Red Sox make pitch to Marlins for Hanley after missing out on Tex…

[zellyanks91]

Accoriding to SI’s Jon Heyman, the Red Sox made a pitch to the Florida Marlins for Hanley Ramirez after missing out in the Teixeira Sweepstakes. The Marlins are hesitant in trading away their best player, and that’s understandable. The Red Sox made a mistake by trading him a few years ago. They did get Beckett and Lowell in return, but they gave up a superstar in the making. The Marlins need a center fielder, and the discussions were supposedly involving Jacoby Ellsbury and Clay Buchholz. Nothing really developed after that.

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Looks like the owners are starting to come out of the woodwork now. Now Astros owner, Drayton McLane is in favor of a salary cap. He is one of the wealthiest men in the country, but unlike Steinbrenner..he doesn’t want to put money into his team. They just pocket the money instead. People make it sound like these owners have no money, and it’s not true at all. The funny part about it is that the Yankees haven’t been winning with all this high spending. They haven’t won a World Series in the last eight years. Meanwhile..a smaller market team like the Florida Marlins has won the World Series twice in the past 12 years.

“We would love to have a salary cap, but the (players’) union has been very resistant to that,” McLane said this past week.

“The Yankees are the Yankees and are always going to be in a position that is unique to the game from the standpoint of the revenues and what they’re capable of doing,” Astros general manager Ed Wade said.

“Our revenues jumped going into a new park (in 2000), but nowhere in the league of the Yankees,” McLane said. “They will certainly generate more revenue in their new stadium. We still have tough, tough economic times, and I hope they allot for that.”

[johnnypapa]

“We would love to have a salary cap, but the (players’) union has been very resistant to that,” McLane said this past week.


Really? What a surprise!!:laugh


With that kind of insight McLane should be considered for President Obama's economic team.

[Shadly]

How about having a clause that says you have to invest a certain percentage of your profits into baseball operations. Don't feel sorry for guys like this. There are a lot of cheapskate owners out there that like to play the poor oppressed small market team card. "Oh, those damn Yankees have got us down." Bull plop!

[johnnypapa]

“Our revenues jumped going into a new park (in 2000), but nowhere in the league of the Yankees,” McLane said. “They will certainly generate more revenue in their new stadium. We still have tough, tough economic times, and I hope they allot for that.”


The Yankees are alloting for that. They are alloting their luxury tax into your (McLanes's) pocket in a system that was voted on by the owners.

[225Yankee]

The Yankees are alloting for that. They are alloting the their luxury tax into your (McLanes's) pocket in a system that was voted on by the owners.McLane probably wants to up the luxury tax as well.


Whether it's true or not...certain owners will use the "economy spin" on not spending aka "investing" in their team and that's something they can hide behind for now even though it's transparent and the fans can see straight through that. They don't spend because they choose not to.

[nyyfan]

Who would the Fish want? I don't see anyone that they would be willing to give up for Hanley. Please don't happen!

[CajunSlugger]

The Marlins don't need a CF. They have Cameron Maybin, who they recieved in the trade with the Tigers last winter.

[Biggtone23]

For who the Marlins would want back in the deal lets not kid ourselves the Red Sox have one of the best farm systems out there. If Ellsbury can play center I'm pretty sure he could play a corner, though he may not hit enough for a corner outfielder. Throw in guys like Buchholz, Jon Lester, Lars Anderson, Led Lowrie, Michael Bowden, Justin Masterson and I'm sure the Marlins can find some quality parts there. The question would be how much of it would the Sox be willing to give up and would it be enough. I've read posts on other sites from Red Sox fans who would refuse give up Lester, Dustin Pedroia or even Masterson or Bowden in the deal.

[PhenomJoba]

For Hanley Ramirez, that package better start with Pedroia & Lester. Hanley is arguably the best in baseball.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Marlins asked for Bucholtz and Ellsbury, Boston said no.

It`d be like the Yanks giving up Hughes, Jackson, and maybe one more low-level prospect. If Boston wants to do that, they can go ahead and do it.

[Boston Boxer]

Marlins asked for Bucholtz and Ellsbury, Boston said no.

It`d be like the Yanks giving up Hughes, Jackson, and maybe one more low-level prospect. If Boston wants to do that, they can go ahead and do it.

they were asking for more than those two. It was Buchholz, Ellsbury, Bowden and two other young arms. The sox said no to that. The Marlins will eventually trade Ramirez when he starts making too much money (for them), in 2011 i think.

