Interesting Trio Of First -Time Eligibles For HOF in 2010

[philliesfiend55]

An excellent trio of of recent players will enter their first year of eligilbility for the writers' election (BBWAA) for the Baseball Hall Of Fame next year. (All played their final MLB season in 2004 and become eligible in 2010.
All have some strong qualifications and yet some weak areas as well.

Edgar Martinez could become just the second player in the Hall Of Fame who played more games ar Designated Hitter than any single other position.
He hit .313 lifetime with over 300 home runs, all for the Seatle Mariners. He was a good third baseman before injuries limited him to the DH role, but he and Hall Of Famer, Paul Molitor are probably a toss up for the greatest Designated Hitter in history. Will his excellent batting average and good power add up to be enough to get him elected?

Andres Galarraga hit 399 home runs and hit .288 lifetime. He was nicknamed "The Big Cat" for the graceful way he fielded and manuvered around the first base bag.. He courageously returned to the majors after two bouts with Cancer. Possibly since power standards have grown since his prime, Galarraga could be overlooked. Just short of 400 home runs, without an exceptional batting average may not be enough for election these days.

Finally among the chief new candidates there is Roberto Alomar. He was thought to be without peer as a defensive second baaseman. His career offensive totals boast 2724 hits, 210 home runs, 474 stolen bases and an even .300 batting average. Alomar was guilty , however of an infamous "Spitting Incident" during the 1996 A.L. Playoffs, where he spit at an umpire. Will writers be able to forgive him for that one slip, a very public episode of "Unsportsmanslike Conduct".

All three have their supporters for baseball's highest honor, as well as their deteractors. Their progress in Hall Of Fame vote tallys will be interesting to follow, beginning next year (2010).

-philliesfiend55-

[STLCards2]

An excellent trio of of recent players will enter their first year of eligilbility for the writers' election (BBWAA) for the Baseball Hall Of Fame next year. (All played their final MLB season in 2004 and become eligible in 2010.
All have some strong qualifications and yet some weak areas as well.

Edgar Martinez could become just the second player in the Hall Of Fame who played more games ar Designated Hitter than any single other position.
He hit .313 lifetime with over 300 home runs, all for the Seatle Mariners. He was a good third baseman before injuries limited him to the DH role, but he and Hall Of Famer, Paul Molitor are probably a toss up for the greatest Designated Hitter in history. Will his excellent batting average and good power add up to be enough to get him elected?

Andres Galarraga hit 399 home runs and hit .288 lifetime. He was nicknamed "The Big Cat" for the graceful way he fielded and manuvered around the first base bag.. He courageously returned to the majors after two bouts with Cancer. Possibly since power standards have grown since his prime, Galarraga could be overlooked. Just short of 400 home runs, without an exceptional batting average may not be enough for election these days.

Finally among the chief new candidates there is Roberto Alomar. He was thought to be without peer as a defensive second baaseman. His career offensive totals boast 2724 hits, 210 home runs, 474 stolen bases and an even .300 batting average. Alomar was guilty , however of an infamous "Spitting Incident" during the 1996 A.L. Playoffs, where he spit at an umpire. Will writers be able to forgive him for that one slip, a very public episode of "Unsportsmanslike Conduct".

All three have their supporters for baseball's highest honor, as well as their deteractors. Their progress in Hall Of Fame vote tallys will be interesting to follow, beginning next year (2010).

-philliesfiend55-

I am afraid Martinez will not be able to overcome the DH issue right away - I think he will make it, but it might be awhile.

Alomar is a slam-dunk HOFer. If voters can overlook Juan Marichal's incident (not to mention some drug users, cheaters, wife-beaters, rasicists etc.) I am sure they will overlook a guy (with a clean record before and after the spitting incident) having one moment of intensity in which he did something not nice. It would be a crime if alomar ws not inducted.

Galaraga will not get close to close.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I am afraid Martinez will not be able to overcome the DH issue right away - I think he will make it, but it might be awhile.

Alomar is a slam-dunk HOFer. If voters can overlook Juan Marichal's incident (not to mention some drug users, cheaters, wife-beaters, rasicists etc.) I am sure they will overlook a guy (with a clean record before and after the spitting incident) having one moment of intensity in which he did something not nice. It would be a crime if alomar ws not inducted.

Galaraga will not get close to close.

Another thing Alomar has working against him is the flakiness that the BBWAA displays in evaluating 2nd basemen.

