Loss of velocity

[pastime00]

can folks give me their reasons why a kid will have a sudden drop in velocity. I submit my boy has good lower body mechanics..so I'm looking at the upper body/arms.

My main thought is that playing SS, he's gotten to short arming the ball, but I can't really tell. When pitching it's like he's 'pushing' a little. He's around the zone, but he's 8 MPH ,minimum, slower. Just turned 10. 50-51mph to 44mph. He's just not fluid and it seems to have come on suddenly.

Any suggestion on fixing what I think is wrong? Drills? Secondly, what else should I look for?

Thanks

[korp]

Hes 10..... could be short arming it but that takes a lot of reps to get in the habit of. Could be physically tired because if mechanics look solid conditioning is a major factor. Since hes 10 make sure mechanics are good and see what a rest does.

[Quiz]

The best scenario is if the throw comes natural without thinking about it. If he tries to remember what to do while throwing, it cannot work. Try walking like that and you will stumble.

[Chris O'Leary]

can folks give me their reasons why a kid will have a sudden drop in velocity. I submit my boy has good lower body mechanics..so I'm looking at the upper body/arms.

My main thought is that playing SS, he's gotten to short arming the ball, but I can't really tell. When pitching it's like he's 'pushing' a little. He's around the zone, but he's 8 MPH ,minimum, slower. Just turned 10. 50-51mph to 44mph. He's just not fluid and it seems to have come on suddenly.

Any suggestion on fixing what I think is wrong? Drills? Secondly, what else should I look for?

He could either be fatigued or could be developing shoulder problems.

How many months of the year does he play?

[pastime00]

How many months of the year does he play?

I guess he plays year round...Little League from end of March till first of June. 20 games or so. Usually nothing rest of June till end of July (6-7 weeks off) then it's 2 practices every other week and at least one tournament a month.

I'm just looking for possible mechanical causes. If none seem to be the reason, then he'll take a few months off. I think he's mentally tired, but he says he isn't and usually is hussling...but he's not hitting nor pitching well. He's gone from the #1 pitcher to #3 or 4. And he's gone from batting in top 4 spots to holding down one of the final 4 spots. His mental concentration may be exhausted...but he's not ready to NOT be on the travel team.

Having said that, he's not pitching much. 2 innings a tournament once a month, and four 5-minute bull pens a month? Probably a total of 6 inning pitched since one inning pitched June 12.

Offer some things to look for mechanically and I'll entertain your view point about year 'round ball...

I'm checking stride length next. I've checked for short arm, but that doesn't seem to be the main issue as only occasionly does that appear.

Would a growth spurt mess everything up? He's gained 8 pounds or so since July (no fat).

[Chris O'Leary]

I guess he plays year round...Little League from end of March till first of June. 20 games or so. Usually nothing rest of June till end of July (6-7 weeks off) then it's 2 practices every other week and at least one tournament a month.

This could be part of the problem.


Offer some things to look for mechanically and I'll entertain your view point about year 'round ball...

The thing is that there is no really good mechanical explanation for such a major drop in a kid this age.


Would a growth spurt mess everything up? He's gained 8 pounds or so since July (no fat).

Yes.

It will soften up the growth plates and make him more vulnerable to injury. He could be in pain/discomfort without telling you. His body could also be reining him in b/c it knows he's vulnerable at the moment.

If he were my son, I would shut him down for the rest of the year.

[scorekeeper]

… I'm checking stride length next. I've checked for short arm, but that doesn't seem to be the main issue as only occasionly does that appear. …


Chris,

Since the SI article on Lincecum, I’ve noticed a “spike” in the number of folks who are “interested” in stride length.;) But that aside, assuming there’s been some significant difference in the lad’s stride length that could account for a significant velocity drop, what’s better?

A) pastime00 kept meticulous records on the boy and knows precisely what his stride length was and compares it to what it is now;

B) There’s some kind of magic formula such as Stride = Height + X%, to compare the stride length to?

I have to admit that I’ve never been a big fan of SET rules like “B”, but I see no problem in using them as a general guideline.

[pastime00]

Chris,

Since the SI article on Lincecum, I’ve noticed a “spike” in the number of folks who are “interested” in stride length.;) But that aside, assuming there’s been some significant difference in the lad’s stride length that could account for a significant velocity drop, what’s better?

B) There’s some kind of magic formula such as Stride = Height + X%, to compare the stride length to?



I read, before the SI article, that stride length of 80-100%. Since the SI, I've seen things up to 120%...I'm just looking for at least 100%...but I don't like to drill him in 'off season' so I don't push it too much. DId some stuff with him to work full reach back and some glove tuck. Will work next week with him on stride length.

[Chris O'Leary]

I read, before the SI article, that stride length of 80-100%. Since the SI, I've seen things up to 120%...I'm just looking for at least 100%...but I don't like to drill him in 'off season' so I don't push it too much. DId some stuff with him to work full reach back and some glove tuck. Will work next week with him on stride length.

ASMI recommends a stride length of less than 100%., namely 77% to 87% of a pitcher's height.

What makes Lincecum special is his hip/shoulder separation, not his stride length.

