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Kentucky Bomber
09-10-2008, 02:22 PM
If you think giving naming rights to any old company is bad enough, here's what the Giants and Jets are contemplating for their new Meadowlands park: a German insurance company with intimate ties to the Nazi regime, in fact the insurer of Auschwitz and Dachau personnel, among other wonderful deeds. That's going to go over big time.

Naming Rights and Historical Wrongs
By RICHARD SANDOMIR
The Giants and the Jets face moral and public-relations questions as they negotiate the possible sale of the naming rights to their new stadium with Allianz, a Munich-based insurer and financial services company with disturbing connections to Nazi Germany.

Allianz insured facilities and personnel at concentration camps like Auschwitz and Dachau. Kurt Schmitt, its chief executive in the 1930s, served as Hitler’s second economics minister and can be seen in a photograph from a rally wearing an SS-Oberführer’s uniform and delivering the Nazi salute with Hitler standing in front of him.

Like other insurers in Germany at the time, Allianz followed anti-Semitic policies by terminating or refusing to pay off the life insurance policies of Jews, and sent cash that was due beneficiaries and survivors to the Nazis.

It also became the insurer of Jewish valuables taken by the Nazis.

Gerald Feldman was a historian asked by Allianz in 1997 to produce an unfettered history of its role in Hitler’s Germany. He wrote in “Allianz and the German Insurance Business, 1933-1945” about when the company extended its group accident insurance for engineers working for the notorious I.G. Farben chemical company at Auschwitz.

“It was just one more piece of business in the Third Reich,” he wrote in his book, which was published in 2001, “but it demonstrated that such pieces on any large scale made contact at some point with all that is represented by the name ‘Auschwitz’ — from slave labor to extermination — virtually inescapable.”

A deal with Allianz would not be easy to sell publicly, like Citigroup’s with the Mets. The possibility of an Allianz Stadium will make some people cringe, especially in a market that is home to many Jewish people, and in which the Tisch family, which owns half of the Giants, has supported many Jewish causes.

“There must be sensitivity to the psychological impact this would have,” said Elan Steinberg, a vice president of the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and Their Descendants. “Survivors are still alive. It would not be appropriate to affix the Allianz name to a stadium name in an area where a lot of survivors still living.”

A serious burden will be on the Giants and the Jets to persuade fans and others of the propriety of naming a stadium for Allianz, even if its terrible era is more than 60 years past. The teams have hired a crisis management firm to vet all naming rights candidates, but it is certain that most of its time has been spent on Allianz.



Even the best arguments in Allianz’s favor are imperfect. The teams can say that Allianz has done much to atone for its role before and during the war, but no amount of apologies or restitution to victims and survivors can make full amends for its past.

The teams can say Allianz participated in two major efforts that began in the 1990s to compensate slave and forced laborers as well as insurance policy holders — but only after pressure from the American government, state insurance regulators and Jewish groups, and class-action suits filed in federal court.

The teams refused to speak about Allianz, which has United States subsidiaries like Fireman’s Fund Insurance and Oppenheimer Capital, because a deal is not done. And Allianz refused to discuss the naming-rights negotiations.

But Peter Lefkin, a senior vice president of Allianz of America, said, “Over the years, Allianz has done everything possible to redress all the wrongs perpetuated by the Third Reich.”

Stuart Eizenstat, who was President Clinton’s special representative on Holocaust-era issues, said that Allianz cooperated on compensation, but only after it demanded legal protection from being sued, which he felt was appropriate.

“Allianz paid all its claims under I.C.H.E.I.C.,” he said, referring to the International Commission on Holocaust Era Insurance Claims, which has distributed more than $300 million to 48,000 claimants. “It paid its dues, participated in a good-faith process, and has continued to pay claims even after I.C.H.E.I.C. closed it doors last year.”

Critics insist that Allianz and other companies have not paid nearly enough under a very flawed process. Sidney Zabludoff, an economist who specializes in restitution finances, said Allianz acted “reasonably,” but operated under “German rules” that kept its payments at a lower rate than those paid by insurers in other European countries.

In all, he said, Allianz has paid claimants about $12 million through International Commission on Holocaust Era Insurance Claims.

The Jets and the Giants will now determine if Allianz will be able to use their stadium to extend its global brand to the United States by paying them $20 million or $30 million a year.



Michael J. Bazyler, a professor at the Chapman University School of Law and the author of “Holocaust Justice,” said accepting the concept of Allianz Stadium might be as individual a choice as buying a German car, which he would not.

