What is tip and rip?

[dominik]

This is often mentioned here. What does this mean?

[hitnpeas]

I believe it is when the bat barrel is pointed (tipped) towards the pitcher during the loading phase of the swing. The rip is the act of hitting the ball. TIP and RIP!! Ripping the ball is slang for hitting the ball hard.... Manny does the TIP in the following clip.

[PhilliesPhan22]

I believe it could also be described as loading with the hands.

[RayR]

For the record I am not against a tip and rip, but to understand it as hand load is missing the boat.

Watch Manny's hands in relation to barrel and back elbow and the shoulders. Everything is rigidly connected. There is not an individual hand action. Try and move the bat like Manny without hand actions.

I know that I feel it in my hands, but the movement is not created there. It is the endpoint and it is really important to understand that.

Just the thought of not manipulating the hands and tipping and ripping should tighten up the movement. Handsy = Loose/disconnected

[TDS]

Well said Ray


For the record I am not against a tip and rip, but to understand it as hand load is missing the boat.

Watch Manny's hands in relation to barrel and back elbow and the shoulders. Everything is rigidly connected. There is not an individual hand action. Try and move the bat like Manny without hand actions.

I know that I feel it in my hands, but the movement is not created there. It is the endpoint and it is really important to understand that.

Just the thought of not manipulating the hands and tipping and ripping should tighten up the movement. Handsy = Loose/disconnected

[PhilliesPhan22]

For the record I am not against a tip and rip, but to understand it as hand load is missing the boat.

Watch Manny's hands in relation to barrel and back elbow and the shoulders. Everything is rigidly connected. There is not an individual hand action. Try and move the bat like Manny without hand actions.

I know that I feel it in my hands, but the movement is not created there. It is the endpoint and it is really important to understand that.

Just the thought of not manipulating the hands and tipping and ripping should tighten up the movement. Handsy = Loose/disconnected

Or could it be a result of his shoulders moving as he load his hips?

[RayR]

Or could it be a result of his shoulders moving as he load his hips?


I would focus lower than the shoulders and the timing is of HUGE importance.

[Stealth]

Below is the definition straight from Dmac;


"You fellows have kind of lost me. For me, the bat quickness helped by the hands (arms) comes from the running start. The running start comes from tipping the bat and then letting it rip with the hands without stopping to set the bat.........just going from the time the bat reaches it's farthest point in the tip. Here are some clips starting with Ruth and working the way up to the guys of today like Bonds, Guerrero, Soriano and the young teenager Robert Stock.

"When they tip it forward, they go from there.....they don't start, and then set their hands and then have to start again. Much like the running start I have yapped about with maddux for years

"What he is doing is getting more batspeed with less effort.......a running start. It does not need to be explained to a kid at all......just tell him to get his hands away from the body a little, point the bat at the sky, tip it towards the pitcher and then let it rip. If he asks why, you respond by telling him he will hit the ball a lot farther. When he does, there won't be any need to talk about pronation or whatever. If he can't do it, then there won't be any need to talk about pronation or whatever, because it won't matter.

"About 99% of all guys in the big leaguers were not taught the swing. They just found it along the way through emulation, feel or just blind luck. The clip of Williams is great, because he was 48 years old when it was shot and he is ripping the ball and laughing. He is also tipping the bat and then letting it rip. He is also the best hitter who ever walked and had dozens of instructors telling people that he was just a freak and that you should not copy him. They say the same thing about Bonds today, and the only guy who was smart enough to copy him was Robert Stocks dad, and it is paying off. He copies Bond's running start and the kid can hit balls a long way. Everyone else does not copy it because they think it is too hard to do. Mr Oh hit 868 dingers,was 5' 10, weighed 165 and nobody paid attention to his swing in the USA either.

"Last year in September, I saw the Mariners play a 6 game home series and every day I was there early to watch BP. Outside of Richie Sexon who is 6'9", Ichiro hits the ball farther than anyone on that club. He bangs ball after ball off the restaurant in right field which is about 410 ft away. In BP he tips the bat and lets it rip. He is 5'9" and about 160 lbs. In games he does not do it, because with his 3.6 speed, he was taught at a young age to take advantage of it.

"If your kids can run like Ichiro, then they can be dead hands slap hitters, but if they can't, then they better hit like Molitor, Olerud or Brett or better yet, learn to tip it and rip it and they may hit enough home runs and doubles to make their High School coach really like them.

"If you are built like Frank Thomas, you don't need to tip it either. Ted Williams once said that if he could work with Thomas that Frank would hit 80 home runs every year. It never happened.

"Timing it for a good athlete is not hard, what has happened is that nobody has taught it to anybody. What is really hard is setting your bat behind your shoulder, go from a dead start and then expect rotation to bring the bat around and magically hit the ball. That has been taught to many kids.......good luck"

[PhilliesPhan22]

It looks like it starts shortly after he picks his front foot up and is a result of the inertia created by this action. You have to go back to go forward.

[RayR]

I think tip and rip gets a bad rap because people understand to be a pre load move of the hands. The tip is the load and it is not being done by the hands.

Some players like Tejada have a ton of pre load hand movement, but consider that his "style"

His real tip begins when the knee has reached it's highest point. Before this the hands are just looking to set themselves up (his style) for the tip/load

Ignore the annotations - they are not mine and not part of my explanation

[RayR]

I will also say that player who understands how to unload does not need a really dynamic load as in the tip.

Here is Tulowitzki(sp) Longoria would be another one with very UNdynamic loading

[PhilliesPhan22]

Ok, so it may not be something that players are even conscious of when they do it?

