Quick Bats?

[harry]

Do any of you have any advice or drills to develop bat speed or quicken up bats? My sons team (10U) team ran into a pretty hard throwing pitcher last night, most of the team had a hard time catching up, most of these boys have been playing coach pitch until now. They have been doing alot of work in practice but some just don't seem to get it. Just trying to find some other ideas to see if something else might click.
Thanks

[Chris O'Leary]

Do any of you have any advice or drills to develop bat speed or quicken up bats? My sons team (10U) team ran into a pretty hard throwing pitcher last night, most of the team had a hard time catching up, most of these boys have been playing coach pitch until now. They have been doing alot of work in practice but some just don't seem to get it. Just trying to find some other ideas to see if something else might click.
Thanks

They probably have a problem with bat drag.

Use the search function and you'll find a number of discussions on it. Also, here's a primer I wrote...

- Bat Drag 101 (http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/RethinkingHitting/Essays/BatDrag.html)

[bigredmachine#1]

Is the bat dragging behind caused by the hands lagging behind. It looks like the hands are way late in all those bat drag pics...

maybe a little of the much maligned cliches..."take your hands to the ball"...or..."knob to the ball"...is in order

[baseballdad]

If you haven't tried it, you can also have the players move back in the batters box a bit to get a bit more time to swing.

[Chris O'Leary]

Is the bat dragging behind caused by the hands lagging behind. It looks like the hands are way late in all those bat drag pics...

maybe a little of the much maligned cliches..."take your hands to the ball"...or..."knob to the ball"...is in order

Hands to the ball causes disconnection which more often than not leads to a lack of pop, not swinging strikes.

Bat drag is caused by multiple things, including poor posture which keeps you from getting your power from your core.

[Bolts-Baseball]

A hard-throwing 10-year old can be intimidating to kids who are accustomed to having coach's pitch to them. The intention of the coach pitching is to throw the ball over the plate so the kids can hit it. The intention of the hard-throwing 10-year old is to get the batters out... big difference.

We were very blessed to have the son of a former MLB All-Star (he also Coached a LL team that went to Williamsport) on our team, and he instilled quite a few great insights and thoughts into our practices and the way we did things overall that left a great impression...

The one thing he mentioned is that every good hitter could always handle the fastest fastball, and what he did with his own two sons was when either throwing BP or using the pitching machine, give many pitches at much higher speeds than he would ever see at his level so the speed factor would rarely if ever become an intimidation factor...

I have done that with my own son, he just turned 11, and he routinely hits in the 80-85 mph cage, and is very comfortable in there... It has translated onto the field as he is one of the kids that can step into the box and look comfortable against the hardest throwing pitchers we face...

-Good Luck.

[Mark H]

Usually it's bat drag and or hip slide. Bat drag he's covered and it's covered some more in the following link. Hip slide is the front hip joint continuing forward after the bat starts to swing. Both will kill quickness. Go through this link and give us some questions over what doesn't make sense to you. http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis;jsessionid=8fllcp2i01.lion_s

Learning what you need to know on this subject is not a short answer. After you dig through the above we can talk about where to go next.

[Mark H]

A hard-throwing 10-year old can be intimidating to kids who are accustomed to having coach's pitch to them. The intention of the coach pitching is to throw the ball over the plate so the kids can hit it. The intention of the hard-throwing 10-year old is to get the batters out... big difference.

We were very blessed to have the son of a former MLB All-Star (he also Coached a LL team that went to Williamsport) on our team, and he instilled quite a few great insights and thoughts into our practices and the way we did things overall that left a great impression...

The one thing he mentioned is that every good hitter could always handle the fastest fastball, and what he did with his own two sons was when either throwing BP or using the pitching machine, give many pitches at much higher speeds than he would ever see at his level so the speed factor would rarely if ever become an intimidation factor...

I have done that with my own son, he just turned 11, and he routinely hits in the 80-85 mph cage, and is very comfortable in there... It has translated onto the field as he is one of the kids that can step into the box and look comfortable against the hardest throwing pitchers we face...

-Good Luck.

Getting used to tracking velocity and being able to hit it is one thing. Being able to deal with that and the change ups and curves mixed in-that's when you find out who is quick from heel plant or decision to contact and who has just learned to time something fast with a 7 frame swing so you are exactly right when you are looking for quickness.