“If it was Allianz Stadium, would I not go to the game?” Bazyler said, the son of Holocaust survivors. “I’d feel uncomfortable. But when people think of a German company that cooperated with the Nazis, Allianz doesn’t pop up.”

davidthecornman
09-10-2008, 02:45 PM
The Giants and the Jets are going nazi ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lafferty Daniel
09-10-2008, 03:02 PM
Teams should never name their stadiums after the following:

1. Financial Institution

2. Telecommunications Company

3. Foreign Company

If they must go corporate, they should choose a name that fits the team, city, or state. I'm getting tired of stadiums named after souless companies only because they wrote the biggest check. This may please teams in the short term, but long term these types of names are more likely to change, which can damage the stadiums' "brand." (see the ballpark in San Francisco)

placount
09-10-2008, 03:15 PM
This is such bull. If we are going to hold the entirety of all that is German to criminal standards because of something that happened eight generations ago then a huge percentage of our own company should be tossed beneath the bus. German is the largest ancestry-group in this country. My post here isn't so much a response to this post, but rather an ongoing annoyance I have with slamming modern Germans for what happened years ago. Should we hold all Japanese guilty for raping nanking? All Sudanese for Darfur? Perhaps everyone from anywhere within Yugoslavia for any of the handful of ethnic cleansings there in the last twenty five years? Us Americans for for any of the supposed atrocities we have committed?

YankeeFanBx
09-10-2008, 03:16 PM
I'm sure the Jets and Giants can find someone else willing to pay them to name the stadium.
This is a horrible choice.:banghead:

aqib
09-10-2008, 03:22 PM
Every German company that existed at the time of the 3rd Reich cooperated with the Nazis. I think the Jets and Giants should make sure Allianz fires everyone who participated in those crimes. Of wait that was over 60 years ago and so they are probably all gone. Nevermind...

Kentucky Bomber
09-10-2008, 03:29 PM
This is such bull. If we are going to hold the entirety of all that is German to criminal standards because of something that happened eight generations ago then a huge percentage of our own company should be tossed beneath the bus. German is the largest ancestry-group in this country. My post here isn't so much a response to this post, but rather an ongoing annoyance I have with slamming modern Germans for what happened years ago. Should we hold all Japanese guilty for raping nanking? All Sudanese for Darfur? Perhaps everyone from anywhere within Yugoslavia for any of the handful of ethnic cleansings there in the last twenty five years? Us Americans for for any of the supposed atrocities we have committed?

They who will not learn from history will repeat it. Or, as George Bernard Shaw observed, "We learn from history that nobody learns anything from history".

I would be perfectly happy with an Iraqi team not naming their Stadium after Haliburton. Or an American team for that matter.

Wall-E
09-10-2008, 03:48 PM
Because this thread will get deleted if not related to baseball, here is a picture of a giant baseball:

http://www.fybaseball.com/Rawlings_baseball.jpg

J.R.
09-10-2008, 03:52 PM
This place is being Admin'd and Mod'd to death.

YankeeFanBx
09-10-2008, 03:54 PM
History means little to those who think it has no effect on them.:shhh:

six4three
09-11-2008, 10:35 AM
This is such bull. If we are going to hold the entirety of all that is German to criminal standards because of something that happened eight generations ago then a huge percentage of our own company should be tossed beneath the bus.

Apparently you didn't read the article - this has nothing to do with the company simply being German, but for actively collaborating with the Nazis.

Nobody is suggesting that being German is itself a bad thing, only that working hand in iron glove with the Nazis is.

PeteU
09-11-2008, 10:40 AM
Teams should never name their stadiums after the following:

1. Financial Institution

2. Telecommunications Company

3. Foreign Company

If they must go corporate, they should choose a name that fits the team, city, or state. I'm getting tired of stadiums named after souless companies only because they wrote the biggest check. This may please teams in the short term, but long term these types of names are more likely to change, which can damage the stadiums' "brand." (see the ballpark in San Francisco)

Not to mention insurance companies, especially health insurance companies. Nothing says "wise investment of premium money" like the purchasing of naming rights on a stadium. With the current state of the health insurance industry and healthcare in this country being as sorry and sad as possible, the thought of any health insurer who puts money into buying naming rights while denying patient's health claims at the same time just boggles my mind.

Ralf
09-11-2008, 11:09 AM
Give me a break. I guarantee half the people that are complaining either have a BMW or Mercedes, or would love one.

jimmyjimjimz
09-11-2008, 11:42 AM
I REALLY think HESS should buy the naming rights. Cause for the past 50 something years, they played in a stadium with a name that had something to do with the Giants. Now, they should play in a stadium with a name that has something to do with the Jets. And everything in the stadium should be green, so no one thinks of us as the ******* stepkids anymore. Even the floors should be painted green. Green urinals, green toilets, green walls, cheerleaders wearing green, there should be no blue ANYWHERE in that stadium except for when the Giants are home, and the only blue that should be there is the BLUE tarp over the GREEN walls, and the blue Giants jerseys.

