Top 15 Players in baseball (including pitchers)

[STLCards2]

Haven't seen one of these in a while, and they are pretty fun.

Here is my criteria.

When considering the top players, I try to put things into perspective: if you consider too many seasons, you end up with washed-up guys on your team. If you only consider the previous season, you can end up with one year flukes or at least guys who haven't proven themselves. So, you won't be seeing Cliff Lee or Ryan Ludwick. I try to focus on the previous 3 or so seasons when determining who is the "best." If a guy can do it for 3-4 years, I feel pretty confident he is for real. I also look at future projections for the next few seasons. Here is my list:

15. Jose Reyes - great '06 and '08 very good '07. Still young and no signs of slowing down. Most important position.

14. Jake Peavy - If he could stay healthy every year, he would move up this list quickly

13. Miguel Cabrera - He would have been a top 5 guy a couple of years ago. His famous lack of conditioning and slight decline in '08 caused some slippage. Still too much talent to drop out of the top 15

12. Roy Oswalt - most underapreciated pitcher in baseball. After struggling with injuries in the first half was a beast in the second half, continuing his annual great, but not Pedroesque streak of seasons - his career path reminds me of Plank, Glavine, and Mussina

11. Grady Sizemore - the man can do it all-and in CF to boot. Very underrated. Had he played for a contender, his name would be at the top of the AL MVP debate. I may be undervaluing him a bit at #11.

10. C.C. Sabathia - maybe the league's best overall pitcher the past two years. However, if you look to the past 3-4 seasons, the three pitchers ahead on my list are slighlty ahead.

9. Joe Mauer - the best all-around catcher in the game...and it isn't even close. Should be at the very top in the AL MVP debate- certainly ahead of Morneau.

8. Roy Halladay - when healthy, Halladay is an absolute beast. When healthy, he has probably been the second best pitcher in baseball the past 4-5 years.

7. Brandon Webb - Webb has probably been one of the top 3 pitchers in the NL each of the past 3 seasons - with no injuries or setbacks. Just as consistant as Oswalt, but with a little more durability and no "off" half-seasons

6. David Wright - people can talkabout clutch all they want, but any thirdbaseman who can go have an OB% near .400 with 80 XBhits, steal 20 bases and play great defense is a great, great, player. look for the fluky "clutch" numbers to even themselves out.

5. Hanley Ramirez - Miguel Cabrera bat with speed at a more important position. If only he could improve his SS play, he could move to the top 2-3 of the list

4. Chase Utley - Roberto Alomar with a tad more pop and maybe even a smidgen better defensively. Utley is by far the best player on the Phillies.

3. Johan Santana - with smarter voters (2006) and more offensive run support (2008), Johan could be on the verge of winning his 4th Cy Young in five years. Enough said.

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The next two are a toss-up. Which is more valuable - a 170 OPS+ firstbaseman who is starting to rack up well-deserved Gold Gloves, or a 150 OPS+ average defensive thirdbaseman with lots more speed? Throw in Albert's great postseason hitting and clubhouse leadership vs. Rodriguez' poor postseason play (since 2005) and clubhouse issues, and it becomes closer. Ultimately, I will chose Rodriguez, even though I would tak Albert's '06 and '08 compared to A-Rod's '07. That postional difference might be just too much for Albert to overcome. Even more importantly is Albert's elbow injury hanging over his head, which makes me think a A-Rod dominated next couple of years is slightly more likely.
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2. Albert Pujols - but barely

1. Alex Rodriguez



Anybody else have a list?

[Berkman#17]

My list is pretty much the same, except I've got Hanley at 2-3 (with Pujols), depending on my mood, with Pujols being a Cardinal and all.

[STLCards2]

My list is pretty much the same, except I've got Hanley at 2-3 (with Pujols), depending on my mood, with Pujols being a Cardinal and all.

To repay the love shown - Berkman was one of the last few to be dropped - definitley one of the top 20. :)

[KevinWI]

Although I think Joe Buck is such a St. Louis homer, he had a good quote during the All Star Game about A-Rod vs. Albert.

"You may argue that Alex Rodriguez is the best all around player. I'd argue that Albert Pujols is the best all around batter."

[Berkman#17]

To repay the love shown - Berkman was one of the last few to be dropped - definitley one of the top 20. :)

I've got no quibble with that.

Pujols goes ofer against the Cubs, and he definately gets #2. He hits another late inning home run, oh buddy you better believe he gets bumped to #3!:rofl:

[yamsi12]

Haven't seen one of these in a while, and they are pretty fun.

Here is my criteria.

