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View Full Version : Can Mike Mussina Punch his ticket with 4 more wins?

RubeBaker
08-24-2008, 01:05 AM
Here is the original article at ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3550167

Basically, the author states that with 4 more wins, that will give Moose his first 20 win season in his career, which would guarantee his place in the Hall. Why? Well his first argument is that Rob Neyer says so. Then he blabs about a couple of different reasons, and even at one point states:

Both Ian Kinsler (before his injury) and Brian Roberts rank among the most productive offensive players in the American League this season.

As far as I know, Kinsler had plenty of MVP talk and with a 124 OPS+, there are probably at least a dozen guys more productive than Roberts.

Anyway, does a 20 win season for Moose push him over that edge? Personally, I still think the overall body of work is more significant than any single season accomplishments. Heck, Maris had the HR record and he wasn't in, and if we reward players for having a 20 win season, Jon Lieber would be in.

Bottom line is that a 20 win season may help his cause, but I doubt it's going to be the deal breaker.
Los Bravos
08-24-2008, 01:08 AM
It will knock one more inane argument against him off of the table, so it can't hurt.
Fuzzy Bear
08-24-2008, 07:16 AM
It will knock one more inane argument against him off of the table, so it can't hurt.

It will stop the talk of how he's not a HOFer because he's never won 20.

Mussina's revival this season has ensured that he'll make it to 280 wins. Mussina could be in the position of Bert Blyleven, but probably not; his W-L percentage will be much, much better. I think that he will DEFINITELY go into the HOF, whether he wins 20 or not, at this point; the question is whether or not he'll go in on the first ballot.
Paul Wendt
08-24-2008, 08:38 AM
I agree with LB and FB: it can't hurt but :rolleyes:
There may be close to 100 pitchers in the Hall of Fame by the time his BBWAA eligibility ends and he will be close to #20 in wins. All of the counts against all of the pitchers between Blyleven and Clemens will be points in his favor.
jjpm74
08-24-2008, 10:26 AM
If he wins 20 this year, that'd be one of the freshest memories of Mussina in the eyes of the BBWAA which would have an impact on overall voting. It also puts him in a solid position for a CY Young Award which is the other thing he doesn't have that his nay sayers use as a knock against him. :rolleyes:
Honus Wagner Rules
08-24-2008, 10:30 AM
If he wins 20 this year, that'd be one of the freshest memories of Mussina in the eyes of the BBWAA which would have an impact on overall voting. It also puts him in a solid position for a CY Young Award which is the other thing he doesn't have that his nay sayers use as a knock against him. :rolleyes:

Though I think Mussina will get plenty of votes, Cliff Lee will win the '08 Cy Young Award. Mussina will probably finish second or third in the voting.
jjpm74
08-24-2008, 11:10 AM
Looking at Mussina's record and the Yankees remaining schedule, it looks like Mussina only has 5 more starts this year. That only gives him an outside shot at 20 wins this year, IMO.
BlueBlood
08-24-2008, 11:18 AM
Looking at Mussina's record and the Yankees remaining schedule, it looks like Mussina only has 5 more starts this year. That only gives him an outside shot at 20 wins this year, IMO.

Without looking, two of those starts are probably against Boston & Tampa Bay. Good luck winning those.
Cougar
08-24-2008, 11:38 AM
Looking at Mussina's record and the Yankees remaining schedule, it looks like Mussina only has 5 more starts this year. That only gives him an outside shot at 20 wins this year, IMO.

That doesn't sound right...there's almost 6 weeks left in the season, and Mussina is going to pitch every fifth day. He should be good for 6, maybe 7 more starts.
jjpm74
08-24-2008, 11:50 AM
double post
jjpm74
08-24-2008, 11:51 AM
That doesn't sound right...there's almost 6 weeks left in the season, and Mussina is going to pitch every fifth day. He should be good for 6, maybe 7 more starts.

There are 33 games left in the season. At best, he has 6 more starts and 3 of those are going to be against Boston and Tampa Bay.
Paul Wendt
08-24-2008, 12:48 PM
Looking at Mussina's record and the Yankees remaining schedule, it looks like Mussina only has 5 more starts this year. That only gives him an outside shot at 20 wins this year, IMO.
If there are no cancellations he will pitch every sixth day even when an off-day falls against him, right?
Aug 28, Sep 3 9 15 21 27 (Saturday @Boston)
None of those dates is now "off" so he will get 6 in 36 days from his Friday start by working every sixth day.

For one concrete example, the games scheduled for those six sixth days are
v Boston, @ Tampa, @ Angels, v Chicago, v Baltimore, @ Boston
--not your everyday piece of cake, chopped liver, choose your cliche
--not for Mussina, not for the Yankees
BlueBlood
08-24-2008, 01:04 PM
Boston TWICE and the Angels? No way.
Cougar
08-24-2008, 01:07 PM
If there are no cancellations he will pitch every sixth day even when an off-day falls against him, right?
Aug 28, Sep 3 9 15 21 27 (Saturday @Boston)
None of those dates is now "off" so he will get 6 in 36 days from his Friday start by working every sixth day.

For one concrete example, the games scheduled for those six sixth days are
v Boston, @ Tampa, @ Angels, v Chicago, v Baltimore, @ Boston
--not your everyday piece of cake, chopped liver, choose your cliche
--not for Mussina, not for the Yankees

The only team in that bunch that's not currently playoff bound is Baltimore, but the Orioles have historically had Moose's number (since he's been in NY, of course).

If New York falls decisively out of the race, they may start trying to figure out ways to get Mussina extra shots at 20 wins. For example, I can imagine him starting the last game of the season on short rest (3 or 4 days) if he's at 19 wins at that point.

We'll see, I guess.
BlueBlood
08-24-2008, 03:05 PM
Lucky for Mussina, his last start would come against Boston. Since it's the big rival of NYY, they won't be sitting their key players that weekend, in an attempt to knock the Red Sox out of the Wild Card hunt.
Brad Harris
08-24-2008, 07:56 PM
It will knock one more inane argument against him off of the table, so it can't hurt.

Bingo. If anything, it's going to take away the rallying cry of some of the more ridiculous opponents of his case. And the more hollow their vitriol, the less opposition he'll receive from open-minded undecideds.
KCGHOST
08-25-2008, 09:03 AM
Winning 20 once didn't help Blyleven any.
Brad Harris
08-25-2008, 10:18 AM
Winning 20 once didn't help Blyleven any.
No, but thank God we don't have to hear those idiots quip that Blyleven "never had a 20-win season."
G.Costanza
08-27-2008, 08:39 AM
I'm curious that if he wins 20 has there ever been a hall of fame pitcher on more 100 win teams that only had one?
Bravesfan1984
08-27-2008, 10:53 AM
It will make his case look better but he still needs 300.
Mike90
08-27-2008, 11:09 AM
I'm curious that if he wins 20 has there ever been a hall of fame pitcher on more 100 win teams that only had one?

Never thought of that. Interesting. Don Sutton and Jim Bunning are the only two pitchers in the Hall with only one 20-win season. Sutton pitched for one 100-win team (and a lot of teams that won more than 90), and Bunning pitched for one 100-win team. Blyleven never pitched for a 100-win team.

Here are Mussina's three 100-win teams (all Yankees) plus Mussina's individual win-loss records and ERAs:

(2002) 103-58...18-10, 4.05
(2003) 101-61...17-8, 3.40
(2004) 101-61...12-9, 4.59