CKL All Decade Team (1960s)

[leecemark]

Player of the Decade: Willie Mays
Pitcher of the Decade: Sandy Koufax

First Team
C: Bill Freehan
1B: Willie McCovey
2B: Dick McAuliffe
3B: Harmon Killebrew
SS: Maury Wills
LF: Frank Robinson
CF: Willie Mays
RF: Hank Aaron
SP: Sandy Koufax
SP: Jim Bunning
SP: Juan Marichal
SP: Camilio Pascaul
RP: Don McMahan


Second Team
C: Elston Howard
1B: Norm Cash
2B: Pete Rose
3B: Ron Santo
SS: Jim Fregosi
LF: Carl Yastrzemski
CF: Mickey Mantle
RF: Tony Oliva
SP: Dean Chance
SP: Gary Peters
SP: Fergie Jenkins
SP: Joe Horlen
RP: Stu Miller


Third Team
C: Joe Torre
1B: Jim Gentile
2B: Junior Gilliam
3B: Dick Allen
SS: Rico Petrocelli
LF: Billy Williams
CF: Jimmy Wynn
RF: Roberto Clemente
SP: Luis Tiant
SP: Bob Gibson
SP: Sam McDowell
SP: Don Drysdale
RP: Hoyt Wilhelm

40th man: Orlando Cepeda

[J W]

Thanks Mark!

This decade concluded in similar fashion to MLB, except that some names were changed:

HOME RUN RECORD BROKEN

Instead of Roger Maris, the single-season HR record was broken in 1961 by Jim Gentile, who belted 77 of them over the Tiger Stadium wall. Incidentally, Roger Maris played the role of Mickey Mantle (76 HR).

SHOOTING FOR JOE DIMAGGIO

In 1963, Carl Yastrzemski of the JW Skipjacks completed a 46-game hitting streak, second longest is baseball history behind Joe DiMaggio's 56 game streak set 22 years earler. In real life, it would not be until 1978 that DiMaggio's streak became threatened (Pete Rose, 44 games).

SHOOTING FOR TED WILLIAMS

In 1966, Matty Alou of the PAP Redbirds came very close to hitting .400, finishing with a .392 average. Nobody in MLB through the 60s came close to this mark (.361 by Norm Cash in 1961). Rico Cary hit .366 for MLB in 1970; does he have a shot at .400?

TRIPLE CROWNS

We had two Batting Triple Crowns in MLB in the 1960s: Frank Robinson in 1966, and Carl Yastrzemski in 1967. For the DMCKL, this distinction was handed to Orlando Cepeda in 1963 (again for the PAP Redbirds).

We had three pitching Triple Crowns in MLB, all by Sandy Koufax (1963, 1965, 1966). Only once did a DMCKL pitcher achieve that mark: Luis Tiant in 1968 for the Legends. Koufax came close several times but couldn't nail down all three stats.

PERFECT GAMES

On June 22, 1965, Knights pitcher Sonny Siebert tossed nine perfect innings against the PAP Redbirds (this team is showing up a lot isn't it?)... the final score, 6-0. It was the first perfect game since Don Larsen's historic World Series performance in 1956. Do you know who caught this game Mark?

Catfish Hunter pitched a perfect game in real life in 1968.

I'll fill this in as we go along...

[J W]

Comparing MLB to DMCKL through the 1961-1969, we see there were way less no-hitters accomplished (31 to 7)... no surprise considering we use modern-day reliever usages:

MLB

(1961) Warren Spahn
(1962) Sandy Koufax, Bo Belinsky, Earl Wilson, Bill Monbouquette, Jack Kralick
(1963) Sandy Koufax, Don Nottebart, Juan Marichal
(1964) Ken Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Jim Bunning
(1965) Jim Maloney, Sandy Koufax, Dave Morehead
(1966) Sonny Siebert
(1967) Steve Barber / Stu Miller, Don Wilson, Dean Chance, Joe Horlen
(1968) Tom Phoebus, Catfish Hunter *, George Culver, Gaylord Perry, Ray Washburn
(1969) Bill Stoneman, Jim Maloney, Don Wilson, Jim Palmer, Ken Holtzman, Bob Moose