[Domenic]

I would deal Hughes, Jackson, Kennedy, Cervelli, and another arm for Ramirez. To be honest, I would be willing to listen to most any deal for Ramirez.

[Mariano_Rivera]

I would deal Hughes, Jackson, Kennedy, Cervelli, and another arm for Ramirez. To be honest, I would be willing to listen to most any deal for Ramirez.

Normally yes, but then what do we do with Jeter?

[Domenic]

Ramirez isn't a great shortstop - move him to centerfield or leftfield. Or, the Yankees can stop catering to the whims of the captain and make him actually put the team first, and move him to center or left.

Then again, the team would also be better with Jeter hitting first, yet he doesn't want to do that, either.

[YankeeDJW]

Then again, the team would also be better with Jeter hitting first, yet he doesn't want to do that, either.

You've said that a few times, so I'm curious as to where you've heard it.

I know the stats show he has better stats in the leadoff spot, but from my observations, Jeter swings waay to often at the first pitch to be in the leadoff spot.

And you think Hanley is worth a boatload of prospects? One good hitter? Sure, he's got a lot of talent, but I would have a very hard time trading away our best prospects for another bat in the lineup, especially now.

[clipper]

You've said that a few times, so I'm curious as to where you've heard it.

I know the stats show he has better stats in the leadoff spot, but from my observations, Jeter swings waay to often at the first pitch to be in the leadoff spot.

And you think Hanley is worth a boatload of prospects? One good hitter? Sure, he's got a lot of talent, but I would have a very hard time trading away our best prospects for another bat in the lineup, especially now.

Jeter moving to CF (and batting 1st) is an annual winter thread. Not going to happen. I have no problem if he wants to play SS or bat 2 spot. I don't feel he hurts the team that much. Sue I see the DPs and limited range on 3rd base but he still is Jeter, our Captain, and bunts.

Totally agree about our top prospects. We lost our first pick last year and I think we are losing our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd pick this year because of FAs. We don't need to trade our top prospects now. I understand Hanley is very good and can play CF but have a problem with Florida management and this is why I am so happy I am not a Florida fan. It's ironic the BoSox will make this trade.

I'll pass unless they take Melky and Kennedy which is not going to happen.

Clipper

[Mariano_Rivera]

We have one first round pick though because we didn't sign Geritt Cole from last year

[Paulypal]

The Red Sox said no to Ellsbury and Lester? Well thats good for the Yanks. Hanley is the best hitting shortstop in baseball, hands down.

Maybe because he is buried in Florida not many people know how good he is but if I was the Yanks and had any chance of getting him I would ask them who they wanted - and nobody is off limits. NOBODY!! You know they wont ask for anyone making any kind of money.

They wouldnt want Hughes because of what happened last year. Hughes doesnt carry that kind of value anymore, but they would ask for Chamberlain. That would probably flip some fans out but I still think Hanley for Joba is a no brainer.

Two years ago the Yanks could have had Teixeira for Hughes and paid the price for not doing it. Hanley has a chance of being the greatest hitting shortstop ever.

The problem would be again ...Jeter...this would be the second time a better shortstop was on the Yanks and would have to move somewhere else. Hanley to centerfield makes the most sense. If he wants to. Although Hanley is not a great defensive player he is a lot more range than Jeter.

[Paulypal]

You've said that a few times, so I'm curious as to where you've heard it.

I know the stats show he has better stats in the leadoff spot, but from my observations, Jeter swings waay to often at the first pitch to be in the leadoff spot.

And you think Hanley is worth a boatload of prospects? One good hitter? Sure, he's got a lot of talent, but I would have a very hard time trading away our best prospects for another bat in the lineup, especially now.

Thats why they are called "prospects". Hanley Ramirez is going to leave a huge mark on baseball before its all said and done, and he has started to do that already. The prospects are maybe's at best ...Ramirez is a "has done". Yanks made this mistake two years ago when Hughes was Tom Seaver and passed on Teixeira. How did that turn out?

The Fish would target Chamerlain for sure in a trade regarding Ramirez,,,and as I said earlier...no brainer

[YankeeDJW]

Thats why they are called "prospects". Hanley Ramirez is going to leave a huge mark on baseball before its all said and done, and he has started to do that already. The prospects are maybe's at best ...Ramirez is a "has done". Yanks made this mistake two years ago when Hughes was Tom Seaver and passed on Teixeira. How did that turn out?

