The greatest lineups for each franchise

[Pghfan987]

I would like to create a roster for the video game MLB The Show on PS3 that replaces the teams' current rosters with all-time teams for each franchise. For example, the Yanks would have Berra, Gehrig, Gordon, Jeter, A-Rod, DiMaggio, Mantle, and Ruth in their everyday lineup, with Whitey Ford taking the rubber on opening day. (Sidenote, who is the Yanks greatest second baseman of all-time in your opinion?)

Can anyone let me know where I can find some lists of all-time teams for each franchise? Perhaps some links from this site? I am making my own, but would like to consult other people's lists so that I don't make any glaring omissions.

Also, has anyone actually done this before? Would anyone be interested in this? If I do do this, I would do it as an enjoyable hobby and not for profit or anything.

[SavoyBG]

I would like to create a roster for the video game MLB The Show on PS3 that replaces the teams' current rosters with all-time teams for each franchise. For example, the Yanks would have Berra, Gehrig, Gordon, Jeter, A-Rod, DiMaggio, Mantle, and Ruth in their everyday lineup, with Whitey Ford taking the rubber on opening day. (Sidenote, who is the Yanks greatest second baseman of all-time in your opinion?)

Can anyone let me know where I can find some lists of all-time teams for each franchise? Perhaps some links from this site? I am making my own, but would like to consult other people's lists so that I don't make any glaring omissions.

Also, has anyone actually done this before? Would anyone be interested in this? If I do do this, I would do it as an enjoyable hobby and not for profit or anything.

Unless you are allowing players to be on more than one franchise, A-Rod still belongs on Seattle as their SS. Gordon was the best Yanke 2Bman, although Randolph was excellent and Lazzeri would be third.

[sonofkirby]

C- Darrell Porter
1B- John Mayberry
2B- Frank White
SS- Fred Patek
3B- G. Brett
OF- Amos Otis
OF- Willie Wilson
OF- Bo Jackson/ Jermaine Dye
DH- Hal McRae
SP- Bret Saberhagen or Dennis Leonard
RP- Quisenberry

[mwiggins]

Cardinals

C - Ted Simmons
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - Ozzie Smith
3B - Ken Boyer
OF - Stan Musial
OF - Enos Slaughter
OF - Joe Medwick
SP - Bob Gibson

Athletics

C - Mickey Cochrane
1B - Jimmy Foxx
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Bert Campaneris
3B - Home Run Baker
OF - Al Simmons
OF - Rickey Henderson
OF - Reggie Jackson
SP - Lefty Grove


This site might help you. They have all-time teams for every franchise. I don't agree with all of them, but I might get you started.

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/past/att/default.php

[Pghfan987]

Unless you are allowing players to be on more than one franchise, A-Rod still belongs on Seattle as their SS. Gordon was the best Yanke 2Bman, although Randolph was excellent and Lazzeri would be third.
I am not sure how I want to work players who have played over 5 years for more than one franchise. For the Yankees there are obviously plenty of alternatives at third base or any other position, so I can easily replace A-Rod. But I can't imagine leaving Randy Johnson off of the Mariners or the Diamondbacks (he was clearly the best pitcher in franchise history for both teams).

I strongly encourage anyone to post their own all-time rosters, as a few people already have :) .

[Pghfan987]

Cardinals

C - Ted Simmons
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - Ozzie Smith
3B - Ken Boyer
OF - Stan Musial
OF - Enos Slaughter
OF - Joe Medwick
SP - Bob Gibson

Athletics

C - Mickey Cochrane
1B - Jimmy Foxx
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Bert Campaneris
3B - Home Run Baker
OF - Al Simmons
OF - Rickey Henderson
OF - Reggie Jackson
SP - Lefty Grove


This site might help you. They have all-time teams for every franchise. I don't agree with all of them, but I might get you started.

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/past/att/default.php

Thank you so much for the link! Campaneris over Tejada? I guess you really respect longevity and innocence! I already made the A's lineup and I had Tejada at short and Max Bishop at second (I put Collins on the Sox. Again, I am not sure what to do with players like that.)

[Pghfan987]

Two of the teams I would love to play with are the:

Mariners:
RF Ichiro
2B Harold Reynolds
SS A-Rod
CF Ken Griffey
3B Edgar Martinez
1B Alvin Davis
DH Jay Buhner
LF Phil Bradley?
C Dan Wilson
SP Randy Johnson

Indians:
2B Nap Lajoie
LF Joe Jackson
CF Tris Speaker
RF Manny Ramirez
DH Albert Belle
1B Jim Thome
SS Lou Boudreau
3B Al Rosen
C Sandy Alomar
SP Bob Feller

[Pghfan987]

C- Darrell Porter
1B- John Mayberry
2B- Frank White
SS- Fred Patek
3B- G. Brett
OF- Amos Otis
OF- Willie Wilson
OF- Bo Jackson/ Jermaine Dye
DH- Hal McRae
SP- Bret Saberhagen or Dennis Leonard
RP- Quisenberry

I had the same lineup except Danny Tartabull in the outfield instead of Willie Wilson. I would be sacrificing a lot of fielding and speed but put a much bigger bat in the lineup.

Is Mayberry a lock over Sweeney, or is that a close call in your opinion?

[mwiggins]

Thank you so much for the link! Campaneris over Tejada? I guess you really respect longevity and innocence! I already made the A's lineup and I had Tejada at short and Max Bishop at second (I put Collins on the Sox. Again, I am not sure what to do with players like that.)

I liked Bert's defense and his baserunning over Tejada. And he did have some offensive seasons that matched fairly well with Tejada's best in Oakland.

Tejada's three best OPS+ in Oakland - 128, 111, 111
Campaneris three best OPS+ in Oakland - 116, 113, 112

Plus, he played with the A's a lot longer. I put together a similar league in DiamondMind a few years back and they both got plenty of playing time on the all-time A's squad.

[leecemark]

C: Bill Freehan (Lance Parrish)
1B: Hank Greenberg (Norm Cash)
2B: Lou Whitaker (Dick McAuliffe)
3B: George Kell (Travis Fryman)
SS: Alan Trammell (Harvey Kuenn)
LF: Sam Crawford (Willie Horton)
CF: Ty Cobb (Ron LeFlore)
RF: Al Kaline (Kirk Gibson)
DH: Harry Heilman (Cecil Fielder)
SP: Hal Newhouser, Jack Morris, Mickey Lolich, Tommy Bridges
RP: John Hiller, Mike Henneman

[mwiggins]

Phillies

C - Darren Daulton
1B - Dick Allen (a stretch, I know, but he did play one year at 1B for them)
2B - Chase Utley
3B - Mike Schmidt
SS - Dave Bancroft
LF - Ed Delahanty
CF - Richie Ashburn
RF - Sherry Magee
SP - Pete Alexander, Robin Roberts, Steve Carlton, Curt Schilling
RP - Tug McGraw

Pirates

C - Tony Pena
1B - Willie Stargell
2B - Bill Mazeroski
3B - Pie Traynor (though you'd probably be better off staring Arky Vaughn here)
SS - Honus Wagner
RF - Roberto Clemente
CF - Max Carey
LF - Paul Waner
SP - Wilbur Cooper, Babe Adams, Sam Leever, Deacon Phillipe
RP - Roy Face

[The Splendid Splinter]

Chicago Cubs

C- Gabby Hartnett/King Kelly
1B- Derrek Lee/Mark Grace/Cap Anson/Phil Cavarretta
2B- Ryne Sandberg/Billy Herman
SS- Bill Dahlen/Ernie Banks
3B- Ron Santo/Aramis Ramirez/Stan Hack/Heinie Zimmerman/Ned Williamson
LF- Billy Williams/Riggs Stephenson/Hank Sauer
CF- Bill Lange/Hack Wilson/Jimmy Ryan/George Gore
RF- Sammy Sosa/Kiki Cuyler/Bill Nicholson

SP- Mordecai Brown/Larry Corcoran/Hippo Vaughn/Fergie Jenkins/Lon Warneke
RP- Bruce Sutter/Lee Smith/Ryan Dempster/Don Elston

Here’s a list of guys for the Cubs… you can decide who should in the lineup… also you can make a case for Pete Alexander to be on this team as well instead of the A’s and the same way with Greg Maddux, but they probably should be on their other team IMO.

[SavoyBG]

CUBS

Catcher - Hartnett
1B - Anson
2B - Herman/Sandberg
SS - Banks
3B - Santo
LF - B. Williams
CF - H. Wilson
RF - K. Kelly / Cuyler / Sosa
P - Jenkins / TF Brown

[SavoyBG]

WHITE SOX

C - Fisk
1B - Dick Allen
2B - Fox / Collins
SS - Appling
3B - Ventura
LF - Jackson
CF - Felsch
RF - Baines
P - Lyons, Cicotte, Walsh

[The Splendid Splinter]

Dick Allen only played for Sox 3 years so he shouldn't count cuz he was a Phillies majority of his career and Frank Thomas should be there anyway. That's like Cubs taking Rogers Hornsby for their 2B. Fisk is like Pete Alexander/Greg Maddux/etc... where he can be on 2 teams.