One thing Alomar has working for him is that he finished his career at an even .300. Another is the huge number of Gold Gloves he won; Alomar was the premire defensive 2nd baseman of his generation. As the dust settles, I rank Alomar ahead of both Jeff Kent AND Craig Biggio, all things considered.

There would be no precedent of a middle infielder of Alomar's quality and career length being denied the HOF. I think he'll make it on the 1st ballot, but I'm a big cautious on this prediction. Sandberg's failure to make it on the 1st ballot is still stupefying, and Alomar didn't finish his career strong, so that's working against him a bit. Still, his plaque is being minted as we speak, and he will be elected to the HOF by the writers, almost certainly within the first 5 years of eligibility.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

I am afraid Martinez will not be able to overcome the DH issue right away - I think he will make it, but it might be awhile.

Alomar is a slam-dunk HOFer. If voters can overlook Juan Marichal's incident (not to mention some drug users, cheaters, wife-beaters, rasicists etc.) I am sure they will overlook a guy (with a clean record before and after the spitting incident) having one moment of intensity in which he did something not nice. It would be a crime if alomar ws not inducted.

Galaraga will not get close to close.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Alomar would easily be the most grievous ommission ever if he isn't inducted into the HOF. The man was a premier player for numerous years, and an awesome defender for at least 12. I believe he's the greatest second baseman since Joe Morgan (over Kent and Biggio).

I doubt Galarraga will muster 15% of the vote, nor should he. His road OPS numbers all miles away from his Rockies home stats.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I don't support Cat's candidacy, but he's a better choice than Mattingly, for those who care about Donnie Baseball.

Galarraga had a higher career OWP than Mattingly in a longer career. His numbers are inflated by Coors, to be sure, but they are flat-out impressive.

Gallaraga's OWPs for 1996-98 were .714, .723 and .751. Those Coors stats in a neutral park would have generated OWPs of well over .800; OWP neutralizes the performance. Gallaraga wasn't a .700 career OWP man; if he were, he would be a stronger candidate. His raw numbers deserve adjustment, but at least 3 of his Colorado seasons, plus 1988 in Montreal and 1998 in Atlanta (tough hitters' parks) were the kind of seasons HOFers put up. Cat deserves more respect then he gets because of Coors, even if he falls short of the HOF.

[willshad]

None of these guys will make it on the first ballot. Alomar is the only one who will make it, and it will take a few years. Edgar was good, but really what makes him stand out among his contemporaries? The only thing I can think of is the fact that he was a DH..and that's a negative thing. Oh, and he has lower counting number than most...another negative thing. He was a good hitter, but certainly no better than Albert Belle, and Belle has fielding value, and he didnt come close to being voted in. I dont think any of the shorter career guys from that era will get in...Martinez, Belle, Juan Gone, Clark, Walker, Giles, etc.

Martinez may have been the best hitter of all of them, but the rest all are more qualified due to fielding value, awards, etc.

As for Alomar, I think he tends to come across as a disappointment. At one point he seemed a lock for 3000 hits , maybe even 4000. In contrast, look at Craig Biggio, he seemed like nothing until he started to show some longevity, along with a late peak. I think it is always better to hang on and peak late, rather than retire young, and peak early, at least for hall of fame voting. I dont know maybe it's just the Mets fan in me that views him as a disappointment. :-P

[STLCards2]

None of these guys will make it on the first ballot. Alomar is the only one who will make it, and it will take a few years. Edgar was good, but really what makes him stand out among his contemporaries? The only thing I can think of is the fact that he was a DH..and that's a negative thing. Oh, and he has lower counting number than most...another negative thing. He was a good hitter, but certainly no better than Albert Belle, and Belle has fielding value, and he didnt come close to being voted in. I dont think any of the shorter career guys from that era will get in...Martinez, Belle, Juan Gone, Clark, Walker, Giles, etc.

Martinez may have been the best hitter of all of them, but the rest all are more qualified due to fielding value, awards, etc.

You are probably right that Martinez may not get in - but a few points...

-Since when is 18 years and nearly 7,500 PA a "shorter career guy?"
-The voters won't factor it in, but Edgar did play almost 600 games at 3B - he wasn't that bad either.
- Belle may have had more homeruns, but Martinez had a much better OB% than Belle most of the time. In fact, Martinez leads Belle in OPS+ 147-143 with an extra 1,500 PAs to boot. As far as defense... a solid 3B for 600 games and a DH vs. a poor LF? Don't see much difference there.

