View Full Version : Hi guys, what are the muscles used for pitching and hitting?
Hi guys, what are the muscles used for
A) pitching/throw?
I am kind of in a "Just how do these major leaguers bend their arm like that" confused state.
B) hitting?
Want to workout on those muscles.
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Articulations.html
http://www.getbodysmart.com/ap/muscularsystem/menu/menu.html
http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html
Thanks.
LAball
09-26-2008, 01:35 AM
If you have an amature swing, working your Forearms, tricep, bicep and lats are most effiecient to improve your swing. imo.
Berjee
09-26-2008, 04:19 AM
Fukudome once said (maybe not the best example right now):
I was explaining to them that if you told a man to stand on his hands for a day, he couldn’t do it. But if you told him to stand on his legs for a day, that would be no problem. The point is your legs have more power than your arms so when you’re batting, you’ve always got to be concerned with how to transfer the power of your legs to the bat in your hands.
IMO it's most important you train your legs and core
First off never listen to LAball because he has shown he knows nothing and does it again here.
Your core + lowerbody are very important in the swing and is responsible for most of the swing. You must train upperbody too though. For throwing the back is important as well as the lowerbody + core. So basically back + legs + core are important for all aspects of baseball. When you lift make sure you don't lose flexibility in your chest area (arm pit side of your pecs) because that is the most common place that will hinder performance. Compound lifts should be a majority of your workout (lifts that use multiple muscles ie. deadlift, squat, bench). As far as their arms bending its just due to flexibility ... and really if you had a slow mo camera you would see pretty much all people's arms do bend back when throwing.
Once again, I gotta agree with korp that please ignore any advice that you get from LABall......
kylebee
09-26-2008, 09:30 AM
First off never listen to LAball because he has shown he knows nothing and does it again here.
Your core + lowerbody are very important in the swing and is responsible for most of the swing. You must train upperbody too though. For throwing the back is important as well as the lowerbody + core. So basically back + legs + core are important for all aspects of baseball. When you lift make sure you don't lose flexibility in your chest area (arm pit side of your pecs) because that is the most common place that will hinder performance. Compound lifts should be a majority of your workout (lifts that use multiple muscles ie. deadlift, squat, bench). As far as their arms bending its just due to flexibility ... and really if you had a slow mo camera you would see pretty much all people's arms do bend back when throwing.
This is pretty much spot-on.
To quickly answer the question of "What muscles are used in pitching and hitting," it would be "all of them."
Chris O'Leary
09-26-2008, 09:32 AM
The core is the first place to start.
fungo22
09-26-2008, 11:35 AM
First off never listen to LAball because he has shown he knows nothing and does it again here.
Your core + lowerbody are very important in the swing and is responsible for most of the swing. You must train upperbody too though. For throwing the back is important as well as the lowerbody + core. So basically back + legs + core are important for all aspects of baseball. When you lift make sure you don't lose flexibility in your chest area (arm pit side of your pecs) because that is the most common place that will hinder performance. Compound lifts should be a majority of your workout (lifts that use multiple muscles ie. deadlift, squat, bench). As far as their arms bending its just due to flexibility ... and really if you had a slow mo camera you would see pretty much all people's arms do bend back when throwing.
I don't know about listening to LAball (as a general principle and personal policy) but I agree that the rest of this answer is spot on. I might add standing inverted rows to even out the bench press work. Do as much as possible with feet on the ground.
kylebee
09-26-2008, 03:02 PM
I do deadlift, squat, and cable rotations to help synchronize the hip/torso separation as a hitter. Not saying that bench is a bad exercise, just that it's not very specific to baseball. Jon Doyle has written about it as well, if you want an expert's opinion. Compound lifts are great overall, though.
LAball
09-26-2008, 04:21 PM
We've been through this question many times. And I will post my opinions as much as I want. Why dont you just post your opinion and let the readers decide for themselves.
