Showcases and Baseball Exclusivity

[tominct]

I saw some comments about Shwocases in the travel ball thread, but I thought I would start another thread about Showcases, but also baseball exclusivity in terms of development.

I have a neighbor who played for me in Middle School, and this past year he drafted by one of the major league teams. He spent the summers after his sophmore and junior years at Perfect Game, doing whatever it is they do at the Perfect Game Showcase. His father swears by it and will send the younger brother, a HS soph. there as well. Now, when the older boy was coming up, he played his LAST season of rec ball at 9, and then played for travel teams(not REC sponsored travel teams, but independent AAU teams) all the way up, sometimes more than 75 games a year, and in New England that's saying something.

Interestingly enough, neither of these boys played any other sport at the youth level. Nothing. In MS the older boy played hoops and again as a freshman in HS. The younger boy could have played anything he wanted and likely excelled, but he, to this day, plays only baseball, and growing up he went through a 2 year stint when he didn't even do that, but he will start as a Soph for the HS team this season, likely at short.

Now there are more and more independent teams to play for, but some rec leagues are getting into the year-round act, contracting time with local facilities to run clinics throughout the winter, and fall baseball is now common almost everywhere.

So consider this:

Most "experts" will contend that it's better for kids to play other sports(and I don't disagree, my son is playing basketball for the first time and is also wrestling, and I see his athleticism imporove), to get athletic development they couldn't playing only baseball, but consider that gymnasts and swimmers reach an elite level at a young age relative to baseball (which is a skill game primarily, one might argue) and they are often totally focused on that one sport from a very very young age. I tell my students, "If I had my sons playing baseball the way you swimmers go, 4-6 days a week, two hours a day, I would be charged with child abuse!" Also, consider this, in the Dominican Republic, which produces more top baseball players per-capita than any place on Earth, do the kids play anything BUT baseball? Soccer perhaps?

So, is it really better? I mean, really really? (I'm talking only in terms of baseball development, not social development, or friends, or anything other than becoming a better baseball player.) If we really wanted our kids to be the very best players they could be, why are we not adopting the gymnastics/swimming model? And better yet, how do they get away with it?

And if we wanted our kids to be drafted, or play at a major DI school, wouldn't we send them to showcases?

For intance, how many players drafted in the first three rounds (close to 90 players?) DID NOT attend a showcase?

Tom

[Knights Baseball]

Almost every HS player drafted now a days was seen at some showcase. There stilll is the accidental "go watch one kids and find another", but for the most part, kids that are drafted go to showcases all the time to get their name out.

[kylebee]

Almost every HS player drafted now a days was seen at some showcase. There stilll is the accidental "go watch one kids and find another", but for the most part, kids that are drafted go to showcases all the time to get their name out.

Like Wieters and Smoak, right? :)

The axiom of "If you're good enough to play in the majors, someone will find you" is probably true 99.9% of the time. However, marketing can play a big role in getting drafted higher than you normally would have by having a few good showcases and aggressively getting your name out there. Just take Ryan Mills, for example!

[Knights Baseball]

Another example of a lefty getting drafted way higher than he would have if he was right handed.

[Knights Baseball]

Yeah, i agree that scouts will most def find you if you have major league talent. The showcases kind of serves as a massive tryout where your kids talent can be assessed beside some of the best kids in the country. It is easier for scouts too, if they go to a perfect game showcase, they can see two hundred kids instead of two at a game.

[shake-n-bake]

So consider this:

Most "experts" will contend that it's better for kids to play other sports(and I don't disagree, my son is playing basketball for the first time and is also wrestling, and I see his athleticism imporove), to get athletic development they couldn't playing only baseball, but consider that gymnasts and swimmers reach an elite level at a young age relative to baseball (which is a skill game primarily, one might argue) and they are often totally focused on that one sport from a very very young age. I tell my students, "If I had my sons playing baseball the way you swimmers go, 4-6 days a week, two hours a day, I would be charged with child abuse!" Also, consider this, in the Dominican Republic, which produces more top baseball players per-capita than any place on Earth, do the kids play anything BUT baseball? Soccer perhaps?

So, is it really better? I mean, really really? (I'm talking only in terms of baseball development, not social development, or friends, or anything other than becoming a better baseball player.) If we really wanted our kids to be the very best players they could be, why are we not adopting the gymnastics/swimming model? And better yet, how do they get away with it?

