HOF Mistakes Round 4 (PLEASE READ FIRST POST)

[AstrosFan]

We all have our own definition of what makes a Hall of Famer. And many of us are simply appalled at what we see as terrible selections. I would like to start voting on the mistakes of the Hall of Fame.


Please Read These Rules Before Making Your Selections:


1. This is players only, which means players are to be judged on their playing career first. A player may receive a boost from a voter for other activities (managing, scouting, etc.), but those are only secondary considerations. But of course, do not judge a player solely by his numbers.

2. There are now 229 players in the Hall. I plan on putting a ballot of 25-26 each round, plus a none of the above option. You may vote for 0-15 players. If you think a player is close, but doesn't belong, and you have room on your ballot, check him as a mistake. A player needs to get 75+% of the vote to be dubbed a mistake. Since there will be much disagreement on who is a mistake, there is no need to limit yourself to the Rube Marquards and George Kellys of the Hall. Again, DO NOT JUST VOTE FOR THE BAD PICKS. VOTE FOR ANYONE YOU PERSONALLY WOULD NOT ELECT TO THE HALL.

3. Please do not be shy. In participating in this project, no one is necessarily advocating the removal of anyone from the Hall. It is just a way to see who we would identify as mistakes made by the various election committees.

4. All players are eligible. Do your best when it comes to players you may have a hard time judging, like Negro Leaguers and 19th century players. You don't have to read an encyclopedia, but at least some research should help.

5. If a player receives less than 5% of the vote as a mistake, he becomes permanently ineligible. No one wants to belabor the point that Willie Mays is not a Hall of Fame mistake.

6. A player must have crossed the 50% threshold by his 10th try, else he is dropped, unless he has been gaining noticeable momentum. What constitutes noticeable will be up to me, though I intend to do my best to define it in a way that will appease as many as I can. Think Jim Rice or Bert Blyleven in the real HOF voting.

7. At some point, we will reach a place where we just aren't going to identify any more mistakes. At that point, the project will shut down, and I will list the players alphabetically, and include some statistics for everyone's benefit.

8. Please be careful when voting. I do not have the power to edit ballots, and I do not wish to bother the mods constantly to ask them if they can change things. Because of this, ballots will not be changed, except in the case of honest mistakes. Please contact a mod about this if it happens, but please be very careful when voting, so the moderators do not have to be bothered more than necessary.

9. Please be respectful of other people's choices. Disagreement is natural, but calling those with a different viewpoint narrowminded, ignorant, etc. is unnecessary, and more likely than not untrue.

10. This is probably obvious, but the players are listed alphabetically.

11. Please post your ballot in the thread.

12. Voting is open for one week.


Have fun.

[AstrosFan]

Round 1 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85732) results:

First Last Votes Possible Pct Mistake? 5%?
Hank Aaron 0 31 0 N N
Pete Alexander 0 31 0 N N
Cap Anson 1 31 0.03 N N
Luis Aparicio 11 31 0.35 N Y
Luke Appling 1 31 0.03 N N
Richie Ashburn 3 31 0.1 N Y
Earl Averill 3 31 0.1 N Y
Frank Baker 2 31 0.06 N Y
Dave Bancroft 23 31 0.74 N Y
Ernie Banks 0 31 0 N N
Jake Beckley 14 31 0.45 N Y
Cool Papa Bell 0 31 0 N N
Johnny Bench 0 31 0 N N
Chief Bender 18 31 0.58 N Y
Yogi Berra 0 31 0 N N
Wade Boggs 0 31 0 N N
Jim Bottomley 19 31 0.61 N Y
Lou Boudreau 4 31 0.13 N Y
Roger Bresnahan 5 31 0.16 N Y
George Brett 0 31 0 N N
Lou Brock 0 31 0 N N
Dan Brouthers 2 31 0.06 N Y
Mordecai Brown 0 31 0 N N
Ray Brown 6 31 0.19 N Y
Willard Brown 7 31 0.23 N Y
Jim Bunning 4 31 0.13 N Y

And for Round 2 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=85918):