[APPpitch]

What Tim and his father understand is that pitching is a full body effort. Putting the largest muscles on stretch like large rubber bands, and releasing them at just the right time creates a whip. It is a kinetic chain of events. Ask less of your legs and hips and you will ask your arm to do more. Ask more of your legs and hips, and your arm will do more without the asking.

Staying sideways longer than most, at just the right speed, with the back leg driving the body, enables the energy to travel from the back leg to the front leg, (put the brakes on by bracing that front leg a moment after landing on it flexed) stiffen, whip, release. You are enabling the top half to fly over the bottom half.

Simply put: Flex, bounce, explode, brace, whip.

Those are my words. It works for my son and other's I boil it down to.

-scott

[Chris O'Leary]

Ask less of your legs and hips and you will ask your arm to do more. Ask more of your legs and hips, and your arm will do more without the asking.

You're ignoring the core.

[APPpitch]

Never ignore the core.

-s

[Deemax]

Just turned 10

Its middle of september, and he's still pitching and playing short... give him some time off. Next spring he will have some pep in his step again.

[scorekeeper]

ASMI recommends a stride length of less than 100%., namely 77% to 87% of a pitcher's height. …

Are they saying that from the standpoint of arm injury or pitcher EFFECTIVENESS?

I think its great to have numbers that CAN be measured! Do you know if that spread is intended to mean on every pitch or just say a FB? And is the stride measured from the front of the rubber to where the heel is when the stride foot 1st touches the dirt, or is it to where it finishes?

The reason I’m asking is, if someone was gonna measure a stride, it would be nice fort hem to have something concrete that would be universally understood.

[scorekeeper]

I read, before the SI article, that stride length of 80-100%. Since the SI, I've seen things up to 120%...I'm just looking for at least 100%...but I don't like to drill him in 'off season' so I don't push it too much. DId some stuff with him to work full reach back and some glove tuck. Will work next week with him on stride length.

Are you looking at the stride length from the perspective of arm injury or effectiveness?

Would you describe in detail what you mean by full reach back and some glove tuck?

Perhaps I’m wrong, but it sure seems like you’re working on too many things at the same time for my tastes, especially since he’s not actively pitching.

[Chris O'Leary]

Are they saying that from the standpoint of arm injury or pitcher EFFECTIVENESS?

Yes.

The issue is that taking too long of a stride can lock up the hips and make you less efficient, more arm-y, and raise the injury risk.

Yes, some ML pitchers take strides longer than 100% of height, but as ASMI's data shows, good ones generally don't.

Lincecum is very much an exception.


I think its great to have numbers that CAN be measured! Do you know if that spread is intended to mean on every pitch or just say a FB?

Pretty much every pitch or you'll tip your pitches.


And is the stride measured from the front of the rubber to where the heel is when the stride foot 1st touches the dirt, or is it to where it finishes?

I think it's heel (front edge of rubber) to heel.

[Chris O'Leary]

I read, before the SI article, that stride length of 80-100%. Since the SI, I've seen things up to 120%...I'm just looking for at least 100%...but I don't like to drill him in 'off season' so I don't push it too much. DId some stuff with him to work full reach back and some glove tuck. Will work next week with him on stride length.

Overstriding can hurt things and not help them by locking up the hips.

[scorekeeper]

The issue is that taking too long of a stride can lock up the hips and make you less efficient, more arm-y, and raise the injury risk.

Yes, some ML pitchers take strides longer than 100% of height, but as ASMI's data shows, good ones generally don't.

Lincecum is very much an exception.

This same general topic was recently raised on another site. One of the posters made the following post.

… That being said many have identified Lincecum's mechanics as impeccable. Lincecum is fast and long to home plate with a stride length exceeding 100% of his heighth. Lincecum also posesses incredible flexiblity as well. Clearly Lincecum gets the most out of his small frame.

I had no trouble understanding the post, but I made it clear that making statements like that without the caveat although that’s true for Lincecum, that doesn’t mean its true for all pitchers.

Whether or not a 100% or better stride length is “good” or “bad” isn’t the issue to me. Its that people need to understand that there are a lot of folks out there who see such statements, associate them to a “little” guy having fantastic success, and equate the two. When that happens and people start concentrating on the stride rather than the motion as a whole and how it relates to a specific pitcher, MPO is that more bad things are gonna happen than good.

BTW, do you have any idea about Pedro’s stride length when he was in his prime? I’m just looking for something to compare.

Pretty much every pitch or you'll tip your pitches.

To me, that answer has the implication that for optimum results, different pitches might produce different stride lengths. Of course that’s within a specific pitcher’s style, not necessarily true for all pitchers.

If that’s even partially true, it’s something of a tradeoff in that a P might be better off tipping his pitches just a hair, rather than not executing a given pitch the best he can.

Sorry, but that brings up another question. ;)

Although I can see how someone with high speed video equipment could detect different pitches by stride length alone, but I’m not quite getting how a hitter can do that. Maybe its been too long since I tried to hit a baseball in competition, but as I remember it, once the P went into his motion, I was totally focused on picking up the ball ASAP, not looking for such things as stride length. :baseball:

[ragweed]

ASMI also says to take off 3 months a year at least. I think the statistic is that young pitchers are 56 times (not %, times) more likely to have arm issues if they play year round.

I would give him the 3 months.

Going round and round about stride length is not what he needs.

razor