie, George Van Haltren, John Ward, Mickey Welch
Philadelphia Athletics (AL) (3): Frank Baker, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell
Philadelphia Athletics (AA) (1): Harry Stovey
Philadelphia Phillies (NL) (5): Pete Alexander, Ed Delahanty, Billy Hamilton, Sherry Magee, Sam Thompson
Pittsburgh Pirates (NL) (4): Jake Beckley, Max Carey, Fred Clarke, Honus Wagner
Providence Grays (NL) (3): Paul Hines, Charley Radbourn, Joe Start
St. Louis Browns (AL) (2): George Sisler, Bobby Wallace
St. Louis Cardinals (fka Browns) (NL, AA) (1): Bob Caruthers
Washington Senators (AL) (1): Walter Johnson

Miscellaneous Information
- Highest Regular Election Percentage: Cap Anson, Walter Johnson, Kid Nichols, Tris Speaker, Cy Young – 100%
- Number of 1st Ballot Electees: 38
- Number of Electees with At Least 90% Support: 25
- Average Regular Election Percentage: 84.97%
- Most Years on Ballot Before Election: Cupid Childs, Addie Joss, Al Spalding – 15
- Number of Players Elected After 10 Years on Ballot: 8
- Average Wait Before Election: 3.89 Years
- Number of Players Lasting 15 Years on Ballot without Election: 24
- Number of Players Elected by Veterans Committee: 9
- Average Electees per Veterans Committee Election: 2.25
- Highest Percentage Among Players Not Elected: Tommy Leach - 66.67% (1933)
- Highest Average Percentage Among Players Not Elected: Tommy Leach - 49.60%
- Most Regular Election Electees in One Year: 5 (1901, 1907)
- Fewest Regular Election Electees in One Year: 0 (1912, 1923, 1928, 1930, 1931)
- Average Regular Election Electees Per Year: 1.97
- Largest Ballot: 78 Players (1901)
- Largest Post-1915 Ballot: 47 Players (1932)
- Smallest Ballot: 23 Players (1918)
- Most Votes Cast: 34 (1937)
- Fewest Votes Cast: 20 (1901)
- Average Votes Cast: 26.17
- Team With Most Players Elected: New York Giants - 13
- Team With Second Most Players Elected: Chicago Cubs - 7
- Electee with Longest Post-1871 Career: Cap Anson – 27 Seasons
- Electee with Shortest Post-1871 Career: Dickey Pearce – 8 Seasons
- Average Post-1871 Career Length of Electees: 16.18 Seasons
- Youngest Elected Player: Amos Rusie – Age 35
- Oldest Elected Player: Joe Start – 78
- Average Age at Election: 47.88
- Number of Posthumously Elected Players: 15
- Number of Living Hall of Famers: 41
- Oldest Living Hall of Famer: Deacon White - 91
- Deceased in Past Year:

Number of Ballots Submitted in Past Elections
1901: 20
1902: 24
1903: 26
1904: 25
1905: 24
1906: 23
1907: 24
1908: 25
1909: 22
1910: 25
1911: 25
1912: 23
1913: 23
1914: 26
1915: 25
1916: 25
1917: 25
1918: 24
1919: 27
1920: 26
1921: 31
1922: 28
1923: 25
1924: 29
1925: 24
1926: 25
1927: 28
1928: 27
1929: 25
1930: 25
1931: 32
1932: 24
1933: 29
1934: 28
1935: 33
1936: 32
1937: 34

Links to Past Elections (10)
1901 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=77167)
1902 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=77464)
1903 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=77797)
1904 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=78133)
1905 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=78417)
1906 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=78737)
1907 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=79020)
1908 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=79393)
1909 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=79738)
1910 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80134)
1911 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=80597)
1912 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81008)
1913 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81477)
1914 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81965)
1915 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=82365)
1916 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=82681)
1917 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=82940)
1918 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83241)
1919 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83422)
1920 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83665), 1920 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83697)
1921 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=83924)
1922 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84099)
1923 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84257)
1924 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84423)
1925 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84552), 1925 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84636)
1926 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84727)
1927 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=84871)
1928 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85029)
1929 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85206)
1930 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85358), 1930 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85439)
1931 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85681)
1932 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85850)
1933 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86054)
1934 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86291)
1935 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86514), 1935 Players VC (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86576)
1936 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1408310#post1408310)
1937 (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=87002)

SavoyBG

02-07-2009, 08:51 AM

Faber, Maranville and Mays.