First Last Votes Possible Pct Mistake? 5%?
Luis Aparicio 6 22 0.27 N Y
Richie Ashburn 3 22 0.14 N Y
Earl Averill 2 22 0.09 N Y
Frank Baker 1 22 0.05 N N
Dave Bancroft 18 22 0.82 Y Y
Jake Beckley 7 22 0.32 N Y
Chief Bender 9 22 0.41 N Y
Jim Bottomley 15 22 0.68 N Y
Lou Boudreau 4 22 0.18 N Y
Roger Bresnahan 7 22 0.32 N Y
Dan Brouthers 0 22 0 N N
Ray Brown 1 22 0.05 N N
Willard Brown 2 22 0.09 N Y
Jim Bunning 2 22 0.09 N Y
Jesse Burkett 3 22 0.14 N Y
Roy Campanella 2 22 0.09 N Y
Rod Carew 0 22 0 N N
Max Carey 1 22 0.05 N N
Steve Carlton 0 22 0 N N
Gary Carter 0 22 0 N N
Orlando Cepeda 5 22 0.23 N Y
Frank Chance 4 22 0.18 N Y
Oscar Charleston 0 22 0 N N
Jack Chesbro 17 22 0.77 Y Y
Fred Clarke 0 22 0 N N

And Round 3 (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=86180):

First Last Votes Possible Pct Mistake? 5%?
Luis Aparicio 9 28 0.32 N Y
Richie Ashburn 3 28 0.11 N Y
Earl Averill 2 28 0.07 N Y
Jake Beckley 6 28 0.21 N Y
Chief Bender 14 28 0.5 N Y
Jim Bottomley 19 28 0.68 N Y
Lou Boudreau 7 28 0.25 N Y
Roger Bresnahan 11 28 0.39 N Y
Willard Brown 6 28 0.21 N Y
Jim Bunning 1 28 0.04 N N
Jesse Burkett 1 28 0.04 N N
Roy Campanella 1 28 0.04 N N
Orlando Cepeda 3 28 0.11 N Y
Frank Chance 5 28 0.18 N Y
John Clarkson 0 28 0.00 N N
Roberto Clemente 0 28 0.00 N N
Ty Cobb 0 28 0.00 N N
Mickey Cochrane 0 28 0.00 N N
Eddie Collins 0 28 0.00 N N
Jimmy Collins 3 28 0.11 N Y
Earle Combs 18 28 0.64 N Y
Roger Connor 1 28 0.04 N N
Andy Cooper 7 28 0.25 N Y
Stan Coveleski 3 28 0.11 N Y
Sam Crawford 0 28 0.00 N N

[AstrosFan]

Since no one was elected last round, our mistake list remains at two:

Dave Bancroft
Jack Chesbro

[jalbright]

A link to the last election would be helpful.

[AstrosFan]

Good idea, Jim. I'm on it.

[AstrosFan]

You should be able view the past results now.

[jalbright]

Beckley
Bender
Bottomley
Combs
Candy Cummings
Cuyler

Red: not voted for this time by mistake, but will be next election.

[AstrosFan]

I would like to hear from Tampa Bay Giants on why he voted for Bill Dickey.

[Dogdaze]

I see some voting for Willard Brown as a Hall of Fame mistake, but I have to disagree, I believe Brown is HOF worthy.

Willard Brown was a star in the Negro leagues and was one of their top five all time best hitters. Some might look at the stint in the majors he had with the St. Louis Browns and see the crappy stats he produced and figure he wasn’t very good. But I did a little research on that which may show why he did so poorly. I’ll share that on the next post. First here’s his stats and info I found from his Negro League and Puerto Rican Winter league career;

Willard Browns career stats from SABR’s research for the Hall of fame study:
BA .351 G 475 AB 1806 R 373 H 634 D 111 T 47 HR 67 RBI 287 BB 109 SB 83 SLG .576

Willard Brown’s Puerto Rican Winter league career statistics:
AB 1940 R 378 H 679 D 135 T 27 HR 101 RBI 473 BA .350 SLG .604

Compared by Bill James to Frank Robinson, James also rated him as the MVP in the NeL in 1937 and 1946. Brown was elected to Baseball Think Factories Hall of Merit. Willard was also an eight time NeL all star selection.

Willard Brown has been described as a powerful very talented five-tool player, who not only hit for power but high batting average as well. However he was also considered to have a lackadaisical attitude and a reputation of not hustling at times. Though Buck O'Neil disagreed, his quotes on that below.

Brown led the Negro American League in home runs seven times. Only Josh Gibson won more home run titles in the Negro Leagues. Gibson, impressed by the number of occasions on which the two sluggers found themselves in head-to-head home run derbies nicknamed Brown “Home Run”. Willard started his career as a shortstop, then later switched to center field and also played left and right field. Negro league historian James Riley describes Willards outfield defense as “an excellent gloveman with a great arm.”

