Stan Musial's Swing

[Chris O'Leary]

Stan Musial is one of the greatest hitters, but his swing is hardly ever discussed on sites like this. I recently came across some video of him (sorry, but I don't know the context of the swing), and I was wondering what people see in his swing.

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_001.gif

Some of the things that I see include...

1. Walking away from his hands during his stride and weight shift.

2. Pretty standard connection at the point of contact (rather than the extension at the POC you see with some older guys). This may be related to the fact that Musial was a power hitter.

3. A Hank Aaron style back foot way up in the air at the Point Of Contact (POC).

4. A slightly lunge-y swing (rather than staying back), or at least a more upright torso at the POC, which is related to what the back foot does.

5. He starts out with his hands low but they rise to shoulder level just before he triggers his swing.

6. Standard stiffening of the front leg, and extension of the front knee, through the POC.

Here are the individual frames from the planting for his front heel to the POC (which I think is Frame 35).

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/ImageSequences/StanMusial_C_001/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_001_30.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/ImageSequences/StanMusial_C_001/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_001_31.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/ImageSequences/StanMusial_C_001/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_001_32.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/ImageSequences/StanMusial_C_001/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_001_33.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/ImageSequences/StanMusial_C_001/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_001_34.jpg

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/ImageSequences/StanMusial_C_001/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_001_35.jpg

[baseballdad]

As he shifts forward it appears that he really bends his front knee prior to contact with alot of vertical movement down (frames 30-34), then when he stiffens his leg it causes that really noticable rising motion at contact.

Definitely a little lungy. To think I just worked like heck to break my son of that habit! ;)

[Hargrave]

A swing a little different from today's.

Musial's father was a Polish immigrant who worked in coal mines and steel mills and thought baseball was a waste of time.

[Quiz]

To think I just worked like heck to break my son of that habit! ;)

Kinda funny, so your son will not hit like Stan for sure after all ;)

[hellborn]

It seems like a lot of the old timers started off with very low hands...Ruth, Hornsby, Foxx, Greenberg, Williams (DiMaggio was a prominent one who very clearly did not). Some also used enormous hitches to get their hands up to a launch position...I would swear that Hornsby had his hands below his belt in the one video clip I've seen of him (and can't find now). Musial seemed to have brought his up fairly smoothly, but I'd say that even Williams had a small hitch.
Is hitching really a bad thing that the old timers got away with it, or is it a great timing/loading aid that will be rediscovered some day?
:cap:

[Chris O'Leary]

Is hitching really a bad thing that the old timers got away with it, or is it a great timing/loading aid that will be rediscovered some day?

IMO a vertical hitch isn't a problem as long as it's completed by the time the front heel plants, which is the case for Musial.

A hitch is a problem only when the hands are still moving up after the front heel plants and the shoulders start rotating (because it can lengthen the swing).

[hellborn]

Thanks for your thoughts, Chris.

I think that young Frank Thomas tended to bring his back foot way up, like Aaron and Musial. Seemed like he did it less as he got older, maybe because his legs and feet were bothering him so much. I seem to remember Juan Gone doing something similar, but my memories of him aren't as clear (saw a lot more of Thomas when I lived in Chicago). I'm pretty sure that I've seen Hornsby do something similar, maybe even Foxx.

[Jake Patterson]

That's Fenway

[Chris O'Leary]

Here's an isolation on Stan's lower body...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_PushBlockPush_001.gif

I know some quibble with the term, but I think that Push Block Push is a reasonable description of what I see in this clip.

[hiddengem]

Here's an isolation on Stan's lower body...

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Hitting/Videos/Video_Hitting_StanMusial_C_PushBlockPush_001.gif

I know some quibble with the term, but I think that Push Block Push is a reasonable description of what I see in this clip.

Most definetly. Its my opinion after speaking with Steve at great length, that one of the main differences between him and others like Yeager is the lower half. Right or Wrong.

Its my belief that swing is ground up, he and I assume Nyman, belive that it starts in the pelvic region and goes out from there. Steve didn't always used to think this way, but over the course of 10yrs or so, he has read different things and tried different things that have made him come to this conclusion..fine, decide for yourself.

I believe that a controlled fall or push into footplant, and then a firm or rigid block by the front leg followed by a last second extension or push of the lead leg finishes off the firing of the backside through the ball. When you land on your front leg there should not be much give to that leg after it hits, but the extension after that is just as important.

From my experience in trying different things in the cage and on the field, if I were to land on my front leg and try and tense it or lock it into the position it was when I landed and not push it back or extend it, the hip fire into the ball isn't nearly as good and when I did..power when down ect.

Good extension of the front leg also stops the momentum built up from the fall or push and transfers that momentum up the swing and eventually into the bat head. We both agree that the swing has accelerating and decleration points that creat a "bull whip" type of action into the bat head, this is one part.

I also believe that the actions a catcher would take to come out of his crouch and make a throw to second are very similar to the actions a hitter makes to throw the bat head. Albeit a little more controlled.

Lastly..if you'll notice in this clip..his back foot comes off the ground and goes behind him(toward the dugout). Why is he doing this? He's doing this because it controlles the direction of this rear hip. Its prventing him from spinning off the ball. You can find countless numbers of clips where hitters of today slide there foot behind them. You don't see to many come that high off the ground any more..but the slide is still there..its controlling the direction of energy.

Just my opinon.

[Deemax]

I wonder if Stans style would have been left alone (from instructors) today.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/50533291.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=4996399091E83186F19A95AC0ADC9AF387347052288BB462

IMO no. It would have been changed the second he entered high school ball.
....unfortunatly

[CoachB25]

...Steve didn't always used to think this way, but over the course of 10yrs or so, he has read different things and tried different things that have made him come to this conclusion..fine, decide for yourself.

I believe that a controlled fall or push into footplant, and then a firm or rigid block by the front leg followed by a last second extension or push of the lead leg finishes off the firing of the backside through the ball. When you land on your front leg there should not be much give to that leg after it hits, but the extension after that is just as important.

Just to clarify, Steve has several videos on his website demonstrating breakdowns of drills etc. One such drill is entitled, "Dynamic Tall and Fall." In other words, how to fall, as suggested above, but control that "fall" as a part of hip load/action while engaging in the swing.