What do you think of packsearching?

[nepats3912]

love it? hate it? do it often? almost never?

[Dalkowski110]

Oh geez, not ANOTHER thread on this...:ughh

[RuthMayBond]

love it? hate it? do it often? almost never?LOVE IT :rofl:

[MadHatter]

Booooooooo hate it.

Takes the fun out of it.

[RuthMayBond]

Booooooooo hate it.

Takes the fun out of it.I always thought getting inserts WAS fun

[weberd72]

I absolutely hate it. I have a Target store near my work with plenty of loose packs. One day, I saw some scum emptying every single box in the store (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL), and feeling up each pack. Now I won't buy any single packs anymore because there's basically no chance of getting any of the good stuff.

[RuthMayBond]

I absolutely hate it. I have a Target store near my work with plenty of loose packs. One day, I saw some scum emptying every single box in the store (MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL), and feeling up each pack. Now I won't buy any single packs anymore because there's basically no chance of getting any of the good stuff.So the card companies bear no responsibility for having virtually nil good inserts, or for making the packs more searchable?

[Cowtipper]

I've tried it before and I'm not good at it. I don't really care whether people do it or not.

[RuthMayBond]

I've tried it before and I'm not good at it. I don't really care whether people do it or not.What packs are in your stores? That is, assuming that you won't worry that I'm "obsessing over you", will "troll" you, or that I can even contribute anything constructive.

[Captain Cold Nose]

So the card companies bear no responsibility for having virtually nil good inserts, or for making the packs more searchable?

Nil? Did you seriously say nil?

They bear the brunt of it but the collectors who search pack after pack after pack like the one mentioned in weberd's post do spoil it for collectors.

It's on the card companies to mix things up a bit better and the stores to better police the killjoys. Vultures are vultures regardless.

[RuthMayBond]

Nil? Did you seriously say nil?Have you seriously not heard of the term?

<They bear the brunt of it>

:eek:

<It's on the stores to better police the killjoys.>

It's on the stores to prevent customers from buying a particular version of an item they want? And nice how no one ever mentions dealers who do it too

[RuthMayBond]

Vultures are vultures regardless.What does Phil Regan have to do with this?

[RuthMayBond]

Nil? Did you seriously say nil?

They bear the brunt of it but the collectors who search pack after pack after pack like the one mentioned in weberd's post do spoil it for collectors.

It's on the card companies to mix things up a bit better and the stores to better police the killjoys. Vultures are vultures regardless.Thanks for reminding me. I got one Upper Deck Masterpieces pack today. See the Pack Pull thread

[Captain Cold Nose]

Have you seriously not heard of the term?

<They bear the brunt of it>

:eek:

<It's on the stores to better police the killjoys.>

It's on the stores to prevent customers from buying a particular version of an item they want? And nice how no one ever mentions dealers who do it too

I have heard the term nil. It's just not one you see often in general conversation.

It's on the store to make sure people aren't coming in and tearing up the peapatch that someone took the time to stock. If you were stocking shelves and you watched someone tear up the salad dressing section, wouldn't you say something, respectfully of course?

Dealers are consumers in this case, and they're the worst of the lot. They'll rifle through their own stock and then go about and try to do it to someone else's.

[RuthMayBond]

It's on the store to make sure people aren't coming in and tearing up the peapatch that someone took the time to stock. If you were stocking shelves and you watched someone tear up the salad dressing section, wouldn't you say something, respectfully of course?
Almost all the time, I leave a card section tidier than I first found it.
Next issue?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Almost all the time, I leave a card section tidier than I first found it.
Next issue?

If you were the only one searching through packs, that would be fine. You're in the minority in that regard, though. You being considerate enough to do that doesn't excuse the rest who add that insult to injury.

[RuthMayBond]

If you were the only one searching through packs, that would be fine.You don't know how much I agree with that

<You're in the minority in that regard, though. You being considerate enough to do that doesn't excuse the rest who add that insult to injury.>

But as far as me, maybe you guys will keep the torches & pitchforks at home?

[bryanspellman]

Hate it! Mostly because it ruins the hobby for the KIDS!!! I buy boxes or blasters, never packs unless it is just to see the cards then it doesn't matter to me, just getting a feel of the set.

