Guys Helping Their HOF Cases in 2008

[Fuzzy Bear]

My list of guys who have HELPED their HOF cases in 2008

Roy Halliday: Halliday won 20 games for the second time. He's up to 131-66 lifetime. He was selected for the ASG, and while he didn't win the Cy Young, he already has one award (2003)

Black Ink: Pitching - 24 (74) (Average HOFer ≈ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 113 (171) (Average HOFer ≈ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 31.0 (133) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 70.0 (164) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

It's unlikely that Halliday would make the HOF if he blew out his pitching arm this upcoming spring. Still, the HOF monitor puts him at 70 points, which is the bottom of the HOF gray area. Most guys who have done what Halliday has done don't get near the HOF, but a few have. What Halliday did this year was solidify his credentials regarding the core of his career. Halliday's 2008 season ensures that no one will question whether or not his peak was great enough.

Dustin Pedroia: Look below:

Black Ink: Batting - 8 (272) (Average HOFer ≈ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 18 (1051) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 21.0 (575) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 49.0 (375) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

Normally, I wouldn't even think of putting Pedroia on a list like this, but how many guys are at 49.0 on the HOF monitor after their 2nd year in the big leagues. But Pedroia is a rare bird; he's won an ROY and an MVP; that's the kind of thing HOFers do. He won a Gold Glove, and he played in his 1st ASG this year. Pedroia had the kind of year that, coupled with his rookie year, could propel him to the HOF even if the rest of his career is a bit disappointing. I can't think of many guys who made as fast a start as Pedroia has made NOT making the HOF eventually (although there are certainly some).

Chipper Jones: Jones moved into the area to where he is a certain HOFer this year. There were some folks that questioned whether he would be overlooked; he's now silenced the critics, IMO. He won a batting title, pushed his BA to .310 (almost ensuring he'll be over .300 for his career), hit his 400th HR (he finished at 408), and made the All-Star team for the first time since 2001. Jones would be a HOFer if he retired tomorrow; maybe not on the first ballot, but he'd be elected by the writers, probably within the first 5 years. His big year also helps his image as finishing his career strong. Jones' biggest liability in terms of the HOF was the perception that he was fading; he's countered that enough to where that perception won't be working against him.

Brandon Webb: Webb won 22 games, getting the "never won 20" albatross off his back. He could have won a 2nd Cy Young Award this year, and I'm not convinced that Lincecum deserved the award any more than Webb did. Webb is moving into the area where he is going to succeed Johan Santana as being considered the best pitcher in baseball, and this year was a step forward.

Jamie Moyer: Moyer won 16 games, pushng his career record to 246-185. He's already won 20 games twice. There are many who can't see Moyer as a HOFer no matter what he does, and his career ERA is not impressive. But he's pushed himself into the discussion to where his credentials will have to be addressed. No matter what he does from here on out, Moyer will be in the HOF discussion, and he may well make it.

[philipthegreat]

While Mike Mussina shouldn't have needed that 20 win season to be a lock for the HOF, 2008 destroyed any rational arguement for him not being in the Hall of Fame.

[philipthegreat]

My list of guys who have HELPED their HOF cases in 2008

Roy Halliday: Halliday won 20 games for the second time. He's up to 131-66 lifetime. He was selected for the ASG, and while he didn't win the Cy Young, he already has one award (2003)

Black Ink: Pitching - 24 (74) (Average HOFer ≈ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 113 (171) (Average HOFer ≈ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 31.0 (133) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 70.0 (164) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

It's unlikely that Halliday would make the HOF if he blew out his pitching arm this upcoming spring. Still, the HOF monitor puts him at 70 points, which is the bottom of the HOF gray area. Most guys who have done what Halliday has done don't get near the HOF, but a few have. What Halliday did this year was solidify his credentials regarding the core of his career. Halliday's 2008 season ensures that no one will question whether or not his peak was great enough.

Dustin Pedroia: Look below:

Black Ink: Batting - 8 (272) (Average HOFer ≈ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 18 (1051) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 21.0 (575) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 49.0 (375) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

Normally, I wouldn't even think of putting Pedroia on a list like this, but how many guys are at 49.0 on the HOF monitor after their 2nd year in the big leagues. But Pedroia is a rare bird; he's won an ROY and an MVP; that's the kind of thing HOFers do. He won a Gold Glove, and he played in his 1st ASG this year. Pedroia had the kind of year that, coupled with his rookie year, could propel him to the HOF even if the rest of his career is a bit disappointing. I can't think of many guys who made as fast a start as Pedroia has made NOT making the HOF eventually (although there are certainly some).