[TG Coach]

Do any of you have any advice or drills to develop bat speed or quicken up bats? My sons team (10U) team ran into a pretty hard throwing pitcher last night, most of the team had a hard time catching up, most of these boys have been playing coach pitch until now. They have been doing alot of work in practice but some just don't seem to get it. Just trying to find some other ideas to see if something else might click.
Thanks

There's no reason to overanalyze a situation that probably isn't the problem, like bat drag. You're not going to change bat speed overnight even if they all have picture perfect swings. It sounds like a case of a hard throwing kid who dominates games. You'll see it from 10U all the way through high school. Put the ball in play. Make the defense make plays. Bunt at them. Force them to throw the ball. Often these teams don't have to play much defense and screw up just enough in the field to lose if you just put the ball in play.

[LAball]

There have been other threads on whether to teach kids to bunt. I think its over looked in kids baseball. If the pitcher is overpowering, bunt. give the kids a chance to get on base, put the ball into play. Make the pitcher throw more. But practice time is limited and many coaches to not get round to bunting.

[Mark H]

There's no reason to overanalyze a situation that probably isn't the problem, like bat drag. You're not going to change bat speed overnight even if they all have picture perfect swings. It sounds like a case of a hard throwing kid who dominates games. You'll see it from 10U all the way through high school. Put the ball in play. Make the defense make plays. Bunt at them. Force them to throw the ball. Often these teams don't have to play much defense and screw up just enough in the field to lose if you just put the ball in play.


Short term that's good advice. Long term, they better learn a quick swing.

[Chris O'Leary]

Short term that's good advice. Long term, they better learn a quick swing.

I agree.

It's the equivalent of learning the curveball at 10YO.

It's a crutch that will work for a few years but will hurt them in the long run b/c it delays when they actually have to learn how to do things the right way.

[jima]

I agree.

It's the equivalent of learning the curveball at 10YO.

It's a crutch that will work for a few years but will hurt them in the long run b/c it delays when they actually have to learn how to do things the right way.

At this age its usually not hip slide or the infamous bat drag. I mean, I doubt that your whole team developed a mechanical problem overnight. Most of the time, its just not being ready to launch the swing. Most kids, when facing a faster pitcher, will try to "find" the ball before swing initiation...consequently, their weight shift will be late and their launch. It partly confidence and partly timing. In time they will adjust.

[Chris O'Leary]

At this age its usually not hip slide or the infamous bat drag. I mean, I doubt that your whole team developed a mechanical problem overnight. Most of the time, its just not being ready to launch the swing. Most kids, when facing a faster pitcher, will try to "find" the ball before swing initiation...consequently, their weight shift will be late and their launch. It partly confidence and partly timing. In time they will adjust.

Bat drag isn't a mechanical problem that develops overnight.

Rather, it gets ingrained over the course of several years during teeball, coach pitch, and/or machine pitch because it can work spectacularly well at those levels.

Generally, bat drag doesn't become an issue until 11 or 12YO, but I could see it being exposed if you go up against a biologically mature 10YO.

Bat drag also only sometimes works itself out.

[LAball]

, when facing a faster pitcher, [the batter] will try to "find" the ball before swing initiation...

Very good point, I gota put it in my note book.

It happened to my kid in U10. The pitcher was very fast and I knew that, so at the batting cages we practiced at that speed and a little faster. But in the game he as lost, completely. Your point may be the reason.

[jima]

Very good point, I gota put it in my note book.

It happened to my kid in U10. The pitcher was very fast and I knew that, so at the batting cages we practiced at that speed and a little faster. But in the game he as lost, completely. Your point may be the reason.

It happens on the small field and it happens again around 14 or 15 on the big field. At 13, its a hitter's game on the big field. Boys usually don't have great velocity and batters can wait and find the ball and then swing. One of the seminal moments for serious players is when they reach 15 and they face someone approaching 80mph. They don't have time to "find" the ball and still hit it. They need to learn to begin their load early and have the front foot down and be ready to hit in a smooth, connected way...yes, bat drag or hip slide can also be a problem, but unless you connect the load and step sequence to the speed of the pitcher the best mechanics will do you no good.