But man I watch little kids run up and buy the pokemon and such and then a baseball or football and think what a chance for this kid to get a GU or Auto and totally jump in! But no, all the packs are crumpled because some Joe Collector sat there for a few hours one day and hit all those cards...

[RuthMayBond]

But man I watch little kids run up and buy the pokemon and such and then a baseball or footballThat's more than I've seen

<and think what a chance for this kid to get a Auto and totally jump in!>

Maybe my fellow searchers have beaten me to the punch, but did you want to guess how many autos (even better, guess how many baseball) I've gotten in maybe ten years of searching?

[dabigyankeeman]

Am i the only person left in the world who collects baseball cards because i like them, and i dont care about inserts. I just want cards of teams and players i like, and cards with great action shots on them. If i open a pack with an insert card, 99% of the time i consider it ugly or of a player or team that i dont care about anyway. I would rather buy the few inserts i like on Ebay or in a card shop. I think its tragic that kids are taught today that they dont have a good collection if they only have base cards. What ever happened to just plain enjoying baseball cards? :confused:

[Extra Innings]

Am i the only person left in the world who collects baseball cards because i like them, and i dont care about inserts. I just want cards of teams and players i like, and cards with great action shots on them. If i open a pack with an insert card, 99% of the time i consider it ugly or of a player or team that i dont care about anyway. I would rather buy the few inserts i like on Ebay or in a card shop. I think its tragic that kids are taught today that they dont have a good collection if they only have base cards. What ever happened to just plain enjoying baseball cards? :confused:

People are spoiled by the auto/relic card. I enjoy collecting cards and if I get one in a pack then thats great! I don't go out of my way to seek one out. I think they are good for the hobby, but some are just taken over by them and thats all they really care about.

[RuthMayBond]

Am i the only person left in the world who collects baseball cards because i like them. I just want cards of teams and players i like, and cards with great action shots on them. What ever happened to just plain enjoying baseball cards? :confused:I don't know. Just of Barry Bonds, I have about 800 different cards, and I guarantee you they're not close to all inserts

[priceyeah]

I absolutely hate insert cards. I long for the good old days when cards were bought with the goal of compiling a complete set (my goal at least). Short prints are even worse. It has gotten so bad that I've ended up with 3 or 4 copies of an insert card trying to complete a set. 2008 will be the last year a will try for a set of any type. I think I'll stick to buying singles from earlier years when there was only one rookie card for a player. It's amazing to think that a Hall Of Fame player could have had only 20 or 30 cards issued during there whole playing career back before the 80's. Now a player could have that many each year!

[Dalkowski110]

"Short prints are even worse."

Neither the Topps nor the Upper Deck base set features short prints.

"Now a player could have that many each year!"

Technically, he probably could but highly unlikely. There are 20 sets in total issued each year after the 2006 MLBPA reforms.

[mybaseballcardspace]

I think pack searching is unethical and that it should not be done. It is giving someone an unfair advantage and means that once one person gets the good cards out of the packs at the store, everyone else is going to pay full price and get cards not worth it. I think that if you need to make money from cards that there are better ways to do it.

[RuthMayBond]

I think pack searching is unethical and that it should not be done. It is giving someone an unfair advantage and means that once one person gets the good cards out of the packs at the store, everyone else is going to pay full price and get cards not worth it.If only it were that simple

<I think that if you need to make money from cards that there are better ways to do it.>

Like Barack Obama, I'm all ears

[Captain Cold Nose]

What if the card companies were to increase the amount of premiums in boxes and/or do something with the regular cards so as to make the premiums less detectable?

Would that increase sales? Would that increase prices?

[RuthMayBond]

What if the card companies were to increase the amount of premiums in boxesThat would have to increase sales (and probably prices)

<and/or do something with the regular cards so as to make the premiums less detectable?>

I can't begin to surmise how it would affect prices, but it would decrease sales to me

[Captain Cold Nose]

That would have to increase sales (and probably prices)

<and/or do something with the regular cards so as to make the premiums less detectable?>

I can't begin to surmise how it would affect prices, but it would decrease sales to me

So the increased possibility of a premium pull would deter you? Do you only buy from full boxes knowing those packs haven't been searched yet? Or do you take a chance and search throuhg the boxes that have some packs already gone?