DMCKL

(1961) Ted Bowsfield - Legends
(1963) Larry Jackson - Gamblers
(1965) Sonny Siebert - Knights *
(1965) Juan Marichal - Pirates
(1966) Sonny Siebert - Knights
(1967) Pete Richert - Skipjacks
(1968) Bill Hands - Legends
(1969) TBD

* Denotes Perfect Game

[leecemark]

--These are all the players meeting the criteria above, plus a few other noteables. If you think a reasonable candidate has been overlooked just point them out and I'll add them to the ballot once the position threads go up. Pitcher will be in a separate post, which I also get up today.

C: Joe Torre, Elston Howard, Tom Haller, Bill Freehan, Johnny Roseboro and.....Clay Dalrymple??? (#5 in games caught!)
1B: Willie McCovey, Jim Gentile, Orlando Cepeda, Norm Cash, Bill White, Norm Seiburn. Mickey Mantle made 2 All Star teams at 1B, but 3 in CF and played significantly more there. Harmon Killebrew made 3 of his 5 All Star appearances at 3B (1 each at 1B and LF) and played more there than here.
2B: Joe Morgan (didn't technically qualify, but better than most who did), Pete Rose, Dick McAuliffe, Junior Gilliam, Julian Javier, Jerry Lumpe Bill Mazeroski, Tony Taylor and Bobby Richardson.
SS; Maury Wills, Bert Campaneris, Luis Aparicio, Jim Fregosi, Zolio Versalles, Ron Hansen and Rico Petrocelli.
3B: Harmon Killebrew, Dick Allen, Eddie Mthews, Ken Boyer, Ron Santo, and Brooks Robinson.
CF; Willie Mays, Curt Flood, Vada PInson, Jim Wynn, Al Kaline, Micky Mantle, and Matty Alou.
LF: Carl Yastrzemski, Frank Robinson, Billy Williams, Lou Brock, Tom Tresh and Leon Wagner. Both Robinson and Williams split time this decade fairly evenly between LF and RF. Robinson more in LF and having a better shot at the first team there. Williams slightly more in RF, but having his best shot in LF.
RF: Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Tony Oliva, Johnny Callison, Rusty Staub, Bob Allison and Frank Howard.

[J W]

BATTING SCORES: 1961-1969

The scores noted use the same formula as Bill James' MLB Gray Ink forumula with the exception that OBP has replaced games played garnering one point. Scores are for leading/top ten in the entire league. A total of 157 batters qualified with at least one Gray Ink point.

Black Ink
A total of 45 players earned at least one Black Ink point. Players are ordered by Gray Ink score second:

26 - Aaron H
25 - Mays W
25 - Killebrew H
18 - Cepeda O
13 - Gentile J
13 - Alou M
13 - Morgan J
11 - Mantle M
11 - Yastrzemski C
9 - Brock L

8 - Pinson V
8 - Wynn J
8 - Wills M
8 - Callison J
7 - McCovey W
7 - Clemente R
6 - Robinson F
6 - Oliva T
5 - Williams B
5 - Rose P

4 - Cash N
4 - Wagner L
4 - Alou F
4 - Davis W
4 - Aparicio L
4 - Jackson R
4 - Carty R
3 - Allison B
3 - Davis T
3 - Fregosi J

2 - Mathews E
2 - Campaneris B
2 - Kaline A
2 - Siebern N
2 - Versalles Z
2 - Bressoud E
2 - Johnson D
1 - Santo R
1 - Flood C
1 - McAuliffe D

1 - Altman G
1 - Green L
1 - Tresh T
1 - Hisle L
1 - Amaro R


Gray Ink
Players scoring 10 or more Gray Ink points are listed. There are 67 total.