Tom

This is so situational. There's a fine line with very little wiggle room between what's admirable and what's "parental pressure," "delusional parents," "parent that's overinvested in the kid's athletics," "overzealous parent," etc., etc.

Then there's overuse injury risks that could negate all that skill accumulated.

Can it be like the gymnastics model? I think it can. I used to tell my son a lot, "You're a skater buddy." He didn't realize what I meant for a long time.

A lot of people here have some experiences and formed opinions that this can have real negative results. I agree that it can, but given the right circumstances it doesn't have to be.

The KID has to have the desire and not see the time and effort as sacrifice. I saw an interview with Brandon Roy of the Portland Trail Blazers. This guy was in love with the game from his earliest memories and played tirelessly as a kid - often outside rain or shine, day and night. Did shooting hoops all day in his snowy driveway at 8 years old get him to the NBA? It didn't hurt his chances and he loved doing it. Of course, he turned out to be physically gifted as well.

Everyone would probably agree that it's about perspective and keeping it healthy and age appropriate. I think there's not one single perspective. Situations create differing perspectives and perspectives are not static. They are dynamic and evolve. Makes the term "age appropriate" a bit inaccurate. tominct's perspective is 4-6 days / 2 hrs. a day is (tongue in cheek I think) child abuse. Feb-Nov, that's a light week in another's perspective. Both, I believe can be totally accurate depending on the kid, his desire, his physical make-up, his attitude, and how HE feels about playing that much.

There are transferable skills learned in other sports that can carry over to each other, so I don't like the idea of specialization for specialization's sake. That said, I don't disagree with the commitment to a single sport over another and maintaining what the kid feels it takes to be competitive in that sport - staying within what's reasonable in terms of safety.

[shake-n-bake]

When my son was browsing the net for camps in our area he found a couple (one at a Division 1 college, the other put on by a AAA minor league team) that had camps for "Prospects." They were HS age groups. Is that a situation where kids come in for skill clinics and audition at the same time? Even if it wasn't the intent, coaches have eyes. They're going to see some kids with exceptional talent and perhaps actively recruit them.

[korp]

Showcases are a great way to get your name out there. Especially if you are an underrated player (more important if playing lower college levels or even smaller high schools). Why are they great? Very rarely do coaches and scouts get to see good players next to each other. How much time dedicated to any sport should be the decision of the athlete. Yes sometimes maybe they need that extra push from their parents/coaches for motivation but there is a fine line between a slight push and a major push. If you only really want to play one sport you can do some training type stuff or play other sports for fun and get that athleticism developed.

[TG Coach]

I saw some comments about Shwocases in the travel ball thread, but I thought I would start another thread about Showcases, but also baseball exclusivity in terms of development.

I have a neighbor who played for me in Middle School, and this past year he drafted by one of the major league teams. He spent the summers after his sophmore and junior years at Perfect Game, doing whatever it is they do at the Perfect Game Showcase. His father swears by it and will send the younger brother, a HS soph. there as well. Now, when the older boy was coming up, he played his LAST season of rec ball at 9, and then played for travel teams(not REC sponsored travel teams, but independent AAU teams) all the way up, sometimes more than 75 games a year, and in New England that's saying something.

Interestingly enough, neither of these boys played any other sport at the youth level. Nothing. In MS the older boy played hoops and again as a freshman in HS. The younger boy could have played anything he wanted and likely excelled, but he, to this day, plays only baseball, and growing up he went through a 2 year stint when he didn't even do that, but he will start as a Soph for the HS team this season, likely at short.

Now there are more and more independent teams to play for, but some rec leagues are getting into the year-round act, contracting time with local facilities to run clinics throughout the winter, and fall baseball is now common almost everywhere.

So consider this:

Most "experts" will contend that it's better for kids to play other sports(and I don't disagree, my son is playing basketball for the first time and is also wrestling, and I see his athleticism imporove), to get athletic development they couldn't playing only baseball, but consider that gymnasts and swimmers reach an elite level at a young age relative to baseball (which is a skill game primarily, one might argue) and they are often totally focused on that one sport from a very very young age. I tell my students, "If I had my sons playing baseball the way you swimmers go, 4-6 days a week, two hours a day, I would be charged with child abuse!" Also, consider this, in the Dominican Republic, which produces more top baseball players per-capita than any place on Earth, do the kids play anything BUT baseball? Soccer perhaps?