I'm close on Rixey, but not quite.

Domenic

02-07-2009, 08:57 AM

Cooper
Cravath
Maranville
Veach

Senor Octobre

02-07-2009, 09:14 AM

Bancroft
Cooper
Cravath
Evers
Faber
Hooper
Maranville
Mays
Schalk
Schang
Sewell
Shocker
Vaughn
Veach
Williams

Largest ballot yet for me. And it is a large one, even for me.
Could be convinced to add Konetchy, Quinn, Rixey and Rommel eventually.

jalbright

02-07-2009, 09:19 AM

Wilbur Cooper
Red Faber
Rabbit Maranville
Carl Mays
Eppa Rixey
Joe Sewell

jjpm74

02-07-2009, 10:04 AM

Wilbur Cooper
Red Faber
George Kelly
Rabbit Maranville
Eppa Rixey
Ray Schalk
Wally Schang
Joe Sewell
Urban Shocker
Bobby Veach

vtbub

02-07-2009, 10:08 AM

Maranville
Mays
Shocker

DoubleX

02-07-2009, 11:35 AM

Faber, Maranville and Mays.

I'm close on Rixey, but not quite.

I'm curious to hear your take on Faber and Rixey. Faber had a great three year peak, but not much after that, just a lot of years. Rixey's peak wasn't as high as Faber's, but he had more years at a higher level. This is what I posted in the last election about them:

Both are long-career guys, but don't really jump out as much as most of the pitchers we've elected. Faber pitched nearly 4100 innings and had an ERA+ of 119. Not bad. He had three years where he was an excellent pitcher and put up 91 Win Shares in those three years, an average of 31. However, he only had one other 20 Win Share season and finished with just 292, not a particularly impressive total for a 20 year player (Wilbur Cooper in comparison had 9 20+ Win Share seasons, all consecutive). He also wasn't particularly durable with just four top 10 IP finishes, though three were first or second place. It appears he had a three year stretch as a great pitcher and a long time as merely a decent pitcher. Faber's case may come down to what stands out more - the 119 ERA+ in nearly 4100 IP, or an emphasis on Win Shares.

As for Rixey, he has a 115 ERA+ in about 4500 innings. Again, not bad. He didn't quite have the peak of Faber, but he played a higher level for longer. For example, Faber had five top 10 ERA+ finishes (twice leading the league), while Rixey had seven (three times finishing second). Rixey was also more durable, 10 times in the top 10 in IP. And while he did not have any 30 Win Share seasons (Faber had 2), he had 8 with at least 20. So his pattern seems to be a good pitcher for a long time, but never really great.

Before then, I had planned on voting for both Faber and Rixey, but then I reassessed Faber to be just under the line. I'm really close though, so any positive discussion for Faber would probably sway me.

DoubleX

02-07-2009, 11:39 AM

bambambaseball

02-07-2009, 11:50 AM

Bambam, could you please justify the vote for Lew Fonseca? Every election it seems there are one or two very questionable players you vote for, such as Joe Dugan a couple of elections ago. It's votes like these that are making me seriously reconsider that one year toll to the 5% rule and instead just enact a 5% rule from the first year of eligibility.

6 time .300 hitter, smart player, contact hitter, great defensive player, first player to use film to discover flaws and exploit them. A pioneer of the game.

What difference does it make if I vote for a borderline guy once in a while? Look at the real HOF elections and see how many times questionable guys get votes.

Domenic

02-07-2009, 12:05 PM

A brief argument for Wilbur Cooper:
From 1917 to 1924, Cooper ranked in the top five pitchers in Win Shares in the NL each season.
Cooper led NL pitchers in Win Shares in 1922, placed second in 1921 and 1924, and third in 1920.
NL All-Star (in Win Shares) in 1917, 1918, 1920, 1921, 1922, and 1924.
NL All-Star (by STATS) in 1918, 1920, 1921, and 1922 with a Cy Young for 1922.
Compared to Hall of Famer Stan Covaleski, Wilbur Cooper had more career Win Shares - 266 to 245.

SavoyBG

02-07-2009, 01:38 PM

I'm curious to hear your take on Faber and Rixey. Faber had a great three year peak, but not much after that, just a lot of years. Rixey's peak wasn't as high as Faber's, but he had more years at a higher level. This is what I posted in the last election about them:

Before then, I had planned on voting for both Faber and Rixey, but then I reassessed Faber to be just under the line. I'm really close though, so any positive discussion for Faber would probably sway me.