Willard Browns baseball career was interrupted while he spent two years in the army during WWII as a member of the Quartermaster Corps, transporting ammunition to the front and guarding prisoners. But Willard did play in a few exhibition games with Leon Day in the Army's European Baseball Tournament against some Major League players. Brown hit two home runs Ewell Blackwell to help Leon Day earn the victory over an Army team of major leaguers.

He won two triple crowns while playing in the Puerto Rican winter league which included some MLB players. The fans in Puerto Rico nicknamed Willard "Ese Hombre", which translates as "The Man". Brown holds the Puerto Rican winter league record of most homes runs in a season with 27 in 60 games in 1948. Second place belongs to Reggie Jackson with 20 home runs in 1971.

Tommy Lasorda, who was one of Brown's teammates in the Puerto Rican Winter league, and said of Brown;

"one of the greatest hitters I ever saw." "He hit just about every pitcher like he owned him,"

Former Negro league player Quincy Troupe said of Brown;

"He could hit the long ball, but he was so doggone triflin'! He would walk to the outfield sometimes causing the pitcher to wait to throw the first pitch. He could hit the ball to right field, center field, left field. He was a great hitter."

Buck O'Neil said of Brown;

"Willard was so talented, he didn't look as if he was hustling. Willard Brown stole bases standing up; he didn't slide because he didn't have to."

"Willard had so much ability, he made it look easy" said Buck O'Neil, "People might think he was loafing, but he was a great natural athlete who never looked like he was in a hurry unless he had to be."

[Dogdaze]

Willard Brown's 21 games in MLB with the St. Louis Browns.

In July 1947 the St. Louis Browns who were the worse team in the majors purchased the contracts of Henry Thompson and Willard Brown from the Negro League Kansas City Monarchs hoping to improve their team and capitalize on the publicity as well as attract black fans to their games. Brown was 33 at the time and lasted 21 games hitting only .179.

Why did Willard brown hit so poorly if he was so good in the Negro Leagues?

I believe because he didn’t want to play for the St. Louis Browns to begin with, was forced to take a pay cut, was treated badly by his white teammates and manager and wasn’t supplied the bat size he was used to using. All this contributed to Willard not having the best attitude to try very hard to succeed.

From the book “Baseball's Pivotal Era, 1945-1951” By William Marshall page 147

“Brown took a pay cut to play with the Browns, was not excited about the move, only the strong encouragement from Monarchs manager Buck O’Neil convinced him that he needed to give the major leagues a try.”

Brown and Thompson found conditions in St. Louis less then desirable. The team was obviously not pleased to have them. Indeed manager Muddy Ruel was not apprised of their coming and according to Dewitt, (Browns General Manager Bill DeWitt.) was strongly opposed to their acquisition. The two men faced other forms of adversity. Brown was forced to use a light pitchers bat, because the Browns refused to acquire new bats for him.

Browns skipper, Muddy Ruel, in his show of support for the newcomers, would only mumble, “I’m answering no questions,” when asked about the “Negro situation”.

Bill James wrote in his Historical Baseball Abstract book;

“The Browns were trying to cash in on the publicity generated by Jackie Robinson’s breakthrough in Brooklyn, but neither the front off nor the St. Louis players actually wanted him to succeed. That was just one of his problems. Another problem was that Brown didn’t have any bats that he was comfortable with. He liked to use a heavy bat, but he had left his bats behind when he reported to the team, because he’d been told the team would furnish bats. When he got to St Louis, everybody was using a lighter bat, and he just couldn’t adjust to it. Jeff Heath used the heaviest bat on the team, and Brown eventually found a bat that had been Heath’s but the knob had broken off on it. Brown taped the knob back on but the umpire wouldn’t let him use a bat with tape over the end, so he had to use the bat with a broken knob.”

Brown recalled in an interview with writer Jack Etkin quoted in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch,

"After I come in, Heath was going to see that I didn't use it no more ... He took the bat and hit it on the dugout, tore it all to pieces in splinters in the dugout. Now, that's something.... I wasn't used to that kind of baseball."

James Riley once discussed with Brown his brief tenure in St. Louis and got a sense of the frustration that Brown had felt.

"One time he told me he got the manager's sign to bunt," Riley said. "Willard ignored it and hit a home run. But he got chewed out for it. Major League managers wouldn't say, 'Well, he hit a home run, so it's OK.' Willard was a guy who did his own thing."