How did it turn out? We have both now. Or would you argue that Teixeira would've made up the 8 game difference between the Yanks and the Sox last season? Even two seasons ago, the Yankees had one of the most potent offenses in the league. We had a solid-hitting 1st baseman in Giambi, so I see no reason to regret not getting Teixiera any earlier.

I don't believe trading the #1 pitching prospect in baseball for someone who wouldn't even be the best hitter on the team is a good decision. Would Hanley be a nice addition? Sure. Does he fill an essential need on the team? No. In my opinion, that means he is not worth trading top prospects for. I guess that is where we disagree.


The Fish would target Chamerlain for sure in a trade regarding Ramirez,,,and as I said earlier...no brainer

Joba has shown he can be one of the most dominating pitchers in the league when healthy. Good pitching is harder to come by than good hitting. I would take my chances with Chamberlain. Leaving another hole in our rotation for a lineup that already includes A-rod, Teixeira, Jeter, and Damon doesn't make much sense to me. Even with the need for a SS in a few years, the next Yankee shortstop doesn't have to put up Jeter-like numbers and I don't think making a rash trade seasons ahead of time to try getting them is a good idea.

[Mariano_Rivera]

Two years ago the Yanks could have had Teixeira for Hughes and paid the price for not doing it. Hanley has a chance of being the greatest hitting shortstop ever.


Give Hughes some time before you give up on him. We got Teixeira now anyway and still have Hughes.

A guy named Alex Rodriguez might have something to say about that.....

[Paulypal]

How did it turn out? We have both now. Or would you argue that Teixeira would've made up the 8 game difference between the Yanks and the Sox last season? Even two seasons ago, the Yankees had one of the most potent offenses in the league. We had a solid-hitting 1st baseman in Giambi, so I see no reason to regret not getting Teixiera any earlier.

I don't believe trading the #1 pitching prospect in baseball for someone who wouldn't even be the best hitter on the team is a good decision. Would Hanley be a nice addition? Sure. Does he fill an essential need on the team? No. In my opinion, that means he is not worth trading top prospects for. I guess that is where we disagree.



Joba has shown he can be one of the most dominating pitchers in the league when healthy. Good pitching is harder to come by than good hitting. I would take my chances with Chamberlain. Leaving another hole in our rotation for a lineup that already includes A-rod, Teixeira, Jeter, and Damon doesn't make much sense to me. Even with the need for a SS in a few years, the next Yankee shortstop doesn't have to put up Jeter-like numbers and I don't think making a rash trade seasons ahead of time to try getting them is a good idea.

First of all I think Teixeira may have helped in 2007 ....in the playoffs against the Indians. He hit more homers and had more RBI's for the Braves AFTER the trade than Giambi had all year. Giambi had 4 AB's in the playoffs in 2007. Giambi wasnt so solid in 2007. In 2008 Giambi was good, but still wasnt Teixiera offensively. Now add in Teixeira's defense over Giambi...do they make up the 8 games? Maybe not, but you really cant say for sure can you? Maybe ARod has a better year in 2008 if he is between Abreau and Tex. Cant say. Either way they were better off in my opinion.

Whats the difference if its the best hitter on the team? With ARod their your going to be hard pressed to find a better hitter. Where we differ is Hanley can be a need if he wants to be the centerfielder. He can run like the wind, has a cannon for an arm and his offense is excellent. If he gets a chance to play for a winning team he may switch over. Who is the Yankee centerfielder? Gardner, Melkey, Swisher?

If Hanley was on the Yanks thats another perenial all star, can you say that about any prospect, Joba included? You just signed CC and AJ, add that to Wang.....what hole in the rotation? According to you "we now have both" when speaking of Hughes...So there you go...slide Hughes in there. Make Kennedy your 5 starter....oh wait that "prospect" exploded as well. They didnt want to trade Kennedy and Melky for Santana..but thats another story of hanging on to "prospects" instead of traded for All Stars in their prime.

Honestly..I know Jeter is Jeter, but the need for a shortstop is less than a few years away. Your right the next Yankee SS doesnt have to put up Jeter like numbers but if that SS was Ramirez the numbers would be closer to ARod numbers than they would Jeter numbers, but who needs that?