Here's the short version, from what I posted already in last year's thread:

There's not all that many pitchers who are over 300 win shares. Rixey only 4 twenty win seasons and a career win% of just .515. Not a great peak either. Best win share season was just 26.

Faber had a stronger peak (had 37 win shares one season) and a more consistent career. Also had two ERA titles and two ERA+ titles. Rixey never led in anything that significant, although he did lead in wins one year.

BEST THREE SEASONS
Faber - 93
Rixey - 76

BEST 5 CONSECUTIVE SEASONS
Faber - 118
Rixey - 118

And XX, despite the fact that we know that win% has a lot to do with run support, I don't think it should be discounted entirely. I think it has to mean SOMETHING, even if it means a lot less than some people would think. For me to induct a long career pitcher with a .515 career winning percentage I'm gonna have to be sure that he was great on the mound, had bad teams behind him almost all the time, AND was very unlucky. A career ERA+ of 116 does not make me think of "great." Rixey is not very high on the "wins above team" list either. Clark Griffith, who we have not yet inducted, is # 9 on that list at 45.6 wins above team.

Faber has an ERA+ 3 points higher in almost as many career innings as Rixey, AND a clearly better top end peak.

I think you may be bending over backwards some to ignore the .515 winning percentage entirely. I think it has to at least be a small consideration.

leecemark

02-07-2009, 01:42 PM

--Awfully surprised to see Rabbit Maranville at 100% after 9 votes. I think he is a fine candiate and voted for him myself. We've seen better guys struggle to make it though and I didn't think he was likley to be a first ballot selection.
--Returnees to my ballot are Cooper, Schalk and Schang. Rixey made it on his first year, while Faber did not. They are pretty close though and I could be swayed to Faber's side if his supporters cared tp make a good case for him. Sewell also made my ballot.

Sockeye

02-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Here is my "would be" ballot

I'd support

1. Gavvy Cravath: 151 OPS+, .758 OWP, 46 black Ink, .309 EQA, quite possibly the best hitter in baseball three straight years from 1913-15. Short peak due to late start. His production overcomes his lack of longevity.

2. George J Burns: 33 black ink, 165 gray ink, 108.4 WARP1, 290 win shares, led the league in walks and runs scored 5 times each. Valuable player on three world series teams. Good glove.

3. Red Faber: 119 ERA+, 22 black ink, 161 gray ink, 37.0 HOF standards, 89.0 HOF Monitor, 9 stuff, 97.3 WARP1, 88.7 WARP3, 289 Win shares. Best pitcher in the A.L. in 1921-22, late start to his career prevented him from winning 300 games but he still pitched effectively til age 44.

close misses

4. Harry Hooper
5. Ed Konetchy
6. Cy Williams
7. Eppa Rixey
8. Carl Mays
9. Jack Quinn

STLCards2

02-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Maranville
Sewell
Rixey
Faber

I am more of a career value guy than peak, but regardless-

With 4,000 plus innings and ERA+ 115-119 (while playing on teams that offered very little defensive support), both men produced far and above the established career value marks set for HOFers.

To be consistant, I hope those who leave off Faber and Rixey also exclude Lyons and Wynn.

Senor Octobre

02-07-2009, 03:51 PM

Here is my "would be" ballot

I'd support

1. Gavvy Cravath
2. George J Burns
3. Red Faber

What exactly is your case for George Burns?

philkid3

02-07-2009, 03:58 PM

Rabbit Maranville
Joe Sewell
Bobby Veach
Ross Youngs

I was convinced last year to add Youngs to my ballot. I orginally thought this would be maybe a one person ballot, but decided to go ahead and take Sewell in the end, and I had overlooked Maranville being on. I'm happy to have four people to vote for, though I also think all four are near the back end of my Hall of Fame.

Cowtipper

02-07-2009, 04:25 PM

Blue
Burns
Cravath
Konetchy
Mays
Pratt
Veach

AstrosFan

02-07-2009, 04:35 PM

Red Faber
Eppa Rixey

Rixey is very underrated, both by fans and by himself.

"They put me in? They must really be scraping the bottom of the barrel." - Eppa Rixey. Or however the quote goes.

Sockeye

02-07-2009, 06:21 PM

What exactly is your case for George Burns?