[willshad]

You are probably right that Martinez may not get in - but a few points...

-Since when is 18 years and nearly 8,000 PA a "shorter career guy?"
-The voters won't factor it in, but Edgar did play almost 600 games at 3B - he wasn't that bad either.
- Belle may have had more homeruns, but Martinez had a much better OB% and a better OPS+ than Belle most of the time. More longevity as well. As far as defense... a solid 3B for 600 games and a DH vs. a poor LF? Don't see much difference there.

I think that spells out Edgar's problem...he played 18 years and only ended up with 309 home runs and 1261 RBI. I know it was due to injuries, and that from age 32 on he was as good as any player ever probably. But that doesnt change the fact that he didnt do much up until age 32 (1992 notwithstanding). Basically all of his hall of fame work was done as a DH.

[STLCards2]

I think that spells out Edgar's problem...he played 18 years and only ended up with 309 home runs and 1261 RBI. I know it was due to injuries, and that from age 32 on he was as good as any player ever probably. But that doesnt change the fact that he didnt do much up until age 32 (1992 notwithstanding).

you are correct that his lack of counting stats (and the DH situation) might be wht keeps him from the BBWAA voting him in, but since we know better that HR and RBI only tell a small part of the story, we can "vote" correctly!:D

[Fuzzy Bear]

I think that spells out Edgar's problem...he played 18 years and only ended up with 309 home runs and 1261 RBI. I know it was due to injuries, and that from age 32 on he was as good as any player ever probably. But that doesnt change the fact that he didnt do much up until age 32 (1992 notwithstanding). Basically all of his hall of fame work was done as a DH.

Here's the HOF monitor for Edgar:

Black Ink: Batting - 20 (105) (Average HOFer ≈ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 107 (199) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 50.0 (74) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 131.5 (103) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

Here's the HOF monitor for The Big Hurt:

Black Ink: Batting - 21 (98) (Average HOFer ≈ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 200 (39) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 60.4 (30) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 194.0 (44) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

Edgar played 591 games in the field, 1,411 games at DH. Thomas played 971 games at 1B, 1,311 games at DH. Edgar's OWP was .711; Thomas' was .732.

Edgar's ratio of games played at DH to the field would be closer to Thomas' if the Mariners hadn't been stupid by keeping Edgar in the minors and keeping Jim Presley in the lineup long after Edgar was ready, and long after he was better than Presley.

Thomas is a no-questions-asked HOFer; no one questions his DH value. Edgar played games in the field at third base, which has more value. Thomas played 1B, and was a poor 1st baseman.

How far behind Frank Thomas do you have to be to be a HOFer? That's the question voters have to ask in accurately evaluating Edgar Martinez. I've come around to support Edgar's HOF candidacy, and I think he'll eventually get in (although Thomas may have to get in first).

[willshad]

I dont disagree that Edgar and Thomas were similiar in value per at bat (although Im pretty sure the voters won't see it that way), however, as is being discussed in another thread, there are a LOT of hall of fame type hitters from that era. I can think of many players who had hall of fame 'peaks', yet we cannot put them ALL in the hall of fame. How do we separate them? BY their counting stats, fairly or not. There is a HUGE difference between having 309 home runs and 1261 RBI and getting 521 and 1704 RBI. THomas is in rare territory, not many players have accumulated what he has; and yet when you get down to Martinez's totals, the bell curve expands tenfold. It's kind of like comparing Frank Robinson to Dick Allen, or George Foster to Reggie Jackson., or Eddie Murray to Boog Powell.
The question , if one accepts Martinez, is :' why not accept so and so?' Jim Edmonds, Bobby Abreau, Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, Bernie Williams, Will Clark, Scott Rolen, Brian Giles, Larry Walker, Jason Giambi, Todd Helton..and several more. They all had/will have similiar counting stats, were as good (or close to it) at their peak, and had much more fielding value. Yet you cant put all of them in.

[henrich]

Edgar Martinez 9017 15th all-time at 3B (if giving him credit there is okay)
Frank Thomas 13075 4th all-time at 1B

2B
Alomar 12,264 6th-all time
Biggio 11,199 8th all-time
Kent 10,668 9th all-time

All three of the 2B men should get in when they are eligible. I think Kent gets in on his 2nd or 3rd ballot. alomar and Biggio first ballot

Martinez if he gets in would be 13th-15th ballot

Galarraga 10,060 26th all-time at 1B this is not a particularly strong number for 1B in the 90's to the aughts. I think he'll garner the 5% necessary to continue on the ballot for a number of years.