I'd give you reasons why amatures need to work on arm strength and not core, leg strength. But as noted by some of the post above, people here on too immature to see different points of view let alone understand it.
Your core + lowerbody are very important in the swing and is responsible for most of the swing. You must train upperbody too though. .
"What muscles are used in pitching and hitting," it would be "all of them."
Training the whole body is an ignorant answer
Lets say this, If you only have 10 minutes and could ONLY train 3 muscles groups, which ones woud you pick for batting?
LAball
09-26-2008, 04:36 PM
You have a 16 y/o kid with no lifting exerperience and an amature swing. for 4 weeks, 3 times a week he will do A or B.
A- 1) Ab crunch 2) Squat 3) Deadlift 4) Lunges
B- 1) Bicep curls 2) Tricep extension 3) Wrist flexors 4) Wrist extensors
I gaurantee you B will hit the ball further after 4 weeks
kylebee
09-26-2008, 04:46 PM
Training the whole body is an ignorant answer
Lets say this, If you only have 10 minutes and could ONLY train 3 muscles groups, which ones woud you pick for batting?
No, training the arms (the smallest muscle group involved in hitting) is an ignorant answer.
Your hypothetical is irrelevant and useless because we have more than 10 minutes. If you don't, then you need to find time to train if you're serious about getting in shape for baseball.
You have a 16 y/o kid with no lifting exerperience and an amature swing. for 4 weeks, 3 times a week he will do A or B.
A- 1) Ab crunch 2) Squat 3) Deadlift 4) Lunges
B- 1) Bicep curls 2) Tricep extension 3) Wrist flexors 4) Wrist extensors
I gaurantee you B will hit the ball further after 4 weeks
Stating the ab crunch as something that we agree with is a strawman, since most of us (Maxx, korp, myself) would probably not recommend that to anyone for total body training.
Even if he DID do ab crunches with squats/deadlifts/lunges, he would be much stronger overall than the person that did B, and would likely hit the ball farther.
What is your background in exercise physiology? Where did you learn - Reader's Digest or perhaps Muscle and Fitness? Pick up some Journals of Sports Medicine or read advanced training sites like Mind and Muscle or Crossfit. You are seriously ignorant and lacking of real, scientifically-based knowledge in this subject. Obviously you are free to post as much as you want (or as much as Jake will tolerate it), but your opinions are worthless.
The core is the first place to start.
I'd go with core and hips.......
We've been through this question many times. And I will post my opinions as much as I want. Why dont you just post your opinion and let the readers decide for themselves.
Because your opinions will not help those asking the question in any manner whatsoever. And if they don't know any better, then we must point out not to waste their time following your "opinions." AND, the things that we speak of are not opinions--they are facts supported by research!!!
By the way, it is AMATEURS, not amatures. Maybe you are thinking of immature?????
LAball
09-26-2008, 07:29 PM
By the way, it is AMATEURS, not amatures. Maybe you are thinking of immature?????
Yes I do think of immature when I think of you
Because your opinions will not help those asking the question in any manner whatsoever. And if they don't know any better, then we must point out not to waste their time following your "opinions." AND, the things that we speak of are not opinions--they are facts supported by research!!!
By the way, it is AMATEURS, not amatures. Maybe you are thinking of immature?????
Haha
LAball .. I wasn't aware the biceps were a major part of the swing? oh wait its because they aren't haha.
Yes I do think of immature when I think of you
Lovely......
Fukudome once said (maybe not the best example right now):
I was explaining to them that if you told a man to stand on his hands for a day, he couldn’t do it. But if you told him to stand on his legs for a day, that would be no problem. The point is your legs have more power than your arms so when you’re batting, you’ve always got to be concerned with how to transfer the power of your legs to the bat in your hands.
IMO it's most important you train your legs and core
The example is very telling, so obvious so true yet I have never thought of!!