[SavoyBG]

Dick Allen only played for Sox 3 years so he shouldn't count cuz he was a Phillies majority of his career and Frank Thomas should be there anyway. That's like Cubs taking Rogers Hornsby for their 2B. Fisk is like Pete Alexander/Greg Maddux/etc... where he can be on 2 teams.


You're right, I forgot about "The Big Hurt" because I was looking at a catalog of old timers from the "Bill James Classic Game."

[CTaka]

I've often thought the Giants would have one of the strongest, most balanced 25-man lineups when you consider both offense and pitching:

C - Buck Ewing, Roger Bresnahan
1B - Willie McCovey, Bill Terry, Roger Connor
2B - Jeff Kent
SS - George Davis, Travis Jackson
3B - Matt Williams, Fred Lindstrom
LF - Barry Bonds
CF - Willie Mays, Bobby Bonds
RF - Mel Ott, Ross Youngs
SP - Christy Mathewson
SP - Juan Marichal
SP - Carl Hubbell
SP - Tim Keefe
SP - Gaylord Perry
RP - Joe McGinnity
RP - Mickey Welch
RP - Jason Schmidt
RP - Rod Beck
Closer - Robb Nen

18 members of the team are in the Hall of Fame, not including Kent (who I think will eventually make it) and Bonds. And while Jackson, Youngs and Lindstrom aren't exactly top tier immortals, they aren't even starters on my version of this team.

[mwiggins]

Braves

C - Joe Torre
1B - Joe Adcock
2B - Bobby Lowe
3B - Eddie Mathews
SS - Rabbit Maranville
LF - Chipper Jones
CF - Billy Hamilton
RF - Hank Aaron
SP - Greg Maddox, Warren Spahn, Kid Nichols, Tom Glavine
RP - John Smoltz

[SavoyBG]

I've often thought the Giants would have one of the strongest, most balanced 25-man lineups when you consider both offense and pitching:

C - Buck Ewing, Roger Bresnahan
1B - Willie McCovey, Bill Terry, Roger Connor
2B - Jeff Kent
SS - George Davis, Travis Jackson
3B - Matt Williams, Fred Lindstrom
LF - Barry Bonds
CF - Willie Mays, Bobby Bonds
RF - Mel Ott, Ross Youngs
SP - Christy Mathewson
SP - Juan Marichal
SP - Carl Hubbell
SP - Tim Keefe
SP - Gaylord Perry
RP - Joe McGinnity
RP - Mickey Welch
RP - Jason Schmidt
RP - Rod Beck
Closer - Robb Nen

18 members of the team are in the Hall of Fame, not including Kent (who I think will eventually make it) and Bonds. And while Jackson, Youngs and Lindstrom aren't exactly top tier immortals, they aren't even starters on my version of this team.

Great team, but I'd want Frisch at 2B, and I'dd want Bancroft before Travis Jackson.

[mwiggins]

I've often thought the Giants would have one of the strongest, most balanced 25-man lineups when you consider both offense and pitching:



Yep, the Giants starting pitching and their outfield makes them at least a match for the Yankees, I think.

Though I would go Frankie Frisch at 2B.

[Tampa Bay Giants]

Cincinnati Reds

C - Johnny Bench (HoF) - Ernie Lombardi (HoF)
1b- Tony Perez (HoF) - Ted Kluszewski
2b- Joe Morgan (HoF)
SS- Barry Larkin - Davey Concepcion
3B- Pete Rose
RF- Frank Robinson (HoF) - Ken Griffey Sr.
CF- Edd Roush (HoF)
LF- Vada Pinson - George Foster

SP - Bucky Walters, Paul Derringer, Jim Maloney, Don Gullett, Tom Browning, Mario Soto
RP - Pedro Borbon, Wayne Granger, Rob Dibble, Scott Sullivan, Jeff Shaw, John Franco

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Can anyone let me know where I can find some lists of all-time teams for each franchise? Perhaps some links from this site?

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/past/att/default.php

I wouldn't go solely by these, but they're a good start. I would also Google "all-time" and then the team to help you compare with this link. Then you could decide which players you want.

BTW, I think you can only create a certain amount of players. That's the case in 07.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Red Sox

C- Carlton Fisk
1B- Jimmie Foxx
2B- Bobby Doerr
SS- Joe Cronin or Nomar Garciaparra
3B- Wade Boggs
LF- Carl Yaz or Manny Ramirez (if you do pick Ramirez I would put him at DH and Williams in left)
CF- Fred Lynn
RF- Dwight Evans
DH- Ted Williams

SP- Cy Young
SP-Lefty Grove
SP- Roger Clemens
SP- Pedro Martinez
SP- Babe Ruth
RP- Mel Parnell*
RP- Luis Tiant*
RP- Carl Mays*
CP- Jonathan Papelbon

Some other good choices are Jim Rice, David Ortiz, Dutch Leonard, and Smoky Joe Wood. The given list should be the best.

*Despite being starters, I don't think ti would hurt to put them as relievers.

[CTaka]

Great team, but I'd want Frisch at 2B, and I'dd want Bancroft before Travis Jackson.

I picked Jackson because Jackson played all his career for the Giants. Bancroft played 681 games for Philly and 524 for the G-men.

Likewise, Frisch played more games for the Cards than the Giants, so Frankie could ride the bench behind Hornsby on the St. Louis team.

But forgetting where they played the majority of their games, I'm still not sure about taking Frisch over Kent. Granted, Frankie gives you a big advantage defensively and on the bases. But I'm inclined to take Kent's offensive edge. Overall, Frisch recorded 150 Win Shares during his 8 seasons (1,00 games) with the Giants. Kent only played 6 seasons (900 games) for the Giants yet recorded more total Win Shares (163) than the Fordham Flash. On a per game, per year, or total basis, Kent has the Win Shares advantage.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Orioles

C- Gus Triandos(?)
1B- Eddie Murray
2B- Davey Johnson
SS- Cal Ripken Jr.
3B- Brooks Robinson
LF- Ken Singleton (even though he played right field)
CF- Paul Blair
RF- Frank Robinson
DH- Boog Powell

(SP- Jim Palmer)

[CTaka]

Orioles

1B- Eddie Murray

LF- Ken Singleton (even though he played right field)


How about Sisler instead of Murray (see Bill, I'm sticking up for you!!).

If you're putting a RF in LF, how about Willie Keeler?

[mwiggins]

Senators/Twins

C - Joe Mauer
1B - Rod Carew
2B - Chuck Knoblauch
3B - Harmon Killebrew
SS - Cecil Travis
LF - Goose Goslin
CF - Kirby Puckett
RF - Tony Oliva
SP - Walter Johnson, Bert Blyleven, Jim Kaat, Johan Santana
RP - Joe Nathan

[EdTarbusz]

How about Sisler instead of Murray (see Bill, I'm sticking up for you!!).

If you're putting a RF in LF, how about Willie Keeler?

I've never seen a picture of Sisler in an Orioles uniform. Keeler's Orioles are defunct.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Orioles

C- Gus Triandos(?)
1B- Eddie Murray
2B- Davey Johnson
SS- Cal Ripken Jr.
3B- Brooks Robinson
LF- Ken Singleton (even though he played right field)
CF- Paul Blair
RF- Frank Robinson
DH- Boog Powell

(SP- Jim Palmer)

C Chris Hoiles
1B Eddie Murray
2B Bobby Grich
SS Cal Ripken, Jr.
3B Brooks Robinson
LF Don Buford
CF Brady Anderson
RF Frank Robinson
DH Boog Powell/Ken Singleton
SP Jim Palmer

[mwiggins]

Dodgers

C - Roy Campanella
1B - Gil Hodges
2B - Jackie Robinson
3B - Ron Cey
SS - Pee Wee Reese
LF - Zack Wheat
CF - Duke Snider
RF - Babe Herman
SP - Sandy Koufax, Dazzy Vance, Don Drysdale, Orel Hershiser
RP - Ron Perranoski

[Fuzzy Bear]

Senators/Twins

C - Joe Mauer
1B - Rod Carew
2B - Chuck Knoblauch
3B - Harmon Killebrew
SS - Cecil Travis
LF - Goose Goslin
CF - Kirby Puckett
RF - Tony Oliva
SP - Walter Johnson, Bert Blyleven, Jim Kaat, Johan Santana
RP - Joe Nathan

C - Joe Mauer
1B - Kent Hrbek
2B - Rod Carew
3B - Gary Gaetti
SS - Roy Smalley (Minnesota years, only)
LF - Harmon Killebrew
CF - Kirby Puckett
RF - Tony Oliva
DH - Bob Allison
SP - Bert Blyleven, Jim Kaat, Johan Santana, Jim Perry
RP - Jeff Reardon

[Fuzzy Bear]

C: Bill Freehan (Lance Parrish)
1B: Hank Greenberg (Norm Cash)
2B: Lou Whitaker (Dick McAuliffe)
3B: George Kell (Travis Fryman)
SS: Alan Trammell (Harvey Kuenn)
LF: Sam Crawford (Willie Horton)
CF: Ty Cobb (Ron LeFlore)
RF: Al Kaline (Kirk Gibson)
DH: Harry Heilman (Cecil Fielder)
SP: Hal Newhouser, Jack Morris, Mickey Lolich, Tommy Bridges
RP: John Hiller, Mike Henneman


Whitaker over Charley Gehringer? :debate:

[mwiggins]

RP - Jeff Reardon

Man, you've to pick Nathan over Reardon.