Chipper Jones: Jones moved into the area to where he is a certain HOFer this year. There were some folks that questioned whether he would be overlooked; he's now silenced the critics, IMO. He won a batting title, pushed his BA to .310 (almost ensuring he'll be over .300 for his career), hit his 400th HR (he finished at 408), and made the All-Star team for the first time since 2001. Jones would be a HOFer if he retired tomorrow; maybe not on the first ballot, but he'd be elected by the writers, probably within the first 5 years. His big year also helps his image as finishing his career strong. Jones' biggest liability in terms of the HOF was the perception that he was fading; he's countered that enough to where that perception won't be working against him.

Brandon Webb: Webb won 22 games, getting the "never won 20" albatross off his back. He could have won a 2nd Cy Young Award this year, and I'm not convinced that Lincecum deserved the award any more than Webb did. Webb is moving into the area where he is going to succeed Johan Santana as being considered the best pitcher in baseball, and this year was a step forward.

Jamie Moyer: Moyer won 16 games, pushng his career record to 246-185. He's already won 20 games twice. There are many who can't see Moyer as a HOFer no matter what he does, and his career ERA is not impressive. But he's pushed himself into the discussion to where his credentials will have to be addressed. No matter what he does from here on out, Moyer will be in the HOF discussion, and he may well make it.

You neglected to mention Johnny Damon, who this season gave the Yankees a reason to be put in the starting lineup.

[STLCards2]

Of older guys, Mussina probably had the best HOF boost season, with Chipper right behind - even though I bet Chipper would have made it anyway. Delgado's 2nd half durge helped, even though I bet he would still be out if he retired. Jim Edmonds edged closer to percieved bordeline status by compiling more numbers.

Seems silly to list younger guys since any that had good years technically improved their chances.

[Allie Fox]

Dustin Pedroia: Look below:

Black Ink: Batting - 8 (272) (Average HOFer ≈ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 18 (1051) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 21.0 (575) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 49.0 (375) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

Normally, I wouldn't even think of putting Pedroia on a list like this, but how many guys are at 49.0 on the HOF monitor after their 2nd year in the big leagues. But Pedroia is a rare bird; he's won an ROY and an MVP; that's the kind of thing HOFers do. He won a Gold Glove, and he played in his 1st ASG this year. Pedroia had the kind of year that, coupled with his rookie year, could propel him to the HOF even if the rest of his career is a bit disappointing. I can't think of many guys who made as fast a start as Pedroia has made NOT making the HOF eventually (although there are certainly some).


Fred Lynn did all of those things in his FIRST full season. Be wary. He's got a long time to go.

[DoubleX]

[B]Dustin Pedroia

I can't think of many guys who made as fast a start as Pedroia has made NOT making the HOF eventually (although there are certainly some).

Another former Red Sox phenom came right to mind - Fred Lynn. Other names that followed included Dwight Gooden, Fernando Valenzuela, and Vida Blue. There are also multiple major award winners like Bret Saberhagen, Denny McClain, Roger Maris, Dale Murphy, and likely Juan Gonzalez, who are standing on the outside. Pedroia is off to a great start, but he still has a very long way to go.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

We already had this exact same thread la couple months back, so i may sound repetitive:

Mike Mussina - Easily did the most for his HOF chances than anybody in baseball. He went from being a borderline guy to a sure thing this past season. Firstly, he won 20 games for the first time in his career - for a non-playoff team. He also showed what a phenomenal pitcher he was by pitching at such a high level with declining stuff. You have to be a great player to pull that off late in your career. He also retired on top, leaving the game on a high after subpar seasons in 3 of the previous 4 years. He edged his career win total solidly in the upper 200's range, which could be important. A lot of people feel that Mussina was a HOF lock before this past season transpired, but I disagree; especially since there at least 4 pitchers superior to Mussina who would be eligible to be inducted around the time he eventually retired (Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Johnson). Without this past season on his resume, and especially if he hurled another substandard campaign, I feel the odds were high that Mussina could have become overlooked and become this generations version of Bert Blyleven.

Johnny Damon - Put together another high quality season in which he was the 4th best leadoff hitter in baseball. Tacked on another 160 odd hits getting him closer to 3000 (730 away). Not only did he preform well, but statistically had onr of his best seasons. Still looks like he has a lot left in the tank.

