Fingers vs. Gossage

[J W]

Rollie Fingers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/fingero01.shtml) (1968-1985)

6942 BFP, 114-118, 709 GF, 341 SV, 119 ERA+, 1.156 WHIP

Most similar pitcher: Rich Gossage (918)

Rich Gossage (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml) (1972-1994)

7506 BFP, 124-107, 681 GF, 310 SV, 126 ERA+, 1.232 WHIP

Most similar pitcher: Rollie Fingers (918)

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Both of them were multiple All-Stars, and both had their top 10 finishes in CYA voting (Fingers winning once). Now I understand and agree that Gossage was the better pitcher than Fingers. However I do not understand the growing divide I'm observing on this board, to the point that Gossage is a HOFer and Fingers is not.

I'm not posting a poll because we've been through that time and time again. I'd like to know the reasoning behind why one pitcher is better than the other, and by how wide a margin. I've always linked these two pitchers at the hip. If anyone wishes to back me up on that, by all means!

[mwiggins]

I think Gossage was clearly better and has a better case for the HoF. His numbers are better and he was considered by their peers as a more dominant and feared pitcher, which matters when you're talking closers.

But I don't think there's a wide gulf between them were Fingers is a mistake and Gossage is a clear cut HoFer. Gossage is a borderline HoFer for me, and Fingers is a borderline non-HoFer, but it's not a travesty that both of them are in. And it wouldn't be if neither one was in.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I think Gossage was clearly better and has a better case for the HoF. His numbers are better and he was considered by their peers as a more dominant and feared pitcher, which matters when you're talking closers.

But I don't think there's a wide gulf between them were Fingers is a mistake and Gossage is a clear cut HoFer. Gossage is a borderline HoFer for me, and Fingers is a borderline non-HoFer, but it's not a travesty that both of them are in. And it wouldn't be if neither one was in.

This is what the conventional wisdom says, but I'm beginning to question this.

Gossage's numbers are better, in part, because (A) he spent less time early in his career as a struggling starter, and (B) he spent more time in the traditional "closer" role, pitching the final inning, racking up one-inning saves. (In his book The Bronx Zoo, Sparky Lyle repeatedly expressed his complaint that the Yankees signed Gossage and he (Lyle) ended up becoming "Long Man Lyle".) It was with Gossage that Ron Davis became a bullpen star with the Yanks as a "setup man"; indeed, Davis and Gossage pretty much led the way to where these structured bullpen roles became standard operating procedure in most clubhouses.

As a result, Gossage had far more one-inning appearances as a percentage of his career than did Fingers. This skewed the numbers of both pitchers, but I consider Fingers to be the better pitcher because he pitched more two-inning appearances.

Neither, IMO, are overwhelming HOF candidates. Really, how much better were either one of them in comparision to Clay Carroll or Mike Marshall? (Carroll, in particular, is an extremely underrated reliever; he had this super 1970 season, but teammate Wayne Granger led the league in saves.) Gossage had the "power pitcher" image and persona, but he also had more problems with control.

[henrich]

Taking all stats into account...

I have Fingers at 14,114 2nd all-time, Gossage at 10,552 7th all-time both over the 10,000 mark for hall of fame numbers, but Fingers being the more valuable reliever. Clay Carroll for point of reference..at 5286 57th all-time

[SavoyBG]

Taking all stats into account...

I have Fingers at 14,114 2nd all-time, Gossage at 10,552 7th all-time both over the 10,000 mark for hall of fame numbers, but Fingers being the more valuable reliever. Clay Carroll for point of reference..at 5286 57th all-time

You're not "taking all stats into account," what you're obviously doing is assigning your own arbitrary poiint system for certain achievements.

Can you show us how the 14,114 and the 10,552 are derived?