Nathan - 5 yrs with Twins, 199 SV's, 255 OPS+
Reardon - 3 yrs with Twins, 104 SV's, 123 OPS+

[Pghfan987]

BTW, I think you can only create a certain amount of players. That's the case in 07.

I found a loophole :) . You can completely edit the AA players, so I just turn the AA players into the all-time team, then promote them all to the majors. I probably won't bother changing all of their facial features though, just too much work. Height, weight, race, and facial hair will probably be their only distuguishing physical features.

[CTaka]

I've never seen a picture of Sisler in an Orioles uniform. Keeler's Orioles are defunct.

The St. Louis Browns relocated to Baltimore after the 1954 season and were renamed the Orioles. Same franchise.

[Pghfan987]

My closer for the Orioles franchise:

[Pghfan987]

Oh I just had a great idea. Replace the Diamondbacks and Devil Rays with two Negro League all-star teams. I wouldn't be missing any HOFers because Randy Johnson would go on the Mariners. Any idea on how to divide the Negro Leaguers up into two teams?

[EdTarbusz]

The St. Louis Browns relocated to Baltimore after the 1954 season and were renamed the Orioles. Same franchise.

I still haven't found any Baltimore stats for Sisler.

You're off by a year. Baltimore started playing in 1954.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Oh I just had a great idea. Replace the Diamondbacks and Devil Rays with two Negro League all-star teams. I wouldn't be missing any HOFers because Randy Johnson would go on the Mariners. Any idea on how to divide the Negro Leaguers up into two teams?

Team 1

C- Josh Gibson
1B- Mule Suttles
2B- Frank Grant
SS- Pop Lloyd
3B- Hook Dandridge
LF- Monte Irvin
CF- Turkey Stearnes
RF- Christobal Torriente
DH- Willard Brown
SP- Satchel Paige
SP- Willie Foster
SP- Martin Dihigo

Team 2

C- Biz Mackey
1B- Buck Leonard
2B- Sammy Hughes
SS- Willie Wells
3B- Jud Wilson
LF- Cool Papa Bell
CF- Oscar Charleston
RF- Chino Smith
DH- John Beckwith
SP- Smokey Joe Williams
SP- Bullet Joe Rogan
SP- Hilton Smith

I tried to make them equal. I didn't give a full 25-man roster either. And starting pitcher Martin Dihigo can play just about anywhere.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

How about Sisler instead of Murray (see Bill, I'm sticking up for you!!).

If you're putting a RF in LF, how about Willie Keeler?

This was Orioles only. Sisler played for the Browns. Keeler's Orioles became the Yankees.

[leecemark]

This was Orioles only. Sisler played for the Browns. Keeler's Orioles became the Yankees.

--Willie Keeler's Orioles went out of business when the NL contracted before the 1900 season. There was briefly a Baltimore team in the AL which moved to New York and became the Yankees, but Keeler did not play for them . Keeler could play for the Dodgers or Yankees if you wanted him in the game.
--Oh and my leaving Gehringer off the Tigers was a shamefull oversight. Whitaker was very good, but Gehringer was a great and would be the starter.

[Gee Walker]

C: Ernie Whitt
1B: Carlos Delgado
2b: Roberto Alomar
3B: Rance Mulliniks (or Kelly Gruber in a shorter stay)
SS: Tony Fernandez
LF: Joe Carter
CF: Vernon Wells
RF: Jesse Barfield
DH: George Bell
Starters: Dave Stieb, Roy Halladay, Pat Hentgen, Jimmy Key (assuming I don't get to use Roger Clemens)
Closer: Tom Henke

[kgrifeyjr30]

Also, has anyone actually done this before? Would anyone be interested in this? If I do do this, I would do it as an enjoyable hobby and not for profit or anything.

I used to do this all the time with the MLB series of video games. There was always glitches that really pissed me off so I would eventually stop playing them, but yes I have that same hobby...

[kgrifeyjr30]

Team 1

C- Josh Gibson
1B- Mule Suttles
2B- Frank Grant
SS- Pop Lloyd
3B- Hook Dandridge
LF- Monte Irvin
CF- Turkey Stearnes
RF- Christobal Torriente
DH- Willard Brown
SP- Satchel Paige
SP- Willie Foster
SP- Martin Dihigo

Team 2

C- Biz Mackey
1B- Buck Leonard
2B- Sammy Hughes
SS- Willie Wells
3B- Jud Wilson
LF- Cool Papa Bell
CF- Oscar Charleston
RF- Chino Smith
DH- John Beckwith
SP- Smokey Joe Williams
SP- Bullet Joe Rogan
SP- Hilton Smith

I tried to make them equal. I didn't give a full 25-man roster either. And starting pitcher Martin Dihigo can play just about anywhere.

I guess you could add in guys like Sadahara Oh too if you wanted to.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

I guess you could add in guys like Sadahara Oh too if you wanted to.

I just stuck with the Negro Leagues. Besides, Oh is the only famous Japanese player I know of.

[Mongoose]

Now starting for the Mets:

C Gary Carter
1B Keith Hernandez
2B Ron Hunt
3B David Wright
SS Jose Reyes
LF Mike Piazza
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Darryl Strawberry
P Tom Seaver

Piazza's bat needs to be in the lineup somehow.

[CTaka]

This was Orioles only. Sisler played for the Browns. Keeler's Orioles became the Yankees.

You are right about Keeler's Orioles becoming the Yankees (hmm, maybe Willie could play RF on the Yankees team - they never had anyone better there, right? ;))

But the Browns were the Orioles before they moved to Baltimore in 1954. I interpreted this as the best in franchise history since your post said "Orioles". If it was "all time lineup for teams playing in Baltimore", then obviously the Browns players wouldn't qualify. So I think the Browns players would qualify for consideration since they were the same franchise as the current Orioles. Now whether Sisler or Murray deserves the starting spot is the more relevant question...

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

But the Browns were the Orioles before they moved to Baltimore in 1954. I interpreted this as the best in franchise history since your post said "Orioles". If it was "all time lineup for teams playing in Baltimore", then obviously the Browns players wouldn't qualify. So I think the Browns players would qualify for consideration since they were the same franchise as the current Orioles. Now whether Sisler or Murray deserves the starting spot is the more relevant question...

Understood, good sir. Like I said, I was just using the Baltimore Orioles only. And I think Murray was better than Sisler.

[CTaka]

Understood, good sir. Like I said, I was just using the Baltimore Orioles only. And I think Murray was better than Sisler.


Fair enough. And if you take Murray over Sisler, it makes the inclusion of Browns players a mute point. That one probably comes down to how much weight one gives to peak vs career value.

[SteveJRogers]

Now starting for the Mets:

C Gary Carter
1B Keith Hernandez
2B Ron Hunt
3B David Wright
SS Jose Reyes
LF Mike Piazza
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Darryl Strawberry
P Tom Seaver

Piazza's bat needs to be in the lineup somehow.

Hunt over Alfonzo?

Really?

I'd put Piazza behind the plate and plug Cleon into Left.

[EdTarbusz]

[QUOTE=CTaka;1392332]You are right about Keeler's Orioles becoming the Yankees (hmm, maybe Willie could play RF on the Yankees team - they never had anyone better there, right? ;))

QUOTE]

Keeler was not on the Orioles team that moved to New York. When that Oriole team was in existence, Keeler was playing in Brooklyn.

[Mongoose]

Hunt over Alfonzo?

Really?

I'd put Piazza behind the plate and plug Cleon into Left.

Adjusting for era, Hunt was a really good OBP guy... Mostly though he gave it up on the field, and he did this at a time when Stengel really didn't care about winning and was playing the part of manager for laffs... He had and maintained a winning attitude at a time almost nobody else did... It's a case of going with intangibles and showing some love for a guy that shouldn't be forgotten.

Carter was just a much better catcher and Piazza's bat (and Beltran's range) would make up for any defensive liability.

[Mongoose]

Franchises that have major moves and/or change names really should have separate teams for each identity.

[Homestead Gray]

Here are my picks for the Montreal Expos....

C Gary Carter
1B Andres Galarraga
2B Jose Vidro
3B Larry Parrish
SS Tim Foli
LF Tim Raines
CF Andre Dawson
RF Vladimir Guerrero

SP Steve Rogers
RP Jeff Reardon

(apologies to Larry Walker he is too good to be left off but could not break the lineup)

[Pghfan987]

Here are my picks for the Montreal Expos....

C Gary Carter
1B Andres Galarraga
2B Jose Vidro
3B Larry Parrish
SS Tim Foli
LF Tim Raines
CF Andre Dawson
RF Vladimir Guerrero

SP Steve Rogers
RP Jeff Reardon

(apologies to Larry Walker he is too good to be left off but could not break the lineup)

I like this lineup a lot. Tim Wallach > Larry Parrish at third base in my opinion, and maybe Chris Speier at short as well? Don't worry, Steve Rogers won't be batting in my league, I'll put Raines at DH and Walker in LF.