When considering the top players, I try to put things into perspective: if you consider too many seasons, you end up with washed-up guys on your team. If you only consider the previous season, you can end up with one year flukes or at least guys who haven't proven themselves. So, you won't be seeing Cliff Lee or Ryan Ludwick. I try to focus on the previous 3 or so seasons when determining who is the "best." If a guy can do it for 3-4 years, I feel pretty confident he is for real. I also look at future projections for the next few seasons. Here is my list:

15. Jose Reyes - great '06 and '08 very good '07. Still young and no signs of slowing down. Most important position.

14. Jake Peavy - If he could stay healthy every year, he would move up this list quickly

13. Miguel Cabrera - He would have been a top 5 guy a couple of years ago. His famous lack of conditioning and slight decline in '08 caused some slippage. Still too much talent to drop out of the top 15

12. Roy Oswalt - most underapreciated pitcher in baseball. After struggling with injuries in the first half was a beast in the second half, continuing his annual great, but not Pedroesque streak of seasons - his career path reminds me of Plank, Glavine, and Mussina

11. Grady Sizemore - the man can do it all-and in CF to boot. Very underrated. Had he played for a contender, his name would be at the top of the AL MVP debate. I may be undervaluing him a bit at #11.

10. C.C. Sabathia - maybe the league's best overall pitcher the past two years. However, if you look to the past 3-4 seasons, the three pitchers ahead on my list are slighlty ahead.

9. Joe Mauer - the best all-around catcher in the game...and it isn't even close. Should be at the very top in the AL MVP debate- certainly ahead of Morneau.

8. Roy Halladay - when healthy, Halladay is an absolute beast. When healthy, he has probably been the second best pitcher in baseball the past 4-5 years.

7. Brandon Webb - Webb has probably been one of the top 3 pitchers in the NL each of the past 3 seasons - with no injuries or setbacks. Just as consistant as Oswalt, but with a little more durability and no "off" half-seasons

6. David Wright - people can talkabout clutch all they want, but any thirdbaseman who can go have an OB% near .400 with 80 XBhits, steal 20 bases and play great defense is a great, great, player. look for the fluky "clutch" numbers to even themselves out.

5. Hanley Ramirez - Miguel Cabrera bat with speed at a more important position. If only he could improve his SS play, he could move to the top 2-3 of the list

4. Chase Utley - Roberto Alomar with a tad more pop and maybe even a smidgen better defensively. Utley is by far the best player on the Phillies.

3. Johan Santana - with smarter voters (2006) and more offensive run support (2008), Johan could be on the verge of winning his 4th Cy Young in five years. Enough said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The next two are a toss-up. Which is more valuable - a 170 OPS+ firstbaseman who is starting to rack up well-deserved Gold Gloves, or a 150 OPS+ average defensive thirdbaseman with lots more speed? Throw in Albert's great postseason hitting and clubhouse leadership vs. Rodriguez' poor postseason play (since 2005) and clubhouse issues, and it becomes closer. Ultimately, I will chose Rodriguez, even though I would tak Albert's '06 and '08 compared to A-Rod's '07. That postional difference might be just too much for Albert to overcome. Even more importantly is Albert's elbow injury hanging over his head, which makes me think a A-Rod dominated next couple of years is slightly more likely.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Albert Pujols - but barely

1. Alex Rodriguez



Anybody else have a list?

I agree with this list pretty much. Even though this was only his 2nd season Tim Lincecum has to be on that list IMO. As long as he keeps his arm healthy this kid is the real deal. Its amazing he could pull off being 18-5 on a team as bad as the Giants. They've blown 6 games for him after he's left in the 7th or 8th with the lead. He was also robbed of a possible W in Houston when he got nailed in the knee by a hit with 4 1/3 innings pitched and the lead. The Giants pen then gave up 10 runs :eek:

Ive seen him pitch 3 times and he just boggles the mind. Someone 5'10 170 lbs throwing 98mph fastballs. He has great pitching mechanics and shows the poise of a veteran out on the mound. Sunday vs the Dodgers the first 9 outs were all strikeouts by him. :eek: First time in 22 years thats happened at an MLB game. The first 11 of 15 outs were K's. Everytime he strikes out someone he doesnt pump his fist or point to the sky, he silently just walks off the mound and goes back to his seat in the dugout. Its nice to see that in a pitcher for a change.

Like I said, hes here to stay unless he blows out his arm

*knock on wood*

[Brad Harris]

Like I said, hes here to stay unless he blows out his arm

*knock on Wood*
Fixed. :rofl:

[metfan13]

Good list.

I think the thing with Wright is that many will dwell on this season's RISP number for too long. THIS season was the correction. His Avg. with RISP last year was well above his overall Avg. Now his career RISP avg is very similar to his overall avg.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Pujols number 1 baby! If he has two more seasons like he has, he could very well become in the top 50 players all-time. Eventually, he would move up to 10.