[Paulypal]

Give Hughes some time before you give up on him. We got Teixeira now anyway and still have Hughes.

A guy named Alex Rodriguez might have something to say about that.....


I didnt say I gave up on Hughes......my point is this and its very simple:

If I can get a player thats a an All Star every year...for a prospect, unless is a very rare case, I am making the trade. I am not talking about filling a hole late in the season with an average player for a playoff run....I am talking about an All Star caliber player. The trade is done.

Question - knowing what you know now...Would you have pulled the trigger on the Teixeira for Hughes trade?

I was saying the same thing I am now...I wanted Tex for Hughes, just like I would trade Joba for Ramirez.

[Hysteria]

Is it just me or does everyone else no give a crap what the red sox do? Seeing that we've sign 3/4 big free agents and the sox are not gonna sign Manny.

[YankeeDJW]

First of all I think Teixeira may have helped in 2007 ....in the playoffs against the Indians. He hit more homers and had more RBI's for the Braves AFTER the trade than Giambi had all year. Giambi had 4 AB's in the playoffs in 2007. Giambi wasnt so solid in 2007. In 2008 Giambi was good, but still wasnt Teixiera offensively. Now add in Teixeira's defense over Giambi...do they make up the 8 games? Maybe not, but you really cant say for sure can you? Maybe ARod has a better year in 2008 if he is between Abreau and Tex. Cant say. Either way they were better off in my opinion.

Whats the difference if its the best hitter on the team? With ARod their your going to be hard pressed to find a better hitter. Where we differ is Hanley can be a need if he wants to be the centerfielder. He can run like the wind, has a cannon for an arm and his offense is excellent. If he gets a chance to play for a winning team he may switch over. Who is the Yankee centerfielder? Gardner, Melkey, Swisher?

If Hanley was on the Yanks thats another perenial all star, can you say that about any prospect, Joba included? You just signed CC and AJ, add that to Wang.....what hole in the rotation? According to you "we now have both" when speaking of Hughes...So there you go...slide Hughes in there. Make Kennedy your 5 starter....oh wait that "prospect" exploded as well. They didnt want to trade Kennedy and Melky for Santana..but thats another story of hanging on to "prospects" instead of traded for All Stars in their prime.

Honestly..I know Jeter is Jeter, but the need for a shortstop is less than a few years away. Your right the next Yankee SS doesnt have to put up Jeter like numbers but if that SS was Ramirez the numbers would be closer to ARod numbers than they would Jeter numbers, but who needs that?

I don't necessarily agree with your point - it certainly has validity - but I still don't think trading away top pitching prospects for a hitter is worth it. Sure, Hanley will likely be a top 10 player in his time, but so will Teixiera. In my opinion, the value of a pitchers and hitters is disproportional: I generally value a good pitcher over a good hitter, mainly because good hitters are easier to come by.

I agree the Yankees would've been better off the past few years with Teixeira, but only in the short run. Long term, I think they would have regretted trading Hughes and Kennedy (who, by the way, haven't "exploded." They're young and writing them off as no good based on a single season in which they were thrust into roles they weren't ready for is a mistake). Sure its a risk to hold on to them, but the reward of developinga prime MLB pitcher outweighs the risk of them not panning out. And to be honest, I don't see a need for another perennial all-star. We had a roster full of them for eight years to no avail. A large part of this can be attributed to a lack of pitching depth. Cashman is trying to build that up now. Of the three big pitcher the Yanks have - Sabathia, Wang, and Burnett - Sabathia is the only one without a question mark. Burnett will have to stay healthy and Wang needs to bounce back from an injury and half a season of inactivity. Joba's innings are going to be limited as they build up his arm strength and there is still a need for a number four or five starter. At this point Hughes is slotted for it, I guess, but I'm still not confident he is ready. The rotations is far from being a sure thing right now. But the Yanks finally have started to build a solid rotation with depth, so trading that away for another all-star - which has done the Yankees no good in the past seasons - is not, in my opinion, the right way to go.

[Paulypal]

I don't necessarily agree with your point - it certainly has validity - but I still don't think trading away top pitching prospects for a hitter is worth it. Sure, Hanley will likely be a top 10 player in his time, but so will Teixiera. In my opinion, the value of a pitchers and hitters is disproportional: I generally value a good pitcher over a good hitter, mainly because good hitters are easier to come by.