A speedy leadoff hitter with some pop. Top eight in stolen bases 9 times, top ten in home runs 3 times. Three best OPS+ seasons 147, 146, 142. Very good OPS+ numbers for a leadoff hitter. Knew how to play the game and was a valuable member of 3 world series teams. Solid glove and good range. Led the league in walks and runs scored 5 times each. 40+ steals 5 times, 30+ steals 6 times. John McGraw thought very highly of him calling him "One of the most valuable ball players that ever wore the uniform of the Giants"

henrich

02-07-2009, 07:39 PM

C schang
SS Sewell
SS Maranville
3B Gardner
LF Meusel
RF Hooper
pitchers
Rixey
Quinn
Mays
Marquard
Faber

Freakshow

02-07-2009, 09:58 PM

Heilmann was elected. Konetchy, Pratt, J. Wood and Youngs were dropped. They were replaced by newbies Faber, Maranville, Quinn, Rixey and Sewell.

Bancroft
GJ Burns
W. Cooper
Cravath
Evers
Faber
Hooper
Maranville
Mays
Quinn
Rixey
Schang
Sewell
Shocker
Veach

Brad Harris

02-07-2009, 11:35 PM

Cooper
Cravath
Evers
Faber
Konetchy
Maranville
Mays
Pratt
Rixey
Schang
Sewell
Shocker
Veach
Williams
Youngs

DoubleX

02-08-2009, 07:02 AM

6 time .300 hitter, smart player, contact hitter, great defensive player, first player to use film to discover flaws and exploit them. A pioneer of the game.

What difference does it make if I vote for a borderline guy once in a while? Look at the real HOF elections and see how many times questionable guys get votes.

I would say he was a 4 time .300 hitter, given that he only had 4 seasons where he even had 400 at bats, or even 300 at bats for that matter. Also, hitting .300 wasn't particularly difficult feat during Fonseca's career as the adjusted league average was .294. Hitting .300 when the average player is hitting .294 isn't that impressive.

Also, there's a big difference between a borderline player and Fonseca. Fonseca is a far, far cry from the border and his pioneering use of film doesn't overcome what was a very short career (just 3700 PA) with mostly average production. I would call Fonseca a head-scratching player, rather than borderline. Same with Joe Dugan and a number of other players you have voted for through the elections.

You are right though that in the real elections, lots of head-scratching players get votes for whatever reason. The difference between here and there though is that 1 vote is enough to carry a player over in his first year and will cause them to automatically appear on the master list for the VC elections, both of which I believe add some value to their careers that is probably undeserved. You're of course permitted to vote for whomever you want on the ballot, but I am strongly reconsidered the one year delay of the 5% rule in order to clean up the ballot a little bit.

mwiggins

02-08-2009, 08:55 AM

Wally Schang
Ross Youngs
Joe Sewell

jjpm74

02-08-2009, 09:25 AM

You are right though that in the real elections, lots of head-scratching players get votes for whatever reason. The difference between here and there though is that 1 vote is enough to carry a player over in his first year and will cause them to automatically appear on the master list for the VC elections, both of which I believe add some value to their careers that is probably undeserved. You're of course permitted to vote for whomever you want on the ballot, but I am strongly reconsidered the one year delay of the 5% rule in order to clean up the ballot a little bit.

Why are you adding players to the VC master list who managed to get 1 vote in 1 election? I doubt anyone on the committee would add any 2 ballot guy to their preliminary ballot. Why not make it 4 years or 5 years on the regular ballot as the minimum for VC eligibility whether or not you do away with the 1st year pass rule?

DoubleX

02-08-2009, 09:44 AM

Why are you adding players to the VC master list who managed to get 1 vote in 1 election? I doubt anyone on the committee would add any 2 ballot guy to their preliminary ballot. Why not make it 4 years or 5 years on the regular ballot as the minimum for VC eligibility whether or not you do away with the 1st year pass rule?

