Charlie Bennett

[Cowtipper]

Charlie Bennett played from 1878 to 1893 (although had he not been run over by a train he may have lasted longer), spending his entire career in the National League. Mostly a catcher, he hit .256 with an OPS+ of 118.

Although he never led the league in anything, his grey ink of 64 shows that he was on the leaderboard quite often - he was on the top ten list in home runs five times and walks six times.

Bennett could be considered the premier slugging catcher of the 1880s. During that decade, he led all catchers in doubles and home runs, and he also led all catchers in walks during the 1880s.

Not only was he solid offensively, he was solid defensively as well - he led the league in catcher fielding percentage seven times and double plays and putouts thrice. Furthermore, he is credited with inventing the chest protector.

In The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, Bill James ranks him as the 49th best catcher of all time.

None of the ten players he is most similar to statistically are in the Hall of Fame, but since his comps played in the 20th century it's kind of comparing apples and oranges. The players he is similar to are Tony Bernazard, Aaron Ward, Luis Alicea, Connie Ryan, Bob O'Farrell, Don Gutteridge, Vance Law, Jack Wilson, Billy Cox and Adam Kennedy.

In 1936, he received three votes for the Hall of Fame.

What's your opinion on Charlie Bennett? Should he be in the Hall of Fame?

[jalbright]

Bill James latest Historical Abstract isn't very kind to 19th century guys, much less catchers of that time, who had a devil of a time playing a lot given the lack of protective equipment in those days. I tend to think Bennett belongs because he was able to play so much and so well despite those issues.

[Dodgerfan1]

No. Not a ghost of a chance, if sanity prevails.

[Cowtipper]

No. Not a ghost of a chance, if sanity prevails.

Instead of just saying "no", give a reasoning. It helps spur discussion.

[Dodgerfan1]

Instead of just saying "no", give a reasoning. It helps spur discussion.

Understood. To me, the Hall of Fame is a hallowed place reserved for the greats of the game. Charlie Bennett is not among them. Nor is he among the very good players. Nor is he among those who were well above average. He may have been above average, but not by so much as should give him HOF consideration.

I can expound more if you like, but those are my basic points. A .256 lifetime BA doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy either.

[Cowtipper]

Understood. To me, the Hall of Fame is a hallowed place reserved for the greats of the game. Charlie Bennett is not among them. Nor is he among the very good players. Nor is he among those who were well above average. He may have been above average, but not by so much as should give him HOF consideration.

I can expound more if you like, but those are my basic points. A .256 lifetime BA doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy either.

Behind Buck Ewing I'd call him the best catcher of the 1880s. I think that's a plus for him. However, I do understand that .256 averages and < 1000 career hits are rather disconcerting statistics.

[Freakshow]

All players with 600+ games at catcher 1871-1930, 3500+ PA, OPS+ of 100+
Cnt Player OPS+ PA From To
+----+-----------------+----+-----+----+----+
1 Buck Ewing 129 5770 1880 1897
2 Roger Bresnahan 126 5374 1897 1915
3 Wally Schang 118 6332 1913 1930
4 Charlie Bennett 118 4310 1878 1893
5 Jack Clements 117 4704 1884 1900
6 Bob O'Farrell 102 4064 1915 1930
7 Deacon McGuire 101 6932 1884 1912
8 Johnny Kling 100 4640 1900 1913 Bennett ended his career holding the record for most games played at catcher.

[STLCards2]

Oops! Meant to put "maybe." IF somebody could change my vote, that would be great!

[jalbright]

Oops! Meant to put "maybe." IF somebody could change my vote, that would be great!

I'll change the totals, but your name will still be listed in the "no" category.

[Bill Burgess]

Introducing Charlie Bennett---Albright's musings post (http://baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=393654&postcount=165)---BB Library bio (http://www.baseballlibrary.com/ballplayers/player.php?name=Charlie_Bennett_1854)---BB Reference (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bennech01.shtml)

Born: November 21, 1854 in New Castle, PA
Died: February 24, 1927 in Detroit, MI

Bats Right, Throws Right
Height 5' 11", Weight 180 lb.

NL catcher, 1878 - 1893

1. In the superb book, "The History of Baseball: Its great Players, Teams and Managers, edited By Allison Danzig & Joe Reichler, 1959, pp. 255, we find this introduction to its CATCHERS section;

The GREAT CATCHERS of baseball have included Bill Dickey, Roger Bresnahan, Mickey Cochrane, Gabby Hartnett, Buck Ewing, Johnny Kling, Ray Schalk and Roy Campanella. Also, Jimmy Archer, Lou Criger, Martin Bergen, Wallie Schang, Steve O'Neil, Bob O'Farrell, Charlie Bennett, Rick Ferrell, Mike (King) Kelly, Gabby Street, Billy Sullivan, Jimmy Wilson, Hank Gowdy, Bill Killifer, Wilbert Robinson, Walker Cooper, Al Lopez, Yogi Berra and Ernie Lombardi.