[commishbob]

Orioles (from '54+)

1b-Eddie Murray
2B-Dave Johnson
SS-Cal Ripken
3B-Brooks Robinson
LF-Don Buford
CF-Paul Blair
RF-Frank Robinson
C- Rick Dempsey
DH-Ken Singleton
SP-Jim Palmer
RB-Tippy Martinez

[Homestead Gray]

I like this lineup a lot. Tim Wallach > Larry Parrish at third base in my opinion, and maybe Chris Speier at short as well? Don't worry, Steve Rogers won't be batting in my league, I'll put Raines at DH and Walker in LF.

I agree that it could have gone either way. I saw both Wallach and Parrish play quite often and Parrish always stuck me as the guy who would line the ball of the top of the wall at the most important time of the game. In terms of numbers they are about the same with Wallach playing two more years. As for Speier vs. Foli, I went on personal preference but you are right about the numbers Speier would be a better choice.

As for the DH I have none and that leaves someone off the list and I chose Walker. Could not bring myself to consider the DH.

Great feedback ... much appreiciated

[brett]

C- Darrell Porter
1B- John Mayberry
2B- Frank White
SS- Fred Patek
3B- G. Brett
OF- Amos Otis
OF- Willie Wilson
OF- Bo Jackson/ Jermaine Dye
DH- Hal McRae
SP- Bret Saberhagen or Dennis Leonard
RP- Quisenberry


Might put in Sweeney, Tartabull, Appier

[dgarza]

Here are my picks for the Montreal Expos....

C Gary Carter
1B Andres Galarraga
2B Jose Vidro
3B Larry Parrish
SS Tim Foli
LF Tim Raines
CF Andre Dawson
RF Vladimir Guerrero

SP Steve Rogers
RP Jeff Reardon




I like this lineup a lot. Tim Wallach > Larry Parrish at third base in my opinion, and maybe Chris Speier at short as well? Don't worry, Steve Rogers won't be batting in my league, I'll put Raines at DH and Walker in LF.Even Bob Bailey was better at third than Parrish.

SS could go to Speier, Hubie Brooks, or Orlando Cabrera.

I would also add that Ron Fairly is about even with Galarraga at first, I think.

Nobody comes close to throwing so many innings as Rogers does. I'm not sure if I'd go with Rogers, Dennis Martinez, or Pedro Martinez (for peak's sake).

Burke>Reardon?


(apologies to Larry Walker he is too good to be left off but could not break the lineup)I would say the same thing about Rusty Staub.

[Tampa Bay Giants]

I guess you could add in guys like Sadahara Oh too if you wanted to.
I just stuck with the Negro Leagues. Besides, Oh is the only famous Japanese player I know of.

Giants - Tokyo/Yomiuri that is.

1b - Sadaharu Oh
2b - Shigeru Chiba
SS - Toshio Shiraishi
3b - Shigeo Nagashima
OF - Hideki Matsui
OF - Isao Shibata
OF - Wally Yonamine
P - Masaki Saito
P - Akira Bessho

[brett]

Orioles (from '54+)

1b-Eddie Murray
2B-Dave Johnson
SS-Cal Ripken
3B-Brooks Robinson
LF-Don Buford
CF-Paul Blair
RF-Frank Robinson
C- Rick Dempsey
DH-Ken Singleton
SP-Jim Palmer
RB-Tippy Martinez

Grich at second I think

[yanks0714]

I've done this type thing several times in simulated baseball.

One thing that I stick with though. Franchises. The Browns/Orioles are 1 franchise. Senators/Twins are 1 franchise. Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta are 1 franchise. Philly/KC/Oakland are 1 franchies. Brooklyn/LA are 1 franchise. NY/SF are 1 franchise.

Why shortchange the franchises that have moved? If you do that you severely limit some franchises list of players eligible while other continuous franchises have many more years to choose from.

One way of limiting players chose to make it fair. Considering 1903 as the first year of 2 leagues as we know them culminating in a World Series, I use 1903 to 1953 and 1952 to 2004. Gives each franchise a fair break.

[RuthMayBond]

SP- Bret Saberhagen or Dennis Leonard
Appier, Gubicza, Liebrandt

[RuthMayBond]

SP: Hal Newhouser, Jack Morris, Mickey Lolich, Tommy Bridges
Dizzy Trout instead of Morris

[RuthMayBond]

Braves

1B - Joe Adcock

SS - Rabbit Maranville

CF - Billy Hamilton
Maybe Tenney, Long and Murphy?

[RuthMayBond]

Cincinnati Reds
SP - Bucky Walters, Paul Derringer, Jim Maloney, Don Gullett, Tom Browning, Mario Soto
RP - Pedro Borbon, Wayne Granger, Rob Dibble, Scott Sullivan, Jeff Shaw, John FrancoMaybe Luque and Hahn
Clay Carroll

[RuthMayBond]

Orioles


LF- Ken Singleton (even though he played right field)

RF- Frank Robinson

(SP- Jim Palmer)Ken Williams in LF, Singleton in RF, Robinson goes to the Reds
Mussina, Shocker, Howell?

[AstrosFan]

Maybe Tenney, Long and Murphy?

If you're going just by what they did with the franchise, then Murphy over Hamilton. If that doesn't matter, I take Hamilton.

Going with the former requirement, how about Wally Berger? Anyone take him over Dale Murphy?

Herman Long doesn't seem to have a lot recommending him in the former requirement, and I'd take Bill Dahlen in the latter.

First base I go Adcock, but Tenney's a nice pick.

[GordonGecko]

Here are my picks for the Montreal Expos....

C Gary Carter
1B Andres Galarraga
2B Jose Vidro
3B Larry Parrish
SS Tim Foli
LF Tim Raines
CF Andre Dawson
RF Vladimir Guerrero

SP Steve Rogers
RP Jeff Reardon

(apologies to Larry Walker he is too good to be left off but could not break the lineup)

Expos have so much to choose from, especially later in the franchise.. Larry Walker, Moises Alou, Delino Desheilds, Marquis Grissom, John Wetteland, Pedro Martinez, Dennis Martinez, the list goes on...

[mwiggins]

Maybe Tenney, Long and Murphy?

I actually went with Hamilton over Murphy for lineup reasons. With Torre, Adcock, Chipper, Mathews, and Aaron this team doesn't need more power. They do need a leadoff guy though.

That, and I would rank Hamilton over Murphy overall, even though Murphy probably did more for the Braves.

[sonofkirby]

I had the same lineup except Danny Tartabull in the outfield instead of Willie Wilson. I would be sacrificing a lot of fielding and speed but put a much bigger bat in the lineup.

Is Mayberry a lock over Sweeney, or is that a close call in your opinion?


I was really torn over this pick... I could go either way. I also considered Tartabull, but KC has historically never been a power loaded team, and I think Wilson's speed and defense was a better option.

[PVNICK]

Mets

C-Carter
1B-Hernandez
2B-Alfonzo
SS-Reyes
3B-Wright
LF-Cleon Jones
CF-Beltran
RF-Strawberry
LH-PH/DH-Staub
RH-PH/DH - b/u C-Piazza

P
Seaver
Koosman
Gooden
Cone
Matlack

Santana needs a second year just on principle

RP
McGraw

[RuthMayBond]

Herman Long doesn't seem to have a lot recommending him in the former requirement, and I'd take Bill Dahlen in the latter.
Dahlen did play an entire year and a half for the Braves

[RuthMayBond]

Mets

C-CarterSorry, an Expo/Nat

<Santana needs a second year just on principle>

Santana needs at least four more years before he comes off the Twins list

<McGraw>

Nah, he's a Phil

[dgarza]

Cincinnati Reds

C - Johnny Bench (HoF) - Ernie Lombardi (HoF)
1b- Tony Perez (HoF) - Ted Kluszewski
2b- Joe Morgan (HoF) - Bid McPhee (HoF)
SS- Barry Larkin - Davey Concepcion
3B- Heinie Groh - Chris Sabo
RF- Frank Robinson (HoF) - Pete Rose
CF- Vada Pinson - Edd Roush (HoF)
LF- George Foster - Adam Dunn

SP - Jose Rijo, Noodles Hahn, Bucky Walters, Dolf Luque, Eppa Rixey, Jim Maloney
RP - John Franco, Joe Beggs, Rob Dibble, Clay Carroll, Norm Charlton, Scott Williamson
I threw in some other suggestions...

[dgarza]

Cardinals

C - Ted Simmons
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - Ozzie Smith
3B - Ken Boyer
RF - Stan Musial
CF - Jim Edmonds
LF - Joe Medwick
SP - Bob Gibson

I think your Cards's OF can be rearanged to include LF, CF, & RF and be even better.

Otherwise, pretty solid picks. To be honest, the Cards are a pretty easy team to pick "all timers".

[kgrifeyjr30]

pretty good bench too with red schoendinst, enos slaughter, pepper martin, and lou brock

[dgarza]

pretty good bench too with red schoendinst, enos slaughter, pepper martin, and lou brockJohnny Mize and maybe even McGwire.

[mwiggins]

I think your Cards's OF can be rearanged to include LF, CF, & RF and be even better.

Otherwise, pretty solid picks. To be honest, the Cards are a pretty easy team to pick "all timers".

Good point. I had forgotten Edmunds had spent so many years with the Cards.

That middle of the order would be fearsome. Hornsby-Musial-Pujols would even match up well with the Yankees all-time team's 3-4-5 hitters, whichever of their big 4 - Mantle, Ruth, DiMaggio, Gehrig - that you hit in those spots.