But those muscles you use to stand and walk and those you use to rotate, are they the same one?
kylebee
09-29-2008, 06:07 AM
The example is very telling, so obvious so true yet I have never thought of!!
But those muscles you use to stand and walk and those you use to rotate, are they the same one?
Somewhat, yes. Your core muscles maintain dynamic stability and balance. Working them in high-intensity applications will help you to create greater rotational forces.
The principle of specificity indicates that we must train specifically for best results in acheiving an end goal. As such, in addition to compound lifts (which are specific, regardless of what Marshallites will tell you), you should do medball rotational work, resistance band explosive training, and possibly investigate the wrist weight training that Dr. Marshall prescribes for pitchers (which has a lot of value - feel free to ignore his advice about weightlifting being useless).
Chris O'Leary
09-29-2008, 07:06 AM
LAball .. I wasn't aware the biceps were a major part of the swing? oh wait its because they aren't haha.
Actually, the Biceps do play an indirect role as force maintainers (the core and hips are the primary force generators). The Biceps maintain connection by creating centripetal force which helps to maintain connection.
Actually, the Biceps do play an indirect role as force maintainers (the core and hips are the primary force generators). The Biceps maintain connection by creating centripetal force which helps to maintain connection.
Yes but I said a major part .... he was basically inferring if you do alot of curls it will help your swing.
Chris O'Leary
09-29-2008, 08:32 AM
Yes but I said a major part .... he was basically inferring if you do alot of curls it will help your swing.
It will help some, but probably not more than maybe 5 to 10 percent. You have to condition the core to get major improvements.
Is there any relative rating/score of the typical strength of the major muscles?
Baseball gLove
10-01-2008, 11:21 AM
You have a 16 y/o kid with no lifting exerperience and an amature swing. for 4 weeks, 3 times a week he will do A or B.
A- 1) Ab crunch 2) Squat 3) Deadlift 4) Lunges
B- 1) Bicep curls 2) Tricep extension 3) Wrist flexors 4) Wrist extensors
I gaurantee you B will hit the ball further after 4 weeks
You'd lose if you bet on your "gaurantee" (guarantee for the literate).
Berjee
10-01-2008, 03:55 PM
The example is very telling, so obvious so true yet I have never thought of!!
But those muscles you use to stand and walk and those you use to rotate, are they the same one?
I ment Fukodome as not being a great example right now, the way he's hitting.:crazy
Jon Doyle
10-02-2008, 09:42 PM
All of them.
It's about using your body as one kinetic chain that transfers power from your body to your swing or throw/pitch. There's plenty of jacked guys who can't hit a lick.
As always, focus on the basic compound movements along with posterior chain work and dynamic torso work and you will begin to develop the power and explosiveness that will transfer over to the baseball field.
It's about usable strength.
are there some sort of relative rating/score of the typical strength of the major muscles?
Something like
quadriceps 700
biceps 440
triceps 320
deltoid...
would be better if it is:
listing in terms of movement, like
shoulder External Rotation 560
hip extension 1500
Scapula Adduction 600
... something like that
(the numbers are totally made up)
hawkiirock
11-13-2008, 04:22 PM
show me a guy who can squat and deadlift big weight and i will show you a guy with strong biceps even though he isnt doing any DIRECT bicep workActually, the Biceps do play an indirect role as force maintainers (the core and hips are the primary force generators). The Biceps maintain connection by creating centripetal force which helps to maintain connection.
hey hawk, what's up buddy?
show me a guy who can squat and deadlift big weight and i will show you a guy with strong biceps even though he isnt doing any DIRECT bicep work
Considering biceps are used in pulling exercises which a deadlift has I would have to agree.
hawkiirock
11-19-2008, 10:26 PM
hey there maxx. Not too much man. Just been busy and took a break from baseball and the boards. starting winter training after 2-3 months off and missed these places. How is everything? saw you were on the radio but missed the thread in time to see it. take carehey hawk, what's up buddy?