Lafferty Daniel
09-11-2008, 11:55 AM
Not to mention insurance companies, especially health insurance companies. Nothing says "wise investment of premium money" like the purchasing of naming rights on a stadium. With the current state of the health insurance industry and healthcare in this country being as sorry and sad as possible, the thought of any health insurer who puts money into buying naming rights while denying patient's health claims at the same time just boggles my mind.

I agree that health insurance is risky for naming rights. That said, I'd like the Twins to consider working with Minnesota based Travelers Insurance for naming rights. 'Travelers Park' sounds natural, and it works with the transportation theme going on at the Rapid Park site. Plus, Travelers has been around forever so I don't foresee a name change unless they get merged with another company.

CoreyNYC
09-11-2008, 12:40 PM
I REALLY think HESS should buy the naming rights. Cause for the past 50 something years, they played in a stadium with a name that had something to do with the Giants. Now, they should play in a stadium with a name that has something to do with the Jets. And everything in the stadium should be green, so no one thinks of us as the ******* stepkids anymore. Even the floors should be painted green. Green urinals, green toilets, green walls, cheerleaders wearing green, there should be no blue ANYWHERE in that stadium except for when the Giants are home, and the only blue that should be there is the BLUE tarp over the GREEN walls, and the blue Giants jerseys.

The Hess family sold to Woody Johnson (of Johnson & Johnson) several years ago

GordonGecko
09-11-2008, 12:57 PM
Because this thread will get deleted if not related to baseball, here is a picture of a giant baseball:

:highfive: ROFL!!!!!!

:rofl: :laugh :hyper: :rofl: :laugh :hyper: :rofl: :laugh :hyper:

GordonGecko
09-11-2008, 01:05 PM
The greatest coup in the history of naming rights will of course have to go to the New York Yankees in 2009. They're apparently close to signing a $20M+ per year sponsorship agreement with Bank of America that will give them prominent placement throughout the stadium.

Like I said before, only the Yankees can get away with selling the naming rights without giving away any naming rights. Truly Amazing

Saltzy23
09-11-2008, 01:13 PM
Give me a break. I guarantee half the people that are complaining either have a BMW or Mercedes, or would love one.
Dammit!...you beat me to this. I was hoping no one else said this. And as a Jew that lives 15 miles from the place I think I my voice matters...

You forgot VW...Such a cute little company, and that bug is just adorable isnt it?!?. It was just as sweet when Hitler was crusing around in one back in freaking WWII when they had a deal with the Nazi's...

If companies are gonna start taking the national history of OTHER companies before doing business with them then my friends, this country is in pretty big trouble going forward as well, cause we arent exactly the most popular group in the world right now...

Gary Dunaier
09-11-2008, 02:08 PM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Wall-E:
Because this thread will get deleted if not related to baseball, here is a picture of a giant baseball:

http://www.fybaseball.com/Rawlings_baseball.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/2847912780_46b912394c.jpg?v=0
(Photo taken September 10, 2008. © Gary Dunaier. Link to upload on Flickr.com: here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/14504460@N02/2847912780/in/set-72157607222648740/))

:eek:

Saltzy23
09-11-2008, 02:11 PM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Wall-E:
Because this thread will get deleted if not related to baseball, here is a picture of a giant baseball:

http://www.fybaseball.com/Rawlings_baseball.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/2847912780_46b912394c.jpg?v=0
(Photo taken September 10, 2008. © Gary Dunaier. Link to upload on Flickr.com: here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/14504460@N02/2847912780/in/set-72157607222648740/))

:eek:
How could you not love that face?...

Love Mr Met...the thing gets a smile out of me every time...

Yankees12
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
And should we not buy Volkswagens because the company was founded by the Nazis? How about Fords - Henry Ford was a noted anti-semite and was given honors by the Nazi regime?

This is asinine. It was 60 years ago - the people running the company then are not the same people running the company now. Just as Ford and Volkswagen no longer are Nazi companies, Allianz in the modern day has nothing to do with the holocaust.

Saltzy23
09-11-2008, 02:52 PM
And should we not buy Volkswagens because the company was founded by the Nazis? How about Fords - Henry Ford was a noted anti-semite and was given honors by the Nazi regime?

This is asinine. It was 60 years ago - the people running the company then are not the same people running the company now. Just as Ford and Volkswagen no longer are Nazi companies, Allianz in the modern day has nothing to do with the holocaust.
No...Im saying 'who cares'....you cant hold companies personally responsible for dumb DUMB decisons their leaders made 60 years ago during arguably the worst time period in the last 500 years of the world....