So, is it really better? I mean, really really? (I'm talking only in terms of baseball development, not social development, or friends, or anything other than becoming a better baseball player.) If we really wanted our kids to be the very best players they could be, why are we not adopting the gymnastics/swimming model? And better yet, how do they get away with it?

And if we wanted our kids to be drafted, or play at a major DI school, wouldn't we send them to showcases?

For intance, how many players drafted in the first three rounds (close to 90 players?) DID NOT attend a showcase?

Tom

There are two kinds of PG events. There are showcases and there are the WWBA tournaments. Showcases are run more like tryouts camps where the players skills are measured and judged before playing in scrimmages. WWBA tournaments are just that, baseball tournaments. College and pro scouts attend 18U PG events because they know several hundred of the top players in the country will attend. I believe 73% of American players in the last MLB draft attended a PG event.

There are other showcases that focus on specific school or conferences. Head First focuses on the top end academic schools for the top student-athletes. We have a local organization who puts on showcases for certain conferences (Ivy, Colonial, Patriot, etc) in the region.

Playing travel in the preteen years is not going to turn a player into a pro prospect. That kind of ability is innate. It's a matter of whether the athlete takes his development seriously post puberty.

People may think all the studs are just found. It's not true. All the studs in the baseball hotbeds are found. I know of a kid who was all set to attend a New England state university. He was from a town of 200. Then he took his 97 mph heater to a PG event. He signed for over $2M as a top five draft choice.

[TG Coach]

When my son was browsing the net for camps in our area he found a couple (one at a Division 1 college, the other put on by a AAA minor league team) that had camps for "Prospects." They were HS age groups. Is that a situation where kids come in for skill clinics and audition at the same time? Even if it wasn't the intent, coaches have eyes. They're going to see some kids with exceptional talent and perhaps actively recruit them.

Camps put on by college baseball programs help fund the spring trip. Usually anyone can attend. I spent four hours watching a local D1 camp/showcase. They had thirty-six kids there. They were running six of these sessions. I watched thirty-two dreamers and four with potential D1 swings. I commented to one of the current players. He told me the pitchers were discussing the lack of bat speed they were seeing. The net is the program found four players to look at further but made $5,400 for the day (36 * $150). Now multiply it out by six sessions.

[Knights Baseball]

I agree that the main idea behind camps are the money. I had a book that had the percentages of kids that play college and pro ball. College was a small percentage and pro was obviously even less. But coaches do keep their eye out. I think the best question for someone is not if camps are worth it. It is if your kids has a legit shot at going to a higher level. Once you or your kid are at this age of getting offers from colleges, I think parents need to have someone else eval their kids because parents sometime have a "different" point of view with their kids.:laugh

[tominct]

Like Wieters and Smoak, right? :)

The axiom of "If you're good enough to play in the majors, someone will find you" is probably true 99.9% of the time. However, marketing can play a big role in getting drafted higher than you normally would have by having a few good showcases and aggressively getting your name out there. Just take Ryan Mills, for example!

Huh? Ryan Mills....6'5 inch lefty throwing 93-95mph was a marketing mirage? Dude, get a clue. What was he, 9th overall pick? You know, he got his money, played a few years in the minors and had some injury issues.

Pitching major DI college basball, pitching in the College WOrld Series, and getting drafted in the FIRST ROUND is a career for anyone. Ryan Mills was not a marketing mirage.

[kylebee]

Huh? Ryan Mills....6'5 inch lefty throwing 93-95mph was a marketing mirage? Dude, get a clue. What was he, 9th overall pick? You know, he got his money, played a few years in the minors and had some injury issues.

Pitching major DI college basball, pitching in the College WOrld Series, and getting drafted in the FIRST ROUND is a career for anyone. Ryan Mills was not a marketing mirage.

A mirage? No. Helped by strong marketing by his father? Yes. Not interested in debating this further; simply execute a few Google searches about Ryan Mills to see how poor of a draft choice people thought it was at the time of the pick.