152 - Aaron H
138 - Mays W
109 - Robinson F
92 - McCovey W
86 - Mantle M
84 - Killebrew H
83 - Allen R
80 - Williams B
78 - Oliva T
76 - Yastrzemski C

65 - Cash N
53 - Pinson V
51 - Cepeda O
51 - Wynn J
49 - Allison B
46 - Clemente R
46 - Wills M
40 - Santo R
38 - Callison J
37 - Mathews E

36 - Brock L
36 - Torre J
35 - Wagner L
34 - Gentile J
33 - Alou M
33 - Stargell W
29 - Howard F
29 - Rose P
28 - Davis T
27 - Maris R

27 - Morgan J
24 - Flood C
23 - Boyer K
21 - Campaneris B
21 - Colavito R
19 - Alou F
19 - Fregosi J
19 - Powell B
18 - Fairly R
17 - Davis W

17 - Kaline A
17 - McAuliffe D
17 - Perez T
16 - Aparicio L
16 - Hart JR
16 - Howser D
16 - Jackson R
16 - Robinson B
15 - Altman G
15 - Siebern N

15 - White B
14 - Green L
14 - Horton W
14 - Versalles Z
13 - Carty R
13 - Groat D
13 - Staub R
12 - Northrup J
12 - Tovar C
12 - Tresh T

11 - Hall J
11 - Petrocelli R
11 - Smith R
11 - Ward P
10 - Freehan B
10 - Jones C
10 - Stuart D

[jaybird_1981]

Since I wasn't involved in this decade I will abstain from voting.

[leecemark]

--That is fine if you don't want to. You definately are welcome to participate though. It would be a great way to get caught up on the history of the league.

[leecemark]

SP: Jim Kaat, Juan Pizzaro, Sandy Koufax, Fergie Jenkins, Camilio Pascaul, Gary Peters, Jim Bunning, Bob Gibson, Bob Friend, Juan Marichal, Done Drysdale, Dean Chance, Joe Horlen, Luis Tiant, Denny McLain, Phil Neikro, Jim O'Toole, Earl Wilson, Milt Pappas, Mike Cuellar, Tom Seaver, Larry Deirker, Larry Jackson, Chris Short, Dick Ellsworth, Claude Osteen
RP: Ron Perranoski, Hoyt Wilhelm, Don McMahon, Eddie Fisher, Lindy McDaniel, Stu Miller, Ron Kline, Jack Baldshun, Frank Linzy, Barny Schultz, Ted Abernathy, Dick Hall

[leecemark]

--I put the ballots for catcher and firstbase up last night. I'll do 2 a day to allow at least some time for discussion. Each will run two weeks - or until every owner votes whichever comes first. That will be about a three week total from this thread going up to the last positions closing for the project.

[jterry619]

I can't jump in on this guys..out of town on Saturday and my wife has major surgery on Monday and will be in the hospital for 3-4 days...nothing life threatening...reconstructive related to breast cancer two years ago...she is cancer free and healthy but 7!!! hours of surgery...thanks!

[leecemark]

--Best wishes to you and the wife Joe. Take care of her and don't worry about missing anything here. Things will be moving slowly the next few weeks anyway.

[Erik Bedard]

As I'm putting together my ballot for the All-Decade teams, I can't help but notice the drawback of the mercenary strategy: there are no players who spent the majority of the decade as a Gold Sox. And only one up for consideration whose career as a Gold Sox was the most important part of his career (Johnny Callison).

[jaybird_1981]

--That is fine if you don't want to. You definately are welcome to participate though. It would be a great way to get caught up on the history of the league.