Mattingly 9516 32nd all-time and in my opinion not a hall of fame candidate.

[DoubleX]

You are probably right that Martinez may not get in - but a few points...

-Since when is 18 years and nearly 7,500 PA a "shorter career guy?"

When the vast majority of that career was at DH (though Martinez had 8600+ PA).

I've warmed up to Martinez lately, but the DH is still a big issue for me. Without the DH, I have trouble believing that Martinez's career would have been all that different than someone like Ted Kluszewski. Very good all around hitter, but due to injuries and defensive ineptitude, couldn't stay in the lineup without the DH. I'm not deadset against a DH being inducted, but as with every other position, a positional adjustment for offensive expectations should be made, and since a DH does nothing but hit, the offensive expectations should be higher there than at any other position (including 1B).

[jalbright]

I'm willing to give Edgar a bit of a break and consider him by 1B offensive standards, given that he had 600 games at 3B. To me, he's very borderline by that standard, and it may be a bit generous. It wouldn't upset me if he got in, and it wouldn't seriously erode what should be the bottom level of HOF standards, but I'm not enthusiastic enough to actually support his case, either. If I had a BBWAA ballot, he probably wouldn't be on it.

[Domenic]

Roberto Alomar is a first-ballot Hall of Famer, in my opinion. So long as a player doesn't have a significant history of poor behavior, I am loath to count an incident or two against them. Alomar was, for the most part, a good citizen in the game. Regardless, his high-level of play for a fairly long period of time negates any behavioral issues.

To me, Alomar and Biggio (and possibly Kent) stand head and shoulders above every second baseman of the 1990s and 2000s, with Alomar's head being the highest.

I'm willing to give Edgar a bit of a break and consider him by 1B offensive standards, given that he had 600 games at 3B.

This is exactly how I view Martinez. With that, I also see Martinez as a borderline case. His overall numbers are impressive, he has a terrific reputation as a player and teammate, and he had four or five excellent seasons.

At the same time, he was hurt a great deal, misses most of the 'counting stat markers,' and played in a big offensive era - these factors are a hindrance with the BBWAA. I believe he will be inducted eventually, but I wouldn't be surprised if he never made the cut.

Andres Galarraga's story is good, but he didn't really have any big seasons - even with his time in Colorado. He was certainly a good player, but I don't see him as a Hall of Famer... and I don't think he's terribly close, either.

[Paul Wendt]

interesting trio, yes, Edgar alone makes it interesting

Domenic quoted jalbright and agreed,
This is exactly how I view Martinez. With that, I also see Martinez as a borderline case. His overall numbers are impressive, he has a terrific reputation as a player and teammate, and he had four or five excellent seasons.

At the same time, he was hurt a great deal, misses most of the 'counting stat markers,' and played in a big offensive era - these factors are a hindrance with the BBWAA. I believe he will be inducted eventually, but I wouldn't be surprised if he never made the cut.
Edgar Martinez is the player I would most like to see voted by the living Hall of Fame players, although half of the pleasure I anticipate is based on knowing who voted how --at least, some partly aggregated statistics as total votes by time, league, and pitcher classes.

According to current plan, the players would vote for Edgar about twenty years hence, when their own experience would be concentrated in the 1970s to 20-aughts. I would prefer to collect more pre-1973 opinion: Ted would have voted for Edgar, but would his buddy Bobby?

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

The question , if one accepts Martinez, is :' why not accept so and so?' Jim Edmonds, Bobby Abreau, Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, Bernie Williams, Will Clark, Scott Rolen, Brian Giles, Larry Walker, Jason Giambi, Todd Helton..and several more. They all had/will have similiar counting stats, were as good (or close to it) at their peak, and had much more fielding value. Yet you cant put all of them in.

I am able to pretty easily categorize the HOF candidacy of each of the players you named:

Albert Belle and Larry Walker have my support.

Jim Edmonds, Jason Giambi, and Todd Helton could earn my support by finishing strong.

Bobby Abreu, Scott Rolen, and Brian Giles are unlikely to ever get my support, but they are still active, so I won't totally write them off.