[GFK]

... Now, when the older boy was coming up, he played his LAST season of rec ball at 9, and then played for travel teams(not REC sponsored travel teams, but independent AAU teams) all the way up, sometimes more than 75 games a year, and in New England that's saying something.

... but consider that gymnasts and swimmers reach an elite level at a young age relative to baseball (which is a skill game primarily, one might argue) and they are often totally focused on that one sport from a very very young age. I tell my students, "If I had my sons playing baseball the way you swimmers go, 4-6 days a week, two hours a day, I would be charged with child abuse!" Also, consider this, in the Dominican Republic, which produces more top baseball players per-capita than any place on Earth, do the kids play anything BUT baseball? Soccer perhaps?

So, is it really better? I mean, really really? (I'm talking only in terms of baseball development, not social development, or friends, or anything other than becoming a better baseball player.) If we really wanted our kids to be the very best players they could be, why are we not adopting the gymnastics/swimming model? And better yet, how do they get away with it? ...

To go along with tominct's thoughts, take a look at what KA Ericsson has to say about "Deliberate Practice" and the development of Expertise.

http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/EricssonDeliberatePracticePR93.pdf

http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/classes/fa08/cse599/Papers/Ericsson.pdf

http://www.psy.fsu.edu/~wardlab/News/ScienCentral_Talent%20vs.%20Practice.pdf

[MPDad]

Very timely thread for me... I have a 10 year old who is faced with the commitment of travel ball or to be potentially left behind. I have my worries about burnout, injuries, etc. But on the other hand if he is to truly maximize his potential he must practice, practice, and practice.

Malcolm Gladwell has a new book called Outliers and he addresses this very issue. Among his premises, ground in his research, are 1) the better you are early the more exposure you get and that compounds over time. And it is tied closely with those kids who are born in the first part of the year since they are typically bigger, faster, etc. than kids born in the latter part of the year. 2) Something he calls his 10,000 hour rule in that it requires 10,000 hours of practice to become an expert or master in anything, i. e. music, sports, computers.

Gladwell offers many examples to back-up his premises and worth a read if you are interested.

[GFK]

... Malcolm Gladwell has a new book called Outliers and he addresses this very issue. Among his premises, ground in his research, are 1) the better you are early the more exposure you get and that compounds over time. And it is tied closely with those kids who are born in the first part of the year since they are typically bigger, faster, etc. than kids born in the latter part of the year. 2) Something he calls his 10,000 hour rule in that it requires 10,000 hours of practice to become an expert or master in anything, i. e. music, sports, computers.

Gladwell offers many examples to back-up his premises and worth a read if you are interested.

Actually, this 10,000 hour / 10 year "rule" was first discovered by Ericsson. It is more than simply practice. It requires "Deliberate Practice". Ericsson's papers details the difference between the two.

[GetYourBestSwing]

I would reccomend showcases to any players good enough to play college baseball. Ton of exposure.

I think it should be pointed out that you have to make sure the player actually has the skillset to play college baseball.

Some freshman and sophomores going to Perfect Game have no business being there and are just hurting themselves.

Just important to make sure they are actually good enough to be doing something like that.

[MPDad]

Actually, this 10,000 hour / 10 year "rule" was first discovered by Ericsson. It is more than simply practice. It requires "Deliberate Practice". Ericsson's papers details the difference between the two.

Point taken. Perhaps I should have clarified further in that Gladwell's research is more gathering others and presenting it in a broader concept and context.

[Jake Patterson]

Very timely thread for me... I have a 10 year old who is faced with the commitment of travel ball or to be potentially left behind. MP, There something very wrong with this statement. At 10 he should be having fun. Anyone telling you he will be left behid as a ten year old should not be coahcing ten years olds. These are 4th graders - not HS seniors.

[MPDad]

MP, There something very wrong with this statement. At 10 he should be having fun. Anyone telling you he will be left behid as a ten year old should not be coahcing ten years olds. These are 4th graders - not HS seniors.

I don't disagree with what you are claiming regarding having fun and I should have worded it better. No one said he would be left behind that was more my take and I don't think it is a definite that he will be if he doesn't participate. With that said however, it can be argued he could (not an exact science for sure). We are trying to find a balance. Last year we played travel and rec but had had enough and skipped fall ball and turned to basketball. There are others here who are going year round which I have serious questions and concerns with that mentality.