The clip of Tulo reminds me of Paul Molitor. Be interesting to see their swings side by side.

[RayR]

Ok, so it may not be something that players are even conscious of when they do it?

The clip of Tulo reminds me of Paul Molitor. Be interesting to see their swings side by side.


I would say yes and no - conscious in practice, but not in games.

And when slumps come around I would bet that in BP they are really conscious of getting those feelings back, being relaxed, but conscious of what they are doing.

I will go off point a second about slumps - Tension in the swing is a killer - what happens when a player slumps? They press, which creates tension. I think that is when the really good players can step back and regain the relaxed, tension free swing they had.

[dominik]

So this is kind of a backswing? Is this prevalent in all MLB swings?

[callyjr]

So this is kind of a backswing? Is this prevalent in all MLB swings?

with the power hitters its an absolute. See how the barrel tips forward before coming back.

[Ursa Major]

Interesting... I've heard (and myself used) the term to refer to a tip NOT toward the pitcher but in a direction toward the opposite dugout. This may help younger hitters by forcing the elbow up and keeping the hands back toward the shoulder and, hence, better connected, as well as by countering the "bat droop/flattening" exhibited by many younger hitters. For more advanced hitters, it may also give the DMAC running start and work as a timing mechanism. As shown by the clip above, Williams did it, and many big leaguers continue to do it -- here's ARod:

[PhilliesPhan22]

with the power hitters its an absolute. See how the barrel tips forward before coming back.



how old is Williams in that clip? Its obviosly after his playing days.

[Stealth]

Ted is 48 in this clip and it is the one Dmac referred to in the post I made above with the quote from Dmac.


This may help younger hitters by forcing the elbow up and keeping the hands back toward the shoulder and, hence, better connected, as well as by countering the "bat droop/flattening" exhibited by many younger hitters.

Ursa - it also helps with separation in a big way. Can you see what is happening to the hips as the barrel starts it's rearward arc?

[callyjr]

Ted is 48 in this clip and it is the one Dmac referred to in the post I made above with the quote from Dmac.



Ursa - it also helps with separation in a big way. Can you see what is happening to the hips as the barrel starts it's rearward arc?


The hips and the direction the barrel points are the 2 main things I keep showing my son for improvement in his swing.

[PhilliesPhan22]

Ted is 48 in this clip and it is the one Dmac referred to in the post I made above with the quote from Dmac.





Thanks. Looks like he could still play.

[Stealth]

The hips and the direction the barrel points are the 2 main things I keep showing my son for improvement in his swing.

Cally - it makes such a BIG difference once they feel this move. My favorite drill is Swingbusters "step behind", "Happy Gillmore" swings off the tee hitting the inside seam to the back of the net. It loads the hips, the barrel starts it's move backwards while the hips are opening up and then BANG the ball just explodes off the bat.

Here is the drill: Off a tee - step behind with your rear foot so that it is now in front while pointing the tip of the bat to the opposite field. Continue to hit the ball focusing on hitting the inside of the ball and making sure you are hitting the ball right up the middle. I place the ball on the tee so the two seams (like I was throwing a 2 seam fastball) are vertical and facing the catcher. That way there is an easy target to hit. When you hit the ball the tee should be located near the front leg at contact. You will be starting off further back than you would normally stand in the box, but make sure you are making contact at the correct spot. The flight of the ball is important - you should not roll over or come around the ball in this drill.

[Ursa Major]

Stealth said: Ursa - it also helps with separation in a big way. Can you see what is happening to the hips as the barrel starts it's rearward arc?Are you talking about the ARod .gif? Could you be a little more explicit about what you are seeing and how you think it relates to (i.e., somehow benefits from) both:

a. The tip toward the first base dugout, and
b. The 'starting of the rearward arc'?

Obviously, ARod has great hip action, but I'm trying to see how what we are talking about helps generate that.

[Stealth]

Ursa - The hands start their launch, the barrel goes rearward (after it tipped)almost holding the hands near the rear shoulder as the hips have started to open - separation. If you do the drill I mentioned above you should be able to "feel" what I am describing.

The Williams clip shows it the best.

[Ursa Major]

I'm not sure I understand these two parts of the drill -- "step behind with your rear foot so that it is now in front while pointing the tip of the bat to the opposite field."

Where exactly is the rear foot? If you think of the batter's box as a clock, with the pitcher at 13 o'clock and the front foot in the middle pointing to three o'clock, where is the rear foot and what direction is it pointing?

As far as the tip pointing -- does this mean that you're so closed that when you tip the bat over the top of your head you are pointing it out toward right field during the tip? Just before launch?

[1chapterahead]

I'm not sure I understand these two parts of the drill -- "step behind with your rear foot so that it is now in front while pointing the tip of the bat to the opposite field."

Where exactly is the rear foot? If you think of the batter's box as a clock, with the pitcher at 13 o'clock and the front foot in the middle pointing to three o'clock, where is the rear foot and what direction is it pointing?

As far as the tip pointing -- does this mean that you're so closed that when you tip the bat over the top of your head you are pointing it out toward right field during the tip? Just before launch?The drills are posted on HI. I had my 10yo do these and he had a blast and was really putting a charge into the ball as well.

[Stealth]

Ursa - Get in your stance, bring your rear foot behind the front foot and place it in front towards the pitcher as best you can. At that point you are tipping the bat (like the Williams/Bonds clip) and then letting it rip. I like to exagerate the tip, so yes it would be tipped toward the right fielder assuming you are a RH Batter.

You can always rent Happy Gilmore and watch the golf version where he runs up to the ball and hits it.:D