Juan Gonzalez, Bernie Williams, and Will Clark do not have my support.

On to the thread topic: Alomar is a no-brainer to me. He should get in the HOF and I think he will. Obviously, the spitting incident will work against him, but I don't think it will keep him out. Others have done worse things. Another thing that will work against him is the fact that he just kind of faded into obscurity. Biggio got a lot of press for his 3,000th hit and subsequent retirement. Alomar really didn't get much attention at the end of his career. I don't think that will keep him out either though. I support Martinez, but I can understand others not supporting him. I'm not sure if he'll get in or not. If he does, it will take a while. He has excellent rate stats, but his counting numbers leave something to be desired for a HOF candidate at an offensive position. His main problem is that he was well-rounded as a hitter, but didn't stand out in particular at any one aspect of hitting. He didn't hit 40 homers a year, he isn't a .330 career hitter, etc. He did have great OBP skills, but those typically go underappreciated. Galarraga doesn't deserve to get into the HOF and won't. He'll probably hang around on the ballot for a while, but never seriously threaten to get in.

[J W]

We're missing a huge name from this list: Former NL MVP Barry Larkin is also eligible in 2010. Although Galarraga may garner enough votes to stay on the ballot for a few years, it is Larkin that will be talked about along with Martinez and Alomar.

I wonder if any of them will get in first try, but Alomar would be the best bet. I think Larkin will be inducted on his third or fourth try. Martinez will mill around 30% of the vote for a while I think, but as the old voters die and are replaced by writers who grew up in the DH era... Edgar will likely gain popularity.

[philliesfiend55]

I think that posters are underestimating the negative impact to Alomar's candidacy of his "Spitting Incident" in the '96 playoffs. I think that knocked him down from a first ballot Hall Of Famer to a guy who will have to wait four or five years for election.

I could see support for Martinez slowly growing until he gets elected after about eight to ten rejections. The fact that he was a Designated Hitter for the majority of his career is the only reason that he won't get in sooner.

Galarraga definitely would have the qualifications to be elected as a Veterans Committee candidate under the old system that prevailed until 2001. He is as deserving as Richie Ashburn, George Kell, Phil Rizzuto. Nellie Fox,
Bill Mazeroski, Red Schoendienst , Orlando Cepeda, or any of the latter year Veterans Committee electees. That said, unless the Hall Of Fame abandons it's present set-up of living Hall Of Famers doing the voting, that has failed to elect a single player in four attempts, then it's obvious that "The Big Cat" will be a member of The Colorado Rockies Hall Of Fame and a member of
The Latin American Hall Of Fame, but never the one in Cooperstown.

-philliesfiend55-

[Domenic]

We're missing a huge name from this list: Former NL MVP Barry Larkin is also eligible in 2010.

I believe Larkin is a first-ballot Hall of Famer, but I see him middling around for a few years before he gets in.

[stuffymcinnis]

Alomar is a lock and deservedly so.

I do not think Edgar will get in, but I think we can all agree the man could hit a baseball.

Galaragga has no shot.

Two more interesting names from the 2010 class to me are Barry Larkin and Fred McGriff. I'd vote for Larkin. McGriff I'm reluctant but I thought he was generally considered a good candidate.

[Freakshow]

Fred McGriff is eligible next year, too, it's a really strong crop.

Players with 1500+ games newly eligible for next BBWAA vote
Cnt Player OPS+ RC OBP SLG LstY G From To
+----+-----------------+----+----+-----+-----+----+----+----+----+
1 Edgar Martinez 147 1631 .418 .515 2004 2055 1987 2004
2 Fred McGriff 134 1704 .377 .509 2004 2460 1986 2004
3 Ellis Burks 126 1350 .363 .510 2004 2000 1987 2004
4 Ray Lankford 122 1045 .364 .477 2004 1701 1990 2004
5 Andres Galarraga 118 1394 .347 .499 2004 2257 1985 2004
6 Roberto Alomar 116 1575 .371 .443 2004 2379 1988 2004
7 Barry Larkin 116 1381 .371 .444 2004 2180 1986 2004
8 Robin Ventura 114 1162 .362 .444 2004 2079 1989 2004
9 Eric Karros 107 935 .325 .454 2004 1755 1991 2004
10 Todd Zeile 103 1110 .346 .423 2004 2158 1989 2004
11 Mark McLemore 82 797 .349 .341 2004 1832 1986 2004
And newly eligible pitchers with 120 wins or saves
Cnt Player OPS+ ERA+ W SV LstY IP From To
+----+-----------------+----+----+---+---+----+------+----+----+
1 Mike Jackson 78 125 62 142 2004 1188.1 1986 2004
2 Kevin Appier 83 121 169 0 2004 2595.1 1989 2004
3 Pat Hentgen 96 108 131 1 2004 2075.1 1991 2004

[mwiggins]

To me, Larkin and Alomar are the only clear-cut Hall of Famers in that class. McGriff and Martinez have pretty good cases, but they're borderline IMO.