[SavoyBG]

Good point. I had forgotten Edmunds had spent so many years with the Cards.

That middle of the order would be fearsome. Hornsby-Musial-Pujols would even match up well with the Yankees all-time team's 3-4-5 hitters, whichever of their big 4 - Mantle, Ruth, DiMaggio, Gehrig - that you hit in those spots.

With the makeup of that team it would probably be better to bat those guys 2-3-4 rather than 3-4-5. Maybe Hornsby bats second with Musial third and Pujols 4th, Medwick, 5th. They don't really have a great leadoff hitter either.

[mwiggins]

With the makeup of that team it would probably be better to bat those guys 2-3-4 rather than 3-4-5. Maybe Hornsby bats second with Musial third and Pujols 4th, Medwick, 5th. They don't really have a great leadoff hitter either.

Nope, they don't. Usually I bat Ozzie leadoff with the Cards all-time team, with Slaughter hitting 2nd.

And with the Yankees, I usually use this lineup put Mantle leading off, DiMaggio 2nd, Ruth 3rd, Gehrig 4th, and Berra/Dickey 5th.

[RuthMayBond]

And with the Yankees, I usually use this lineup put Mantle leading off, DiMaggio 2nd, Ruth 3rd, Gehrig 4th, and Berra/Dickey 5th.You bat Mantle leadoff instead of Jeter or Lazzeri?

[AstrosFan]

Dahlen did play an entire year and a half for the Braves

I just figured out where I went wrong. The database I was looking at doesn't have pre-1900 data, so it missed every season for Herman Long from 1899 and back, thus suggesting he didn't accomplish much with the Braves franchise.

[mwiggins]

You bat Mantle leadoff instead of Jeter or Lazzeri?

Yep. He's got a much better OBP than those guys, and better speed. He and DiMaggio make a great hit and run combo, as well. Plus, you get your big guns more PA's by hitting them 1-4.

[SavoyBG]

Nope, they don't. Usually I bat Ozzie leadoff with the Cards all-time team, with Slaughter hitting 2nd.


But if Slaughter is gone, with Musial in RF and Medwick in LF, what will you do?

Ozzie is clearly the worst hitter on the team, I think he should bat 8th.

I'd go....

Boyer
Hornsby
Musial
Pujols
Medwick
Edmonds
Simmons
Ozzie

If you've got Slaughter instead of Medwick, I'd lead Slaughter off and drop Boyer to # 6 with Edmonds at # 5.

Either way it doesn't make sense to give Ozzie the most plate appearances on the team.

[SavoyBG]

Yep. He's got a much better OBP than those guys, and better speed. He and DiMaggio make a great hit and run combo, as well. Plus, you get your big guns more PA's by hitting them 1-4.

Why would you EVER want to hit and run with Mantle on first and Dimaggio up, followed by Ruth and Gehrig. That would be a terrible strategy. It's pretty much like having DiMaggio sacrafice there. The hit and run robs DiMaggio of much of his power and will result in a lot of groundouts where Mantle ends up at 2B......as if DiMaggio sacraficed. The defense can then walk either Ruth or Gehrig (if they get Ruth out) with first open.

You' score more runs in the season if you never used the hit and run.

[mwiggins]

Why would you EVER want to hit and run with Mantle on first and Dimaggio up, followed by Ruth and Gehrig. That would be a terrible strategy. It's pretty much like having DiMaggio sacrafice there. The hit and run robs DiMaggio of much of his power and will result in a lot of groundouts where Mantle ends up at 2B......as if DiMaggio sacraficed. The defense can then walk either Ruth or Gehrig (if they get Ruth out) with first open.

You' score more runs in the season if you never used the hit and run.

For the fun of it. Usually scoring runs isn't a problem for that lineup, it's just a matter of whether your starting pitcher can avoid getting rocked before you get to Gossage and Rivera.

And there's a certain perverse pleasure in playing McGraw smallball with a lineup loaded with Yankee sluggers. :nod:

[Pghfan987]

Wow, I never posted my Buccos team:

CF Carey
LF Clarke
SS Wagner
RF Clemente
1B Stargell
DH Waner
3B Traynor
C Kendall
2B Maz

SP Phillippe
RP Face

[RuthMayBond]

Wow, I never posted my Buccos team:

CF Carey
LF Clarke
SS Wagner
RF Clemente
1B Stargell
DH Waner
3B Traynor
C Kendall
2B Maz

SP Phillippe
RP FaceHow come no one wants Tekulve? :shrug::shrug::shrug:

[Pghfan987]

How come no one wants Tekulve? :shrug::shrug::shrug:

That's an excellent question, and one that I unfortunately don't have an answer for :(. Obviously they both are on the roster in the bullpen.

[dgarza]

C- Darrell Porter
1B- John Mayberry
2B- Frank White
SS- Fred Patek
3B- G. Brett
OF- Amos Otis
OF- Willie Wilson
OF- Bo Jackson/ Jermaine Dye
DH- Hal McRae
SP- Bret Saberhagen or Dennis Leonard
RP- Quisenberry
Most of your positions are filled with great choices.

I like to see the OF divided into RF/CF/LF.
Wilson, Otis, or maybe even Beltran would be fine CFers.
Bo Jackson is fine in LF.
I like Danny Tartabull in RF. Dye played less and had some poor beginnings.

I think the pitcher would come down to Saberhagen or Appier. Leonard maybe only as a 4th or 5th starter.
No dispute with Quiz-master.

[Pghfan987]

I gotta go with Saberhagen on the Royals as the starter. Cy Young Awards are sexy.

[125osprey]

Ladies and Gentlemen, please put your hands together for the 1977-2008 Toronto Blue Jays!

C - Ernie Whitt/Pat Borders
1B - Carlos Delgado
2B - Robbie Alomar
3B - Rance Mullinks/Ed Sprague
SS - Tony Fernandez
LF - Joe Carter
CF - Devon White/Vernon Wells (originally, I erred and had Shannon Stewart in this spot)
RF - Jesse Barfield
DH - George Bell
SRP - Roy Halladay
SLP - Jimmy Key
RP - Tom Henke
Manager - Cito Gaston

Even though Cito is my manager I have taken a play from Bobby Cox's play book and utilized a platoon system at three positions. Also, in order to qualify for the team, a player must have spent a minimum of five years in a Jays' uniform. That is why Molitor and Clemens are absent.

[Pghfan987]

It's easy to forget players who are still on the team:

[dgarza]

Athletics

C - Mickey Cochrane
1B - Jimmy Foxx
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Bert Campaneris
3B - Home Run Baker
OF - Al Simmons
OF - Rickey Henderson
OF - Reggie Jackson
SP - Lefty Grove



Perfect. Now just throw in Eckersley for your closer, and you're set!

[Pghfan987]

The Astros:

CF Cesar Cedeno
2B Craig Biggio
LF Lance Berkman
1B Jeff Bagwell
RF Jimmy Wynn
3B Ken Caminiti
SS Craig Reynolds
C Brad Ausmus

SP Roy Oswalt
RP Billy Wagner

Bench: Jose Cruz (OF), Glenn Davis (1B), Bob Watson (OF), Alan Ashby (C), Doug Rader (IF)

[dgarza]

Mariners:
RF Ichiro
2B Harold Reynolds
SS A-Rod
CF Ken Griffey
3B Edgar Martinez
1B Alvin Davis
DH Jay Buhner
LF Phil Bradley?
C Dan Wilson
SP Randy Johnson



I know you want to get the extra bat, but Martinez should push Buhner out of the DH spot and Beltre could fill in at 3B.

[dgarza]

The Astros:

CF Cesar Cedeno
2B Craig Biggio
LF Lance Berkman
1B Jeff Bagwell
RF Jimmy Wynn
3B Ken Caminiti
SS Craig Reynolds
C Brad Ausmus

SP Roy Oswalt
RP Billy Wagner

Bench: Jose Cruz (OF), Glenn Davis (1B), Bob Watson (OF), Alan Ashby (C), Doug Rader (IF)If you want to be adventurous, you might think about Dickie Thon at SS.

Caminiti if fine at 3B. Probably would be the same as having Ensberg.

[125osprey]

It's easy to forget players who are still on the team:



Error in centre! How right you are. What a silly brain lapse. I didn't mean to platoon Stewart with Devo. Of course, Vernon Wells would be a better choice.

Thanks for catching that.

[brett]

Wow, I never posted my Buccos team:

CF Carey
LF Clarke
SS Wagner
RF Clemente
1B Stargell
DH Waner
3B Traynor
C Kendall
2B Maz

SP Phillippe
RP Face

that's 4 darn good defensive outfielders

[STLCards2]

I gotta go with Saberhagen on the Royals as the starter. Cy Young Awards are sexy.

Saberhagen was a beast - and was only a few healthier seasons away from a HOF career. Bret put the Saber in Sabermetrics!;) Leonard was good, but not like Sabes!

[White Knight]

Cardinals

C - Ted Simmons
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Rogers Hornsby
SS - Ozzie Smith
3B - Ken Boyer
OF - Stan Musial
OF - Enos Slaughter
OF - Joe Medwick
SP - Bob Gibson

Athletics

C - Mickey Cochrane
1B - Jimmy Foxx
2B - Eddie Collins
SS - Bert Campaneris
3B - Home Run Baker
OF - Al Simmons
OF - Rickey Henderson
OF - Reggie Jackson
SP - Lefty Grove


This site might help you. They have all-time teams for every franchise. I don't agree with all of them, but I might get you started.