LAball
01-08-2009, 01:29 AM
I am persuaded somewhat by something that HiddenGem wrote a long time ago that I felt was so important that I kept it in my double-secret hitting file:
"I have played with the best in the world, and have had the priviledge of working with some great Major League hitters and coaches. (Gary Gaietti, Jeff Bagwell, Ken Caminiti, Lance Berkman, Mickey Hatcher, Vladimir Guerrero ect. ect.)
To a man, every single one of these players spent a large amount of time on Hand/Forearm strength, and believe(d) that your hands and wrist strength play a large part in your ability to control and get the bat through the zone.
There is a concept in pro ball, maybe you have heard the term, maybe not. Its called "Releasing the Bat head Through the ball", and this is done with your hands. The more power you have in your hands the greater force you will deliver through the ball."
Sorry old post, but I have to load some ammo when I find it.
Jake Patterson
01-08-2009, 09:51 AM
Sorry old post, but I have to load some ammo when I find it. What does this mean??
What does this mean??
Haha yeah x2
Emanski's Heroes
01-08-2009, 11:59 AM
I think he's just referencing another reader's post regarding the importance of hand/forearm strength. However, I think the grip strength required in the lifts of a more total body workout (cleans, deadlifts, etc) will probably provide the necessary levels of hand/forearm strength.
CoachB25
01-08-2009, 04:31 PM
...Your core + lowerbody are very important in the swing and is responsible for most of the swing. You must train upperbody too though. For throwing the back is important as well as the lowerbody + core. So basically back + legs + core are important for all aspects of baseball. When you lift make sure you don't lose flexibility in your chest area (arm pit side of your pecs) because that is the most common place that will hinder performance. Compound lifts should be a majority of your workout (lifts that use multiple muscles ie. deadlift, squat, bench). As far as their arms bending its just due to flexibility ... and really if you had a slow mo camera you would see pretty much all people's arms do bend back when throwing.
This is sound and similar to what we've done. I do understand that doing some of this isn't feasible for some. What I'd advise anyone to do if they don't have access to facilities, is to find medicine balls or what I call "plyo-balls" and do exercises with them. If we're going all the way down to basics, My child does box squats, squats, deadlifts, she is just now doing bench and is embarrased that she can't lift much. However, we do a lot of core work with those various weighted medicine balls. If we lost our facilities today, she could still get a workout that'd kick your butt with those balls.
Fleibility is also key. Finally, we do jump rope both heavy and speed. Don't forget to do something that is going to get your heart rate up. Hey, I'm an "ex expert" so take all of this for what it is worth.
LAball
01-08-2009, 11:53 PM
What does this mean??
In the begining of this thread and others, - I have stated the arm muscle are the most efficient way to increase hitting power. Then I got attacked by numerous others, while most others just disagreed with me.
Later OMG posted something that tends to agree with my theory-Strengthen the crap out of your bottom hand:grip,triceps/biceps,deltoid,lats.
Your power will improve-guaranteed.
Now UrsaM has posted that strenthening the forearms is very important, sooo important that he has to keep it in his Double secret file.
HG states MLB spends a large amount of time working on hands and forearm strength.
These things tends to support my theory, even though 99% of you dont agree, some more crudely then others.
This is sound and similar to what we've done. I do understand that doing some of this isn't feasible for some. What I'd advise anyone to do if they don't have access to facilities, is to find medicine balls or what I call "plyo-balls" and do exercises with them. If we're going all the way down to basics, My child does box squats, squats, deadlifts, she is just now doing bench and is embarrased that she can't lift much. However, we do a lot of core work with those various weighted medicine balls. If we lost our facilities today, she could still get a workout that'd kick your butt with those balls.
Fleibility is also key. Finally, we do jump rope both heavy and speed. Don't forget to do something that is going to get your heart rate up. Hey, I'm an "ex expert" so take all of this for what it is worth.
Med balls are great for explosion! Jump rope is great for cardio too.