Need help please - family mystery

[mamatoad]

This is may sound like something out of a mystery novel in progress but it's not. It's a real family mystery: was Father Dear lying about something important or not?

It hinges on what ballgames were played on August 16, 1944 and when.

I've found that Lee (?) Yost made his debut in the Senator's game of that date. But what time did the game start? And just for my own fyi, who was the opposing team and where did they play?

Were there any other ball games played that day? Who? What time? Where?

Am hoping, really hoping, that someone here can provide me with the answers to these questions.

Thank you soooooo much! mamatoad

[dgarza]

RetroSheet should answer most or all your concerns :

http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1944/VWS101944.htm

http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1944/08161944.htm

http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1944/TWS101944.htm

[parlo]

August 16, 1944, the Senators lost a home game to the White Sox by a score of 7-2.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/WSH/1944_sched.shtml

[parlo]

Eddie Yost made his debut that day at the age of 17.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/y/yosted01.shtml

[Paul Wendt]

Is Eddie Yost "father dear"?

This is may sound like something out of a mystery novel in progress but it's not. It's a real family mystery: was Father Dear lying about something important or not?

It hinges on what ballgames were played on August 16, 1944 and when.

I've found that Lee (?) Yost made his debut in the Senator's game of that date. But what time did the game start?
Probably you should consult Washington newspapers for the 16th and 17th. On the 16th seek the planned starting time of the game. (Seek the starting times for other August weekdays, if necessary.) On the 17th check whether anything unusual happened at the ballpark that day!

The Washington Post is widely available online. Freely distributed? I don't know. At least there is a good chance you can read it at your local public library. Look for other Washington papers too. If this is related to WWII-related events at Griffith Stadium, read every newspaper you can find. Fortunately the Chicago Tribune is also widely available online.

[Yankwood]

I was in the stands that day and I believe the first pitch was thrown at 1:07.

[mamatoad]

Sadly, no, Lee Yost wasn't "Father Dear", LOL!

Thanks for the great tip about the Washington papers. Wasn't sure if that was a home game or not so papers seemed relatively unusable but knowing it was a home game -- very cool! I can certainly check the Washington Post for the 16th & 17th. Knowing where to look is easily half of any research project.

And to he who was in the stands and remembers the first ptich at 1:07 p.m.? You are my memory hero! I don't think I could remember something that detailed that accurately the next day much less 64 years down the road. Congraulations on the memory and thanks for the time!

Am going to use the links others provided to check the other games played that day.

Thank you all so much for your help -- with what you've provided me, I feel I'm on the road to solving this little mystery.

mamatoad

[Ubiquitous]

I believe it was an attempt at humor.

[mamatoad]

Oh that sly dog -- and I missed the whole thing -- and that's not usually like me -- very clever though!

[BSmile]

Oh that sly dog -- and I missed the whole thing -- and that's not usually like me -- very clever though!

Although, being 1944...it must have surely been a day game.

[EdTarbusz]

According to the Sporting News it was a night game. It probably started around 8:30 PM.

[mamatoad]

Ed -- thank you! Night game/about 8:30 p.m. just exactly what I needed to know. And Sporting News is a new reference source for me. Mil gracias!

[EdTarbusz]

A Washington paper from that day may have the exact starting time.

[Yankwood]

According to the Sporting News it was a night game. It probably started around 8:30 PM.
Night games never started that late back then. This is a TV phenomenon...

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Night games never started that late back then. This is a TV phenomenon...

Does seem a bit late but that was the scheduled time start (8:30) of that game that took place August 16, 1944.

[Ubiquitous]

I believe that during the war some teams played night games so that the workers could attend the game.

[EdTarbusz]

Night games never started that late back then. This is a TV phenomenon...

Night games started later in that era than they do today. They started when it was dark outside. When Detroit started playing night games in 1948, they contemplated starting their games at 9:30 to compensate for daylight savings time.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I believe that during the war some teams played night games so that the workers could attend the game.

That was one of the reasons. Roosevelt's " Green Light Letter" to Judge landis. Main theme, play the game even during the war. In the letter, as you say, Roosevelt asked that night games be extended so day shifts could attend.