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/past/att/default.php

It sucks how poor Big Mac has to compete with Pujols AND Foxx. He just can't get a break.

[Pghfan987]

that's 4 darn good defensive outfielders

Come to think of it, that Buccos team might have the best overall defense. I would have to look at all the lineups, but they have the OF of Clarke/Carey/Clemente, the double play combo of Wagner and Maz, and Traynor is no slouch at third. Stargell is the only big weakness defensively.

[RuthMayBond]

Come to think of it, that Buccos team might have the best overall defense. I would have to look at all the lineups, but they have the OF of Clarke/Carey/Clemente, the double play combo of Wagner and Maz, and Traynor is no slouch at third. Stargell is the only big weakness defensively.Dang, righty pull hitters and flyball hitters better say their prayers

[Olliemets]

Mets

C-Carter
1B-Hernandez
2B-Alfonzo
SS-Reyes
3B-Wright
LF-Cleon Jones
CF-Beltran
RF-Strawberry
LH-PH/DH-Staub
RH-PH/DH - b/u C-Piazza

P
Seaver
Koosman
Gooden
Cone
Matlack

Santana needs a second year just on principle

RP
McGraw

Like this Met grouping over Mongoose's.

Might have to go with Piazza behind plate though if we are looking at Carter's Met only career. Just too good offensively.

Alfonso over Run Hunt is a slam dunk.

Glad someone remembers Jon Matlack. Frustrating, but brilliant at times. Victim of Offensive Met Offenses of the early Mid 70's

[Paul Wendt]

I would like to create a roster for the video game MLB The Show on PS3 that replaces the teams' current rosters with all-time teams for each franchise. For example, the Yanks would have Berra, Gehrig, Gordon, Jeter, A-Rod, DiMaggio, Mantle, and Ruth in their everyday lineup, with Whitey Ford taking the rubber on opening day.

That is, 30 pre-fab ballclubs who are not permitted to share players?
and they need essentially nine players including one pitcher?
What skills do they players have? perhaps the modeled average of their seasons played with that club? (Beside growth and decline, as for everyone, there are players who essentially change fielding positions when they change clubs.)

[Pghfan987]

That is, 30 pre-fab ballclubs who are not permitted to share players?
and they need essentially nine players including one pitcher?
What skills do they players have? perhaps the modeled average of their seasons played with that club? (Beside growth and decline, as for everyone, there are players who essentially change fielding positions when they change clubs.)


It's really up to you to have your own criteria. As for me, I usually don't let teams share players, and I try to only count their years on that team. Also, you can decide that RFers can easily play LF, or a shortstop could move to third if you decide that a team has two awesome players at the same position and neither one should be excluded.

[JessePopHaines16]

pretty good bench too with red schoendinst, enos slaughter, pepper martin, and lou brock

Cant forget about Terry Moore. They were comparing his fielding in the 30s and 40s to Dimaggio's during the 1942 World Series when their teams played each other.

Me being a cardinals fan likes that lineup but mine would be a little different.

1. CF Lou Brock
2. SS Ozzie Smith
3. 1B Albert Pujols
4. 2B Rogers Hornsby
5. LF Stan Musial
6. RF Joe Medwick
7. C Ted Simmons
8. 3B Ken Boyer
9. P Bob Gibson

[Pghfan987]

Cant forget about Terry Moore. They were comparing his fielding in the 30s and 40s to Dimaggio's during the 1942 World Series when their teams played each other.

Me being a cardinals fan likes that lineup but mine would be a little different.

1. CF Lou Brock
2. SS Ozzie Smith
3. 1B Albert Pujols
4. 2B Rogers Hornsby
5. LF Stan Musial
6. RF Joe Medwick
7. C Ted Simmons
8. 3B Ken Boyer
9. P Bob Gibson
Ew, pleeeeease move Ozzie out of the two hole. Why not give the HOFers who made the Hall based on their hitting another at bat?

[JessePopHaines16]

Ew, pleeeeease move Ozzie out of the two hole. Why not give the HOFers who made the Hall based on their hitting another at bat?

Well i guess i can move Boyer and Ozzie around but Ozzie's offense is pretty underrated and i just wanted speed at the top so that way if anybody else just hits sort of a blooper there is a chance not just for them to get 1 run but 2 runs in.

[HDH]

Come to think of it, that Buccos team might have the best overall defense. I would have to look at all the lineups, but they have the OF of Clarke/Carey/Clemente, the double play combo of Wagner and Maz, and Traynor is no slouch at third. Stargell is the only big weakness defensively.

I always considered Jake Beckley the greatest 1B until George Sisler then Lou Gehrig arrived. Otherwise, Stargel was a LF much of career. Max Carey was in CF but, also used in LF in the beginning of his career. The Waners, Arky Vaughan, and Ralf Kiner belong in reserve too. Great defensive team overall.

I'll try a difficult one

Brewers:

C Darrell Porter, BJ Surhoff
1B Cecil Cooper (3), Prince Fielder
2B Fernando Vina (7)
SS Robin Yount (2)
3B Paul Molitor (1)
RF Ben Oglivie (5)
CF Gorman Thomas (6)
LF Ryan Braun (4)

SP Ben Sheets, Teddy Higuera, Jim Colborn, Mike Caldwell, Pete Vuckovich

RP Dan Plesac

Tigers

C Bill Freehan, Lance Parrish
1B Hank Greenburg, Lu Blue, Rudy York
2B Charlie Gehringer
SS Donie Bush
3B George Kell
RF Harry Heilmann, Al Kaline, Sam Crawford
CF Ty Cobb
LF Bobby Veach

SP-R George Mullin, SP-L Hal Newhouser, SP-R Hook Dauss, SP-L Mickey Lolich, SP-R Tommy Bridges

RP John Hiller


Phillies
C Bob Boone
1B Ryan Howard
2B Chase Utley
SS Jimmy Rollins, Larry Bowa
3B Mike Schmidt
RF Chuck Klein, Sam Thompson
CF Billy Hamilton, Richie Ashburn
LF Ed Delehanty, Sherry Magee

SP-R Pete Alexander, SP-L Steve Carlton, SP-R Robin Roberts, SP-R Curt Schilling, SP-R Jim Bunning, SP-R Charlie Buffington

RP Jim Konstanty

Giants

C Buck Ewing, Roger Bresnahan
1B Bill Terry, Roger Conner, Willie McCovey
2B Frankie Frisch
SS Travis Jackson, George Davis
3B Matt Williams
RF Mel Ott, Mike Tiernan
CF Willie Mays, George Van Haltren
LF Barry Bonds, George Burns

SP-R Christy Mathewson, SP-L Carl Hubbell, SP-Juan Marichal, SP-R Gaylord Perry, SP-R Timithy Keefe, SP-R Mickey Welch, SP-R Amos Rusie, SP-R Joe McGinnity

RP Gary Lavelle

Reds

C Johnny Bench. Ernie Lombardi
1B Tony Perez, Frank McCormick, Ted Kluszewski
2B Bid McPhee, Joe Morgan
SS Barry Larkin, Dave concepcion
3B Pete Rose
RF Frank Robinson
CF Edd Rousch
LF George Foster

SP-R Tony Mullane, SP-L Eppa Rixey, SP-R Paul Derrenger, SP-R Bucky Walters, SP-R Dolf Luque, SP-L Noodles Hahn

RP Clay Carroll

[RuthMayBond]

I would like to create a roster for the video game MLB The Show on PS3 that replaces the teams' current rosters with all-time teams for each franchise. For example, the Yanks would have Berra, Gehrig, Gordon, Jeter, A-Rod, Why the crap do the Yank$ get ARod? Do they get Clemens, Henderson, Boggs, Sheffield, Raines, and Sabathia too?

[White Knight]

Why the crap do the Yank$ get ARod? Do they get Clemens, Henderson, Boggs, Sheffield, Raines, and Sabathia too?

I think we should keep it to players who played 8+ years with that team. So one day we can pick A-Rod, just not yet.

[Pghfan987]

Why the crap do the Yank$ get ARod? Do they get Clemens, Henderson, Boggs, Sheffield, Raines, and Sabathia too?


??? A-Rod has played 790 games with the Mariners, 485 games with the Rangers, and 767 games with the Yankees. If he left the Yankees this offseason for another team I would put him on the M's, but it looks like he is going to end up playing a lot more games in a Yankees uniform.

[HDH]

C Joe Torre
1B Harry Stovey (Other teams defunct), Fred Tenney
2B Bobby Lowe
SS Herman Long, Rabbit Maranville
3B Eddie Mathews, Chipper Jones, Jimmy Collins
RF Hank Aaron
CF Dale Murphy, Wally Berger
LF Hugh Duffy

SP-L Warren Spahn, SP-R Kid Nichols, SP-R Greg Maddox, SP-R John Clarkson, SP-R Ole Hoss Radburn, SP-R Phil Niekro, SP-L Tom Glavine, SP-R Lew Burdette

RP John Smotz

[Pghfan987]

What team should Fred McGriff be on? He didn't play more than 5 year for any team, but I want players like that to be on some roster. Maybe the Blue Jays?

