Ruling on a Batting order screw up(need advice)

[merdon133]

OK I screwed up today and not sure if the ruling was correct -

I gave a line to the Home team score keeper, which was the official line up, the coach on the other team asked for one but I didn't have enough, so I wrote one up for them real quick(mistake I guess) however I left 2 players off. So here's what happen and I hope I explain it right

(This is USSSA 11u)
Line to score keeper Line up giving to coach of Visiting team
1. bill bill
2, joe joe
3. bob bob
4. tom tom
5. jack jack
6. harry harry
7. sam sam
8. jojo dan
9. fred mike
10. dan bench - will
11. mike
Bench - will


we batted in the bottom of the first, batted 1 thru 7, # 8(jojo) from score keeper line up bats and makes final out. inning ends. Coach argues we batted out of order saying Dan should have batted. After 30 minutes without it being resolved. I'm told to start next inning with 1 out, Jojo is a sub and Fred is a sub. However I'm now told I can play them in the game no more because they were sub, I asked if they get to come in again, the coach is saying. So I bring the kid off the bench and they said I couldn't.

So may questing are -

1. When does the official line become official? Can changes be made before that batter bats? without the sub ruling in play?(IE Fred in this case since he never came to bat)

2. How does the batting out of order work once a inning is over? do they need to challage before the end of the inning? but if it's the last out does it apply to the next inning because he batted?

3. Just to be clear players can come in and out once?

Again I know I screwed up and will only give the line up to the Official score keeper and at the plate if required

The game ended iin a forfeit, because he wanted me to play with one 8 players and I told him to go to hell and pulled my kids off the field.

FYI - all this after he and his coaches called our kids sorry ***** while he was running on third because kids were cheering loudly. But I don't want to discuss all that crap

[Macker]

I'm not up to speed on USSSA rules, but I'll give you an answer according to organized baseball.

The lineup becomes official when you turn it in. If you make a substitution prior to the first pitch, the substituted players are done for the game, unless your league allows re-entry. (Some leagues are lax on this, and they will allow subs to be made prior to the start of the game, basically striking the players as if they were never in the lineup with them being available later in the game.)

Since the lineup the visiting coach had was not official, he has no grounds to try to nail you with batting out of order.

How can he say jojo batted out of order if jojo wasn't in the order? In order to bat out of order, the offending player must be somewhere in the order. jojo was in the official lineup, and he batted in the correct spot according to official lineup. Even if the visiting coach had the official lineup, then jojo would simply be an unannounced pinch-hitter for Dan. Dan would be out of the game, unless your rules allow re-entry.

If the visiting coach (VC) was correct (and he isn't), and jojo batted out of order (BOOR), the VC would be wise to keep quiet, since an out was recorded. If BOOR was called, then Dan is officially out even though jojo had been the batter. If BOOR is called, then the umps erred in using the VC's copy of the lineup as the official one. If that lineup is (wrongly) declared official, then Mike would lead off the next inning. However, if the umps handled this correctly, there would be no BOOR, and Fred would leadoff the next inning.