Carlos Delgado

Ichiro Suzuki - Subpar year offensively but another year of ML service is whats important here. Doesn't even matter how he preforms from this point on. Just needs 10 years service to be inducted.

[Fuzzy Bear]

We already had this exact same thread la couple months back, so i may sound repetitive:

Mike Mussina - Easily did the most for his HOF chances than anybody in baseball. He went from being a borderline guy to a sure thing this past season. Firstly, he won 20 games for the first time in his career - for a non-playoff team. He also showed what a phenomenal pitcher he was by pitching at such a high level with declining stuff. You have to be a great player to pull that off late in your career. He also retired on top, leaving the game on a high after subpar seasons in 3 of the previous 4 years. He edged his career win total solidly in the upper 200's range, which could be important. A lot of people feel that Mussina was a HOF lock before this past season transpired, but I disagree; especially since there at least 4 pitchers superior to Mussina who would be eligible to be inducted around the time he eventually retired (Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Johnson). Without this past season on his resume, and especially if he hurled another substandard campaign, I feel the odds were high that Mussina could have become overlooked and become this generations version of Bert Blyleven.

Johnny Damon - Put together another high quality season in which he was the 4th best leadoff hitter in baseball. Tacked on another 160 odd hits getting him closer to 3000 (730 away). Not only did he preform well, but statistically had onr of his best seasons. Still looks like he has a lot left in the tank.

Carlos Delgado

Ichiro Suzuki - Subpar year offensively but another year of ML service is whats important here. Doesn't even matter how he preforms from this point on. Just needs 10 years service to be inducted.


I certainly agree with all of these guys. I was getting tired, and couldn't think of all of them.

I had come around to think that Mussina was a sure pick BEFORE he won 20, but the big season he had, plus retiring on top, makes him a shoo-in. I believe that the HOF voters have a bias in favor of guys that finish strong, and Mussina certainly played into that.

Ichiro is a first ballot pick. His lifetime BA, the hit record, his novelty, his MVP, make him so. The fact that Ichiro now plays CF is a BIG plus in his HOF push.

[Bravesfan1984]

wow I knew Dustin Pedroia was doing good but I never looked close to see how good he is doing. He is defintly on a HOF pace. Defintly an underrated player.

[Fuzzy Bear]

wow I knew Dustin Pedroia was doing good but I never looked close to see how good he is doing. He is defintly on a HOF pace. Defintly an underrated player.

Pedroia could actually lose points on the monitor if he plays 8 seasons, and his lifetime BA drops below .300; the HOF monitor isn't a totally cumulative stat. There are ways to go backward. But 49 points in 2 years is pretty impressive. I wonder if even Fred Lynn did as well in his first two years.

[SavoyBG]

While Mike Mussina shouldn't have needed that 20 win season to be a lock for the HOF, 2008 destroyed any rational arguement for him not being in the Hall of Fame.


Mike's got almost no chance to make the hall. These writers won't vote for a guy who never won a Cy Young or never led his league in ERA or strikeouts unless he wins 300 games or is a huge post season hero. I don't think he'll come close to getting elected, even though he probably deserves to be.

There are only a few hall voters who have a clue what ERA+ is, and they won't be real impressed with his 3.68 ERA.

[SavoyBG]

Ichiro Suzuki - Subpar year offensively but another year of ML service is whats important here. Doesn't even matter how he preforms from this point on. Just needs 10 years service to be inducted.

Yeah, he'll probably get in, but he's vastly overrated. A career OPS+ of 117 for any outfielder is not hall of fame level. Check out his comps:

Ralph Garr (899)
Jo-Jo Moore (892)
Ginger Beaumont (890)
Mickey Rivers (886)
Ross Youngs (885) *
Chick Stahl (878)
Pete Fox (876)
Jack Tobin (874)
Matty Alou (866)
Pete Browning (865)

[jalbright]

Yeah, he'll probably get in, but he's vastly overrated. A career OPS+ of 117 for any outfielder is not hall of fame level. Check out his comps:

Ralph Garr (899)
Jo-Jo Moore (892)
Ginger Beaumont (890)
Mickey Rivers (886)
Ross Youngs (885) *
Chick Stahl (878)
Pete Fox (876)
Jack Tobin (874)
Matty Alou (866)
Pete Browning (865)

Just in terms of major league service, these guys are "comps". But how many of them won seven Japanese batting titles before being the first star hitter from Japan to come over and prove that yes, Japanese hitters can be successful at a major league level? Maybe those things don't count on an express level in BBWAA voting, but I'm sure a good number of the writers are a) aware of these facts, and b) more importantly, willing to give him some credit for them. Those things move Ichiro significantly above this group.