Though I'm sure it won't be looked at as such by the general sports media, that's a strong ballot with Raines, Alomar, and Larkin.

[philliesfiend55]

We're missing a huge name from this list: Former NL MVP Barry Larkin is also eligible in 2010. Although Galarraga may garner enough votes to stay on the ballot for a few years, it is Larkin that will be talked about along with Martinez and Alomar.

I wonder if any of them will get in first try, but Alomar would be the best bet. I think Larkin will be inducted on his third or fourth try. Martinez will mill around 30% of the vote for a while I think, but as the old voters die and are replaced by writers who grew up in the DH era... Edgar will likely gain popularity.

Larkin had a great reputation that enabled him to get elected to a lot of
all-star games (possibly a few he didn't deserve). He must have been a magician as a fielder to get that kind of respect. Except for his much superior stolen base total of 377 steals, his offensive numbers are actually no more impressive than '08 Brewer and current free agent, Ray Durham.

In addition, he will face the same problems getting elected as Roberto Alomar, because both burst upon the major leagues scene at very young ages, and had some peak seasons early in their careers, but from mid-career on, each had a long, slow decline.

-philliesfiend55-

[philliesfiend55]

Fred McGriff is eligible next year, too, it's a really strong crop.

Players with 1500+ games newly eligible for next BBWAA vote
Cnt Player OPS+ RC OBP SLG LstY G From To
+----+-----------------+----+----+-----+-----+----+----+----+----+
1 Edgar Martinez 147 1631 .418 .515 2004 2055 1987 2004
2 Fred McGriff 134 1704 .377 .509 2004 2460 1986 2004
3 Ellis Burks 126 1350 .363 .510 2004 2000 1987 2004
4 Ray Lankford 122 1045 .364 .477 2004 1701 1990 2004
5 Andres Galarraga 118 1394 .347 .499 2004 2257 1985 2004
6 Roberto Alomar 116 1575 .371 .443 2004 2379 1988 2004
7 Barry Larkin 116 1381 .371 .444 2004 2180 1986 2004
8 Robin Ventura 114 1162 .362 .444 2004 2079 1989 2004
9 Eric Karros 107 935 .325 .454 2004 1755 1991 2004
10 Todd Zeile 103 1110 .346 .423 2004 2158 1989 2004
11 Mark McLemore 82 797 .349 .341 2004 1832 1986 2004
And newly eligible pitchers with 120 wins or saves
Cnt Player OPS+ ERA+ W SV LstY IP From To
+----+-----------------+----+----+---+---+----+------+----+----+
1 Mike Jackson 78 125 62 142 2004 1188.1 1986 2004
2 Kevin Appier 83 121 169 0 2004 2595.1 1989 2004
3 Pat Hentgen 96 108 131 1 2004 2075.1 1991 2004

Larkin might not have as easy a time getting in as some think (see my previous post). I didn't realize that McGriff and Burks both became eligible next year also. They both are in the fictional "Hitters Hall Of Fame". Mc Griff came so close to 500 home runs that he's got to pull some votes for that reason alone. He also set a record for consecutive 30 Home Run and 100 RBI seasons (possibly surpassed by now by A-Rod). I believe his streak came to an end because one of the seasons affected by the '94-'95 players' strike, cut the season short and he finished with 29 home runs.
Burks' total of 352 home runs in exactly 2,000 major league games and a .291 batting average deserves consideration.

I found Ventura's pro career a little disappointing as he never hit for that high an average after setting a B. Avg. record in college (similar to Pat Burrell's college and pro careers).

No one else that Freakshow listed as first-time eliibles for the HOF in 2010 has much of a chance.