[RuthMayBond]

So the increased possibility of a premium pull would deter you?Way to put words in my mouth

<Do you only buy from full boxes knowing those packs haven't been searched yet? Or do you take a chance and search throuhg the boxes that have some packs already gone?>

I take the chance, almost impossible to find a new box

[Captain Cold Nose]

Way to put words in my mouth

<Do you only buy from full boxes knowing those packs haven't been searched yet? Or do you take a chance and search throuhg the boxes that have some packs already gone?>

I take the chance, almost impossible to find a new box

It was simply a follow-up question, not an assumption of your methods or motivations. As all those questions were.

So you're just a collector with a "cheat" as it would be called in the video gaming world. Not the real problem at all.

I can't see them not raising the prices if they were to increase the premium pulls. I'm curious as to how much giving up a little price for a betetr shot at a premium would turn away or increase buyers.

[RuthMayBond]

It was simply a follow-up question, not an assumption of your methods or motivations. As all those questions were.No, it was a question implying I was dumb, re-read it

<So you're just a collector with a "cheat" as it would be called in the video gaming world. Not the real problem at all.>

Not according to the two threads

<I'm curious as to how much giving up a little price for a betetr shot at a premium would turn away or increase buyers.>

Heck, prices are already high, what's a little more? I'm hitting at least two more card places tonight, maybe three, and maybe one more tomorrow

[RuthMayBond]

Do you only buy from full boxes knowing those packs haven't been searched yet? Or do you take a chance and search throuhg the boxes that have some packs already gone?A couple weeks ago I even saw an individual PACK where I didn't have to do anything yet it was clear that it had an artist proof numbered out of 32

[StormSurge]

I've noticed some packs that I've picked up at Target have "dummy" cards in them. Basically just extra thick pieces of cardboard. I'm assuming they're included to thwart pack searchers.

[RuthMayBond]

I've noticed some packs that I've picked up at Target have "dummy" cards in them. Basically just extra thick pieces of cardboard. I'm assuming they're included to thwart pack searchers.Absolutely. If you can see that they're white and not colored, that's generally an indication that they're dummy cards

[Captain Cold Nose]

No, it was a question implying I was dumb, re-read it

<So you're just a collector with a "cheat" as it would be called in the video gaming world. Not the real problem at all.>

Not according to the two threads

<I'm curious as to how much giving up a little price for a betetr shot at a premium would turn away or increase buyers.>

Heck, prices are already high, what's a little more? I'm hitting at least two more card places tonight, maybe three, and maybe one more tomorrow


It was my question, I think I know what it was, an open-ended question meant to elicit some sort of response. If you interpret it your way, I think you're looking for things to be defensive about. There isn't.

Opinions vary. Like everything, I think there are varying degress of how bad each type of pack searcher is. There are worse folks than you doing this.

[Captain Cold Nose]

A couple weeks ago I even saw an individual PACK where I didn't have to do anything yet it was clear that it had an artist proof numbered out of 32

They're doing your job for you. Or anyone else who might have came along.

[RuthMayBond]

It was my question, I think I know what it was, an open-ended question meant to elicit some sort of response. If you interpret it your way, I think you're looking for things to be defensive about. There isn't.If that is your only parameter, what person in their right mind would answer Yes to "So the increased possibility of a premium pull would deter you?"

<Like everything, I think there are varying degress of how bad each type of pack searcher is. There are worse folks than you doing this.>

I had no idea Osama Bin Laden searched packs :eek:

[Captain Cold Nose]

If that is your only parameter, what person in their right mind would answer Yes to "So the increased possibility of a premium pull would deter you?"

<Like everything, I think there are varying degress of how bad each type of pack searcher is. There are worse folks than you doing this.>

I had no idea Osama Bin Laden searched packs :eek:

You'd be surprised. It's something I picked up studying journalism and it actually works in allowing people to further expand their answer. Thus, it's called an open-ended question. Like this: "Yes, it would deter me, because it takes away the one advantage I have over everyone else now," or "It would deter me, because I limit the amount I spend on packs of cards and I might wind up with a lesser premium than what else is in the box as opposed to before when I know there's only one premkum in there."