Dismayed by such treatment, Brown played poorly. His frustration showed in his attitude.

From the book “Baseball's Great Experiment” By Jules Tygiel page 221

“From the start the St. Louis experiment seemed destined for failure. A local newspaper described Brown players as “none too happy over the addition of two Negro players” Alabama born outfielder Paul Lehner reportedly delivered an ultimatum to club officials, threatening to quit the team if Brown and Thompson were retained. Lehner appeared late for the game the following day, triggering speculation that he had jumped the team. One sportswriter contended, “The gloom that pervaded the dressing room and bench of the Browns was thick enough to make one gasp for air” and that “tempers were taut.” When Thompson and Brown joined the club their teammates greeted them with silence. The two blacks warmed up together; no one else offered to throw to them.

For the next month Brown and Thompson led an unhappy existence as major leaguers. Their teammates ignored them as much as possible. “If Brown wasn’t around and I asked another player to warm up with me, he’d just shake his head,” Thompson later revealed. When he would walk into the dressing room to autograph souvenir baseballs, said Thompson, “three guys – always the same three – would get up and one of them would say, “when you finish, well come back.”

Sportswriter Tommy Holmes wrote,

“The St. Louis Browns signed a couple of colored ballplayers as they started out on a road trip through the East. Along about the time they got to back to St. Louis, a city with more southern then northern tradition, they released them. There was always some doubt whether these two players – Thompson and Brown – received a genuine trial. Most people believe they didn’t."

[KCGHOST]

Aparicio
Bender
Bottomley
Combs
Cuyler

[AstrosFan]

Aparicio
Beckley
Bender
Bottomley
Bresnahan
Combs
Cummings
Cuyler

I do not see a HOF case for Candy Cummings, but if anyone's interested, I would like to see the reasons why he belongs.

[jalbright]

I do not see a HOF case for Candy Cummings, but if anyone's interested, I would like to see the reasons why he belongs.

Actually, I should have had Cummings on my list, but he's not going to be elected or get off the ballot this time, so it doesn't matter much. I will note in my post my errant omission of him so it doesn't happen again. That said, the best case I can make for him is as a contributor because he's credited with inventing/popularizing the curve.

[AstrosFan]

Actually, I should have had Cummings on my list, but he's not going to be elected or get off the ballot this time, so it doesn't matter much. I will note in my post my errant omission of him so it doesn't happen again. That said, the best case I can make for him is as a contributor because he's credited with inventing/popularizing the curve.

It is important to remember that it is Cummings's playing credentials that need to make the best case for him. Any credit he receives for inventing/popularizing the curve should be fairly minimal, and should only enable Cummings as being worthy if he is considered to be very close by his playing career. See Rule 1.

[AstrosFan]

Bumping this up.

[AstrosFan]

Poll will be closing in a few hours, so last chance to vote.

[AstrosFan]

Since inauguration day is tomorrow, I'll hold off on putting the next ballot up for a few days.

[AstrosFan]

First Last Votes Possible Pct Mistake? 5%?
Luis Aparicio 6 25 0.24 N Y
Richie Ashburn 3 25 0.12 N Y
Earl Averill 3 25 0.12 N Y
Jake Beckley 5 25 0.20 N Y
Chief Bender 13 25 0.52 N Y
Jim Bottomley 17 25 0.68 N Y
Lou Boudreau 1 25 0.04 N N
Roger Bresnahan 6 25 0.24 N Y
Willard Brown 4 25 0.16 N Y
Orlando Cepeda 0 25 0.00 N N
Frank Chance 3 25 0.12 N Y
Jimmy Collins 1 25 0.04 N N
Earle Combs 17 25 0.68 N Y
Andy Cooper 4 25 0.16 N Y
Stan Coveleski 2 25 0.08 N Y
Joe Cronin 1 25 0.04 N N
Candy Cummings 9 25 0.36 N Y
Kiki Cuyler 12 25 0.48 N Y
Ray Dandridge 2 25 0.08 N Y
George Davis 0 25 0.00 N N
Leon Day 2 25 0.08 N Y
Dizzy Dean 2 25 0.08 N Y
Ed Delahanty 0 25 0.00 N N
Bill Dickey 1 25 0.04 N N
Martin Dihigo 0 25 0.00 N N

No one elected. I'll have the new ballot up in a few minutes.