[philipthegreat]

Mike's got almost no chance to make the hall. These writers won't vote for a guy who never won a Cy Young or never led his league in ERA or strikeouts unless he wins 300 games or is a huge post season hero. I don't think he'll come close to getting elected, even though he probably deserves to be.

There are only a few hall voters who have a clue what ERA+ is, and they won't be real impressed with his 3.68 ERA.

I'm fairly certain that the writers will understand what a 3.68 ERA means in the post 1993 era of baseball.

[SavoyBG]

I'm fairly certain that the writers will understand what a 3.68 ERA means in the post 1993 era of baseball.

Gonna be interesting to see. The writers did not put Grimes in. Burleigh only got one vote in each of his first three seasons of eligibility. The best he did with the writers was 92 votes (34%) in 1960.

[SavoyBG]

Just in terms of major league service, these guys are "comps". But how many of them won seven Japanese batting titles before being the first star hitter from Japan to come over and prove that yes, Japanese hitters can be successful at a major league level? Maybe those things don't count on an express level in BBWAA voting, but I'm sure a good number of the writers are a) aware of these facts, and b) more importantly, willing to give him some credit for them. Those things move Ichiro significantly above this group.

I'll agree that he's gonna get in, but I'm saying that he's not really all that great of a player.

[leecemark]

--I suppose that depends on your definition of greatness. Ichiro has some flaws in his game. His free swinging ways and more importantly his lack of power keep him from matching the vlalue of the really elite rightfielders. He is the best - or very close to it - in the game in several areas though.
--He has been the best hitter for average and arguably best baserunner and defensive outfielder (best corner outfielder for sure) over the course of his career. That may not have quite the value of a real masher, but it is a kind of greatness. He is very fun to watch and people are going to remember him long after he is done. He will make the Hall of Fame and I think deservedly so.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

--I suppose that depends on your definition of greatness. Ichiro has some flaws in his game. His free swinging ways and more importantly his lack of power keep him from matching the vlalue of the really elite rightfielders. He is the best - or very close to it - in the game in several areas though.
--He has been the best hitter for average and arguably best baserunner and defensive outfielder (best corner outfielder for sure) over the course of his career. That may not have quite the value of a real masher, but it is a kind of greatness. He is very fun to watch and people are going to remember him long after he is done. He will make the Hall of Fame and I think deservedly so.

I don't think it's 'arguable' whatsoever that Ichiro was the best defensive right fielder in baseball the last 8 years. He was hands-down the best and perhaps one on the best fielders ALL-TIME at his position; right up there with the Clementes and Kaline in right. Phenomenal range, exceptional speed and a laser arm make him so. People should not discount what an asset the man is in the field. He's a perfect 8 for 8 in GG's since his ascension into MLB.

I have no doubt whatsoever that Ichiro could have been as good as Willie Mays or Devon White in CF had he played there originally. Yes, Devon White was the best defensive CF I ever saw.

So, giving Ichiro credit for his seven batting titles in Japan, over 3000 hits in professional baseball, his defensive brilliance, an MVP award and ROY in the same season & the stolen bases, he's as much of a shoo-in into the Hall as Greg Maddux after he plays 10 years.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Mike's got almost no chance to make the hall. These writers won't vote for a guy who never won a Cy Young or never led his league in ERA or strikeouts unless he wins 300 games or is a huge post season hero. I don't think he'll come close to getting elected, even though he probably deserves to be.

There are only a few hall voters who have a clue what ERA+ is, and they won't be real impressed with his 3.68 ERA.

Black Ink: Pitching - 15 (141) (Average HOFer ≈ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 244 (23) (Average HOFer ≈ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 54.0 (28) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 121.0 (67) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

Compare Stats
Juan Marichal (866) *
David Wells (863)
Curt Schilling (860)
Jim Palmer (855) *
Carl Hubbell (855) *
Kevin Brown (844)
Jack Morris (838)
Clark Griffith (831) *
Jim Bunning (826) *
Andy Pettitte (824)

Won-Loss %
1992 AL-.783-1
1993 AL-.700-7
1994 AL-.762-6
1996 AL-.633-8
1999 AL-.720-3
2006 AL-.682-6
2008 AL-.690-9
Act-.638-8
Car-.638-38