I agree the Yankees would've been better off the past few years with Teixeira, but only in the short run. Long term, I think they would have regretted trading Hughes and Kennedy (who, by the way, haven't "exploded." They're young and writing them off as no good based on a single season in which they were thrust into roles they weren't ready for is a mistake). Sure its a risk to hold on to them, but the reward of developinga prime MLB pitcher outweighs the risk of them not panning out. And to be honest, I don't see a need for another perennial all-star. We had a roster full of them for eight years to no avail. A large part of this can be attributed to a lack of pitching depth. Cashman is trying to build that up now. Of the three big pitcher the Yanks have - Sabathia, Wang, and Burnett - Sabathia is the only one without a question mark. Burnett will have to stay healthy and Wang needs to bounce back from an injury and half a season of inactivity. Joba's innings are going to be limited as they build up his arm strength and there is still a need for a number four or five starter. At this point Hughes is slotted for it, I guess, but I'm still not confident he is ready. The rotations is far from being a sure thing right now. But the Yanks finally have started to build a solid rotation with depth, so trading that away for another all-star - which has done the Yankees no good in the past seasons - is not, in my opinion, the right way to go.

Believe me I understand what your saying. If these players were able to reach their projected value as prospects then your right, but not having a crystal ball makes that difficult to do. My point is that no crystal ball is needed for Ramirez your getting a solid skill set, and although you say they dont need another big bat in the lineup...I say why not. What big bats do they have? Arod, Teixeira,,no doubt. Matsui can longer be counted on, do you really know how Posada is going to come back after major shoulder surgery? Is Nady a lock for 30/100? Abreau is gone, Giambi is gone. Damon was solid, and Jeters numbers are dropping coming off the lowest OPS of his career. Cano is coming off a horrible year, and no matter who the CF'er is he isnt going to be an impact offensive player? Us as fans can toss around some names but what do those names mean anymore? 3-4 good steady offensive players, and 5-6 question marks in my opinion.

For those reasons above...I saw Tex as a necessity from the end of the season, as necessary as CC, or AJ.


First of all this is all hyperthetical because the Yanks havent offered Joba for Ramirez, but it makes for good hot stove talk.

I believe that Joba (I know I am in the minority) is best suited for the bullpen on this team. As I have stated in other threads he is slated to throw 130 innings in 2009 if you go by the formula being used that they wont increase him by more than 30% over last years IP's. He pitched 100 last year. So based on 130 innings he cant be the number 4 and get 32 starts because thats 4+ innings a start, and if he is a number 5 and they skip him every so often to keep his innings down,,,how effective is that? Also lets not forget he is coming off an injury. I am sure he is fine but still not a great thing for a young pitcher.

[Domenic]

Hanley Ramirez is 25. He has improved every year, and has the skillset to play CF. He is the best offensive SS in baseball, currently, and by a fairly significant margin. Acquiring him would make the team much better, without significantly jeopardizing the team's future. Having Ramirez under a long-term deal at 25 is better than having Rodriguez for a long-term deal at 34 or Teixeira at 28.

The Yankees have a great deal of depth within the organization, in terms of pitching. Dealing Hughes and a couple of other arms, or Hughes, Jackson, and some lower-rung players would make the team better now and in the future. Hughes has all the talent in the world, and I think he will be a solid number three at worst. That being said, I would prefer Hanley Ramirez at SS, CF, LF, RF, C, 2B, 3B, 1B, or DH than Hughes and Jackson anywhere.

[Paulypal]

Hanley Ramirez is 25. He has improved every year, and has the skillset to play CF. He is the best offensive SS in baseball, currently, and by a fairly significant margin. Acquiring him would make the team much better, without significantly jeopardizing the team's future. Having Ramirez under a long-term deal at 25 is better than having Rodriguez for a long-term deal at 34 or Teixeira at 28.

The Yankees have a great deal of depth within the organization, in terms of pitching. Dealing Hughes and a couple of other arms, or Hughes, Jackson, and some lower-rung players would make the team better now and in the future. Hughes has all the talent in the world, and I think he will be a solid number three at worst. That being said, I would prefer Hanley Ramirez at SS, CF, LF, RF, C, 2B, 3B, 1B, or DH than Hughes and Jackson anywhere.

I agree with you 100%. Guys like Hanley when available you have to get them if you can.

Would you trade Joba in a package for Hanley? I would in a blink.