[TG Coach]

Short term that's good advice. Long term, they better learn a quick swing.

Given the nature of the post it appeared the poster was looking for some magic when facing fast pitchers. There isn't a short term fix except putting the ball in play anyway possible. Chances are half these 10U hitters will never develop a quick swing and will be out of baseball by 13U. It's the nature of 10U baseball.

[TG Coach]

Bat drag isn't a mechanical problem that develops overnight.

Rather, it gets ingrained over the course of several years during teeball, coach pitch, and/or machine pitch because it can work spectacularly well at those levels.

Generally, bat drag doesn't become an issue until 11 or 12YO, but I could see it being exposed if you go up against a biologically mature 10YO.

Bat drag also only sometimes works itself out.

Why are you pushing bat drag so hard? You haven't seen one of these kids hit. The poster did state the pitcher was fast. Are you suggesting most of the hitters who fanned against Randy Johnson in his prime developed bat drag when they faced him? No! The guy was just that fast. That's probably most of the issue here.

These are 10U players. Some have good swings for their age. Some don't. Also, there can be a plus/minus three year physical difference in ten year olds. The pitcher may be physically thirteen. Over time some of these 10U players some will physically mature, adjust and continue to play the game. Some are just ten year olds playing baseball who will not be baseball players in a few years. You're way overthinking this situation.

We had a kid in our LL who threw BB's when he was twelve. If I had a crystal ball on how to hit him I would have advised, "What until high school when he's an inch taller and you're a foot taller. You'll be clubbing him like a punching bag.

[ssarge]

"At this age its usually not hip slide or the infamous bat drag. I mean, I doubt that your whole team developed a mechanical problem overnight. Most of the time, its just not being ready to launch the swing."

irrespective of te details of the hitters on one 10U team, the fact is that there are NO 10U hitters in the world who have adequate swing quickness to get them through even HS play.

They will have to develop it.

Those who think "it just happens" are very optimistic.

Truthfuly, it DOES "just happen" for the very rare, exceptional, or lucky kid. And it isn't ALL a by-product of athletecism, though that is a factor.

For most, it CAN happen, but ONLY happens through optimized mechanics.

And 10 is about the perfect age to begin that process, IMO. And the more athletic the kid, the MORE inclined I would be to get him working on mechanics. Because the insiduous reality is that really athletic kids tend to wait too long to work on mechanics, becuase they can. Their athletecism allows them to excel against youth-group pitching. Once they start seeing guys who effortlessly change speeds, hit spots, and move the ball, athletecism isn't enough. if it was, Michael Jordan could have hit. But by the time this realization sets in, it is too late.

Best regards,

Scott

[Chris O'Leary]

Why are you pushing bat drag so hard?

I'm just playing the percentages.

I coach this age group and bat drag is a plague around here.

[bigredmachine#1]

Hands to the ball causes disconnection which more often than not leads to a lack of pop, not swinging strikes.

Bat drag is caused by multiple things, including poor posture which keeps you from getting your power from your core.

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

[Mark H]

Given the nature of the post it appeared the poster was looking for some magic when facing fast pitchers. There isn't a short term fix except putting the ball in play anyway possible. Chances are half these 10U hitters will never develop a quick swing and will be out of baseball by 13U. It's the nature of 10U baseball.


Agreed and your advice was very helpful in light of that. I tend to think about the kids who are in it for the long run.

[Mark H]

"At this age its usually not hip slide or the infamous bat drag. I mean, I doubt that your whole team developed a mechanical problem overnight. Most of the time, its just not being ready to launch the swing."

irrespective of te details of the hitters on one 10U team, the fact is that there are NO 10U hitters in the world who have adequate swing quickness to get them through even HS play.

They will have to develop it.

Those who think "it just happens" are very optimistic.

Truthfuly, it DOES "just happen" for the very rare, exceptional, or lucky kid. And it isn't ALL a by-product of athletecism, though that is a factor.

For most, it CAN happen, but ONLY happens through optimized mechanics.