Bin Laden was notorious. One reason why he hates the West is because he spent so much money searching for A-Rod and Jeter premiums but kept pulling Don Dokken.

[RuthMayBond]

You'd be surprised. It's something I picked up studying journalism and it actually works in allowing people to further expand their answer. Thus, it's called an open-ended question.I always thought those were questions that couldn't be answered with a yes/no

<Like this: "Yes, it would deter me, because it takes away the one advantage I have over everyone else now,">

It would increase my possibility

<or "It would deter me, because I limit the amount I spend on packs of cards and I might wind up with a lesser premium than what else is in the box as opposed to before when I know there's only one premkum in there.">

As I've said, I ain't that good.

<Bin Laden was notorious. One reason why he hates the West is because he spent so much money searching for A-Rod and Jeter premiums but kept pulling Don Dokken.>

If you please excuse me, I must go feed my camel :eek:

[Dalkowski110]

I said it before and I'll say it again: the only accurate way of searching a pack is with a powder measure scale that weighs about 10 pounds and/or a set of calipers (must be accurate within a thousandth of an inch) that costs over $100. Nobody is going to get anything feeling down a baseball card pack from 2006 or after. Whilst I hate to burst your bubble in that regard, RMB, I do hope to preserve your reputation. ;) Seriously, anyone who feels down a baseball card pack (it's different in other sports, I believe) is just wasting their time. The companies' countermeaures against anything but either a powder measure or a set of calipers is simply too great. Incidentally, I have nothing against packsearching, though do not myself do it.

[RuthMayBond]

Nobody is going to get anything feeling down a baseball card pack from 2006 or after.I have more than a dozen game-used that say you might be wrong (what happened in 2006?) I told you I just got the Bedard earlier this week :crazy:

[RuthMayBond]

I said it before and I'll say it again: the only accurate way of searching a pack is with a powder measure scale that weighs about 10 pounds and/or a set of calipers (must be accurate within a thousandth of an inch) that costs over $100. Nobody is going to get anything feeling down a baseball card pack from 2006 or after. Whilst I hate to burst your bubble in that regard, RMB, I do hope to preserve your reputation. ;) Seriously, anyone who feels down a baseball card pack (it's different in other sports, I believe) is just wasting their time. Good, then nobody should be mad at me at all :highfive:

[StormSurge]

I always thought those were questions that couldn't be answered with a yes/no

<Like this: "Yes, it would deter me, because it takes away the one advantage I have over everyone else now,">

It would increase my possibility

<or "It would deter me, because I limit the amount I spend on packs of cards and I might wind up with a lesser premium than what else is in the box as opposed to before when I know there's only one premkum in there.">

As I've said, I ain't that good.

<Bin Laden was notorious. One reason why he hates the West is because he spent so much money searching for A-Rod and Jeter premiums but kept pulling Don Dokken.>

If you please excuse me, I must go feed my camel :eek:

Don Dokken > Derek Jeter. Rocking w/ Dokken!!! :dance

[Dalkowski110]

Check the edited version of my post out, RMB. Note that I said it's different in other sports. In 2006, as part of the MLBPA's all-encompassing reforms, they put in certain weight and width countermeasure requirements (usually with the addition of blank cardboard inserts or advertisements) that before 2006 did not exist or were merely the responsibility of the card companies.

"I told you I just got the Bedard earlier this week"

Believe me, it's a coincidence. Especially with UD Masterpieces.

[RuthMayBond]

Don Dokken > Derek Jeter. Rocking w/ Dokken!!! :danceGood, then you'll trade me your Jeter sig for my Dokken sig :highfive:

[RuthMayBond]

Check the edited version of my post out, RMB. Note that I said it's different in other sports. In 2006, as part of the MLBPA's all-encompassing reforms, they put in certain weight and width countermeasure requirements (usually with the addition of blank cardboard inserts or advertisements) that before 2006 did not exist or were merely the responsibility of the card companies.Other sports are definitely easier, but what sport do you think Erik Bedard plays?

[Dalkowski110]

"but what sport do you think Erik Bedard plays?"

