What Many People Teach A/B Hitting In STL

[Chris O'Leary]

A friend (who is a HS coach) sent me this document...

- Hitting Tips (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Documents/HittingTips.doc)

...which reflects what many instructors in St. Louis teach.

While some of it is good, IMO most of it is pretty bad...

1. Level swing (level to the ground).
2. Swing down on the ball.
3. Squish the bug.
4. Line up the door knocker knuckles.
5. Top hand push through the zone.

The only thing that's missing from this document that is common around here is extension and the Power V at the point of contact.

[baseballdad]

Based on that list I have to ask "Which part is good?"

[FiveFrameSwing]

4. Line up the door knocker knuckles.


Is this what you see him backing up in his demonstrations? It isn't what I see. Seems to be teaching one thing and doing something different.

http://www.groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/NotHere1.jpg


http://www.groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/NotHere2.jpg

[Chris O'Leary]

Based on that list I have to ask "Which part is good?"

Ok, I was trying to be nice. Sheesh. ;-)

The athletic stance stuff isn't terrible.

[Chris O'Leary]

Is this what you see him backing up in his demonstrations? It isn't what I see. Seems to be teaching one thing and doing something different.

Good catch.

In the document he acknowledges that many pros don't line up the door knuckle knockers but then says kids should.

I don't buy it.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Good catch.

In the document he acknowledges that many pros don't line up the door knuckle knockers but then says kids should.

I don't buy it.


I don't buy it either. He's basically trying to give himself license to violate the Hanson Principle.

Don't walk, but run to the nearest exit.

[FiveFrameSwing]

1. Level swing (level to the ground).


So much for the barrel being an extension of the lead-arm.

http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/BarrelExtensionOfTheLeadArm.jpg


This would be a good diagram to help sell Tanner Tees. It could be used to explain why these hard rubber tees help reinforce stupidity.


Obviously Arod didn't take instruction from this guy.

http://groundup.hittingillustrated.com/hitting/Videos/AROD.jpg

[b4uplayball]

Hall of Famer Tony Gwynn used this simple drill to enhance the level swing.

All he used was a batting T and wiffle balls (the ones with the holes in it).

Put the wiffle ball on the batting T and take a swing.
If the ball whistles and "knuckles" through the air, it is a level swing.

If the ball spins off the batting T, you are not swinging level.

This simple drill is all you need to teach kids to swing level. It seems to me that baseball instruction is getting too complicated. If a Hall of famer endorsing this simple technique, it's good enough for all levels of baseball!

[Chris O'Leary]

Hall of Famer Tony Gwynn used this simple drill to enhance the level swing.

The problem is that the level swing is a myth.

[kylebee]

It seems to me that baseball instruction is getting too complicated. If a Hall of famer endorsing this simple technique, it's good enough for all levels of baseball!

This is a dangerous way to look at things.

[CoachB25]

Chris, I don't know how many posters on this site are from the St. Louis area. So, I'd think that you won't get much response for those who actually know. As you know, I live in the St. Louis Metro East. (20 miles on the East side in Troy, Illinois) I can't think of any coaches that I've talked to make these specific points. As you also know, I often given hitting presentations and so, none have questioned what I have presented versus what you posted. Of course, I don't know the coach of which you refer.

Something we all need to keep in mind is that regardless of what you profess that you teach, you can't always control how they understand what you teach. Also, you don't often have control over the athleticism of of your hitters and so, you might be teaching any "philosophy" and yet, the hitter might not possess the ability to incorporate what you teach into what they do. Yet other hitters can have the ugliest swing and yet they hit. Well, so much for being "Captain Obvious."

[ssarge]

Hall of Famer Tony Gwynn used this simple drill to enhance the level swing.

All he used was a batting T and wiffle balls (the ones with the holes in it).

Put the wiffle ball on the batting T and take a swing.
If the ball whistles and "knuckles" through the air, it is a level swing.

If the ball spins off the batting T, you are not swinging level.

This simple drill is all you need to teach kids to swing level. It seems to me that baseball instruction is getting too complicated. If a Hall of famer endorsing this simple technique, it's good enough for all levels of baseball!


Gwynn was a great hitter - though a little unique from his peers - and he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, obviously. If your goal is to use 250+ lbs to hit a lot of singles, he would be someone to CONSIDER emulating. By that, I mean watching what he DID, not listening to what he says. UNLESS what he says is consistent with video of what he DID. In this case, it isn't.

I SO don't get this (swinging level to the ground). The only possible value to this would be to prepare for hitting a pitch that is moving on a flat line (level to the ground) through the strike zone. I've never seen one, and the laws of physics precludes it. The pitch is released from above the strike zone, by a pitcher standing several inches higher than the hitter. And gravity will bring the ball down something like 3 feet in the 0.45 seconds beteen release and reaching the plate. At BEST (top of the zone, and a 100mph pitch), it is going to be coming downward about 2-3 degrees. And the majority of pitches are moving 5-10 degrees downward, with some (breaking balls) being more than 25 degrees downward.

Practicing against a ball that is on a Tee with a swing that is level to the ground will GUARANTEE that the hitter will build mechanics that hit a ground ball. And no matter what Gwynn tells people to do, or what he THINKS HE did, I would bet it wasn't this. It SOUNDS right, and the deal about getting whiffle balls to whistle and knuckle is a cool goal. IF your goal is to get whiffle balls to whistle and knuckle. If your goal is to learn to hit real pitching, I'd run from this drill, personally. I think ANY ball hit off the Tee should ideally leave as a high-trajectory line-drive.

Regards,

Scott

[baseballdad]

I am really glad I read this post ssarge. I had never heard of this benefit of using tilt when you swing, but I had thought about it intuitively that if the ball is approaching the strike zone on a downward angle then if you have a tilt to your bat you are putting maybe 2-3 times the area of the bat (sweet spot) in the potential path of the ball compared to a level swing. This is a great incentive to young players to tilt in addition to to increased control they get from tilting.

FiveFrameSwing: Not sure what you mean about the difference between the hard rubber tees and the Tanner. How does the Tanner not reinforce stupidty?

[FiveFrameSwing]

The cone on the Tanner tee is highly flexible. This allows a ball can be struck using a diagonal swing path with minimal resistance from the tee.

The 'stupidity' I was referring to was in reference to how some "instructors" will promote a "level swing" in an effort to limit resistance from the impact of a hard rubber tee.