Mostly because it's administratively easy to do. Technically, every player who was eligible in the regular election is eligible for the VC election. By including players who survived at least a year on the regular ballot, I can make the master list very inclusive but also give it a sensible cutoff point so I don't have to list everyone. At some point I might reconsider and be more discerning when putting together the Master List, mostly just to make it easier for voters to peruse the list, but for right now, I'm fine with being more inclusive. It's unlikely, but I wouldn't want a player to not get a vote simply because I didn't include him on the list.

jjpm74

02-09-2009, 06:36 AM

Looks like this project now has its own subforum!:clapping

Interesting class for next year:

Sparky Adams
Ownie Carroll
Jumbo Elliott
Johnny Frederick
Milt Gaston
George Grantham
Burleigh Grimes
Harvey Hendrick
Don Hurst
Joe Judge
Ray Kolp
Marty McManus
Eddie Moore
Lefty O'Doul
Charlie O'Leary
Herb Pennock
Cy Perkins
Sam Rice
Muddy Ruel
Joe Shaute
Riggs Stephenson
Ed Wells
Hack Wilson

Some of the highlights are Joe Judge who was one of the best 1st basemen of his generation, Burleigh Grimes who enjoyed a lengthy productive pitching career, Lefty O'Doul whose career was on the short side but was very productive, Sam Rice who compiled some amazing career totals, Hack Wilson who has the best chance of election out of this group, though he may struggle at first, Herb Pennock who had a long career, Riggs Stephenson who's OPS+ and BA are among the best of all time. It looks like we'll be repopulating the ballot with a lot of holdovers during the next election.

gman5431

02-09-2009, 06:42 AM

Faber and Rixey

G Man

leecemark

02-09-2009, 07:13 AM

Some of the highlights are Joe Judge who was one of the best 1st basemen of his generation, Burleigh Grimes who enjoyed a lengthy productive pitching career, Lefty O'Doul whose career was on the short side but was very productive, Sam Rice who compiled some amazing career totals, Hack Wilson who has the best chance of election out of this group, though he may struggle at first, Herb Pennock who had a long career, Riggs Stephenson who's OPS+ and BA are among the best of all time. It looks like we'll be repopulating the ballot with a lot of holdovers during the next election.

--I suspect Judge will be a less interesting candidate for most voters than you think. Grimes will likley make my ballot first time out, although I'd listen to arguments tot he contrary. O'Doul's career was way too short to have a shot at my ballot (even moreso for Stepenson). Sam Rice did compile so nice career numbers, but was never really a great player. I guess the Beckley fans will be Rice fans as well, but that doesn't include me. Do you really think Hack Wilson is a stronger candidate than Grimes? I suspect Hack will make it, but only if he has some committed supporter who are willing to stick up for him over a multi-year campaign.
Edit - missed Pennock in my comment. Something that I will be repeating on my ballot.

jjpm74

02-09-2009, 08:39 AM

I don't expect Joe Judge to end up with much support, but I'd be surprised if Lefty O'Doul and Riggs Stephenson don't get some support given the fact that Mike Donlin hung around for 15 years on the ballot with a shorter career and comparable peak.

PVNICK

02-09-2009, 09:08 AM

Cooper
Evers
Mays
Shocker
Vaughn

Sockeye

02-09-2009, 10:20 AM

Domenic

02-09-2009, 11:28 AM

Maranville really took a downturn, here. Wasn't he at 100% twelve or thirteen votes in?

You're of course permitted to vote for whomever you want on the ballot, but I am strongly reconsidered the one year delay of the 5% rule in order to clean up the ballot a little bit.

I think this would be a fantastic move, to be honest.

Brooklyn

02-09-2009, 11:43 AM

Joe Sewell

KCGHOST

02-09-2009, 11:56 AM

Lot of good players on this list but none that fire you up.

Faber
Rixey
Sewell
Shocker

dgarza

02-09-2009, 08:01 PM

Dave Bancroft
George Burns
Gavvy Cravath
Johnny Evers
Red Faber
Harry Hooper
George Kelly
Rabbit Maranville
Rube Marquard
Carl Mays
Eppa Rixey
Joe Sewell
Bobby Veach
Ross Youngs
Cy Williams

1. Bobby Veach
2. Carl Mays
3. Gavvy Cravath
4. Cy Williams
5. George J Burns
6. Red Faber
7. Joe Sewell
8. Ross Youngs
9. Eppa Rixey
10. Dave Bancroft
11. Rube Marquard
12. Rabbit Maranville
13. Harry Hooper
14. Johnny Evers
15. George Kelly

philkid3

02-09-2009, 08:06 PM

jjpm74

02-10-2009, 05:26 AM

I think this would be a fantastic move, to be honest.

I agree. The 1st year pass made sense when this project was relatively new and we were overwhelmed with reasonable candidates. Now that we're almost 40 years into the project, it's safe to say we have a good idea of who belongs and who doesn't. A 1 vote candidate has no chance to seeing a 3rd ballot and is just cluttering up the ballot. IMO it's time to go to the 5% rule regardless of number of years on the ballot.