[Domenic]

15. Joe Mauer
14. CC Sabathia
13. Ryan Braun
12. Brandon Webb
11. Roy Halladay
10. Jake Peavy
9. Miguel Cabrera
8. Lance Berkman
7. Grady Sizemore
6. Johan Santana
5. Chase Utley
4. David Wright
3. Hanley Ramirez
With a more solid glove, Ramirez might be the best player in the game. He is, far and away, the best player at his position, to boot.
2. Alex Rodriguez
Rodriguez could arguably be number one on this list. However, he has battled inconsistency and fielding issues from year-to-year, and strikes out a bit too much. His clutch numbers, although solid for his career, fluctuate far too much, as well.
1. Albert Pujols
The numbers, in my mind, speak for themselves - .334/.425/.624, 170 OPS+ for his career. Pujols is incredibly disciplined at the plate, has immense power, runs the bases well enough, and may be the best fielding first baseman in the game. At 28 years-old, Pujols is having the best season of his career, to boot.

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

This is a tall order, but here goes...

15. Chipper Jones - More durability would put him much higher on this list, but, when he plays, he's awesome.
14. Manny Ramirez - Was 2007 a fluke? He bounced back to be one of the top five hitters in baseball in 2008.
13. Joe Mauer - After winning his second batting title in three years, he's established himself as the best catcher in baseball.
12. Ryan Howard - He consistently hits more homers and drives in more runs than anyone else.
11. Roy Oswalt - Every single year he puts up very good, though not dominating, numbers. He's perhaps the most consistent pitcher in baseball.
10. C.C. Sabathia - He followed up his Cy Young season with another very solid campaign. He's probably the most durable pitcher in the game today.
9. David Wright - He's baseball's premier third baseman, and among the best all-around players in the game.
8. Matt Holliday - He's been a consistently great hitter for the last three years. A rough second half in 2008 cost him a few spots on this list.
7. Chase Utley - Like Wright at third, Utley's the best second basman in the game.
6. Brandon Webb - He's consistently among the best pitchers in the league. He should finish in the top three in the Cy Young voting for the third straight year.
5. Miguel Cabrera - He led the league in homers in what many consider to be an off year for him. At 25 years old, he's only going to get better.
4. Hanley Ramirez - A true five tool player, he's also young and going to get better in the coming years. The only strike against him is his sometimes questionable defense.
3. Johan Santana - He's consistently dominant - the best pitcher in baseball.
2. Alex Rodriguez - A great hitter and solid third baseman, he should be the consensus number two player in the game.
1. Albert Pujols - What he does at the plate is overwhelming. He's the best hitter in baseball by a wide, wide margin, and he's a Gold Glove caliber first baseman to boot.

Honorable Mention: Roy Halladay, Lance Berkman, and Mark Teixeira

[STLCards2]

I'll explain why I went against some of the other picks listed here:

R. Braun - again, I like to look at about 3-4 years. I could go with 2 if the guy was as productive as Braun at a top position. Braun really has had 1.7 years or so. Ask me again one year from today, and I could see him there.

C. Jones - his lack of durability really hurts. He has missed major time almost every season the past five years. Remember, I look at a season or two into the future as well. At his age, he has less promise going into the next few seasons than some of these younger guys.

M. Ramirez - see "Jones" above - everything after "Remember." Plus, Manny wasn't great in 2007.


L. Berkman - he was a tough guy to kick off. For a firstbaseman to be in the class of these guys, he needs to be going for 160-170 OPS+ every year. The Big Puma hasn't quite done that.

M. Holliday - Really only a major force the past two years and wasn't even a top 5 producer this year. How much does his park factor in? At his position, he needs to be more dominating to crack this top 15.

R. Howard - poor average (really poor against lefties), billions of strikeouts, poor defense, no speed at all...the weaknesses go on and on. Of note: for all of his power, he can't hit doubles either. It should be noted that he is playing in the perfect environment for his very few strenghts. All he does is hit homeruns (and get a fair share of walks). His HR power is the real deal and very impressive, but stick a guy with his HR power in Phily with guys swarming the bases every game and you end up with 45-50 dingers and 140+ RBI's. Put Albert in that environment and watch the heck out! Many weaknesses and environmentaly inflated strenghts equals nowhere near top 15.

T. Lincecum - I need to see more than one great year and good year to label a guy as one of the top 15 players in baseball. Do I expect to see him their in the near future? Yes.


Comments on others guys:

Rivera/Paplebon/Nathan, etc. - very hard to know where to rank relievers
Zambrano - his offense combined with pitching makes him close to the top 15
Teixiera - Berkman light
Morneau - Teixeira light
McCann/Y. Molina/Soto/Martin/V.Martinez/Posada - combination of youth, injuries, one-dimentionalism, etc. It is so hard to rank catchers, but surely some of these guys have to be in the conversation
Ludwick/Quinten/Lee/Langoria/Dempster, etc. - one good year isn't enough to rank
Rollins - Reyes light with a bigger mouth
Fielder - Howard light...well sorta "light"
Hamels/F. Hernandez/Kazmir, etc. - not enough track record