From that list, however, Two former Phillies Mike Jackson and Todd Zeile are interesting because Jackson had such a long career, came back from an injury where he missed the entire 2000 season, to enjoy a few more strong years, and could alternate between the set-up man and closer roles.
Due to injuries to his Mets' teammates in his final season, 2004, Zeile, a bench player at that point in his career, managed to obtain an unexpectedly large amount of playing time, some at third base and catcher, but primarily at first base. This enabled him to surpass the 2,000 hit milestone in his final two weeks as a major leaguer.

-philliesfiend55-

[Domenic]

Larkin had a great reputation that enabled him to get elected to a lot of
all-star games (possibly a few he didn't deserve). He must have been a magician as a fielder to get that kind of respect. Except for his much superior stolen base total of 377 steals, his offensive numbers are actually no more impressive than '08 Brewer and current free agent, Ray Durham.

Ray Durham, Career:

.277/.352/.436, 104 OPS+, .275 EQA, 2X All-Star

Barry Larkin, Career:

.295/.371/.444, 116 OPS+, .292 EQA, 12X All-Star, 9X Silver Slugger, 3X Gold Glove, 1X MVP

Larkin has decent advantages in average, OBP, SLG, OPS+, EQA, and was perceived as being much better, as can be seen in his hardware and all-star selections. Factor in his plus defense at short, and the two are not comparable.

[brett]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Alomar would easily be the most grievous ommission ever if he isn't inducted into the HOF.

I am not 100% sure that Alomar rates higher than Raines on the all-time list. Currect defensive metrics show his defense to have been overrated, though he is still probably in the upper third to quartile of defensive second basemen. (Sandberg, Edmonds, Griffey and Vizquel would be in similar company).

Still they are both somewhere in the 60s or lower end of the 50s for ML position players.

Jim Rice, on the other hand is probably in the 200s.

Galarraga? Um no, but at least he's in the same class as Jim Rice.

[SavoyBG]

We're missing a huge name from this list: Former NL MVP Barry Larkin is also eligible in 2010. Although Galarraga may garner enough votes to stay on the ballot for a few years, it is Larkin that will be talked about along with Martinez and Alomar.

I wonder if any of them will get in first try, but Alomar would be the best bet. I think Larkin will be inducted on his third or fourth try. Martinez will mill around 30% of the vote for a while I think, but as the old voters die and are replaced by writers who grew up in the DH era... Edgar will likely gain popularity.

There's also Fred McGriff.

[SavoyBG]

Galarraga definitely would have the qualifications to be elected as a Veterans Committee candidate under the old system that prevailed until 2001. He is as deserving as Richie Ashburn, George Kell, Phil Rizzuto. Nellie Fox, Bill Mazeroski, Red Schoendienst , Orlando Cepeda, or any of the latter year Veterans Committee electees. That said, unless the Hall Of Fame abandons it's present set-up of living Hall Of Famers doing the voting, that has failed to elect a single player in four attempts, then it's obvious that "The Big Cat" will be a member of The Colorado Rockies Hall Of Fame and a member of
The Latin American Hall Of Fame, but never the one in Cooperstown.

-philliesfiend55-

He's a firstbaseman with a career OPS+ of just 116. The one first baseman on your list, Cepada, was at 133. Andres is nowhere near a hall of famer.

[KCGHOST]

If you look at all the returning incumbents who got 20% of the the vote this year and add to them all these good candidates (Alomar, McGriff, Larkin, Martinez, Galaraga) you could well end up with a splintered electorate that elects nobody.

[philliesfiend55]

He's a firstbaseman with a career OPS+ of just 116. The one first baseman on your list, Cepada, was at 133. Andres is nowhere near a hall of famer.

Statistics such as the OPS numbers you sighted are helpful in Hall Of Fame discussions but not the sole determiner of who's Hall-Worthy. I'll go with vibes and overall impressions I get of players' careers as well as by stats. My overall impression of Galarrraga is that his overall skills were close enough to Cepeda's that he belongs in the same category and in the same discussion of first basemen, like "The Baby Bull", who might not be the fans' first choice for the Hall Of Fame, but whose name comes up as a candidate soon after the "Lock" or obvious candidates have been considered.

-philliesfiend55-

[SavoyBG]

Statistics such as the OPS numbers you sighted are helpful in Hall Of Fame discussions but not the sole determiner of who's Hall-Worthy. I'll go with vibes and overall impressions I get of players' careers as well as by stats. -philliesfiend55-

VIBES !!!!

The key to judging hall of famers.