I do appreciate the input.

[HYP]

I don't disagree with what you are claiming regarding having fun and I should have worded it better. No one said he would be left behind that was more my take and I don't think it is a definite that he will be if he doesn't participate. With that said however, it can be argued he could (not an exact science for sure). We are trying to find a balance. Last year we played travel and rec but had had enough and skipped fall ball and turned to basketball. There are others here who are going year round which I have serious questions and concerns with that mentality.

I do appreciate the input.

My son and a handful of his peers that grew up together who played year around travel ball have left the ones who didn't behind. It was very evident when they reached high school. The ones who played travel ball had a much higher skill level, a much better understanding of the game and a better understanding of the speed of the game.

Not saying everyone will be left behind. The ones who are just incredible athletes can hang because of their God given talent but the others can get left behind.

[TG Coach]

Very timely thread for me... I have a 10 year old who is faced with the commitment of travel ball or to be potentially left behind. I have my worries about burnout, injuries, etc. But on the other hand if he is to truly maximize his potential he must practice, practice, and practice.

Your son will not be left behind by not playing at some elite (and I use the term lightly) level in the preteen years. In the preteen years on the smaller fields kids need to learn some basic skills, but most importantly build a passion for the game. If the kid has the passion and the ability when he gets on the 60/90 field you can focus harder on where he should be playing to develop. You really won't know what his potental is until post puberty.

[GFK]

MP, There something very wrong with this statement. At 10 he should be having fun. Anyone telling you he will be left behid as a ten year old should not be coahcing ten years olds. These are 4th graders - not HS seniors.

Jake, this is one of the few areas I disagree with you. IMO, you incorrectly assume that a 10 YO can not have fun with travel ball and a higher level of competition than offered by local rec leagues.

Your son will not be left behind by not playing at some elite (and I use the term lightly) level in the preteen years. In the preteen years on the smaller fields kids need to learn some basic skills, but most importantly build a passion for the game. If the kid has the passion and the ability when he gets on the 60/90 field you can focus harder on where he should be playing to develop. You really won't know what his potental is until post puberty.

I do agree the pre-teen focus needs to be on basic skills and building a passion for the game. In some / many instances, a travel / select team offers these opportunities but local rec teams do not.

To anyone interested, read the Ericsson articles I referenced in my earlier post. Then go to www.jockbio.com (http://www.jockbio.com) and read some of the bio's. You should be able to pick out the similarities in their training histories and what is stated in the Ericsson research.

[Mark H]

And it is tied closely with those kids who are born in the first part of the year since they are typically bigger, faster, etc. than kids born in the latter part of the year.

Could you expand on this? Thanks.

[Mark H]

Jake, this is one of the few areas I disagree with you. IMO, you incorrectly assume that a 10 YO can not have fun with travel ball and a higher level of competition than offered by local rec leagues.

Yeah. Different strokes for different folks. There's a volume and level of play suitable for any kid who wants to play. Would some be better served by rec ball part time? Sure. Would some be better served and have more fun playing with others of a higher level? Sure. Some folks make better choices than others. Doesn't mean one size fits all and we should limit their choices.

[MPDad]

Jake, this is one of the few areas I disagree with you. IMO, you incorrectly assume that a 10 YO can not have fun with travel ball and a higher level of competition than offered by local rec leagues.

I do agree the pre-teen focus needs to be on basic skills and building a passion for the game. In some / many instances, a travel / select team offers these opportunities but local rec teams do not.

To anyone interested, read the Ericsson articles I referenced in my earlier post. Then go to www.jockbio.com (http://www.jockbio.com) and read some of the bio's. You should be able to pick out the similarities in their training histories and what is stated in the Ericsson research.

Last year was our first for travel and all the kids appeared to have fun. It was a nice atmosphere traveling to the tournaments and competing. So yes, I believe they can have fun, too. It did wear thin near the end and our family, son included, had enough and elected to skip fall ball. It's all a matter of the atmosphere and intensity of practices (IMO).

There is a downside to travel and we saw that during our first year: too many pitches, out-of-control parents, lopsided competition, etc. But rec leagues are not exempt from those things either.