Like I said, it's a coincidence. If it makes you feel better, as a sort of a "placebo," you can keep on feeling packs. I have zero problems with it. I'm just saying that you're not going to find too much and you may actually get thrown off from an autographed insert, for example (For some reason, there is a popular myth that all insert-laden packs are heavier...WRONG! Packs with autographs are always lighter, albeit only very slightly. Further, the card companies will still put in the cardboard insert, something they didn't do prior to 2006.).

[RuthMayBond]

Check the edited version of my post out, RMB. Note that I said it's different in other sports. In 2006, as part of the MLBPA's all-encompassing reforms, they put in certain weight and width countermeasure requirements (usually with the addition of blank cardboard inserts or advertisements) that before 2006 did not exist or were merely the responsibility of the card companies.How the heck would that hurt me if I never had a scale or calipers anyway?

<"I told you I just got the Bedard earlier this week"

Believe me, it's a coincidence. Especially with UD Masterpieces.>

One pack, one game-used. Amazing coincidence :rofl:

[RuthMayBond]

"but what sport do you think Erik Bedard plays?"

Like I said, it's a coincidence. If it makes you feel better, as a sort of a "placebo," you can keep on feeling packs. One game-used in only one pack makes me feel better

<I have zero problems with it. I'm just saying that you're not going to find too much and you may actually get thrown off from an autographed insert, for example (For some reason, there is a popular myth that all insert-laden packs are heavier...WRONG! Packs with autographs are always lighter, albeit only very slightly.>

LIKE I SAID, I DON'T HAVE A SCALE! And I've never claimed to be able to find sigs. But the one I did find (football), I knew it before I opened it. Autos aren't the only insert

<Further, the card companies will still put in the cardboard insert, something they didn't do prior to 2006.).>

You sure about that?

[StormSurge]

Good, then you'll trade me your Jeter sig for my Dokken sig :highfive:

If I had one, I would!

[RuthMayBond]

If I had one, I would!What do you have that's comparable with a Jeter sig?

[StormSurge]

What do you have that's comparable with a Jeter sig?

I have some 2008 A&G relics. I'm not sure who off the top of my head, but I can PM you a list later tonight.

[RuthMayBond]

In 2006, as part of the MLBPA's all-encompassing reforms, they put in certain weight and width countermeasure requirements (usually with the addition of blank cardboard inserts or advertisements) that before 2006 did not exist or were merely the responsibility of the card companies.that's not even the most effective countermeasures with me anyway. It's clear as mud here

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?p=1191673&#post1191673

[Dalkowski110]

"LIKE I SAID, I DON'T HAVE A SCALE! And I've never claimed to be able to find sigs. But the one I did find (football), I knew it before I opened it. Autos aren't the only insert"

I never said or even insinuated you did have a scale. No need to get defensive.

"You sure about that?"

Kind of...I should clarify. Usually, before 2005, the cardboard inserts were much heavier or much lighter than the insert cards themselves and were pretty easy to discover just by feeling down the packs. The MLBPA changed that forcibly.

"that's not even the most effective countermeasures with me anyway. It's clear as mud here"

Pack thickness was also changed up in '06.

[RuthMayBond]

"LIKE I SAID, I DON'T HAVE A SCALE! And I've never claimed to be able to find sigs. But the one I did find (football), I knew it before I opened it. Autos aren't the only insert"

I never said or even insinuated you did have a scale. No need to get defensive.You said the new weight countermeasures would throw me off.

<Kind of...I should clarify. Usually, before 2005, the cardboard inserts were much heavier or much lighter than the insert cards themselves and were pretty easy to discover just by feeling down the packs.>

That never helped me

"that's not even the most effective countermeasures with me anyway. It's clear as mud here"

<Pack thickness was also changed up in '06.>

Makes no difference to me (at least with baseball)

[Dalkowski110]

"You said the new weight countermeasures would throw me off."

That's correct. You see, most people who've handled enough packs can tell the difference between a 2003 Donruss pack that has a game-used card and one that does not. The one with the game-used card has a noticibly different, lighter feel to it. Upper Deck was also generally much lighter, though Topps was heavier. You could just the difference holding two or three of the packs in your hands for a few seconds. It hardly took a scale.