Ok I will vote I will wait until I get more owners opinions though to base mine off of those. Thanks

Jason

[leecemark]

--As the CKl picks its all Decade Team, the Knights have also announced their franchise All Decade squad;
C: Tim McCarver (1963-68)
1B: Jim Gentile (1961-65)
2B: Junior Gilliam (1961-65)
3B: Eddie Mathews (1961-63)
SS: Dick McAuliffe (1961-69)
LF: Lee Maye (1961-68)
CF: Willie Mays (1961-69) - Player of the Decade
RF: Billy Williams (1965-69)
SP: Camilio Pascaul (1961-63, 65-68) - Pitcher of the Decade
SP: Gary Peters (1963-68)
SP: Juan Marichal (1966-69)
SP: Sonny Seibert (1964-69)
RP: Barney Schultz (1961-65)
--Most of these guys are career Knights or close to it. Gilliam, McAuliffe, Mays, Seibert and Schultz have never played for anybody else (Leo Cardenas has also been a Knight from 61-69, but didn't make the team). Gentile got a few AB's for the Skipjacks in 1966 before retiring and returning to the Knights as a coach. Pacaul started and finished with the Knights, but did help the Gold Sox to make the playoffs in a one season sabbatical:cap:. Peters, McCarver and Maye all would have been career Knights if not for expansion. Those 3 departed in last year's draft.

[Erik Bedard]

Ooh, I think I'll do that too:

C: Johnny Bench ('68-'69)
1B: Deron Johnson ('64-'66)
2B: Glenn Beckert ('67-'68)
3B: Brooks Robinson ('64-'65)
SS: Zoilo Versalles ('64-'65)
OF: Johnny Callison ('64-'65)
OF: Jim Northrup ('68-'69)
OF: Felipe Alou ('67-'69)

SP: Jim Perry ('66-'69)
SP: John Buzhardt ('64-'65)
SP: Jose Santiago ('64-'68)
RP: Jack Baldschun ('64-'65)
RP: Roy Face ('64-'69)

Yeah... not a lot of continuity on the north side of the Windy City. I believe Face, Ken Sanders, and Steve Blass are the only ones remaining from the expansion team. And the latter two have just one full season apiece.

[leecemark]

--Blass and Sanders are both free agents this year too (and Face is done). Complete turnover in 6 years, unless you can re-sign one or both the FA's (both worth the effort). Of course, you don't expect an expansion squad to be the foundation of a dynasty:).

[catcher24]

I can't jump in on this guys..out of town on Saturday and my wife has major surgery on Monday and will be in the hospital for 3-4 days...nothing life threatening...reconstructive related to breast cancer two years ago...she is cancer free and healthy but 7!!! hours of surgery...thanks!

Joe, best of luck to your wife - and to you, of course. That is a long time to be in the operating room. I will keep you both in my prayers. God bless.

[catcher24]

I like the Knights and Gold Sox all decade teams and may post one myself - not sure at this point.

JW, how will you be determining black ink and grey ink scores? Using James' formula and plugging in the numbers? A lot of work there, my friend!

Mark, I may have a couple of additions to suggest when I get time to really sit down and look at some of my players' numbers.

[catcher24]

On June 22, 1965, Knights pitcher Sonny Siebert tossed nine perfect innings against the PAP Redbirds (this team is showing up a lot isn't it?)... the final score, 6-0. It was the first perfect game since Don Larsen's historic World Series performance in 1956. Do you know who caught this game Mark?


Don Pavletich caught the only perfect game in CKL history.

Also, the only no hitter in 1969 belonged to Bill Singer who no hit AC Appletonia for the Diablos on 9-25-69. I thought I had uploaded the updated no hitter page, but maybe not. I'll check.

[leecemark]

--The threads for all position players are up now. I'll get the pitchers up tomorrow or the next day.

[-Kyle-]

Can I consider the Boston Gamblers the same as the LA Gamblers? Because I think I have only 3 years to work with.

[leecemark]

--I'd encourage you to consider it all one franchise. The more history we can develop in the league the stronger our foundation.

[-Kyle-]

I don't remember that much from earlier Gamblers, so if people could help me out that would be great. I am uncertain how much time they spent with the Gamblers or other teams. .

C: Elston Howard (61-?)
1B: Moose Skorown (61-66) or Mickey Mantle 65-67?
2B: Cookie Rojas (62-68)
3B: Harmon Killebrew (61-69)
SS: Rico Petrocelli (63-69)
LF: Rico Carty (63-69)
CF: Curt Flooyd (61-68)
RF: Wes Covington (61-66)

SP1: Jim Kaat (61-69)
SP2: Gaylord Perry (63-68)
SP3: Mel Stottlemyre (64-69)
SP4: Mike Cuellar (61-66)
SP5: Larry Jackson (63-67)

RP: Moe Drawbosky
RP: Ken Tatum

That's all I got, please help me edit it though to make it right.