[Paul Wendt]

For some time games were scheduled to be played under the lights or not. I suppose that that was the meaning of "Night" and "Day" for a while. A night game would begin under artificial light. (That was true of game one in a Twi-Night doubleheader, as I recall from the 1970s.) A day game would be called for darkness in a ballpark equipped with lights, even perhaps game one of a Day-Night, not Twi-Night doubleheader. (Day-Night may be a term I am inventing now. I don't recall it.)


Night games started later in that era than they do today. They started when it was dark outside. When Detroit started playing night games in 1948, they contemplated starting their games at 9:30 to compensate for daylight savings time.
For what it's worth, by my reading in local newspapers 100+ years ago, common starting times for weekday games were 3:00 to 4:30 pm. Some Sunday or holiday morning games were called at 10:30 am.

In baseball coverage there was occasional comment on starting times, why too early or too late. In that 3:00-4:30 range some issues were how many people will miss how much of the game if they travel to the ballpark right after work? How many innings will we certainly or probably play before dark? In effect some "day" games were twilight games, played while natural conditions were similar to those in game one of some "Twi-Night" doubleheaders late in the century.

The world was full of variety, even before there were so many of us.

Bottom line.
If research is serious, whether important or otherwise, seek a source from the specific place and time. For ballgame conditions that means daily local newspaper. --especially before the broadcast era, I suppose, because broadcasts gradually made start times relevant to outsiders.

(In 1887 or 1901, I commonly find an advertisement in the newspaper, not necessarily in the "sporting section" if any; commonly in a block of advertisements concerning various entertainment & recreation.)

[EdTarbusz]

For some time games were scheduled to be played under the lights or not. I suppose that that was the meaning of "Night" and "Day" for a while. A night game would begin under artificial light. (That was true of game one in a Twi-Night doubleheader, as I recall from the 1970s.) A day game would be called for darkness in a ballpark equipped with lights, even perhaps game one of a Day-Night, not Twi-Night doubleheader. (Day-Night may be a term I am inventing now. I don't recall it.)


.)

In the 1940s, night games were games that were literally that, games played at night. They didn't start until it was completely dark outside. I don't know if this was befcause they thought that ywilight games would be too dangerous for hitters or if they didn't want to turn the lights on before it was completely dark out. I doun't know why they went to earlier strt times. Maybe it was for TV considerations. Maybe it was because the games were getting longer.

[BSmile]

Well this has led into a bunch of very interesting info that I didn't know. Good stuff...

[Paul Wendt]

I don't know why they went to earlier strt times. Maybe it was for TV considerations. Maybe it was because the games were getting longer.
Longer games, plausibly. But everything is starting earlier: bridge club games, feature films, happy hours. Recently, sometime since 1990, the Red Sox have scheduled many April "night" games at 6:05 rather than 7:05.

I suppose that one important reason is common workday schedules outside baseball. "Working 9 to 5": when and where? In the 19th century those were bank clerks traveling to the ballpark at 3:00. Did banks open "early" so that other businesses could get money before opening? Meanwhile factory workers got out at 6:00, so they were not in the picture for any of those 3:00 to 4:30 starting times. Something like that; that is a caricature based on truth; I don't know enough to do better.

I wonder, did WWII workers get off late?

Where ten hours or eight hours is the limit by law, or by collective bargaining, of course a relevant question remains whether eight hours is 8-5 with lunch hour, or 9-6 with lunch hour, etc. That would make a big difference for a big-city sports team especially during the age when people in the seats were vital rather than merely important (whatever they are today).

[SHOELESSJOE3]

In the 1940s, night games were games that were literally that, games played at night. They didn't start until it was completely dark outside. I don't know if this was befcause they thought that ywilight games would be too dangerous for hitters or if they didn't want to turn the lights on before it was completely dark out. I doun't know why they went to earlier strt times. Maybe it was for TV considerations. Maybe it was because the games were getting longer.

That could have been, that would be a very late start. From western NY and at times in the summer, it's not dark until 9:00 PM. Of course in the 1940s game were not as long on average as they are today.