[RuthMayBond]

"You said the new weight countermeasures would throw me off."

That's correct. You see, most people who've handled enough packs can tell the difference between a 2003 Donruss pack that has a game-used card and one that does not. The one with the game-used card has a noticibly different, lighter feel to it.I've never been able to tell that difference :sigh::(:mad::cry: You seem to know a lot about this

[Dalkowski110]

"You seem to know a lot about this"

I never said that I *never* searched packs. Merely that I don't do so now. No, I didn't have a change of heart or "see the light." Instead, I just quit when, while feeling down packs, I discarded a pack that contained an autograph of (I believe) Vladimir Guerrero to get a game-used jersey card of Jim Thome.

[RuthMayBond]

I guess you guys have to decide if this is a baseball card only forum or not. If it is, I've removed ZERO total baseball sigs from circulation in twenty-five years, and I stumbled onto my first baseball game-used in probably three years. Not exactly ruining the hobby.
If it's not baseball card only, then I've got some pulls to report

[Dalkowski110]

It's baseball card only, and here's why: even Donruss went to using the really good countermeasures in their baseball packs when they came back in 2007. Most football cards and basketball cards simply don't employ the same countermeaures; it's not mandated by the MLBPA or particularly pressured by the hobby.

[RuthMayBond]

It's baseball card only, and here's why: even Donruss went to using the really good countermeasures in their baseball packs when they came back in 2007. Most football cards and basketball cards simply don't employ the same countermeaures; it's not mandated by the MLBPA or particularly pressured by the hobby.So everybody's been ragging on me for never plucking a sig and for stumbling onto my first game-used (of a not that good player) in three years :applaud:

[Mike D.]

So everybody's been ragging on me for never plucking a sig and for stumbling onto my first game-used (of a not that good player) in three years :applaud:

Just because you're not good at it doesn't mean it's still an underhanded thing to do. ;):D

At this point, the weird thing to me is that it's pretty clear that most collectors here don't like pack searchers, and you seem to go out of your way to want to talk about your pack searching, then act offended when we still don't like it. I'm not sure what's up with that. :shrug:

[Dalkowski110]

"So everybody's been ragging on me for never plucking a sig and for stumbling onto my first game-used (of a not that good player) in three years"

See post 59. The only reason I gave up packsearching was because I believed it ineffective. I'm not ragging on you. If anything, I'm rooting for you.

"Just because you're not good at it"

Ah, but he's likely found plenty in football and basketball packs. It's not that RMB's bad; far from it. It's simply that the post-2005 countermeasures are that good.

[RuthMayBond]

Just because you're not good at it doesn't mean it's still an underhanded thing to do. ;):D I wonder which is easier to disguise, scales or calipers

<At this point, the weird thing to me is that it's pretty clear that most collectors here don't like pack searchers>

I wonder what you'd do if someone was actually GOOD at it. But there's nothing to talk about if it's strictly baseball

[RuthMayBond]

"So everybody's been ragging on me for never plucking a sig and for stumbling onto my first game-used (of a not that good player) in three years"

See post 59. The only reason I gave up packsearching was because I believed it ineffective. I'm not ragging on you. If anything, I'm rooting for you.Don't tell Mike D.
For packs where it appears ineffective, I *do* give it up.
I'd still like to know how you were pretty sure not only did you put back a sig but that it was Vlad

[Dalkowski110]

"I'd still like to know how you were pretty sure not only did you put back a sig but that it was Vlad"

My then-boss and I were opening up packs from a 2005 Upper Deck set. I felt down four or five packs, pulled two aside, and tossed the others to my boss to open up. He got the Vlad autograph, I got the Jim Thome GU jersey.

Incidentally, if any of your actions is grating, it sure's hell isn't packsearching. It's the "everyone, AND I MEAN EVERYONE is against me!" attitude when I'm clearly not...

[RuthMayBond]

It's simply that the post-2005 countermeasures are that good.One of the countermeasures has been around for at least twenty years and is frequently used in ninety-nine cent packs from every sport.