[HDH]

A's
C Mickey Cochrane
1B Jimmy Foxx, Stuffy McInnis
2B Eddie Collins
SS Miguel Tejada
3B Frank Baker
RF Wally Moses, Reggie Jackson
CF Al Simmons
LF Rickey Henderson

SP-L Lefty Grove, SP-L Eddie Plank, SP-R Catfish Hunter, SP-R Chief Bender, SP-L Rube Waddell, SP-L Vida Blue, SP-R Dave Stuart, SP-L Rube Waldburg, SP-R George Earnshaw, SP-R Eddie Rommel, SP-R Bullet Joe Bush, SP-R Jack Coombs

RP Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley


Pirates

C Jason Kendall
1B Jake Stenzel, Willie Stargell
2B Bill Mazerowski
SS Honus Wagner
3B Pie Traynor
RF Roberto Clemente, Paul Waner
CF Max Carey, Lloyd Waner
LF Fred Clarke, Ralph Kiner

SP-R Deacon Phillippe, SP-R Pud Galvin, SP-R Wilbur Cooper, SP-L Jesse Tannehill SP-R Sam Leever

RP Roy Face, Kent Tekulve, Dave Guisti

Cardinals

C Ted Simmons, Walker Cooper
1B Albert Pujols, Jim Bottomley, Johnny Mize
2B Rogers Hornsby, Red Schoendienst
SS Ozzie Smith, Marty Marion
3B Ken Boyer, Arlie Latham
RF Stan Musial, Enos Slaughter
CF Jim Edmunds, Curt Flood
LF Lou Brock, Ducky Medwick, Chick Hafey, Tip O'Neil, Jesse Burkett

SP-R Bob Gibson, SP-R Dizzy Dean, SP-R Mort Cooper, SP-L Slim Sallee, SP-R Jesse Haines

RP Todd Worrell, Jason Isringhausen, Al Hrabosky, Lindy McDaniel

[STLCards2]

Cardinals

C Ted Simmons, Walker Cooper
1B Albert Pujols, Jim Bottomley
2B Rogers Hornsby, Red Schoendienst
SS Ozzie Smith, Marty Marion
3B Clete Boyer, Arlie Latham
RF Stan Musial, Enos Slaughter
CF Jim Edmunds, Curt Flood
LF Lou Brock, Ducky Medwick, Chick Hafey, Tip O'Neil, Jesse Burkett

SP-R Bob Gibson, SP-R Dizzy Dean, SP-R Mort Cooper, SP-L Slim Sallee, SP-R Jesse Haines

RP Jason Isringhausen, Al Hrabosky, Lindy McDaniel

Are you sticking with the 8 years thing? I wouldn't personally, but this list makes more sense if you are. Sorry if you posted a time requirement already and missed it. If not...

Does Joe Torre meet the criteria for catcher?
Bottomley and no Mize?
I think you mean Ken Boyer. Latham over Rolen?
Sallee over Brecheen?
Hrabosky and McDaniel over Sutter or Worrell, or Smith?

[CTaka]

[QUOTE=HDH;1398065]A's
C Mickey Cochrane
1B Jimmy Foxx, Stuffy McInnis
2B Jimmy Collins
SS Miguel Tejada
3B Frank Baker
RF Wally Moses, Reggie Jackson
CF Al Simmons
LF Rickey Henderson

SP-L Lefty Grove, SP-L Eddie Plank, SP-R Catfish Hunter, SP-R Chief Bender, SP-L Rube Waddell, SP-L Vida Blue, SP-R Dave Stuart, SP-L Rube Waldburg, SP-R George Earnshaw, SP-R Eddie Rommel, SP-R Bullet Joe Bush, SP-R Jack Coombs

RP Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley


I think you mean Eddie Collins at 2B. Jimmy was a 3B.

I'm not sure if the order you listed them indicates that the first name is the starter, but if so, then Reggie should definitely be starting in RF over Wally Moses.

[CTaka]

Giants

C Buck Ewing, Roger Bresnahan
1B Bill Terry, Roger Conner, Willie McCovey
2B Frankie Frisch
SS Travis Jackson, George Davis
3B Matt Williams
RF Mel Ott, Mike Tiernan
CF Willie Mays, George Van Haltren
LF Barry Bonds, George Burns

SP-R Christy Mathewson, SP-L Carl Hubbell, SP-Juan Marichal, SP-R Gaylord Perry, SP-R Timithy Keefe, SP-R Mickey Welch, SP-R Amos Rusie, SP-R Joe McGinnity

RP Gary Lavelle



Same question that I asked earlier: why Frisch at 2B over Kent? I posted that even though Frisch played more games for the Cards than the Giants, I'm still not sure about taking Frisch over Kent. Granted, Frankie gives you a big advantage defensively and on the bases. But I'm inclined to take Kent's offensive edge. Overall, Frisch recorded 150 Win Shares during his 8 seasons (1,000 games) with the Giants. Kent only played 6 seasons (900 games) for the Giants yet recorded more total Win Shares (163) than the Fordham Flash. On a per game, per year, or total basis, Kent has the Win Shares advantage as a Giant over Frisch.

I'd also take Robb Nen as a closer over Gary Lavelle. Nen in 1998 and 2000 was clearly better than any year Lavelle ever had.

[dgarza]

Arizona Diamondbacks

C - Damian Miller or Chris Snyder
1 - Greg Colbrunn
2 - Orlando Hudson
SS - Stephen Drew
3 - Matt Williams
RF - Danny Bautista
CF - Steve Finley
LF - Luis Gonzalez
SP - Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling, or Brandon Webb
CL - Jose Valverde

[leecemark]

??? A-Rod has played 790 games with the Mariners, 485 games with the Rangers, and 767 games with the Yankees. If he left the Yankees this offseason for another team I would put him on the M's, but it looks like he is going to end up playing a lot more games in a Yankees uniform.

--Depends what you are trying to achieve. If you want any kind of competition in this league the Yankees have to lose every close call on players. They have had so many great players over their history that they would blow the competition away if you assign them all - or most of them - to the Yankees. I've set up similar projects and give everybody who qualifies elesewhere to that other team. The Yankess still end up a great team even with players that logically belong only on their roster.

[yanks0714]

Same question that I asked earlier: why Frisch at 2B over Kent? I posted that even though Frisch played more games for the Cards than the Giants, I'm still not sure about taking Frisch over Kent. Granted, Frankie gives you a big advantage defensively and on the bases. But I'm inclined to take Kent's offensive edge. Overall, Frisch recorded 150 Win Shares during his 8 seasons (1,000 games) with the Giants. Kent only played 6 seasons (900 games) for the Giants yet recorded more total Win Shares (163) than the Fordham Flash. On a per game, per year, or total basis, Kent has the Win Shares advantage as a Giant over Frisch.

I'd also take Robb Nen as a closer over Gary Lavelle. Nen in 1998 and 2000 was clearly better than any year Lavelle ever had.

In a simulated league it depends on what you are looking for. Frisch at 2B over Kent makes sense because the Giants All-Time team doesn't need Kent's bat to score runs. With Mays, Ott, Bonds, McCovey, Cepeda, Terry, Irvin, Davis, Matt Williams/Darrell Evens, and company on that team. Barry Bonds, Mays, and Ott is the best NL OF and compares reasonably well to the Yankees Ruth, DiMaggio, and Mantle threesome. Plus, Frisch was no slouch offensively himself for that matter.
I generally start Frisch at 2B with Kent as backup, getting quite a few AB's as backup.

[dgarza]

Tampa Bay Devil/Rays

C - Toby Hall
1 - Fred McGriff
2 - Miguel Cairo
SS - Julio Lugo
3 - Russ Johnson or Wade Boggs
RF - Ben Grieve
CF - BJ Upton
LF - Carl Crawford
DH - Jonny Gomes
SP - Scott Kazmir
CL - Roberto Hernendez

[dgarza]

A pretty solid team here....

Cleveland Spiders

C - Chief Zimmer
1 - Jake Virtue or Patsy Tebeau
2 - Cupid Childs
SS - Ed McKean
3 - Bobby Wallace
RF - Harry Blake
CF - George Davis
LF - Jesse Burkett
SP - Cy Young

[RuthMayBond]

Glad someone remembers Jon Matlack. Frustrating, but brilliant at times. Victim of Offensive Met Offenses of the early Mid 70'sWhere would Al Leiter fit on that list?

[RuthMayBond]

I suppose that would give the defunct Orioles
SP-SMcMahon, MKilroy
C-WRobinson
3B-JMcGraw
SS-HJennings
LF-JKelley
RF-WKeeler
not half bad

[HDH]

Are you sticking with the 8 years thing? I wouldn't personally, but this list makes more sense if you are. Sorry if you posted a time requirement already and missed it. If not...

Does Joe Torre meet the criteria for catcher?
Bottomley and no Mize?
I think you mean Ken Boyer. Latham over Rolen?
Sallee over Brecheen?
Hrabosky and McDaniel over Sutter or Worrell, or Smith?

I corrected the "Eddie" Collins and "Ken" Boyer error. The only player I dislike so much, I want to "dis" him. Reggie was too one dimensional for my taste... He can DH. He's on the bench however.