[EdTarbusz]

In 1948, Cleveland Indians night games started at 8:30. I didn't find any references from the Indians beat writers that night games started any earlier in other AL cities.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Longer games, plausibly. But everything is starting earlier: bridge club games, feature films, happy hours. Recently, sometime since 1990, the Red Sox have scheduled many April "night" games at 6:05 rather than 7:05.

I suppose that one important reason is common workday schedules outside baseball. "Working 9 to 5": when and where? In the 19th century those were bank clerks traveling to the ballpark at 3:00. Did banks open "early" so that other businesses could get money before opening? Meanwhile factory workers got out at 6:00, so they were not in the picture for any of those 3:00 to 4:30 starting times. Something like that; that is a caricature based on truth; I don't know enough to do better.

I wonder, did WWII workers get off late?
Where ten hours or eight hours is the limit by law, or by collective bargaining, of course a relevant question remains whether eight hours is 8-5 with lunch hour, or 9-6 with lunch hour, etc. That would make a big difference for a big-city sports team especially during the age when people in the seats were vital rather than merely important (whatever they are today).

I would think some did put in long days and get out late, some overtime.
Many defense plants of course were working 24 hours 7 days a week. Many were on a swing shift. One week 7AM-3PM then 3 to 11 and then that third shift 11PM to 7AM. Tough shift but it would guarantee in some weeks you would be free some days and some nights.
Don't know if during war time the work hours limit by law was in effect. For sure the USA found out what the British found out in regard to long hours in defense plants, at times production would suffer when working long, long hours, so they had to cut back on the hours.

[vtbub]

Recently, sometime since 1990, the Red Sox have scheduled many April "night" games at 6:05 rather than 7:05.


It tends to get cold in Boston in April, so starting those games at 6 allows there to be some daylight and warmth at the start. For years, the Sox would play only day games during the week except for Friday nights at 6.

[mamatoad]

Wiow - y'all are posting some really really interesting info! Thank you!

I've been googling and searching Washington Post archives (online) and Sporting News archives (ditto) and I think my problem is that my search terms are inaccurate.

I now kow that the Yost-debut game began at 8:30 p.m. That's huge for my purposes. But there were six other games played that day and I'm trying to find the start times for them. That's where I'm failing: searching by game -- Detroit/Boston for example -- and "start time" provides no info; searching for "start times+August 16, 1944+baseball" provides no info; "1944 baseball season game start times" nada and so on -- have tried variations on those, using different placements (i.e., 1944 baseball season+start times) nada.

Where am I making my mistake? What other terms/words/phrases should I be using to find this info? Hope my question makes sense -- no coffee yet, LOL!

Thank you to all of you -- mamatoad

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Wiow - y'all are posting some really really interesting info! Thank you!

I've been googling and searching Washington Post archives (online) and Sporting News archives (ditto) and I think my problem is that my search terms are inaccurate.

I now kow that the Yost-debut game began at 8:30 p.m. That's huge for my purposes. But there were six other games played that day and I'm trying to find the start times for them. That's where I'm failing: searching by game -- Detroit/Boston for example -- and "start time" provides no info; searching for "start times+August 16, 1944+baseball" provides no info; "1944 baseball season game start times" nada and so on -- have tried variations on those, using different placements (i.e., 1944 baseball season+start times) nada.

Where am I making my mistake? What other terms/words/phrases should I be using to find this info? Hope my question makes sense -- no coffee yet, LOL!

Thank you to all of you -- mamatoad

No excuse for going so long with no coffee.;) Do you access to Proquest, you can search newspaper archives, some of the bigger newspapers in the country, going way back.
Even with Proquest sports pages do not always give starting times of games.

This is the hard way but if you do have Proquest you can go to the page of the newspaper where radio broadcast times are listed, I would think almost all MLB teams broadcast their team games. Of course you would have to know if the team was home or away. Then you have to make sure the time listed is not a pre-game show start time. This is really difficult, looking for that page, radio broadcast time, assuming you have Proquest.

We have some sharp minds here, sure some one will come up with an easier way to find game start times.