[RuthMayBond]

Incidentally, if any of your actions is grating, it sure's hell isn't packsearching. It's the "everyone, AND I MEAN EVERYONE is against me!" attitude when I'm clearly not...Mike D might think differently, but I stand corrected.
You GO, Dalkowski! :bowdown:

[Dalkowski110]

"One of the countermeasures has been around for at least twenty years and is frequently used in ninety-nine cent packs from every sport."

Cardboard inserts have changed pretty drastically from 20 years ago...

EDIT: To elaborate, they're usually weighted and sized to feel the same as an insert card would. In 2008 Donruss Elite Extra Edition, they take it a step further; to wit, sometimes you get the cardboard insert and sometimes you don't. I'm pretty sure you'll see this in 2009 Upper Deck, too.

EDIT AGAIN: "You GO, Dalkowski!"

Thanks RMB...getting to be on your side of this debate seemed roughly equivalent to pulling teeth for a little while there. ;)

[RuthMayBond]

"One of the countermeasures has been around for at least twenty years and is frequently used in ninety-nine cent packs from every sport."

Cardboard inserts have changed pretty drastically from 20 years ago...If you're referring to the thick cardboard dummy cards, I doubt they're in 99 cent packs and that they've been around that long. And they're not that good a countermeasure in certain situations

[Dalkowski110]

"I doubt they're in 99 cent packs"

They are. Check out the Topps Opening Day and Upper Deck First Edition issues.

"and that they've been around that long."

Actually, in one form or another, cardboard dummy cards have been around that long, albeit for different purposes when introduced.

I'm guessing the countermeasure you're referring to, though, is the foil pack as opposed to the wax pack. Unscrupulous dealers back in the 1980's very quickly learned how to open the pack and then re-seal it, prompting Score to become the first company to release its cards in a poly bag. The poly bags were pretty much tamper-proof, but hardened and potentially hurt the cards. So in 1989, Score switched to sealed, "plastic bag material" wrappers. This in turn prompted Upper Deck (then in its infancy) to use foil packs.

[Mike D.]

I wonder which is easier to disguise, scales or calipers

Hey, I had a smiley face there, I know it's got nothing to do with skill in baseball...


<At this point, the weird thing to me is that it's pretty clear that most collectors here don't like pack searchers>

I wonder what you'd do if someone was actually GOOD at it. But there's nothing to talk about if it's strictly baseball

I was just commenting on the fact that you seem to revel in this "everyone is against me" mentality about pack searching, when it seems it'd be easier to just NOT bring it up every chance you get (which you do).

[RuthMayBond]

Hey, I had a smiley face there, I know it's got nothing to do with skill in baseball...
I'm not sure that'd help me either (although I've done pretty well at major league batting practices). I guess that makes me a stadium seat searcher too :laugh

[Mike D.]

I'm not sure that'd help me either (although I've done pretty well at major league batting practices). I guess that makes me a stadium seat searcher too :laugh

I meant baseball packs, obviously...I can't imagine the ability to hit a curveball, or block a pitch in the dirt, or the like, helps you get better cards out of packs...although I guess you never know. :laugh

[RuthMayBond]

I meant baseball packs, obviously...I can't imagine the ability to hit a curveball, or block a pitch in the dirt, or the like, helps you get better cards out of packs...although I guess you never know. :laughI'm kinda hoping they're inversely proportionate, because I'm one year from the 50-and-over softball league

[Mike D.]

I'm kinda hoping they're inversely proportionate, because I'm one year from the 50-and-over softball league

Hmm...."I've done pretty well at major league batting practices" and "because I'm one year from the 50-and-over softball league".

It all makes sense to me now. Your secret is out...


RuthMayBond = Julio Franco

:D

[RuthMayBond]

Hmm...."I've done pretty well at major league batting practices" and "because I'm one year from the 50-and-over softball league".

It all makes sense to me now. Your secret is out...


RuthMayBond = Julio Franco

:DDang.
Well, he was my mom's favorite player

[RuthMayBond]

"I doubt they're in 99 cent packs"

They are. Check out the Topps Opening Day and Upper Deck First Edition issues.
It's amazing that they would use both cardboard fakeouts AND foil wrappers for 99 cent packs which probably have no decent inserts anyway :laugh