As I have just started immersing myself more into this, there is clearly a wide range of opinion and this is hardly an exact science.

[GFK]

... the better you are early the more exposure you get and that compounds over time. And it is tied closely with those kids who are born in the first part of the year since they are typically bigger, faster, etc. than kids born in the latter part of the year. ...

Could you expand on this? Thanks.

This has been documented to some extent by Ericsson. If you have a large group of kids within a specific age bracket, the older kids within the bracket tend to be more developed as a group. In sports, these kids are given preference to positions and playing time. Again, I am speaking of trends, not specific kids. Some researchers have shown a skew in the distribution of birthday months for elite athletes relative to the distribution for the general population. It is not because they were born under a better sign but because they were usually the oldest / biggest / strongest within their age bracket such that they were put into key positions and saw more playing time than others.

As a side note, if you collect batter stats for a team, notice how the No.s 1 thru 4 slot receive more plate appearances than the remainder of the team.

[Mark H]

OK so it's a sport specific age date cut off thing rather than a time of year thing. That I understand. Just checking.

[Mark H]

Head First focuses on the top end academic schools for the top student-athletes.

This is interesting. Could you expand on this? Is it regional or national? Is it just baseball?

[MPDad]

This has been documented to some extent by Ericsson. If you have a large group of kids within a specific age bracket, the older kids within the bracket tend to be more developed as a group. In sports, these kids are given preference to positions and playing time. Again, I am speaking of trends, not specific kids. Some researchers have shown a skew in the distribution of birthday months for elite athletes relative to the distribution for the general population. It is not because they were born under a better sign but because they were usually the oldest / biggest / strongest within their age bracket such that they were put into key positions and saw more playing time than others.

As a side note, if you collect batter stats for a team, notice how the No.s 1 thru 4 slot receive more plate appearances than the remainder of the team.

This is essentially what Gladwell claims and he uses Canadian Junior Hockey to prove his point. Their system is highly developed and he demonstrates that a majority of boys on their all star teams were born in Jan - Mar. Not an absolute but as GFK points out more of trends.

I'd recommend Gladwell's book (in fact all three of them). It's an interesting easy read.

[tominct]

This has been documented to some extent by Ericsson. If you have a large group of kids within a specific age bracket, the older kids within the bracket tend to be more developed as a group. In sports, these kids are given preference to positions and playing time. Again, I am speaking of trends, not specific kids.


This has become a nice conversation, and one of value, I think.

Anyway, my son will be an 11 year old this year, born in January. However, he is not one of the older kids. Now the older kids are all a grade ahead, which makes this decision easier for us. My son likes to pitch, and while he doesn't throw terribly hard, he does consistently throw strikes, and seems to have an inate ability to reduce pitching to its simplest form, make your pitch, field your position. Talk about having fun, he is in his element on the mound. Unfortunately, at the LL level, strikeouts are king and he pitches to contact, which in rec ball can have disasturous consequences. I asked him if he wanted to tryout for any of the local travel teams, figuring he could pitch for nay of the teams that play 50-70, but he told me in no uncertain terms, that he wanted to play with his friends. Great. Either way, he plays spring, summer and fall, and we work out a bit during the winter. No travel for us just yet, although the summer season amounts to that anyway, we spend as many hours in the car as we did playing hockey!

tom

[MPDad]

This has become a nice conversation, and one of value, I think.

Anyway, my son will be an 11 year old this year, born in January. However, he is not one of the older kids. Now the older kids are all a grade ahead, which makes this decision easier for us. My son likes to pitch, and while he doesn't throw terribly hard, he does consistently throw strikes, and seems to have an inate ability to reduce pitching to its simplest form, make your pitch, field your position. Talk about having fun, he is in his element on the mound. Unfortunately, at the LL level, strikeouts are king and he pitches to contact, which in rec ball can have disasturous consequences. I asked him if he wanted to tryout for any of the local travel teams, figuring he could pitch for nay of the teams that play 50-70, but he told me in no uncertain terms, that he wanted to play with his friends. Great. Either way, he plays spring, summer and fall, and we work out a bit during the winter. No travel for us just yet, although the summer season amounts to that anyway, we spend as many hours in the car as we did playing hockey!

tom

Fortunately for us, the travel squad is loaded with the friends because we don't have a huge population to draw from. So that does make a difference for us. It's the amount of practice for the upcoming year that is creating concerns.