I think Frankie Frisch is better than Jeff Kent. Mize is so split up between NYG and Cards, he's not great on either team in comparison I origianally had Worrell as a Dodger but, he should be a Card instead.

I like Sallee and Latham here.

Torre is a Brave; Sutter and Smith are Cubs; Nen is a Marlin.

[CTaka]

In a simulated league it depends on what you are looking for. Frisch at 2B over Kent makes sense because the Giants All-Time team doesn't need Kent's bat to score runs. With Mays, Ott, Bonds, McCovey, Cepeda, Terry, Irvin, Davis, Matt Williams/Darrell Evens, and company on that team. Barry Bonds, Mays, and Ott is the best NL OF and compares reasonably well to the Yankees Ruth, DiMaggio, and Mantle threesome. Plus, Frisch was no slouch offensively himself for that matter.
I generally start Frisch at 2B with Kent as backup, getting quite a few AB's as backup.

In a sim league, I still think the lineup would be stronger with Kent. I'd have Davis lead off. In his 9 years as a Giant, his OBP averaged .391, or 10.8% better than league average. In Frisch's 8 years as a Giant, his .354 OBP, only 2.9% better than league average. So Davis would bat leadoff for me on this sim team. Then if you string Bonds, Mays, McCovey, Ott, Kent, Ewing and Williams, I think that lineup wins more games than one with Frisch instead of Kent. Davis, Bonds and Mays provides speed at the top of the lineup, making Frisch's baserunning less of a factor for this team. Frisch could come in as a late inning defensive replacement, but I don't see a reason to start him over Kent.

[HDH]

C Mike Piazza, Roy Campanella, Russell Martin
1B Gil Hodges, Steve Garvey, Jake Daubert, Dan Brouthers (Played on mostly defunct teams)
2B Jackie Robinson, Davey Lopes
SS Maurey Wills, Bill Russell, Pee Wee Reese
3B Ron Cey, George Pinkney
RF Willie Keeler, Carl Furrillo, Babe Herman
CF Duke Snider, Mike Griffin
LF Zach Wheat

SP-L Sandy Koufax, SP-R Don Drysdale, SP-R Dazzy Vance, SP-R Burleigh Grimes, SP-R Don Sutton, SP-R Brickyard Kennedy SP-L Claude Osteen, SP-L Fernando Valenzuela

RP Greg Gagne, Jim Brewer, Mike Marshall, Takashi Saito, Jay Howell, Jeff Shaw

[HDH]

C Rick Dempsey, Rick Ferrell, Gus Triandos
1B George Sisler, Eddie Murray, Boog Powell
2B Ski Mellilo
SS Cal Ripken, Bobby Wallace
3B Brooks Robinson, Harland Clift
RF Jack Tobin
CF Baby Doll Jacobson, Sam West
LF Ken Williams

SP-R Jim Palmer, SP-L Dave McNally, SP-R Urban Shocker, SP-L Mike Cuellar, SP-R Jack Powell, SP-L Mike Flanagan, SP-L Scott McGregor, SP-R Mike Mussina

RP-Tippy Martinez, Stu Miller, Gregg Olsen, Eddie Watt

[mwiggins]

In a sim league, I still think the lineup would be stronger with Kent. I'd have Davis lead off. In his 9 years as a Giant, his OBP averaged .391, or 10.8% better than league average. In Frisch's 8 years as a Giant, his .354 OBP, only 2.9% better than league average. So Davis would bat leadoff for me on this sim team. Then if you string Bonds, Mays, McCovey, Ott, Kent, Ewing and Williams, I think that lineup wins more games than one with Frisch instead of Kent. Davis, Bonds and Mays provides speed at the top of the lineup, making Frisch's baserunning less of a factor for this team. Frisch could come in as a late inning defensive replacement, but I don't see a reason to start him over Kent.

I usually go with Frisch over Kent, but I was curious to I simmed a season using both lineups in DiamondMind. One with Kent at 2B, the other with Frisch.

With Kent

Giants went 97-65. 819 runs scored, 671 runs allowed.
Kent - .775 OPS, 84.9 Runs Created, .980 FP, 1.96 PO/Game, 2.90 Assists/Game, 3 SB's

With Frisch

Giants went 101-61. 822 runs scored. 664 runs allowed
Frisch - .756 OPS, 77.3 Runs Created, .979 FP, 1.91 PO/Game, 3.16 Assists/Game, 11 SB's

Either way, they had the best record in baseball.

[HDH]

I suppose that would give the defunct Orioles
SP-SMcMahon, MKilroy
C-WRobinson
3B-JMcGraw
SS-HJennings
LF-JKelley
RF-WKeeler
not half bad

Don't forget CF Steve Brodie and that 1B Dan Brouthers played one year with this team too.

[Victory Faust]

I have made all-time all-star teams on both my MLB The Show and MVP 2005, although I reached my limit on the number of players I can create on MVP.

My Detroit Tiger lineup:

CF: Cobb
2B: Gehringer
LF: Crawford
1B: Greenberg
DH: Heilmann
RF: Kaline
C: Cochrane
3B: Kell
SS: Trammell

Rotation: George Mullin, Mickey Lolich, Hal Newhouser, Jack Morris, Tommy Bridges

Bullpen: John Hiller, Schoolboy Rowe, Wild Bill Donovan, Willie Hernandez, Frank Lary (I know I'm using starters but I picked guys who I think would make good relievers)


BTW, I designate the KC Royals as my Negro League team, since Kansas City often is considered the center of Negro League baseball (and the museum is based there). That snubs guys like Geo. Brett, but oh well -- it's my game, and I'll do what I want!!!!

[yanks0714]

I have made all-time all-star teams on both my MLB The Show and MVP 2005, although I reached my limit on the number of players I can create on MVP.

My Detroit Tiger lineup:

CF: Cobb
2B: Gehringer
LF: Crawford
1B: Greenberg
DH: Heilmann
RF: Kaline
C: Cochrane
3B: Kell
SS: Trammell

Rotation: George Mullin, Mickey Lolich, Hal Newhouser, Jack Morris, Tommy Bridges

Bullpen: John Hiller, Schoolboy Rowe, Wild Bill Donovan, Willie Hernandez, Frank Lary (I know I'm using starters but I picked guys who I think would make good relievers)


BTW, I designate the KC Royals as my Negro League team, since Kansas City often is considered the center of Negro League baseball (and the museum is based there). That snubs guys like Geo. Brett, but oh well -- it's my game, and I'll do what I want!!!!

Isn't Mickey Cochrane more of an Athletic than Tiger? I use Bill Freehan as the Tiger catcher. Lance Parrish backs him up. Might want to take a gander at Johnny Bassler too. I use him and Charlie Bennett as catchers for pre-1920 simulation. That's a good tandem.

[BigRon]

Sorry if I sound like I'm being picky, but some of you guys are putting players where you appear to want them, not where they played.

For the Pirates, someone had Paul Waner in LF, although he played his entire career in RF. I imagine that is so he could avoid choosing between Waner and Clemente. To me, that's cheating a little. No doubt Waner would have been a superb LFer, but that's not reality. It would be more interesting to follow reality and choose between 2 great players.

Same thing with the Reds. Someone listed Vada Pinson in left field, although he played CF.

Several more examples I won't mention.

I guess it all depends on how realistic you want to be.

[Paul Wendt]

I suppose that would give the defunct Orioles
SP-SMcMahon, MKilroy
C-WRobinson
3B-JMcGraw
SS-HJennings
LF-JKelley
RF-WKeeler
not half bad
1887-89 CF Mike Griffin belongs in one of the gaping holes.

1B Tommy Tucker from that time may also win a spot.

Pitcher was a revolving door.

[Domenic]

Now starting for the Mets:

C Gary Carter
1B Keith Hernandez
2B Ron Hunt
3B David Wright
SS Jose Reyes
LF Mike Piazza
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Darryl Strawberry
P Tom Seaver

Piazza's bat needs to be in the lineup somehow.

Carter played 137 games in the OF in his career, and looked to have been an average defender out there - I would probably feel more comfortable with him out there and Piazza behind the plate.

[RuthMayBond]

1887-89 CF Mike Griffin belongs in one of the gaping holes.

1B Tommy Tucker from that time may also win a spot.
I was hoping to do better than three-year guys

[parlo]

Like this Met grouping over Mongoose's.

Might have to go with Piazza behind plate though if we are looking at Carter's Met only career. Just too good offensively.

Alfonso over Run Hunt is a slam dunk.

Glad someone remembers Jon Matlack. Frustrating, but brilliant at times. Victim of Offensive Met Offenses of the early Mid 70's
I read this about Matlack recently.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/11/29/2008-11-29_where_are_they_now_exmet_jon_matlack_can.html

[CTaka]

I was hoping to do better than three-year guys


I think that version of the franchise was only in existence for 18 years (1882-1899). It looks like only Tucker and Stearns were the regulars for the longest time at 1B (3 years) and of the two, Tucker was clearly better. Heck, given the short tenure of people eligible for this team, you might as well take Dan Brouthers who only played 1 year and figure the balance of his career easily outweighs the other candidates.

It doesn't seem that the normal years of tenure works for a franchise with such a short history.