BBF VC Progressive HoF Contributors Election: 1930

[jjpm74]

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[Paul Wendt]

In Chicago a black man from Texas has done as much for the national game as William Hulbert, Al Spalding, Ban Johnson, or Charlie Comiskey.

Andrew Rube Foster is in poor health, no longer able to run the Negro National League or even the Chicago American Giants ballclub that he founded.

But he is only 50 years old. I suppose that he will be eligible here only upon his death.

[Paul Wendt]

Here are some birthdates of the earliest people marked 'c' in my desktop baseball database. I don't know the sources that I consulted. For example, this may or may not cover everyone who has been nominated or whose name has been mentioned for some recognition as a contributor to baseball.

1848 Candy Cummings
1851 Jim Mutrie
1851 Ted Sullivan
1855 John Gaffney
1859 Bob Emslie
1862 Jack Sheridan
1862 Hank O'Day
1863 Wilbert Robinson
1865 Barney Dreyfuss
1867 George Stallings
1867 Jack Ruppert
1869 John Heydler

[Paul Wendt]

Here are some relatively early people whom I do have marked as members of some class (and without any birthdates or career dates).
Why list them all here? One ulterior motive is that I would be grateful to get some approximate career dates without doing the primary or secondary research myself.

BBFHOF candidates
Ty Tyson
John B. Foster
Jack Norworth

BBFHOF members
J.G. Taylor Spink
Sy Berger
Charles Conlon

[Paul Wendt]

Tim Murnane
Murnane died more than ten years ago.

Charles Somers
Somers turned 60 a few weeks ago.
(is he eligible yet?)

[jjpm74]

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[jjpm74]

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[jjpm74]

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[Paul Wendt]

Candy Cummings is to remain on the palyers ballot as per DoubleX's instructions. Am I adding the rest from this list?
I don't want to overdo formal nominations myself.
Tonight my nominations for 1930 are in #2 and#5: Foster, Murnane, and Somers,
if all are eligible.

My purpose in #3-4 is to help stimulate everyone thinking about the election as well as the nominations, ie to provide "food for thought".

The difference between #3 and #4 is that I am missing the birthdates, and usually all career dates, for everyone in #4 --but I think I know they are early-ish baseballists who may be eligible here in 1930. So I have one ulterior motive in #4: someone else might provide some dates!

About the dozen-and-half in #3 and #4, I do have some other questions such as "Why did someone nominate or vote for John B. Foster?" and "Who is Sid Berger?" but those may be premature distractions given the early stage of this project with many much stronger candidates competing for attention.

[jjpm74]

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[bambambaseball]

Wilbert Robinson should be a definite!

[jjpm74]

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[jjpm74]

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[Paul Wendt]

All are eligible and have now been added. If you provide some background for the 2 from #5, it may help their cause. I'm assuming mosr participants have heard of Rube Foster.
I agree that Murnane and Somers need help but I doubt that I will make time this cycle. I have been away or on very short internet leash for the 10-day two-weekend, the last ten days of November this year. Last night and this morning I have wasted some time joining November and December 1 conversations and polls as a latecomer --certainly wasted from the perspective of Murnane and Somers! But what's done is done.

Cummings taught the curve to some pitchers at Yale (next door) or Princeton (not far). I suppose that the boys paid him. If/when that info finds me I will post it somewhere in this forum. Perhaps before 1935, as this five-year cycle covers some downtime, a slower 12-day two-weekend at end December and begin January.

[philkid3]

Because of Thanksgiving I was incommunicado (I don't know if that's spelled right), but I'll put together my home work and chrun out a vote here shortly.

[jjpm74]

gone...gob bye been fun

[jjpm74]

bye bye poefjefhoei'

[jjpm74]

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[BlueBlood]

My Ballot:

Candy Cummings
Rube Foster
Connie Mack
John Ward

I may expand this later depending on whether or not I feel we need to bulk up on contributors or not.

[jjpm74]

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[jjpm74]

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[Cowtipper]

John T. Brush
O. P. Caylor
Candy Cummings
Rube Foster
Garry Herrmann
Ban Johnson
Connie Mack
Francis Richter
Ben Shibe
Albert Goodwill Spalding
Alfred H. Spink

[PVNICK]

Alfred H. Spink
Ned Hanlon
Tim Murnane
Al Reach
Al Spalding

[henrich]

Frank C. Bancroft
Candy Cummings
Rube Foster
Connie Mack
Wilbert Robinson
Frank Selee
Al Spalding
John Ward

[jalbright]

Definites:

Rube Foster
Ned Hanlon
Ban Johnson
Connie Mack
Frank Selee

[philkid3]

This may be expanded.