And I agree, at the LL level even getting routine defensive plays are uncertain and can quickly undermine the confidence of a pitcher.

[Knights Baseball]

It use to be the other way around. In AAU the cut off use to be August. Also, I would be concerned with kids that are under 15 wanting to take a break. When they get into high school, that is when they need to push themselves and fight through burn out. College ball is a full time job that you dont get paid for and pro ball you play even more. I think that not playing travel ball is the biggest mistake that kids make before college. A travel ball season with a good team that practices when they dont play would really get a kid use to the kids of work they would do.

[Jake Patterson]

It use to be the other way around. In AAU the cut off use to be August. Also, I would be concerned with kids that are under 15 wanting to take a break. When they get into high school, that is when they need to push themselves and fight through burn out. College ball is a full time job that you dont get paid for and pro ball you play even more. I think that not playing travel ball is the biggest mistake that kids make before college. A travel ball season with a good team that practices when they dont play would really get a kid use to the kids of work they would do.
Please elaborate... Are you suggesting that 8th graders and freshman should be playing ball year-round?

[Mark H]

Not to answer for Knights but I've known kids you couldn't stop from playing year round and I've known others for whom ten games and twenty practices was too much. Depends on the kid's desires, make up, gifts and goals.

[Knights Baseball]

I feel that kids that are 14 and under should be allowed to play however much they want. 15 may have been the wrong age that i was talkin about. Lookin at it now, I would say that 15 would be the last year i would freely let a child decide what they want to do. After that, I would sit them down and ask " are you seriously going to try for a career in baseball". If the answer is yes, then i would seriously consider a highly competitive team that plays and practices all the time, because that is what the kid is going to do in college or higher. This introduces the kids to the lifestyle that he will have and help him make a better decision. If the kid says he really doesn't have an interest, then i would leave it up to him if he plays travel ball or not.

[Knights Baseball]

It use to be the other way around. In AAU the cut off use to be August. Also, I would be concerned with kids that are under 15 wanting to take a break. When they get into high school, that is when they need to push themselves and fight through burn out. College ball is a full time job that you dont get paid for and pro ball you play even more. I think that not playing travel ball is the biggest mistake that kids make before college. A travel ball season with a good team that practices when they dont play would really get a kid use to the kids of work they would do.

I didnt mean to say "would be concerned", I meant to say wouldn't be concerned. Sorry for the mistake and thanks for pointing it out, got a feeling that i would have had to explain that one a lot.

[TG Coach]

Yeah. Different strokes for different folks. There's a volume and level of play suitable for any kid who wants to play. Would some be better served by rec ball part time? Sure. Would some be better served and have more fun playing with others of a higher level? Sure. Some folks make better choices than others. Doesn't mean one size fits all and we should limit their choices.

From chat boards and from live conversations I get the feeling there are a lot of parents of preteen kids spending money they don't really have to spend out of fear their kid will fall behind the Jones' kid.

We also need to define travel. There are $100 community based travel and there are preteen travel teams that cost over $1,000.

[TG Coach]

Unfortunately, at the LL level, strikeouts are king and he pitches to contact, which in rec ball can have disasturous consequences. I asked him if he wanted to tryout for any of the local travel teams, figuring he could pitch for any of the teams that play 50-70 ....

Pitching to contact in travel can have it's disasterous consequences too. Pitchers face a lot better strength, skill and bat speed.

[soceric]

Could you expand on this? Thanks.

I can expand on it, because it's actually an interesting phenomenon. It basically goes like this...

Many sports have age cutoffs for each level of play. Because of this, at each level of play you have relatively older and younger kids that will be as much as a year apart in age. Now.. given that talent is pretty much distributed evenly across every month, the main advantage is that the older kids at each level have up to a year head start, and they on average are the ones who make the all-star team, and are selected out for better coaching, and "groomed". Over time the advantage becomes "huge".

[Mark H]

From chat boards and from live conversations I get the feeling there are a lot of parents of preteen kids spending money they don't really have to spend out of fear their kid will fall behind the Jones' kid.

We also need to define travel. There is $100 community based travel and there is preteen travel teams that cost over $1,000.

No doubt on both points.