Bases on Balls/9IP
1992 AL-1.79-2
1993 AL-2.36-6
1994 AL-2.14-6
1995 AL-2.03-1
1996 AL-2.55-8
1997 AL-2.16-6
1998 AL-1.79-4
1999 AL-2.30-5
2000 AL-1.74-3
2001 AL-1.65-2
2002 AL-2.00-9
2003 AL-1.68-4
2004 AL-2.19-8
2006 AL-1.60-3
2008 AL-1.39-2
Act-1.98-6
Car-1.98-86

BB + H per IP (WHIP)
1992 AL-1.079-2
1993 AL-1.235-10
1994 AL-1.163-4
1995 AL-1.069-2
1997 AL-1.117-3
1998 AL-1.115-4
1999 AL-1.274-5
2000 AL-1.187-2
2001 AL-1.067-2
2003 AL-1.081-4
2006 AL-1.110-3
2008 AL-1.223-10
Act-1.192-9

Mussina would need 300 wins only if he never won 20; in fact, given his winning percentage, his ERA vs. league, and where he stood vs. his contemporaries in terms of victories per season, I fail to see the argument to keep him out.

I think the HOF monitor shorts Mussina because of the bonuses it gives for 20 wins, coupled with the lower win totals. Mussina missed a 20 win season because of the strike, but he pitched in an era of lower win totals for starters. (Sixteen (16) wins led the NL in 2006!)

Mussina also helped himself by fininshing strong. I can't emphasize how important that is. I see a clear bias on the writers in favor of players that end their careers strong. Mussina, in many ways, saved the best for last. Writers like that. He'll get in, and probably on the 1st ballot.

[SavoyBG]

Mussina also helped himself by fininshing strong. I can't emphasize how important that is. I see a clear bias on the writers in favor of players that end their careers strong. Mussina, in many ways, saved the best for last. Writers like that. He'll get in, and probably on the 1st ballot.


He's got ZERO chance of getting in on the first ballot.

Here are the only pitchers who have gotten in on the first ballot:

Walter Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Steve Carlton
Bob Feller
Bob Gibson
Sandy Koufax
Jim Palmer
Tom Seaver
Nolan Ryan
Warren Spahn
Dennis Eckersley

Lefty Grove, Carl Hubbell, Ferguson Jenkins, Gaylord Perry, Robin Roberts, and Whitey Ford did not get elected in their first year on the ballot, and Mussina certainly will not get elected in his first year on the ballot.

[mwiggins]

Joe Mauer

Still very early, but I think getting his first Gold Glove and his second batting titled are very important to his chances down the road. Even if he moves to 3B in a few years, he'll always have that "Gold Glove catcher" on his resume. And multiple batting titles will be important since there's a good chance he will never hit for a lot of power, and he'll probably struggle to reach 3,000 hits if he stays at catcher.

[CTaka]

--I suppose that depends on your definition of greatness. Ichiro has some flaws in his game. His free swinging ways and more importantly his lack of power keep him from matching the vlalue of the really elite rightfielders. He is the best - or very close to it - in the game in several areas though.
--He has been the best hitter for average and arguably best baserunner and defensive outfielder (best corner outfielder for sure) over the course of his career. That may not have quite the value of a real masher, but it is a kind of greatness. He is very fun to watch and people are going to remember him long after he is done. He will make the Hall of Fame and I think deservedly so.

I agree. Strictly from a sabermetric standpoint, Ichiro doesn't register as "great" from a hall standpoint. But I'm not at all convinced that the writers that vote consider this. Ichiro is arguably among the greatest baserunners and fielders of his era or any era. And if you are among the best in certain areas, the voters seem to reward this (isn't that right, Mr. Brock?).

[Bravesfan1984]

My list of guys who have HELPED their HOF cases in 2008

Roy Halliday: Halliday won 20 games for the second time. He's up to 131-66 lifetime. He was selected for the ASG, and while he didn't win the Cy Young, he already has one award (2003)

Black Ink: Pitching - 24 (74) (Average HOFer ≈ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 113 (171) (Average HOFer ≈ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 31.0 (133) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 70.0 (164) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

It's unlikely that Halliday would make the HOF if he blew out his pitching arm this upcoming spring. Still, the HOF monitor puts him at 70 points, which is the bottom of the HOF gray area. Most guys who have done what Halliday has done don't get near the HOF, but a few have. What Halliday did this year was solidify his credentials regarding the core of his career. Halliday's 2008 season ensures that no one will question whether or not his peak was great enough.