Rube Foster
Ban Johnson
Connie Mack
Al Spalding

[leecemark]

Ned Hanlan
Al Reach

[Paul Wendt]

Footballs are the national sports so eleven is a good number.
add: but they are now a dozen

Frank C. Bancroft
Rube Foster
Ned Hanlon
Connie Mack
Frank Selee

add: Ban Johnson
Al Reach
Francis Richter
Charles Somers
Albert Goodwill Spalding
Alfred H. Spink
John Ward


Probably I will vote for some more of the following but the eleven should stand if I do not make it back.

O.P. Caylor
Candy Cummings
Bob Ferguson
Tim Murnane
Frank Osborn
Wilbert Robinson
Ben Shibe

[jjpm74]

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[bambambaseball]

Frank C. Bancroft
Morgan Bulkeley
Candy Cummings
Bob Ferguson
Rube Foster
Ned Hanlon
Connie Mack
A.G. Mills
Al Reach
Wilbert Robinson
Frank Selee
Ben Shibe
Arthur Soden
Harry Stevens
Chris von der Ahe

[DoubleX]

I was thinking, maybe we should conduct the contributors and players elections in different years. This might help to ease problems with guys like Clark Griffith, Candy Cummings, and perhaps Frank Chance down the road. We won't have to worry about the chance of simultaneous election and it might make things generally a little clearer.

[dgarza]

Cap Anson
Morgan Bulkeley
Rube Foster
Ned Hanlon
Connie Mack
A.G. Mills
Al Reach
Francis Richter
Frank Selee
Albert Goodwill Spalding
Alfred H. Spink
John Ward

[jjpm74]

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[jalbright]

Some people are just habitually last-minute types--nothing more, nothing less.

[DoubleX]

Why don't we do contributors on the years that end with a 6 and a 1, then. That'll be fine. I would like to see you incorporate the results into your intro post in the voting threads either way. ;)

Sorry, I keep meaning to do that and haven't got around to it yet. Also, it looks like we might get a subforum just for this project, in which case I might make a master thread in there summarizing all the information.

Here's my ballot:

Ban Johnson
Ned Hanlon
Connie Mack
Al Reach
Frank Selee
Al Spalding
Al Spink

[AG2004]

Candy Cummings
Bob Ferguson
Rube Foster
Clark Griffith
Ban Johnson
Connie Mack
Al Reach
Francis Richter
Frank Selee
Ben Shibe
Al Spalding

----
I don't know how we missed this, but Johnson was born in 1864, which would make him eligible for this ballot. Griffith, who was born in 1869, would also qualify.

[OOC: Griffith will be around for over two more decades. Johnson, however, will die in March 1931. Any chance of an extension to rectify this oversight?]

[jjpm74]

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[philkid3]

Added Ban Johnson

[Paul Wendt]

in a moment I will add Ban Johnson (done).
It does seem that he is out of power for good.

from Wikipedia: Ban Johnson
. . . Landis would only accept an appointment as sole Commissioner of Baseball, with unlimited power over the game.[8] The owners were still reeling from the damage to baseball's reputation due to the Black Sox Scandal, and readily agreed to Landis' demands.[8]

Under the circumstances, a clash between the iron-willed Johnson and the iron-willed Landis was inevitable, and it happened prior to the 1924 World Series. Landis banned two New York Giants from the Series for attempting to bribe members of the Philadelphia Phillies late in the season. After Frankie Frisch and two other Giants stars were implicated, only to be cleared by Landis, Johnson demanded that the Series be canceled. He publicly criticized Landis for his handling of the affair, and Landis threatened to resign if the AL owners didn't rein Johnson in. After the Series, the AL owners promised to remove Johnson from office if he stepped out of line again. Johnson remained on good behavior for two years, even getting an extension of his contract to 1935 and a raise to $40,000 (he'd previously made $25,000).

However, in 1926, Johnson criticized Landis for granting Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker an amnesty after evidence surfaced that they had fixed a game in 1919. Landis demanded that the AL choose between him and Johnson. The AL owners were prepared to remove Johnson from office at their annual meeting in January 1927. However, Johnson was in ill health at the time, and the owners decided to put him on an indefinite sabbatical instead. Johnson tried to return in the spring and acted as if nothing had changed. However, the situation had become untenable, and Johnson was forced to resign at the end of the season.[2] He was replaced by longtime Indians general manager Ernest Barnard.

[leecemark]

Ned Hanlan
Ban Johnson
Al Reach


--Although in principal I think adding candidates mid-way - or really at any point after the voting has started - is a bad idea I have added Johnson to my ballot. In the future I strongly suggest that anyone who doesn't get nominated inthe preliminary phase just wait until the next election.