And 10 is about the perfect age to begin that process, IMO. And the more athletic the kid, the MORE inclined I would be to get him working on mechanics. Because the insiduous reality is that really athletic kids tend to wait too long to work on mechanics, becuase they can. Their athletecism allows them to excel against youth-group pitching. Once they start seeing guys who effortlessly change speeds, hit spots, and move the ball, athletecism isn't enough. if it was, Michael Jordan could have hit. But by the time this realization sets in, it is too late.

Best regards,

Scott

With the kids in mind who are in it for the long run, I would say to the above, EXACTLY!

[Bryton]

Short term that's good advice. Long term, they better learn a quick swing.

Mark, can you explain how to have a "quick swing". Is it rotating the hips harder and faster? I would like to hear what people think the best way to speed up your bat is. Or how to quicken your swing.

I know people say not to throw your hands at the ball, and I don't teach that to my son as well. Him and I are working hard on the rotational swing and he is getting there. But he is also starting to see faster pitching, especially in fall ball as we are a 12U team moving up to 13U next year, and we are playing in a 14U fall ball league where these kids will be moving up to 15U and our boys are seeing faster pitching with some pretty good curve balls they have never seen before. Now my son is 5/10 so far and hitting the faster pitching pretty well, but still a little late at times, so that is why I am interested on what you think is the best way to "quicken your swing".

[fungo22]

Mark, can you explain how to have a "quick swing". Is it rotating the hips harder and faster? I would like to hear what people think the best way to speed up your bat is. Or how to quicken your swing.



I'd be interested in Mark's answer too.

What kind of quick swing do you want? A bunt is a relatively short, quick swing. The winning combination of course is a swing that is as quick as possible with as much bat speed as possible. How, you ask, is that done?

MLB hitters have learned "to swing a bat in the most bio-mechanically efficient way possible so as to accomplish three objectives: (1) optimal swing quickness, (2) efficient swing path and (3) maximum bat speed. Elite hitters at the highest levels of competition – both baseball and softball – have somehow learned to do these things when they swing a bat."*

How do they do it?
Quick hand drills.
Just kidding.
PCR(W) is an attempt to describe what they do.**



*Quote from Introducton Page of http://englishbeyhitting.com
**http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpo...&postcount=138 (See PCR Crammed into a Nutshell)

[jima]

I'd like to hear also. I don't think that "quick to the ball" always equates to batspeed.

[fungo22]

PCR(W) is an attempt to describe what they do.


And how they do it.

[Mark H]

Mark, can you explain how to have a "quick swing". Is it rotating the hips harder and faster? I would like to hear what people think the best way to speed up your bat is. Or how to quicken your swing.".

Well that's really the big question isn't it? And it's not a this or that faster kind of question. It's a systems problem with a systems answer and a lot of guys who pour their life into hitting instruction have their own recommended method for working on it. I would say understanding the goal is job one. IOW understanding a basic framework for how elite hitters swing the bat. Then the question becomes how to get there. After working through many, I suggest Englishbey's stuff but of course opinions vary. My recommendation though is dig off into Englishbey. Sites like this one have great value for many things but developing the understanding of an elite swing and how to get there needs to happen in a different setting than public town hall meeting.

I know people say not to throw your hands at the ball, and I don't teach that to my son as well.".

Well it depends on what someone means by "throw the hands" but I agree it's a cue fraught with opportunity for misunderstanding and is often or usually applied in a poor way. Englishbey tries to get past vague cues that could mean a lot of different things by differentiating between cues and reality.

Him and I are working hard on the rotational swing and he is getting there. ".

Speaking of terms and cues I know of at least four different definitions for rotational swing.

But he is also starting to see faster pitching, especially in fall ball as we are a 12U team moving up to 13U next year, and we are playing in a 14U fall ball league where these kids will be moving up to 15U and our boys are seeing faster pitching with some pretty good curve balls they have never seen before. Now my son is 5/10 so far and hitting the faster pitching pretty well, but still a little late at times, so that is why I am interested on what you think is the best way to "quicken your swing".

Well everyone's a little late at times. Is there a clip of a recent game swing we could see? Maybe he's fine as is since he's hitting the better pitching pretty well.

[Bryton]

Well, I don't have any game clips right now, but he does have a double header tomorrow, actually today now, and I will try to remember my camera to try and get some video of him.