Were on the same side here. Reread my post...maybe I wasnt clear...

Yankees12
09-11-2008, 02:55 PM
No...Im saying 'who cares'....you cant hold companies personally responsible for dumb DUMB decisons their leaders made 60 years ago during arguably the worst time period in the last 500 years of the world....

Were on the same side here. Reread my post...maybe I wasnt clear...

I wasn't referring to your post, or any post specifically, just the topic in general. I completely agree with your post.

YankeeFanBx
09-11-2008, 03:10 PM
I think we all understand that the business of America is business, and we will deal with every and almost anyone.
Never realized Mr. Met is adorable!!!! :)

GordonGecko
09-11-2008, 03:21 PM
I think we all understand that the business of America is business, and we will deal with every and almost anyone.
Never realized Mr. Met is adorable!!!! :)

Remember this guy?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/100258276_470c433a20.jpg?v=0

jimmyjimjimz
09-11-2008, 05:53 PM
The Hess family sold to Woody Johnson (of Johnson & Johnson) several years ago

I know. I just think selling naming rights to HESS would be a good tribute to Mr. Hess.

BeatEmBucs
09-11-2008, 06:06 PM
Teams should never name their stadiums after the following:

1. Financial Institution....

If they must go corporate, they should choose a name that fits the team, city, or state.

What if the financial institution was born in that city? That's why I think PNC Park works out so well. PNC is the name they created when Pittsburgh National and Provident National of Philadelphia merged in the 1980's, and while they've taken over other banks, they seem like they'll stay PNC for a long time. And PNC Park kinda just rolls off the tongue. I'd have a lot of difficulty adjusting to a new name if god forbid PNC gets gobbled up.

Lafferty Daniel
09-11-2008, 06:20 PM
What if the financial institution was born in that city? That's why I think PNC Park works out so well. PNC is the name they created when Pittsburgh National and Provident National of Philadelphia merged in the 1980's, and while they've taken over other banks, they seem like they'll stay PNC for a long time. And PNC Park kinda just rolls off the tongue. I'd have a lot of difficulty adjusting to a new name if god forbid PNC gets gobbled up.

It's true, PNC does sound pretty good, as does Citi Field. What I worry about is that financial institutions often merge, and therefore change names. Would you really be surprised if Bank of America or Wells Fargo buys out PNC in the near future?

wvkeeper
09-11-2008, 06:46 PM
Wonder if Bank of America (based in Charlotte, NC) has any ties to the history of any banks around that held transactions from the sale of African-Americans?

Dodgeboy
09-11-2008, 06:47 PM
Remember this guy?

http://www.walkoffwalk.com/pics/youppi.jpg

His "rights" were purchased by the Montréal Canadiens! He's a hockey player now.

Actually, he was introduced as the Hab's mascot at the same ceremony that they put up the banner with the Expo's retired numbers. Very classy of 'em, and I've heard Youppi! still gets the love.

BeatEmBucs
09-11-2008, 08:22 PM
It's true, PNC does sound pretty good, as does Citi Field. What I worry about is that financial institutions often merge, and therefore change names. Would you really be surprised if Bank of America or Wells Fargo buys out PNC in the near future?

I would be....just because I would've thought they'd have tried to by now. Seriously I doubt Wells Fargo would try, they seem to be ensconsed in the west, and don't have too many banks east of the Mississippi. Bank of America, maybe, but they're hard to find in this area. Here PNC's primary competition comes from National City and Citizens (who have their name on the other PA Major League ballpark) and PNC is such a Pittsburgh institution it would be just as shocking as when the mills closed if PNC was ever taken over.

efin98
09-11-2008, 08:37 PM
Wonder if Bank of America (based in Charlotte, NC) has any ties to the history of any banks around that held transactions from the sale of African-Americans?

No connections, all but their FleetBoston Financial purchase are chartered well after that era...

TinoM24
09-12-2008, 12:59 PM
reports are in that they cancelled talks with Allianz over the Nazi thing. any Giants or Jets exec who drives a Mercedes or a VW will now be deemed a hypocrit.

six4three
09-12-2008, 01:40 PM
reports are in that they cancelled talks with Allianz over the Nazi thing. any Giants or Jets exec who drives a Mercedes or a VW will now be deemed a hypocrit.

Doubtful.

If they use an IBM, maybe. :D

YankeeFanBx
09-12-2008, 02:01 PM
Remember this guy?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/100258276_470c433a20.jpg?v=0
Nowhere is he as adorable as Mr Met.
I do remember him from the Expos, happy to see the Habs took him off waivers and gave him a new home.