[AG2004]

Here are some relatively early people whom I do have marked as members of some class (and without any birthdates or career dates).
Why list them all here? One ulterior motive is that I would be grateful to get some approximate career dates without doing the primary or secondary research myself.

BBFHOF candidates
Ty Tyson
John B. Foster
Jack Norworth

BBFHOF members
J.G. Taylor Spink
Sy Berger
Charles Conlon


Ty Tyson - born May 11, 1888
John B. Foster - born July 16, 1863
Jack Norworth - born January 5, 1879
J.G. Taylor Spink - born November 16, 1888
Sy Berger - born 1922 or 1923. A June 6, 2004 interview with Berger at the SABR website indicated that he was 81 years old at the time.
Charles Conlon - born 1868 according to Library of Congress info.



--Although in principal I think adding candidates mid-way - or really at any point after the voting has started - is a bad idea I have added Johnson to my ballot. In the future I strongly suggest that anyone who doesn't get nominated inthe preliminary phase just wait until the next election.


I think most of us were working under the assumption that jjpm74 was updating his list of candidates to reflect major candidates who met the age limit (as DoubleX was doing with players in the Progressive Hall).

[Paul Wendt]

He did explain back in 1922 or 1924, whenever he succeeded Classic as caretaker, that the group would be responsible for nominating candidates. Now we all have a reminder.

I wasn't paying attention. Frankly, I no longer keep all of the "halls" straight. I need to look it up. Look up what? Anything.

[jjpm74]

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[jjpm74]

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[Paul Wendt]

Congratulations to Cornelius, Andrew, and Albert Goodwill.

Given what I know of all the circumstances, I expect that in 1935 we will elect Byron Bancroft and another one of his right-hand men, Clark Calvin. (There were at least five fingers in his right fist.)

Ned Hanlon, Frank Selee, and Al Reach need two or three more votes, no small matter here*, and the others will get nowhere without persuasive arguments.

*How many ballots were cast?
(I do not believe that "no vote" can be interpreted as a No vote on every candidate. If only 11 or 10 ballots then one or two more votes may be relatively easy to pick up.)

--
AlbertGoodwill2004, thanks for the vital data.

[BlueBlood]

Spalding elected twice????????????????????????????????????? :nosleep:

[Cowtipper]

Spalding elected twice????????????????????????????????????? :nosleep:

We must really like him.

[jalbright]

I'm simply caretaker in this project. This is way out of my area of expertise so I'm not checking and auto-updating. It is up to the committee to nominate people to the master ballot. If I notice an obvious person, I'll nominate them myself, but otherwise, I have no database to work off of to nominate contributors. ;)

I'll provide a "database", which I sent to you in a PM, which I'm using for the Best of Baseball Project. It has all the HOFers plus vote getters in the BBF HOF project, plus a few more. The only thing which needs to be done is to use the criteria for eligibility in this project with the dates of birth and death provided (noting that "2100" for date of death was simply a way of indicating the individual was still alive). This listing is in the chronological format of my project:


Lname Fname Birth Death
Abe Iso 1865 1949
Adams Doc 1814 1899
Anson Cap 1852 1922
Bancroft Frank 1846 1921
Barrow Ed 1868 1953
Bulkely Morgan 1837 1922
Cartwright Alexander 1820 1892
Chadwick Harry 1824 1908
Chance Frank 1876 1924
Commiskey Charlie 1859 1931
Conlan Charles 1868 1945
Connolly Tom 1870 1961
Creighton Jim 1841 1862
Cummings Candy 1848 1924
Dreyfuss Barney 1865 1932
Dunn Jack 1872 1928
Foster Rube 1879 1930
Gleason Kid 1866 1933
Griffith Clark 1869 1955
Hanlon Ned 1857 1937
Huggins Miller 1878 1929
Hulbert William 1832 1882
Johnson Ban 1864 1931
Landis Kenesaw 1866 1944
Lardner Ring 1885 1933
Leavitt, Jr. Charles W. 1871 1928
Mack Connie 1862 1956
McCarthy Tommy 1863 1922
McGraw John 1873 1934
Mendez Jose 1887 1928
Moran Pat 1876 1924
Mutrie Jim 1851 1938
Osborn Frank 1857 1922
Reach A. J. 1840 1928
Richter Francis 1854 1926
Robinson Wilbert 1863 1934
Selee Frank 1859 1909
Shibe Ben 1838 1922
Spalding Al 1850 1915
Taylor C. I. 1875 1922
Thayer Ernest 1863 1940
Ward John M. 1860 1925
Warfield Frank 1895 1932
White Sol 1868 1955
Wilson Horace 1843 1927
Wright George 1847 1937
Wright Harry 1835 1895
Clarke Fred 1872 1960
Elias Al Munro 1872 1938
Klem Bill 1874 1951
Cooper Andy 1898 1941
Wilkinson J. L. 1878 1964
Norworth Jack 1879 1959
Rice Grantland 1880 1954
Bolden Ed 1881 1950
Rickey Branch 1881 1965
Krichell Paul 1882 1957
Street Gabby 1882 1951
Carrigan Bill 1883 1969
Harridge Willie 1883 1971
Posey Cum 1890 1946
Evans Billy 1884 1956
Shoriki Matsutaro 1885 1969
McKechnie Bill 1886 1965
McCarthy Joe 1887 1978
Spink J G Taylor 1888 1962
Tyson Ty 1888 1968
Greenlee Gus 1893 1952
Cambria Joe 1890 1962
Gonzalez Mike 1890 1977
Luque Dolf 1890 1957
MacPhail Larry 1890 1975
Pompez Alex 1890 1974
Stengel Casey 1890 1975
Charleston Oscar 1896 1954
O'Neill Steve 1891 1962
Pasquel Jorge 1907 1955
Southworth Billy 1893 1969
Frick Ford 1894 1978
Weiss George 1894 1972
Dykes Jimmy 1896 1976
Giles Warren 1896 1979
Harris Bucky 1896 1977
O'Doul Lefty 1897 1969
Chandler Happy 1898 1991
Grimm Charlie 1898 1983
Cochrane Mickey 1903 1962
Conlon Jocko 1899 1989
Dyer Eddie 1899 1964
Hubbard Cal 1900 1977
Manley Effa 1900 1981
Hutchinson Fred 1919 1964
Sewell Luke 1901 1987
O'Malley Walter 1903 1979
Yawkey Tom 1903 1976
Dihigo Martin 1905 1971
Durocher Leo 1905 1991
Harris Vic 1905 1978
Smith Red 1905 1982
Canel Buck 1906 1980
Barber Red 1908 1992
Lopez Al 1908 2005
Richards Paul 1908 1986
Hodges Gil 1924 1972
Mizuhara Shigeru 1909 1982
Robinson Jackie 1919 1972
Dean Dizzy 1910 1974
Alston Walter 1911 1984
O'Neill Buck 1911 2006
Allen Mel 1913 1996
Murtaugh Danny 1917 1976
Caray Harry 1914 1998
Veeck Bill 1914 1986
Barlick Al 1915 1995
Rizzuto Phil 1916 2007
Tsuruoka Kazuto 1916 2000
Boudreau Lou 1917 2001
MacPhail Lee 1917 2100
Miller Marvin 1917 2100
Harwell Ernie 1918 2100
Chylak Nestor 1922 1982
Gowdy Curt 1919 2006
Pesky Johnny 1919 2100
Kawakami Tetsuharu 1920 2100
Dark Alvin 1922 2100
Ritter Lawrence 1922 2004
Doby Larry 1923 2003
Schoendienst Red 1923 2100
Berger Sy 1924 2100
Buck Jack 1924 2002
Jobe Frank 1925 2100
Kuenn Harvey 1930 1988
Davids Bob 1926 2002
Kuhn Bowie 1926 2007
Martin Billy 1928 1989
Ashburn Richie 1927 1997
Lasorda Tommy 1927 2100
Scully Vin 1927 2100
Williams Dick 1929 2100
Drysdale Don 1936 1993
Steinbrenner George 1930 2100
Weaver Earl 1930 2100
Herzog Whitey 1931 2100
Virdon Bill 1931 2100
Anderson Sparky 1934 2100
Flood Curt 1938 1997
Alou Felipe 1935 2100
Nomura Katsuya 1935 5100
Nagashima Shigeo 1936 2100
Neft David 1936 2100
Kaat Jim 1938 2100
Palmer Pete 1938 2100
Bouton Jim 1939 2100
Doucet Jacques 1940 2100
Santo Ron 1940 2100
Schuerholtz John 1940 2100
Torre Joe 1940 2100
Cox Bobby 1941 2100
McCarver Tim 1941 2100
Fregosi Jim 1942 2100
Lanier Hal 1942 2100
Johnson Davey 1943 2100
Piniella Lou 1943 2100
LaRussa Tony 1944 2100
Bowa Larry 1945 2100
Messersmith Andy 1945 2100
Watson Bob 1946 2100
Boone Bob 1947 2100
Okrent Dan 1948 2100
Baker Dusty 1949 2100
Baylor Don 1949 2100
Garner Phil 1949 2100
Hargrove Mike 1949 2100
James Bill 1949 2100
Giannoulas Ted 1953 2100
Spear Joe 1953 2100
Randolph Willie 1954 2100
Guillen Ozzie 1964 2100


I do have some Japanese individuals in the listing, which need to be weeded out for this project.