[-Kyle-]

OF: Johnny Callison ('64-'65)
OF: Jim Northrup ('68-'69)
OF: Felipe Alou ('67-'69)

No Tony Conigliaro? He played from 64-66 for you right?

[Erik Bedard]

Right, but Northrup was better in his two years. If I had a ninth player, it would be Conigliaro.

[catcher24]

Through the magic of the encyclopedia lifetime batting and pitching registers.
Note that my changes/additions are in bold.
C: Elston Howard (61-64)
1B: Moose Skorown (61-65) or Mickey Mantle 65-67 (and first two weeks of 68 - appeared in 15 games for the Gamblers that year)
2B: Cookie Rojas (64-67)
3B: Harmon Killebrew (61-69)
SS: Rico Petrocelli (65-69)
LF: Rico Carty (64-69)
CF: Curt Flooyd (61-67)
RF: Wes Covington (65-66)

SP1: Jim Kaat (61-69)
SP2: Gaylord Perry (64-67)
SP3: Mel Stottlemyre (64-69)
SP4: Mike Cuellar (66)
SP5: Larry Jackson (61-67) Also played about half of 1968 with the Gamblers.

RP: Moe Drawbosky (63-68 Started 68 with Gamblers then traded to Gold Sox)
RP: Ken Tatum (69)

[catcher24]

Some of these were pretty easy since they've been with me from the start. The rest are those who have performed the best at that position.
C: Bill Freehan - Has played every game of his career as a Legend.
1B: Willie McCovey - Ditto Edges out Ron Santo for Player of the Decade
2B: Joe Morgan
3B: Ron Santo - Same as Freehan and McCovey
SS: Gene Alley - I haven't had too many good shortstops. He only played two years for the Legends but is still the best we've had.
LF: Rusty Staub - Not truly a left fielder, but one of the three best OFers I've had.
CF: Rick Monday - Edges out Reggie Smith. Not as many PAs but much better production.
RF: Hank Aaron - Only was with me in 68 & 69, but had two huge seasons and led the team to it's two championships.

SP: Fergie Jenkins - Pitcher of the Decade
SP: Luis Tiant - Had two great seasons, including a pitcher's triple crown
SP: Tom Seaver
SP: Bill Monbouquette
RP: Bob Locker
RP: Ted Abernathy - Also a Legend since the beginning

[-Kyle-]

Thanks a bunch Lew, I will probably take Mike Cuellar off the list then.

C: Elston Howard (61-64)
1B: Moose Skorown (61-65) or Mickey Mantle 65-67
2B: Cookie Rojas (64-67)
3B: Harmon Killebrew (61-69)
SS: Rico Petrocelli (65-69)
LF: Rico Carty (64-69)
CF: Curt Flooyd (61-67)
RF: Wes Covington (65-66)

SP1: Jim Kaat (61-69)
SP2: Gaylord Perry (64-67)
SP3: Mel Stottlemyre (64-69)
SP4: Larry Jackson (61-68)

RP: Moe Drawbosky (63-68)
RP: Ken Tatum (69)

[leecemark]

--Half way through the voting and about half the owners weighing in. Please share your opinion before the polls close. Thanks.

[J W]

Sorry for the delay guys...

Batting Ink scores are up on the first page. Yes Lew, they were done with James in mind. It took a while.

Anyways, here are the top scores for those too lazy to check back:

Black Ink

26 - Aaron H
25 - Mays W
25 - Killebrew H
18 - Cepeda O
13 - Gentile J
13 - Alou M
13 - Morgan J
11 - Mantle M
11 - Yastrzemski C
9 - Brock L

Gray Ink

152 - Aaron H
138 - Mays W
109 - Robinson F
92 - McCovey W
86 - Mantle M
84 - Killebrew H
83 - Allen R
80 - Williams B
78 - Oliva T
76 - Yastrzemski C

[leecemark]

JW, you may want to put up an Ink thread so your work isn't lost. Especially if you intend to update as we move forward.