[TG Coach]

This is interesting. Could you expand on this? Is it regional or national? Is it just baseball?

http://www.headfirstbaseball.com/sports_national_honor_baseball.jsp

[TG Coach]

I can expand on it, because it's actually an interesting phenomenon. It basically goes like this...

Many sports have age cutoffs for each level of play. Because of this, at each level of play you have relatively older and younger kids that will be as much as a year apart in age. Now.. given that talent is pretty much distributed evenly across every month, the main advantage is that the older kids at each level have up to a year head start, and they on average are the ones who make the all-star team, and are selected out for better coaching, and "groomed". Over time the advantage becomes "huge".

When I assembled my 13U travel team from the best LL all-star players in the district, when I gathered birth certificates I realized eleven of the thirteen players had birthdays by the middle of January (cut off date was August then). The two young ones with April and May birthdays were gifted with great speed despite their small stature. These kids are now high school sophs. The kid with the May birthday is now one of the biggest kids.

[Baseball gLove]

I feel that kids that are 14 and under should be allowed to play however much they want. 15 may have been the wrong age that i was talkin about. Lookin at it now, I would say that 15 would be the last year i would freely let a child decide what they want to do. After that, I would sit them down and ask " are you seriously going to try for a career in baseball". If the answer is yes, then i would seriously consider a highly competitive team that plays and practices all the time, because that is what the kid is going to do in college or higher. This introduces the kids to the lifestyle that he will have and help him make a better decision. If the kid says he really doesn't have an interest, then i would leave it up to him if he plays travel ball or not.


In South Cal this would be too late. Some high schools decide that an incoming 14 year old freshman is their starting shortstop for the next 4 years.
Very, very, very few kids that have not played travel/club ball get a chance to play on the team. They often need to make an impact as a freshman or they will not get another chance.

The high school my son plays for, faces many of the top teams in Southern California. One will often find that the parents from opposing teams will chat with each other because our kids have either played with or against each other over the years in club/travel ball.

I know the coaches at several high schools and they do not like their players in a second sport. My son played football and was offered a varsity spot on the soccer team as a freshman. The baseball coach suggested it would not be a good idea to continue football after the freshman year or to play soccer. My son transfered last year to a new school. The athletic director (the baseball coach) dismissed the idea of my son playing for the high school soccer team.

[Knights Baseball]

I agree that in some areas that is how it is. I am all for kids playing baseball all the time. The only thing is that if a kid doesnt love baseball or want to play it all the time, the only thing travel ball will do, in most cases, is make the kid want something different. It all goes back to what the kid wants. I played travelball almost every weekend from the time i was 13 until i was 18, and so did my highschool teammates. But that is what we loved to do and we never got tired of it. Everyone doesn't have the time, money, will, etc. to play baseball all the time. The first team we had in this area, our coach decided that we were going to be highly competitive, which means playing every weekend and practicing four time during the week. Eight players and I continued to play and loved ever minute, but the other half of our team did not play baseball past JV because they were sick of it. That is why I advocate playing competitve travel ball during high school. This will be a wake up call to many kids and would help college coaches not waste money and time on a kid that is going to get tired and quit in Nov. of his first year in college.

[Drill]

Just pick a college show case clinic (you like) and if you are good you will be seen and talked to.

Ask them to send you a evaluation of yours clinic stats on what needs to be improved to make there division level.

Sent my son to a pitcher catcher clinic and it turn out about half the young men were prospects. I just wanted to sent my son to get some good training at University of Virginia clinic.

The prospect show case clinic was the week after but it was obvious that some prospects came to the early clinic. Prospects had on different color t-shirts, but all and all they treated everyone the same. Coaches held the camp like a daily workout so the players under stood what to expect if the prospect played for Virginia.

My son got a good break down on what he needed to improve on as a catcher, batter and speed to play at a college in the ACC. Since he is a freshmen in High School I see it as a very beneficial understanding as what needs to happen if my son want to play at the next level.

Talked to a parent there who's son was in the top 350 HS player in the nation. He was going to different school show cases to see what kind of offers his son would get from D1 school. He was getting full and partial rides at some schools. His son played in the world wood bat league during the summertime, scouts from all levels came and watched.

I learned a lot just by hanging around in the stands and talking to other parents.