Dustin Pedroia: Look below:

Black Ink: Batting - 8 (272) (Average HOFer ≈ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 18 (1051) (Average HOFer ≈ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 21.0 (575) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 49.0 (375) (Likely HOFer > 100)
Overall Rank in parentheses.

Normally, I wouldn't even think of putting Pedroia on a list like this, but how many guys are at 49.0 on the HOF monitor after their 2nd year in the big leagues. But Pedroia is a rare bird; he's won an ROY and an MVP; that's the kind of thing HOFers do. He won a Gold Glove, and he played in his 1st ASG this year. Pedroia had the kind of year that, coupled with his rookie year, could propel him to the HOF even if the rest of his career is a bit disappointing. I can't think of many guys who made as fast a start as Pedroia has made NOT making the HOF eventually (although there are certainly some).

Chipper Jones: Jones moved into the area to where he is a certain HOFer this year. There were some folks that questioned whether he would be overlooked; he's now silenced the critics, IMO. He won a batting title, pushed his BA to .310 (almost ensuring he'll be over .300 for his career), hit his 400th HR (he finished at 408), and made the All-Star team for the first time since 2001. Jones would be a HOFer if he retired tomorrow; maybe not on the first ballot, but he'd be elected by the writers, probably within the first 5 years. His big year also helps his image as finishing his career strong. Jones' biggest liability in terms of the HOF was the perception that he was fading; he's countered that enough to where that perception won't be working against him.

Brandon Webb: Webb won 22 games, getting the "never won 20" albatross off his back. He could have won a 2nd Cy Young Award this year, and I'm not convinced that Lincecum deserved the award any more than Webb did. Webb is moving into the area where he is going to succeed Johan Santana as being considered the best pitcher in baseball, and this year was a step forward.

Jamie Moyer: Moyer won 16 games, pushng his career record to 246-185. He's already won 20 games twice. There are many who can't see Moyer as a HOFer no matter what he does, and his career ERA is not impressive. But he's pushed himself into the discussion to where his credentials will have to be addressed. No matter what he does from here on out, Moyer will be in the HOF discussion, and he may well make it.

Chipper Jones did help his cause even though I do not see how he needed to do anything to be in already.

[brett]

Jim Edmonds. He had a 136 OPS+ in 85 games for Chicago. With 1925 games played, a great defensive reputation and now a good shot at 400 home runs plus a 132 OPS+ he is close in my book.

After '07 he looked like he was finished.

Delgado gave himself a another 2 year contract.

Webb, Santana, and perhaps even Oswalt continued to move in the right direction.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Jim Edmonds. He had a 136 OPS+ in 85 games for Chicago. With 1925 games played, a great defensive reputation and now a good shot at 400 home runs plus a 132 OPS+ he is close in my book.

After '07 he looked like he was finished.

Delgado gave himself a another 2 year contract.

Webb, Santana, and perhaps even Oswalt continued to move in the right direction.

Oswalt and Santana didn't have their best years last year, but they did keep up the pace to where they need to go.

I forgot about Edmonds. And, yes, he helped himself a LOT. Maybe more than anyone. His HOF chances (which I believe to be tied to his bit to reach 400 HRs) received new life. He's NOT likely to make the HOF now, but he could be 50-50 with another year like this last one.

[KCGHOST]

I like what Mussina, Chipper, and Delgado did. The first two locked up their reservations to Cooperstown and DelGado picked up big points with the NY media which can help a players case.

Halladay had another fine season. but really needs to get his counting numbers bumped up. He's heading in to his age 32 season and only has 131 wins. Like Schilling he needs to get over the 200 plateau to really get on the BBWAA's radar screen. Getting traded to a team that gets some publicity would really help his chances. The guy is a stud.

[Mike90]

Jim Thome hit another 34 HR, 90 RBI and 93 Runs. For someone who has never been seriously implicated with PEDs (as far as I know), his counting numbers have become too immense to ignore: 541 HR and over 2900 R + RBI with an OBP above .400.

Thome has never been regarded by the media as a truly great player. In 2002, he had a monster season hitting 52 HR (2nd) with 122 walks (1st) leading the league in slugging, OPS, OPS+, runs created and finishing 2nd in OBP. He was pretty clearly the best hitter in the AL that season but only finished 7th in the MVP voting (his team's 74-88 record probably had something to do with that). He's been top-10 in OPS+ 9 times but only top-10 in MVP voting 4 times. I don't know, it seems strange that a player as great as Thome won't sail into the Hall on the 1st ballot, but he won't.