[leecemark]

--The first two polls - catcher and firstbase - close on the 19th. They will be closing two a day after that. If you haven't voted and wish to participate please get to them ASAP.

[catcher24]

Great work on those ink scores, JW.:applaud: Now when are the pitcher's totals going to be done?:laugh:hp

I knew Aaron could push Mays for Player of the Decade, and looking at these scores is certainly a good argument for him. I was a bit surprised at how high McCovey finished in grey ink, since he had two really bad seasons during the decade, but then I guess quite a few of these guys didn't play the entire decade.

Thanks again JW for your efforts in providing that info.

[leecemark]

--We'll have to vote on Player of the Decade once we've chosen the team. I think Willie takes it based on higher peak and positional value, but Hank has slipped past him in counting stats the last couple years as age has started to take its toll on the Say Hey Kid. They are definately one and two though.

[J W]

Yup, it'll come down to those two. Frank Robinson would probably be #3 although McCovey is there. Killer had the bat but not the glove.

Thanks Lew! On that topic, I would like to add any cycles hit and any unassisted triple plays to Page 1. Do you have that info?

[catcher24]

Yup, it'll come down to those two. Frank Robinson would probably be #3 although McCovey is there. Killer had the bat but not the glove.

Thanks Lew! On that topic, I would like to add any cycles hit and any unassisted triple plays to Page 1. Do you have that info?

Unfortunately no I don't. I could go back and recreate it for most of our seasons, but not all. It would just take a while. There wouldn't be any way to recreate it for the first couple of seasons due to the box score method Mark was using. Nothing that's his fault, though. I just found a program later in the project (after I bought my copy of Diamond Mind) that could draw data out of the box scores, but they had to be a different style than Mark had been using. He changed over as soon as I asked him too, but there's no way to get the same info out of those earlier seasons.

BTW, are you talking about Page 1 of your team page or Page 1 of the league page? If I do go back and recreate that info, I would probably pull it out for everyone and list it on a web site page.

[catcher24]

In regards to Player of the Decade, I think I'll probably lean Aaron's way. No offense to Willie - heck, he was my favorite player growing up during the sixties, so it would almost pain me to do that. But Aaron has the numbers, was very productive all decade long, did win one MVP Award, and was an offensive force for the Legends my two championship years. Willie was simply awesome the first five years, but Hank has been top notch the entire decade.

[J W]

One thing the Ink scores don't measure of course is defensive value, and the EX/EX defense Willie Mays displayed in CF (and proved by the numbers) for the majority of the decade probably puts his Win Shares per 162 ahead of anyone else. But I'm not going to touch WS or WARP for an entire decade of baseball. :nosleep: :coffee

[leecemark]

--The polls for all the position players are closed. There was very little difference of opinion on the first team. 1B Wilie McCovey, 3B Harmon Killebrew and all three outfielders - Frank Robinson, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron - were unanimous first team choices. 2B Dick McAuliffe and SS Maury Wills made the first team on all but one ballot apiece and each was 2nd on that ballot. Catcher was the only close vote, with Bill freehan edging out Elston Howard and Joe Torre. The first, second and third teams have all been edited into post 1 of this thread.
--The pitching ballots will be open until tomorrow night. We only have 5 ballots cast for pitchers so far - although that has been eough for some clear teirs for first, second and third team to emerge.
--The winners from the positional polls will form the nominees for Palyer of the Decade. That vote will be up shortly.

[leecemark]

--The last man has been added to our all decade team. Complete results are editted into post #1 of this thread.

[J W]

That is a pretty darn good team, especially the first team. I suspect the 1970s team won't stack up to it but we'll see won't we! It should have a better starting rotation but then, tell that to the likes of Bob Gibson and Whitey Ford.