2. William B. Hanna (October, 1956? - November 20, 1930; NY sportswriter, 1888-1930)
Bennett was great as a backstop. So were Johnny Kling, Lou Criger, Martin Bergen, Jimmy Archer, Billy Sullivan and Bill Killefer, and Doe Bushong. So are Schalk, O'Neill, Severeid, Bassler and O'Farrell, the last named one of the best of the day for all around excellence. None has made the intaglio-like impress of Ewing. (Baseball Magazine, June, 1924, pp. 300)

3. Francis C. Richter, Philadelphia sportswriter (1876-1926); AL Reach Baseball Guide Editor-In-Chief (1901-1926, death)
Charley Bennett was listed with Buck Ewing as the 2 best catchers from 1880-1890, by Francis Richter.

4. Robert Sensenderfer (December 31, 1883 - January 3, 1957)(Philadelphia sports writer, 50 years)
In the Philadelphia Bulletin in 1936, listed Buck Ewing and Charlie Bennett among the great players of baseball prior to 1900.

5. Tim H. Murnane (June 4, 1851 - February 7, 1917; ML 1B, 1872-78; Boston sports writer, 1888-1917 of the Boston Globe listed the game's great catchers.) Listed Bennett on his All-American team in 1900.

6. Kid Nichols, (September 14, 1869 - April 11, 1953)(NL pitcher, 1890 - 1901, 04-06)
"Charley Bennett was the best catcher during my time. He worked with me in Boston until he lost his legs in a railroad accident. He went through several seasons without having a passed ball. He never had an equal as a thrower to bases." Bennett was the catcher of the world champion Detroit Team of 1887."

I also suspect that they caught so few games per season because of injuries. With the doctored balls they were allowed to throw, a lot of errand ball hit their hands, split their nails, banged their shins, rickocheed off their knees, etc. It is known that a lot of the old catchers ended up with gnarled, grotesquely distorted fingers. Here is an excerpt from my Charlie Bennet post from my Ty Cobb Thread.

"When he was forced to give up baseball, Bennett came back to Detroit and became adept at painting chinaware. First he tried it as a pastime and later as means of livelihood. It was with characteristic patience that Bennett trained his distorted fingers in the delicate art of china painting. . . . it is certain that Bennett ranked with the greatest catchers of his period. Above all else, he was loyal to his job, frequently sticking behind the plate when suffering intense pain from injuries sustained in the line of duty.

James Hart, manager of the old Boston club, has told how Bennett once insisted on catching though his hands were torn and bleeding. In fact, Bennett had caught several innings before it was known he was jnjured. The knowledge did not come from Bennett but from John Clarkson, his pitcher, who griped that when the ball was returned to him, it was stained with blood. Even when Clarkson reported it to Management, Bennett protested against leaving the game and it was only after much insisting that he consented to leave." (Thursday, Sporting News, March 3, 1927, pp. by Sam Greene)

It is the author's contention that Charlie Bennett was the 2nd greatest defensive catcher of the 1800's, after the immortal Buck Ewing, although not the equal as an all-around catcher of King Kelly, due to offense. I hold that Charlie Bennett deserves to rank among the very greatest defensive catchers of all time. I do not advocate Charlie Bennet for the Hall of Fame.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charlie Bennett

1878 - 8 (Snyder)
1879 - NR
1880 - 2 (Clapp)
1881 - 1
1882 - 1
1883 - T3 (Bushong)
1884 - 7 (Gilligan)
1885 - 5 (Ewing)
1886 - 1
1887 - 4 (Daly)
1888 - 1
1889 - 4 (Zimmer)
1890 - 2 (Zimmer)
1891 - 3 (Zimmer)
1892 - 22 (Zimmer)
1893 - 14 (Farrell)

Charlie Bennett, Detroit C, 1881-88------------------Charlie Bennett, former Detroit star catcher
-------------------------------------------------------with prosthetic legs. Bennett Field in Detroit was named after him.
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv217/BillBurgess/19th%20Century%20Photographic%20Archive/Image2-2.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------with 1890 Boston Nationals(Bees)

[KCGHOST]

I am not sure about Bennett but he is certainly worthy of discussion.