Brad Harris

02-10-2009, 06:22 AM

I agree. The 1st year pass made sense when this project was relatively new and we were overwhelmed with reasonable candidates. Now that we're almost 40 years into the project, it's safe to say we have a good idea of who belongs and who doesn't. A 1 vote candidate has no chance to seeing a 3rd ballot and is just cluttering up the ballot. IMO it's time to go to the 5% rule regardless of number of years on the ballot.
http://www.dvdtown.com/images/displayimage.php?id=4897
I didn't get a hurumph outta that guy!

DoubleX

02-11-2009, 02:37 PM

Looks like this project now has its own subforum!:clapping

Just to let everyone know, I am gradually moving threads for previous elections to the subforum, including both VC elections. It might be a few days until I get all the threads over there.

Also, ideally, I hope to eventually have a master thread there summarizing everything. It will be similar to the guide I post at the start of each election but perhaps even more detailed.

Phish

02-12-2009, 07:06 PM

Rixey. Maranville, and Youngs.

I decided to leave off Faber and Sewell on this ballot. There really isn't too much HoF talent on this ballot, but if I had to vote, here's who I would put in

Paul Wendt

02-12-2009, 07:35 PM

Just to let everyone know, I am gradually moving threads for previous elections to the subforum, including both VC elections. It might be a few days until I get all the threads over there.

Also, ideally, I hope to eventually have a master thread there summarizing everything. It will be similar to the guide I post at the start of each election but perhaps even more detailed.
I second the clapter.:clapping

Specifically
(a) it will be good to have one index that covers the multiple kinds of Progressive elections and also the preliminary discussion threads, if we had them, for each kind of election. (How should the Progressive Veterans Committee work, if we have one at all. Note, I don't recall whether it was a separate thread.)
(b) it will be good to have the separate archive for "Best of Baseball" threads at the same time. I have been confusing them recently. At least it will soon be easy to revisit them quickly and reliably.

AG2004

02-13-2009, 09:30 PM

Before then, I had planned on voting for both Faber and Rixey, but then I reassessed Faber to be just under the line. I'm really close though, so any positive discussion for Faber would probably sway me.

Faber did lead major league pitchers in win shares in both 1921 and 1922, so that would help his case.

We also have to consider what happened in 1918. Faber had seven win shares that season in 80.7 IP. However, it was wartime, and Faber went into the Navy for most of the year. The Navy made him recreation director for the Great Lakes Naval Base, where he also pitched for the base's team.

Based on what Faber did before he was in the Navy, I'd give him credit for another All-Star-type season in 1918. I would also add some career win shares to his record.

Ordinarily, military service does not reduce a pitcher's career totals, and I don't give compensation to pitchers. Although he may lose some time in the service, the time away from the mound helps his arm, and the rest extends his career. The extra years from this extension makes up for the earlier time lost. However, as noted above, the Navy decided to have Faber pitch, and therefore Faber didn't spend any extra time away from the mound. Therefore, I make an exception for Faber, and he gets the credit.

[In a related decision, I also give military compensation for pitchers whose careers end early due to medical conditions unrelated to pitching. Since their career would have ended at that point whether they had been in the service or not, military service did reduce their career totals, and I make an adjustment.]

AG2004

02-14-2009, 07:07 AM

My 1938 ballot:

George J. Burns
Wilbur Cooper
Urban Faber
Rabbit Maranville
Carl Mays
Eppa Rixey

Sewell is close to the standards we've set at 2B/SS/3B, but he falls just short of meeting them. Maranville, once you give him credit for the time he spent in the military in 1918, is a good match for Bobby Wallace, and perhaps a bit better.

DoubleX

02-15-2009, 12:02 PM

Even though we didn't elect anyone this year, I think this was a very interesting election. First, it's been a while since we've had a number of holdovers within striking distance and worth discussing. Now we have four in Faaber, Maranville, Rixey, and Sewell.

Second, Joe Wood's steady downward spiral came to an end as he received zero votes and will be dropped from the ballot. In his first year he received over 35% support, so it's been a pretty big fall.

Lastly, I have indeed decided that next year will be the last year where we'll suspend the 5% rule for first year players. Starting in 1940, all players must receive at least 5% to holdover. The ballot is becoming too cluttered with marginal holdovers as it is, so I think we can do without the likes of Lew Fonseca, Joe Dugan, and Jesse Barnes carrying over.